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How Much Evidence Do they Need Before Congress Begins to Remove the Cancer on Our Nation?

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:33 PM
Original message
How Much Evidence Do they Need Before Congress Begins to Remove the Cancer on Our Nation?
Whether one believes that the U.S. Congress should proceed directly to the impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney for their numerous crimes against the American people and our Constitution, or whether one believes that they should first formally investigate the Bush/Cheney crimes, it is important to ask how much evidence is needed before they ought to feel obligated to proceed with impeachment hearings.

A tremendous amount of damning evidence was already publicly available before the Democrats took over Congress this January, and Congressional investigations have turned up additional evidence since then. It seems to me that there is plenty more than enough evidence at this time to proceed with impeachment. In this post I briefly discuss eight areas of enquiry into impeachable offenses, any one of which, in my opinion, has turned up more than enough evidence to proceed with impeachment (Since I didnt want to set a record for the longest DU post ever, I had to leave a great many impeachable offenses out of this post):


Covering up global warming

Recent Congressional investigations into global warming have shown what we have known at least since NASAs top climate scientist, Dr. James Hansen, went public in January 2006 with claims that the Bush administration was trying to silence him. An account of the recent investigations concluded:

The Bush administration has consistently misled the public about the threat of global warming, said scientists who testified yesterday before a US House committee hearing into political interference with climate change science

As one of several examples:

Dr Drew Shindell, a researcher at NASAs Goddard Institute for Space Studies for 12 years, testified that his press releases about the findings of climate change studies had been delayed, altered and watered down. He cited one example where a study explained that Antarctica would warm considerably over the next century, based on projections of continued greenhouse gas emissions, which had clear implications for rising sea levels. He said the original press release had been softened to the extent that it raised almost no interest and delayed the studys entry into the wider public discussion regarding the scientific understanding of global warming

Yet, we see a very familiar pattern emerging with respect to investigations into crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration:

The White Houses refusal to hand over documents requested by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform has also raised a recurring issue attending federal investigations into the Bush administration


Waste and fraud by Bush administration contractors to reconstruct Iraq

The vast scope of waste and fraud perpetrated on Iraq by the Bush/Cheney administrations no-bid contractors has been known at least since October 2003, when it was reported that billions of dollars allocated to Halliburton went missing.

Recent Congressional investigations continue to document such problems. As noted by a former intern working for another Bush/Cheney contractor, the Lincoln Group:

Stacks of cash, some filling entire transport crates, are pictured alongside grinning contractors in Iraq. The images have been made public today in a report for a congressional oversight committee, chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., which is investigating financial improprieties in the Iraq war. While American taxpayers see grinning contractors who are well paid by badly regulated contracts, Iraqi citizens see foreigners living in luxurious compounds while they struggle without regular electricity.

What was all this money for?

The Lincoln Group was paid tens of millions of dollars for covertly planting stories written by American soldiers in Iraqi newspapers, and the stacks of cash were necessary to pay off newspaper editors, television executives and security guards around Baghdad.

And in testimony reported by the Guardian regarding another $12 billion:

The US flew nearly $12 billion in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent. The staggering scale of the biggest transfer of cash in the history of the Federal Reserve has been graphically laid bare by a US congressional committee.

However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money They are Iraqi funds. Bremer's financial adviser, retired Admiral David Oliver, is even more direct Asked what had happened to the $8.8 billion he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."

Doesnt this just make you hate those ungrateful Iraqis for wanting us out of their country?


Presidential signing statements

George Bushs use of Presidential signing statements to avoid enforcing laws that contradict his ideology has been known for a long time. That well known bastion of liberal ideology :sarcasm:, the American Bar Association, said in July 2006 that Bushs use of the signing statements undermine the separation of powers provided in our Constitution. And House Judiciary Chairman, Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), said regarding his recent Congressional investigation into this issue:

Bush's widespread use of the signings challenge at least 800 provisions in laws passed while he has been in office The administration has engaged in these practices under a veil of secrecy This is a constitutional issue that no self-respecting federal legislature should tolerate.


Grossly negligent medical care provided to veterans at Walter Reed Veterans Hospital

The scandal at Walter Reed Hospital is being investigated by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), Chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Waxman tried to:

ask Maj. Gen. George W. Weightman about a contract to manage the medical center awarded to a company (a Halliburton subsidiary) that had documented troubles fulfilling a government contract to deliver ice to victims of Hurricane Katrina

According to a letter from Waxman to Weightman posted on the committee's Web site, the chairman believes the Walter Reed contract may have pushed dozens of health care workers to leave jobs at the troubled medical center, which he says in turn threatened the quality of care for hundreds of military personnel receiving treatment there

Waxman charged that the Army used an unusual process to award a five-year, $120 million contract to manage the center to a company owned by a former executive of Halliburton, the scandal-prone government contractor once operated by Vice President Dick Cheney.

However, once again we see the Bush administration trying to obstruct the investigations:

The Pentagon has refused to allow Weightman to testify. Waxman's staff has confirmed the congressman planned to issue his first subpoena as a committee chairman this session to legally compel Weightman's testimony if the Pentagon did not relent.

And worse yet, Weightman was discharged from his post, the same fate meted out to so many other whistle blowers or potential whistle blowers who had damaging information to report about the Bush administration.


Fired federal prosecutors

Congressional investigation into the apparent political firing of several federal prosecutors is heating up:

Democrats are in an uproar over the firings and are looking into whether the Justice Department was trying to stall ongoing corruption cases involving Republican politicians, particularly when Republican corruption figured into the partys election losses. Democrats say the dismissals appear to be based on politics since most of the fired prosecutors apparently had good job evaluations.

This administration either originally hired incompetent attorneys in the first place, or hired competent U.S. attorneys, but incompetently fired them, said Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. Given the performance reviews of these U.S. attorneys - proving them to be leaders in prosecuting violent criminals, illegal immigrants and officials who violated the public trust - it appears they were fired for purely political reasons.

And indeed, the testimony of the prosecutors has served to justify those suspicions:

Six fired U.S. attorneys testified on Capitol Hill yesterday that they had separately been the target of complaints, improper telephone calls and thinly veiled threats from a high-ranking Justice Department official or members of Congress, both before and after they were abruptly removed from their jobs.

In back-to-back hearings in the Senate and House, former U.S. attorney David C. Iglesias of New Mexico and five other former prosecutors recounted specific instances in which some said they felt pressured by Republicans on corruption cases and one said a Justice Department official warned him to keep quiet or face retaliation.


Torture and other abuse of the human rights of Bush administration prisoners

The Bush administrations abuse and torture of its prisoners has been known since shortly after the opening of its prison camp at Guantanamo Bay. In Rep. John Conyers 2006 investigative report, The Constitution in Crisis The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, Cover-ups in the Iraq War, and Illegal Domestic Surveillance, Conyers found:

that the Bush administration has not only countenanced but has also paved the way for torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and other violations of international treaties

The U.S. militarys own investigation, by Major General Antonio Taguba found at Abu Ghraib:

numerous instances of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees. This systemic and illegal abuse was perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence The report details punching, slapping and kicking detainees, rape, use of military dogs to intimidate detainees

Conyers also goes on to detail descriptions of torture from numerous human rights organizations, including Human Rights First, the ACLU, Amnesty International and the International Red Cross. Conyers report continues

Human Rights First has uncovered at least 16 detainee deaths in Iraq that the military itself has found to be homicides Many of those victims were found to have been tortured to death.

The ACLU has used Freedom of Information Act requests to collect thousands of pages of internal documents, confirming the physical and sexual abuse of detainees by military personnel in Iraq and elsewhere

Amnesty International has reported that acts of torture have not only occurred at detention sites but also continue to be perpetrated against Iraqis during house raids and arrests

After detailing numerous other atrocities, Conyers report then notes that the Bush administration has totally failed to hold any upper level personnel accountable for any of them, and that the Bush Justice Department has condoned torture by creating a definition of torture that is exceptionally restrictive and contrary to international law.

Recent Congressional investigations have found that:

the ACLU released a CIA letter confirming the existence of a directive signed by President Bush granting the CIA the authority to set up detention facilities outside the United States and outlining interrogation methods that may be used against detainees. This confirms a May 2004 e-mail from the FBIs On Scene Commander in Baghdad stating that U.S. military officials in Iraq assured him that a secret presidential Executive Order permitted using extreme interrogation techniques considered illegal by the FBI

But once again we see the same obstructionist pattern by the Bush regime:

The Justice Department has so far blocked release of the actual document, but a federal judge may force the feds to cough it up. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), the incoming chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, is also demanding to see the document. If this Bush letter does hit the streets, it may be akin to a 1972 memo from Richard Nixon specifying the exact methods of lock-picking the Watergate burglars should use. Bushs involvement in the torture scandal may be far deeper than Nixons involvement in Watergate.


Illegal warrantless wiretapping/spying on American citizens

The Center for Constitutional Rights, among other organizations, has urged in their book, Articles of Impeachment against George W. Bush, that George Bush be impeached for, among other things:

.... authorizing the National Security Agency and various other agencies within the intelligence community to conduct electronic surveillance outside of the statutes Congress has prescribed as the exclusive means for such surveillance, and to use such information for purposes unknown but unrelated to any lawful function of his office; he has also concealed the existence of this unlawful program of electronic surveillance from Congress, the press, and the public

This crime should hardly need any investigation at all, given that Bush has publicly admitted to it numerous times. But he claims a good reason for doing it. His excuse has been (like his excuse for every other law that he breaks) that he needs to bypass the request for a warrant in his efforts to spy on American citizens so that he can act quickly enough to catch terrorists. However, given that the current law allows the warrant to be requested retroactively, that explanation makes no sense. Therefore, the only plausible conclusion is that the purpose of much of his spying activities is so unrelated to a legitimate function of government that even the conservative FISA judges wouldnt approve them.

As explained here:

This program was not intended to catch terrorists - it was intended to give the White House access, invisibly, to information about private citizens which it wouldnt otherwise be allowed to have The goals of this program are political. Theres just no other plausible reason to conduct the program this way.

Further evidence for that conclusion is provided by accounts from knowledgeable sources, who note that of the thousands of warrantless wiretaps conducted annually by the Bush administration, fewer than ten have aroused enough suspicious during warrantless eavesdropping to justify interception of their domestic calls.


Lying to the American public about the reasons for war and perpetrating war against international law

Of all the crimes that George Bush and Dick Cheney ought to be prosecuted for, let alone impeached for, dragging our country into war with Iraq by lying to Congress and the American people about the need for that war, heads the top of the list. The evidence that Bush and Cheney lied to the American public and to Congress in order to justify that war is overwhelming, and has been abundantly documented. Many of George Bushs assertions made to justify the war were known on the basis of publicly available knowledge to be false at the time he made them.

Furthermore, this issue is thoroughly covered in Rep. Conyers investigative report, in which he concludes:

The report finds there is substantial evidence the President, the Vice President and other high ranking members of the Bush Administration misled Congress and the American people The Report concludes that a number of these actions amount to prima facie evidence that federal criminal laws have been violated The Report also concludes that these charges clearly rise to the level of impeachable conduct.

If any additional investigation is needed to make the case that Bush and Cheney committed impeachable offenses in lying us into war, it seems that all that should require is a gathering and presentation to the American people of available evidence.


So how much longer should Congress wait?

This administration needs to be impeached and removed from office far more than any other in the history of our country. Bush and Cheney use presidential privileges as if they were their God given right, for their own pleasure and entertainment and accumulation of power and wealth, with no feeling of obligation whatsoever to be held accountable by ordinary American citizens for their actions. Quite simply they believe and act as if they are above the laws of our nation. Even if they were 100% innocent of all the charges described in this post, they should still be impeached for subverting the Separation of Powers mandated in our Constitution by refusing to cooperate with Congressional investigations. The claim of Executive Privilege is meant to be reserved for issues that impinge on national security, not for preventing Congress and the American people from knowing what the Executive Branch does in their name.

Glenn Greenwald explains why the U.S. Senate has been so slow to move thus far:

Senators, including large numbers of Democratic Senators, remain petrified of challenging the President in any meaningful way on national security issues generally
There have been two principal reasons the Bush administration has been able to break the law with impunity and to continue to govern with no accountability (1) a listless and compliant press which has done very little to reveal and make Americans aware of the true nature and extent of these abuses, and (2) the administration's obsessive maintenance of a wall of secrecy which has concealed its behavior from the public and thus prevented the public (and the media) from really understanding what their Government has been doing.

Most important:

You can't convince Americans of the need to stop abuses until you demonstrate to them in a dramatic and undeniable way that those abuses are being perpetrated and that they are harmful and dangerous what we urgently need are compelled, subpoena-driven, aggressive hearings designed for maximum revelation and drama. Hearings are able, in a dramatic and television-news-friendly environment, to shed light on how extreme and radical this administration really has been in all of these areas. Democrats in Congress need to realize right now that the administration will not produce or disclose any meaningful evidence unless and until they are truly forced to do so.

The choice is not whether to provoke a constitutional crisis. The real choice is whether to recognize that we have one and to act to end it, or continue to pretend that it does not exist by acquiescing to the President's ongoing abuses and fundamental encroachments into every area Democrats have to internalize that this administration does not operate like previous ones. No rational person can doubt that they are limitless in their contempt for legal restrictions or notions of checks and balances.

And televised, highly publicized confrontations over the administration's hubris and arrogance and utter contempt for our legal institutions and political traditions is not something to be avoided. It is something we desperately need as a country

I believe that Greenwald hit the nail on the head. The corporate news media is not on our side, and it never has been. But when people watch hearings on TV they can judge matters for themselves. Even with the corporate news media covering up for Bush and Cheney for six years, still most Americans are in favor of impeachment hearings. After a few weeks of TV coverage of hearings into the many crimes of the Bush/Cheney administration, public outrage will mount so high that the American people will demand that they be removed from office. What better way to ensure full public airing of those crimes than to begin impeachment hearings? It seems to me that the evidence against Bush and Cheney is now so overwhelming that not to aggressively pursue impeachment would be a grand dereliction of Congresss responsibility to the American people.
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Indeed
K&R
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. What bush and cheney have done is horrible but
you have to have proof. Real evidence. Not just the consequences. We are closer to having proof about cheney than bush.

I read somewhere that giving the state of the union address is the same as swearing under oath what you say is true. When bush told the country about the weapons of mass destruction and Saddam wanting to buy nuclear material is a lie. If they could prove beyond a doubt that he knew it, which we all know he did, then that would be one thing right there.

As much as I wish we could throw both of them out tomorrow, bush is just rushing around destroying the constitution because he knows there is no definite proof to impeach him under.

I think that congress should start right now tomorrow, investigating this administration and getting the proof so they can put both of them in jail. Impeachment in itself is not enough. I want the proof of breaking the law and put their asses in jail.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Two things
First, you don't need proof before starting impeachment hearings. The purpose of an impeachment hearing is to determine whether or not enough evidence exists to hold a trial in the Senate. But I will grant that it is best that we feel fairly confident that the proof exists before going for impeachment.

But can you explain why you feel that proof doesn't exist for any of the eight impeachable offenses that I describe in this post?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. De Nile ain't just a river anymore...
K&R!!!
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
36. But the head of the CIA took the fall personally for that one.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Evidence, the American people don't want to be confused by facts...
....They just want to know if Dubya got a blow job or not in the Oval office. Otherwise, move on there is nothing of concern in the presidency.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Impeachment is the only way there will be a full public airing.
That's why I'm not confident in the future if there isn't going to be an impeachment inquiry.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. k&r
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's just so unbelievable-it's beyond me. Perhaps the congress is hell shocked.
Thanks, TFC, and now we hear Halliburton is moving HQ to Dubai. Do you think the rats (with billions in tow) will start jumping ship to avoid justice? The $64,000 question is will it be Paraguay or Dubai? My choice is the Hague.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
32. I keep hoping that even though the ball (impeachment) is "off the table"
that while the investigations are going on they are keeping their eye on it, ready to put it right back "on the table" where it belongs as soon as they feel that the evidence has reached a critical mass where it would be politically acceptable to do that. But it's hard sometimes not to believe that they have no intention of putting it back on the table no matter what.

Hague would be my first choice for Halliburton too, but as long as we get rid of Bush/Cheney I'd be willing to give them a free pass to heaven in return.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's metastasized.
That ain't good.
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ithinkmyliverhurts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Must wait until 85% of Americans believe it is so.
And Bill O' endorses it.

A pox everywhere.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Have No Fear!!! The Battlin' Congressional Dems Have Your Back!!!
They'll stop at nothing in their unrelenting pursuit of the truth.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Not.

(Well, Waxman, Conyers, and a few other non-triangulators will.)
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. What People REALLY need to know is here -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Bush1 and Dick Cheney started privatizing the US military back in 1991. That privatization of logistics has led to tragedies like the USS Cole bombing, the gouging for basic needs for our soldiers, the loss of billions of our tax dollars in Iraq, and the breakdown of services at Walter Reed.


Now we hear that Halliburton is moving their HQ from Houston to Dubai. Once there, the global fascism will take hold firmer and stronger than at any other point we have witnessed in the past.

And the US will be left bankrupt and broken in too many areas to get it fixed in any expedient way.

No financial problems for the incredibly FLUSH global corporations who have been lining their pockets at our expense for the last twenty years, though.

Want to bet that Halliburton and Bechtel will have Blackwater and other private armies at their disposal while our military struggles to recoup?

We have GOT to stop Halliburton's move of all their documents and paperwork.

Contact Waxman and Congress about Halliburton. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ...

We cannot let them get away with BANKRUPTING America while BANKROLLING New World Order.

Even the RW and the Freepers will have to notice this.

It's in the Sept 11 dungeon....Can't recommend. :cry:
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. My heart is broken, for I have feared this exact scenario for too long.
The Bush family has been behind the ruination of this country for nearly a century. Bush1 really got the ball rolling & now sonny is nailing the coffin shut. They (& their cohorts) are all traitors & thieves.
:cry:
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. They are indeed traitors and thieves, but it CAN be stopped!
Get on the horn to your REP's.....NOW!!!!!!
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Been there, done that!
It is our best & only recourse now. Thankfully, mine's a Dem! :pals:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
44. Fascism is becoming a way of life in this country -- although most people won't call it that
Corporate lobbyists are allowed to write legislation in return for mega-corporate donations, and then we can't even get access to the meetings. That's outrageous. Congress must take a firm stand against this kind of thing, and all the Bush/Cheney crimes that have been perpetrated on the American people in the past 6 years.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
67. A new meme for 2008!
George Bush Republicans: BANKRUPTING America while BANKROLLING New World Order!!
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush and company deserve impeachment and removal. (However)
Edited on Sun Mar-11-07 11:07 PM by gordianot
They control the Courts who made a mockery of the law before they were installed.
They do not believe in the Constitution.
They do not accept the rule of law (signing statements).
They have embraced torture of those they declare enemies.
Someone in this country mailed weapons grade anthrax to the Democratic opposition.
Massive detention facilities are being built in this country for unknown purposes.
The Attorney General of the United States denies "Habeas Corpus".
The Vice President of the United States is widely believed to have established a "shadow government".
The news media in this country seems to have become propaganda media or just merely entertainment.

As much as I would love to see them impeached and removed; the attempt to impeach and remove them will most probably show the world how far we have descended from being a Republic. As far as impeachement goes in the words of the current White House occupant "Bring it on."

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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. The lack of impeachment proceedings tells the world how far we've descended
...and me, too. I will never again look on my country with pride until this contemptible crew are brought to account, I don't care what other "good" the Dems do.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. The world already knows how much our country has descended from being a Republic
Sitting still and not doing anything to fight back or make amends for what our country has become will not cause the world to think better of uf. To the contrary.

If we remove those criminals from office that will be a great start towards regaining our international reputation. And even if we try and fail, that will at least make the world think better of us than if we sit back and don't try.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Exactly.
"And even if we try and fail, that will at least make the world think better of us than if we sit back and don't try."

I think some of them fear an attempt with failure will seal the deal. But the deal will also be sealed if they don't try, and at least if they try there is the possibility of victory.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
57. I think that those people have it totally wrong
Why would people think that a failed effort to remove Bush and Cheney would hurt Democrats politically? I don't believe there is any evidence for that whatsoever. To the contrary, impeachment hearings will expose to the American public shocking abuses of power that many Americans are only partially aware of. Republican Senators will vote against conviction only at great risk to their political futures. If impeachment did fail, I believe it would still be a great political victory for the Democratic Party, just for having put forth a valiant effort.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Sadly, these are all true. I can't stop weeping
for the lose of our Liberty & Justice. This was all very well planned out for a very long time. While the good people worked away to make this a great nation, these wealthy, do-nothing-constructive punks plotted their coup d'etat. We will truly be their slaves. Maybe we should take notes from the French Revolution. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Starfury Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just think - this is only the tip of the iceberg
This is what we know without serious investigations - the scary part is trying to imagine what's left to discover.... :scared:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. Yes indeed -- there is a lot more
These are the worst criminals -- perhaps the only ones -- to ever gain the presidency of this country.

And just think -- they needed a great big assist from the corporate media and the USSC to pull it off.
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padia Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think it is how much
evidence but whether or not we can get 67 senators to vote the rat bastards out. The last thing we need is a failed attempt & give the freepers & repugs a chance to spin it into something about we can't lead or whatever. There is also a ton of work that does need to be done that could get put on the back burner another thing to spin about misguided Dems.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. I think it's better that our Congress worry more about doing the right thing than
how someone might spin it if they do.

Where would we be if nobody ever did anything because they were afraid that they might fail?

Many of the American people don't know what's going on because they don't pay attention. Impeachment hearings will force them to pay attention, and many will become outraged when they learn what Bush Co has been doing in their name. We'll never know if we can get the 67 votes until we try. When the American people learn what's going on, they may very well pressure their Senators to vote for conviction or else face the consequences. That's essentially what happened to Nixon, which is why he resigned.

If we do try and fail, then so be it. Even then I believe that the Democratic Party will be more respected for having at least tried.
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padia Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
64. I agree that you never know
what you can do till you try & I would hate to see apathy because we were afraid. I like the fact that Waxman is sending subpoenas every time *'s foot hits the ground. Because the remaining 30% have almost 1/2 the Senate & that is probably the best way to educate them, along with the Plame/Wilson suit. I guess the other question is can it happen fast enough & we need a synchronized exit of both Dick & * else whys were screwed. As for the respect issue rank & file repugs believe that if you won't fight for yourself how can I trust you to fight for me. Also if they are not paying attention now I'm not sure that they will call their senators IMO.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yes, pray tell WHEN???
The desecration of our nation by this mob has gone on for far too long. Please, Please, Congress, get rid of these goons! Our lives really do depend on it!
:banghead:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. URLinked: Mar. 11 Daily Impeachment News:
Mar. 11 Daily Impeachment News: post high crimes and misdemeanor news here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This thread is an idea being tested.
If the DU Community wants to have a daily thread like this,
it will be obvious by your PARTICIPATION.
POST links to DU discussions, web articles....
VOTE for this thread by participating.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. Done
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. URLinked: Mar. 12 Daily Impeachment News:
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Great stuff! Add to the fact that Halliburton is moving to Dubai and that should seal it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
55. Thank you. Yes, there's plenty more than enough evidence
Congress now needs the political will and courage to do something about this.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. I htink they are too frightened to
maybe a member of congress coulld offer an explanation
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
56. Yeah, it appears so
I wonder what they're so frightened of. Is it just the political consequences, or is it something more serious. Sometimes investigators meet with tragic fates:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. Our history, while prescribing impeachment, also knows
the failure to use the remedy.

Two hundred years of history have a lot of muscle, no matter how well they've corrupted the institutions.

I bet on the Constitution and the American people, and against the current crop of hucksters.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. The current crop of hucksters
Our Founding Fathers are probably rolling over in their graves over what's going on now. It's been bad before, but never THIS bad.

They gave us the impeachment clause, and the American people are plenty ready to use it. I don't know why our Congress is so far behind. Could they really be that scared of Bush/Cheney?
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. Dare I Simply Say... TALK IS CHEAP??
IMO, we are so far past the time where TALK has become meaningless. To those in power, talk is nothing more than a little gnat buzzing around until it gets smacked down. Tolerate it just long enough and you can either ignore it or KILL it!

I commend you for your post, but until SOMETHING HAPPENS, it's still nothing more than TALK!!

Unfortunately, most of us can't get off this emotional roller coaster and end up feeling more and more frustrated and depressed as time goes by. I could be wrong, but just "talking" to my friends an neighbors it seems more and more are saying the same things... AND YET... we seem to just keep TALKING!

And no, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER OR A SOLUTION! I have actually begun to think that I just want out, zap me and get it over with because it's almost too much anymore, and I feel so very very HOPELESS!

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
60. Don't underestimate the power of talking or writing
If the American people let enough Congresspersons know how they feel about this, there will eventually be change.

All we can do is keep on trying to do our best. As long as we can do that, we still have hope.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. All the evidence in the world is meaningless if the Congress is unwilling to act.
And I believe there are quite a few people on "our" side who are in up to their eyeballs in this corruption and are unwilling to stop it because it would go against their personal interests. Look to those who won't vote for it despite the overwhelming evidence and you'll have the culprits.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
33. The problem is that Dick is still in his pants.
If Dick falls out where everyone can see, Bush's impeachment will soon follow.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Which Dick are you referring to?
Anyhow, we shouldn't have to wait for that. There are plenty of other things that people can and do get concerned about. We just need to publicize those things, and I can't think of a better way to do it than impeachment hearings.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
34. kick
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
37. Years ago when I was a kid I thought politicians were elected because they were the smartest
and most honest people around. But growing up and learning the truth showed something quite to the contrary. There have been people executed on little flimsy hearsay evidence. But when politicians say there is little evidence in the face of a mountain of evidence; to proceed against Bush and Cheney I see an infamous conspiracy across our whole political spectrum on both sides of the isle. And ya know what? One of them is going to be elected as president in 2008, and 95 percent of them are going to be reelected to Congress because the majority of Americans refuse to wake up. In addition I think if the Democratic controlled Congress doesnt take the ball and the lead too do everything humanly possible to remove these tyrants from office, even if they fail. Third parties are going to be looking really good to a lot of people, because its becoming more and more apparent that the two parties we have are so far out of touch with the rest of the world and We the People. It wont matter who wins, if there is going to be no justice, we all lose!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
61. That's absolutely right
The plain fact of the matter is that the American people are substantially ahead of Congress on this issue. We have to lead the way by letting them know how we feel about it. If they feel enough pressure from the people they will be led to do the right thing.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R. (nt)
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Evidence is useless w/o courage. n/t
n/t
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
43. Attn: Congress - You are either WITH US, the PEOPLE, or you are WITH THE BUSHES
It's time for honest people to choose sides. Whose side are you on? If you won't fight the Bushes then we must conclude you are with them. You are complicit.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
62. Yeah, that's the way that I often feel about it.
It seems that Congresspersons who cared about their country and their fellow citizens would be finding a way to remove these criminals from office.

But they're scared, I believe, and that prevents them from seeing clearly.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
45. I am forwarding this to all I know-------and to my Congresscritters! THAnKS
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ends_dont_justify Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
46. If they got clinton on lying about a sexual scandal
There's far more they can get bush on. What's the hold up?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. The hold up
In my opinion they're "playing it safe" -- see post # 48. I think it's terrible that they're doing that, because they're allowing a precedent to be set that will very likely lead us into tyrrany (we're already teetering on the edge).

A big problem is the corporate news media. Dems are scared that they will get lambasted by the corporate news media if they do anything to rock the boat. They may very well be right about that. But these are desperate times IMO, and they need to do what they were elected to do -- uphold the rule of law and our Constitution. The American people will be behind them if they do.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. Contact the House Speaker here:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. Evidence isn't lacking - the political will to impeach is.
It's much "safer" to let Shrub and Shotgun bungle along so that they look bad than remove them. "Practical Politics" and all the usual rationales for not doing their job.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid you may be right
It's depressing to think that the Congresspersons whom we elect to represent us, even many of the Democratic ones, think so little of their responsibilities that their top priority is playing it safe and getting elected. I keep on hoping that a critical mass will step forward and do something, but I'm losing hope.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. I'm beginning to agree
When Cafferty said he got NO emails in support of Gonzales - well that says something. The scandals this year alone are enough to impeach over.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. it's not about evidence or reason or laws as we understand them
our government is now nearly 100% comprised of agents of the plutocracy

their job is not to "govern," it is to preserve and promote the status quo.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
52. Media keeps trying to tell us what we should think about, but they're losing
the battle for hearts and minds. More of us are getting our news from the internet, and forming our own opinions. Remember how surprised teevee was that 2006 exit polls showed corruption as the most important issue? 42% said the were worried about how CORRUPT our government is, despite media not having hyped this as an issue. Same is now true for impeachment. The media can ignore it, but the people are talking about it.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/07/exit-polls-corrupti...
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I believe that that's the one big shining light for us
I think that the reason that the Dems in Congress are so afraid to proceed with impeachment -- even though they must know that it's the right thing to do -- is that they believe, correctly, that the corporate media will be all over them if they go for impeachment. They'll say it's for political reasons, they'll say it's irresponsible, yada yada yada.

Some day they need to realize that they have to take the media on -- that they MUST do so in order to serve their constituents, and that they CAN do so because as you say the media is losing their power over the rest of us. They had a great deal of influence, they abused it, and now they're going to have to pay the price.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
58. Add negligence in Katrina response.
:kick:

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Yes, definitely
That alone provides plenty of grounds for impeachment.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
63. I think impeachment is insufficient. The Repubs made it so hollow with
their irrational, hatred-driven pursuit of Bill Clinton, and if Chimpy and Cheney the Dick are impeached, the Repubs will just holler that the evil lib'ruls are tryin' to get even.

It's time to try the bastards for TREASON. They have trashed the Constitution they swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend. They are unelected and illegitimate. They are a disgrace to the offices they hold, to our nation, and to the world. They must be held accountable.
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padia Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-12-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. treason punishable by death
I like it no matter how the cookie crumbles we can pursue that in 22 months any time before that requires a successful impeachment. plus the best part of executing the rat bastards is 20 years from now we won't spend millions of dollars dragging their corpse around telling people how great he was.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I myself am not a fan of the death penalty; I think it's too good for these
scum, personally. I want to see them live the rest of their sorry lives in disgrace in prison, REAL prison, freeze all their assets and make 'em work for $.17 an hour like all the other convicts.
Wonder if Chimpy could put food on his family for that much.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-13-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Yes, I agree that they should be tried for treason, however
that is not something that Congress can do. All Congress can do is impeach, so they need to proceed with that. The most important thing is to get rid of them and send a message that the President and his cronies are not above the law.

Trial for treason can come later, if some prosecutor is willing to take it up.
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