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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:46 PM
Original message
WH has started to panic over a July 9 meeting & Rove/McCain's Political Advice To Repub of Georgia
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 03:53 PM by kpete
The White House has started to panic over a July 9 meeting between Condi Rice and Mikheil Saakashvili, desperate to suggest they didn't encourage Georgia's crack-down in South Ossetia. Given that panic, I wonder whether Karl Rove had any similar chats with Saakashvili when they were in Yalta together just days later?

Now, there's been a lot of justified chatter about the role of Randy Scheunemann, who appears to be advising the Republic of Georgia at the same time as he provides campaign advice to John McCain.

Sen. John McCain's top foreign policy adviser prepped his boss for an April 17 phone call with the president of Georgia and then helped the presumptive Republican presidential nominee prepare a strong statement of support for the fledgling republic.

The day of the call, a lobbying firm partly owned by the adviser, Randy Scheunemann, signed a $200,000 contract to continue providing strategic advice to the Georgian government in Washington.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/12/AR2008081202932.html



*********************

Given the way McCain has boasted of his frequent calls to Saakashvili in attempts to reclaim the mantle of the best international leader, it raises questions of whether the Administration's "see no evil" approach to Georgia was part of a deliberate campaign strategy.

Particularly when you consider the fact that Karl Rove may have met with Saakashvili just days after the July 9 private dinner between Condi and Saakashvili that the White House, State, and DOD are now panicking about. Rove was in the neighborhood, in Yalta, at a conference with Saakashvili three days after the meeting (h/t brendanx).
http://www.yes-ukraine.org/en/programyes5.html

09:30 11:00 Plenary session:
Elections in Russia and the USA: impact on Ukraine and Europe

What will be the foreign policy of the new Russian and American leadership over the coming years? How will it impact their relationship with the European Union and Ukraine, and EUs further enlargement?

Moderator: Richard Haass
Panel: Sergey Glaziev, Director, Institute for New Economy, member of the 1st, 3rd and 4th Russian State Duma
Kostyantyn Gryshchenko, Ambassador to the Russian Federation and First Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine
Alexander Rahr, Programme Director, German Council on Foreign Relations, member of the Board of YES
Karl Rove, Former Deputy Chief of Staff to George W. Bush and Chief Strategist for Bush's Presidential Campaigns
Bob Shrum, political consultant and Senior Fellow, Wagner Graduate School of Public Service, New York University



more at:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/13/did-karl-rove-chat-to-saakashvili-about-south-ossetia-too/#more-2578
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSWAT009901
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. McCadaver is a fool to link himself to McChimp.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. these assholes are shameless if nothing else
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. The non-pushback is galling.
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metamars Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
47. Oh, come now!
Surely Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers will get to the bottom of this! They always come through, true to their oath of office, don't they?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #47
66. You forgot the sarcasm
thingie! That's a real laugh about those two, and I needed a good laugh today.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. Lol!
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 02:17 PM by jeff30997
I believe that the Sarcasm thingie is absolutely not needed when talking about those

two clowns.



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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. mentioned on Thom Hartman today-
theres another thread around here somewhere on this.

Smells pretty bad-

:hi:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. The whole thing is a set up to try to make McGeorgian look good
:tinfoilhat: Though it's not that crazy. I knew it! I had read that one of McWar's top campaign figures had lobbied for Georgia for years.

And Rove in the mix - makes perfect sense

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. What's a few thousand dead and a New Cold War for a chance
to promote a war monger. Filthy disgusting sociopaths who think life is cheap.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. They need a war somewhere
And since the surge has worked :sarcasm: it's time to move on. The Russians are just perfect for the role. They worked so well for so many decades.
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RedLetterRev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
51. So long as it's someone ELSE's life :grr: n/t
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
43. If so, I can't think of a worse way of doing it. Although most of them are
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 04:52 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
archetypal nerds, I thought the Republicans like to pose as "tough guys", the bully-boys of the world stage nobody should cross, and who'd protect the interests of the American people like Rottweilers.

Instead of which, they've been shown up as Rottweilers against their own innocent civilian population, and "the mouse that roars" against the Russian bear. Hopeless wusses. Just hopeless.

Let's have the real "tough guys" on the world stage in the White House who also know the value of the velvet glove: a Democrat president and his team. People who can not only walk the walk, but also talk the talk. It's called, "diplomacy", by the way. Republicans = "mouth and trousers" bluster and then humiliation. Driving a Hummer and invading Grenada was never going to make a man of them. Even to have thought it.
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RedLetterRev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. More like "the mouth that roars" but
we'll let it slide ;-)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #52
72. Of course I'm taking into account the logistics, available manpower,
Western decadence, etc. The logistics alone make a trial of strength in Russia's transcontinental milieu inconceivable.

As far as the current, seemingly intense nationalism of the ordinary Russians now, I think this is a direct result of the blundering machinations of the half-wits of such ludicrous propaganda-mills (as one DUer described those so-called "think-tanks" of the far- right), as the Adam Smith Institute, which, having inter alia provided its spurious rationale, eventually led to the sudden brutal unleashing of the most vicious robber-baron capitalism imaginable, (short of the Neocons' privatisation in Iraq, or a re-opening the gulag archipelago in Russia or the archipelago of prisons and "after-care" personnel, currently flourishing in the US), on the Russian people.

Notwithstanding the hard reality of that particular scenario, yes, the "mouth that roars" makes a lot more sense.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Saakashvili was just on CNN complaining about the faulty US intelligence...
he received on Russian intentions.

Kinda clashes with the Administration's line that they have been telling him to NOT crack down on S. Ossetia.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. so many inconsistencies and yet the Corp Media continues to spout Bushisms
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. You'd think he'd KNOW about faulty US intelligence by now
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:28 PM by hatrack
:eyes:
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
44. He does - that's why he is using the line. This is the excuse d'jur. Kind of
like when rOnnIe rayGUN popularized the "I don't recall" theme.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
69. Big time clash. There's NO WAY our intelligence could have been that ignorant.
I think the analysis of Russia is spot-on, though I think he gives too much benefit of the doubt to the United States in light of the McCain/Scheunemann/Rove revelation in the OP:

In this simple chronicle, there is something quite mysterious: Why did the Georgians choose to invade South Ossetia on Thursday night? There had been a great deal of shelling by the South Ossetians of Georgian villages for the previous three nights, but while possibly more intense than usual, artillery exchanges were routine. The Georgians might not have fought well, but they committed fairly substantial forces that must have taken at the very least several days to deploy and supply. Georgias move was deliberate.

The United States is Georgias closest ally. It maintained about 130 military advisers in Georgia, along with civilian advisers, contractors involved in all aspects of the Georgian government and people doing business in Georgia. It is inconceivable that the Americans were unaware of Georgias mobilization and intentions. It is also inconceivable that the Americans were unaware that the Russians had deployed substantial forces on the South Ossetian frontier. U.S. technical intelligence, from satellite imagery and signals intelligence to unmanned aerial vehicles, could not miss the fact that thousands of Russian troops were moving to forward positions. The Russians clearly knew the Georgians were ready to move. How could the United States not be aware of the Russians? Indeed, given the posture of Russian troops, how could intelligence analysts have missed the possibility that the Russians had laid a trap, hoping for a Georgian invasion to justify its own counterattack?

It is very difficult to imagine that the Georgians launched their attack against U.S. wishes. The Georgians rely on the United States, and they were in no position to defy it. This leaves two possibilities. The first is a massive breakdown in intelligence, in which the United States either was unaware of the existence of Russian forces, or knew of the Russian forces but along with the Georgians miscalculated Russias intentions. The second is that the United States, along with other countries, has viewed Russia through the prism of the 1990s, when the Russian military was in shambles and the Russian government was paralyzed. The United States has not seen Russia make a decisive military move beyond its borders since the Afghan war of the 1970s-1980s. The Russians had systematically avoided such moves for years. The United States had assumed that the Russians would not risk the consequences of an invasion.

If this was the case, then it points to the central reality of this situation: The Russians had changed dramatically, along with the balance of power in the region. They welcomed the opportunity to drive home the new reality, which was that they could invade Georgia and the United States and Europe could not respond. As for risk, they did not view the invasion as risky. Militarily, there was no counter. Economically, Russia is an energy exporter doing quite well indeed, the Europeans need Russian energy even more than the Russians need to sell it to them. Politically, as we shall see, the Americans needed the Russians more than the Russians needed the Americans. Moscows calculus was that this was the moment to strike. The Russians had been building up to it for months, as we have discussed, and they struck.


http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power


I think this article really highlights that if we gave Saakashvili faulty intelligence on Russian intentions, it must have been faulty on purpose to further neo-con political objectives, even if it comes at Georgia's expense. In a way, McThuselah is right when he say we are all Georgians now. We are all getting raped by the neo-cons and watching it being reported by MSM as lovemaking. We are all shafted now.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. There appears to be quite a bit of collusion
need to say that with in Lewis Black voice....

colluuuuuuuuuuusion.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. k&r



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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I don't feel well...
I still don't know how we could have let everything that has come to pass, come to pass. :banghead:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. We are on the brink...
and we have no JFK at the helm this time. :hide:




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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Time to hide out on the fake ranch for a few weeks...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM by BushDespiser12
such leadership is so awesome!

That leaves a dick in control. I'm sure we'll be just peachy-keen fine.

:scared:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. Rofl till ya ralph!!!
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 01:30 AM by cliffordu
:rofl:
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Jeebus.
:wtf:
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. This reeks to high heaven. Sure looks as if Saakashvali was 'encouraged' to brinksmanship w/Russia.
:thumbsdown: Rice, Rove et al.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Methinks They Used Him.........
I wonder if he'll be smart enough to realize that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Well, NOW he does.
:shrug:
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. When he does we will have new enemy that will be chanting "death to America"
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RedLetterRev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
54. You think mebbe-mebbe
a couple-score thousand Blackwater troops conveniently placed at his side might not have given him some of that dutch-courage? Just thinkin' out loud, here...
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:58 PM
Original message
Why in the hell would Rove be there at all? He's supposedly
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 04:06 PM by Marr
not with the White House anymore. He's supposedly not even part of the McCain campaign. We're supposed to accept the notion that he's just a private citizen now-- just a Texas political hack and Fox News contributor.

Why should he be there at all, if not to coordinate some theater for domestic consumption? These fuckwits are toying with things way, way, beyond their grasp.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. But nuclear brinkmanship makes GREAT political theater...
and nothing could go wrong, right?
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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. Agreed.
There is nothing harmful about atomic bombs. Only smoking kills.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #42
58. And yet another benefit of atomic bombs...
thousands... or millions.... fewer women having illicit sex and trying to get abortions, even if they're illegal or whatever.

Imagine saving all those unborn babies from the horrors!!!!



Atom bombs...good for unborn babies too

:nuke:
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. Oh yeah, radiation-induced birth defects are so much more "pro-life,"
doncha know?

Re thousands... or millions.... fewer women having illicit sex and trying to get abortions, even if they're illegal or whatever.

Imagine saving all those unborn babies from the horrors!!!!

Atom bombs...good for unborn babies too


Your post brought a horrifying picture to mind, of all the deformed babies born after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the high rate of birth defects in Iraq right now as a result of exposure to depleted uranium.

Why is the so-called "pro-lifers" never think about that...only us "godless" libs?
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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #70
79.  thought about that.
They're Pro-No-Choice, that's why.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Would this be considered a clusterfuck?
Seems the lot of them, Bish, Dickhead, Condi, McLoon, Georgia Prez, Scheunemann and maybe even Rove(?) - everyone of them are really pushing the lines hard and taking some fantastic risks.

I'd have thought they'd be playing things cautiously considering all the pre-conflict meetings, troop training, etc. and the risk of being discovered.

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. k&r#5 nt
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Rove in Yalta avoiding subpoenaed testimony?
wondered where he ran off to...
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. probly with henry k, having a blood cocktail in the mountains of
south africa.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wow...so they deliberately provoked the Bear through their Georgian puppet...
...how did they think this was going to turn out?

Lil' Boy Bush says to Pootey-Poot "Get out of Georgia", and Pootey-Poot slowly begins to smile and says "Or what?", Lil' Boy Bush suddenly realizes he left all of his toy soldiers in the Iraqi sandbox and shits himself...
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
65. Well, one upshot of the provocation
whereby US and Georgia drew Russia out, guns ablaze, is that my Polish government is just now, as I type this, finalizing the talks on the missile defense shield. Looks like they're going to put it in, against the objections not only of the EU, but a great majority of their own population.

The president (who's nominally a bitter enemy of the current prime minister and his party) said yesterday that Russian agression (his word) on Georgia shows why we need the shield in the first place. So much for the old "it't not directed against Russia" lie.

Whether this was the original intent of the provocation, I've no idea. If it were, it would signal that the shield is much more important to the US than I have ever thought. Since the damn thing doens't work at all, and if/when it does work, it's unlikely there will be any Iranian missiles to shoot down, I concluded it was basically another military/corporate money grab. So maybe there's more to it, but I suppose it's just Polish government taking the opportunity to quickly get the faux negotiations over with, while they can point to the Russian threat.

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
74. That may explain the Secret Service Agents helping the drunken
bum out of the bleachers in China.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. July 12, 2008: Karl Rove traveling in Crimea.
So THIS is where Karl Rove fled to avoid testifying in front of Judiciary last month.... conveniently next door to Georgia.



Karl Rove, Bush's counselor and chief political strategist, was traveling in the Crimea this morning but described himself as devastated at the news (of Tony Snow's death).

LA Times, July 12, 2008




WH has started to panic over a July 9 meeting & Rove/McCain's Political Advice To Repub of Georgia, August 12, 2008



It's time to nail these bastards to the wall.







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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #25
67. Time and time again these bastards walk away with only a letter condemning their actions.
It's UFB!
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
68. Karl Rove
Karl Rove, Bush's counselor and chief political strategist, was traveling in the Crimea this morning but described himself as devastated at the news.


This is a lie. You need a conscience to be devastated.

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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks for the reminder where KKKRove was (in the area)
when he should have been testifying. This makes so sense, b/c Rove has a stake in Martial Law and the elections being suspended. Oh My
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. So THIS is McShame's campaign strategy....
Encourage the trusting Georgians to go into the disputed areas guns blazing, with the lobbyist telling them that we've "got their back"... Which causes the massive response of Russia

So the old fart can "look presidential". .

Sounds like SOP for Rove's boys....
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. Just some psychopaths creating their own reality. Let's all watch what they do!
Or, arrest them now and try them for all the crimes they've committed.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. Did the GOP foment war in that region to help McCain's campaign?
that is the question
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JeffreyWilliamson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is the game ender...
Edited on Wed Aug-13-08 11:02 PM by JeffreyWilliamson
If this is true this is the "game over" moment. The press has seemed to embrace John McCain's "strength" over the last couple of days when covering him speaking on Georgia.

But if it's not strength at all, but just a product of influence.

This needs to be vetted, and if true, yelled about to high-heaven.
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savistocate Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. question? when mcGeorgia promotes himself
assuming he holds the office of US Pres. Saakashvilli talking up mcWar as if he is selecting the US president.
Script by Schuenman --a registered foreign agent for a foreign gov!!!!!!!!..with recent new contract.. McCain's chief advisor foreign policy.
Now with mcwar on his campaign travel.
Likely the one who put limits on Mc4moreWars cell phone calls..if you caught that one.
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JeffreyWilliamson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. This is actually it...
When you said:

"Saakashvilli talking up mcWar as if he is selecting the US president."

Sure the Georgian President is holding up McCain as the next US President. And the media is in awe that McCain is the person with the decisive view on the crisis--respond with strength in Georgia's favor.

But what if McCain is painted as only having cared because one of his closest advisors made lots of money from Georgia on the same day that McCain was advised by his inner circle to come out so strongly in Georgia's favor, (and if that article is true, then this is true).

Whoops!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #31
56. So who's gonna do the yelling? The American Pravda?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. Time to Put the Bush Regime Under House Arrest
so they can't go out of the country and get into trouble. Maybe even cut off their communications with the rest of the world.

If it works, then we could cut off their communications with the rest of the US. Maybe even impeach, indict, convict and imprison.
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savistocate Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. "a product of influence" that describes it
well. Begining to sound reminiscent of a Howard Hughes being led around..wowah
Americans wld be responding he's most trustworthy on natl security-foreign affairs
is strange.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
34. man.
that is even CLOSER than april glaspie was telling saddam to go for kuwait.


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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
36. I brought this up on July 12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3605564

That post didn't get much love.

I got a little love from eleny today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6629158

And because of her, I made this handy graphic;



As I asked then, who the hell vacations in Crimea?
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. Rove there was no coincidence. Shuneurman is not advising Georgia, he's lobbying McCain on their beh
He lobbied McCain for them and McCain immediately nominated the Georgian president for a Nobel PP. He's no adviser, he's a lobbyist. and McCain is no foreign policy adviser or diplomat and is way out of line playing president and being advised by a lobbyists for Georgia what to say about Georgia depending on how much money is paid.

McCain is war pure and simple. He's showing what kind of threatening leader he'd be...one that would get us all killed just so you can see how tough he is. Just pathetic.
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Franc_Lee Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. McBush stated 6-7 months ago that Rove will have nothing to do with his election campaign, McBush
is almost as deceiving as Bushco's. McCain, lie~deny and it seems to work well because Dem's just don't call them on anything.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
45. And Hass is on CNN right now
Should I laugh or cry? Now he's saying that Saakashvili jumped the gun but that the US reaction was too slow.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #45
60. the whole thing smells of oil
and the Georgian President being manipulated by the Bush regime, they will not stop until they complete control over all oil resources, I could be wrong, but I wouldn't mess around with Putin either.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
46. Did they time this to coincide with the Olympics' distraction, I wonder?
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 06:55 AM by Waiting For Everyman
and Obama's vacation?

Another good article on the Scheunemann connection here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_lobbyist;_ylt=Au3xg.B4paW0ZIsZgSY5qrbZn414

(Good stuff toward the end on pg. 2)
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
59. I actually started to wonder if
they're trying to piss off enough people to justify the alarm bells regarding "terrorists trying to strike at the US" again.

You know...the same crap they spew every election cycle


Obviously there's not nearly enough good terrorizing going on...they need help. Gotta go and create some terrorists...then they'll be happy




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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #46
61. this? my page didn't have a p. 2
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 10:11 AM by Gabi Hayes
Earlier in his political career, McCain displayed the kind of caution that could be expected from someone who fought in Vietnam and was a prisoner of war.

In 1983, McCain urged U.S. withdrawal from Lebanon. "I do not see any obtainable objectives in Lebanon, and the longer we stay there, the harder it will be to leave," he said.

As the United States prepared for the first Gulf war, McCain was among a handful of members in Congress who began raising caution flags about the operation.

"If you get involved in a major ground war in the Saudi desert, I think support will erode significantly," said McCain. "Nor should it be supported. We cannot even contemplate, in my view, trading American blood for Iraqi blood."

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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. Yes, that's it

I could've sworn there was a pg. 2 when I first linked it.
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sourmilk Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
48. "McCain has boasted of his frequent calls to Saakashvili"
McWar is full of baloney. He's proven THREE times already that he can't even pronounce "Mikael Saakashvili."
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kpete, I think I love you. BUT I WANNA KNOW FOR SURE!!!
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
50. No way the M$M runs this story. NFW.
Figging 900lb gorilla in the room and they won't touch it. Bastards. Filthy, criminal bastards.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
53. kick 'cause this has really pissed me off
:kick:
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
55. McCain Starts War With Russia
This is pretty damning stuff - another "security exercise" and all hell breaks loose.

I gotta get to work. Can anyone point me toward a timeline that lays this all out in sequence? I'll be back this evening.
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floridablue Donating Member (996 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
57. Shrum AND Rove ?????? God help us !!!!!!!!!!!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
62. What the hell is Karl Rove doing speaking on behalf of the U.S.????
Rove is not an elected official and is no longer officially a part of the White House.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
64. Why in the HELL are Scheunemann and Rove even,
opening their mouths to these countries? The first is a lobbyist, the 2nd doesn't even work for the government anymore BUT he is in a conference with the Head of the State department?!?!? WTF!
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InternalDialogue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
71. Just a couple of weeks ago: "Obama would rather lose the war..."
"...than lose the election."

Today: McCain would rather start a new war than lose the election.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. That's a very good line n/t
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
76. If so, this is just the most harmful campaign stunt in American history.

If this story stays alive, McCain is sunk. It's bad enough that the Typhoid Administration made another foreign policy blunder, but if McCain's name is anywhere near it, then his corpse is on the slab. All that's left is for Obama campaign and supporters to drive the stake home and make sure it stays there.

It's the best thing since "Who lost China?"
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
77. Seems a very narrow understanding of what's going down in Georgia and WHY.
McCain and crew may be trying to piggyback their interests onto the bigger issues
of pipelines and geostrategic challenges, but it's NOT about McCain.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
78. Here's a picture of the war criminal...


Georgia's President Mikheil Saakashvili speaks with Condoleezza Rice, Tbilisi, Georgia, 09 July, 2008. FILE PHOTO.
REUTERS/Irakli Gedenidze/Pool (GEORGIA), Copyright 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

(originally: http://www.daylife.com/photo/07V8bbPdAAfhK)
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
80. so, that's around the time Karl 'left the country'
Rove refuses subpoena, leaves country

Nick Juliano
Published: Thursday July 10, 2008

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rove_disses_Congres_refuses_subpoena_to_0710.html

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