you folks do get, that if the stock market crashes....

[1]

its not just brokers and the rich and pension funds that will get screwed, right?


if the stock market crashes, companies all across america will be wiped out. your job? gone. your paycheck? gone.

you folks get that's right?


i see some here cheering that on. i don't get that. this is not a good thing.

just so you know. the stock market is not just some rich guys making money. its your life too.


but you know that...

[ColbertWatcher]

1. "but you know that..." I'ts not a big sample, but ...

I posted a poll the other day asking "What impact does the stock market have on the lives of non-investors?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4015184&mesg_id=4015184

[1]

6. wow, cw. that is a scary poll. i guess most folks don't understand the stock market...

it appears most think the stock market is just something to do with their 401k, and the rich, and brokers.

if you work for a corporation, and most of you do, when the stock market crashes your company is no more. your job is gone. your paycheck is gone.

its not just brokers out of work. you are too.


be careful what you wish for...

[ColbertWatcher]

15. I usually start polls with the intent to start a conversation.

I know some people vote without commenting, which is fine.

But, I hope that some people do comment and discuss their opinions.

The day I posted that poll was Monday when I saw lots of people talking about the stock market in a weird way. I thought a poll asking about the stock market might start some interesting discussions.

Here is another one that you might find interesting too.

[ThomWV]

73. That is simply not true. The stock market is a secondary market

A stock's performance in the general market will certainly be an indicator of how it might fare if it decided to try to raise money by floating more stock but the rise and fall of a share price in the market has nothing at all to do with if a company will be able to stay in business or not. It is absurd to say it has a direct and implied immediate effect.

[flamingdem]

2. So what should we do about deposits and 401 Ks - seems nuts to liquidate

everything. What scenarios do you see? Bank runs, no more cash, no more anything?

[1]

7. no. its not like i have any advice. i was just seeing posts hoping for a crash...

a crash is not a good thing.

it doesn't just hurt the rich. it doesn't just hurt the brokers.

it hurts us all...



can't spell...

[Virginia Dare]

39. Since a crash is inevitable, I'm hoping for sooner rather than later..

I realize it hurts us all, but my attitude is the sooner we hit bottom, the sooner we can start putting the pieces back together again. The thing that makes me so blind angry is that if the mother fucking greedy republicans had just left FDR's protections in place, this would not have happened. They've worked for over 50 years to remove the New Deal, now we see where we are, right back at square one.

[Lance_Boyle]

57. A crash is NOT inevitable, and is a very different thing than a

correction. A correction is underway. A crash would make this correction look like sunshine and lollipops.

[girl gone mad]

9. Looks like today will see a bit of a rally, at least at the open.

If you need the money any time within the next few years, and particularly within the next couple of years, it may be a good opportunity to sell.

Consult with a good financial adviser, of course.

[1]

11. i know, its so weird. if you own gold what should you do?

sell.

the frightened would be tempted to buy.

finance is so topsy-turvy it is unreal...

[Daphne08]

3. Yes, we get it.

And I'm pacing the floor unable to sleep.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

4. "IF the stock market crashes"?

Not a question of "if", but when & how hard...IMHO. The fallout is a long way from being over, and as you pointed out in the OP, it will touch EVERYONE'S LIVES.

Not just here, but WORLDWIDE.

[JCMach1]

20. We are already sitting at a 25% drop for the year? How much more do you want to crash?

:(

[Earth Bound Misfit]

28. I don't WANT the market to crash any more than it already has

but it is what it is. The American people hear Merrill Lynch, Lehman Bros, Bear Stearns are failing-familiar names-...PANIC ensues. The crisis of confidence that follows will only worsen the damage.

The American public, in times like these, want STRONG, CONFIDENT, CAPABLE & DECISIVE leadership.

We have Commander A.W.O.L.

Who is, of course, A.W.O.L.

[JCMach1]

40. Asking a rhetorical question... and yes we have Commander AWOL

We have 0% leadership.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

41. Oopsie!

Not the "brightest bulb in chandelier" here.:silly:

Just heard that the Chimperor-in-Chief will address the nation this morning. No matter how much I despise this repugnant POS, and despite the fact that the mere sound of his voice sends me into a near-homicidal RAGE (well maybe not that extreme, but close), this is one address I will not miss.


:popcorn:

[liberalhistorian]

44. Oh, who fucking cares? He'll just say the same

disillusioned out-of-touch happy horseshit he and McSame have been braying lately. It's as if they think they can wave a magic wand and everything will be fine just 'cause they say it will. And they don't give a shit, anyway, they have enough personal wealth and resources to be able to deal with it and the hell with the rest of us. Who fucking cares what the fuck he has to say. I can't stand watching or listening to him anymore anyway.

[Earth Bound Misfit]

51. You're right...

WTF was I thinking? That Smirky McFlightsuit would have anything remotely substantial to say?
Silly me. "Improve INVESTOR confidence" seemed to be his main concern.


WHAT ABOUT ME YOU FUCKING THIEVING SACK OF SHIT, WHAT ABOUT IMPROVING "HARD WORKING, TAXPAYING CITIZENS'" CONFIDENCE.

[liberalhistorian]

52. To be fair, investor confidence has a LOT to do

with how the stock market goes, and how the stock market goes is how the rest of us go. Investor confidence is the backbone of the stock market and the financial sector.

But yeah, the rest of us count just as much, too, and all his happy horseshit doesn't begin to acknowledge that. You'd think he and his family would understand that, given that Poppy's very aloofness and out-of-touch indifference is what cost him the '92 election.

[JCMach1]

53. Things are fine... BS BS... sound economic standing... God bless us

9/11

:grr:

[radfringe]

5. a few numbers

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow 10,578.24
Nasdaq 2,757.91
S&P 1,342.90

CLOSING BELL - September 18, 2008
DOW 10,609.66
Nasdaq 2,098.85
S&P 1,156.39

Spread:
DOW + 31.42
Nasdaq -659.06
S&P -186.51

[liberalpress]

29. Stagnant

eight years and essentially no stock movement.

[radfringe]

31. as of closing yesterday - yes, stagnant, but

today, bush and the repubs start digging the hole "higher".. :smirk:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. But kapitalism is teh eeevil! n/t

[Dover]

10. The economy will collapse whether people cheer or cry...n/t

[adamuu]

21. heheh. n/t

[dipsydoodle]

12. And what's appears to have been the greatest contibutory root cause ?

The aggregate effect of halfwits spending their future now by remortaging their properties to release equity.

So - maybe those who lose their jobs and their homes simply need to look at some of the folk around and wonder who's who that selfishly contributed to stuffing them.

The overall reason for the outcome is the long outstanding almost complete lack of regulation within the finance industry but neither party seems to be doing a whole lot about it.

There is something really perverse about the fact that the well being world's economy seems to hinge around the well being of the US housing market.

[1]

13. well yes, and as much as we would love to "cluck" about that at our parties...

"There is something really perverse about the fact that the well being world's economy seems to hinge around the well being of the US housing market."

that is exactly the kind of thing that controls/drives the world's economy.

love it, hate it, perverse or unfortunate...



this is the world. this is economics. this is what it is...

[dipsydoodle]

17. I understand what you mean

From past experience your housing situation will resolve itself when the all important first time buyers are able to buy again . Shouldn't take more than about 5 years.

[Trekologer]

32. Not much argument here

The aggregate effect of halfwits spending their future now by remortaging their properties to release equity.

I can't argue with that. Using your house as an ATM machine to "cash out" equity for anything other than improving the property is just stupid. Car, big screen TV, even paying down credit card debt are things that I don't believe is smart using a home equity load for. Its betting that you'll be able to sell the property for significantly more down the road. Funding renovations, additions, etc to the property should be fine as doing so is adding value to the property which should be able to be recovered when the property is sold.

So - maybe those who lose their jobs and their homes simply need to look at some of the folk around and wonder who's who that selfishly contributed to stuffing them.

Homeowners who overextended their credit (mortages and credit cards) are partially to blame. But so are lenders who gave loans without first performing the due dilligance to make sure that the borrower could pay back and lenders who convinced borrowers to take bad loans when they could have qualified for much better ones. Then the investment banks levereged too much so that when some mortgage-backed instruments became worthless along with an accross-the-board deline in value of others, they were left holding the bag.

The overall reason for the outcome is the long outstanding almost complete lack of regulation within the finance industry but neither party seems to be doing a whole lot about it.

Yes. But given recent history (25 years or so) which party is more likely to be the ones to provide the regulation and oversight needed to prevent this from occurring again? Hint: the answer is not the Republicans.

There is something really perverse about the fact that the well being world's economy seems to hinge around the well being of the US housing market.

Its not really hard to see why this is the case. The world's economy hinges around the US economy. Our economy revolves around real estate. The most valuable asset that the average American owns is their house. How many Americans' retirement plans are to sell their house, move into a lower-cost house, condo, or apartment and live off of the difference, social security, and whatever savings they collected over the years?

[Indenturedebtor]

38. Most of those "halfwits" did so because wages weren't keeping up with inflation

That's the ultimate root cause. The skewed distribution of wealth.

[and-justice-for-all]

14. I am sure they know the consequences of a crash...

but it is the idea of wiping the slate clean and starting anew that I think they applaud.

[skooooo]

22. "wiping the slate clean.."

...means catastrophe for the poorest and least protected among us, imo.

[and-justice-for-all]

23. No one said it would be pretty...nt

[obamaforme]

16. Whatever money I have I 'll put under my matress.

[JTFrog]

35. If we hit a full on depression, your money will be worthless.

You better hide your gold and other commodities under your mattress.

[skooooo]

18. agree....the gleefulness on the part of some is just stupid nt

[liberalhistorian]

46. Not to mention ignorant and selfish

and against their own interests, now and in the future.

If you're not far from retirement and your pensions are wiped out, you're screwed. And good luck even finding a job, even if you aren't almost at retirement age when it's hard to get hired.

[Love Bug]

19. No cheering from me

My employer has been in financial trouble for quite some time and all of these failures mean there is less investment money to be had. I am a bit worried about what might happen to my job. I've been there for 20 years and really don't want to start over anywhere else.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. With these "bailouts," are significant numbers of jobs being saved?

Or is it the upper echelon being saved in these companies?

[RebelOne]

25. I'm not cheering. I have retirement money at stake. n/t

[Blarch]

26. I want the country to reap what it sows.

why should it be any other way ? If the country collapses, I will just take what I need from whom ever I want...I will probably leave a pile of bodies behind me.

In a democracy, the people get the government that they deserve.

[shanti]

34. nice

:(

[liberalhistorian]

48. Wow. What a piece

of work. Do you realize you sound just like the fatcats and freepers you so disdain? Pure ignorant selfish thoughtlessness.

[Raine]

77. Jesus Christ ... "I will just take what I need from whom ever I want

I will probably leave a pile of bodies behind me" :wtf:

are sure you're not a republican cause that seems to be the way they do business. :-(

[Turbineguy]

27. The only people who benefit from a stockmarket crash

are Palin's "This World Has Nothing For Me" friends.

[harun]

30. All companies are not in trouble. The Financial/Insurance sector

is. There are good companies in that sector that were responsible like Wells Fargo that are doing just fine. They will be the winners because they made wise courageous (at the time) decisions not to make a huge risky bet on crazy high interest loans to people who couldn't pay them back.

Agriculture, pharmaceuticals, technology, energy, metals and many other sectors are all fine. If the stock market loses 20 even 30 % from this it doesn't mean the end of life as we know it. People are investing in a piece of paper (a stock) that is risky. It is not guaranteed. Stuff like this happens when a country is run by criminals.

[RobofSWVA]

33. we're sorting out good from bad

and the government needs to stop trying to save the bad. Fannie and Freddie was one thing (GSE), AIG (PRIVATE), that's something else. I really do think AIG should have been allowed to fail and the stronger companies given the chance to cannibalize the good parts.

There are insurance companies and banks who are going to feel some of this simply because they're in the market but who will actually come out stronger because they didn't take an unnecessary amount of risk. My company (large mutual insurer) still has billions in cash reserves because they look long term for investments. That's the benefit of not answering to stock holders :) I know there are others out there in the same situation as us because they also don't rush from one get rich quick idea to the next.

The point I'm trying to make is the situation sucks but it's not 100% doom and gloom. Now I do think we've gone beyond trimming the fat and things are going to stay ugly for a while.

[SmokingJacket]

36. I thought this would happen 3 or 4 years ago.

I put most of my money in CDs.
I sold my over-valued house and bought some land and livestock.
Do I WANT the market to crash? Of course not. My husband will probably lose most of his retirement fund. Our new place will lose value. I will likely lose one or both of my jobs.

But my feeling is that things were unsustainable for SO LONG, that a correction is overdue and might set things on a saner path. After an incredibly painful shakeup, maybe the huge disparity between the rich and poor will finally be addressed. Maybe the necessity for national health care will become apparent.

Then again, maybe not. :shrug:

[Jim__]

37. The mess in the financial sector means the stock market is going to drop.

Better now than after Nov 4.

Suppose the current quarter trillion dollar infusion of cash stops the fall. Do you think the problem has been solved? No. Only postponed.

The underlying problems need to be addressed. McCain will only make things worse.

[liberalhistorian]

42. Exactly, thank you. And that is

what is so frightening about it all.

I think a lot of the frustration people feel is more emotional than rational, and I understand that 'cause I share it. The same fatcats and congress critters who demand personal responsibility and "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" from the rest of us, and who eschew and disdain any kind of social welfare or assistance at all, and who love to trumpet the virtues of deregulation and the "free market" and "letting the free market work", are the same fuckers who have their hands out whining for "handouts" from the very federal government they so disdain, which will be paid for from the very taxes they disdain, and they're only in trouble in the first place from their own incompetence, mismanagement and unbridled greed and lack of principles. Privatizing the profit and socializing the risk, is what it gets down to. You want to just shake them, and those in the government providing the "handouts", and ask why they aren't practicing what they're preaching and why they aren't letting the "free market" work the way they always demand for others.

However, as you say, it ain't just them going down. And, in fact, as usual, their workers, and not the executives themeselves, are the ones who'll really suffer since the fatcats will get their multimillion dollar payouts. Excuse me, handouts. For doing nothing but driving their companies into the ground. Where's that "merit pay" they so demand for so many others, including teachers like my parents?

It's the rest of us who'll suffer, in almost every way you can think of and not just in terms of destroyed pensions/retirements/stock portfolios. Those who are currently retired, or nearing retirement, will fare the worst, I'm afraid; like my retired parents living on their pensions. And my dad and stepmom have considerable assets in the stock market that are now on their way to being destroyed. And these people worked hard all of their lives. Where is THEIR "bailout?" Those of us who still have a ways to go to retirement will probably fare a bit better, as we have more of an opportunity to try to build our retirement and investments back up a bit.

[leftofthedial]

43. what job? what paycheck?

starting over would be hard, but probably better in the long run as long as idiot Amurkans didn't just put their faith right back in the same criminal system.

[mmonk]

45. Some here don't grasp it.

[Redbear]

47. The market has needed a serious correction for a long time.

It has been built on lies and puffery. The longer we have put it off, the worse the problem has become.

My fear was that it would all come tumbling down next spring just as what I hope will be a Democratic president attempts to turn around all the horrible things the Republicans have done.

[Lyric]

49. There's nothing that most of us can do about that.

Some of us don't own any houses, have any investments, or have any savings. We're pretty much at the mercy of whatever happens, and there isn't shit that we can do about it. The one bright spot is that at least we won't be the ONLY ones suffering, for once. When you've spent your life under The Man's boot, you can't help but laugh a little when The Man gets stepped on himself. Sure, you're still just as smothered as ever, but it makes you feel a little better to know that the person who's slowly asphyxiating YOU is having some trouble breathing himself. It's human nature. When you can't do anything else, and you're fucked either way, you might as well laugh.

[L0oniX]

50. My house is paid off and I have a lot of food and water stored up and plenty of ammo.

I am ready for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Yep, why I do get it why they are bailing out some companies

AIG comes to mind


But you are right, many folks don't get it, how a crash on WS affects THEM

[Liberalynn]

55. Don't Get Me Wrong. I don't want the Stock Market to Crash.

That really would be stupid. The only silver lining I see though in this crisis is that maybe America will finally wake up and actually vote on issues, and not who they want to have a beer with, or who they think is pretty, or who the likes of the late Jerry Fallwell would have wanted them to vote for. Maybe they will start using their common sense again. Maybe once and for all we can quit living in the Ronnie fantasy land of "trickle down economics."

That's the only good that I see might, and I use the term might, deliberately, come out of this. The War should have woke the voters up and it did some but not enough. Maybe in terms of the rest who've stayed asleep, a good wallup in the wallet might actually knock some sense into them too.

One can hope that a miracle happens and this all comes out all right for everyone, but when and if it does, I just hope people won't quickly forget how close we came to the brink, and what and who exactly brought us to the edge.

[stranger81]

56. and I assume you get that, if they bleed the taxpayers dry to prop up Wall Street,

then we're STILL SCREWED. Comprende?

[nichomachus]

58. The only thing I'm cheering about

is that it's happening now -- and not next March or April

What we're seeing is inevitable -- but had it been delayed (as they were trying to do) for another six months, they would have blamed it on Obama. Now, Bush owns it.

But, we're not near to "crash" yet. In 1987, the market took a big hit -- to take the same hit today would mean a drop of $3,500 in one day.

Then, you'll hear some screaming.

[LaurenG]

62. I disagree, I think we are much nearer. I worry it'll be next month

when it all falls down. When congress is adjourning because they "don't know what else to do" (per Harry Reid) then you know there is trouble and I fear it's closer than we think.

edited for typo

[nichomachus]

64. I think they're built in a braking system now

If the market even goes anywhere near that figure -- they will just suspend trading. Psychologically, that will be very bad, but they won't allow a meltdown -- at least not in one day.

[LaurenG]

76. I hope you're correct - I rather like your thought on this

mine are depressing. :(

[the other one]

59. It means we all get bailed out.

It means we will have to scrap the system and replace it with a another more equitable system.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

60. No, they folks you're addressing are emotionally malformed mental infants

They do not get" anything.

They are the DU version of fundies praying for the rapture.

[alarimer]

61. But it's all the fault of rich, greedy assholes (and their Dem and Repub) enablers

trying to get rich by sending jobs overseas and by fleecing working people.

[codjh9]

63. Yes, it's a hell of a lot of my money too, dammit... of course I get it (anger isn't

at you, but at the fools that are at fault in this situation).

[Bluebear]

65. Who is "cheering it on", oh casual watcher?

[SCBeeland]

66. If America is to ever permanently undo the damage done by Ayn Rand,

and her dangerous religion of greed, which has been the foundation of the U.S. for decades, something very bad, like a stock market crash, will have to happen. Sure, it'll be bad for awhile, but things always get better after the worst happens.

[dgibby]

67. I have a question

I'm retired military and, in addition to my retired pay, I draw Social Security. What happens to those pensions when the markets crash and the gov't goes even more broke than it is now? What happened to vets during the Great Depression? I know this may sound like a silly question, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else. Thanks in advance.:shrug:

[onethatcares]

68. they lived in Hooverville, and he sicced the cops on them

and the military too.

[Evoman]

69. Okay...but what about if we think long term? Are there any benefits to this long term?

Will it inspire social programs and reforms to the economic system?

I for one am not liking this...it's sure as hell not going to help me find a job now that I've just graduated from University. I hope that something good comes of it, because it's sure going to suck for me.

[fascisthunter]

70. ...and you wonder why we're so "bitter"

[Bonobo]

71. Ha ha ha.

"just so you know. the stock market is not just some rich guys making money. its your life too."

Yeah, right. You have no idea what you're talking about. As for us poor folk paying for it too, I got some news for you: We have been in the shit for years now and we are happy to have a little company with our misery.

We can survive. Now we can also enjoy sharing a little misery with the "money brokers".

You sound defensive and sweaty. I'm sorry if you are taking a clobbering with your "portfolio". As for me, I can't afford to get an x-ray for my injured ankle or have my teeth fixed. So excuse me for some long overdue schadenfreude.

[nini]

72. I was thinking about posting something similar

and I'm glad you did.

I have saved for years to get the little nest egg I have. I certainly do not want to lose everything because the uber rich needs a smackdown. The entire economy will be shattered not just the wall street fat cats. I was raised by a depression baby and I guarantee those who think we need another one there is no way we need to go there.

[katty]

74. Geo Bailey's x-mas nightmare: Pottersville, USA

[Geek_Girl]

75. Not mine I work for a federal Agency that provides power to the entire South east

If my job and my co-workers jobs are gone then guess what the lights go out and then we're talking end times for the US