I am SO pissed...our local paper published a database on salaries and INCLUDED names ect...

[greenbriar]

I understand that those of us in public service lose some of our privacy


I understand that Freedom of information is necessary,


BUT I feel like I have been violated

both my husband and I have had our lives violated today.. I think the better way to have done this is to list positions and salaries NOT names. In this day of high crime, high unemployment and identity theft, this was in very poor taste.




http://www.kansas.com/




Ed. Sp. Ed. Sp.+ Ed. Sp.+
BA+ BA+ BA+ MA+ MA+ MA+ or MA+ 10 or MA+ 20 or MA+
Initial BA 10 Gr. 20 Gr. 30 Gr. MA+ 10 Gr. 20 Gr. 30 Gr. 40 Gr. 50 Gr. 60 Gr. Earned
Placement Step Degree Hours Hours Hours Degree Hours Hours Hours Hours Hours Hours Doctorate
0 2 36,927 37,432 37,936 38,440 39,229 39,734 40,238 40,742 41,246 41,751 42,255 42,759
1 3 37,815 38,319 38,823 39,328 40,401 40,906 41,410 41,914 42,418 42,923 43,427 43,931
2 4 38,702 39,206 39,711 40,215 41,573 42,078 42,582 43,086 43,590 44,095 44,599 45,103
3 5 39,589 40,094 40,598 41,102 42,745 43,250 43,754 44,258 44,762 45,267 45,771 46,275
4 6 40,477 40,981 41,485 41,989 43,917 44,422 44,926 45,430 45,934 46,439 46,943 47,447
5 7 41,364 41,868 42,372 42,877 45,089 45,594 46,098 46,602 47,107 47,611 48,115 48,619
6 8 42,251 42,756 43,260 43,764 46,261 46,766 47,270 47,774 48,279 48,783 49,287 49,791
7 9 43,139 43,643 44,147 44,651 47,433 47,938 48,442 48,946 49,451 49,955 50,459 50,963
8 10 44,530 45,034 45,539 48,605 49,110 49,614 50,118 50,623 51,127 51,631 52,135
9 11 45,922 46,426 49,777 50,282 50,786 51,290 51,795 52,299 52,803 53,307
10 12 47,313 50,949 51,454 51,958 52,462 52,967 53,471 53,975 54,479
11 13 52,121 52,626 53,130 53,634 54,139 54,643 55,147 55,651
12 14 54,302 54,806 55,311 55,815 56,319 56,823
13+ 15 56,483 56,987 57,491 57,996




I would have thought this would be suficient and NOT print our names and buildings

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I cannot believe that is legal! How did they get this info?

What if it is not accurate?
Get a lawyer..or call the ACLU

[greenbriar]

2. it is accurate except for the fact we haven't voted on the new teaching contract

so our salaries will go even higher

[Clark2008]

6. It's perfectly legal.

All tax-paid salaries are subject to the open-records law of most (I won't say all, that might not be true) states.

When I was a reporter, our newspaper did this, as well. I'm sorry the OP feels violated, but the fact remains that those who are paid by the citizens are accountable to the citizens who pay their salaries.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

61. It's public record.

It has to be. WE pay their salaries, or at least if you're a state employee we pay their salaries.
Duckie

[greenbriar]

62. so publish the salary schedule heck even note how many teachers on each level

but you do not need

my name

my building

my hire date




Why do you need that info?


heck might as well give address and social too...then you can open accounts and spend my money :eyes:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

63. That's not what I meant....

But of course it was taken to the extreme. It happens all the time here, and while they didn't need your building, the rest of the info most people in your city already knew anyway, like your name. I thought you were like a secretary or something. But you're a teacher. Most people already know most of that information anyway. I don't see the problem. What about yearbooks, you being in the paper for whatever? Is that stuff an invasion of privacy as well?
Duckie

[Karenina]

3. It's called TRANSPARENCY.

Although I agree attaching names is a bit much.

[greenbriar]

4. They should have just listed jobs and numbers NOT our names

I am a teacher

They could have just published the salary schedule ...it is transparent you can find it on the districts web site plain as day


but


our names and buildings??? BULLSHIT

[tbyg52]

10. And *buildings*?

Now that is just ridiculous.

I want to know the salary schedules for government employees as much as the next person, but I don't even need *names*, much less locations!

Hmmmm.... Edited to add that the first people who came up were high-level administrators, whose salaries are negotiated individually - now *that* I do want to know and have names for.

[Karenina]

23. I do agree with you!

[sui generis]

27. here's the thing:

if they aren't allowed to discuss salaries with their fellow employees, then this clear contradiction in "transparency" and the rules the very employees themselves are held to is enough to suggest that the person who did this violated their privacy and there should be ensuing damages.

Trust your instincts. If it seems wrong in this case, it is, and no regimen of intellectual reasoning should overrule what you know is wrong.

Second thought:

1. What was the purpose of disclosing salaries?
2. Did naming actual people serve that purpose?
3. If not, what was the purpose of naming names?
4. Was this the best possible solution to disclosure?

Somebody had an agenda here.

[sandyd921]

41. More than a "bit much"!

Salary schedules should be sufficient to achieve transparency. They could even indicate the number of employees at each pay grade to further inform the public. But this is beyond the pale. If this is "normal practice" for newspapers then it's time to seriously re-evaluate the policy.

[Newsjock]

5. Newspapers are doing this all over the country

To please the 'conservatives' who want to rail against those 'high-priced' state employees sucking their wallets dry. They seem to forget that those very same state workers are those who (used to) subscribe to the paper and pay their bills.

Gannett and McClatchy are the two biggest offenders. If you want to read thousands of interesting comments, try looking at The Sacramento Bee, http://sacbee.com, and The Olympian, http://theolympian.com, where state workers are quite justifiably upset and appear to be cancelling the newspaper in large numbers. And the companies do this in capital cities, too.

The modus operandi is exactly the same in each city where this is happening. I am led to believe that this is not at all by accident.

[Clark2008]

7. Uh... no.

They are doing it because they can (it's part of a state's Sunshine Law) and because it does sell newspapers.

It has nothing to do with conservatives and everything to do with accountability.

My newspaper did this years ago when I was a working journalist and I'm certainly no conservative.

[Oeditpus Rex]

19. How would you explain newspapers that publish CCW lists?

Many do, especially in small towns. I was city editor of one, and I made it quite clear to the editor that I was against the annual practice. Running stories about who's packing heat isn't exactly pleasing conservatives. It just unnecessarily violates privacy, IMO.

Newspapers do things like this because it makes them look like watchdogs, when they're really just dogs who dig up poorly hidden bones.

I've heard far too many editors and reporters fall back on "the public's right to know." That's all well and good, but there must also be a need for the public to know.

[GreenInNC]

8. perfectly legal

Our paper does it for all school and government employees and has an online, searchable data base of their web page.

[stray cat]

9. Generally true for schools as well

[DURHAM D]

11. I was reading the Sunday morning paper in bed in 1977 -

in that moment I found out how much my (fairly new) significant other made as a state employee and that she was the highest paid female in the state - something she was not aware of. The front page story went on to detail that she was underpaid compared to males in comparable positions. It actually resulted in a review and pay increase for her and most other women working in professional positions for the state.

[Clark2008]

12. A note so you don't think I'm completely callus.

Look at it this way: at least the taxpayers can truly see how little teachers get paid compared to some of the county's big-wigs.

That was always what struck me when compiling these lists for my newspaper.

Again, I'm sorry you feel violated (and I do think it was a bit much to include your location), but it is a matter of public record.

[RC]

13. With teachers it doesn't work that way because of

all the time they have to put in off the clock, including meetings before or after school.

[greenbriar]

14. no kidding

as I said, I would not have a problem with publishing the salary schedule...heck it is even online in plain site on the districts website


BUT>>>

I think what the paper has done is VERY dangerous

Identity theft is very common as is crime itself.


I guess I should be grateful they didn't publish our social security numbers and home addresses but how hard would that be to find now?

[Clark2008]

18. I'm not understanding what you mean.

I know teachers put in a lot of off-the-clock time. I was merely mentioning how little they're paid - even ON the clock - as compared to the county big wigs.

Many people - at least those with school-aged children - do know how much time teachers spend off-the-clock working; therefore, it makes that salary number even more pale in comparison.

[donco6]

35. Well, there is the 184-day work year to consider. n/t

[greenbriar]

39. bwhahaha

yea right


take into consideration the 3 workshops I had to attend

the time I spent making lessons and materials for things I was teaching this year

the time I spent NOT on contract getting my room ready because the district gives us ONE whole day for that


I had MAYBE 3 weeks of nothing school related to do this summer


I have been a teacher for 11 years so 3 weeks vacation is NORMAL no matter where you work at that length of service

[donco6]

43. Let's be honest here.

You were undoubtedly paid for the 3 workshops. If you do summer school or Saturday school, you're paid for that, too. You're paid for any weekend training during the year. You're paid to serve on curriculum development committees. And that's as it should be.

Conversely, the starting pay for a teacher is an abysmal $34,000 here in the Denver Metro area - unless you have a Special Ed or Science or Math endorsement, then sometimes (if the union lets you), you can get a stipend on top of that. Big whoop.

But, on the other hand again, by the time you reach your Rule of 80 (50 years old with 30 years service - minimum eligible for retirement), you could be up to $76,000 with an MA+60. Your retirement at age 50 with 30 years of service would bring in 75% of your HAS for life in a defined-benefit program with 3.5% COL increases each year. Sweet!

I'M NOT SAYING TEACHERS SHOULDN'T BE PAID MORE, THAT THEY DON'T WORK HARD, OR THAT THEY AREN'T UNDERAPPRECIATED. But it just doesn't help to imply that you work twice as hard as everyone else. It really doesn't.

[greenbriar]

45. I wasn't insisting I work twice as hard. I work just the same

NO I did NOT get paid to attend the conferences...It was Mandatory due to NCLB as our building is on the "watch list" even tho we made AYP last year for the first time in years

[lonestarnot]

15. So which are you, shocked or awed?

[greenbriar]

20. Pissed

but I learned I was in the top 12 in my building...

[Sanctified]

16. That is one of the downsides to working in the public sector.

When the people employ you, they have a right to know how much they are paying you. We have this happen every year where I live and it does show some of the problems in pay, we have some Administrative assistants who make double to triple the amount of most of our teachers, of course the State blames the Teachers Unions by saying they set the cap on what a teacher can make based on their seniority, which is bullshit.

[sandyd921]

42. But why are names necessary?

I would think that the salary schedule and the number of employees at each pay grade should suffice.

[Sanctified]

48. Why should it be secret?

If you work for the public the public has a right to know who you are and how much you make. Government should be transparent none of this secret stuff.

[greenbriar]

49. so now, someone knows my name, and where I work and how much I make

not too much of a stretch to google that info

find my address, think I make lots of money cause the paper said so and rob me or steal my identity?

[Sanctified]

53. Don't work in the public sector if it's that big of a problem.

You chose to work in a field where that information is made public, you can't expect them to change the rules now because people know how much money you make.

[GoesTo11]

17. All salaries should be public - it would help workers

The whole idea of secrecy about salaries benefits employers and harms workers. It vastly improves employers' bargaining power and diminishes that of workers. Employers know if they're getting a good deal on someone and they will never pay more than what they have to. Employees don't know if they're getting a good deal or not, so some are always underpaid. This in turn lowers salaries for everyone else to some extent. This is why it has been so heavily pushed by employers and those sympathetic to corporate interests that you shouldn't discuss salary. It's just a cultural thing that one's salary is so dang private. Like age or weight or whatever. You could just say I make $52,000/year and how do you like that? We already have a pretty clear economic pecking order, since we sort of know what occupations make what, so it's just at the finer level of who at your company makes a thousand more or a few thousand less that everyone's all paranoid. So, don't worry about it. You make what you make. I hope you can live decently on it and that's that.

[greenbriar]

30. put your money where your mouth is....Name, Place of work and Salary please

As I have said...


I have NO problem with the salary schedule being published


but to put my name and my building in the paper puts ME at risk

[GoesTo11]

51. Well, I didn't say I want to go first.

I see your point, and I don't think papers should be doing this to a selected few (at least below the $100,000 plus level). I was making a point at a different level, but kind of rushed past your experience. I have told people at work what I make at all the jobs I've had. You learn what others make, who's overpaid & who's underpaid, and how fair or unfair it all is. After all this exchanging of info, a lot of people are about where they should be. A few of deadwood suckups turn out to be about 30% above, and a few of competent but unassertive women were about 20% below. You learn how hard you can push for a raise, whether to look outside.

[itsrobert]

21. I'm a Federal Government Employee

If you know my pay grade, you pretty much know how much I make. I'm even ask to give more during charity drives because they know I make more than some. Do I feel violated? NO.

[live love laugh]

36. Your example is totally different than the OPs and there is no reason for you to feel violated.

You haven't been.

[itsrobert]

44. Why is it different?

Everyone knows how much I make. What's the difference?

[Hangingon]

65. FOIA covers individual federal employee pay rates

It also covers current job descriptions and job locations.

[Island Blue]

22. One of my local papers did this too with

county government employees (which I am one of). They didn't publish everyones salaries - mainly just the top dogs but made it seem like all county employees were compensated similarly. This paper is very hostile toward county government employees.

[noamnety]

24. It's all public record.

Any citizen is legally entitled to go to a school board and ask to see the full financial records of a school, and go over every item in it. It's like putting in a FOIA request.

We actually have more privacy - even though it's all open to the public upon request - than many people in government service. We aren't outraged that senators have their salaries published - we think we have a right to know.

Consider the military - not only is their pay public, but they have to wear insignia marking what their pay is right on their hats and collars, so everyone else can tell at a glance whether they are dealing with someone who makes more or less money than them, so they can treat them accordingly. I guess that would be my question - when you've seen a SGT in the press making a statement about the military, have you been outraged that he's identified as a SGT? You can look up his pay scale as well. Or is their financial privacy kind of not the same as yours for some reason?

The cultural conditioning makes a big difference regarding our reaction to it. In government service, we all knew what everyone was making, and opening were awarded step increases for bonuses, and there wasn't any shame in talking about where we were on the pay scale - though we talked in terms of being a GS-12, step 5, rather than in terms of actual dollars.

I don't know that it puts you at risk of identity theft - Most teachers' names and assignments are on school websites, and they know you earn something, whether it's 42,000 or 43,100. If that information alone were enough to steal your identity, every soldier and government employee would be at risk.

[sui generis]

25. clearly someone with an agenda

Why don't you guys file a grievance? You are absolutely correct - what purpose is served by publishing names with salaries?

Here's an approach. Does your employment contract forbid you from discussing your wages with fellow employees? Take that ball and run with it - good luck!

[tammywammy]

26. Grievance for what? She's a public employee and hence her pay is public information

:shrug:

[sui generis]

28. yeah, hence!

and explain WHY the name is more important to list publicly than the position?

[Naturyl]

29. It's not right, BUT...

Hate to be the asshole here, but I'm not sure why people are so adamant about hiding their income. What are they ashamed of? I don't volunteer my (extremely low) income figure out of context, but I have no problem with anyone knowing it.

[greenbriar]

31. Name, place of employment and salary please

you said you had not problem with it

[Naturyl]

33. I said nothing about name.

Place of employment: none. Means of income: SSI. Monthly amount: $623.00

Your turn.

EDIT: Didn't notice you were the OP.

[greenbriar]

37. and there is the point!!! My name and exact building is now posted for all

it is all right here

www.wichitaeagle.com



Teacher


57,491.00 a year




IF that was all that was posted, I would not care...but My full legal name AND exact building is also there. That makes it scary

[Naturyl]

40. OK, I see your point.

Money is a major hot-button issue for me, so I tend to zero in on that and I sometimes miss the bigger picture as a result. Apologies for interrupting your thread.

[donco6]

32. It's published on the web here.

Names, amount paid over 12 months (not salary), benefits, position title.

Anyone working for the state, except teachers, so far. They're working on it.

[AlCzervik]

34. in california the local paper links the database of state employees, if you know

their name you can look them up and see where they work and how much they make.

[rainbow4321]

38. NJ newspaper does this also--all school employees/state & local workers, etc..

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=datauniverse01

Including ALL teachers'/staffs' salaries, years at current job/years of total experience, education level, what school they work at...

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=datauniverse08&GID=efdc+4An4hi3O0OehT/+5bTMxk3kTTrU/jdLiwbawXs%3D

NJ government retirees

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=datauniverse09

State workers' base salaries and overtime pay

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=datauniverse25

[Midlodemocrat]

46. Did that when I was teaching and they do it here as well. Doesn't bother me.

:shrug:

As a public servant, I feel that the public has a right to know where its taxes go.

[greenbriar]

47. as I said, if it were just Teacher, Salary I would have NO problem

The salary schedule is listed on the districts website,


The PROBLEM that I feel puts me at risk is publishing my name and building

not too much a stretch to find my address...other info and harm me or my credit now

[Codeine]

68. There is nothing in that information

that compromises the safety of your credit.

[greenbriar]

50. someone else thinks like I do

am amazed at the lack of news in this town. this is the thanks for being a public servant? what value is there to having neighbors know these salaries by name? i am horrified to think that there is someone out there now in india making credit cards since they have names, employer, year of employment and title -- pretty easy to verify that now right? do you want to know if they have a tatoo on their butt next?

Posted by: kingferday

[roody]

70. It saved your newspaper from having to do any work

involved with real journalism.

[GreenPartyVoter]

52. Our annual town report always lists each teacher or district employee and his/her salary or wages. I

was a bit surprised the first time I saw that.

[aikoaiko]

54. My salary is published too - I figure the public has a right to know since they pay me.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. I don't see the need for names, either. Although of course,

it's conceivable that one could piece the two bits of info together easily enough, yes?

[greenbriar]

56. true, but why make it easy. I now have to call and change phone numbers

and I may enroll in Life Lock


once again, I have no problem listing the salary schedule

I do have issues with MY personal info being spread all over the net...


They should have just said 15 teachers at this amount, 39 at this amount ect...

[tammywammy]

58. Why would you have to change phone numbers?

Are you already getting harassing calls? Unless your number is unlisted people can always find your phone number.

[greenbriar]

60. no but hubby and I are both listed in this data base...we are going to UNlist our phone

just to be safe


and one less piece of info out there



I do NOT like my privacy invaded

[gatorboy]

57. $57,000 for an elementary school teacher? Not bad, Kansas.

They make a hell of a lot less in Arkansas...

[greenbriar]

59. not elementary

but yea, I taught 2 years in a small rural arkansas school, made a 10,000 jump just moving home to Kansas

[greenbriar]

64. Many Many scared and upset teachers today

scared for our credit safety as well as personal safety!

[Hangingon]

66. Why are teachers scared? What are they scared of?

[Codeine]

69. Anybody that really, and I mean REALLY

believes that knowing what you make and where you work compromises the security of your credit probably shouldn't be teaching. As a general talking point to win an argument, sure, but an honest belief that really has you worried? Dumb.

[Township75]

67. Newspapers have done this stupid shit with other stuff too

In VA, they posted the names of everyone (and I think hometown) that got a Concealed Weapons Permint.

God knows why they had to do it. So basically, they published a nice list of homes for criminals to rob while the owners are away in order to find guns. Just as bad, one woman wrote to that paper and said she had a permit to protect her from her abusive ex-husband who she even got a restraining order from. She managed to hide with her children from him...now thanks to that, he could easily find her.

I just don't see what public interest this serves.