Both my brother and my son-in-law believe Obama

[katmondoo]

will raise their taxes 24%. They have only 5 to 7 employees, I do not think Obama is going to target this type of small business. The Republican have made them believe this. Is there anyone who has information on this that can help me persuade them they will not be paying huge tax increases. We are not talking millions of profit here.

[grannie4peace]

1. tell them the truth-there all kinds of facts on the net

[YOY]

2. Do they make over 250K?

If so then they will go up. Otherwise send them a link to Obama's tax plan.

If that's not good enough then sorry...they're lost.

[beac]

6. Exactly!

And anyone that is pulling a quarter-million dollars a year in income out of their company is not a 'small businessman.'

[endthewar]

12. What if the revenue of the business is $250,000 per year

and they file it as an individual tax return? I don't know much about small business tax code, so I'm just asking. This was one of Carly Fiorina's talking points a while back. :hi:

[beac]

16. Then they are being idiotic for not either incorporating or doing an LLC or subchapter S, etc.

I have been self-employed many times over the years, but never really made bucks big enough to warrant incorporating. Yes, the self-employment tax of 15% on-top of your regular income tax isn't fun, but you ARE an employer (of yourself).

A family with one-earner and two kids with an AGI of $200K would still get a tax break of $5,856.62 under Obama's plan.
(FYI, no kids would = $4,156.62 and same if it was a two-earner/no-kids situation.)

[endthewar]

18. The way Carly Fiorina described it

She described a scenario where a small business files its own tax return as an individual. Nothing to do with the taxes of the people owning the business. It was one of their best small business talking points and I think it resonated with some small business owners.

[beac]

25. Don't trust a word out of Carly Fiorina's lying mouth.

Remember she got FIRED from HP AND she's a McCain spokeswhore.

That said, we need to make sure WE do a BETTER job of undoing all the damage Lying Carly has done in terms of the public perception.

[kestrel91316]

8. More specifically, do they have more than 250k in PROFITS,

not just gross.

Somebody who takes home over 250k probably NEEDS to be paying more taxes. At least more than I pay on my meager take-home.

[glinda]

20. there may be other relief though

maybe figured in are other factors. I rather doubt it is cut and dry. Could be they will not have to cover health insurance or if they do, it might actually be lower.

[YOY]

29. All the more reason to support socialized medicine.

There is not a damn good reason to vote for McCain whatsoever.

[mike_c]

3. SOMEBODY has to face the fiscal facts of life, dammit....

Taxes have to be raised or outlays have to be slashed-- the nation is running on CREDIT, for pete's sake, and the bill is going to come due no matter how much we'd prefer to live in fiscal fantasy. We're ALL going to have to pay more, and make sacrifices.

On the other hand, if your family isn't making much money, then a percentage increase in taxes won't be much more to contribute, will it? Clearly, the greatest burden needs to be borne by those best able to afford it, and those less able should bear less. But it's time for Americans to stop worrying about IF their taxes need to be raised, and start discussing HOW to do it fairly and for the greater benefit of society, IMO.

[LeftinOH]

4. From Obama's own website:

*Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama and Biden will also support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/?gclid=CNaXp_7F8pUCFQpjnAodOFpQeQ#small-business

[ramapo]

5. Nobody's taxes are going up 24%

Where does this crap come from?

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Rush Fox news O'Liely Hannity and SavageWeiner probably.

:shrug: And instead of trying to find out if it's true or not, these people who are too lazy to think for themselves, just believe those people? I listed.

Those people will be the ones Obama targets. The same people who have enjoyed nice tax cuts for 7 yrs now and who deserve to pay more.

[VWolf]

7. Small business owner here

I don't have any information to the contrary, but I find that quite hard to believe.

Why don't you ask THEM to provide evidence? Sounds like a bunch of BS.

[Lex]

9. What specifically are they basing it on or just pulling it out their rear-end?

Please have them produce what they are basing this belief on?

[beac]

10. Send them this link and graphic:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html





Tell them to go here http://www.alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/ and calculate their taxes under Obama's plan. Are you they less than $603,000? If so, Obama isn't going to raise their taxes, the data show.



And ask them WHY they would think about voting for a man who is so CLEARLY LYING about taxes? Would they trust McCain to tell them the truth about anything when THIS lie is so easily debunked??

Ask then why McCain thinks the SUPER rich and HUGE corporations deserve EVEN MORE tax relief than they are already getting?

Ask them if they'd like to see corporations that move their business offshore retain their tax breaks (under McCain) or lose them (under Obama)?

[dhpgetsit]

11. They are sadly mistaken.

They need to do some research. Don't let them just believe what certain right-wing "pundits" say. Listen to the candidates themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJ7Ad15WCA
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business
http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

[Sgent]

13. To be fair

they could be earning over 250k a year, but only taking home 100k or less, and the new taxes could really cause them problems. Because small businesses are taxed on net profit, that means they have to pay taxes on any money that is reinvested into additional working capital (inventory, recievables, etc) or equipment.

I know many small businesses where the "profit" is north of 250k and the take home of the owner is less than 50.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. Tell them they won't have a business to tax if we have ...

4 more years of Republican rule.

[VP505]

15. There have been some excellant posts on this

here is a link to one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3905053

[ColbertWatcher]

17. According to the Washington Post ...

... only the filthy rich will get an increase, but that increase is 11.5% of what they were making before.

This chart shows the top 1% of Americans will get the increase of 11.5%.


But, looking further, http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm">CNN shows that if someone earns $2.87 million, their tax bill would be $701,885 in 2009.

That works out to 24.46% after an increase of 11.5%. Which means people making $2.87 million were taxed 21.93% prior to the 11.5% increase, or $629,391 (a difference of $72,494.

If anyone sees that my numbers are wrong, please let me know.

[kirby]

27. Huh?

"But, looking further, CNN shows that if someone earns $2.87 million, their tax bill would be $701,885 in 2009."

That chart shows their taxes would go UP by that amount, not be that amount. (Unless they are paying 0 now under Bush which could be likely...LOL)

I think the 2.87 guy, when Bushs tax cuts expure, will go back to being in the 39.6% bracket.

[Hansel]

19. The "Dems will raise my taxes" fear is so myopic.

If Dems had been in power over the past 8 years does anyone really believe that we would be paying over $4 for gas? If Dems had had total control for 6 if the past 8 years we would likely have many more windmills and higher mileage fuel efficient vehicles and all energy costs would likely be lower, not just gasoline.

Our state raised "fees" bus transportation and other government provided programs. Property taxes went the roof. This is all because voters wanted a governor who wouldn't raise income taxes. He rationalizes that "fees" are not taxes. And one of our bridges fell down. Another costly adventure because the gov didn't want to go back on his pledge not to raise taxes on his buddies. What would a few more dollars to do maintenance have been when we now know the alternative?

We will pay far more for every governmental program because we didn't pay up front. With the interest we are and will be paying, we could have rebuilt our entire highway infrastructure or all new schools or paid for universal health care instead of sending the money to China along with our jobs.

And we wouldn't have had to pay $1 trillion for a war that should have never been waged and another trillion to feed the little Republican piggies collapsing at the trough because their Halloween candy is gone.

A little increase in their income taxes would have been a far more favorable alternative to the see of red we are facing. And their net income would likely not be any different because their health care insurance would be lower.

So the choice is to pay now or pay later, but pay we will. I prefer paying less, but that option is out the window because of the mindless ninnies who don't get that taxes are a necessary, and in Democratic control, a far less costly evil.

[offog]

23. Hear, hear!

What is the big deal anyhow with taxes going up a few bucks to pay for infrastructure, schools, or whatever? Or HEALTHCARE? It could mean a relatively small amount of money from each middle-class and affluent person adding up to a decent amount of money for government programs.

This argument that "fees" don't count as taxes is bogus. It reminds of arguments over differences between the provinces of Saskatchewan and Alberta, which are next to each other. (I'm in Saskatchewan.) As you probably know, Alberta is an oil-wealthy province. For years, Saskatchewan conservatives have been hollering about how much better things are in Alberta because it has lower income taxes and no provincial sales tax. Sure, if you're in an average family moving to Alberta, you'll save about $800 or $900 in taxes each year. You'll also pay $800 or $900 each year in Medicare premiums, which we don't have to worry about in Saskatchewan. You ask people "Don't Medicare premiums count as taxes?", and they'll say no. (BTW, the current Alberta Premier is talking about eliminating Medicare premiums because the Province is rich enough.)

The main beef against universal healthcare is that it would mean a rise in taxes. Well, you either pay thousands of dollars to a private health insurance company that will look for ways to screw you over, or you pay a little extra in taxes to get health benefits that will be there when you need them. And you won't have to worry about losing your benefits every time you're unemployed or change jobs.

I guess the conservatives have conditioned people to panic about taxes while paying thousands for insurance.

Best wishes to all the progressive people out there.

[misanthrope]

21. Long as he don't make us do no book learnin'...

...so's we don't come off lookin' all elitist and all.

[Gato Moteado]

24. what state do they live in?

nt

[DeeDeeNY]

26. Obama's tax plan.

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

[kirby]

28. Obama will raise the payroll (Soc Sec) taxes...

Right now the 6.2% is only assessed on the first $102,000 of income. He will remove that cap so that everyone pays the same on all their income. Businesses pay that for their employees. Self-employed people get screwed because we have two pay both the employer half and the employee half.

[shadowknows69]

30. And they're going to get tax breaks for being a company who stays in america