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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 11:58 AM
Original message
Coulter quote on killing liberals
"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."

Ann Coulter, February 26, 2002

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter#Liberals (second quote)
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JaneQPublic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, in light of the UU killings. . .
Coulter should be arrested as an assessory to murder.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. in light of the first amendment, she can't be
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Perhaps if the Constitution were still a document that anyone pays
attention to she can't. However, the Constitution seems to be irrelevant these days to those who are supposed to uphold it, so I say arrest her and put her on trial and see where the chips fall.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. arguing that the constitution should be further tarnished may work for you
but not for me.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater.
Even the first amendment is a limited right.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. and this isn't remotely close to falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater
See Brandeburg v. Ohio, (SCT, 1969), where the conviction of a KKK leader for "advocacy" of violence was overturned. The statements made by the KKK at a rally that were the subject of the prosecution in Brandenburg were no less offensive than the statements in the links you provided: "Bury the n******rs" was one. "There might have to be some revegeance (sic) taken" against blacks was another. And, it was added: "We intend to do our part". Keep in mind that these statements were made by Klansmen in full regalia openly displaying shotuguns, pistols and other firearms at the time.

But the SCOTUS unanimously reversed their conviction. Why? The court made it clear that in order constitute a criminal act, speech must be directed to inciting or producing "imminent" lawless action and must be "likely" to incite or produce such action. If the threats in Brandenburg were not specific enough to create the kind of probable and imminent risk of action necessary to overcome the first amendment, its a given that abstract advocacy by rw radio blowhards falls short as well.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. And that will depend on what happens next...
If, as seems likely by the facts in the Knoxville case, this remains an isolated incident, then you're right.

If, as time goes by, violence against "liberals" increases, then I'd say the inciters will need to be legally stopped.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Sorry, but the first amendment doesn't consider RW radio "inciters"
And it never will. At least I hope not, because if it does, then the First Amendment can be put on the trash heap with the other parts of the Constitution that chimpy and gang have pissed over.

I ascribe to the views of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: "Every idea is an incitement. It offers itself for belief and if believed it is acted on unless some other belief outweights it or some failure of energy stifles the movement at its birth. The only difference between the expression of an opinion and incitement in the narrower sense is the speaker's enthusiasm for the result. Eloquence may set fire to reason. But whatever may be thought of the redundant discourse before us it had not chance of starting a present conflagration. If in the long run the beliefs expressed in porletarian dictatorship are to be accepted by the domninant forces of the community, the only meaning of free speech is that they should be given their chance and have their way."

Or as William O. Douglas pointed out, even a test of incitement that is based on a "clear and present danger" standard is a threat to free speech and anathema to the First Amendment.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Sorry, advocating violence against specific groups is a luxury...
Edited on Tue Jul-29-08 04:08 PM by Junkdrawer
that exists only when the advocacy is not acted out.

There are no absolute rights.

You know and I know that, if it were liberal commentators advocating violence against conservatives, the new terror laws would be used in an instant to shut down said commentators and, more than likely, jail them.

But, since liberals are more often associated with advocating constitutional rights, we're told that said hate speech is protected speech.

As for myself, I'd like to see speech stay as free as possible. But if large numbers of people were being killed, I'd want the inciters stopped. Now, as I said, we're not there yet and I hope this all remains hypothetical. But, again, common sense must prevail - there are no absolute rights.


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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. you know and I know that if liberal commentators were jailed for their speech
we'd be screaming bloody murder about it.

I choose to be consistent. Like William O. Douglas, Oliver Wendell Holmes, and other defenders of the Constitution.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. If she can't get arrested for being caught red-handed committing voter fraud
what's a little incitement to murder going to matter?
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Time doesn't really mellow her bile, does it?
what a waste of protoplasm...
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why quote her here or anywhere?
She's only talking to get attention, and you're giving it to her.

Let her rot.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The light of day seems to me to be a very good reason.
Adkisson's acts did not occur in a vacuum.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's right, and she's not an unknown
She thrives on attention; that's the coin of her realm. Ignoring her is the one way to take away her power.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Why does she get a pass to spread hate in the shadows?
How is this situation any different the erroneous advice to ignore playground bullies? I can give you at least 50 cases where playground bullies have been ignored by peers and authorities, allowing them to grow up with zero repercussions, to become adult bullies.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Your comparisons
are quite off the wall. So, we'll just let this go, agree to disagree, and I wish you well.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. To continue to illustrate the enviroment that Coulter (among others) helps to create.
An environment where a man like Adkisson feels he can justify his hatred and his actions. People like Coulter are dangerous, and just because we don't like what they say, doesn't mean that ignoring them will make them go away.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. We need a thread collecting as many of these hate-speech quotes as we can find.
Edited on Tue Jul-29-08 12:31 PM by Heidi
ETA: Drag 'em out into the light of day.

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Good idea ! DU is a most excellent place for such daylight ! nt
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Excellent idea! nt
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. I wish that the president of Ann Coulter's fan club
would show the same initiative that the president of Selena's fan club did.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. So...
How is wishing harm to her different from her wishing harm to us?
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Look where taking the high road gets us....
dead.

Killed while at church, watching children perform "Annie" because you have a different political ideology.

Dragged behind trucks for being a different color.

Beaten and tied to a fence and left to die for being gay.

Ad nauseum...


Play Mr Nice Guy if you want.

Fuck them.

You bet I wish them harm.

They don't deserve a rich, happy life.

They deserve every bit of pain and misery that they advocate on a DAILY basis upon others.

It's way past time that they get what they give, instead of getting away with it.

Fuck Ann Coulter
Fuck Rush Limbaugh
Fuck Bill O'Rielly
Fuck Sean Hannity
Fuck Michael "Savage"
Fuck Ted Nugent...and the countless other souless reich-wing assholes.

They, and the rest of the merchants of swill deserve exactly the same amount of sympathy and mercy that they bestow upon others...

NONE.
AT.
ALL.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I really don't think I can agree with you on this.
Wishing harm on others for being different is what Coulter, Savage, Hannity, et al regularly do and encourage in others. It seems to me that you're suggesting that in order to beat them at their game we have to become them, that we have to hate them as much as they hate us. I just can't buy into that.

Hatred does not erase or negate hatred, it just perpetuates more of itself. The hatred on their part has its roots in ignorance, and the solution to ignorance is education.

As a gay man I hear what you're saying, and I truly realize that there are people out there that wish me harm for being gay (or liberal, or anything else). I'm well aware that taking the high road may leave me dead, but to take the low road is to buy into their fear and let it consume you. And that, to me, is a life not worth living.

I would rather die taking the high road than live taking the low road.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Thank you...
:applause:
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. that's your perogative
I don't "buy" their fear.

And you can't educate these people.

They've willingly surrendered their brains and their souls on the altar of neo-conservatism.

I really can't find myself wishing them a good life and prosperity, a happy pain-free life.

Just can't do it.

I'd rather live with bloody hands than die with a bootprint on my back.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. You're staring at a problem and not even recognizing it.
Edited on Tue Jul-29-08 04:30 PM by seawolf
"The hatred on their part has its roots in ignorance, and the solution to ignorance is education."

Yes, that's true, but the RW blowhards' rants are condemning education, too, arguing that it's a waste of money. People have been buying into that idea for the past 20-30 years, and that's why we're in such a mess. Can't educate the ignorance out of people if there's no money to support diversity/sensitivity classes and the like.

Try these motherfuckers for treason and speedily execute them. Without their blathering constantly reinforcing hatred, ignorance and anti-intellectualism, we might actually be able to work towards permanently reducing the amount of bigotry in this country.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Please allow me to clarify one point.
When I said "education" upthread, I wasn't referring to a formal, K-12 public school education. You're right about the RW's disdain for education of any type, as they thrive by the masses remaining ignorant. We stand to improve as a party (and more importantly, a nation) when our people are better educated on the whole. Our schools are horribly funded and our teachers don't get paid nearly enough for the jobs they do, which is one of our nation's most important jobs IMHO.

I was referring more to our everyday interactions with these types of people. As in never letting a RW talking point go unchallenged when you hear it, trying to show people the error in their thinking through logic and reason, and showing them that liberals (or any other marginalized group) are not the monsters our media and other talking heads make us out to be. Teach them that they can question the facts and the motives behind what their leaders tell them, and that they are better off for doing so. Cognitive dissonance and willful ignorance can be motherfuckers to overcome, but it is possible. I've seen it happen with people in my own life.

When Coulter (among others) publicly says that liberals are traitors ("America haters"), and liberals treat the people who hear that message with hatred and scorn for holding those beliefs to be true ("liberals hating other Americans"), then in their minds, we just validate their beliefs and prove that Coulter is correct. Sitting back, hating these people, and wishing them bad will does absolutely nothing to help the problem, and I believe it makes the problem worse.

The only person that is harmed is the person doing the hating, and I just won't let that hatred and fear consume me. I won't give up on these people.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Perhaps if she had a taste of her own medicine, she may reconsider her hate. n/t
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. !!!! Delightful thought!!!
A gun wouldn't do it though. They'd need a hammer and stake.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. and a sword
the head must be separated from the body so it will not rise again.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bloodthirsty Bitches and Pious Pimps of Power by Gerry Spence !
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FKA MNChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Gotta love Gerry Spence!
Whatta ya really think of the Corporate Media and the Reich Wing hatemongers, Ger?
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. No doubt she'll cheer this asshat and his deeds
Her next column will be either homage or They Asked For It. She has no ability to be human when things like this occur.

And she will prove it by thursday.
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. Ann is evil
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