Why are we so nasty?

[tpsbmam]

I'm not pointing fingers -- I've been guilty myself. I've snapped at people lately both online and in "real life." While I've been known to do it OCCASIONALLY in the past, I'm typically a nice person who tries to make sure I don't make someone feel worse about themselves or add to their stress. I've felt really crappy a couple of times lately when I've snapped at people for little reason (I've gone back and apologized when I felt I was wrong).

I'm reading this board and I'm seeing some pretty nasty comments toward other people. I've been at DU for a long time but only got active lately so I don't have a gauge -- has this always been the case or are people getting nastier with the stress of everything that's gone on for the last 8 years and with the stress of what could happen in the coming days and years?

Everyone is stressed these days. People are wary of the future and what it holds for each of us.

For the most part, we don't know what people at the other ends of our posts are going through. For the most part, we don't know what kinds of pressures they're under. For the most part we don't know what their histories are and what we're doing to pile onto tough histories with our nasty remarks. We don't know what we're doing to the other person when we belittle them.

I'd like to think that everyone (except disruptive freepers) is welcome at DU and they don't have to have rock solid high self-esteem to post here. I'd like to think that we progressives can understand that we might be damaging another person when we belittle them and that we care about that. I'd like to think we can disagree without putting other people down.

This makes me sad.

[ShortnFiery]

1. We are about to allow Corporate Congress to give away our children's future.

Dammit, it's our tax dollars. Congress has NO RIGHT to act contrary to the desires of their constituents. :grr:

[tpsbmam]

3. So does that mean that we have to be nasty to each other? I don't get your

response. I'm not saying I don't understand why people are angry, I'm saying I'm sad to see that anger is associated with people being nasty to others in the same boat. Is that helping?

[gateley]

7. I'm going through one of the most stressful times in my life. And although

I come here for strength and companionship (no, really!) I'm at such a fragile emotional point that the least little thing that I might possibly construe as negative pushes me over the edge. Thank you for your post - I will keep it in mind next time I knee-jerk react to something.
:hug:

[ShortnFiery]

8. I find the behavior of "playing DU nanny" equally distasteful. And not productive in

moving the discussion into a more mature frame of reference.

[PVnRT]

13. And your posts are?

I didn't realize flaming those who disagreed with you was very "mature."

[ShortnFiery]

32. I didn't start the thread ... starting an entire thread on "being nice" is just, IMO, destructive as

Hell. It serves no purpose - set the example, or don't - but complaining just leads to ... more complaining? We're all guilty.

[AirmensMom]

16. Who's "playing DU nanny?"

And how does asking the question of why people are being nasty NOT move "the discussion into a more mature frame of reference?" If we are mature, we should be able to remain civil to each other.

[ShortnFiery]

30. Why not "set the example" than getting all "thou shalt" on us? eom

[AirmensMom]

47. So, you're saying that

suggesting we be nice to each other is "getting all 'thou shalt' on us?" I see nothing wrong with the OP and nothing wrong with agreeing we should be civil to each other. It's clear that you disagree.

[rug]

20. Stop yelling at Tommy, Angelica.

[Tallison]

25. I wholly disagree with you

and think the OP has an excellent point.

[AngryOldDem]

29. Everyone is under a lot of stress right now.

So tell me...how productive is it to bite each other's heads off, constantly?

I think a re-read of the OP is in order here.

It's not so much being a "DU nanny" -- it's just being basically civil and respectful of one another.

[ShortnFiery]

33. Yeah, and ORDERING us to "be nice" is so productive?

:crazy:

[AirmensMom]

49. No one ORDERED anything.

Why are you spending so much energy telling others what kind of post is productive or not? Anyone else see the irony?

[AngryOldDem]

51. I didn't see anybody "ordering" anybody to do anything.

Can't you see that this is just the kind of contentiousness that makes this board so difficult to be around at times?

Tell me...what is gained by making every single thing a pissing contest? How is that being productive? \

Apparently you're reading your own displaced anger into what the OP is saying. Not much I, or anyone else here, can do about that.

[Kickin_Donkey]

40. This is a prime example of the nastiness,

[ShortnFiery]

41. Right, I started the thread.

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

48. We've been mortgaging our children's future for 30 years and the mortgage is FORECLOSED!

... but nobody cares about the people victimized by the foreclosures ... only about selling out the "toxic waste" (those futures) for whatever the debtholder can get.

Wow ... talk about derivatives! Our grandchildren are TOAST.

[Uben]

2. Who the hell you callin nasty?

/sarcasm

[LeftyFingerPop]

4. Nice post...thank you...

There is enough shit going on without us being mean to each other. We are all on the same side after all.

[MiniMe]

5. IMHO, 2 things are causing this. The economy/bailout bill and the election

I think we are all a bit worried that McSame will steal the election. :scared:

When Obama wins, I think things will settle down for a bit.

[1awake]

6. People are under stress,

and its a larger amount of stress than most are accustomed to. It's not stress like.. I ran short this month and don't know how I'm going to pay my cable tv bill.. its more like.. everything I saved for years may disappear tomorrow, now what do I do. So, some are scared, and when people are scared, they tend to lash out. But I'm stating the obvious.

[tpsbmam]

10. I know....it's the old have a crappy day at work and come home and take

it out on the kids/dog/significant other scenario. I just wish people would take a step back and realize that's what they're doing. I know that's just the way some people talk to others but I've just been noticing a fair amount of this around here lately and it's really bugging me. We're all in this together!

[1awake]

17. agreed,

But try and take it for what it is. Right now, on these boards, we have several "arm-chair" economists spouting silly predictions that their magic 8-ball gave out after a nice shake. This is coming from both sides of the issue. So we got them fighting, we have those with more experience arguing with them and with each other.. and we have the rest of the posters stuck in the middle listening to predictions of doom from both sides, not knowing who's full of poop and who's not. Quite alot of stress when the stakes could range from a mild recession up to a full blown "real" crash.

We are all in this together, in more ways than one. No matter how this is sliced.. it's going to hurt to one degree or another.

[galileoreloaded]

9. I like stuff nasty.

Put some stank on it and break it down!!!

J/K

[natrat]

11. at least it's about important topics, visit car interest forums and the internet comandos are silly

[AirmensMom]

12. "I'd like to think that everyone

(except disruptive freepers) is welcome at DU and they don't have to have rock solid high self-esteem to post here."

Yeah, me too. But you'll see a lot of posts about needing thick skin.

Many good DUers don't post much anymore. I miss them and I miss the camaraderie we used to share.

[PVnRT]

14. Rough times bring out the assholes

There are few here (including myself at times) who are able to disagree respectfully regarding this mess we're in.

[hatrack]

15. Because we've been receiving nothing but nasty for the past eight years

If you opposed Bush, you "hated 'Murica".

If you were against invading Iraq on fabricated evidence, you "wanted the terrorists to win".

If you didn't believe that taking repeated big smelly dumps on the Constitution in putative pursuit of "security" was the right thing to do, you were naive, delusional, weak and stupid.

We've been called everything from anti-American to liberal fascists, politically correct to puppets of al Qaeda, and we've had enough, and we're throwing roundhouse punches, and some of them are missing their intended targets.

Regrettable, yes, but hardly surprising.

"I and the public know what all schoolchildren learn
Those to whom evil is done do evil in return." - W.H. Auden

[PVnRT]

19. Yeah, like we're not "real leftists" if we don't oppose the bailout

[Tallison]

23. This leftist is grateful for some long-overdue intervention

That some say 'death to Wall St.,' as if it's tributaries don't lead straight to our front door, seems more resonant with the RW island isolationist worldview.

[SheilaT]

18. It's long been that way here.

It's just that it's more noticeable around election time.

Some of the problem is that the number of posters has grown enormously, and sometimes the newbies take a while to figure out the unwritten rules here. And then there are the ones who sign up just to disrupt. But it's probably going to stay this way, maybe even get worse, until well after the election. If McCain actually "wins" the despair here will be terrible. If Obama wins, brace yourself for a real horde of gloating freeper types.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Frustration.

Sometimes we want this board to do more for us in resolving our private battles than it's capable of doing. When all else fails, it becomes a sounding board or a place to emotionally release, (at least for me) and for other, maybe a whipping boy.

[cobalt1999]

22. Name a message board on the internet that isn't sometimes.

It's just the nature of the beast.

Ever seen a sports board? Motorcycle forum? Fishing forum? And on and on and on...

When making a point in just a few words, subtlety, tone, and nuance are all lost. Also, interpretation of meaning is greatly up to the reader's mood and attitude too. Add in the anonymity factor, and it's a mix not for the faint of heart anywhere online.

[tpsbmam]

24. I don't go to those for just that reason. But it's not just subtleties, it's

blatantly attributing demeaning characteristics to people. I clearly need to adjust my expectations though. Adjusting doesn't mean I won't continue to hope for better from progressives. I expect it from freepers, which is partly why I don't go to a wide variety of forums anymore.

[cobalt1999]

31. Progressives are people too.

Messages board participants should keep in mind this Frank Zappa quote:

"I take a very cynical point of view, I think that being cynical is a positive value, I think that nobody should trust anybody else, I think that all people are assholes until proven different, and I think that if you take that point of view you will be disappointed less in life."

[tpsbmam]

38. I disagree with Zappa.....

I had a combination of a very good and a very crappy early life. Without getting into detail I'll just say that one of the things I'm proud of is that I didn't let the cruel assholes turn me into a cruel asshole. I'm proud I grew up vowing to NOT treat people the way I was treated and, with some failures on my part, I've mostly achieved that. I assume people are good until and unless they prove otherwise. Yes I've gotten burned a couple of times and I absolutely don't apply that to business dealings -- I protect myself when it comes to business. I apply that to the people I do business with but signing a contract is another matter -- I protect myself in that case. But I've never found a person in whom I couldn't find something I like, and believe me, sometimes it take work to find it! I'm sure there are people out there that I simply couldn't find anything to like about them and I just have yet to meet them, but I've been able to do this with a wide variety of people so far. And, yes, even the cruel assholes in my childhood had some good qualities.

[cobalt1999]

46. Homo Sapians aren't a "nice" species.

There are some individual exceptions who act better than others, but for the most part, we are a selfish and self-centered species.

[blondeatlast]

27. No kidding. I used to moderate a diabetes forum on a much bigger medical board.

This is a place where newly-diagnosed would come for education and support but it could get hideous at times. One of the worst topics was the Atkins Diet--and we were off. It got almost cult-like.

I stay away from it now. Politics is worth a bare-knuckle fight; a life-threatening disease deserves a gentle hand.

[girl gone mad]

26. Speaking for myself..

I've been following this financial situation almost every day for the last 5 years. I still don't feel that I could predict with any certainty what's going to happen today, tomorrow or next week. I have a general sense. I anticipated the rise and collapse of the housing bubble and the bank failures.

It gets under my skin when people who are new to the situation, in my eyes, promote themselves as experts who can guarantee that if we don't act right now, total financial havoc will ensue.

It feels a bit like when you have a favorite band that no one has ever heard of, then suddenly they become super-famous and you keep hearing horrible cover bands butcher their songs.

[patomime]

28. ...."For the most part, we don't know what people -

at the other ends of our posts are going through." Man--- did you hit that on the head! Yeah, and I have a low post count - so? I don't spend 19 hours a day so that my post rate goes up by 1,000 every day. To those of you who have accused me of being other than I am, a 20 year democrat - I really don't care. Don't bother replying to this post, I'll just ignore you, because basically after the last few days, I don't really give a damn what you have to say (and you know who you are). Yeah, and I'm angry - so don't bother replying about that either, I don't know what goes on with you, and you certainly don't know what goes on with me.

But, the same people who are being nicey today, will be doing the same tomorrow. So, before I get hit up with 40 or 50 alerts and mods all over me (they've never bothered me before), I want Barack Obama and Joe Biden elected!

I don't really care whether you like me or not, just tell me (not on this post) what you disagree with when I say something. If you're nice -- I'll respond, if not then too bad if you don't like my opinion, step off my thread, it's my thread and I have the right to say it!

And --------------- if I offended anybody, toooooooooooooooooooooo bad!

No more Ms. Nice Guy.

Oh - and have a great day!

[justaregularperson]

55. Some have been particularly nasty to people with low post counts

[helderheid]

34. Jerkoff.

Just kiddin'

:hug:

[pitohui]

35. because suffering doesn't enoble, suffering spoils the personality

this is one of the difficulties people find in the helping professions, for the most part, terrible suffering takes a terrible toll on one's personality AND character and makes the victim of the tragedy actually a difficult person to deal with

example: it is easy to be courteous when you are in strong health, it is not so easy when, say, you are suffering from chronic pain and your doctor has just informed you that the DEA is investigating him and he will not be able to prescribe any more of the medicines that you need to function

this country is in terrible pain and people have been victimized by repeated crimes and outrages

so grouchy and nasty is going to happen, in an ideal world, no, it wouldn't but in the ideal world there would be no need for politics to begin with because everyone would be decent without need for a world of laws

[tpsbmam]

42. I have to disagree.....

I was in a helping profession and I worked in hospitals. Yes, people can get nasty. But far more than seeing that I saw two things:

1. People reacting initially with sweetness & light and then returning to their premorbid styles. People have pretty ingrained defensive styles, personality characteristics, etc. For the most part, people fell back into the styles that characterized them before their health crises. On an anecdotal level, I saw this with both of my parents when they were sick and facing death. They both were very much who they were before they were sick. Dad was affable, accepting & brave. He occasionally got impatient and lashed out which, under the circumstances was VERY understandable, but 95% of the time, he was amazing. He'd often been an asshole when we were growing up -- he learned and grew through tragedy (the early death of his brother & best friend).....he came out the other end a better man. I've seen that on a regular basis. Mom was pretty much her same old stoic self. Yes, she had more anger come out but she had that happen as she got older anyway -- that had more to do with disappointment than it did with illness. But she was pretty much herself through everything. People's styles can get exaggerated and sometimes regressive (usually temporary in the latter case) but they didn't typically become something they previously weren't.

2. More in the minority but still true, once through the initial crisis and sometimes with some intervention, I saw people ultimately grow, sometimes remarkably, under the most horrific conditions. I've seen drug addicts change their lives after horrific accidents, etc. I'd expound but I'm racing.

[QC]

36. No, it hasn't always been this nasty.

DU was never Rainbow Brite's Happy Meadow, mind you, but the ugliness you see now, to say nothing of the mob rule atmosphere, is mostly a product of this primary season, when the rules were pretty much suspended and people were allowed to do whatever they liked without consequences.

So we have ended up with a place where profane name-calling has taken the place of discussion and where playground bullies are firmly in control. Yeah, it's ugly, and while some will insist that it was always this way, it wasn't, not by a long shot.

Unfortunately, those in charge don't seem inclined to do anything about it.

[LiberalHeart]

37. Try this again, but tell us to be nasty, ugly, vindictive, foul-mouthed, etc. .....

THEN everyone will post back that you are a terrible person and they'll be sweetness and light, thank you very much. You can't win.

[MooseGoose]

39. Anonimity plays a part...

A lot is said in online social worlds of all types that would never be said or done in a face-to-face social situation. Since there are usually no real consequences to nasty behavior, it makes this place a safe place to vent all that frustration and suffering others are posting about. Like a release valve. Is it productive for the discussion at hand? Usually not so much. Is it productive for the nasty poster? It's such a universal phenomena online, that there must be some payoff.

Another aspect is the imperfection of text-only communication - even with the addition of emoticons. In the real world we get so much more information as to a speaker's intent and meaning through their body language, tone, pacing, etc... Here, it's difficult to express one's ideas fully in the little snippets we exchange. This leads to misunderstandings, perceptions of being attacked, word-parsing arguments, and other unfortunate obstructions to communication. Not a good thing for self-described frustrated people to discuss their deeply cherished beliefs!

Nice post -- mutual respect is not a bad thing to be reminded of from time to time.

All imho of course.

[ShortnFiery]

43. Why is it a nice post to act "haughty" ... I just don't get it.

I think such "police state" posts unsettling. People are looking to be complemented for being a NAG. Why do we complement people for acting like "social norm" authoritarians? :(

[PVnRT]

52. Care to point out where the OP is demanding a behavioral standard?

For that matter, care to point out what power the poster has to implement it?

[MooseGoose]

54. Makes sense that if you're reading the OP as haughty...

nagging and authoritarian you feel bothered and unsettled. We're just reading it differently, and naturally reacting differently.

[dgibby]

44. I can handle most of it, but

there are posters here that seem to delight in disruptive behavior. They remind me of the way McCain treated Obama during the debate. No respect, condescending, etc. I think of them as professional flamethrowers. They drop in on a thread just long enough to demean the op and others, then move on to the next thread. I think we nee a SNARK ATTACK button!

[ColoradoMagician]

45. Don't be sad, think like Obama.

Many times I have found solice and direction when I think, "What would Obama do?"

His calm demeanor and focus on reality is very refreshing. The leader of the country also steers the attitude of the country.

[prayin4rain]

50. I agree... if I get told that I am stupid,

lack education, that I just don't get it, or to get a clue one more time just because I am not in favor of this bailout ... I am gonna scream!!!! I disagree with people all the time without assuming I am a hundred percent right and if they can't see that it is because the education system has failed us all. Ugh, I am sick of it too! Good post.

[elehhhhna]

53. We are bitter. I, personally, am clinging to my guns & religion.

[madmusic]

56. Lives of not so quiet desperation

Not pretty.

[OakCliffDem]

57. I got no problem being nasty toward Republicans

It is a matter of self-preservation. Plus they deserve it