Anyone else bothered by Obama's sit down with 'purpose driven life' guy Rick Warren...

[cynatnite]

This weekend Obama will have a forum/debate...whatever the hell that is....with McCain.

'Purpose Driven Life' author, Rick Warren, will be moderating it.

We don't get a first debate about the economy, foreign policy, health insurance and so on.

Instead, we get a forum so Obama and McCain can spout their religious credentials. :banghead:

Don't get me wrong. Obama will get my vote, but it's shit like this that makes it hard for me to be enthusiastic about him.

[dkf]

1. I'm not religious but I like it.

He espouses a religion that isn't scary to me like all those right wing crazies. If he could get them to moderate and get rid of their intolerance, I'd be happy as a lark.

[stray cat]

2. Or perhaps talk about their values? I guess Obama wants the vote of non-secular voters as well

[babylonsister]

3. I'm not bothered about this at all, and I don't imagine it's going to be

solely about religion. Hopefully topics like poverty, disease, hatred, community, and stewardship of the environment come up.
Social issues should be discussed imo.

[cynatnite]

7. To me it comes across that they're putting religious matters first...

and what makes this even worse, IMO, it's not even a journalist doing the asking. It's a pastor. Effing insane.

[babylonsister]

10. Read this please...

I think it might be good and it sounds like religion will not be key to this discussion.

snip//

The interviews -- one hour each -- will focus on four areas, according to Warren: the role of the presidency in government, leadership, the candidates' world view and America's role internationally.

Warren said he's focused on asking both presumptive nominees questions that "don't have a lot wiggle room."

"But I do want to know how they handle a crisis, because a lot of the things in the presidency often deal with things you don't know are going to happen, that we don't know will happen in the next four years. ... There are a lot of different things you can deal with in the life of a leader that will tell us more about the candidate than some of the typical questions," he said.

Warren said he won't endorse either candidate and will let his followers make up their own minds.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/14/warren.forum/index.html

[peace13]

45. It sounds like there will be editing to do if they are one hour interviews.

The pastor will get a chance to practice his journalistic and editorial skills. Gotta love it!

[Cosmocat]

63. Warren will be INFINITELY better than ...

Stephnopolus was, or most of the hack MSM people ...

Seriously ..

Warren is one of the good guys ... IMO, an honest broker ...

This isn't going to be some Jerry Fallwell the gays are going to heck thing ...

Keep an open mind and watch it ...

You might be surprised ...

[norepubsin08]

27. Don't bet on it

Not with Rick Warren moderating it. That guy is a neo-christo-facist pig. He only cares about how much profit he's raking in!

[elocs]

41. I reckon there are scores of people here at DU who believe that any and every Christian

is a "neo-christo-fascist pig". In fact, all religious people are suspect to them.

[tekisui]

4. Any Dem would probably do that this year.

We have to get votes.

[rateyes]

5. Actually, McCain and Obama will not be on stage together.

Personally, I think this is a good idea for Obama. If McCain was the only one to accept the invitation, Obama would be accused of snubbing the religious community. And, like it or not, that constituency usually votes. However, it's not a given that they will vote Republican--especially from Warren's church.

Warren doesn't fit in well with "lock-step" religious right politics.

[cynatnite]

8. n/t

[cali]

12. Shocking. Shocking I tell you that a candidate for President would

try to appeal to the vast majority in this country who are religious.

[peace13]

17. Shocking!

And religion could be framed as a lunchable instead of a Thanksgiving feast. I am so sick of the faux religious in this country lining up behind their Christian *resident while he kills, rapes and steals his way into their hearts. Like it or not we have millions of sick people in this country. If you think this non mainstream preacher is going to melt the hearts of the Bush-sane you are kidding yourself. At what point does the Dem candidate frame a 'debate' in a format that highlights the candidate?

[cali]

22. LOL! Since when is

religion defined as a "thanksgiving feast" and what does "it should be framed as a lunchable" even mean? Babble. First of all, most religious folks are not behind bushco. Secondly, YOU can't define religion for anyone but your little old self.

And sorry, Appealing to the majority of voters is how you get elected. duh.

[peace13]

25. Sorry that you missed my point.

You seem to pride yourself for being a deep thinker. My point is that if Obama has to kiss the ass of the ' religious' folk he could do it in smaller, less visible portions. You are really rude at times and disregard anyone else's point of view. I would love to know how you support our candidate in the real world. I happen to be in the trenches volunteering, donating and supporting our local Obama team. If I disagree with him from time to time it doesn't mean that I am not working my *utt off for him.

[LanternWaste]

28. Don't politicians pander to most demographics?

Don't politicians pander to most demographics? :shrug:

[cynatnite]

55. My bad...you're right. n/t

[Sal316]

6. I'm not.

We don't get a first debate about the economy, foreign policy, health insurance and so on.

Don't count on that.

[blondeatlast]

9. Warren ahs a huge, fairly middle-of-the-road following. I'm not worried at all. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

49. Middle of the road?

For bigots, maybe he is the middle of the road. But in terms of thinking people, he is a right wing religous nut case who opposes the equality of all Americans.

[QC]

65. A little info on the 'moderate' Rick Warren:

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/faith_and_politics/rick_warren_moderate_1.html

Here's an especially interesting bit, from a Ugandan newspaper:

Dr Warren said that homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right. "We shall not tolerate this aspect at all," Dr Warren said.

Yep, he's some moderate alright.

[blondeatlast]

70. I didn't call him a moderate. He most certainly isn't that. nt

[bunkerbuster1]

11. It's a fight--er, discussion--Obama welcomes.

I say let's hope he emerges victorious, and McCain comes off like the petty, nasty little man he can be.

(Edited to add) Yes, I realize this is not a "debate" but rather an opportunity for both candidates to score points. I think Obama will do very well, in this environment--he's clearly comfortable, and I suspect McCain is not.

[peace13]

13. In my eyes this is a joke on the thinking Americans.

Obama needs to focus on issues and facts and getting the message out under his own control not by trusting a mediator, paster slash guru. He needs to get on the ground here in states like Ohio. I don't mean flying in for two hours and speechify. He needs to see what the people in his office are dealing with and address those issues. He seems to be into stroking and that is a recipe for disaster. Separation of church and state. What is so hard to understand.

[babylonsister]

16. He can talk all he wants, but if no one airs what he says, what's the

point? This is a nat'l platform; I think he's smart to take it because hopefully a lot of people will be watching.

[Gabi Hayes]

14. warren: homophobe much?

Dr Rick Warren said that homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right. “We shall not tolerate this aspect at all,” Dr Warren said.

Warren was speaking in support of Ugandan Anglicans who intend to boycott the forthcoming Lambeth Conference, and this harsh rejection of tolerance for gays and lesbians may have serious consequences in a country where homosexuals face harrassment and and the threat of imprisonment.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/24/rick-warren-what-a-guy/

[Dhalgren]

19. Well, there you go.

Now it makes perfect sense why Obama and McCain would both want this forum. Running for Emperor is a hate-filled job, especially running for the last Emperor...


:bounce:

[cynatnite]

21. He's anti-choice, too n/t

[MadHound]

15. Obama has come to the conclusion that the religious, no matter their creed, must be pandered too

It is rather disturbing. I don't mind discussions like this, what bothers me are Obama's policy positions favoring religion, like his promise to expand faith based funding.

We really, really need to get religion out of our politics. We've already seen too much of this, we don't need to see anymore.

[peace13]

23. I hear that!

'Faith' based funding is the biggest joke on the country. Hope to *ell that I never have to crawl into a church to beg for a biscuit that my government paid for. I feel sorry for everyone who has to do it. Personally I would rather steal than go begging at the church for federal cheese. This is all about votes and nothing more.

[CrispyQ]

43. "This is all about votes and nothing more."

So true. And becoming more like republicans has worked so well for us in the past. :eyes: When are the dems going to wake up & realize this strategy doesn't work? :banghead:


"Personally I would rather steal than go begging at the church for federal cheese." Damn straight!!

:hi:

[rebel with a cause]

91. Evidently neither of you has ever been to the point where you

have had to go begging for food or help. The government offers very little help these days to those in need. Many, if not most, of the food banks are located in churches. I don't personally go to church, but I have heard from others that there are special offerings taken up to buy food for these pantries when they run low, which most of them are doing these days because the need is so bad. I am anti organized religion, but I recognize that all churches, just as all people, are not the same. There are good and bad in everything, and just because I do not believe the same as they do does not mean I can sit in judgment of them or put down any good work they do.

I have been to the point where I was so hungry that I was in pain and my children cried themselves to sleep because they were so hungry. I was forced to go to a church and ask for help because the government had papers to be filed and red tape to go through before they could give me any help. The church not only gave me food from their pantry immediately but also a voucher to take to an area store where I picked up milk, meat and so on. This was many years ago, but I can tell you that I still remember the look on my kid's faces when they saw we had food and they could eat enough to take away their pain. Personally I would rather beg than steal, but that is just the way I believe. Pride is not more important than honor to me.

[rox63]

26. Umm... Obama is a church-going Christian...

And as such, he's much more comfortable talking about religion than McCain is. Is it fair to call it pandering when he is talking to a group with whom he shares several core beliefs?

[cynatnite]

31. Name a politician who doesn't pander...

They all do.

I'm a little bothered by the pandering, but it's the fact that he's sitting down with a pastor/guru who is anti-choice and anti-gay. If it was a real journalist and Obama was pressing his religious credentials...I wouldn't have such a problem with it.

[MadHound]

32. Is it right for him to promise to continue and expand, the assault on the separation of church/state

I fully realize that the majority of people in this country, including Obama, are of one Christian stripe or another. I have no problem with that, nor do I have a problem with him addressing religious groups. However I have a huge problem with his proposed expansion of faith based funding, since this is a direct assault on the separation of church and state. Democrats and liberals denounced faith based funding on just these very terms when Bush proposed it. Yet now, somehow, when Obama proposes to expand it, it's all hunky-dorey? Sorry, but that's wrong.

If Obama wants to try and court the religious right in this country, fine. But don't give away the farm trying to win these people over. I seriously doubt that he's going to pick up very many of these people, no matter what he does, because several evangelical sects, despite their religious "love thy neighbor" rhetoric are actually quite racist and wouldn't vote for a black man if their lives depended on it.

This is a secular nation, one rooted in the separation of church and state. We need to start remembering, and acting on that concept again, rather than bringing further religion into our public life.

[cynatnite]

34. Well said! n/t

[npincus]

18. No. It guarantees an audience that is inclined to vote w/the GOP

but could be persuaded to go towards the light.

[H2O Man]

20. No.

Obama knows exactly what he is doing. Religious voters will determine the outcome of the November election. It is a good move on his part.

[TNOE]

24. You nailed it again H2O.

Exactly what I was going to say. His campaign obviously knows what it is doing - and it doing it all well - just let it play out. This part of our population needs to see and hear Obama.

[TexasObserver]

30. Can I get a "whoop, whoop!"?

If the middle voters were known to love cats insanely, I'd want him appearing at Ceiling Cat's house, or doing a town meeting at Kitty Cat Palace.

If he's not trying to win the votes he doesn't yet have, he's doing the wrong thing.

Obama is a bright guy. He'll do the smart thing.

[Marrah_G]

39. Although I agree it is a good move politically...

I have to be completely honest and say that it makes me cringe... alot. It's a forum that I will not be tuning in to.

[CrispyQ]

29. A hearty "Fuck you!" to those of us who aren't religious

& want to keep religion out of government. But then, we are the minority, so it doesn't matter. :eyes:

They could have selected a moderator who isn't affiliated with a religious organization.

[ourbluenation]

48. I'm not religious and I could care less about this. No "fuck you" to me.

He's a Christian going to talk at a christian church. It's a free country. Why does it bother you so much?

[CrispyQ]

59. Obama is not just a Christian man addressing a Christian group;

he's a candiate running for president of our country & this visit is during his campaign. Controversy could have been avoided if they had simply chosen a secular moderator & forum.

He has stated that he will continue government support of faith based programs. Is that ok too? I'm surprised that so many on a liberal board are not bothered that our elected reps support policies that allow encroachment of religion into our government.

[scarletwoman]

85. This is Rick Warren's idea -- there is no "they"! Warren invited them to speak at his church and

Obama and McCain accepted.

Rick Warren set this up, this is completely his deal.

This is NOT one of the "official" presidential debates.

[TexasObserver]

58. I'm not religious at all, but I favor Obama's choices here.

I'm not religious, but many of the voters are religious. Obama is religious, although not dramatically so. He has to play to these middle voters who have shallow knowledge and sometimes shalllow thoughts.

If he goes to Bob Jones, I'm upset.

If he visits the Pope, I'm gagged, but in agreement with the purpose.

If he dances with Wiccans at Stonehenge, I'm worried. Not because I don't like Wiccans, but because it will hurt his chances. He has to get elected. Eating tamales, kissing babies, and not pissing on the religious is part of getting elected in the US of A.

[CrispyQ]

64. So, the Pope & Rick Warren are ok, but Bob Jones & the Wiccans are not?

What about Muslims? Or atheists? Would those two groups be ok? Or are they way to risky for the ignorant middle voters that everyone is so damned concerned about. Why is keeping religion out of our government & our campaigns viewed as being disrespectful of religion?

How many of our convictions do we have to betray to "get the votes?" Becoming more like republicans to win elections hasn't been a successful strategy so far. How many elections will we have to lose before we return to the values that make us democrats?

If the dem party wants to get more voters, they would be better served by returning to core populist values & go for the 55% of eligible voters who feel that no one represents them so why the hell vote.

[TexasObserver]

76. If I have to explain it ...

... explaining it won't help.

[CrispyQ]

78. Whatever.

:eyes:

x(

[TexasObserver]

111. whatever!

What are you, 11 years old?

[magellan]

86. So it's okay to discriminate if it wins votes??

Wow. I need to check my bookmarks. I thought this was DU.

[scarletwoman]

89. Discriminate? Who's being discriminated against?

The leader of a religious organization has invited the candidates to participate in a Q&A at his church. It's Rick Warren's own private deal.

It's no more discriminatory than if the American Hog Farmers Association asked the candidates to speak at their headquarters. You may be a vegetarian who abhors the idea of killing animals for food, but you are not being discriminated against just because the candidates are speaking to hog farmers.

Same deal here. You may abhor religion, but you are not being discriminated against just because the candidates are speaking to a religious organization.

[magellan]

98. Respectfully, that's your opinion

Whether it's private or not isn't the issue. Obama accepted the invitation. And as you point out in your other reply to me, it's only because Rick Warren is rich and famous and commands a substantial religious following.

Unless you believe America was meant to be guided by Christian doctrine and the establishment clause wasn't intended as a backstop against the integration of church and state, I don't see how you can approve of Obama's decision...except on grounds of pure political expediency. Which only leads to more and more of this kind of religious pandering for votes.

I don't abhor religion. I just don't want it in my government. And I may not be rich or famous or part of an influential church, but as an American citizen with my own beliefs I deserve the same attention Rick Warren and his followers get. That won't happen, so it shouldn't happen AT ALL.

[scarletwoman]

100. Of COURSE it's "poltical expediency"! That's what you do when you're running for office.

You go out and speak to lots of different constituencies in the hope that they will decide to vote for you. Because if enough people vote for you, you will win the election.

Duh.

[magellan]

104. So much for respect

You don't hear, you don't care to. Well, people like me aren't interested in a furtherance of the games that are weakening and dividing this country; we want GENUINE change not lip service. And until the party faithful figure that out don't count on what's broken being fixed.

[H2O Man]

103. You are, of

course, correct. This is a pretty simple concept.

[scarletwoman]

106. Thanks, Waterman. I thought it was a pretty simple concept, too. (nt)

[TexasObserver]

112. it's ok for you to run around the room with your hair on fire

If you ever start talking rationally, let me know.

[magellan]

116. Whoever you are

...please do the same.

[QC]

67. And to many of us who *are* religious as well.

I am a Christian, but I have little use for hateful fundamentalists like Rick Warren.

[scarletwoman]

84. Who is this "they" you're complaining about?

"They could have selected a moderator who isn't affiliated with a religious organization."

I don't think you understand what this is about. This is totally Rick Warren's deal. It was his idea, and he asked Obama and McCain if they would do it and they said yes.

It's not a media-hosted event, nor is it a debate. They each get one hour to speak separately on the topics that Rick Warren has chosen.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[msongs]

35. obama wants to give your paycheck to churches for faith based crap n warren fits in nt

[babylonsister]

53. You're so full of it, as usual. Gotta link? nt

[Iggo]

36. Nope.

[Missy Vixen]

37. If we were, does it matter?

We have no choice. We'll vote for him. At the same time, I am more than a bit amused by those who are still insisting he stands for us. I don't embrace an organized religion, and neither do millions of other voters.

Julie

[Marrah_G]

40. Nope doesn't matter

McCain is too scary to have control of nukes. This shit makes me uncomfortable but I couldn't see myself not voting this year.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Considering how many in the target demographic think he is a Muslim,

I think this is a good move - it will put him on stage with a not-uber-nutso religious guy and his opponent and the general public will see him as being generally in accord with the guy's more mainstream thought - that he's not a Muslim, not a radical black liberation guy, nor (at the other end) a fundie theocrat.

A good opportunity for him to define himself.

The other topics are more vital, it is true, but people have to be willing to listen to him first, which they won't do as long as they think he is "the other". The ignorant will tune in to hear McCain reassure them about his own religious cred, but they will hear Obama make the better case.

[thereismore]

42. Rick Warren is the least objectionable evangelical author. nt

[G_j]

50. my brother basically thought Jesus was a Repbublican

until he joined Warren's church.
Now he says he will vote for Obama.

I'm not complaining!

[Bluenorthwest]

52. So you say

"Homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right. “We shall not tolerate this aspect at all.” Dr Rick Warren.

[thereismore]

73. Oh come on. Where did I say that I agree with him? nt

[defendandprotect]

62. There isn't any organized patriarchal "religious" teaching which benefits

the earth ---

It's all anti-nature, anti-animal life ---

it's all based on exploitation of natural resources ---

and, in fact, exploitation of other human beings ---

It was from Papal Bulls and religous authority that we ended up with genocide

vs the native American --- with enslavement of Africans in America ---

with another 100 years of Segretarion,Inc. based on "Bibble" teachings ---


These are authoritarian systems based on patriarchy which must be overturned ---

[thereismore]

75. I still think there are degrees to everything. nt

[saltpoint]

44. He is asking to be the president for all the people, so politically it

makes good sense.

On top of that, it likely exposes McCain as a shallow nobody in the spiritual zone and introduces Obama as someone who knows what he's talking about across settings.

[YvonneCa]

72. I love your posts...

...OC! Always so very perceptive... :)

[Romulox]

46. You come and go, you come and goooooo....

[Renew Deal]

47. No problem

:shrug:

[MJW]

51. it makes sense politically

but it gives me an uneasy feeling. Warren gives me the willies .

[alfredo]

54. We call that go to the "belly of the beast." It's smart to do what Obama

is doing if he can deliver the goods. Obama is well versed in the rhetoric of the church, and can fire and brimstone with the best of them.

[MadHound]

57. Yes he can. He can also tear down the church/state wall with the best of them

Which is apparently what he's willing to do in order to get a handful of votes from the religious RW. Selling out liberals, the non-religious, our government all for thirty pieces of silver, or thirty votes, whichever is greater.

If I want fire and brimstone, I've got many options. I want a decent president who will restore this country's greatness. Promising increased aid to faith based charities is not a step in the right direction. Cozying up to the religiously insane isn't a good move either.

Here's a novel approach, trying leaving the religious pandering out of the picture.

[alfredo]

71. Let's wait and see what he says before condemning him. At first

I was concerned about his "faith based initiative" stand, but I saw he wanted to keep the religious groups involved, but without the abuses built into bush's version of religious community involvement. Obama knows well how important the church has been to the black community. He cut his political teeth working with community churches.

Encouraging churches to actually use their tax free money to do as Christ was reputed to do, is not a bad thing, just leave the preaching in the church, not on our dime.

BTW, I'm an Atheist.

[DangerDave921]

81. agree in part

I agree there should be no pandering to religion. But how is Obama cozying up to the religiously insane?

[Enrique]

56. I expect they will discuss all those things

the economy, foreign policy, health insurance, etc.

[defendandprotect]

60. I agree . . . how about Global Warming? Male violence? Capitalistic corruption?

[yardwork]

61. It's not Obama - it's the fascist system. Obama has to play nice with the religious

otherwise, we lose another election.

I agree with you that it is stupid - heck, it's worse than stupid, it's evil - but a Democratic candidate can't get elected in this country right now unless they play along with the so-called Christian lobby.

[vanlassie]

66. Is McCain Religous? nt

[tammywammy]

68. Nope, no problem

[otohara]

69. Nope - Obama Will Shine

vs McCain, and that's a good thing. Hey we want to make sure there's no room for hanky panky this year and get as many votes as possible.

When these people see how comfortable Obama is with Christianity and how much smarter he is about the bible, compaired to how uncomfortable McCain will look - the choice for them won't be so damn easy.

Obama isn't Bush - I'm totally okay with him being religious. He went to a very cool church.

[DangerDave921]

74. What about church and state??? LOL

[Lilith Velkor]

80. That's like, sooo last millennium, dude.

[Vinca]

77. It's complete and total BS, unless . . .

Rick Warren asks McBush about his history as an adulterer. If that gets asked, I might go looking for Jesus.:rofl:

[SoCalDem]

79. I HATE the idea that any candidate now, has to "pass muster" by some religious guy

who probably just hasn't had HIS dirty laundry aired yet..but our candidates have to "bare their souls" and prove that they are somehow religious enough to be president..

and the fact that anyone who dares to say "no" is immediately somehow suspect...and unelectable..

Actually, I want a president who is a believer in the "Golden Rule", and I don't care if he goes to church or prays ..

He's not running for High Priest of the USA.

[varelse]

82. Yes, I am

you're not alone. It is unnerving, and it is bad news for the principle of separation of church and state.

[blues90]

83. What does it matter?

No matter which freak of a fool wins in November nothing will change. No one can fix this mess that we have, looking at who's been offered as a choice for president.

Religion to me has NO place in politics. One you use it to pander to gain votes it then is part of a bonded to politics.

If this is always the case then force every single religous group to pay taxes unless they can prove without doubt they are not running for profit or political causes.

This entire election is like watching some 50's black and white horror film right after the nuclear blast.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. I find all pandering and reaching out to religious groups, any religious group

totally regressive.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

101. Let's play a little game...

Take The Following Sentence:

"I don't like it that Obama is reaching out to Christian Evangelicals"

And then replace the words "Christian Evangelicals" with any one of the following words:

Jews
Blacks
Latinos

You be a racist, anti-semetic dumb fuck, now wouldn't you?

I guess if you practice intolerance toward the right people, you still get to call yourself a liberal.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

114. That is totally bullshit and I'm sure of coure that you know that. Religion should have absolutely

no place in determining government policy.

And as a Jew, I find it equally distasteful when Jews have been pandered to.

[magellan]

88. All I want to know is when do us non-evangelists get equal time?

I have as much right to a belief-specific public forum with the candidates as Rick Warren and his church.

[scarletwoman]

90. When you are as rich and famous as Rick Warren.

It seems to me that most of the people complaining about this are completely clueless about the fact that this is a PRIVATE organization that set this up. This is completely Rick Warren's baby.

This is NOT a public forum, this is NOT an official presidential debate. This is no different than if the American Tree Surgeons Association headed by Dr. Pine Sap asked the candidates to come speak to their group.

Dr. Pine Sap, however, is not as rich and famous or influential as Rick Warren, so his group wouldn't get the same amount of publicity.

[magellan]

97. Thank you for pointing out the fatal flaw in our gov't system

Not that we didn't already know it, but influence and money talk.

My point is it's the candidate's choice to entertain invitations like this or not. It's no surprise that McCain jumped on board. But I expect more of a Democratic candidate.

[scarletwoman]

99. So, you would have Obama cede the religious vote to McCain?

And what would that accomplish other than making it harder for Obama to win the election?

You may not like that religion plays such a big part in U.S. politics, but the fact is, it does. So a candidate who wants to win an election does not have the luxury of ignoring the religious vote.

It's in the long term interest of us all to pull some of these people away from the reactionary right.

[magellan]

105. He is not going to pull them away from the clutches of the right

...unless he lies to them or compromises with them. The first will ensure they never vote Dem again. The second hurts ALL of us.

This is how the Democratic Party has been pulled to the right over time, and it will continue. You may like that idea; personally I see nothing of a 'win' in it.

[tannybogus]

92. I am going to vote for Obama.

However, didn't he get completely scorched for voluntarily attending a church with "hate-filled rhetoric." (MSM words)

Aren't Warren's pronouncements about homosexuals also hateful? Isn't Obama's presence there a tacit approval of this message?

Boy oh boy if that comes up. Then the whole nation will be distracted for who knows how long about "how many homosexuals

can dance on the head of a pin." Tweety can talk about thrills going up his leg or whatever. I know he is trying to get every

vote he can, this is smart politics, etc....All I know is you better drag your child into the "right" place of worship (whatever that is)

right now, if they have any hope of even running for dogcatcher. That's apparently where we are headed.

Obama is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.:yoiks:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

93. Nope.....

....and I'm an agnostic.

[tomg]

94. I'm not bothered by it,

although I would prefer that Bill Moyers moderate a public discussion between the candidates concerning the values that serve as the basis for the kinds of policies they will initiate and regarding the world views underlying the decisions that they make. I will gladly take Jim Wallis of Sojourners as a close second. By the way, I am agnostic (Oh God, if there is a God, save my soul if I have a soul. Or Not).

In the great scheme of things this can only help Obama. He is clearly at ease talking about the values and beliefs that have shaped his life, unlike McCain who is not. Many Evangelicals (as opposed to fundies) are often very progressive, particularly as regards issues regarding poverty, the environment and peace. Two of the most progressive people I know are strong Evangelicals.

[napi21]

95. I think it's a good thing. Barack wants all the voters to realize he's

an honest man who has THEIR best interests at heart, and his personal beliefs are NOT those of Rev. Wright! There are a lot of Evangelicals who are very uncomfortable with McNut. It would be foolish for Barack to overlook that and try to get their vote.

[Ellen Forradalom]

96. It's a big voting bloc. They've both decided to play for it

:shrug:

[yasmina27]

102. I'm only going to watch it

for the first-round comparison between Obama and McCain. My bet is that Obama will come across as far more authentic and real than McCain.

When I saw the 2 of them give their acceptance speeches for one of the primaries (I forget which, but it was before McSame clinched the nomination), I said that I couldn't wait for these 2 guys to go head-to-head. Barack will blow him away!

[Philosoraptor]

107. I FUCKING HATE IT!

[Philosoraptor]

108. I FUCKING HATE IT!

[johnaries]

109. I'm a philosophical Daoist, but I think this is a good thing.

Among other things, it will help dispel those Obama is a Muslim rumors. Although I wouldn't have a problem if he was - there are radical Christians just as bad as the radical Muslims, but the radicals are a small percentage of both groups.

[SmokingJacket]

110. Yeah, I hate it.

But if it puts Obama in front of an audience that would otherwise dismiss him out of hand, I can deal.

[W_HAMILTON]

115. Oh, they'll still dismiss him

If not instantly afterwards, they'll do so once Fox News points out his errors, and nitpick his every word.

So, what was the purpose again? The type of crowd he was catering to, wouldn't have their opinions changed after last night. However, he could put off potential supporters, for some of the overly religious topics he talked about last night.

I, for one, know I was turned off. I don't like people flaunting their religion, especially when its only purpose seems to be to pander towards the religious crowd.

[W_HAMILTON]

113. I wasn't bothered by the thought of it

But watching it, I was bothered by it.

It was heavily religious. After watching it, I wondered again, why Obama is supposed to be so different? He's doing the same things every other candidate gets crucified for (no pun intended). Some people are fooling themselves if they think Obama is any different than most other politicians that they criticize. He's doing the same sort of pandering, he believes the same sort of things, etc.

I was actually a little disappointed in Obama after watching him last night. It seemed like more of the same.

I sure hope he wins.

[roody]

117. I'm not interested in that evangelical Xian cult.

I grew up in it, and have stayed far, far away from it all my adult life. Didn't watch the show---I rarely watch tv, and it is broken.