Ford to retool U.S. plants for European cars

[DainBramaged]

July 19, 2008 - 1:30 pm ET

Ford Motor Co. is drawing up plans to retool American plants to make small, fuel-efficient passenger cars that it mainly makes and sells in Europe, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

The paper said Ford has looked at bringing over European models, including the mid-size Mondeo, in response to high fuel costs that have hit sales of larger, fuel-hungry trucks and sport utility vehicles.

Citing people familiar with the matter, the Journal said portions of this move could be announced on Thursday when the No. 2 U.S. automaker reports second-quarter results.

In June, Ford announced it would slash output this year by eliminating shifts, slowing assembly lines and idling truck plants. The car maker said further details on its revised restructuring plan would be provided when it released its second-quarter results.

In an e-mail response to a request for comment on the Journal report, Ford spokesman Mark Truby said the company would not release details of its plans before Thursday.

"We won't comment on speculation on what we may or may not announce in advance," he said.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080719/ANA02/912965472/1176

[notadmblnd]

1. This could be a good thing?

maybe we'll finally get some of our jobs back from overseas?

[DainBramaged]

3. It would be nice, wouldn't it!

[DainBramaged]

2. Some pictures and specs

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/all_cars/-/-

Like the KA micro-car.

http://www.fordeumicrosites.com/ka_brandtail/default.asp?xml=en-gb#

[SmileyRose]

22. I could smack Ford.

They are selling the same thing as my Freestyle (Galaxy) in Europe that gets 34mpg combined on gasoline and 43mpg on diesel but my US version gets 20mpg combined?

That just makes me mad all over.

[DainBramaged]

24. Me too, GM is doing the same thing, they think we are idiots

But they HAVE to change their business model to survive. Know this, the average SELLING price for a new car in Europe is over $35,000. Here it's around $24,000.

Trucks are another story.

[dysfunctional press]

26. does ford offer a convertible in the american market...?

it's unbelievable, the difference between the european and amrican lines for the big 'american' automakers.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. Ford has made some very nice cars in Europe over the years

like this ultra elegant Ford Comete with a V8 engine and manual 4-speed made at the Ford subsidiary factory in France in the 1950s. This is one of the most beautiful cars made in the 1950s.

[Indenturedebtor]

61. Yes that has beautiful lines n/t

[Clark2008]

68. At least it's not a Bubble-Butt

(see my post below)

Make them like that, Ford, will ya?

[SoCalDem]

109. reminds me of a Karman Ghia

cute car

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

113. It's larger

and a lot more elegant, with a leather interior. I saw one on ebay a few months ago that was going for just under $50,000. They've become real collector items. Here's another view:

[amandabeech]

58. Love that Focus coupe'!

Guys who want something with zip and good gas mileage to replace the SUV might find that coupe' enticing.

Wasn't the Contour the Mondeo? I had a few as rental cars and I loved the reponsive steering. It's a little bigger than the Focus, and maybe would do better here this time.

Are any of them available in diesel?

[Clark2008]

70. It is the prettiest thing on the page save the GT.

It's the only one without a bubble-butt (sorry - that's a pet peeve of mine - don't mean to say it so often.)

[amandabeech]

117. I agree. n/t

[Clark2008]

66. Awww... crap.

I love the Ford Motor Company. I drive a Mustang, but WHY, oh WHY did they have to go with that god-awful BUBBLE design for these new cars?

I, personally, think it's ugly - but that's just an opinion. What I want to know is how is something that round fuel efficient? It looks like the more sleek models would rack up less wind-resistance.

Why can't they make an affordable sports car/small car that looks like something Glenda the Good Witch isn't tooling around in.

:grr:

[LSK]

88. The 4x4 Diesel Powered Kuga SUV gets 44.1 MPG

http://www.ford.co.uk/ns7/Kuga/-/co2_model_kuga/-/-/-/-

WHY THE FUCK ISNT THAT SOLD HERE?

[TommyO]

90. The mileage in US MPG isn't quite as spectacular

That's 44.1 MPG based on Imperial gallons, in US gallons it's more like 36.7, still pretty darned good!

[hogwyld]

122. The SUV is a dying breed

When are American going to get off that sinking ship?

[tridim]

4. I never understood why Ford's European line isn't for sale here

They'd sell millions of Ka's and Fiesta's.

[Mr. Blonde]

7. I would bet the margins on those are pretty small

especially when compared to SUVs and F-150s. Why waste time and money on something you only make a little bit on when you can sell just as many of something you make considerably more on?

Now things are changing and they can't make anything on SUVs and trucks because no one will buy them. Any income stream will be seized on now.

[krispos42]

12. Because you can really only have one small car...

at least until the gas prices hit. They had the Escort, which they sold at or below cost during the 90's because each one balanced (in terms of fuel economy) a Ford Explorer that they made $10,000 profit on.

But Ford having two cars essentially fighting themselves for market share? Not good.

And remember how the "world car" Ford Contour faired? It was larger and more expensive than the Escort but had about the slightly less interior room.

Now things are changing. If the European-spec cars also meet US automotive standards by virtue of design, then certifying them for sale here should be fairly straightforward and accomplished with minimal changes.

This means that the Euro cars won't have the three-barred chrome grill that is the current hallmark of Ford, but it will get them on the streets fast and cheap.

Frankly, I think they should raise the CAFE standard to 30mpg by 2011, then let it go to 35 by 2020. The automakers could achieve the first goal simply by selling a lot more of their microcompacts, subcompacts, and compacts and fewer of the pickup trucks and SUVs. Let them ration SUV sales so that prices will go up and people that want them will have to bid on them. I bet most people won't simply for scratching a macho itch and would opt for something more sensible instead. Or buy a used one, which is also environomentally friendly.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. About the Contour...

Wasn't that basically the North American version of the Mondeo?

[SmileyRose]

20. Yes.

contour failed, I'm guessing, because the quality was just awful. A friend bought one that was an absolute lemon and found out most people who had it were having the same problems. It's my understanding the Mondeo has pretty decent quality.

[krispos42]

30. That's what I believe it was. The Mondeo platform.

Didn't go over so well.


Not that the imports haven't had their share of boners here on American soil, either. But that idea just never took off like it was suppose to.

Americans traditionally have different tastes, and that is the way I lean as well. I'm not a corner-carver and I don't really care how "sharp" the car feels, or how tuned the chassis is, etc. I'm not expert enough to really notice the difference or appreciate it. I want a comfortable car with plenty of power, a smooth ride, and a tight turning radius. :shrug: I'm pretty simple. An average car can do a single turn about as well as a sportier car, and that's good enough for me. I'm not going to be doing a slalom, so as long as my car can turn sharply to avoid a deer or pedestrian or another car, then get yanked back on course, I'm happy.

My car is more of an appliance to me than a source of enjoyment. Although I do love to row my own gears...

[Clark2008]

72. Funny, the guys on Top Gear LOVED it

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/hatchbacks/top-gear-picks-ford-mondeo-as-family-car-of-the-year/

And... I'm betting they're more car experts than 99 percent of the people on this blog.

[high density]

93. The 2007 Mondeo is on a brand new platform

It is not the old Contour. It shares the platform with the current Volvo S80.

[comtec]

132. and they H A T E american made cars

They take the mickey out of US made cars EVERY change that comes up...
but they LOVED the mondeo.
Their complaints about American cars (rightfully so) is the cheap plastic dash, the bad mileage (from guys who drive FERRARI'S) too little power, and crappy suspension.
it irks me, but they are right.
compared to european/japanese cars, the US designed stuff really does suck for the money you have to pay.

[amandabeech]

59. They won't sell many SUVs so long as the gas price stays up,

and I can't see it go below $3.50.

There are so many late model, low mileage, or never sold SUVs sitting around here in the DC area car lots that it is pathetic!

I don't see that anything that's not hybrid really selling until this huge backlog of cheap used vehicles clears out.

[old mark]

89. They were selling millions of the giant SUV's and

oversized pickups till about 6 weeks ago.
US automakers have been making great small cars in Europe for many years.
They sell the oversized, overpriced shit to those dumb enough to buy them.

mark

[flvegan]

5. Hope this encourages a Vauxhall invasion from GM, too.

Some of those Euro spec cars are fantastic!

[dbt]

9. Wouldn't THAT be a hoot!

I had the sheer pleasure of driving a Vauxhall Corsa from London to St. Ives across Bodmin Moor back in 1995. That little car was as tight as the head on a bodhran in the winter and it ran like its shiny little ass was ON FIRE.

But wait a MINUTE. How many wakeup calls has the Murkin Automobile Industry HAD since late 1973? And how may of them has it fucking SLEPT through?

:evilgrin:

[flvegan]

10. And just LOOK at this

This is the SRi version. Tell me that GM wouldn't sell a million of these.

[dbt]

11. That's what I'm talkin' ABOUT!

GM in the US needs a good KILLING.

[hogwyld]

82. Why stop at GM?

Give the world a good, efficient, vehicle, and the "big 3" will find a way to ruin it...

[Clark2008]

73. I see it... and it's ugly

My God, when are car manufacturers going to stop with this round rear thing.

:grr:

I'm sure I'm out-numbered on this board, but quite a few of my friends and neighbors don't like these rounded rear designs, either. All cars are starting to look the same and what's the fun in that?

I don't want to drop several thousand for a car I think is ugly.

[amandabeech]

60. The automakers aren't the ones buying vehicles. We all do.

Folks bought small cars when gas prices were high. Then prices went into decline, the mid-90s showed up spewing cash, and voila'--big vehicles just like the ones in the '60s and early '70s before the first oil shock. Personally, I think that here in the U.S. people like big vehicles and don't care about handling.

People will be looking for SUVs again if oil prices go under $2.50, although this time, I don't think that's happening. Euro gas and diesel prices are higher than ours due to taxes and that's been the case for ages. If the Euros had low gas prices and wide roads, they might be driving bigger vehicles, too.

[Gold Metal Flake]

6. Ford, don't stop with Europe.

Bring the Ute.

[TheMightyFavog]

18. That reminds me of the El Camino or a Ranchero.

End of Line.

[Gold Metal Flake]

25. The Ute preceeded the Ranchero by about five years.

The Ranchero, introduced in 1957 model year, was developed from the early Ute. The El Camino was GM's "me, too" answer to the Ranchero, introduced in 1959 with the cool bat wings.

Others have done similar, like the VW Caddy version of the Rabbit, and something Dodge did in the early 80s. The Utes were more work-ready, being that their beds are separate from the body. Anyways, they sure are cool and I think a lot of folks would go for it.

[Clark2008]

74. That's because that's basically what it is.

[sellitman]

8. They do this or face elimination.

Maybe the gas prices have a silver lining?

[madrchsod]

13. to expensive to make in europe and sell here

amazing is`t it--->it`s cheaper to make them here

[peanut2010]

14. I personnaly like the Falcon built in Australia

These cars are built the way I like cars to be.They have a choice of V8 or 6 cyl.engines 5 or 6 speed transmisions automatic or manual and rear wheel drive.They also build a Falcon Ute(Ranchero here)that is nice and would haul a fair load.I would like to see a 2 door version(I hate 4 door cars).If they would offer a diesel in the U.S. they would be perfect.

[blues90]

15. Screw ford and the other big two

They screwed the people over all these years out of greed and now they want to make a come back. They had this grand plan back in the 70's and look what they did , built the big gas hogs . Fuck them I hope they fold up and fail and burn in hell . I wouldn't buy any of their crap if i were a billionair.

People need to get their minds out of the personal ride ownership , and go with mass transport rather than sit in traffic, looking out of glass like a damn fool. No matter what they come out with you still have the car and the traffic and the insurance and all the other crap that comes with this. It's not the answer.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thothmes]

31. Lets screw Ford

We dont need all of those folks working for that Big bad corp that is destroying the environment. Lets get those thousands of employess a few more weeks of unemployment so that they can give up their Union jobs at Ford and become independant IT contractors after their extensive fully funded retraining programs. Yep screw Ford.

[blues90]

38. My thread in response to this was deleted

My point is ford and the other big two have been screwing the people and their employees now for some time. I worked for ford for over 33 years and you have no idea how they cut back because of thier own efforts to avoid quality built efficient cars.

My main point is these very same union jobs could become jobs building all aspects of mass transit and maintaining it if it were funded . and there is no reason that every one in every part of the country could not have access to mass transit and at least be offered the choice.

Why must the focus always been on the cars and trucks , these are nothing more than out of control with a lot of expense tied to them and the traffic jambs and travel time and insurance and accidents will not change just the what powers the auto's.

I feel the focus for transportation is on the wrong area. Just becuse cars have been here for so long does not mean they are the best solution.

People do all this talk about change but they never want to get to the root of what needs to be changed.

What do you suppose ford will actually pay these new workers building the new euro cars? Do you actually think it will be what a union worker once got?

How many chances does ford deserve? Or is it just that people really don't want a better faster way of travel and want their own personal ride of pride? Don't tell me it's about unions. It's about resistence to change. Many union workers have lost quite a lot of their former wage.

Do you have the answers, if so lets hear it.

[Thothmes]

49. Your are correct on all accounts

But, the immediate damage will be if Ford or GM fold. It will not be the senior managers or CEOs that get screwed. Certainly every major metropolitan area need to shed the personnel automobile as the primary means of transportation. Rail, buses,& subways are the way to go. The costs will be astonomical, but the benefits will continue on into the next century. At this time and for the forseeable future, there is no economical way to connect Wright Wyoming, with Moscow Idaho except by road. The personal automobile is still the best option in rural America. JMO.

[blues90]

84. That may be true .

But that is not the case in many areas in the US where we have had many years to develope mass transit and just as much resistence to it.

Who will be able to afford these new cars especially when the cars people have now with a live payment book will be worthless so they are stuck with what they have.

This is the main problem I have with the big three, they allowed this to happen and promoted cars and trucks that they knew damn well were not the best for now or the future. How many chances are they supposed to get before they once again screw the people over , whether the buyers of their products or the people who work for them?

Their interests are in their own profit not the better of the people.

The big three brought this on themselves and now we should feel bad and then switch to happy because they are finally going to build better cars, isn't it a bit late , how well would that work out for you or me if we did the same thing?

Let the big three buy back all of these gas hogs they pushed and put that toward a better car , then they have made an attempt to redeem themselves but they will never do that.

The auto companies have fought against

all mass transit for years to keep their hold so they don't deserve another chance , really they don't.

They also blamed their workers and then put the fact that older workers who worked to build these companies up cost to much for healthcare so these workers are tossed to the curb.

so if the big three faulter and fail just remember it was their own doing not mine. No one needs a car that can do 0 to 60 in 2 seconds while they sit in traffic , no one.

[DainBramaged]

50. Some people think their dream of a compliant society where THEY

get to make personal choices for people is far better than the choices people themselves make, sorta like the Republican way of intruding in people's lives.

Or Fascism, in it's bluntest term.

[Indenturedebtor]

69. People can still buy cars when there is the public transport option

But we don't have the choice in most cities to go with public transport. Public transport is better for the poor, for the environment, and the commute.

Seriously if you've never lived somewhere with a good train system, I highly recommend at least visiting. It's so much better than sitting and honking in traffic watching money flow out of your tailpipe.

As it stands I am forced to pay out of my ass for a car just to have the option of working. That's not much of a choice :(

[hogwyld]

94. Classic overreaction from Mr. GM

Look, if the people made the RIGHT decisions, we wouldn't be in this mess. Trusting them lead to oil dependency. Who the fuck needs an SUV or full sized truck? Farmers and remote cabin dwellers. The majority never see a dirt road, or haul anything. Wasteful to say the least. I know you think the American car industry is infallible.
What this nation needs is to move away from 20th century technology like the automobile, and rebuild to the European model of mass transit. That's a lot of union labor to maintain and build those systems. Along with a renewable energy policy.

[Owl]

33. America needs a revitalized auto industry. It's a huge part of our economy and way of life.

Modern American cars are wonderfully capable and reliable, though the majority are certainly not in sync with the times. I too am pissed that we can sell fabulously efficient and desirable cars in the UK and Europe, but not offer them here.

America needs a huge culture-shift in damn near all industries we haven't yet given away. And hopefully we can bring some back with real jobs. Our live for today mentality is killing us and our future/children.

Someday if/when you're a "billionair" I hope you'll find an American product to your liking.

- Owl

[blues90]

39. If ford built these cars and sold them in the UK then

ford had full control to build them here and did not. It was not because they could not. It is what ford determined they could sell people here and what people in the UK would not put up with . A lot of what ford has built here in the last 20 years alone has been crap , I know , I worked for ford dealers over 33 years and know there cars and trucks inside out. Crap is what they are with recall lists so long they would blow your mind. Just about every single part is made any where but here in the US and used not because it's a good part but to the lowest bidder.

[Owl]

41. I agree with you and concur that the American division of Ford, GM, etc., seems mindless at times...

damn near like they've some sort of split-personality or worse.

But for cryin' out loud try to find some silver-lining in this.

[blues90]

43. Show me the silver lining ,Please

Even ford cars and truck are completely separate parts within ford , two divisions that do not communicate ever.

Tell me and I mean honestly how there is a future with cars? what will change as far as the way people live other than the fuel and how much space will be needed to park and drive all these cars. I look around today and I would have to say between 1968 and today there has to be a 1,000% more cars on the road if not more since then. Just take 1980 to today . What good can there be if this is the ideology we hang onto?

What is in it for you personally to hang onto a car if you had the option of good mass transit?

[Owl]

47. Again I agree with you. This country needs a massive infusion of realism and mass-transit.

My recent jobs have enabled me to travel many times to UK and Europe. I've always been amazed at the efficiency and ease of commuting between countries. Fabulous underground railways and above-ground rail and hi-speed systems just plain make so much sense.

The silver lining is the hope that palatable small and efficient cars will be the bridge to enabling the acceptance of mass transit. It seems the american public has an aversion to mass transit. I'd LOVE a bus-line to be closer to my use!

[Clark2008]

75. No they didn't.

They made cars people in American wanted to buy. It's called capitalism and American, like it or not, participates in that form of economy.

That being said, yes, I agree that people need to change their mind-set - but that's not Ford's (or GM's) fault.

Now that there is a market for economical smaller cars, guess what? Ford is bringing them over from Europe.

Makes sense to me.

[blues90]

104. how do you arrive at this conclusion?

Do you think it was the people who came up with the idea of the SUV and the huge mega SUV's?

No these things are decided by the manufacturer after they fan out to see what they think will sell. Then they market it with a push to make these seem the norm and desirable.

There was a market for small cars in the mid 70's and they were produced then suddenly when the gas shortage vanished from the publics mind then along came the big three all geared up to bring back the high performance cars and SUV's which got larger in size when in fact no one needed these things.

The auto companies steer this not the people.

It became a race to see which one of the big three could build the largest SUV , even companies who never made trucks like mercury and Mercedes and Cadillac jumped into the competition.

[Codeine]

114. Nobody MADE people buy SUVs, dude.

People really liked them; the extra room, the high ride, the extended sight lines, the fortress feeling, and the luxury factor made them perfect for the cheap-gas, cash-flush 90s and the refinance craze of the last five years.

If people wanted little cars Ford would have sold little cars because that's what they do -- they sell stuff. If people wanted reverse trikes with tailfins and neon lights Ford would make those. You want the proof? Well, just look what's happening now; gas goes up, people want small cars, Ford starts makin' 'em.

They just sell us what we want, man.

[blues90]

119. I did'nt say people were forced to by SUV's

I said that people or rather the public did not ask for them. No one came out in some public group think tank and say to ford , build us this. That is not the way it works.

The auto companies hire social shrinks to tell them what might catch on and then they market the idea.

The majority of the population buy what they see others have and it starts small and builds.

There were pickups then we had the bronco and that was about it then the companies wanted to combine these to replace the station wago and over time people ended up with little choice other than the later mini van. But it was all introduced usually at auto shows where dolts go.

[Codeine]

120. Ah, jeez.

So let me lay out what your argument boils down to, shall I? The American public only wanted SUVs because the Big 3 made them and advertised them cleverly, not because Americans have always loved big and showy automobiles. Oh, and anybody that goes to a car show is a dolt.

Yeah. . . :eyes:

[blues90]

123. If you think you all the answers , lets hear them.

"The American public only wanted SUVs because the Big 3 made them and advertised them cleverly, not because Americans have always loved big and showy automobiles."

Isn't this really the same thing? Is this not marketing based on research? Where do you think these new auto's come from , out of thin air?

And yes , people who go to auto shows are dolts.

[Leopolds Ghost]

127. No, America wanted SUVs because automakers needed something to replace CAFE banned station wagons

So they engineered a Pavlovian ad campaign to convince Americans that station wagons were obsolete. Americans are so conformist, that adoption rates of heavily advertised new technology (carefully coordinated roll-out campaigns by a select oligopoly of suppliers and standardizers) are now in the 70% per year range -- the minute 20% of early adopters hit on it, there is a lemming-like rush to throw out one's current belongings and get with the program. TV viewers are made to feel positively eccentric if they do not buy the latest most popular stuff. And there is no room for niches in the market except at the high end. Only the rich are allowed to have consumer choice.

[DainBramaged]

19. It's ALWAYS the anti-Union pretenders who are against any progress

made by AMERICAN auto makers.


Why is that???

[blues90]

105. What would you know about it ?

You are just a hit and run and hide coward.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. Oh please

The little smart car I rented in May next. Oh please oh please oh please!

[Tesha]

28. The Smart is already here. There's one in my neighborhood.

I'd give you the link but a blackout has taken down Comcast's
DNS server so my access to "the internets" is limited right now.

Ahh, here 'tis:

http://www.usa.smart.com/



Tesha

[JCMach1]

53. Smart is rubbish... Very poor economy for the size

[Tesha]

71. From the FAQ...

http://www.usa.smart.com/smart-car-faq.aspx

What is the gas mileage of smart?

Engineering and testing continues to take place on the vehicle that will be produced for the United States. The vehicle is designed to achieve 40 city/45 highway mpg according to 2007 EPA standards and 33 city/41 highway mpg according to 2008 EPA standards. The mpg rating for all vehicles will decrease in 2008 due to new calculation methods that the EPA has adopted. These methods involve measuring mpg while taking into account real life driving conditions such as start/stop city traffic, air conditioning, heating, etc. The gas tank of the smart fortwo is 8.7 gallons.

*Fuel economy estimates were derived in accordance with the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) vehicle testing procedures for model year 2008 as specified in 40 C.F.R. pts. 86 and 600 (2007). These estimates are intended for comparison between other vehicles within the same class. Individual drivers’ actual mileage will vary depending on how they drive and maintain their

---------

33 City/41 Highway using the 2008 method sounds pretty good
to me for a non-hybrid, gasoline-powered car. Do you have any
actual facts to back up your claim that "Smart is rubbish" or are
you just another DUer with "an opinion"?

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

76. The new Chevy Cruze coming in 2009 will get 42+ MPG highway

and it won't be a micro car, and it won't be a death trap, and it will run like a bandit on the highway (140+ HP) for under $15,000.

I'd say the Smart car sucks.

[Tesha]

92. Cars that are "coming soon" always get better mileage than cars that are actually available. (NT)

[DainBramaged]

100. Then go buy one that's available. Don't grind my nuts.

[Tesha]

101. I'm sorry -- I thought you *STARTED THIS THREAD* because you wanted discussion.

If all you're looking for is for people to bow in the
direction of Detroit, well, you should have said so in
the OP.

Tesha

[DainBramaged]

102. (sigh) goodbye, you hate domestics and Union workers anyway

(had to walk away, wanted to finish chewin you out)

You are ALWAYS contrary and negative in any of my auto threads, so I'm going to do like I've done with so many of you morans, click the big red X. Go bother someone else with your hatred of America and it's workers and their products. Go buy more imported shit and put an American out of work.

[Tesha]

103. Nope, don't hate union workes. 'Stood with a great bunch of UAW men and women...

...back in the 1992 NH Primary as we all supported
Tom Harkin. But you're right in saying that I think
that the Big Three automakers are trying to sell us
shit while telling us it's roses. I've bought enough
of their product to know that it's shit, even if it
is painted bright red metallic.

Tesha

[treestar]

107. What are they doing selling cars in the UK then?

Doesn't that put the British out of work?

Get real and cut the self pity.

If they sell them here rather than in the UK, they make money, and that's why they're doing it.

Obviously the transatlantic transportation costs have been minimal, but maybe with the fuel prices going up it will occur to these geniuses that there is little reason to be shipping the cars back and forth. Sell them in the country you made them in.

[DainBramaged]

108. Another X

Thank goodness our ignore lists are unlimited

[Tesha]

131. But can you "ignore" reality, just by clicking on a check-box?

When you think about it, that *IS*, after all, what
the Big Three auto manufacturers have been trying to
do all these decades since about 1970.

Tesha

[bunkerbuster1]

77. 33/41 is pretty good, but I'm a little disappointed

I think you get to kind of a diminishing-results point with passenger cars and normally aspirated gas engines. Realistically, you can't get much smaller (or a whole lot less powerful) than the Smart, and yet its mileage is awfully similar to a "real" car like (say) a Hyundai Accent or Honda Civic.

Kinda wish they'd really pushed the limit and offered a smaller displacement low-boost turbo, tuned for economy. Bet they'd have those numbers closer to the magic 40/50.

[Tesha]

95. Sorry about the lousy formatting, but Smart wins (and by quite a bit)

Year Manufacturer Model Engine Disp. Fuel Trans. City Hwy

2008 Smart forTwo Convertable 3 cylinder 1.0 liter P Automatic 33 41
2008 Smart forTwo Coupe 3 cylinder 1.0 liter P Automatic 33 41

2008 Toyota Yaris 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (L4) Auto 29 35
2008 Toyota Yaris 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (M5) Manual 29 36

2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (L5) Auto 27 34
2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (M5) Manual 28 34
2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (S5) Auto 27 33

2008 Honda Civic Coupe LX 4 cylinder 1.8L ? 5 spd manual 26 34


FYI: The Europe-only Smart diesel:

When the second-generation Smart ForTwo entered production earlier this year, its EU mileage ratings put it at the top of the heap for internal combustion engined cars by a pretty wide margin. On the EU combined cycle the diesel version was rated at 71.3 mpg (US) with CO2 emissions of only 88 g/km.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/29/italian-magazine-verifies-smart-fortwo-cdi-mileage-figures/

[bunkerbuster1]

99. I'm pretty familiar with the little-car stats

I keep looking forward to the day when I can replace my sedan, which is no gas hog but only manages upper-20s on the highway, with something smaller.

I dunno, I don't think a bump from 36 for the Yaris to 41 for a much teenier Smart is such a great trade-off. If parking space were a premium--i.e., if I lived in an urban center--I'd gravitate more toward the Smart. Then again, I'd probably just get myself a nice scooter and have a beater-hatchback for crappy-weather days.

[CreekDog]

85. The Smart got an unfavorable review in Consumer Reports

and even with all the Smart's considerable drawbacks, its mileage was similar to the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris, however, the Smart requires "premium" fuel.

[Tesha]

96. Actual EPA numbers are posted in my reply just above. I wouldn't call then "similar".

I'd call the Smart's numbers "better".

Tesha

[CreekDog]

126. Smart 33/41; Fit 33/38; Yaris 34/40 (you said these aren't similar?)

:wtf:

and the Smart requires premium fuel which means that it costs more in fuel than the other cars, which unlike the Smart, can seat 4 people, ride better and have better acceleration.

why on earth would you say fuel economy is "not similar"?

[Tesha]

130. Here are the numbers I posted for the FIT; what's your source for 33/38?

Here are the numbers I posted for the FIT; what's your source for 33/38?

2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (L5) Auto 27 34*
2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (M5) Manual 28 34*
2008 Honda FIT 4 cylinder 1.5 liter R (S5) Auto 27 33

Remember, the Smart is 33/41, and *ALL* of these are reported
in the new, 2008 "marked down" mileages.

Tesha




* Confirmed at http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/environment.aspx

[CreekDog]

134. Consumer Reports lists the EPA mileage figures

but you are right, EPA reports different numbers and those are lower.

[Tesha]

135. CR probably had the older, higher "2007 method" numbers. (NT)

[CreekDog]

136. that's what i thought

but they shouldn't show them for 2008 models.

[lutefisk]

23. Will cars be built here and shipped overseas?

That would make sense, financially. By the time the plants are ready to produce European models, one Euro should be worth two or three US dollars. Hell, maybe Mexico, China, India, and Thailand will start building their cars here and shipping them home, too.

[blues90]

27. perhaps you would like a copy of the PM you sent for all to see who you really are?

Mr ignore list back door PM'er .

[Owl]

29. The Mondeo's a GREAT car! It's G-damned about time!

[bunkerbuster1]

36. Used to be sold here as the Contour.

Really stupid that they ever dropped it.

(I'd ridden in a Euro version -- the Mondeo -- some years back and can confirm that it certainly was a fine ride.)

[blues90]

40. The contour was the POS of all time crap.

They had every problem in the book . They are the most difficult cars to work on and even had dashs that curled up in the sun with fixes that never solved the problem. Shear junk!

[Owl]

42. The Mondeo's I've driven recently are fine vehicles.

[blues90]

44. they are not the same car .

[Owl]

45. " bringing over European models, including the mid-size Mondeo"

Did you read the article?

[blues90]

48. no i have'nt . To be honest I really have no interest in cars

I have'nt looked at one in years or thought about buying one either. My 1973 VW square back just keeps on ticking and has lasted all these years and gets 38.5 MPG highway .

I saw all the customers I dealt with , with their new fords falling apart in a few years and just left well enough alone.

[JCMach1]

52. Mondeo is NOT a Contour- the new ones are completely different

Contour was POS

[FunkyLeprechaun]

54. The Taurus is similar to the Mondeo

I've always thought the British version of the Taurus was the Mondeo.

[bunkerbuster1]

64. The Brits had a one-size up car that was a rear-driver, unlike the Taurus...

can't remember what it was called though.

[bunkerbuster1]

63. You're saying the old Contour wasn't the similar-vintage Mondial of the 90s?

Well, I remember otherwise (used to be in Europe on binness a fair amount), and wiki does too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Contour

The Ford Contour is a North American variant of the European Ford Mondeo saloon previously sold by Ford Motor Company. It was sold in North America from 1994 (as a 1995 model) through 2000. The platform also underpinned a Mercury version called Mystique and the 1999 to 2002 iteration of the Mercury Cougar. It was called the Contour in the US as Ford thought people would associate Mondeo with 'Rodeo'.

[TommyO]

86. I had a '98 1/2 Contour and loved it! Wish I had gotten the manual

instead of the automatic, but my ex couldn't drive a stick.

It's great that some of the more euro-designed Fords are coming here. The Focus that we have here is a bastard child, not even remotely in the same league as the rest of the world gets.

[bunkerbuster1]

133. Oy, the Focus. Ford, WTF are you thinking?

Yeah, that's s something I've hauled out time and again as an example of why American carmakers treat small car buyers as distinctly second-class citizens. The original Focus represented something exciting--not just its out-there (at the time) facade, but knowing that it shared a platform with the solid Mazda Protege (now the three-series.)

Then the European Focuses got completely updated, and the American Focuses got sheetmetal tweaks.

And for 2008, while it's been significantly re-designed, these idiots have actually dropped the hatchback and wagon versions altogether!

What are they thinking? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Diclotican]

32. DainBramaged

DainBramaged

GOOD, finay Ford Motor Company have "got" it.. And if they just managed to get it right, to sell an european designed car in the US, off course they have to find a way to get the american public interesting in the car. But no larger than the Monedo maybe. And the ford Monedo is by the way a very good car to drive;). My father had one and it was a delight to drive. And fast, but had automatic (boooring) but with a 3L engine it worked pretty well on the road:) And the millage was not bad I guess either 0.8L on regular driving. And if Ford managed to build all this Small and medium sized cars in Europe, with good mileage and good engines, why can't they do the same in US. The Ford Company are not that brain dead in the US are they?..


Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[spanone]

34. when in europe i've always been impressed by the better feel of the european ford

[bunkerbuster1]

37. Can we have the Ka? Pretty please?

[DainBramaged]

46. KAKA KAKA KAKA

Yup. Nice looking small car

[JCMach1]

51. Mondeo is better than what Toyota is making this days... what shocks me is how long it took them

to get a farking clue!

[FunkyLeprechaun]

55. What about Fiat in the US?

They make great cars! I've got a Panda...

However, we're thinking Ford for a 2nd car when I get a job. It's just better overall. Our Panda is fine, but it's a bit small in the back.

[DainBramaged]

56. Fiat never succeeded here, bad service reputation

and the wrong cars for the market at the time.

[amandabeech]

65. The Fiats had a reputation of poor functioning in cold climates.

They were popular in California, though, as I recall. Boyfriend had one.

[lutefisk]

112. The metal on the body would rust to bits from moisture and road salt. Great cars to drive, though.

I enjoyed driving my 850 and 124, even though the 850's suspension rusted apart from the frame and the 124's front fenders had completely rusted off the car.

[amandabeech]

118. Had they caught on in Michigan (ha-ha), they would have brought

lots of business to my autobody repairman Dad, who specialized in "Michigan cancer," otherwise known as rust.

[SoCalDem]

110. My son bought a Fiat recently.. a 1973 convertible

he paid $1k for it, put about $1k into it, and he and his wife fight over who gets to drive it..
(his is yellow, but like this beauty)


They also have a 2007 mustang, a 1967 Mustang, a 2005 Passat, and a Ford F-250.. They are "car-people" :eyes:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

124. Those are nice

They are one of the affordable oldies left that you can still pick up for a very reasonable price and spare parts are still plentiful because so many were imported. An old girlfriend of mine had one and they are really fun to drive.

[B3Nut]

57. It's about damned time.

Took 'em long enough to even get the revitalized Focus over here. When they brought the original Focus here in MY2000, it had been in production in Europe since the 1998 model year. They make and sell their cutting-edge stuff to Europe while making their own country wait two years for the leftovers. In '06 when I was shopping for a small hatchback that I could fit a Leslie organ speaker (damn musicians and their crazy vehicular needs anyway! ;) ) into they had warmed-over the old Focus and made the fuel economy worse. Yay progress. The sole GM offering (Chevy Aveo, a rebadged Daewoo Kalos) had a less-than-exciting EPA figure and the liftgate was too narrow for the cabinet to load into easily. Daimler-Chrysler had exactly zip, the Caliber had just come out but was pricey at the time (and I must confess to finding exactly none of Chrysler's current line aesthetically attractive...no accounting for taste, but still...)

About time they got with the program. I settled on a little Kia hatch that's been an astonishingly superb little car, but I'd really really really rather buy American if they can give me something that will fit my needs. The Big 3 had what I could use...if I was willing to move to Europe. (And why, when the Chevy Cobalt was more or less based on the Astra platform, didn't they bring the hatch version over? I *LOVED* the way the coupe drove, but the trunk opening was way too small. I'd have bought a Cobalt hatchback in a minute! Had I not needed a hatchback so badly a Cobalt Coupe would have followed me home...I was sorely tempted...great little car...evil seductive temptress though she is! Now they're finally bringing the Astra hatch over as a Saturn over 2 years later...gee thanks guys!)

C'mon Detroit...I know you got it in ya. You can doooo eeeeeeett!!!! :D

[DainBramaged]

67. The new Saturn is hot!

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/astra/5door/overview.jsp?seo=goo_|_2008_Saturn_Retention_|_IMG_Saturn_ASTRA_|_ASTRA_General_|_saturn_astra

[B3Nut]

79. Oh yeah baby!

That's what I'm talking about!

I'm gonna drool now...

edit: i kant tipe

[hogwyld]

62. Wouldn't it be better to just import them?

Once we turn the manufacturing over to Ford America, quality will go to crap, and they'll be looking to cut cost every which way possible. Leave well enough alone, and let the Europeans keep building a quality product.

[Clark2008]

78. Wow... way to shit on American workers.

:eyes:

[hogwyld]

80. How come every time a car design is modified here

to be manufactured, the quality always go to hell? Take the Contour, Opel, Fiesta as examples. I don't necessarily blame the workers, but the management cutting costs to the bone. It might be time to retrain the auto workers into a different vocation that doesn't rely on destroying the earth.

[Leopolds Ghost]

128. "Time to retrain the workers to do something that doesn't destroy the earth"

Such as...?

[lutefisk]

81. Isn't it shitting on the executives/decision makers, not the workers?

American workers do a good job building Hondas and Toyotas. It's not the workers, it's the mentality at the top.

[hogwyld]

83. Exactly! Unless we can decapitate the management

we'll never win at this. Besides, I think that the automobile is 20th century, and we need to get everyone into public transit.

[DainBramaged]

87. That is the norm here, and why I put so many people on ignore

Unions and their members are shit on DU

[Real_Talk]

91. quick question for you

I would like you to clarify for me why it is bad to buy Japanese cars built in America. I am not jerking your chain here. I grew up in a union(steel) home and like to buy American. The question I have is if the car is built in the US with US components then isn't it better than buying an American badged car built in Mexico or Canada?

[Romulox]

97. You answered your own question: "built in the US with US components"

Most Japanese cars "built" in the US are actually assembled in the US, largely of imported content.

[sentelle]

115. as are american cars

Built of parts Imported from mexico.

Yes, Mexico is still a separate country in my eyes. If you think otherwise, you are a racist.

[DainBramaged]

98. Te workers earn less in wages and benefits than UAW workers, the profits go back to japan

their local parts support is about 25% of what the Domestics are (they import most of their parts and back door them through front companies), they aren't made with 'local' components like a GM or Ford vehicle, their workers are held hostage and are fired for the slightest infraction, their vacations and sick days are minimal, they build their plants in mostly Union unfriendly, low income, high unemployment, poorly educated areas of the country where they can get the most of a free ride from the local and State governments.


Why don't they build plants in the Northeast? Or Upper Midwest?


Because they don't want to build in BLUE states.

Is that enough?

[Xithras]

111. Minor quibble but...

they build their plants in mostly Union unfriendly, low income, high unemployment, poorly educated areas of the country

I've always felt that low income, high unemployment, poorly educated areas should get the FIRST PRIORITY when plants like this are developed. The lower the average income in a particular area is, the more it needs the economic stimulus from industrial plants like these. Development priority should be based on need, not politics.

[hogwyld]

121. Not only that, but I would suspect

that the sites used to build the factories are quite a bit cheaper in these depressed areas.

[Real_Talk]

138. Are the content lables false?

Are you saying the content labels on cars like the ones referred to here http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=amMadeParts&subject=ami are not correct?

[NNN0LHI]

116. Umm, who is going to be able to afford to purchase one if the jobs are overseas?

[Imagevision]

106. Early 70's Cadilac was including a Honda free with every purcase.

[roamer65]

125. I plan on buying the new Ford Verve.

Neat looking car that is due out in about one year.

http://autoshows.ford.com/207/2008/01/13/verve-concept-ford%e2%80%99s/

[cherokeeprogressive]

129. How about a gubmint subsidy for any commuter car built in this country that gets over 40mpg

and stands up to NTSB crash standards?

Say we promise that every one of those cars sold in this country would be exempt from federal excise taxes for the first ten years of its sale?

A two-seater car with a tubular frame, with no luxuries other than A/C, a heater, and a radio?

[TommyO]

137. GM is not resting either.

The new Opel Insignia, future Saturn Aura was announced today, and it looks like a huge winner.

Here's a bit from MotorTrend:

Up to now, GM still hasn't quite gotten the "world car" thing cracked, despite the much-touted links between Saturn and the European Opel brand. The Saturn Astra is a fine little car but was designed without a second thought to U.S. consumers, and funnily enough they've not taken it to their hearts. On the other hand, the Vue, designed with the U.S. in mind, has hardly caught fire over there as an Opel.

But the New Opel Insignia, which will be the next Aura (although those plans may be changing according to recent reports), must be the best chance yet. After all, the current Aura proves this size and package of car are right for the times, and the new one -- sampled here as the Opel Insignia variant -- is a far better car to drive and more of a looker, too.

In Saturn guise, it'll start life with a 2.4L four and a V-6, but shortly after it will receive the excellent 2.0L turbo we tested. It kicks out a willing 220 hp and 258 lb-ft of torque and can be had with either manual or auto transmission, both six-speed. We sampled it as front-drive, but AWD is optional.

The turbo rolls up its sleeves and gets to work around 2000 rpm, and if the noise is just a mite tingly at that point, it does rev smoothly out to 6500. Keeping the tach dial in the boost zone gives you ready access to more than adequate performance, while driving off-boost stretches every gallon. The six-speed manual's shifter has a short if notchy throw.

That's four paragraphs, for the rest, see the full article at http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0807_2009_opel_insignia_first_drive/index.html

OK, here's a picture to get you even more interested:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/sedans/10014683/112_0807_08z+2009_opel_insignia+front_three_quarters_view.jpg