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Are we agreed that "something" needs to be done? or not?

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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:24 PM
Original message
Are we agreed that "something" needs to be done? or not?
whether it's a bail out or some other solution or doing nothing at all - then what?

what assurances do we have that a mccaniac deregulation happy repub won't pull us back into this hole?
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Certainly not "by Friday"
We need to present OUR solution from the ground up and ignore Paulsen.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. No. We haven't agreed.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. yes and that something is: IMPEACH, INDICT, IMPRISON
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not
I don't pretend to understand economics but these crooks have been too vague. A bank doesn't loan me money because I go to them and say "I really really need it or things will suck for everyone if I don't have money"
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. call their bluff
is my advice.


it's going to end up on their necks eventually.

6 more weeks
dp
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. yeah i think so
but definintely not this give us 700 billion B.S. but yeah the government will have to insure the debts or something.... they need to get the top economist together from the universities in my opinion and start from scratch.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. With the dearth of factual information...
...it is difficult to know what to do.

Most of what we receive is spin or outright lies.

There is obviously something seriously wrong in the financial system. There are no quick fixes or easy answers. Quick fixes and easy answers are what got us here in the first place. I have very little faith that any of this is going to end well.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. then what?
what is the solution? and then what next?

pouring water on a fire will put it out, but it doesn't prevent another fire from starting up. so after we put this one out - or not... then what?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. not agreed at all-- I do not want a bail out on the deregulators terms...
...and re-regulation of the financial industry-- something that I'd very much like to see happen-- should be approached comprehensively and thoughtfully, not in a panic.

At the very most, I'd favor a minimum stopgap solution coupled with an intensive effort to find a viable long term solution that would fundamentally change the financial industry's business models. Disaster capitalism, unbridled capitalism, etc need to be reined in, not bailed out.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. what is something supposed to accomplish and what chance does it have at doing so?
Edited on Thu Sep-25-08 06:33 PM by Oregone
No one knows what to do at the moment.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Investigate, prosecute, imprison
Re-regulate the financial, accounting, mortgage, and media industries, end the Bush tax cuts, get out of Iraq, curtail military spending, rebuild our manufacturing infrastructure...
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Oh yes, something needs to be done all right...
...start with a re-set of all of our mortgages to reflect the real valuation of our homes. For renters, some offsetting subsidy also. Then take over repo-d homes that are sitting empty and create affordable housing. If it's a McMansion, divide it up into 2, 3 or 4 units as appropriate. Ignore the NIMBYs, at this point it's irrelevant. Hey, we're in a crisis, right? Time to pull together...

In the meantime, start arresting the heads of banks and financial institutions, and CEOs who were responsible for perpetrating this financial fraud and causing a global financial crisis. Now start a green jobs and infrastructure program for oh, say $700Bn, and start hiring people who do not otherwise have gainful employment to help us rebuild our country, increasing disposable income and breaking the stranglehold of foreign oil...

What's that you say? Wake up, wake up... Oh. (sits up, rubs eyes). Right you are, I musta been dreaming there...
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Rancid Crabtree Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, it's been done before
but what I don't get is why the financial institutions would acquire these shaky mortgages. And wasn't one of the reasons for the fiasco that mortgages were given to folk who otherwise wouldn't qualify, no money down and whatnot. Isn't that part of the problem?
Government having a hand in things...unintended consequences and now we have them in big gulp size. Heard on the news that the dollar amount may not be 700 billion. Whatever the case, seems like it's politics as usual in Washington. Apparently something needs to be done, our fearless leaders seem to agree on that...so how could doing nothing at all be an answer?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. you mean this stuff?

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
June 18, 2002
President Reiterates Goal on Homeownership
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020618-1.html
Remarks by the President on Homeownership
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Washington, D.C.
******
The goal is, everybody who wants to own a home has got a shot at doing so. The problem is we have what we call a homeownership gap in America. Three-quarters of Anglos own their homes, and yet less than 50 percent of African Americans and Hispanics own homes. That ownership gap signals that something might be wrong in the land of plenty. And we need to do something about it.

We are here in Washington, D.C. to address problems. So I've set this goal for the country. We want 5.5 million more homeowners by 2010 -- million more minority homeowners by 2010. (Applause.) Five-and-a-half million families by 2010 will own a home. That is our goal. It is a realistic goal. But it's going to mean we're going to have to work hard to achieve the goal, all of us. And by all of us, I mean not only the federal government, but the private sector, as well.


And so I want to, one, encourage you to do everything you can to work in a realistic, smart way to get this done. I repeat, we're here for a reason. And part of the reason is to make this dream extend everywhere.

I'm going to do my part by setting the goal, by reminding people of the goal, by heralding the goal, and by calling people into action, both the federal level, state level, local level, and in the private sector. (Applause.)

And so what are the barriers that we can deal with here in Washington? Well, probably the single barrier to first-time homeownership is high down payments. People take a look at the down payment, they say that's too high, I'm not buying. They may have the desire to buy, but they don't have the wherewithal to handle the down payment. We can deal with that. And so I've asked Congress to fully fund an American Dream down payment fund which will help a low-income family to qualify to buy, to buy. (Applause.)

We believe when this fund is fully funded and properly administered, which it will be under the Bush administration, that over 40,000 families a year -- 40,000 families a year -- will be able to realize the dream we want them to be able to realize, and that's owning their own home. (Applause.)

The second barrier to ownership is the lack of affordable housing. There are neighborhoods in America where you just can't find a house that's affordable to purchase, and we need to deal with that problem. The best way to do so, I think, is to set up a single family affordable housing tax credit to the tune of $2.4 billion over the next five years to encourage affordable single family housing in inner-city America. (Applause.)

The third problem is the fact that the rules are too complex. People get discouraged by the fine print on the contracts. They take a look and say, well, I'm not so sure I want to sign this. There's too many words. (Laughter.) There's too many pitfalls. So one of the things that the Secretary is going to do is he's going to simplify the closing documents and all the documents that have to deal with homeownership.

It is essential that we make it easier for people to buy a home, not harder.
And in order to do so, we've got to educate folks. Some of us take homeownership for granted, but there are people -- obviously, the home purchase is a significant, significant decision by our fellow Americans. We've got people who have newly arrived to our country, don't know the customs. We've got people in certain neighborhoods that just aren't really sure what it means to buy a home. And it seems like to us that it makes sense to have a outreach program, an education program that explains the whys and wherefores of buying a house, to make it easier for people to not only understand the legal implications and ramifications, but to make it easier to understand how to get a good loan.

There's some people out there that can fall prey to unscrupulous lenders, and we have an obligation to educate and to use our resource base to help people understand how to purchase a home and what -- where the good opportunities might exist for home purchasing.

Finally, we want to make sure the Section 8 homeownership program is fully implemented. This is a program that provides vouchers for first-time home buyers which they can use for down payments and/or mortgage payments. (Applause.)

So this is an ambitious start here at the federal level. And, again, I repeat, you all need to help us every way you can. But the private sector needs to help, too. They need to help, too. Of course, it's in their interest. If you're a realtor, it's in your interest that somebody be interested in buying a home. If you're a homebuilder, it's in your interest that somebody be interested in buying a home.

And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital.
Thank you all for coming by.



Greenspan’s sins return to haunt us

By David Blake

Published: September 18 2008 18:39 | Last updated: September 18 2008 18:39

Bruised by stock market losses, Americans bought houses. The mortgage industry used securitised bonds to ensure that the people who initiated the mortgage did not worry about getting paid back; risk was packaged and sold to others. This time Mr Greenspan did not just stand aside. He said repeatedly that housing was a safe investment because prices do not fall. Home owners could wait out any downturn. Is it any surprise that so many people thought if the world’s financial genius held this view it must be all right?

Even as things went completely wild, Mr Greenspan dismissed those who warned that a new bubble was emerging. It was just a case of a little “froth” in a few areas. Later, after waiting until 2007, two years after he left office, he conceded that “froth” had been his euphemism for “bubble”. “All the froth bubbles add up to an aggregate bubble,” he told the Financial Times.

This time, as with the equity bubble, the mistake was not to set interest rates too low; it was to stand back as wildly imprudent policies were pursued by mortgage lenders. Indeed, any lender would have been encouraged by his words in April 2005: “Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit, lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately. These improvements have led to rapid growth in subprime mortgage lending.” Well, he was right about the rapid growth in subprime lending.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32b85c72-859b-11dd-a1ac-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are we even agreed that something "can" be done.
As far as our bankrupt economy goes, I doubt anything workable can be done that isn't going to cause a helluva lot of pain.

What their attempting to do now is like throwing a drowning person an anvil that they've painted to look like a lifejacket.
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