I am not religious but I have a simple question for those who are

[blues90]

Are there those out there regardless of faith that are quite content to go to their church , pray how they may and have their group of friends but feel religion does not belong in politics?

I am really just curious and honestly have no idea.

This has nothing to do at all about the candidates just a simple question.

[billyoc]

1. I don't want the government fucking up my religion.

That's why I want separation of church and state.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

21. The phrase comes from something Jefferson wrote to the

Danbury Baptist church, if memory serves. It's as he explained the church and state clause in the 1st amendment.

As to restrictions, in actuality there are restrictions on most of our rights. Think in terms of not yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater, for an example.

[XemaSab]

2. I think it's impossible to separate religious values from politics

Regardless of which side you're on. :shrug:

[Marr]

7. I disagree.

I was talking to a friend the other night about the way people in our country seem to vote vs. the way they vote in much of Europe. It's like people here want leaders instead of representatives. In other countries it's more about choosing the most efficient bureaucrats. They don't want moral guides, just solid policy wonks who will maintain or improve the functioning of government.

I think this difference is a big part of the reason our system is so broken. We're incredibly susceptible to symbolic, largely meaningless wedge issues.

I think it's very possible to separate religious values from politics. We just don't do it here.

[XemaSab]

10. I think religious values can either elevate a society or bog it down

Obama's answer about "Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto Me" I think summarized the potential to elevate the society very well.

[JerseygirlCT]

22. Europeans are also far, far less religious than Americans

So that might not be the best example. They don't vote according to those criteria because those criteria don't matter to them.

[pinto]

3. Here. Viewing politics solely through the lens of religion is missing the point of both.

And visa versa. They ought to stand alone, in and of themselves.

I'm fairly low key about my religion in public comment, it just is what it is.

I'm much more vocal about my politics, though. It is a key component of public comment, especially in a democracy.

[provis99]

4. If you're a Muslim, government and religion are intertwined

The Constitution is anti-Muslim.

[Kitty Herder]

5. It is? How? nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Just like it's anti-black, and anti-woman too, right?

:eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

23. How might that be? nt

[Betsy Ross]

6. I think it quite possible to separate religion from politics.

And I tend to some fundamentalist leanings, albeit not Christian.

Case in point: In Judaism, saving the life of the mother is a valid reason for abortion; even serious risk of health can be considered. The logic being that the woman may already have children who need care and, if healthy, she might bear subsequent off-spring. Some of other faiths support abortion in cases of incest or rape. And there are those who object to abortion in all circustances.

So the real determination is whether you consider your own religion to be the only true religion. If so, you have a theocracy where religion and politics are one.

[emdee]

8. Yes

I know the difference between what I believe religiously and what government should control.
That's the way I look at it anyway.

Also, I don't trust the politicians who use religion to get into office and then never lean on it again. It is painfully obvious that "the religious vote" should never have gone to Bush/Cheney.

emdee

[DailyGrind51]

11. Being Catholic does not influence my vote for pro-choice candidates.

[PaDem]

12. I'm an Evangelical Christian........

and I think that religion will always be intertwined to some degree with politics because religious beliefs/convictions are often an important part of someone's moral foundation. George Lakoff has written, I think, intelligently about the role of moral frameworks in politics. Keep in mind that we're talking about much more than abortion and gay rights when we talk about people's moral framework. Empathy for instance is an important part of my moral framework.

My theological belief system probably isn't all that far from say Pastor Rick Warren's but my political worldview is probably markedly different than his. Nonetheless, I could absolutely care less what a given candidate for office believes theologically. I'm not electing them to be my Pastor. I don't care if you're an Evangelical, a Muslim, a Catholic, Jewish, an atheist, or anything else. I'm looking at your policy and your worldview and seeing where it lines up with mine. My worldview is quite progressive, therefore I'm voting for the liberal atheist over the conservative Evangelical every time, and I'm voting for the liberal Evangelical over the conservative atheist every time. I don't think religious expression is necessary in politics, but it doesn't really bother me either. I do think that religious beliefs can lead to dangerous policy positions (see John Hagee etc.). Therein lies the problem with the "Religious Right".

[DailyGrind51]

24. When I vote for your "liberal atheist", I am voting for the Sermon on the Mount,

rather than your "conservative Evangelical" or Catholic who represents the selfish "objectivism" of Ayn Rand. In my view, it is really about the mission over the man, who will meet the needs of the poor, sick, lame, and stewardship of the earth on which we all depend, rather than who will serve the rich and powerful.

[Odious justice]

13. Religion is a source of morality for many

and that's no suprise. Morality, whatever the source, is a driving force in all of our lives. So it would make sense that religious groups would want to be involved in politics.

Taking the actual religion to the state...no. I don't know anyone who wants to nationalize their religion.

[FloridaJudy]

14. Yup

Ethics belongs in politics, religion doesn't. Of course, most religions adjure one to behave in an ethical manner and to treat others with compassion, but for many religious types that principle tends to get lost in the dogma. I'm not fussy about what other people care to call their Higher Power, nor even if they profess to have one at all - it's how they behave toward others that concerns me. You could worship Chthulu, but if you promote civil liberties for all, free public education, a fair social safety net, environmental responsibility, protecting the public from predatory corporations, universal access to health care, and avoiding military action unless really justified, you'll get my vote.

[Township75]

15. Absolutely.

"Are there those out there regardless of faith that are quite content to go to their church , pray how they may and have their group of friends but feel religion does not belong in politics?"

Absolutely there are. In fact, I think the leading organization for the separation for church and state is headed by a pastor.

Now with that said, will they ever be entirely separated. Likely not in our life times. Wouldn't that mead removing "In God We Trust" from all currency, all monuments in DC, and such?

And also, isn't a sudden rush to push religion entirely out of politics actually pushing into the center, as it requires so much debate about religion and stuff.

I think most of the previous posters have it right. The overwhelming majority of religious people aren't bringing their religion into politics and likewise want their politicians to stay out of their religion. Ultimately, it really comes down to a candidates stance not his religion, and thus many, many, many Christians did NOT vote for Bush.

[Sanctified]

16. Mixing Religion and Politics is like Mixing Ice Cream with Manure.

It doesn't do anything to the manure but it sure ruins the Ice Cream.

I am a Christian who is very serious about my faith and I absolutely believe that politics has no place within religion, it's not something that should be talked about in Church and candidates should not be trying to prove how religious they are because they are full of shit.

[NeedleCast]

17. Yes

I'm a Christian Universalist who thinks that everyone has a right to chose. Go to church, don't go to church, believe what you want. I don't preach to people, I've never tried to convert anyone who didn't want to listen. I accept everyone's view on religion because I understand that religion is, for the most part, a product of geography.

I hang out with a wide range of people who often have very dissimilar views than mine but the key thing among my friends is that they are, for the most part, a very tolerant bunch. I have friends who are conservative (although many of them have switched sides over the last eight years...Hooray!) and can have political discussions with them without the friendship being effected. I have friends who are Muslim. Friends who are Jewish and when religion comes up, we generally are all lined up on the same side...against fundamentalists.

In fact, I would say the VAST majority of people who are "religious" fit the description of being content to go to church (or not), pray how they may and enjoy their groups without it crossing over into politics.

I think that religion ABSOLUTELY does not belong in politics. At the same time, I wish politics to be kept out of religion. As we can see from another "Hot" thread here in GD, there are plenty of DU'ers who would deny the right to free speech to those who they disagree with.

[dsotm-wywh]

18. It depends on what issues are important to you

I'm anti-gay and very anti-abortion personally, but I would never choose a candidate based solely on either of those issues. In fact, the true teachings of Jesus are to not judge, so I just let those people be and live their own lives however they want. They have to answer for them, not me. I don't even think when those people have to answer for their actions it will be so bad because I believe in a loving God who also doesn't consider those very important issues. As long as you try to be a good person and truly do your best to give as much love and peace and help to the people of the world you're going to do just fine. I dont' even really consider those two issues religious issues for me it's more social and I guess scientific (they gay thing).

My most important issue currently is all of the greed and corruption that is going on now in Washington, which includes the Iraq war which will go down in history as one of the lowest points of our country in, well ever. So, I'm voting for Obama.

The problem with the Repubes who mix religion and politics these days is that their views on religion are skewed so it also skews their politics. For them to be pro-life but not even investigate whether or not the war in Iraq was justified, even now with mounting evidence, makes absolutely zero sense. Also, for them to be anti-gay yet look past themselves committing adultery and getting divorced - which Jesus clearly said was a sin is just plain incorrect. My parents are all super Christian and republican and divorced yet they want to tell someone else they believe in the sanctity of marriage? Wrong-o buck-o

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Yes to the first ones, as to the last...

so long as religious people exist, religion will be involved in politics. Just like any other concern that's important to people will be involved.

Now, that's very different from involved in government. Very.

People may choose any criteria they like by which they want to decide on a president, or any other political position. If enough of them hold similar criteria, then candidates will have to pay attention, and address their concerns.

But while people can and do vote their beliefs (rightly or wrongly), those elected have a duty to honor the Constitution.

[MissDeeds]

25. Terrific question

My husband and I joined a church together before we got married. We actually got rather involved in the whole thing, with me teaching classes and my husband occasionally acting as usher. We decided to leave the church because the minister used the pulpit to express political beliefs. Funny thing is, we agreed with his political sentiments, but did not agree that he should be using the pulpit for political discourse.

[AnnieBW]

26. I'm a Wiccan

I love that wall between church and state as much as my atheist friends do!