Not so dear Freepers, before you decide who won the debate

[malaise]

it may suit you to understand the meaning of the term.
Debate (American English) or debating (British English) is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than logical argument, which only examine the consistency from axiom, and factual argument, which only examine what is or isn't the case. Though logical consistency, factual accuracy as well as some emotional appeal to audience are important elements of the art of persuasion, in debating, one side often prevails over the other side by presenting superior "context" and/or framework of the issue.

In formal debating contest, there are rules enabling people to discuss and decide on differences, within a framework defining how they will interact. Informal debate is a common occurrence, but the quality and depth of a debate improves with knowledge and skill of its participants as debaters. The outcome of a debate may be decided by audience vote, by judges, or by some combination of the two. Formal debates between candidates for elected office, such as the leaders debates and the U.S. presidential election debates, are common in democracies.- Wikipedia

You agree to rules
You answer questions
You present facts

Palin's preplanned sales pitch, or as Tweety described it, the Spelling Bee approach, was an abysmal failure. It is sad that you people are prepared to celebrate this crap because she didn't deliver a Katie Couric interview.

[Historic NY]

1. Sarah fails Debate Camp

If you tell the moderator your not going to give her the answers to her questions, then why even showup.Pailn kept referring to her note cards and reading off talking points which in many case didn't provide the answer to the question asked. I've seen high schooler's do a better job w.o debate 101 camp that McCain held for her.

[malaise]

2. Put simply

You can't win a debate if you come with packaged answers that are not connected to the questions.

[JTFrog]

3. Joe called her on the deregulation dodge and then she did it again.

BIDEN: The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes. Number two, using the standard that the governor uses, John McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes. It's a bogus standard it but if you notice, Gwen, the governor did not answer the question about deregulation, did not answer the question of defending John McCain about not going along with the deregulation, letting Wall Street run wild. He did support deregulation almost across the board. That's why we got into so much trouble.

IFILL: Would you like to have an opportunity to answer that before we move on?

PALIN: I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also. As mayor, every year I was in office I did reduce taxes. I eliminated personal property taxes and eliminated small business inventory taxes and as governor we suspended our state fuel tax. We did all of those things knowing that that is how our economy would be heated up. Now, as for John McCain's adherence to rules and regulations and pushing for even harder and tougher regulations, that is another thing that he is known for though. Look at the tobacco industry. Look at campaign finance reform.

[malaise]

4. As usual Sarah the

vacuous self absorbed moron, forgot that her task last night was to separate McPOW from Bush. She was more interested in self-promotion. This woman is sick.

[zbdent]

5. as just stated by a caller on the Bill Press show, Sarah Palin didn't follow the rules ...

so how could we expect that she would follow the rules in office?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. Who won the debate is defined solely by who people think won the debate.

Palin and Biden weren't competing for points or for abstract "victory", they were competing to attract voters.

Whether or not Palin was "doing it wrong" is irrelevant - the winner will be, by definition, the person who goes up in the polls.

[Kindigger]

7. Sales pitch

What did she remind ME of? Cruise by a home shopping channel, and listen to one of those women babble on non-stop about an object for half an hour.

[LWolf]

8. Why do you post this here, rather than at FR?

Why not talk to DUers, rather than freepers?

[malaise]

10. This is for lurking Freepers

I never go over there.

[LWolf]

12. I get that.

Why not just talk to DUers at DU? Why dedicate a whole post to "lurking freepers," instead of taking it to them where they live?

[KharmaTrain]

9. Surface Vs. Substance

Last Friday night, many who tuned in would agree that Senator Obama "LOOKED" the more Presidential...similar to how JFK did vs. Nixon in 1960. In many ways, perceptions mean more with these "debates" than the actual substance. Sadly, our elections have become personality contests and the debates have turned more into "Miss Congeniality" contests than a real exchange of ideas.

The corporate media has long decided that we can't deal with complex issues for too long...and thus the debates, that they dominate, are tailored to short answers and broad strokes rather than specifics. It's arranged to create confrontation rather than discussion of differences...any agreement is all but shown as a sign of weakness.

Also, these "debates" are played to a specific audience. For Biden, it was connecting with moderates and "working class"...while Grandma was trying to sell herself again to a very nervous base. While Biden was talking to their needs and concerns, she was repeating the soundbites and talking points that her "base" needed to hear.

Taking a step back and using the textbook definitions of a true debate, Palin was never in this thing. Her job was just to survive...fill her 2 minutes with as much "cute" and "let Sarah be Sarah" rather than anything of substance. Remember, the GOOP has NOTHING to run on this year and a lot to run from.

:hi:

[malaise]

11. Perfectly stated

:hi:

[peekaloo]

13. She's got my vote

for Jr. High Student Council.

That's what I was reminded of by her "performance". Your first time on stage in the assembly hall, nervously trying to touch upon everything in your notes, even backtracking at times because something got overlooked.

Getting in a "shout out" is important, too. :eyes: