Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NYC Firefighters to Giuliani: "Not just no, but HELL NO."

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:13 AM
Original message
NYC Firefighters to Giuliani: "Not just no, but HELL NO."
Edited on Fri Mar-09-07 10:32 AM by Stephanie




http://www.amny.com/search/ny-usrudy095122917mar09,0,43...

Firefighters slam Giuliani
BY JOHN RILEY
john.riley@newsday.com

March 9, 2007

On the presidential campaign trail, Rudolph Giuliani leans heavily on his image as a hero of Sept. 11, but Thursday "America's Mayor" got a sharp rebuff from a disgruntled constituency most non-New Yorkers probably think is in his corner -- firefighters.

After Giuliani pulled out of a planned appearance at an International Association of Firefighters presidential forum next week, the group released a stinging draft letter indicating that it almost didn't invite him at all because of continuing anger at his "despicable" role in pulling firefighters off the Twin Towers' debris pile in 2001 before all hope of finding their dead comrades' remains was exhausted.

***

His dispute with firefighters erupted in November 2001, when the remains of only about 100 firefighters had been recovered. Giuliani, citing safety concerns ordered cuts in the number of firefighters sorting wreckage so heavy machinery could clear debris more quickly.

The order led to street clashes and arrests, as firefighters protested that the speed-up would lead to remains being dumped at Fresh Kills landfill. Giuliani relented.

The IAFF letter described Giuliani's actions as "a visceral, personal affront to our fallen" and to the code that calls on firefighters to "leave no one behind." It said he was more committed to finding a stash of gold bars and cash lost in the rubble than firefighters' bodies.

"There are few times I can say that I speak for the entire membership, but this is one time that I speak for at least 95 percent," said one of the letter's drafters, Capt. Peter Gorman, head of New York's Uniformed Fire Officers Association.


***


Excerpts from a draft of letter to members of the International Association of Fire Fighters

"This letter is intended to make all of our members aware of the egregious acts Mayor Giuliani committed against our members, our fallen on 9-11, and our New York City union officers following that horrific day ...

"We have heard from some affiliates that Giuliani's campaign is beginning to reach out to our locals, looking to build support. If you are contacted by the Giuliani campaign we hope you will say not just, "No," but, "Hell no."







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kudos to them
K & R

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Father Mychal Judge was the chaplain of the NYFD. He lost his
life on 9-11 partially due to these policy failures.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bless him
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. few things will ever be more heart breaking -- bless him indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm getting all choked up here
He was such a decent, kind man, and a true patriot.

:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. he exemplifies what a Christian man is. I am proud of the firemen
for standing up for his death and others. Rudy is a freak and should go away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. I didn't cry all day on 9/11 until ..
I saw his story. They ran a story on him on the evening news and ended with that photo. Then I lost it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. There are Christians in New York?
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. A tribute page for Father Mychal Judge
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. k and r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. As I said in the other thread on this...
This will kill Giuliani more than his personal issues. The Fox News story, believe it or not, had the "Hell No" in bold. The letter really singles him out & lets him have it!

I mean, ever since 9/11, Rudy has been prancing around the country in a fireman's coat & hat, always eager to exploit their good image for his personal gain.

Now, let's see if any "mainstream" media picks up this story?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I agree; but I fear the Corporate Media won't pick up on this.
Who else do they have to back? Thread Recommended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sobanos Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. "I fear the Corporate Media won't pick up on this."
Nothing to fear.

They won't.

And that should not surprise anyone..........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sobanos Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. "I fear the Corporate Media won't pick up on this."
Nothing to fear.

They won't.

And that should not surprise anyone..........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. If the locals and their allies do, that will help quite a bit.
Guilliani is scum.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Rude-Y is a shameless opportunist.
:puke:

Thanks for posting Fox Noise's take on this. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. I have NYC friends...
that were always ragging on him before and after 9/11 and I thought may ge they were harsh-I don't judge a guy by his personal life.....
But then when the arms depot in Iraq was left unguarded-when the troops had orders from above to race to Baghdad-Guilaini had the nerve to bad mouth and second guess those guys and said it was their fault that the Iraqis got that C3 and if it were him he would have guarded the depot. If he had done that he would have been insubordinate and court marshalled. The unit DID try to get their orders changed and tried to guard the ammo depot, but the bass was too set on dong a dog and pony show in Baghdad.
Needless to say, the IAEA seals were broken when they came back.
I never forgave Guilaini for dissing our troops like that and showing his ignorance.
The guy can go pound salt.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. Rudy and Bush are cut from the same mold
Now, you may say his personal life may not count, but it is indicative of how Rudy treats people. If he doesn't give a rat's ass about those closest to him, how can he feel compassion for anybody else? Those of us in New York have seen far too many examples of Rudy's "compassion". It is now up to the press, and others, to go back to the "video tape" and educate the rest of the country.

"My Way or the Highway" isn't just Bush's mantra, it's Rudy's too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm proud of our heroes who won't let Giuliani piss on their fallen brethren and pretend it's rain
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardcore Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't think it matters
He's got a snowballs chance in hell of getting that nomination anyway. Being the early frontrunner is meaningless as it's only a quick infatuation. Think Howard Dean in '04 and Clinton in '92. Gingrich will probably announce after Labor Day after the others have beaten the hell out of each other and walk away as the nominee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. you are out of your mind
Gingrich? No chance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. We ingore Newt at our own peril!
Newt is smart - and he's evil! In the sense that power, without grace or compassion always ends up becoming evil.

Newt has shown a talent for continually re-inventing himself; actually he reinvents himself every time he talks to a new audience. I remember back in the '80s, when Newt appeared at Worldcon, in an attempt to get political support. Fortunately, SF fans are indepedent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
55. I just wonder if his "unfavorables" can be overcome. And they'll only get worse, the more he's
made visible in the media.

MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StarTurtle Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. "Think Howard Dean in '04 and Clinton in '92."
Here on my home planet, Clinton won in '92.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardcore Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Clinton was the long shot
in '92 but won the nomination and the presidency he was expected to drop out early because conventional wisdom said he didn't have a chance. Dean was the early shoe in and look where it got him. That's what happened on my planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
52. Great
The Grinch will go down like Dole's dick without medication.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
54. Welcome, interesting that you included Clinton '92 in the "frontrunner" hypothesis you advance.
Edited on Sun Mar-11-07 10:49 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
It certainly directly contradicts your subject line. Are you experiencing congnitive dissonance?

:hi: MKJ
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. FDNY isn't the only one. The Skyscraper Safety Campaign
will also be on Rudy "Il Douche" Ghouliani like shit on stink.

www.skyscrapersafety.org

The org is co-headed by the mother of a NYC firefighter killed on 9/11.

:evilfrown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Speaking against Mr. 9/11?
Those commie bastards!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
morffin Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Rudy is a fraud
It was his budget cuts to the FDNY that caused the death of a lot of firefighters on 9-11.
Inferior comm. equipt. failed when they needed it the most.
Rudy was too busy turning NYC into a police state and plowing public gardens in poor neighborhoods to give a crap about the FDNY.

This guy is a vile, nasty little punk.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Precisely.
He was widely reviled in NYC for his fascistic, racist policies. Remember "it's Giuliani time"? That disgusting episode was emblematic of how Little Boots ran the city. September 11, 2001 was primary election day in NYC. We couldn't wait to be rid of him. It was only in comparison the ABSOLUTE COWARDICE of GEORGE W. BUSH and his ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION that Rudy managed to look good on 9/11. He was doing his job in a vacuum, when all else (the Bush Admin) had abandoned their stations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
morffin Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Rudy also destroyed 9-11 evidence
He had the rubble from the Towers outta there lickity split....being an old prosecutor himself, Rudy knew the importance of this evidence.

I photographed Rudy a few times when he was mayor...always got close and put my flash on full power... and fired away until my motor drive started to smoke.... my fav. moment... one event I blinded him so bad that he bashed his knee on a deskl.... a carreer highlight for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. The First responders know Rudy is a LIAR and Bush
Bobblehead... now people are dying all over the place from his not informing people about air quaility down there

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardcore Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. What evidence is that?
Is this another conspiracy theory involving Bush, Elvis and Mossad bringing down the towers? The last I heard they had city, state and federal agents sifted through every last ounce of material from the site. It took years of work to recover body parts, personal belongings, aircraft parts etc, etc. They used long conveyor belts to slowly move the shovels full of debris past long lines of evidence specialists 24/7. So what was destroyed by Guiliani?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Guiliani rushed
the steel girders out of the site to sell as scrap to China. According to WTC destroyed by explosives theorists, the steel girders would have been prime evidence that the buildings were destroyed, not by fuel from the jet airplanes, but from explosives planted by, supposedly, Bushco.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardcore Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. The girders were at there for months (in NJ)
and weren't sold until all law enforcement agencies were done with them and released from evidence custody. The same jackasses claim that the Pentagon wasn't hit by a plane in spite of the fact that thousands actually saw the wreckage in the building and a couple of hundred saw the plane actually hit. The conspiracy theorists can't be taken seriously and should never be quoted, especially in a political debate. Psssst...did ya here that they found Jimmy Hoffa's body in the WTC? He'd been working as a bond analyst all that time and mob found out and paid some Iraeli intelligence...............
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Don't take the bait.
They will lock the thread. This happens every time there is a mention of 9/11 here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnnyChill Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Here's the lowdown on what happened to the tower remains
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html
9/11 was an inside job. Get use to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
43. And he tried to pull off not having elections that year.
Edited on Sat Mar-10-07 02:52 AM by wiley
We threw him out. So he and his team of gutter rats crisscrossed the country bilking the country of huge sums of money as 9-11 heroes. He's a lying loser poser. It's really that simple. From Guiliani's flaccid, ineffective response to 9/11, Republicans created this myth that their "leaders" like George Bush could sit back and do nothing as disaster after disaster ravaged the country so that the pin head lesser leaders could rise to handle any situation with a cool, compassionate head. They've all done a heckuva job on every problem and every issue because they fall back to jingoiostic, militaristic nationalistic themes that don't have anything to do with the real patriots, leaders or heroes of this country. At the end of every Republican's ego strut and MSM created rainbow is a pot of gold in front of a curtain that hides the poverty, struggles and mind numbing truth of what their policies and actions have done to this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. I'm a Guilliani DIS liker.. but that equip. isn't fixed still as I understand it.
if I'm incorrect, please let me know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. can you imagine the ad the DNC could run with this??
dispelling the myth of Rudy G as hero of NY's finest?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. And I'm sure the Jersey Girls opinion of him hasn't reached MSM yet either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is what is going to haunt Guiliani Dust to Dust
why do first responders not like Rudy & Bush
because they are DYING
a video I made on the improper equipped Firefighters and rescuers at 911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B2WBD-F-7I

Rudy and EPA head said the air was ok to work in

THEY LIED
and
the Firemen and rescuers DIED
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. they are dying NOW
they are dying every day from lung disease because of it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Its incredibly sad just cause they didn't want to admit
their was asbestos in the air as well as other stuff

many NYorkers are going to die because of Rudy's LIES
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Why was Rudy in such a hurry to have all the WTC steel melted down?
Why wasn't Ground Zero treated as the giant crime scene it was?

Why weren't rescue workers apprised of the horrible health risks and forced to were special rebreathers?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Join the Tinfoil hat crowd!
You know the answer to all your questions even if you won't admit it. It's painful to imagine but I am sure 9-11 was an inside job. Too many facts leading in that direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. because he was in the reinforced bunker in WTC 7
and just happened to get out before it "collapsed" around 5pm.

The rest is all coverup.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. That is a gross distortion of events.
I'm sorry, but there's no point in stretching the truth about what happened that day. He was not in the bunker when the twin towers came down in the morning. He was on the streets outside the WTC. At which point WTC 7 was on fire. So you're remark that he "just happened to get out" makes no sense at all. Does every thread that mentions 9/11 have to turn tinfoil? I am sitting across the street from the WTC right this moment. I know what happened. Don't make stuff up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Who warned Guiliani WTC-2 was about to come down?
Why didn't he warn the firefighters?

Then-Mayor Rudolph Giuliani told ABC News that he received a warning that World Trade Center was "gonna' collapse" a short time before it did.

I .. I went down to the scene and we set up a headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna' to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit, got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.

-- ABC News: http://stj911.org/evidence/docs/abc_giuliani.wmv

In an interview published in 2005, EMT Richard Zarillo describes delivering a message from the OEM (Office of Emergency Management) to Fire Marshal Steven Mosiello and Department Chief Peter Ganci:

As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out.

He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the f___ told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.


-- Interview, New York Times: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/2005...

Fire Marshal Steven Mosiello describes receiving the warning from Zarillo:

A. At that point I don't know exactly when the Commissioner and Mayor had left. It was pretty soon after they had left that Richie Zarillo, who works with EMS -- I believe he's an OEM liaison -- came running up to me. I was not on the ramp at this time. I was like almost at the sidewalk location.

He said Steve, where's the Chief? I have to tell him, you know -- I said tell him what, Richie? These buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. I said how do you know that, you know? So he ran with me. I ran over and grabbed Chief Ganci and said Chief, these buildings are in imminent danger of collapse. He looked up at me.


-- Interview, New York Times: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/2005...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Why did Giuliani lie to the 9/11 Commission about warning the firefighters?
http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040520.h...

In the epic accounts of Sept. 11 provided over the last two days by former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani and his aides, the Police and Fire Departments bravely worked together, and no catastrophic failure to communicate doomed scores of firefighters inside the World Trade Center. Instead, Mr. Giuliani testified, those firefighters heard an evacuation order, but still did not leave the building. They were "standing their ground" to make sure civilians got out, he said.

Mr. Giuliani's vision of the day, offered during his testimony before the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, addressed the loss of many firefighters who appeared to have had ample opportunity to escape. Along with his former commissioners of the police, fire and emergency management departments, Mr. Giuliani denied that the city's response suffered from the central problems identified by the panel and by earlier city investigations. The firefighters "were interpreting an evacuation order the way a brave rescue worker would interpret an evacuation order, which is to first get the civilians out and then get yourself out," Mr. Giuliani said.

For all the power of his voice and stature, however, Mr. Giuliani's account must compete with a substantial and diverse body of evidence that flatly contradicts much of what he and his aides say happened that day, particularly on matters that could be seen as reflecting on the performance of his administration. On perhaps the most painful of these, the loss of at least 121 firefighters in the north tower, Mr. Giuliani suggested that they stayed inside the trade center because they were busy rescuing civilians -- never mentioning that they could not hear warnings from police helicopters, that many of them never learned the south tower had collapsed or that they were having serious problems staying in touch with their own commanders.

Witnesses who escaped from the tower tell a vastly different story than Mr. Giuliani. They say that in the north tower's final 15 minutes, only a handful of civilian office workers were still in the bottom 44 floors of the building, perhaps no more than two or three dozen. Many of the firefighters who remained in the towers were between the 19th and 37th floors, having made slow progress up the stairs in their heavy gear. It is clear, witnesses said, that even after the south tower collapsed, many, if not most, of the firefighters had no idea that they were in dire peril, or that it was time for them to leave. In contrast, police officers received strong guidance from their commanders to get out of the building, the commission reported, thanks in large part to the information sent to the ground by police helicopters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardcore Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Two big 'atta girls' for Stephanie
She's absolutely right. Anyone who has to lie to make their point loses the argument along with their credibility.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Man, and all this time I thought Bush was the king of staged photo-ops...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-09-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
39. 527 Commercial anyone?
Doesn't hurt to shut down Giuliani before he goes further. They also need to get some 911-family members to remind the public how Giuliani didn't order the Towers to be evacuated before the second plane hit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stonebone Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-10-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
49. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KalicoKitty Donating Member (777 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
56. What a wuss
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-11-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. Maybe We Should Count Our Blessings...
...And make sure that someone like Crude Rudy and Noot run for Prez, and Veep on the Rapeublican side.
All the better to beat them.
We can have them eating their own in no time, they always do. I couldn't think of better candidates for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jun 24th 2019, 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC