Mother and daughter enjoying some fresh kill

[seemslikeadream]

Looks like this one won't make the wall



Photo from AP Photo
1 day ago: This undated photo provided by the Heath family shows Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin with one of her daughters posing with the caribou she shot in Alaska. Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., announced Palin as his vice presidential running mate on Friday, Aug. 29, 2008.

[undeterred]

1. Is that road kill or hunting?

[WindRiverMan]

191. You guys need to understand

that this is ALASKA, and for all of the reasons Palin won't work in the lower 48, YOU don't understand Alaska. Lots of people in Alaska still depend on their gill nets, set nets, and hunting skills for their meat. In lots of places up there THEY HAVE TO, there are NO STORES! That caribou was eaten, it is a cow (cows have antlers too). You cannot understand Alaska if you have never lived there.

[undeterred]

200. I'm still trying to get used to Wisconsin.

[Critters2]

316. There are no stores in Wisconsin? When did they close?

I visited both a Piggly Wiggly and a Pik'n'Save in July. Right there in Wisconsin. Hell, I even went to a bookstore. And a movin' picture show.

[natrat]

228. sure whatever dude-you are on track to kill it all within our lifetimes-hope your proud of that

[Matariki]

243. delete.

accidental duplicate.

[Matariki]

245. Don't be foolish and rude. WindRiverMan is make a perfectly valid point

I suppose you want Inuit to subsist on lichen as well.

This is a dumb thread if it's intent is to 'demonize' Palin fir hunting in Alaska. There a actual *valid* reasons to criticize her.

[orleans]

303. i understand what you're saying, however...palin is NOT inuit

she's not in some lonesome area of the state where there are no stores, she's not dependant on that animal for survival (as others might be--matter of fact, she is taking away from others what they might actually need), she's the freaking governor of the state and well, her shooting at animals in the snow and dragging her kid with her and posing and holding up the head of a bleeding animal to show off is just kind of ... creepy

[roguevalley]

253. imagine a place with nothing in it, trees, jobs, even much of a human

presence. Imagine a place where you live that has no sanitation and you put your poo into a lagoon. Imagine that lagoon leaks and you have tainted water, imagine hep c and TB and all the like. Think about having winters so harsh you go out to your peril and imagine having to live there without a lot of help or any at all because you have for 10K years.

People who live there depend on SUBSISTENCE to survive. They fish and hunt and harvest berries and whatever. Then they hunker down and wait until spring and do it again. Everything they need is brought in and the freight will KILL you. The chieftains said it costs 2100 a month to heat the houses. There are no roads. Mail and such are dropped out of airplanes to you at intervals. This is life for a lot of people here.

Try it.

[MullenBank]

319. PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.

It's you're not your.

Can't. Stop. Myself.

[Judi Lynn]

333. Take the time to send posters a p.m.. No reason to attempt to ridicule them publicly. n/t

[madeline_con]

302. Like Palin can't get to the grocery store.

I understand Native Alaskans, but she has no reason to shoot an animal unless it's attacking her child.

[orleans]

304. see my post 303. n/t

[JVS]

311. Actually we don't need to understand, and we should cash in on the fact that many in the lower 48...

won't understand.

[Kitty Herder]

335. So, do you live in Alaska or Wyoming? nt

[Midlodemocrat]

2. My God, she is nauseating.

:puke:

[arthritisR_US]

108. I have the same reaction as you. She's totally revolting to me. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

237. Yep. She makes this woman sick as well.

x(

[robinlynne]

307. absolutely disgusting. This is worse than killing a child, or equal to.

[JANdad]

340. ummmm.....

Not even close to human life my freind...it's an animal...eom

[reggie the dog]

347. you are out of line

sure my father killed babies in Vietnam, his orders were to burn villages and kill all inhabitants, sorry, communists. But he is not a baby killer for hunting wild game.

[sandnsea]

3. Why wouldn't it?

Honestly, these pictures appeal to rural people. The more opposition there is to them, the more rural people decide they don't relate to Democrats at all. Not protecting the polar bears and the salmon habitat is what to go after. Skip attacking hunting.

[lligrd]

7. Hmm, Slavery Use To Appeal To Some People Too nt

[sandnsea]

18. If we have to rely on vegans

to get elected, we may as well pack it in right now.

[BlooInBloo]

54. Thank gawd we don't rely on vegetarians for fucking anything.

[cliffordu]

187. Yep.

[yewberry]

330. Gee, thanks, that's nice.

Did a vegetarian kick sand in your face at the beach or something?

And that's reason to be nasty to others because...?

[SOS]

198. Darn right!

Except for these unreliable losers, vegetarians have added nothing to the world.

Louisa May Alcott
Clara Barton
Charles Darwin
Leonardo da Vinci
Thomas Edison
Albert Einstein
Ben Franklin
Mahatma Gandhi
Bob Marley
John Milton
Sir Isaac Newton
Plato
Plutarch
Pythagoras
Albert Schweitzer
George Bernard Shaw
Percey Bysshe Shelley
Upton Sinclair
Isaac Bashevis Singer
Socrates
Leo Tolstoy
Vincent Van Gogh
Voltaire
HG Wells

[The Straight Story]

206. How many of them were elected

:)

[LeftyMom]

214. Dennis Kucinich

And as far as unelected but politically influential people go, the late Mrs. King was a vegan.

[flvegan]

274. Wait, you mean the only congressperson with a fucking spine?

The impeachment guy? The peace guy? The guy that here, on DU, won just about every primary poll, fundraising race gimmick, caters to almost every single belief we have here? That fucking guy?

[LeftyMom]

282. I know. As a vegan, I'm deeply ashamed to be in such company.

:rofl:

[yewberry]

329. Thank gawd we can rely on you to attack people you don't fucking know.

And for no fucking reason.

[ChazII]

49. It still does

since slavery still exists.:evilfrown:

As far as the picture ... food for a family for awile.

[BlooInBloo]

53. To liken hunting to slavery is fucking pathetic.... And I'm neither a hunter nor black.

[lligrd]

85. I Didn't Liken Slavery To Hunting

You seem to take things out of context quite often.

[BlooInBloo]

87. Yah you did.

[cliffordu]

188. Yap, ya did, yer betcha...

[Tallison]

313. If people are going to rationalize a behavior that inflicts suffering...

they need to do better than play the tradition card, so your point above is spot-on. Come on, folks, we're progressives here!

[RoyGBiv]

331. Uh, yes, you did n/t

[Matariki]

246. You're comparing hunting to slavery? You've got to be kidding?

That's just wrong.

[lligrd]

252. Yeah, That Was Exactly My Point - Slavery = Hunting

:sarcasm:

[FVZA_Colonel]

325. Given what you posted, what were we supposed to think?

[lligrd]

327. That Just Because Some People Think Something Is Okay

doesn't mean it is. I thought it was pretty clear/

[lligrd]

328. Delete - Dupe

[krispos42]

283. Not a valid comparison

A caribou is not a person and never will be.

[roody]

57. Does she eat the meat or is this just for fun?

[sandnsea]

63. Did you not see the "Miss Moose Burger" threads?

They eat the meat. Almost all rural people do. What they don't eat goes to the food bank. Shooting wolves from planes is a legitimate line of attack. Not protecting the polar bears and salmon is a legitimate line of attack. Attacking hunting is just stupid.

[RTFirefly]

155. I agree.

Don't go after the hunting, outside of the aerial wolf hunting. I know a lot of hunters that find that grotesque.

Totally go after the polar bear endangered species business.

[alarimer]

235. I agree. The anti-hunting stuff is going to turn off rural voters.

The complete lack of environmental protection and pro-big oil are legitimate lines of attack. The anti-hunting business is part of why Republicans can paint Democrats as elitist and out of touch.

[madeline_con]

306. I own firearms, but I don't murder animals. n/t

[krispos42]

286. Holy shit

I agree with you.

:thumbsup:

[elshiva]

337. If they give it to a food bank, that's pretty cool.

I volunteered at a Food Pantry in rural Maryland. They had a big freezer and some of the food was deer meat from the local hunters. Whoever donated that gets my respect. I've never eaten deer, but my mom says it tastes a lot like beef.


buffy/

[Ex Lurker]

336. it's almost as if DU is a Karl Rove false flag operation

GOP operatives are probably even now printing out this thread to show to swing voters.

[lligrd]

4. Disgusting nt

[sharesunited]

5. Cross post to the Guns forum, where killing is always popular.

[krispos42]

287. Only violent aggressors n/t

[Sanity Claws]

6. Swollen Udder

Does anyone know enough about Caribou to know whether that was a lactating female? That udder looks large to me.
If that was a lactating female, Palin killed two, the cow and the calf, with one shot.

[thestrugglecontinues]

59. I think the rack he's wearing means its a male

Don't think females have those antlers.

[Arctic Dave]

129. Caribou is on of the few mammals were the

male and the female both have antlers. To tell them apart you need to look between the legs.

[undeterred]

197. We don't have those in Wisconsin.

Thank goodness.

[Arctic Dave]

218. We have them all over Alaska. To say you hunt caribou

is about one step above hunting cows. They are not very smart animals.

[KoKo]

305. You mean they just stand there watching you as you shoot them...

I find it disgusting...but then I find all our animal processing disgusting...and I'm not a vegan. I just wonder if she skins and dresses the meat and really cooks it. WHERE EVER does she find all this time? She's truly a "SuperWoman" since she fired the Governor's chef preferring to cook her own...

Or...she's a fake and just loves to KILL for the THRILL of it. I'll go with the second...it's the "thrill" that she gets off on. Looking at her parent's house with the dead animals filling up one whole wall...(we didn't get to see the rest of the walls or rooms) they seem to be obsessed with Trophy's.

It's one thing to kill to eat ...it's another to stuff it and look at the fake glass eyed products of taxidermy day after day...night after night...

[cobalt1999]

8. So what? She hunts, big deal

So does he...

[High Plains]

9. Ya know, there are lots of hunters in this country.

While this photo may disturb some urban liberals who were never voting for Palin anyway, that's about all it will do.

Okay, I get it: Some of us hate hunting. But many other people like hunting. And the vast majority probably doesn't even think about it.

[seemslikeadream]

12. She is PRO-LIFE

That's the problem end of story!!

[High Plains]

16. Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to attack Palin.

Being a hunter probably isn't one that is going to resonate with a whole lot of people.

[dchill]

117. She is Pro-Republican-Life...

That carcass could just as easily be a Democrat. If she was hungry, of course - nobody likes killing for "sport." Right?

[Sebastian Doyle]

264. Apparently, she's not

She's pro-fetus. But she's also pro-war, pro-death penalty, and apparently pro-killing an animal for whatever fucking reason you feel is necessary. Which is more an indictment of her views on polar bears and wolves than it is moose and caribou.

But she clearly is NOT pro life by any reasonable definition of the term.

[hootinholler]

46. Yep. There are quite a few of us hunters on teh underground. n/t

[Lorien]

136. There are lots of animal lovers too-including some of my repug coworkers

who are going to be emailed this photo.

[roguevalley]

254. use it. I hate hunting too but what can you do. Without subsistence

the bush would die.

[ClayZ]

10. Yuck! Ewwww! I just hate that photo!

K and R

[liberalmuse]

11. She kind of reminds me of Katherine Knight.

Tough woman, indeed. Killing helpless animals for sport, or to prove how tough she is. Fuck her.

[WA98296]

13. That is sick. Killing for sport, something is just wrong with that.

[High Plains]

19. Hell, maybe they had caribou steak and sausage all winter.

Is something wrong with that?

[EFerrari]

27. Yeah. Maybe she carried it home on her back, too. n/t

[nolabels]

50. If she had done it the thing in with her bare hands i might be impressed

but most any numb-nuts can be brave with a finger on the trigger.

[arthritisR_US]

118. exactly, true sport would be a bow and arrow, IMO. n/t

[bagimin]

322. Thats how I was brought up too.

Bow and arrow = sport. Guns, not so much.

[arthritisR_US]

323. I was brought up the same.

[krispos42]

290. If you want a humane kill...

Then the hunter needs a weapon that delivers the maximum energy to the target.

States have minimum power levels and bullet calibers for long gun and handgun hunting, but there are no maximums.

Common wisdom is to shoot as much rifle as you can comfortably and accurately shoot because a) making an animal needlessly suffer is unethical, b) chasing a wounded animal for hours is a pain in the ass, and c) losing a wounded animal is really unethical.

I don't know what she's shooting, but it's probably a .277 caliber, a 7mm caliber, or a .30 caliber, either of which is pretty powerful for a woman of her size to shoot AND delivers a lot of down-range energy, so it is perfectly acceptable for caribou.

[HamdenRice]

341. That's kind of silly when you think of it

And I'm not posting this as pro or anti hunting, nor am I aiming this at you.

But it seems silly for a state to have minimum caliber requirements if it also allows bow hunting.

Are there any bow hunting states that also have minimum caliber requirements?

[krispos42]

344. Bow hunters typically have their own seasons

And often they have bowhunting-only areas as well, such as near or in cities and towns.


South Dakota I know has minimum-energy requirements (1,000 foot-pounds from a long gun) and also allows bow hunting. They also have separate rules and seasons for muzzle-loaders.

[HamdenRice]

345. So why only require gun hunters to be "uncruel"?

If the caliber requirements are to ensure a clean, humane kill, why allow bow hunting at all?

From what I've seen and read, most bow hunters do things like belly shots or leg shots and then track the poor beast for hours by its blood trail.

Why allow them to be cruel?

[krispos42]

346. Can't answer that one

I've never done it nor seen it done.

[Olney Blue]

14. I trust that PETA will not be endorsing her.

[Marr]

15. What's wrong with responsible hunting?

This is really a needless division. There are plenty of Democrats who hunt, fish, etc.

Talk about how bad she's been for the salmon and other wildlife and they'll join you. Complain about hunting and you'll only drive them off.

[seabeyond]

40. we are allowed to play on du too, ya know. i have a post below

starting with eeeew.

i personally dont like to see dead things.

i also have hubby and son that hunts....

not against you all. i think i am a pretty good sport i make myself eat it with a kinda smile, wink

there is nothing wrong with responsible hunting. even good things about it

[Marr]

51. Oh, I understand it's not for everybody.

I actually have quite an aversion to killing things, myself. I hate it, in fact. I try to be as humane as possible, but I don't know... I feel like we're a natural part of the landscape and, if we're hungry, it's normal to eat some other natural part of the landscape.

[magellan]

56. I wish someone would draw me a chart

...so I'd know when I can be offended without offending anyone else.

[Marr]

78. Off hand I'd say "never".

Especially among a group like this, that's bound to contain more independent thinkers than average.

But I'm just being pragmatic. I think this is a poor thing to push if you're trying to win an election. Who cares if I'm offended? You can't go through life just trying not to offend people.

[NNN0LHI]

17. Did she and her daughter Field Dress (gut) the animal together after she shot it?

Shooting them is the easy part.

Don

Here is how it is done: (Warning strong stomach required but a very appropriate sound track is included with the blood and gore)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKm42ql7NSw

[EFerrari]

26. Sure. Then she made the bladder into a balloon for her kid.

Nothing says down to earth Republican competence like creationist women posing with bloody dead animals.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. I know I shouldn't laugh

but I can't help it.

You my friend have a way with words indeed. :toast:

[EFerrari]

133. You remember that Charles Ingalls made the pig's bladder into a balloon

for Laura in LHITBW?

Without a camera crew!

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

147. Pa also called the Indians "savages"

And the Little House books are continually on banned books list because of that.

Just a bit of trivia for you. Since this thread is pretty insane anyway. :hi:

[EFerrari]

153. Yeah, he did, that's right! You remember more than I do.

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

175. I have a college degreee in Little House

And back when we still got to teach instead of test, I read those books to my class every year. :)

[EFerrari]

185. I loved that series. Don't know how many times I read it.

All the step by step descriptions FASCINATED me. Bullets, maple sugar syrup, running up a dress, building the dugout, putting in GLASS windows, the ice house in Farmer Boy. Finding the Indian beads, twisting straw.

Remember the feather coming loose from the bonnet during the courting ride? I probably learned to sew and cook because she made it sound like engineering. (My mom, who didn't do either, liked that part, lol.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. Even boys love those books

I finally got smart and started reading just certain chapters to my kids. I found all the ones about hunting and read them and the ones about Christmas, etc.

They really are great books.

[LanternWaste]

20. I imagine there is a particular demographic

I imagine there is a particular demographic that gets enjoyment from consciously killing animals-- but I'm glad I don't know any of them personally...

[LeftyMom]

24. Sociopaths.

That's the demographic that kills for fun.

[katandmoon]

66. Perfect description

She got OFF on pumping lead into a living, breathing, sentient creature.
She didn't need to. She didn't need to kill it for food or for clothing or for self-defense.
She killed it because she enjoys the act killing.
And she's teaching her kids to do the same.

What a sick, fucking, disgusting bitch.

[seemslikeadream]

75. All in the name of PRO-LIFE

[closeupready]

183. Yep. Pro-domination is more what they are all about.

:mad:

[SOS]

208. Pro-life....

The homeless freeze to death in the streets
Soldiers die in an unnecessary war
Thousands of Iraqi civilians killed
Death penalty
Death from untreated health problems, no insurance
Shooting animals for pleasure and entertainment
Drowning in New Orleans
130 falsely sentenced to death row and later released for factual innocence
Utter neglect of the AIDS crisis under Reagan
and on and on.....

Only the human fetus matters to them.
It's really a death cult.

[JohnnyLib2]

45. I was born into a family of hunters (in a western state).

It wasn't for me, and I left it all behind with no regrets. But, most of them are 'good people' in the larger sense. The remaining hunters work within relevant regulations.

As to the "sociopath" comment below, please travel some, get exposure to others' lives.

[EFerrari]

68. But of all the things those good people would like to see in a photo op,

do you think this is the one? That's the real question here, isn't it?

[JohnnyLib2]

121. As far as I can tell,

it would be fairly routine in my home state, Nevada, and almost certainly in Alaska. Probably MT, ID, WY, and more as well.

You evidently don't like it. I REALLY don't like the frequent photos of proud children (yes, children) and their "kills" in our Kentucky newspaper.

I've said it in several places: VOTE 'ER DOWN!

[wtmusic]

21. Maybe she did it while in labor then got on a plane for 8 hours!

I'll believe anything.

[notadmblnd]

22. I don't know much about hunting, but I do know you aim for the chest not the neck

that animal must have died a painful death.

[seemslikeadream]

25. Nothing a good taxidermist can't reconstruct

I hear she has one on call

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. I don't like her. Not at all.

:puke:

[sandnsea]

65. Then you don't know anything about hunting

You aim for the head and only aim for the chest if you're a bad shot. It ruins too much meat. Then you slit the throat to bleed it, which is probably the blood you're seeing. And I don't hunt at all.

[notadmblnd]

289. I'm sure I don't

But I just love it when other people tell me what I don't know.

Where to Aim

Broadside:
Bow - Broadside game represents the best bow shot because it requires the least amount of penetration to reach the vital organs, which is especially important in large big game animals. The broadside shot is also the best single angle for accomplishing a double-lung hit, resulting in the collapse of both lungs. Find the best aiming point on a deer or other hooved big game by picking a spot halfway up the side of the animal and about a hand’s width behind the hollow of the shoulder. Or, in your mind’s eye, eliminate the head, neck and tail. Then, divide the animal equally both vertically and horizontally. Hold on the spot where these imaginary lines cross, then aim about six inches forward. This is called the “cross hairs” method of picking a spot. Both methods will help you put an arrow in the center of the vital area by enabling you to pick a spot rather than shooting at the whole animal. Remember, an arrow will penetrate the ribs, but be careful to avoid the shoulder bone. Wait until the near leg is forward and concentrate on a spot behind the shoulder. Avoid head and neck shots when bowhunting. The brain and spine are small targets protected by heavy bone. The only artery of any size in the neck is the carotid artery (which in a deer is only the size of your bowstring). Wait for the chest shot behind the shoulder!
Gun - The broadside position offers several excellent shots for a firearm hunter. The best target is the shoulder and chest area. A bullet of the correct weight and fired from a firearm adequate for the game being hunted will break the shoulder and enter the lungs or heart. A head or neck shot will drop an animal instantly with no meat damage, but should only be used if you are proficient enough with your firearm.

http://huntingarticles.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/making-that-perfect-shot-when-hunting-deer/

[carguy67]

96. Say what?

The only people who shoot for the chest are those that do not have a neck or head shot or can not make the shot.

If you shoot it in the neck or head it falls down dead... no pain no suffering. Lung & heart shots the animal runs around until it bleeds out.

As for the rest of you all talking about people getting off on hunting and being psycos... IDK even what to say. If you don't like or agree with something that is fine but to say the things about people who do is ignorant.

If you are city raised and have never hunted, seen a gun, etc then you do not understand how rural life can be.

[200overcast]

149. They don't know the first fucking thing about it EXCEPT they REALLY HATE IT.

:eyes: :shrug:

[carguy67]

154. I'd like

To know how many of them do not consume any products or food that contain animals or have cost animal lives... Most are hypocritical, think that if the blood never touches their hands they are not "animal killers".

[200overcast]

164. Not even 1 percent of those who -claim- they don't.

Guaranteed.

[notadmblnd]

292. I did preface my remark with "I don't know much"

but I never said anything about people that hunt being psycho. So you can take that rant to someone else.

I posted this in response to another so I'll not post the link since it's farther down thread. but you can read this also...

Where to Aim

Broadside:
Bow - Broadside game represents the best bow shot because it requires the least amount of penetration to reach the vital organs, which is especially important in large big game animals. The broadside shot is also the best single angle for accomplishing a double-lung hit, resulting in the collapse of both lungs. Find the best aiming point on a deer or other hooved big game by picking a spot halfway up the side of the animal and about a hand’s width behind the hollow of the shoulder. Or, in your mind’s eye, eliminate the head, neck and tail. Then, divide the animal equally both vertically and horizontally. Hold on the spot where these imaginary lines cross, then aim about six inches forward. This is called the “cross hairs” method of picking a spot. Both methods will help you put an arrow in the center of the vital area by enabling you to pick a spot rather than shooting at the whole animal. Remember, an arrow will penetrate the ribs, but be careful to avoid the shoulder bone. Wait until the near leg is forward and concentrate on a spot behind the shoulder. Avoid head and neck shots when bowhunting. The brain and spine are small targets protected by heavy bone. The only artery of any size in the neck is the carotid artery (which in a deer is only the size of your bowstring). Wait for the chest shot behind the shoulder!

Gun - The broadside position offers several excellent shots for a firearm hunter. The best target is the shoulder and chest area. A bullet of the correct weight and fired from a firearm adequate for the game being hunted will break the shoulder and enter the lungs or heart. A head or neck shot will drop an animal instantly with no meat damage, but should only be used if you are proficient enough with your firearm.

[krispos42]

291. Some do aim for the neck

If conditions are right. Hitting the carotic artery or the jugular vein, or the spinal cord, is more effective than a heart/lung chest shot.

But they are much smaller targets, so it's not usually done unless you're fairly close.

[notadmblnd]

295. Thank you for telling me that politely

I know what I was taught and perhaps my mentor was trying to give me a larger target.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Why doesn't she just rip it's throut out with her teeth to really impress the kid?

[cobalt1999]

28. Someone explain to me why that riles people up more than these...

Kerry

Clinton

Carter

Truman

even FDR Possum hunting

[seemslikeadream]

30. They don't go around saying they are PRO-LIFE

[sattahipdeep]

33. seemslikeadream

:applause:

[seemslikeadream]

42. I like to enjoy my animals still able to breathe

and kiss :hug:

[cobalt1999]

38. You and everyone here knows pro-life means anti-abortion.

Not anti-hunting.

[EFerrari]

44. This isn't hunting. This is posing.

And why are you using the Republican definition of "pro-life"?

[cobalt1999]

55. I'm just saying I don't see anyone calling those Democrats sociopaths.

[EFerrari]

58. I've never met a Democrat that had an abortion for a photo op.

Eta: I guess this picture is disgusting to me because it is staged, not because it's hunting. I get that people hunt and that's their choice. Staging a death scene for promo is something else, imo.

[krispos42]

294. Pro-life is wordsmithing and framing for 'anti-abortion'

Not shorthand for "pro-living-things".

[NNN0LHI]

32. Easy one

No children involved with the slaughter.

Don

[cobalt1999]

41. In most rural places, children come along.

I hunted with my dad from 4th grade on.

I don't hunt now, but for many people hunting is a family thing.

[NNN0LHI]

47. What were you thinking the first time he gutted a large animal in front of you?

How did it make you feel seeing all the blood and guts?

Gives me the willies to think about it.

And why did you give it up?

Don

[Marr]

61. I can't speak for cobalt, but as for myself-

I was just trying to keep up with what he was telling me. My own dad was very respectful of wildlife and talked about not inflicting unnecessary suffering and how to make the most of the animal. I don't think he ever flat-out said it, but it was always implied that killing something without a purpose is profane.

So-- just like most things when you're a kid. There was little value judgement (if any). Mostly just absorbing things.

[cobalt1999]

64. Good answer & my dad was similiar.

I probably had my first understanding of why we need to protect the environment while hunting.

[cobalt1999]

62. Too many things available that I enjoy more than hunting.

I have no moral problem with going hunting, and if an interesting opportunity arose, I could be talked into a trip. However, there are too many things I like to do besides hunting.

Growing up, it wasn't something that grossed me out. It was more like scientific curiosity about what's on the inside.

[roguevalley]

257. my dad hunted to feed us. when it didn't matter, he quit. he hated

it all along but he did it. hunting is declining or so a newspaper story said. I think in time it will be either a hugely expensive thing or almost not done.

[slackmaster]

251. That's going to leave a mark

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

29. Has anybody in this thread decided to vote against her because of that photo?

I didn't think so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. No. But, it certainly is a good reason to.

[benld74]

48. NOPE, she has thousands of other reasons not to vote for her period!

[EFerrari]

52. Oil be seeing you in all the familiar places

Republicans love dead animals and their fossil remains. What's the problem?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

89. Don't you get it SHE'S PRO-LIFE...............

END OF STORY


WHAT'S PRO-LIFE ABOUT THIS

[slackmaster]

249. That's got absolutely nothing to do with being pro-life or not

It's just a rifle, configured to shoot beams of light rather than live ammunition.

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. Disgusting!

:puke:

[cabbage08]

34. K&R

[Wednesdays]

35. I have no problem with the hunting part

Heck, lots of people I know hunt regularly. What bothers me is that she dragged the kid along. Aren't there some minimum age and/or safety concerns involved here? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

39. Maybe it's Take you Daughter to Dead Animal Day.

The kid looks so happy, too.

[sandnsea]

67. Huh? Why would that bother you?

Hunting is a family activity. Just like kids on farms see chickens necks broken and cows slaughtered.

[EFerrari]

69. Yeah, when we lived on the ranch, I used to wake my kids up

and say, "Hurry up! We're going to break chicken necks today! Last one dressed has to toss the barn!"

lol

[sandnsea]

139. Who says that's what she did

That's a pretty crazy comparison. No good comes from attacking people for lifestyle differences that don't make a hill of beans difference to you.

[XOKCowboy]

179. My grandmother used a coat hanger bent with a hook on the end

She's walk out into the yard, pick a hen and with a quick flick of her wrist she'd break it's neck then start to pulling feathers. It was then we knew we'd have some fine fried chicken that night and chicken and dumplings the next. MMMMmmmmmm

It's much simpler to go to the supermarket and get a fryer (without all those annoying head, feet and feathers) but believe me it sure doesn't taste the same.

[XOKCowboy]

165. I was about that same age when my Grandpa took me rabbit hunting

I remember freezing my little butt off all day, walking mile after mile while Grandpa told me what to look for, how to hold my little 410 as I walked and having to help clean and skin the rabbits Grandpa shot. I also remember the rabbit stew my Grandma made that night, how warm it was in her little kitchen and how satisfied I felt about getting to finally getting to go hunting with Grandpa.

It's still one of my favorite memories.

Now if it'd been a photo-op hunt my memory might be a little different. :)

[seabeyond]

37. eeeeeeew. i have to kinda grin and bear it when son brings me home my meat

oh, it is so hard. cause i am such a snob. and it taste like shit. and my stomach rolls as i eat it. and i have to focus not to vomit

ya

the upside, i think if the world comes to an end, they can feed me

[Maestro]

60. While I believe most hunters are responsible

and should, at the very least, care for the environment in which they hunt culling only what is stipulated by law and hopefully using the kill for meat, I find this disgusting. She is anti-environment, a religious bigot who believes in "man's" rule over animals and I doubt she taught her child anything from seeing this. I prefer to take pics of my animals.

Read this.

[200overcast]

72. Do you take pictures of cows?

just wondering...

[seemslikeadream]

79. I DO

Even if it is off the internet

[200overcast]

88. mmmmmmmmmmm, burgers!

:D

[seemslikeadream]

92. That's ok you're not PRO-LIFE are you?

butting your nose in my body's business?

[200overcast]

110. Please believe me when I tell you I wouldn't allow my nose within 100 feet of your body.

...

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[roguevalley]

259. he's been tombstoned. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

281. Gee what a shock

Hey rogue, I have been thinking about you a lot the last few days. Thanks for the gift of your frootloop governor! :)

[roguevalley]

309. heh-heh-heh. we like to share. :-D Why should we only have

the blessing? :evilgrin: sorta makes a lot of other governators seem normal doesn't it?

[seemslikeadream]

131. Are you telling me I can't have an abortion?

[200overcast]

134. Of course not. What the hell gave you that impression?

jeezus
:eyes:

[seemslikeadream]

140. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BUT SHE IS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GET IT NOW

[200overcast]

146. Maybe you shouldn't smoke that stuff.

Just sayin'

[seemslikeadream]

152. Maybe we are two VERY different people

I can definitely state that

[Lorien]

275. Mmmm...mad cow!

:crazy: if you eat that crap these days.

[Maestro]

137. Birds, a few cows, and other wildlife

We've killed enough. What about you?

[flvegan]

276. You wear that tombstone well.

Douchebag.

[bertman]

71. I recced this thread NOT because I find her hunting or the photo to be bad AT ALL, but because

I am disgusted by how out-of-touch with reality so many urban dwellers, and in this instance, DU'ers are.

If you aren't a vegan and you're railing against this woman hunting caribou, you're a hypocite and should STFU.

Killing animals for food is the way NATURE ARRANGED the cycle of life on this planet. It starts at the tiniest organisms and works its way up the food chain to all fish, fowl, reptiles, mammals that are carnivorous or omnivorous. And, of course, herbivores also take life, even though we don't consider it sentient life.

If you eat a frickin' hamburger you are subjecting some animal to a death that is very possibly even more grisly than the death of that caribou. Same for hot dogs, chicken, pork, bacon, sausage, fish sandwiches, lamb, etc, etc.

An animal must be killed if its going to be prepared as food. Simple, but inconvenient truth, folks. But, most of us don't ever see the process and are definitely not involved in it on a personal level.

We regulate the killing of animals for lots of reasons. It appears that Sarah Palin follows those rules. And I'm pretty sure that caribou was taken home as food for her family and friends. (By the way, what difference does it make if she packed it out herself or hauled it out by horsepack or three-wheeler?)

To me, it's far better for parents to teach (by example, if possible) their kids how their food is "harvested" and processed. Unfortunately, many Americans seem to think it appears magically in the meat section of the food market. Talk about a disconnect from the natural world!!

I am no longer a hunter but am an avid fisherman. My friends who hunt are all very much in touch with the spiritual and natural world and honor the animals they kill for food. And, FWIW, many of them are Democrats.

By the way, I think Sarah Palin was an unbelievably stupid pick for Veep by McAnus, but her hunting heritage doesn't bother me in the least.

And I could care less if Obama hunts or Biden hunts, as long as they are committed to allowing Americans to hunt and fish for the food that Nature provides, I'll support them.

[200overcast]

73. Great post. There sure are a lot of sanctimonious hypocrites hereabouts.

:grr:

[EFerrari]

82. Enjoy your stay at DU. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

83. Yea and they are PRO-LIFE animal "for fun" killers

[EFerrari]

80. Speaking of a disconnect, how do you know this animal became dinner?

[XOKCowboy]

105. She's the freakin' governor... What do you think she did with it?

Leave it beside the road? In Alaska wasting meat would get her kicked out of the state. Hunters are tolerated and celebrated. Killing and wasting the meat is not. That pertains not only to Alaskans but to responsible hunters everywhere.

[EFerrari]

109. That's a lot of assuming there, Cowboy. n/t

[XOKCowboy]

142. What part?

I'm not assuming anything. Hunters turn in more poachers and thrill killers than anyone else. My grandfather who taught me to shoot and hunt would have disowned me for killing an animal just for sport. Heck he even forbade us from shooting sparrows with our bb guns when we were very young. About the caribou my point is that she's either the governor or the mayor of Wasilla in that picture. If word got out that she'd killed that caribou and left it to rot (I figure that's what you're assuming) then she'd be neither very quickly.

[roguevalley]

260. my dad would salvage roadkill as a wreckerman and people on the trooper list

would come and get it. she either took it home or gave it to someone. people don't waste up here unless they are dicks. your butt is toast if you do.

[XOKCowboy]

Thank you for a sensible post...

but put your helmet on. There will be some incoming. :)

:hide:

[JonQ]

74. I assume everyone on this thread who took issue with hunting

is a strict vegan? Because to oppose one person utilizing an animal for food while you do the same (only paying someone else for the privilege) would be more than a tad hypocritical.

[EFerrari]

77. You have no evidence this animal was used for food. n/t

[200overcast]

98. Well, you have no evidence it was NOT. But if it ended up in the freezer, that's ok with you, right

Because that's the gist of your latest argument.

[JonQ]

99. I've heard that they do in fact hunt for food

But does that really matter? Hunting is legal if you have all the necessary permits. And I assume she did otherwise the article would have been about that.

Do you really think coming down on all hunters will bring votes to obama? Most americans are not opposed to hunting, most that are aren't voting for McCain anyway.

[seemslikeadream]

103. LINK PLEASE??

[JonQ]

114. Link to what?

[seemslikeadream]

123. When you post "I heard stuff" it means absolutely nothing

without a link

[JonQ]

162. No,

I don't have a link on hand showing that most Americans are not radically opposed to hunting and would not change their vote based on that. I do have the evidence that we've had hunters and non-hunters run for president and the only time it really becomes an issue is when one is absolutely opposed to hunting, then he tends to lose.

I also don't have a link saying that Americans would be hesitant to vote for a candidate who told all Americans to go f*ck themselves, but I have a hunch . . .

[seemslikeadream]

180. "I've heard that they do in fact hunt for food" WHERE'S THE FUCKING LINK TO THAT?

[JonQ]

184. Ok, do a google search,

http://www.newsweek.com/id/156276

"Like many Alaskans, Gov. Sarah Palin is a lifelong hunter and strong proponent of Second Amendment rights. A longtime member of the National Rifle Association, she told USA Today when she was running for governor as a Republican in 2006 that "We hunt as much as we can, and I'm proud to say our freezer is full of wild game we harvested here in Alaska." Her own parents had just returned from hunting caribou when they learned that she had been tapped as Sen. John McCain's running mate."

I suppose she could be saying that she hunts moose, then throws all the meat away so she can go to the supermarket and buy outrageously expensive specialty meats. But I find that unlikely.

And again, it's not really relevant, but I have answered your question.

[JonQ]

273. So I posted

the "FUCKING LINK TO THAT". In case you missed it.

[dysfunctional press]

203. the fact that she wasn't arrested is pretty much evidence of that, iinm...

going by alaska law-

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.meat

Alaska law requires that ALL MOOSE AND CARIBOU MEAT MUST BE SALVAGED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

[krispos42]

296. Typically...

the meat of the animal goes for food, even if it's not in YOUR freezer. Even if the person is just trophy hunting, he or she donates the meat to the local food pantry. The caribou meat WILL wind up on somebody's plate, even if it's not necessarily hers.

[CLG_News]

76. K&R to expose Nazi Palin

n/t

[JonQ]

81. And hypothetical question here

if I posted a picture of a native family joining in on a kill, would anyone dare call them bloodthirsty murderers, disgusting, sociopaths, relate their actions to slavery (I don't get that one) or any of the other invective directed against these two?

No?

Didn't think so.

[EFerrari]

84. No, because presumably it would not be a photo op to forward

their political career by catering to their insane fundamentalist base.

Any more questions?

[JonQ]

90. So the concern is not the killing

it's that she (you assume) posed for the picture to get votes. Alright then, would direct the same level of ire at every politician who ever posed for a photo op? That must get exhausting.

[200overcast]

93. The spinning is even more exhausting.

It's amaaaaazing.

[EFerrari]

95. Thank God we have you here to defend Sarah Palin.

[200overcast]

102. Dont' thank God, it was my idea. If being a hunter is the worst thing you can think of to

use against her, you're just a pathetic loser.

[EFerrari]

107. Have you not read this thread?

:)

[seemslikeadream]

145. It is not because she is a hunter she is a killer when she espouses pro-life

[reggie the dog]

225. since when was pro life

the same as vegetarian?

[JonQ]

126. Thank god we have people like you

to make issues out of nothing, attack a perfectly legal sport that appeals to millions of americans, including independents, and otherwise make democrats appear to be elitists out of touch with middle america. That is a winning strategy.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

178. Nobody has ever called me that

[XOKCowboy]

190. Yep..

The majority of America would look at this thread and say "See the Democrats want to take away all guns and stop hunting" and from that point on discount the rest of the Democratic agenda. Democrats are not all vegans and live in major urban centers.

[EFerrari]

201. Actually, the majority of Americans would look at this thread and ask

why you are so defensive.

And as far as being "effete", I've attended many births, most of them human. I can shoot well enough not to shoot my foot off and I snagged a rapist and turned him over to the Berkeley PD with my bare finger. I've lived on a ranch where we grew everything from the gardens and fields and pens I planned, built and managed and where I was the nearest thing to a vet for miles.

Effete, my bald headed granny.

So, stuff it or go over to Free Republic where they lap this stereotypical bs up like mommy's milk.

[XOKCowboy]

220. I was wondering why you're so defensive also

Now I'm a freeper? Because I don't agree with you on hunting? With your concept of "inclusiveness" the Dems would be doomed.

There are so many things to complain about Palin yet you seem to be obsessed with pressing the fact that she hunts. I'm just saying that not everyone agrees with you that it's that important.

[EFerrari]

256. I don't think I've written a single sentence that attacks hunting.

So, sorry, you're wrong.

[EFerrari]

193. Actually, only freepers call us that.

lol

[EFerrari]

192. I haven't attacked hunting at all. And you can stuff your Republican elitist meme

anywhere you want. :hi:

[reggie the dog]

226. lots of Democrats hunt too

about half of all Democrats and half of all Republicans have guns in their homes too.

Bashing her for hunting alienates part of the Democrats base.

[SOS]

227. 94% of Americans do not hunt

6% do hunt and that number is plummeting.
In 1991, 9% hunted.
The number declines rapidly every year.
Young people are simply not interested.

The political impact is near zero.

[roguevalley]

262. not up here if part of your personal identity is to be as buff as any man.

you underestimate the sourdough side of life up here in the minds of some.

[seemslikeadream]

181. I know isn't he precious?

Can I keep him?

[EFerrari]

94. It's not about the hunting for me, anyway.

And I can't remember the last time any politician I supported thought composing a death scene would get them votes. :shrug:

[roguevalley]

263. a lot of hunters have their pictures taken with their kills. Fishermen

do that all the time. its part of the game.

[JonQ]

267. I thought

that if you were a hunter you ought to be secretly ashamed of yourself and yearn to be a vegan; if only some tolerant, all inclusive progressive would show you how to give up your wicked ways.

[roguevalley]

308. I don't hunt, fish or harm animals in any way. I do dog rescues.

other people do this, its part of the thing they do.

[JonQ]

143. BTW,

what's your opinion on the pictures of Kerry hunting? Sociopath, oppurtunistic murderer, bloodthirsty monster? Just curious. Because if it's wrong for one person it ought to be wrong for everyone (otherwise that is what we call double standards, a bad thing).

[seemslikeadream]

86. No because they are not sanctimonious PRO-LIFE down your throat killers for fun

That's the problem

[JonQ]

91. I believe the pro-life types

are pro-human life. I'm not saying I agree with them, I don't, but I don't see it as hypocritical to say it is wrong to kill a human, but not wrong to kill an animal. Huge difference between the two. Or should hunters be charged with murder unless they killed in self-defense?

Sorry, but trying to equate the two stances is absurd.

[seemslikeadream]

100. PRO-LIFE ONLY FOR HUMANS

That's what their slogan should say then

[JonQ]

106. Are you pro-choice?

If so are you saying all animals should be guaranteed the right to abortions? Shouldn't you be saying "pro-choice, for humans"? How about medicine? Is it government funded healthcare, or government funded healthcare "for humans"? Nit-picking like that just comes off as childish when the meaning is clear.

[seemslikeadream]

113. Sir this is in NO WAY nit picking

[JonQ]

125. Um yes it is

saying that every political slogan that logically only applies to humans has to have "for humans" after it, otherwise it should be assumed to apply to all manner if life is nitpicking.

[seemslikeadream]

127. Hey it's their slogan I guess they are just dishonest

or fucking LIARS

[JonQ]

132. Riiiiiight

like I said, do you say "for humans only" after every policy you support? You support voting rights, for animals as well? You support trial by jury, for animals as well. Nonsense.

You're trying to make an issue out of nothing and you aren't making them look bad in the process.

[seemslikeadream]

138. This is about the words THEY choose to use

[JonQ]

148. Alright, you're not getting this

think about the words YOU choose to use. Do all of them include the disclaimer (spoken, not implied) that you are only applying them to humans? I doubt it, and if they do you might need to see a therapist, that may be a serious psychological disorder. Thing is, that you don't have to say specifically that you are referring to humans when it is pretty obvious that you couldn't be talking about anything else. I really don't see why this needs to be argued, your whole point is getting a little surreal.

[seemslikeadream]

163. This is a campaign slogan what don't you get?

[JonQ]

177. Yes, it is a campaign slogan

aimed at human voters (few animals are fluent in english, fewer still are registered voters) in reference to laws covering humans (I can't think of any proposal for a law banning or affirming the right of abortions in animals) and is only ever applied to human abortions.

Clearly they were referring to their anti-hunting stance.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

115. If you're a Republican. That's the Republican frame you're defending.

[JonQ]

207. And that's how you know when you've won the debate

or at least when you know the other side believes it has lost, when they resort to direct, baseless, attacks.

[reggie the dog]

229. they soud like a couple of kids

yelling while covering their ears.

I am pro choice, but only for humans, the idea that pro life people cannot support killing animals is insane. Were it true all pro lifers would be vegetarians. How many people ever assumed or understood that pro lifers do not eat meat which comes from dead animals? Have you people never eaten duck, goose, deer, moose, bear, or mountain lion? Never eaten elk, or wild boar???? Never eaten river fished trout, bass?????catfish??????

[EFerrari]

104. What is the difference between taking a life for no reason

and taking a life for no reason?

To fail to make the connection is absurd.

There is a difference between taking what you need and taking what you can.

[JonQ]

111. You assume she had no reason

she may have eaten the animal, I have no idea and I don't care.

Again, you are equating human life to animal life. Is this intentional, do you see no difference between the two? Or are you mistaken in your analogy?

[EFerrari]

119. So, are you a creationist? Do you not believe in evolution?

[JonQ]

151. No

I am not a creationist, I believe in evolution.

Huh?

---------

on edit, I don't "believe" in evolution, as that implies faith, I acknowledge the overwhelming evidence in support of it.

[EFerrari]

160. Then please explain the radical division you're making

between human life and "animal" life.

[JonQ]

169. Simple, I and I suspect you as well

am a human. Our society, our culture, our laws, everything is set up for the benefit of mankind, not everything else. There, end of story.

Hypothetical, you see a burning building. In one room is a child, in another a dog. You have time to save exactly one (my scenario, I can set up the rules). Do you sit in the lawn debating the finer points of what makes a human unique or conversely no different than an animal, or do you rescue the kid?

[EFerrari]

174. That's called a false dilemma. n/t

[JonQ]

182. Not really

it comes up frequently. People are often faced with the "false dilemma" of having to save an animal or a human. Most choose correctly. And you didn't answer my question.


False dilemma by the way means only two options are presented, when there may be alternatives. In my scenario there are three options, do nothing, save the dog, save the child. There, not a false dilemma at all.
________________________

edit: are you making the case that never once in human history has anyone ever been presented with a clear choice between saving a human and saving an animal life? Never? Wow, I find that unlikely.

[reggie the dog]

230. written language

laws, governments, voting rights, military obligations, having to work, having rights.....

[EFerrari]

258. That doesn't speak to the issue, does it?

[seemslikeadream]

120. No I am not I am stating that PRO-LIFE means PRO-LIFE

CHANGE THE SLOGAN IF IT DOES NOT MEAN WHAT IT SAYS

[reggie the dog]

231. you are off base

if you want to attack pro life as not logical, attack it because many people who are pro life support the death penalty, which takes human life. You know damn well that pro life has alwas been understood as anti abortion. The slogan needs no changing because those of us living on the planet earth know what it means.

[200overcast]

116. What does that mean in English?

??

[EFerrari]

122. Tell me what your first language is and I'll try to translate for you.

[200overcast]

144. You asked, and I quote directly:

What is the difference between taking a life for no reason
and taking a life for no reason.

Maybe that passes for sensible syntax in someone's basement but it is meaningless blather to me.

[EFerrari]

156. The poster was comparing human life and "animal life"

which is a problem all by itself, but a construction you should have been able to follow without very much confusion.

[200overcast]

172. I'm just beginning to learn Basement Blather.

Gotta get sum praktis i gess.

[EFerrari]

202. Oh -- so your first language IS freep. Got it. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

173. WRONG PLACE

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

97. No doubt she's going feed her starving children and heat the cave with the kill.

Not to mention carpet over the dirt floor with the hide and sacrifice the entrails to the Earth God.

[EFerrari]

124. She probably bled the animal, too, for nourishment on her hike home.

:rofl:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

150. Well, toting the kid on her back, and the caribou, while fighting off the wolves...

and, having to swamp out the latrine, and polish the hubby's sandals...takes a lot of nourishment.

This whole argument of "eating the meat" is bullshit. How many abattoir workers take pictures of their "kills" to entertain the neighbors? Or, hang the heads of the chickens, cows, lambs, etc on their walls as "trophies"?

I'd respect them more if they just admitted that they like killing for pleasure.

[704wipes]

247. She didn't have to fight off wolves - she allowed helicopter hunts

of the wolves so the Caribou would still be there for her to murder and drag home without fear of the wolves coming after her....

[JonQ]

157. I assume

you have never eaten meat in excess of what you absolutely need to survive, and are currently living in squalor. And you certainly never enjoyed the experience. And what god she chooses (or doesn't choose) to offer thanks to is completely irrelevant. Are you saying that nature based religions are more legitimate, more based in fact than any other? They all seem pretty made up to me. Or at least, requiring faith to be believed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

171. No, I'm questioning the legitimacy of the argument that she's going "to eat it"?

Which some seem to believe justifies killing animals for pleasure, which they refuse to acknowledge.

Sarah obviously has no need to kill caribou, wolves, deer, to feed herself or her family, satisfy whatever "god", or warm herself.

She's doing it because she enjoys it.

[JonQ]

186. Inuits

still hunt whales. Not because they absolutely need to to survive (this has been an area of contention for years) but because it has special religious and cultural significance to them.

They are killing for reasons other than mere survival, even though they are eating what they kill.

They are sociopaths right?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

196. Sarah Palin is an Inuit?

Head-hunters in the Amazon and New Guinea still collect skulls for religious and cultural reasons. The Aztecs and Celts were fond of human sacrifice to please the Gods. The southerners claimed to be protecting their "culture" of slavery in the civil war. Some African tribes still believe in mutilating women because it's their "culture" and Pakistanis and Saudis execute women for adultery in the name of religion.

I don't buy the argument that "culture" or "religion" justify barbarism.

[JonQ]

204. Nice slieght of hand there

notice that A) I was responding to the notion that it was acceptable to kill animals only if you are starving and would die otherwise, not the cultural implications of killing animals, and B) in my scenario we were discussing animals being killed, you then predictably made it out like I was defending abusing women and slavery. Which leaves three options as I see it. You believe blacks and women to be equivalent to animals, you failed to understand my analogy, or you are intentionally trying to redirect the conversation knowing that you couldn't argue with what I had literally stated.

Which is it?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

210. You're the one that brought in Inuits and "cultural/religious" reasons for killing.

I'm using the argument that Sarah Palin, and her ilk, kill animals for the pleasure of killing but call it "sport". You then said that Inuits kill for religio/cultural reasons as a justification.

If anyone is attempting a slight of hand and avoiding the issue it is you.

[JonQ]

215. No

you made the argument that although she planned to eat the animal that didn't matter, that because it wasn't absolutely necessary for her survival it was still somehow evil. I pointed out another example of people who kill without it being absolutely necessary for their survival and asked if you had the same opinion about them. So far you have failed to answer my question.

If you don't mind, what is your opinion on people, all people regardless of race, religion or culture, who kill animals without it being an immediate life or death situation?

[JonQ]

205. Also

would you then describe inuits, and other natives who practice hunting (of animals, not humans just so you don't get confused again) for reasons other than mere survival are barbarians? That seems to be what you implied in your statement which is an awfully sweeping statement.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

213. Indeed, I would.

But, not as barbaric as a full-grown, educated woman who kills animals for "sport".

[JonQ]

217. So that makes quite a few people

barbarians in your eyes. It must be nice up on the pedestal. Don't ever come down though, you may have to interact with us mere humans.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

223. I do interact.

But, as a human, I get to choose who I interact with, and decide whether I wish to emulate their lifestyle. I find killing for the pleasure of killing, or those that kill out of some religious/cultural reasons partaking of a lifestyle barbaric. In the same way that I find people that magic hair restorers boobs.

I'll stick with my pedestal.

[reggie the dog]

232. Do you enjoy going out to a restaurant

and ordering ribs or a steak? What the hell is wrong with enjoying tracking down an animal and then hitting a moving target with a bullet while thinking to yourself "that caribou is going to taste great when we eat it on Christmas". ??? where in the hell is the problem with this? I vote Democrat, I vote Communist and Socialist here in France, I ENJOY eating meat, yes I get pleasure for eating well prepared dead animal parts. MMMMM CHICKEN, COW...... I take PLEASURE in going to the butchers shop and asking him for a prime cut. I eat fois gras and do not give a damn if the goose is happy or not during its life because it is my FUCKING FOOD. You cannot get fois gras unless you force too much food down the damn goose. I do however buy chicen and eggs from chickens raised outside beacause I figure if it is possible to be nice to my food before I have it killed for me I may as well do so.

[JonQ]

265. Well said

I was starting to feel like I was alone on this.

[reggie the dog]

339. sometimes I am amazed

by what some people on this board are horrified by. I think they miss the context. In Alaska hunting is seen as a good quality in people. In NW Montana women are expected to know how to track game and I imagine it is simillar in Alaska.

[flvegan]

285. Mmmm...selfish.

[reggie the dog]

338. mmmm

dead cow muscles

mmmmmm

I have nothing against your being a vegan, but eating meat or hunting it really should not be a campaign issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. Looks like pregnant road kill to me

:evilgrin:

[madisongrace]

135. Sad :-( n/t

[chatnoir]

141. This is the same person

Who has aerial hunting of bears and wolves in her state, sorry but it seems she gets off on killing. And this hypocrite is supposedly Pro-Life? Please.

[Desertrose]

158. Evidently she's a better aim than Cheney

What is with VP's & huntin'?

This is such a sad photo in SO many ways......

[EFerrari]

168. Or she has no friends.

lol

[Desertrose]

199. ....or she *had* friends

anyone see her walls lately?
:evilgrin:

[ccharles000]

159. ....

When I was ten I cried when I stepped on a ladybug. I would not make a good hunter.

[lonestarnot]

161. Mrs. McMoose wants your fucking antlers! Give 'em up!

God I hate her already!

[bvar22]

166. Anyone who eats any beef or chicken....

...but objects to the above photo is suffering from serious brain disconnect.



Please DO NOT try to make hunting an issue in this campaign.
It is a LOSER.




I find the above photo much less objectionable than this one:

[EFerrari]

170. What hunting? I see Caribou Barbie sitting next to a dead animal.

[bvar22]

234. I know that is what you see....

...and that says more about you than it says about Palin.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to attack Palin,
but to attack her (a resident of Alaska) for hunting shows poor judgement and a shocking knowlege deficit about Alaska, and America in general.

Go have a hamburger.

[EFerrari]

255. I don't think you've bent over far enough to defend this person.

Is there no longer an incentive to defend the pig farm?

Please go project all over someone else. :hi:

[bvar22]

266. I'm like the ACLU.

I will defend any human being against groundless, ill reasoned, partisan attacks.

There are plenty of GOOD reasons to atttack Palin.
Attacking an Alaskan because she hunts is stupid, and has a high potential for blowback.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

176. Do the folks in the abattoirs take photos of their kills?

Or, hang the remains on their walls to entertain their guests?

[reggie the dog]

233. no, because it is not difficult to kill an animal in a

slaughterhouse. It is difficult to track down an animal and then aim the gun, and fire it, in the cold. You may have trouble believing this but hunting is a SPORT. It requires skill. Hunters are allies of folks trying to preserve natural habitats too. Hunters do not like seeing big box stores or mcmansions out in the wild. As an avid mountain biker I do not want to see houses or stores in the woods. Thanks to the hunters where I live much of the forests are preserved.

[bvar22]

248. Of course not.

Corporate America would prefer that you believe your meat comes from here:

All nice and clean and wrapped in plastic.
So be a good Corporate citizen and consume plastic wrapped meat, but self-righteously condemn hunters who jump outside the Corporate approved food delivery system.
YUM!

I have much more respect for someone who responsibly kills, butchers, processes, and preserves wild meat than some asshole Liberal who attacks hunters while munching on a burger.


There are many LEGITIMATE reasons for attacking Palin.
Attacking her (a resident of Alaska) for HUNTING shows a shocking knowledge deficit of Alaska, America in general, and our heritage as a country.

This is a LOSING issue.

[City Lights]

167. OMG! She killed Rudolph!

What do we tell the children?

[Bluebear]

194. Ah, another home decorating "find" for her Maw and Paw

This head can go above the powder room commode.

[insleeforprez]

195. As someone who participated in a pig roast yesterday...

...I have no moral ground to take offense at this.

[Bluebear]

222. Did you pose with the freshly slain pig?

[Paladin]

209. You Know, There's A Right Way And A Wrong Way Of Taking Hunting Photos

Any hunter with half a brain cell working knows that photos of killed animals can and should be taken with a minimum of blood and gore evident, because the pictures may very well be viewed by non-hunters. It's just a matter of basic tact, consideration, and planning. For a politician like Palin to allow a photo like this to be taken at all, much less made public, and much less with one of her kids included in the shot, is just unbelievable, Alaskan residence notwithstanding. She deserves every bit of condemnation and bad press she gets over this travesty, because it speaks volumes about just what sort of human being she really is....

[llort51ra]

211. .

Who cares, really?

Hunting is a such a minor issue compared to the other much more important policy issues; like energy, global warming, war, and the economy.

[Odin2005]

212. I don't see anything wrong with the picture.

Then again I'm one of those "evil psychopaths" as the PETA nuts anti-rural bigots like to call us hunters. :eyes:

[The Stranger]

216. It is a death cult that has infested the nation.

A cult of fundamentalism with a god of violence and war. In the sickest twist of logic, they claim to be for life -- when it suits their need to replenish the stocks of those who have left the cult -- but they thrive on war, torture, mass murder, proselytizing, and death.

[AZBlue]

219. K&R! She is vile.

[meow mix]

221. looks like its still moaning in agony..

shes sick

[JonQ]

270. Really?

Looks pretty dead to me.

[reggie the dog]

224. that looks like some good eatin there

I like how the women in her family hunt too. In my family my grandfather only taught his sons how to hunt. It's not every woman who can down a caribou you know.

[High Plains]

236. Nominated for stupidest DU GD thread ever. And that says a lot.

There is so much to criticize this woman for...why people are obsessing on the fact she hunts is beyond me.

[XOKCowboy]

238. I don't know.. The cow penis thread was just as stupid..

and a lot more fun. :)

[seemslikeadream]

244. I imagine you do not have a vagina either?

[XOKCowboy]

297. Nope but my mother, grandmother, niece....

aunts and female cousins do and everyone would agree with me.

[NeedleCast]

321. Yeah, that was good times

[seemslikeadream]

239. ONE MORE TIME THIS IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING IT IS ABOUT PRO-LIFE

AND THAT IS WHAT I AM CRITIZING

[seemslikeadream]

240. Do you have a vagina?

[JonQ]

[seemslikeadream]

242. THIS WOMAN IS A CREATIONIST A DOMINIONIST

SHE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO CHOOSE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO WAY NO HOW

[JonQ]

269. Your right to choose

to hunt caribou or not? I don't think she was planning on making it mandatory if that's what you were worried about.

[seemslikeadream]

271. duh A-B-O-R-T-I-O-N-S

[JonQ]

272. Oh of course . . .

because this thread was about abortions, and not hunting.

:eyes:

[sl8]

293. You have the right to say anything you like.

I happen to agree with you about reproductive rights.

How does a picture of a dead caribou advance our position?

[Lorien]

280. A large percentage of Americans detest "sport" hunting

how much killing is enough for Americans? The woman is fucking repugnant on EVERY level imaginable. Just because you don't give a flying fuck for any other species that we share our planet with doesn't mean that the rest of mankind is just as self centered.

[XOKCowboy]

298. I don't think that you want to bring in "the rest of mankind" into this discussion

Really? Now that's just silly.

[baldguy]

241. So we know she can hit what she aims at, unlike our current VP.

[slackmaster]

250. She could teach him a thing or three about firearm safety

:hi:

[EFerrari]

261. Do we know that? We know she's kneeling by a dead animal. n/t

[book_worm]

268. this is why she was chosen, they won't lose any votes because she's a hunter

This is for their base.

[slackmaster]

277. book_worm is correct

I'll go a step farther and say that their calculation is that they stand to gain votes from hunters who would have stayed home on election day because of their lukewarm feelings about McCain.

[Lorien]

278. They'll lose some independent votes, that's for sure

my fundie mom would probably vote for her because of her anti-choice stance, but my mom is also a big animal lover. The polar bear lawsuit and the hunting would CERTAINLY turn her off. I know two other repugs that are also huge animal lovers and this photo might be enough to keep them at home.

I'm sick of the GOP/ MSM cramming the idea down everyone's throats that America is primarily made up of knuckle dragging uneducated fundie backwoods hicks. If that were true, then shows like "Seinfeld, "Friends", "Will and Grace", "Boston Legal", "60 minutes", etc. etc. would never have been popular at all. Instead we'd only be watching NASCAR, the WWF, and that blue collar comedy show that went off the air. Name ONE BIT OF POPULAR CULTURE that features "sport" hunters. There isn't anything, because it's a loud MINORITY. "Animal planet" is far more popular than some hunting channel (if there is one). Let's stop buying the GOP bullshit that America is chock full of cast members from "deliverance" and that they are our most important demographic, alright?

[countryjake]

288. Here's another one to send along to your friends...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3883129&mesg_id=3883731

[DutchLiberal]

279. I give you: the next vice-president of the United States!

[HughMoran]

284. Our current VP got drunk and shot a man in the face

There were no consequences.

This is meaningless to Republicans - they have no brain to stimulate.

[and-justice-for-all]

299. Trophy hunting is deplorable....nt

[The Gunslinger]

300. The worst part is that this photo will help McCain get elected.

All the far right fundy pro life gun loving animal killers now have a reason to show up at the polls in November. (I don't have a problem with responsible hunting, It's just a little ironic that a lot of sport hunters are pro life religious fanatics.)

[conflictgirl]

332. Unfortunately I think you're right

I have a number of people in my family who are not necessarily pro-Republican, but they ARE pro-hunting. A photo like this would make them feel like they were being represented in politics...scary.

[bertman]

301. If I had to choose who to vote for in this election by assessing only what has been said on this

one single thread, I am saddened to say that I would be voting for the woman who can hunt and provide food for her family.

I am sad about it because the folks who have taken the positions against this person's choice to hunt and kill animals for food have sounded like a bunch of insane nincompoops who are either 1) too dumb to understand that hunting is not something that has "infected" our society, as one poster stated, but rather it is something that we humans have been doing for millions of years, but have only recently developed our social structures and commercial delivery systems to the point that only a very few individuals actually have to do the killing and butchering of the food that sustains the overwhelming majority of us; therefore, we do not HAVE to hunt to eat, but some of us do for varied reasons, 2) considering "pro-life" to mean something other than opposed to abortion, which is what the connotation is and has been for at least 30 years, but in taking the proponent's argument to it's logical conclusion I would be forced to assume that pro-choice means that they are in favor of letting people choose any fucking thing they want, including presumably to be bloodthirsty hunters; 3) obsessed with carrying an argument to the bitter end regardless of how ignorant and bigoted they sound.

Thank Dog I do not have to choose based on this thread alone, so I will be voting for Obama and Biden on the national ticket.

Now, I think I'll go broil that dolphin I caught a couple of weeks ago (relax you guys, I'm talking about dolphin fish {dorado, mahi mahi) NOT the mammals), throw on the grill that free-range chicken that some unlucky illegal immigrant had to kill, pluck and clean for me to consume, and maybe even thaw a couple of those Bambi steaks my friend the deerslayer gave me last winter. Yummy.

[seemslikeadream]

312. the connotation is and has been for at least 30 years?

TO WHO?

[bertman]

314. To most people. Except you, of course.

[seemslikeadream]

317. EXCUSE ME I AM MORE PRO-LIFE THAN ANYONE OF THOSE F'ING REPUBS

They will not take that phrase and claim it as their own

[louis c]

315. Sarah Palin Can't Afford to Shop?

I'll take a more sensitive VP. We've had enough hunters.

[McCamy Taylor]

310. OMG! They killed Bullwinkle!

:cry:

[aikoaiko]

318. There's nothing wrong with knowing how to hunt things, grow things, build things, fix things...

... and other self-sufficient activities.

The Palin choice is working like a charm. People are bashing hunters instead of the issues. People are ridiculing her as a mother instead of the issues. People are treating her like a pretty face instead of the issues.

[MullenBank]

320. Jesus Fucking non-existent god.

I'm sure she ate the whole thing. It's an animal. Some live. Some die. Some are used for food. If she shot it, cleaned it and ate it then WTF's wrong with that? She's a hunter. So what. I go to the Whole Foods market and I'm pretty sure the steak I bought was part of a cow at one time. Then someone killed it and carved up its tasty ass so I could broil a filet mingon. If she wants to hunt a NON-ENDANGERED species in a responsible fashion than get over it.

[Jamastiene]

324. ...

I can already tell. This is gonna be a shit ripper.

:popcorn:

[FVZA_Colonel]

326. Bashing her for hunting will win us no friends.

I see no reason to do this.

[FuckYouAROCK]

334. That's sad

[indepat]

342. How I despise right-to-life MFers who love to kill

:P

[seemslikeadream]

343. Damn I woke this morning just itching to kill something, I am so hungry

[DrCory]

348. I see nothing wrong with this...

In the interest of full disclosure, I am an occassional hunter and happen to like the taste of game meats. Do I need to hunt for survival? No, but I like to keep the skill honed.