So, Why Do So Many DU'ers Support the Bush/Paulson Bailout? Given their Track Record?

[KoKo]

Help me here. Bush/Cheney and their Crony Hacks have let everything go into "Desperation Mode,"...and, in fact they only occupy DC because the Supreme Court installed them in their high office to deplete and drain our Government Bathtub.

So Crisis after Crisis they use FEAR to WHIP us Voters into Shape...they've cowered our Congress and stalled and blocked investigations into their Crimes.

Yet, once again Congress will go along with what they want after being fooled over and over again...time after time...Bush & Cronies snap the whip and Congress and even us voters finally fall into line after a few days of weak bleating and push back.

WHY? :shrug:

How do we know that THIS TIME is the REAL TIME when Bush's "Broken Clock" stops once? How?

[blueinindiana]

1. I agree it makes me want to vomit!

This is the biggest money grab in American History!

[VP505]

2. Beats me.

:shrug:

[stray cat]

3. How do we know its not? If the doctor says I am at risk of sudden death left untreated

I typically vote for treatment. Also, economists I respect have explained it well. I actually think there is no crystal ball...but I also don't think Obama and Feingold and Buffet and others are idiots.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

14. Have those economists actually said that this treatment will

work?

[TexasObserver]

24. You'd listen to a doctor who had lied to you for the past 8 years?!

There's the problem.

[Occam Bandage]

38. If he's being backed up by a whole bunch of doctors who have told the truth,

then yeah, I might listen to them.

[TexasObserver]

40. Sure you would.

Like McCain, you'll say whatever you think works today, here.

Tomorrow, you'll be sworn to some other notion.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Which Truth Telling Doctors Do You Mean?

Geez, Nobel Laureate economists signed a letter saying they were against it. I don't know one economist, Austrian, technical, free market that are independent, repub, and dem, that think this is a good plan.

And i don't know one who thinks that the prediction of disaster if we don't has any basis in fact.
The Professor

[FreakinDJ]

27. This treatment eliminates the USA's ability to treat Recession

did anyone think of that

Falling



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fal

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....

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Who's The Doctor?

Is it Dr. DeBakke or Dr. Mengele? Would that make a difference in your decision to treat?
The Professor

[TexasObserver]

4. The most corrupt, incompetent, lying administration EVER asks for $700 billion.

How can you say NO?

[nradisic]

5. Ignorance is bliss...

You guys sound like freepers. It is an extremely complex subject that is not easy to answer in a couple of sentences. If we don't do something (and the only available source of so much $$$, is the US Gov't), we could be seeing the next great depression. I own a small business. Access to credit no matter how good your credit is non existent. No one is lending. The banks don't trust each other and the system is frozen. If we don't bring it back to life, companies, towns and municipalities will shortly be unable to meet even payroll. Financing of any sort is non existent given the situation and the US economy cannot survive longer than a few weeks in this state. If we do not take some form of major action, we will become a 19th century banana republic overnight - literally. It is not pretty and many ordinary folks cannot identify with how dire the situation is.

I also happen to have a degree in International Business...

[whosinpower]

12. It is complex

And I believe the problem/crisis is real. I also believe that 700 billion will not even slow down the looming recession. That lump around your neck that is dragging you down is the epic deficit/debt your government has managed to tie to your necks. 700 billion is a drop in the bucket.

You can wish all you want about hoping that credit will be extended and business will continue on as usual, but global confidence in the American model has been rocked to the core. Simply put - why would any foreign investor loan you money or extend credit if they were unsure if they would ever see that money again? And if you import far far more than you export - how will you pay that money back? How will you generate wealth? You're leaders allowed jobs to be outsourced, manufacturing jobs fled to cheaper waters.

I don't think it is coincidence that 700 billion is also the amount that your government spent on the Iraq War. In fact, I think your government borrowed the money to fund the war. I think they and Wall Street used you and your house as collateral. And now that collateral has failed because main street can no longer afford to pay for overpriced houses and a bubble created to further the illusion that the American economy was strong and stable. So, now the bill comes due. Institutional banks will no longer give any money to anyone for fear of losing. Foreign investors on the hook - are on the hook and are unwilling to extend more credit to a system that has burned them.

Labour cannot work its way out of this one - because labour has been outsourced. I don't see any easy way out of this one. 700 billion now is only a stop-gap measure to insure the value of those homes as they are priced now - but the price will have to fall to a point where the public can afford to buy them. I say stopgap - because they are hoping that the market will not be determined by what you or I could afford today......they are hoping that they can just hold on until 2010.

[Vincardog]

6. I do not support throwing our money at their problem. Tax the bastards who made money off these

"Toxic Loans" for the money to resolve their crisis.
Tax stock transactions at 1/2% per sale.
Make Corporate executive pay come out of After Tax profits.
If they can not make a profit they should not be running the company.
Move the retirement funds to the top of the line in bankruptcies.
Restore the rules the reThusg removed before giving anyone any money.
Make sure that the courts have juristiction and Congress has oversight of the Transparent resolution of the crisis.

[barbtries]

8. exactly!

they could make a bill that is more equitable, but instead they're holding out for this mess. it is wrong.

[barbtries]

7. i don't know how.

i sure as hell don't trust them and hate this solution. not good enough.

[GetTheRightVote]

9. About time someone asked that question, some DUs looking out for themselves

it looks like to me. Not thinking about the bigger picture which is the nation of 300 million.
It does not make sense, it is not logical what they are throwing our way once again so why are so many so willing to believe these thieves any way. If this problem is not of their own making like what happened after 9/11 then it smells like it is pretty darn close to it. It is stinking in the American home today - the Senate.

:grr:

[depakid]

10. Because this time, there's extensive oversight

and once an Obama administration is sworn in, there'll be plenty of time to hold people to account and re-regulate.

[KoKo]

11. But, it's four months until Obama Inaugurated and really February before Congress get's

back into speed in session.

The "Transistion" will take months before anything is in poace...so how can they "Fix It?" They would have to do it right after the Election if the Repugs don't steal it from Obama. And, there's the Fall Break, Halloween, Thanksgiving and Early Christmas breaks.. (I know I'm exaggerating...but the Fall doesn't leave a lot of time for Congress. Of course they managed to spend about a week on Paulson/Bernanke/Bush HYSTERIA...so maybe they will find a way to use the few weeks they have in the Fall to fix much before Obama is inaugurated and if the Repugs steal it again then let's hope the Repugs will have used their time after the election to thwart much of what the Repugs have in store for us if they manage to get re-installed in January.

Either way...it's better for Obama to have some tough legislation shoring him up in those first few months when he will be very busy with the other Crises that Bush/Cheney/Repugs will do in the almost four months until January 20th..

[hay rick]

13. Ask Barack.

You can also turn on the TV and see T (for traitor) Boone Pickens talking half-way sensibly on energy policy. The fact that Bush is reluctantly going along with the "bailout" proves nothing. Ad hominem attacks are a pointless distraction. Time to turn off Lou Dobbs and educate ourselves on the issues.

[AmyCamus]

15. If Obama supports it, we should support it too.

That's what "support" means.

[MadHound]

21. Wow, that's how Hitler got into power too

Not saying that Obama is anywhere close to Hitler, he isn't. But it was that same sort of mentality that allowed Hitler to climb so far, so fast.

Never, ever allow your leaders to do your thinking for you.

[AmyCamus]

28. Wow. That's really an interesting misunderstanding of everything you have there.

I suggest you find a night school near you and enroll.

[chupacabranation]

29. Can we please retire the "Hitler did that too" argument. It's played out . Thanks. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. Huh?

:crazy:

[AmyCamus]

43. You don't have to support our nominee if you don't want to. But I will.

Ain't America a great country?

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Let me tell you of a nursery rhyme

there was this boy who screamed wolf.. and the town came running

Then he screamed wolf again, and less came running

Then he screamed wolf again and even less came running... and this time he was warned

He screamed wolf and one person showed up

Finally he screamed wolf and nobody showed... alas there was a wolf...

This crisis did not start yesterday.. been building for years... so the wolf is real and in fact, they have been very late to the party in reacting to it.

That said this has probably a comma and a period from the Paulson plan.. and it is FAR FROM PERFECT... nor will it stop bad things from happening, just buy us time and hopefully lessen the coming recession

[gravity]

17. Because the crisis is real

Just because Bush or Paulson supports nothing, doesn't mean that it is a bad piece of legislation. Look at the facts and decide for your self.

[tech3149]

18. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but here's my take

Whatever the players in Washington decide to do, we're screwed. The only question is how hard and how deep. If we put up $700B without having some assurance that it's not being thrown down a rat hole, AND it's not linked to reasonable and enforceable regulation, they can kiss my hairy butt. The finance/ insurance/ real estate industries created this problem and I won't help them walk away clean while putting everyone else's future at risk.

[gopbuster]

30. Because we have to mitigate the damage for a few months

by throwing money at the top end of the problem in order to get Dems in to start working on the bottom end which are longer term fixes.

Right now Republican obstruction will keep us from getting anything we Dems want in a package fix.

It being done in tranches and with oversight will allow for some control.

I'm angry as anyone else here about it and there will be plenty of time to judge the way our Dem leaders handle this. So far Obama has made the right moves IMO by getting out in front of this thing with setting the principals.

[gopbuster]

31. Sorry meant to post in the main OP n/t

[Hugabear]

19. There are an awful lot more Democrats supporting it than there are Repukes

That alone should say something. I can't believe that so many Democrats would be wrong, and that so many Repugs would be right.

[Swamp Rat]

20. !

[EFerrari]

22. There is a real crisis right now, even if it's a capital strike.

Small businesses are grinding to a halt.

Will BushCo use it to rip us off? Of course they will.

But, something has to be done and fast. If we're lucky, the Democrats will see about restructuring and re-regulating, too.

[MadHound]

23. Fear, fear and inexperience

In many ways this reminds me of a high stakes union deal, both sides need the other, both sides facing economic hardship, both sides wanting a better deal. Both sides finally accepting a compromise that they can live with.

We want a better deal, we can get a better deal still. But we've got to hold strong and steady in order to get it. This Senate plan is nothing but repackaged Paulson plan. We need the House to put something better together.

[Forkboy]

25. Because drowning people don't care who throws them a life preserver.

And rightly or wrongly, people are scared.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Because "Bush is always wrong" is a stupid reason to oppose something

And while the "Great Depression II" thing might have been a shitty way of over-selling the bailout, I still think that the economic logic behind it is sound and that it is better to cough up the money than to have the markets tank.

And if we're going by appeals to authority, the bill is supported by Barney Frank who knows more about the financial system than anybody else in Congress. He is to financial services as Joe Biden is to Foreign Policy and as I recall, Biden attempted to place restrictions on the IWR but was undermined by Daschle.

[tjwash]

34. Oh honey..I'm so sorry I blackened both your eyes and broke your arm.

:cry:Please forgive me:cry:

:cry:it will never happen again:cry:



Oh...how can I stay mad at you? **hands over her checkbook to him**

GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE **pushes her against the wall with a force that knocks her out** Goes to the bar an gets hammerred and brags to his buddies how "you gotta keep 'em trained."

Given their track record of fucking up everything for everyone but the have and have-mores, I would say not giving those bastards anything is a very good idea.

[gopbuster]

32. Because we have to mitigate the damage for a few months

by throwing money at the top end of the problem in order to get Dems in to start working on the bottom end which are longer term fixes.

Right now Republican obstruction will keep us from getting anything we Dems want in a package fix.

It being done in tranches and with oversight will allow for some control.

I'm angry as anyone else here about it and there will be plenty of time to judge the way our Dem leaders handle this. So far Obama has made the right moves IMO by getting out in front of this thing with setting the principals.

[gopbuster]

35. Folks, they’ve got us all by the nuts and nipples....

The bail out in plain English (Joe Bageant)

http://www.worldnewstrust.com/wnt-reports/commentary/the-bail-out-in-plain-english-joe-bageant.html

snip


Folks, they’ve got us all by the nuts and nipples. McCain knows that. Obama knows that. In the end, regardless of the so-called dissenters in the House and the Senate, we will pay up. It s election season and the dissent is for show. So it looks like we will get some “concession.” For example, we will get shares in these “toxic assets” that are stinking up the joint. The rich need to dump them and dump them fast. In another magnanimous concession, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation will raise the insurance on “our savings” to $250,000 (how many readers have 250 K in the bank?). But it will be redeemable in even more inflated currency amid an inflationary environment. And, in case you didn’t know, the FDIC has up to ten years to pay up on that insurance. So don’t get any ideas about running off to Mexico, to which by the way, we are a net debtor nation.

We will pay. We will pay because the European banks holding all that bad paper we wrote demand that we make good on it so even more of their banks will not fail. We will pay because the Chinese, the Japs and everyone else will cut off the loan tap with which we pay the interest (not the principal) on our exploding super nova of national debt. We will pay because God loves the rich. We will pay because we will not be offered any other choice. We will pay because George Bush worked hard for all those Ds in school and became the first MBA president. We will pay because our media has internalized the capitalist system so thoroughly they can only talk in Wall Speak. We will pay because the only language we have to describe our world is that of our oppressors because we have been taught to think in Wall Speak. We will pay because we hitched our wagon to last stage capitalism and even though the wagon has now two wheels over the cliff and roars forward, we don’t know where the brake handle is located. And because we don’t know any better or understand any possible resistance to the system because we have been kept like worms in a jar and fed horse shit.

And as we all know, worms do not rise up in revolt.

That takes a backbone.

In art and labor,

joe

[LanternWaste]

36. I don't pretend to know...

I don't pretend to know what the actual and absolute root of the problem is, what the solutions are, or even what the eventual consequences are.

And as I'm not pretending to have full knowledge of this, I am forced (as is everyone who does not have full knowledge) to put my faith in the solutions of those whom I do trust who have more knowledge than I do. In my case, in the opinions and plans of the few remaining members of the government whom I both respect and believe (as are, I imagine, those same few members forced to place their faith in the economists that have a much fuller grasp then they themselves).

[Occam Bandage]

37. Why do so many DUers support House Republicans over Obama and the Democratic leadership?

[Truth2Tell]

41. Too much scary TeeVee? nt

[LWolf]

44. I don't support it.

I suspect most DUers do because their hero Obama does.