Tenn. teen battles school's Confederate flag ban

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

Tenn. teen battles school's Confederate flag ban
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD – 1 day ago

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tommy DeFoe wore his Southern pride on his Confederate flag belt buckle Wednesday as he argued in federal court that a school dress code banning such items violated his free speech rights.

"I am fighting for my heritage and my rights as a Southerner and an American," said the lanky DeFoe, 18, during a break in the trial that started Monday in his lawsuit against the Anderson County School Board and several county education officials.

DeFoe says his great-great uncle served in the Confederate army and "died for the South" in the Civil War.

More at link.....

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iPv1gDn879qOc_pnD6_d5lw3NAQQD92HMFO04

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Wish we had just let them go.

Every time I read something like this ...

Skip the Civil War. Let the South secede. Have absolutely no trade ties with them ever.

Too late now.

[madeline_con]

3. A big thanks from the SOUTH here.

We're not all rebel wannabes who think racism and waving the Star and Bars at people just to be dicks is cool. :rant:

[FiveGoodMen]

10. No, I know that not everyone in the south is like that.

Look: my family is full of the worst type of 25%er, Bush-supporting fundies. They suck Satan's cock. It's that simple.

If you were to observe that and say bad things about my family, I would only point out that there are a few exceptions, but otherwise I'd agree.

----

The Confederate flag keeps on being an issue because there are many who feel that the rebels were right. Many still call the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression" -- on TV -- I've seen it. They always point to their 'heritage' as though keeping slaves is okay if you've got a cool word for it.

There's nothing wrong with decent people who live in the southern states, but there's still something mightily wrong with the SOUTH.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tesha]

28. It's against DU rules to announce you've alerted.

You'd better alert on yourself.

Tesha

[isentropic]

35. Did you forget the "can you tell I'm just fucking with you" smilie?

:D

[dysfunctional press]

41. that was an "attack"...?

:shrug:

is the whole south that touchy?

[Hugabear]

62. My entire family is from the South - and I wholeheartedly agree

There's something wrong with the South. Granted, there are a few pockets of sanity throughout the South, but once you get out into the countryside, it's almost like stepping through a time vortex.

[tannybogus]

36. You've seen it on TV.

Well that settles that! I am bone wearily tired of having to continue to answer for every idiot who is on TV or radio or whatever.

There are people here who won't let the war go. I know because I am kin to some of them. A lot of people down here fight the good fight

and keep trying to move forward. We can't get over the War by whatever name you want to call it. Some people who live here won't let it

go and neither will people like you. It shouldn't completely be forgotten because then that runs the risk of forgetting slavery and its

evils.

I have so much cognitive dissonance at times I think I will just explode. I will not even begin to justify slavery, the War, Jim crow and

all of that. Neither will I attempt to claim that everything is AOK today. However, I cannot stand the continued drip, drip, drip of

generic insults aimed at the whole region. You hit everybody in this area when you do that. I want to explode because if I try to defend

where I live in any way, a lot of people think I am an unreconstructed Rebel. Letting the remarks go though is to allow stereotypes to exist.


You talk about "the SOUTH." It is not one monolithic region made up of the same type of people. It is as diverse as any area in the country.

"The SOUTH" doesn't exist for me. Break those letters apart and look at us. Screw TV. I'll give you a tour of this region, backwoods and all.

It might surprise you.

Now everybody - flame away. :hi:

[Flying Dream Blues]

56. Willful ignorance is abhorrent in ALL its many presentations. Look in the mirror. nt

[johnaries]

88. Obviously you've never been here.

Don't judge the South by a few loud-mouths. And don't forget how the South was raped by the North during "Reconstruction", so don't be so self-righteous.

[Clark2008]

108. Wow... and you think this guy's the bigot.

What about the majority of us down here who never fly that thing?

Bigoted against us, too?

[FiveGoodMen]

130. For what it's worth...

My post was kind of extreme, so I won't argue about that.

For clarification: The SOUTH I'm talking about is not a geographical region or the entire population of the SE US. I'm ragging on a mentality which equates pre-Civil War slavery and post-Civil War discrimination with some kind of honorable 'heritage'.

It's the Proud Southern Heritage(TM) that I'm on about.

[Parche]

2. Stupid Is As Stupid Does

:shrug: :popcorn: :hi:

[cobalt1999]

4. Schools don't have freedom of speech rights

They can stop students from wearing Confederate Flag shirts and Obama '08 shirts.

No one is stopping him from wearing that outside the school though.

[dems_rightnow]

5. Exactly so

I fully support schools' right to set and enforce their own dress codes.

[galledgoblin]

7. I'm not so sure of that

if black armbands worn in schools during Vietnam were constitutionally protected free speech, why wouldn't Obama tees and confederate flag belt buckles be protected as well?

not to say that wearing the confederate flag doesn't flag you as an asshole who rejects that same constitution and the rights given within...

[noamnety]

18. Yep, you are right.

The students do have the right generally to express their own political beliefs in a public school. There was a recent ruling allowing a student to wear a gay rights shirt at school - everyone here seemed to cheer that. The flip side is that students are also allowed to express opposing views.

[cobalt1999]

40. Well, I guess he should be allowed to wear it.

Fair is fair.

[cynatnite]

103. Schools are not free speech zones...

Schools have the right to ban speech they deem might be considered inflammatory or offensive. Some people feel the Confederate flag is exactly that.

[galledgoblin]

112. the Supreme Court tends to disagree (n/t)

[cynatnite]

116. Not true...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/25/free.speech/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court ruled against a former high school student Monday in the "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" banner case -- a split decision that limits students' free speech rights.

Joseph Frederick was 18 when he unveiled the 14-foot paper sign on a public sidewalk outside his Juneau, Alaska, high school in 2002.

Principal Deborah Morse confiscated it and suspended Frederick. He sued, taking his case all the way to the nation's highest court.

The justices ruled that Frederick's free speech rights were not violated by his suspension over what the majority's written opinion called a "sophomoric" banner. (Watch the banner unfurl and launch a legal battle Video)

"It was reasonable for (the principal) to conclude that the banner promoted illegal drug use-- and that failing to act would send a powerful message to the students in her charge," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the court's 6-3 majority. Breyer noted separately he would give Morse qualified immunity from the lawsuit, but did not sign onto the majority's broader free speech limits on students. (Opinionexternal link)

Roberts added that while the court has limited student free speech rights in the past, young people do not give up all their First Amendment rights when they enter a school.

*****

Speech rights of public school students....

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/studentspeech.htm

[galledgoblin]

132. hence the "tends"

in general, the SC comes down on the side of protecting free speech. that case was an exception.

[tannybogus]

6. Take it DOWN! Leave it be in history!

My great-great whatevers fought in the war too. I live in SC and we are still battling over taking it off the statehouse.

Take it DOWN! and please don't lump everybody down here together. We aren't all members of the nose-pickin' Snopes clan.

Faulkner said it best. "The past isn't over. It isn't even past."

[bluestateguy]

8. He should vote for Bob Barr

John McCain does not stand with his cause. John McCain is not a real conservative.

[tularetom]

9. I'm 1/8 German. I guess that I should "fight for my heritage"

by suing somebody for not letting me wear a belt buckle with a swastika on it.

Sounds like a little punk tryin to prove he's a man by being a bigot. Fuck him and his "heritage".

BTW I spent the first 10 years of my life in TN. I'm pretty sure I had great great uncles die on both sides of the Civil War and I'd be willing to bet that none of them actually knew what the fuck they died for.

[isentropic]

12. I'm 1/4 German and I wouldn't wear a swastika buckle but I don't want anyone telling me I can NOT

How much of the 1st Amendment are we willing to sacrifice to accomodate every single person who finds something offensive? It's really pretty simple...either you support it or you don't.

[DavidMS]

52. Bad Analogy

Its more like the Red-Black-Gold as an analogy. Except that those types of southerners didn't develop or discover anything. While there are plenty of Germans who won the noble prize, wrote great literature (Grass, Doeblin, etc), performed great music (Mahler, Motzart), furthered our understanding of philosophy (Kant), and produced art (Gropius and others), I can't think of any real Confederate or member of the white (and yellow) sheet brigade that has produced any art, scientific discovery, or literature of note.

There are southerners who have written things worth reading (Mark Twain, Tennessee Williams, Faulkner), but they weren't confederate apologists.

[mitchum]

61. But...but...but...the confederacy produced a submarine...that promptly sank

And Robert E Lee looked...y'know...really...sorta...dignified or somethin'

[isentropic]

71. That's pretty funny, actually, because most DUers are more than willing to heap aspersions

on the knuckledraggers who call for the banning of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. Isn't irony delicious?
:D

[Swamp Rat]

85. "Most DUers?" You just got here.

After the assumption you made about my post below, I went back and read more of your posts.

I recommend the cessation of definitive statements about how other DUers think until you have been here long enough to get to know us.

[isentropic]

104. I've been reading for 5 years.

Seriesly.

[mitchum]

34. Hell, you Germans changed the map of Europe and developed many technologies...

the confederacy couldn't even conquer Pennsylvania. And they were only able to build a submarine...that promptly sank.

[Clark2008]

115. You do realize, of course, that most manufacturing, including

weapons-grade manufacturing, is now located in the South.

Of course you don't, you're a damn Yankee. :eyes:

[mitchum]

121. Hmmm...born in, and spent my first 18 years, in South Carolina...

and have been living in Georgia for the past 6 years...yeah, I'm certainly a damn Yankee.
Maybe the reason I have such disdain for stupid crackers is because I know them so well?

[Bill McBlueState]

123. yeah,

that's because they're all "Right to Work (for less)" states.

[mitchum]

128. Exactly, and now those "right to work" southerners are finding out...

that there are people in other parts of the world who are willing to slave away for even less money

[asjr]

11. Well, after all he is from Redneckistan.

[ColbertWatcher]

13. Poor, poor victim.

Will no one think of this poor oppressed victim?

Someone?

Anyone?

[isentropic]

14. I do. I think he actually -is- the victim of political correctness run amuck.

bah humbug.
If nobody made a big production out of this, the guy would stick that buckle in his dresser drawer and it would be forgotten.

[ColbertWatcher]

15. I doubt it. He sounds like a classic attention whore.

If his belt buckle didn't get him the attention he desired, it would be a new haircut, or a "heritage" shirt, or cape or how his car is painted, or a new tattoo on his face, or...blah, blah, blah...this could go on forever...

[isentropic]

16. Well, he might go postal but the best way to deal with idiots* like that

is to ignore them.

* Is idiot still okay to use here?

[ColbertWatcher]

17. Using the word "idiots"? Depends on how you use it, I'd guess.

The fear that he may go postal is no excuse for not holding him accountable for his behavior.

[isentropic]

19. I certainly agree, but what exactly is the behavior you feel he should be held accountable for?

I am confused.

[ColbertWatcher]

21. According to TFA...

DeFoe was suspended "...more than 40 times for violating the dress code before he received his certificate of completion from the county vocational school last fall.

They feared DeFoe's Confederate flag shirts and belt buckle could inflame racial tensions and violence.

I think 40 chances is enough.

[isentropic]

23. See how perception skews opinion? To me, 40 suspensions reeks of

jackbooted totalitarianism. :D
I'm pretty confident in my belief that if this kid had been wearing a belt buckle with a peace sign on it and was treated that way, outrage would be de rigeur here. What do you think?
:-)

[ColbertWatcher]

29. A peace symbol is not a hate symbol; the confederate flag is.

I think the problem the school (and district) made was not being firm enough.

Apparently the school had some kind of dress code. He violated the dress code. Repeatedly. And they didn't do anything more than suspend him each time he broke the rules.

Whenever you're dealing with a child, if you set boundaries and are not firm with them about the boundaries, the kids lose respect in both the "authority figures" and the "institution". Perhaps the kid started out having no respect for people whose kin weren't Confederate veterans? Or perhaps he saw they weren't serious about their dress code?

I just want to know: was the dress code universally disliked by all the students? Was he the only student who dared violate it in any manner? Or was it altered to include this new, heretofore unknown preferred style of dress, unique to only this child in this particular town? Does the dress code also prohibit any symbol (peace, corporate logos, etc) ? Or does the dress code only target the pre-victimized heritage-fetishists?

I just hope some adult isn't putting stupid ideas into this impressionable young man's head and using him to promote their ideology.

[isentropic]

32. Your conclusion might just be correct but there really isn't enough information

to determine that, is there? And I vehemently disagree that a Confederate flag is intrinsically a hate symbol. It might recall a period of maltreatment but which people in 2008 have absolutely no connection, let alone responsibility, unless you subscribe to the Biblical warning about 'the sins of the sons...unto the 7th generation' or whatever that nonsense is...

What pisses me off is how people nowadays are so fragile and delicate that they've lost the ability to look at someone demonstrating idiotic behavior and just call them out on it! Tell the kid "you're about a dumbfuck, Goober" and let him digest that! No, that would be too 'risky'...call the Authorities and sue somebody. Jeezus...is it any wonder we can't get Bush impeached? Our Congresscritters are too fucking afraid they might OFFEND somebody!
And from where do they get THAT mindset? I leave that as an exercise in deduction for you. :D

But you did pose some very valid questions, none of which were addressed in the little bit of information we have...and which doesn't dissuade the Political Correctness Cops here to accuse, try and convict the guy.
Bah.

edit...fixed a couple of minor typos

[Swamp Rat]

51. The confederate flag = slavery, murder, treason.... Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[isentropic]

53. Which distinguishes it from the standard American flag...how, exactly?

(I'm no fan of flags of any stripe, as it were, but just as it's true that it's just a piece of cloth when it comes to burning, it's the same rag when it comes to symbolism from 120 years ago.) YMMV
:D

[Swamp Rat]

54. Red Herring

:)

[isentropic]

66. True but hardly a refutation of my point. Nice lateral, though!

:D

[Swamp Rat]

68. Touchdown!

:D

[isentropic]

70. I'm not sure what you mean by 'touchdown' but I SURE AS HELL HOPE you're not intimating I'm a

Klansman. Anybody who called me that in person would get their balls kicked in.
:D

[Swamp Rat]

77. Nowhere in the English lexicon does the term 'touchdown' refer to the word 'Klansman'.

You said, I made a 'lateral' when I called you on the Red Herring. I merely stated it resulted in a touchdown, as in kudos for me. woohoo.

I'll take your word for it regarding the kicking in of other people's balls, and leave it at that.

[tnlefty]

65. Thanks for posting this, Swamp Rat!

There is a very violent, truly ugly side to the 'stars and bars' and I'm sick of people trying to use it as a symbol of 'the south', or 'heritage'. Jeebus isn't that part of the heritage that continues to rip us apart?

[Swamp Rat]

75. I'm from the Deep South

I reject the notion that gratuitous display of the confederate flag (on everything from belt buckles to bumper stickers) is merely pride in one's (southern) heritage, or freedom of expression. It is much more complex and insidious.

American citizens have the right to display them on private property and on their bodies. However, students at public high schools that have dress codes do not have a right to wear emblems of hate and oppression, etc.

Incidentally, my relatives and friends in Germany do not wear swastika belt buckles or fly swastika flags, and I have been asked a brazillion times why Americans wear and fly confederate flags since they are both emblems of hate, and en masse murder and oppression.

[tnlefty]

84. As I stated in post # 55, I don't view the stars and bars as a

'southern thing' but more of it's your goddamned thing. And again the stars and bars are in a picture with a swastika emblem and that's supposed to convince me that it's not a hate symbol?:crazy:

And to try to make the argument that political buttons, images of Dr. King, are somehow on the same level with the stars and bars is asinine to me.

[Swamp Rat]

87. Fallacy of Equivocation

'Gay pride button' = 'Southern pride confederate flag' and similar constructions are Fallacies of Equivocation. 'Pride' and 'heritage', while correct in their proper contexts, are the key words used in a semantic shift to slowly change the context.

Let them argue all they want. I will knock them over like bowling pins. :D

[Thothmes]

98. I believe in Germany, it is a criminal offense to display or wear

items directly connected with the Nazi regime/history.

[tnlefty]

55. I don't consider myself either fragile or delicate, but

everytime that I see the stars and bars on a t-shirt with the wording "It's a Southern thing", I'm instantly pissed and think, 'no, it's your goddamned thing and don't try to lump the entire South in with that.'

It's not "political correctness' and this isn't a case of that running amock. His arguments don't hold up very well. On the one hand, he's stating that it's because of his great, great uncle who died for "the South" and toward the end of the article he or his attorney, states some shit about 'what we believe in.' In between there are references to political buttons, images of Martin Luther King, Jr., and I was left with the impression that he just wants to be a racist punk.

Although I find it disgusting, he has the right to do that in the hours that he's out of school, but keep in mind that in this state, along with some others, the stars and bars has a different significance than political buttons, etc.

[isentropic]

69. Oh, I have no problem with an evenly-enforced "dress code".

But I guess I don't get how it's -not- a southern thing. I'm a southerner and it sure looks to me as if it is.
I've travelled for a living for 45 years and I never see them north of the MD line...

[tnlefty]

78. As stated, it's not a 'southern thing' as in the whole south

doesn't either embrace or rejoice in the stars and bars.

As for your second sentence, it should speak for itself.

[Swamp Rat]

80. These guys are in Indiana

[FiveGoodMen]

133. ...and they shouldn't wear that shit to school, either.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. How was it NOT evenly enforced? -nt

[ColbertWatcher]

57. I think the problem will be solved by the team of lawyers...

...which can best twist the language of the dress code to reflect their side's argument.

I think the "Political Correctness Cops" (as you call them) are in defense of our little Tennessee attention whore. And, I don't mean the kid, I mean his lawyer, Kirk Lyons who, according to the article

"...has been involved in many of the cases as chief trial lawyer for the North Carolina-based Southern Legal Resource Center."

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Mr. Lyons has a history of siding with people who define "heritage" in a way most Americans might not

"From Texas to Alabama to South Carolina, Kirk D. Lyons, "chief trial counsel" of the Southern Legal Resource Center (SLRC), has presented himself as the legal savior of the beleaguered South.

No matter that he has attended and spoken at a slew of white supremacist events around the nation. No matter that he has walked at the head of a Klan parade, lionized Adolf Hitler as "probably the most misunderstood man in German history," and reportedly proposed carving America up into racial mini-states.

Even the fact that Lyons was married on the compound of Aryan Nations by the leader of that notorious neo-Nazi group hasn't had much of an effect.

The neo-Confederate movement has embraced him."

--Southern Poverty Law Center

As far as the Confederate flag not being a symbol of hate,

"It might recall a period of maltreatment but which people in 2008 have absolutely no connection, let alone responsibility..."

I couldn't agree with you more: it does symbolize a period of maltreatment. Perhaps if he had learned about a little more history in school and a little less "heritage" outside of it he might understand how hurtful the symbol could be. Maybe the school fails not only because they didn't stick to their own standards as described in the dress code, but they failed in teaching this kid history!

I doubt his lawyer is looking to sue the school for failing to educate the little snowflake, however.

[gratuitous]

64. Well, the young fellow DID say it was about his heritage

And since my great-great-whatever fought for the 133rd Indiana Irregulars, it's my family's heritage to shoot any sumbitch flying that traitorous rag. I hope everyone can respect my family traditions and not get their knickers in a twist when I honor my forefathers.

[Clark2008]

117. It's not a hate symbol around here - and that's the point.

Most people here don't wear it to be hateful - they wear it because it's popular... just like saggy jeans.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

110. Come on. You don't actually consider him an idiot. -nt

[Bluebear]

22. Ah, yes, the evil "political correctness"

[isentropic]

24. Does that mean you do -not- think it's evil?

How much of the first amendment are you willing to sacrifice in the service of kowtowing to everyone with a burr up his ass? That's a serious question.

[Bluebear]

25. PC? I think it's a right wing code word to demonstrate frustration at having to be polite.

Serious answer.

[isentropic]

27. Maybe you forgot to notice we liberals were the first to complain about political correctness

back in the 1960s. Or maybe you're just a kid who missed out on it. :D

[Paladin]

42. "We Liberals" Yeah, Right

If you're a liberal, then the confederate flag is nothing more than an object of historial pride. I.e., not bloody likely.

Enjoy the rest of your stay.....

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

105. If Political Correctness is

If Political Correctness is (as I understand it to be) simply the conscious and proactive act of attempting to *not* disparage someone, it's a bit tough for me to see it as "evil".

[Seeking Serenity]

107. But when it goes from people's choices to self-censor to government doing the censoring,

that's when it becomes problematic.

The essence of the First Amendment is protecting speech that you hate. Speech people like really needs no protection, does it?

[LanternWaste]

114. Possibly. But I think that two notable cases defined

Possibly. But I think that two notable cases defined that Free Speech as an overall concept may be much more legally regulated in the U.S. public school system than other venues.

Bethel School District No. 403 v. Fraser (1986)
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier (1988)

[Seeking Serenity]

126. Oh, no, I'm well aware of those cases and the more limited nature of school speech

I guess my point was to your more general appraisal of "political correctness."

Government should not, as a general rule, be in the business of regulating or prohibiting speech based on the sensibilities of the most sensitive among us (kind of in the same way that it cannot ban speech meant for adults just because it's not appropriate for children).

[LanternWaste]

131. I had been inferring that the context

I had been inferring that the context of the the thread used Free Speech/Political Correctness within the confines of the Public School System, and what their limits may or may not be.

[BlooInBloo]

96. = "let me be a fucking bigot, damn you!"

:rofl:

[mitchum]

38. I think he's actually a victim of "Why does Betty Sue think they are...sexy?"

count on it; this is a prime case of Mandingo Panic

[krispos42]

92. The Confederate flag, or the showing thereof, is often regarded as symbolic of hatred and racism

And as such there might be problem with it in school as disruptive to the learning environment.



Frankly, I don't understand why some southerns feel pride in showing it. If your great-whatever fought for the South, he or she was a traitor who committed treason for the rights of the states to declare arbitrary human being property, not people. That was the cause they were fighting for. The right of some states to not have to listen when other states say "Hey, people aren't property".

[Sheltiemama]

26. Thanks for re-enforcing a sterotype, kid.

Not all East Tennesseans are like that.

[mitchum]

31. Which one? Stupidity? Belligerence? Racism? Bad fashion sense?

that kid is a multitask-er

[Clark2008]

118. I'm an East Tennessean.

And I think you're a bigot.

And, I'm not stupid, belligerent or racist. Fashion sense doesn't count - it's subjective.

[mitchum]

122. See post 121

I'm not a bigot; I draw conclusions through empirical evidence.
However, you do know the meaning of the word "stereotype", don't you? It was crucial to both my reply and the post that I was responding to.

[mitchum]

30. Proud of his ancestor going off and dying for the interests of wealthy landowners...

I guess stupidity is hereditary

[isentropic]

37. Just don't call him the "r" word

:shrug:

[mitchum]

63. Sure...neither "peckerwood" or "cracker" begin with "r"

nor does "woolhatted hilljack"

[verges]

86. Why not?

He probably IS a Republican.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

81. ...

[DU GrovelBot]

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[AlCzervik]

39. Let him wear it makes him easier to identify as an idiot.

[dysfunctional press]

44. exactly. let him proudly display his redneck stupidity for the world to see...

and shun.

[dflprincess]

43. If he's "fighting for his rights as an American"

why does he want to wear a symbol of rebellion against the United States? (Not to mention all the other shitty stuff it symbolizes).

[tannybogus]

45. See upthread #36 nt

[dysfunctional press]

48. the south felt that they were the true america...

the first 12 amendments to the constitution, including the bill of rights were included in the confederate constitution.

[ColbertWatcher]

58. Pfft. And Bush believes he is following the Constitution. n/t

[isentropic]

50. Yes, by all means let us deprecate any suggestion of rebellion against the U.S.

Uh, would that include calls to imprison administration officials?.....some people would say yes. (Not I, just saying)

[dflprincess]

59. Expecting administration officials to follow the law and trying and imprisoning those who did not

would hardly be rebellion - it would a defense of the union and the Constitution. One could argue that the rebels (or traitors as I think of the current batch) are the ones who have taken over the exectuive branch of the government.

[isentropic]

76. Treason and patriotism are just different sides of the same coin.

Jefferson, Hancock and 53 others were traitors a couple hundred years ago.

[Saboburns]

46. I stand with the young man in question.

Free Speech is Free Speech.

All of it.

[isentropic]

49. Good for you. Too many Democrats are all to willing to subjugate the rights of SOME people

who are "wrong." It's almost like they're now of the opinion that we have no moral obligation to be any better than the thugs on the right. Well, with attitudes like that, it's no wonder we can't win a fucking election.
:grr:

[tnlefty]

60. No, the punk ass has the right to wear whatever the hell he wants

to when he's not in school, and if he wants to show his racist stripes on his own time, that's his right.

Yeah, my kids attend schools where the dress code is much stricter. PUBLIC schools, BTW.

[Saboburns]

67. I'm a Liberal I am.

But I kinda wish that the entire country would be a Free Speech Zone.

[isentropic]

73. The old "sticks and stones" principle has been abandoned in favor of

"can I please have some cheese?"

[tnlefty]

82. Free speech away and I'm all for it.

Just not in this case of violating a school dress code, and not with this symbol. If he wants to parade around in his shirt the minute that he's out of school and off of school property, more power to the jerk.

[isentropic]

72. Well I hope you're consistent when schools discipline kids for wearing 'gay pride'

t-shirts. I mean, it's the same thing, really.
(and just so you know, I'm gay)

[tnlefty]

79. No, it's not the same thing really...

when has gay pride resulted in death and lynchings? I seem to recall more violence against the GLBT community than I've ever seen that community be violent against others. But when the GLBT community starts lynching people, burning houses down, beating people, burning crosses, etc., and using the gay pride flag as a symbol, please let me know. Oh yeah, and let's not forget all white juries who excused these crimes....

Not the same thing at all.

[LanternWaste]

106. Not in a public school...

Not in a public school

Bethel School District No. 403 v. Fraser (1986)
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier (1988)

[Orsino]

124. Bingo.

I'm not getting the eagerness of some to defend what amounts to hate speech.

Save the Confederate and Nazi flags for after school, or for when you grow up. Don't wave 'em where other kids are required by law to be. Simple.

[Cronus Protagonist]

120. Me too. Let him brand himself any way he wishes.

Truly free speech knows no limits.

[walldude]

74. The kid has a point. Many people see the Confederate flag as

a symbol of hate and racism. Who am I to tell this kid he doesn't have the right to be a complete fucking asshole and wear it to school? People are gonna be assholes. If they wanna be assholes let them.

[Canuckistanian]

83. I'm all for his having the rights to wear the stars and bars

As long as I have the rights to burn it.

[heart of darkness]

89. he's lost before the case even starts..

Geez, doesn't anyone remember "Bong Hits for Jesus"? The Supreme Court's decision in that case pretty much handed this kid his ass on a plate. BH4J says students don't actually have an absolute 1st amendment right in schools. Say what you want about the decision, I am not a particularly big fan of it, but it is the law and this kid's case is done before it starts.

HdD

[leftofthedial]

90. banning flags is as stupid as banning flag burning

[Obamanaut]

91. There were three official flags of the confederacy over a period

of time. I have wondered why the folks who state "heritage, not hate" rarely seem to know this, but instead insist on the display of the rectangular version (Confederate Navy Jack) of the square battle flag of the confederacy.

I have also noticed that on the front bumper of pick-up trucks the owner who has such a flag/tag often, unless there are words printed thereon to provide a clue, will have it upside down - the single points of the stars should be upward. When pointing this out, the typical response has been "huh?"

http://americancivilwar.com/south/conflag/southflg.html

[Norrin Radd]

94. It's because they are lying. They really aren't interested in history or "heritage."

They probably have poor reading/comprehension skills, as well.

[kevinbgoode]

93. Funny how these confederate flagwavers don't mind practicing treason

and yet are among the first to scream at Mexican-Americans flying their flag in the United States.
The Confederacy doesn't exist. It is a short-lived defeated "nation" which was absorbed by the United States 130 years ago. A heritage of treason isn't to be celebrated.

[BlooInBloo]

95. White folks and their desire for state-sanctioned bigotry....

It's what made America great! (sheds tear).

[Donald Ian Rankin]

97. I'm inclined to be on the side of this student.

Consider what other symbols might be banned if a precedent is set.

Or, indeed, already have been.

[MadHound]

99. It continues to amaze me how many people want to wear a symbol that is identified

With hate, racism and being a traitor. What, these people want to be publicly identified as all around assholes?

Sorry, but in public schools, the students don't have freedom of speech. Hate speech and hate symbolism are not allowed. If the kid wants to wear his hatred on his sleeve, then he needs to do it on his own time.

[Postman]

100. Are students allowed to where a Swastika? It's the same thing. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

101. seems like there is one of these cases every school year

redneck punk will get his 30 seconds in the limelight, and by next week no one will remember..

[Marrah_G]

102. I grew up in Walpole, Massachusetts and our school emblem was the confederate flag

Our fight song was Dixie. Our team was (and still is) the Walpole Rebels.

I never thought of it as racist until I grew up and widened my life experience which led me to understand why it is hurtful to others.

Sometime in the late 90's they changed the flag to a set of crossed swords.

It always seemed odd to me for a town in the very heart of yankee territory would choose that name.

[Javaman]

111. morons on parade. nt

[Clark2008]

113. I live in this area.

And, Anderson County is home to some of the smartest residents in the area. This is the county in which Oak Ridge National Laboratory resides.

However, there also is a group of people in this area who are, well, a bit behind the times.

That said, I wish we'd stop giving symbols power to change our emotions. That includes the American flag, swastikas (my husband's Jewish and refuses to let that inantimate object give him grief - it's the Nazi's... the people who committed the crimes... who he hates), flag pins, "W" stickers and the like.

There is so much more to be worried about: real people in peril, real people experiencing financial ruin because of a health issue, real people who are shot and killed by right-wing nuts, real people who are losing their jobs. Those are the things to get riled up about.

[Sheltiemama]

127. I'm in Knox County.

Do you live in Anderson?

A mistrial was declared today.

[baldguy]

119. He's got a perfect right to wear anti-American paraphernalia & generally be an asshole.

Just not on school property.

[slackmaster]

125. School is not a free-speech zone; a school is within its rights to impose a dress code.

That is all.

[alarimer]

129. Your "heritage", bozo, is RACISM.

That's what that flag stands for and what that war was all about. What other "state's right" were they arguing about at the time? Nothing. So if you want to parade the fact that you are a racist piece of shit, go ahead. I hope you lose all your friends in the bargain. I hope it's worth it, you ignorant scum.