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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 03:46 PM
Original message
Local religion editor starts argument with Talk2Action blog about Palin's religion.
I have a feeling that Bruce Wilson and Frederick Clarkson and the other good writers there at Talk2Action will hold their own in any debate with The Ledger's Cary McMullen.

I find it interesting that McMullen feels the need to respond to the comparisons and queries about connections between Sarah Palin's religious background and that of Todd Bentley and Joel's Army which he wrote about previously.

Here is what he wrote about the pentecostal re-examining:

The giant white tents are gone now, and so are the crowds of thousands. The evangelist, disgraced, is in hiding. The revival carries on as a bare remnant of its former glory.

One effect of the revival was to provoke what some believe is a crisis in the Pentecostal community, or in that part of it known as "charismatic," meaning those who believe in powerful manifestations of God, such as speaking in tongues, faith healing and prophecy.

"Major Pentecostal figures have been alarmed because the Florida Outpouring epitomized recent excesses in the charismatic world. The dark side of the Florida Outpouring has been a wakeup call," said Jim Beverley, professor of Christian thought and ethics at Tyndale Seminary in Toronto, an evangelical who has studied the Pentecostal movement.


Here is what he is writing today. Most of it is a pretty fair column, and he appears to come to the conclusion that the ties between Palin and Joel's Army are too "loose" to be concerned about. He also refers to an article by Casey Sanchez of the Southern Poverty Law Center. I don't see the article there yet.

Palin, Bentley Ties Too Loose

It's hard to imagine two more different people than the straitlaced Republican vice-presidential candidate and the tattooed, now-disgraced, faith-healing evangelist who led a raucous four-month revival here in Lakeland. Yet there are some in the blogosphere who are trying to throw the two into the same religious pot.

Let me say first of all I think there's too much hysteria on the left about Palin's religious beliefs. And since I've been at pains to dispel malicious Internet rumors about Barack Obama - namely the lie that he's a Muslim - it's only fair that I do the same for Palin.


But Dear Cary McMullen, the two are not the same thing. Sarah Palin said in public that God led us into Iraq. That in itself deserves great scrutiny. The Obama is a Muslim is not legit, since we learned all about his church and Jeremiah Wright months ago. Be fair.

Bruce Wilson of the religious right watchdog group Talk2Action wrote an article, reprinted on the Huffington Post Web site, that raises questions about Palin because of some doctrines that might be associated with her former church of more than 20 years, Wasilla (Alaska) Assembly of God. Another just-released article, by Casey Sanchez of the Southern Poverty Law Center in that organization's magazine, Intelligence Report, makes similar claims.

..." Wilson and Sanchez claim the church is involved in a controversial Pentecostal movement called Third Wave and wonder (without giving any answers) how it might have influenced Palin. The history of this movement is complicated, but as I understand it, the term Third Wave was coined back in the 1980s by Pentecostal leader C. Peter Wagner. He was part of a group of leaders who came to the Florida Outpouring revival in June to give Bentley their blessing.

The movement is noted for pushing the envelope, and its teachings and leaders have at times been denounced by other Pentecostals. Among the marks of the Third Wave are practices such as emphasis on prophecy, faith healing and what some might regard as bizarre behavior - uncontrolled laughter, roaring, spasmodic twitching - which takes place, it is said, under the influence of the Holy Spirit. Some of those things were in evidence at the Florida Outpouring.

There are a number of loose associations - some of them very loose - with this movement. The one that alarms Wilson and Sanchez is something called "Joel's Army," an amorphous group that employs military images and terms in their practice of what is known as "spiritual warfare," namely the belief that supernatural forces of evil - demons and the like - must be fought with supernatural means such as prayer. They also engage in some culture-war issues like anti-homosexuality campaigns.


The column is worth reading, and most of the way he tries to be fair. But near the end he seems upset that anyone would insert dominionism into the fray...and his ending is not fair.

He says: "It's fair to ask what she believes, but anyone who starts hyperventilating about vague connections between Sarah Palin and Third Wavers like Todd Bentley should breathe into a paper bag for awhile."

He's wrong there. She is, as we say, a heartbeat away from the presidency, and we should all be hyperventilating since that day she said that our soldiers were on a mission from God

“that our leaders -- that our national leaders -- are sending soldiers out on a task that is from God.”

She added, “That's what we have to make sure that we are praying for: that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan.”


I imagine those bloggers from the two sites can stand up against Cary McMullen. I am quite sure they will. Perhaps they can ask Carey McMullen to view this video closely.

From Bruce Wilson about the video:

Sarah Palin was baptized at Wasilla Assembly of God and attended the church for over two and a half decades, and she has been publicly blessed by a number of pastors and religious leaders employed by and associated with that church.

Last Sunday our research team released a video, a ten-minute mini-documentary, focusing on the Wasilla Assemblies of God and the video seemed on the verge of a massive "viral" breakthrough when YouTube pulled it down, citing "inappropriate content".


The video was banned by You Tube, but it is up in another version at Talk2Action. Palin spoke there in that same church in June of this year. She was a member there for decades. The questioning needs to be done.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you're posting there, you could bring up this story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3493314

Palin credits the blessing of a witch-hunter with getting her elected. His 'spiritual warfare' consisted of stirring up hatred of a woman astrologer in Kenya, blaming her for causing car accidents by witchcraft, until a mob were calling for her to be stoned as a witch, and the police went in, shot her pet python, and arrested her (for nothing). She left, unsurprisingly, and they called that a 'victory'.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think that Muthee is the one in the video that is up at Talk2Action
Edited on Sat Sep-20-08 04:51 PM by madfloridian
the one I linked to near the end. Very scary video.

Yes...I checked..starts about 52 seconds in.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. If you missed the banned You Tube video...watch this one.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. New post up today at Talk2Left...about Bishop Muthee who anointed Palin.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/20/171755/145

"The information about Sarah Palin's anointing by Bishop Thomas Muthee was introduced on this site on September 5th, and in the related Bruce Wilson video. Muthee's testimony about transforming Kiambu, Kenya by driving out a witch, has now been picked up by press around the world including the London Times and Countdown by Keith Olbermann.

However, the most significant points of the story are being missed. This includes the impact on political policy of the 1999 video which originally featured the story. Some journalists have steered the emphasis on Palin's churches toward the denomination of the Assemblies of God and away from the Third Wave and New Apostolic Reformation. This is unfortunate as the significance of both Muthee and the other activities at Palin's churches is not about the Assemblies of God or speaking in tongues, but is sourced in the growth of an independent apostolic network that is being rapidly institutionalized worldwide. To understand the things going on in Palin's churches, attention should be turned toward the Third Wave and the New Apostolic Reformation.

..."Wasilla Assembly of God, where Sarah Palin attended until 2002 and continues to visit, and Juneau Christian Church, where Palin attends when in residence at the capital, have close links to major leadership and organizations in this movement. Ed Kalnins, seen in the above pictures with Thomas Muthee, is senior pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God. The books they are distributing are by Rick Joyner, founder of MorningStar Ministries, and John Bevere. Wasilla Assembly of God has very close ties with Morningstar and uses curriculum in their Master's Commission program produced by Morningstar's prophecy director, Steve Thompson, and curriculum by John Bevere."

Gets very involved.

Muthee appears in the video in OP
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-20-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oops, I meant Talk2Action instead.
I have no idea why I did that.

Glad to see they are continuing on this issue.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. Muthee is there this weekend. NOW. Freak out!
Edited on Sun Sep-21-08 10:01 AM by Dystopian
http://wasillaag.org/index.php?nid=3719&s=hm

The church also has a statement regarding Palin and a disclaimer about a pastor's sermon on voting for Kerry. They're rushing to clean out their act/attempt to explain as the church is getting much attention.
This is freaking me out big time....
:scared:
edit: Video back up on YouTube for five days, with only 289 views this time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkoRbtCqEY

peace~
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. So...You Tube put the video back up.
I am glad to see that.

So we have come so far as to have the religion editors defending political figures and pretending the ties are not there to such churches.

If she spoke there in June 2008...she most definitely knows what the church is about. She said it was the church in which she grew up.

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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes, but....
this video hasn't received many hits...I think it will be taken down soon...like the last one.
Fortunately someone was on the ball...I don't know how the poster was able to 'save' a YouTube video as I don't understand how it really works...But I'm glad it's back for as long as it lasts...
With all that's going down with our fascist government, I don't know if I'm overreacting to this, but she's driving me to distraction.
peace~
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Your sig pic made me laugh.
And after this week, that was welcome. So funny. Darn those rubic cubes, anyway.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Happy to make you laugh.....in these times : )
:hi:

Lately I feel like I AM that cat!

peace~
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NeoTheo Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. I've been wondering
"raises questions about Palin because of some doctrines that might be associated with her former church of more than 20 years, Wasilla (Alaska) Assembly of God".

When did this become here former church? The day McCain tapped her on the shoulder?
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Sarah Palin used AK tax dollars to fund dominionist churches"
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-21-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thanks for the link.
:hi:
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