Everyone talking about 401Ks going in the toilet...

[El Pinko]

...remember when they used to have these things called "pensions"?


I guess those were too "commie"?




If things keep going the way they are, we'll have been better off with the proverbial gold watch...

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. the problem is they are PART of a pension

and many PENSIONS also use money mamagers

[El Pinko]

2. But it used to be that you got a set pension regardless what the market did.

People didn't have to have ulcers when the market crashes (which it periodically does).

My dad worked for the government, so he had a proper pension, thank goodness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. In essensce I agree with you, but that won't happen for at lesat

a year... and that has to be a legal change

People need to start pounding the usual suspects...

[Warpy]

3. Right, and pensions have tried to compensate

for being periodically raided by CEOs who used them as a piggy bank by investing in high risk, high yield "products" from our friends the hedge funds. Pensions are institutional investors along with banks, brokerages, insurance companies and governments and they are getting hammered just as hard. Many will be bankrupt.

Social Security will be all a lot of us still have. It's a damned good thing that even the Potemkin town meetings in 2005 gave Stupid a cold shoulder when he tried to sell his privatization scam.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I know just sugested to delegation that hedge funds

and derivativws be made Ilegal... of course I did hint they need to nationalize the industry, like oh the UK just did 12 hours ago

[depakid]

6. Not to mention that pension funds are a pretty good slice of state budgets

Yet another one of those connections that the burn, baby burn crowd fails to think about.

[TZ]

7. IIRC...some companies actually went bankrupt

because of their nice but expensive pension plans....

[lovuian]

8. this is also why Social Security should NEVER be with

wallstreet

[sarcasmo]

16. Exactly.

[Horse with no Name]

17. Actually truth be told

THIS is exactly why they wanted it there.
To use the SS fund to stop the hemorrhaging at least until the elections.
This is an intended consequence of their actions.
They just wanted to be able to use that money to cover it up a little longer.

[stray cat]

9. Pensions from employers will be lost as well - most often in stocks and employers are in trouble

[Selatius]

10. There was a switch from "defined benefits" to what is now known as "defined contributions"

What the latter means is you put X amount of money into typically a 401K on a regular basis. Whatever is left in your 401K at the end of the day is, as they say, "not defined." So if you end up in Great Depression 2, you're fucked.

The old-style "defined benefits" pensions are still pretty common in the PUBLIC sector. If you land a government job, say with the TVA, and you put in 30 years of your labor, you got it good.

[slackmaster]

12. Some employees of the City of San Diego may get screwed on their pension deal

The city committed to pension deals that it does not have the financial basis to fulfill. We face some combination of government reneging on its promises, and higher fees and taxes for the privilege of living here.

[slackmaster]

11. Pensions have at times gone down the tubes too

I guess those were too "commie"?

There is nothing Commie about a defined-benefit plan; they have just become unwieldy in a world where long-term relationships between employers and employees are no longer the norm. The only reason a defined-benefit plan seems safer than a 401k is that they are large funds that have professional managers who supposedly know what they are doing. 401k plans all have safe investment options, but most individuals are woefully unprepared to manage them. At least most of us stand to collect Social Security, so even if your 401k turns into a disaster you are probably not going to be left completely broke.

A few stable corporations still have traditional pensions. Many government workers have very sweet retirement deals, but even they can get the rug pulled out from under them as cities and counties face their own financial problems.

[gatorboy]

13. Do people pay into pension plans as well?

Never had a pension plan (Well, we refer to our company plan as "Profit Sharing"), so I'm not sure if they work the same way as a 401k.

[Greyhound]

14. Where do you think all that money to inflate the stock market came from?

Since pre-Raygun pensions were highly regulated with a guaranteed return, the officers were very restricted in where they could invest the funds and were also very limited in the fees they could charge.

Opening them up to the executives began the folly we are reaping today. We've created a few billionaires at the expense of our nation.

[sarcasmo]

15. My wife thinks we are going to get a pension, as I watch the market free fall

I feel the pension may be terminated.

[On the Road]

18. I Agree with the Sentiment

The replacement of annuities with lump sums was a huge scam.

My own pension was replaced with a lump sum arrangement that is worth about half what it was. There is an annuity option, but it includes no cost of living increases, so eventually it be almost worthless.

Changing the arrangement in mid-course, when an employee is too old to start over, should IMO be illegal.