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7/18 Election Model: Why election sites giving McCain > 3% win prob are MATHEMATICALLY INCORRECT

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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:09 AM
Original message
7/18 Election Model: Why election sites giving McCain > 3% win prob are MATHEMATICALLY INCORRECT
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 01:08 AM by tiptoe




2008 ELECTION MODEL
A  Monte Carlo  Electoral  Vote  Simulation



Updated: July 18

  • ?click">Chart   State Poll Aggregate + Projection Trend
  • ?click">Chart   National 5-Poll Moving Average Projection
  • ?click">Chart   State vs. National: Vote Share Projection Trends
  • ?click">Chart   Battleground-State Polls + Projections
  • ?click">Chart   Battleground-State Win Probability
  • ?click">Chart   Electoral Vote + Win Probability Trend
  • ?click">Chart   Electoral Vote + Projected Vote Share Trend
  • ?click">Chart   Undecided Voter Allocation + Win Probability
  • ?click">Chart   Monte Carlo Electoral Vote Simulation Trials
  • ?click">Chart   Obama Electoral Vote Simulation Frequency
     2008 Election Model Fraud Analyzer 
  • Uncounted  &  Switched Votes
  • ?click">Chart   Effect on Obama Projected Vote Share
  • ?click">Chart   Effect on Obama Projected Electoral Vote
  •  
     
    This
    State
    National
    State
    National
    Monte Carlo
    Simulation

    Update
    Poll
    5-Poll
    2-party
    2-party
    Expected

    7/18/2008
    Aggregate
    Average
    Projection
    Projection
    ELECTORAL VOTE

    Obama
    McCain
     45.59 (53.73) 
     39.26 (46.27) 
     47.60 (52.89) 
     42.40 (47.11) 
    54.68
    45.32
    53.60
    46.40
    404
    134


        
    15-Poll
    Last Poll
    Sample
     
    NATIONAL MODEL
     
    5-Poll Mov Avg
     
    5-Poll MA, 2-party Proj
    Poll MA
    Poll

    Trend
                          
    Rasmussen
    Gallup
    ABC/WP
    NYT/CBS
    Quinnipiac

    Newsweek
    Pew Resrch
    CNN
    DemCorp
    Time

    Bloomberg
    USA Today
    Newsweek
    FOX
    Rasmussen
    Date
            
    7/17
    7/16
    7/14
    7/13
    7/13

    7/10
    6/29
    6/29
    6/25
    6/25

    6/23
    6/19
    6/19
    6/18
    6/18
    Size
                  
    3000 LV
    2652 RV
    --
    1796 RV
    1725 LV

    1037 RV
    1574 RV
    906 RV
    2000 RV
    805 RV

    1115 RV
    1310 LV
    896 RV
    900 RV
    3000 LV
     
    Obama
            
    47
    46
    50
    45
    50

    44
    48
    50
    49
    47

    49
    50
    51
    45
    48
    McCain
            
    46
    44
    42
    39
    41

    41
    40
    45
    45
    43

    37
    44
    36
    41
    45
    Spread
            
    1
    2
    6
    8
    9

    3
    8
    5
    4
    4

    12
    6
    15
    4
    3
     
    Obama
            
    47.6
    47.0
    47.4
    48.4
    48.2

    47.6
    48.6
    49.0
    49.2
    48.4

    48.6
    48.2
    48.0
    46.6
    47.0
    McCain
            
    42.4
    41.4
    40.6
    41.8
    42.4

    42.8
    42.0
    42.8
    41.0
    40.2

    40.6
    41.6
    41.8
    42.6
    42.8
     
    Obama
            
    53.60
    53.96
    54.60
    54.28
    53.84

    53.36
    54.24
    53.92
    55.08
    55.24

    55.08
    54.32
    54.12
    53.08
    53.12
    McCain
            
    46.40
    46.04
    45.40
    45.72
    46.16

    46.64
    45.76
    46.08
    44.92
    44.76

    44.92
    45.68
    45.88
    46.92
    46.88
    Diff
            
    7.2
    7.9
    9.2
    8.6
    7.7

    6.7
    8.5
    7.8
    10.2
    10.5

    10.2
    8.6
    8.2
    6.2
    6.2
    Win Prob
              
    99.996
    99.998
    na
    99.986
    99.929

    98.477
    99.962
    99.086
    100
    99.853

    99.965
    99.912
    99.318
    96.77
    99.968
    MoE
              
    1.79%
    1.90%
    na
    2.31%
    2.36%

    3.04%
    2.47%
    3.26%
    2.19%
    3.45%

    2.93%
    2.71%
    3.27%
    3.27%
    1.79%
     

     

    There is a famous street card game scam called Three-Card Monte in which the victim, or mark, is tricked into betting a sum of money if he can find the money card among three face-down cards. Election Fraud is analagous to Three-Card Monte. What you see is not what you get. In this game the voter is the mark. Election models which project the True Vote are doomed to fail in a Three-Card Monte election.

    Based on the latest state polls, projections and win probabilities, the 5000–election trial Monte Carlo simulation indicates that Obama will win 53.73% of the two-party vote and 370 electoral votes —if the election is fraud-free and held today. But assuming the base case scenario that he will win 60% of the undecided votes (UVA), he will have 54.68% with 404 electoral votes. The national average 5-poll projection is that he will win 53.60% (60% UVA).

    Since Obama won all 5000 Monte Carlo (MC) simulation election trials, his electoral vote win probability is 100%. The win probability is calculated for both the electoral and popular vote — and they match which confirms the methods and makes sense intuitively. The calculations are based on a Monte Carlo simulation (electoral vote) and normal distribution (popular vote). “What are you smoking? Nothing is 100%”. Well, based on the results of 5000 MC simulation trials, the win probability is 100%. The methods are described below.

    There are a number of election forecasting sites on the Internet which give McCain more than a 3% chance of winning the election. This is a mathematical impossibility (see below) since Obama is leading by over 6% nationally. Whether or not the inflated McCain win probabilities are due to mathematical error, the sites are providing potential cover for another stolen election. A popular vote margin of 6% will result in an electoral vote win 99.98% of the time.

    Some sites base their probabilities on the election voting markets which currently give McCain a 30-40% chance of winning. Unless the market participants have foreknowledge that the election will once again be stolen, the inflated McCain prices (probabilities) only reflect the “horserace” propaganda that is fed to them by the media.

    Fifty state polls (zogby.com and electoral-vote.com) and 5 national polls (realclearpolitics.com) confirm that Obama is leading by 54–46% with an increasing trend over the past six weeks. The Law of Large Numbers (LLN) is in effect. The more polls, the more samples, the greater the confidence that the sample mean is close to the True Mean. So if we accept what the LLN is telling us: with 54% of the two-party vote, Obama is an absolute 100% lock to win the Electoral Vote.

    Monte Carlo determined this relationship between Obama’s aggregate average 2-party vote share and the electoral vote:

    Vote share
    50.0
    50.5
    51.0
    51.5
    52.0
    52.5
    53.0
    53.7
    54.7

    Avg Elect vote
    263
    276
    289
    301
    315
    329
    346
    370
    404

    Win Probability
    39.1
    64.5
    83.8
    94.9
    99.8
    99.9
    99.98
    100.0
    100.0


    This is why Monte Carlo (MC) simulation method is used to calculate the electoral vote win probability and expected (mean) EV:
    1. Unlike academic election models which attempt to forecast the popular vote based on a regression analysis using economic and political time-series months in advance of the election, MC determines the probability of winning the electoral vote based on the latest polls right up to the election,
    2. MC uses individual state win probabilities, as opposed to the simple win-no win scenarios in media-created election models,
    3. MC is a powerful tool for analyzing complicated systems when analytical solutions are impractical or impossible.

    2008 Election Calculator
    This model projects that Obama will win the True Vote by 71 – 59m (54 - 45%).
    Basic input consists of the 2004 recorded vote, mortality, uncounted votes and 2004 voter turnout in 2008.
    The True Vote is calculated using slightly modified 2004 NEP vote shares.

           Voted     Est 2008             Calculated True Vote
    in 2004 Turnout Votes Mix Obama McCain Other

    DNV - 17.2 13.1% 59% 40% 1%
    Kerry 95% 60.5 46.2% 89% 10% 1%
    Bush 95% 51.6 39.4% 11% 88% 1%
    Other 95% 1.6 1.2% 70% 11% 19%

    Total 113.7 130.9 100% 54.1% 44.7% 1.2%
    130.9 70.8 58.5 1.6
    These graphs display the effects of uncounted and switched votes on Obama's projected EV and 2-party vote share.
    ?click">Effect of uncounted and switched votes on the projected vote share
    ?click">Effect of uncounted and switched votes on the electoral vote


    THE 2008 ELECTION MODEL

    This
    State
    National
    State
    National
    Monte Carlo
    Simulation

    Update
    Poll
    5-poll
    2-party
    2-party
    Expected

    7/18/2008
    Wtd Avg
    Average
    Projection
    Projection
    Electoral Vote

    Obama
    45.59
    47.60
    54.68
    53.60
    404

    McCain
    39.26
    42.40
    45.32
    46.40
    134

     

    Sensitivity Analysis

    Undecided voter allocation scenario

    Obama
    50%
    55%
    60%
    65%
    70%

     

    State model: Projected aggregate vote share

    Obama
    53.17
    53.73
    54.68
    55.44
    56.20

    McCain
    46.83
    46.27
    45.32
    44.56
    43.80

     

    MoE Probability Obama wins popular vote (NORMDIST)

    2.00%
    99.90
    99.99
    100.0
    100.0
    100.0

    3.00%
    98.07
    99.26
    99.89
    99.98
    100.0

     

    Monte Carlo Probability Obama wins electoral vote

    Trial Wins
    5000
    5000
    5000
    5000
    5000

    Probability
    100
    100
    100
    100
    100

     

    Obama Electoral Vote

    Average
    351
    370
    404
    429
    450

    Median
    348
    369
    404
    431
    452

     
     
     
     
     
     

    Maximum
    441
    456
    477
    491
    498

    Minimum
    282
    287
    329
    344
    371

     

    95% Confidence Limits

    Upper
    398
    420
    456
    478
    491

    Lower
    304
    321
    352
    381
    408

     

    States Won
    30
    32
    33
    38
    39


    2008 POLLING ANALYSIS AND PROJECTIONS
    National Model  — see atop
    State Model
    State Polls Pre-Undecided Voter Allocation
    EV:
    Projection
    Win
    Trial
    Flip to

    Total

    AL
    AK
    AZ
    AR
    CA

    CO
    CT
    DC
    DE
    FL

    GA
    HI
    ID
    IL
    IN

    IA
    KS
    KY
    LA
    ME

    MD
    MA
    MI
    MN
    MS

    MO
    MT
    NE
    NV
    NH

    NJ
    NM
    NY
    NC
    ND

    OH
    OK
    OR
    PA
    RI

    SC
    SD
    TN
    TX
    UT

    VT
    VA
    WA
    WV
    WI
    WY
    EV
    538

    9
    3
    10
    6
    55

    9
    7
    3
    3
    27

    15
    4
    4
    21
    11

    7
    6
    8
    9
    4

    10
    12
    17
    10
    6

    11
    3
    5
    5
    4

    15
    5
    31
    15
    3

    20
    7
    7
    21
    4

    8
    3
    11
    34
    5

    3
    13
    11
    5
    10
    3
    Obama
    45.6 %

    36
    41
    42
    37
    54

    40
    48
    90
    50
    39

    38
    61
    39
    50
    39

    51
    32
    39
    37
    46

    54
    54
    50
    54
    44

    48
    48
    36
    42
    40

    47
    49
    50
    44
    43

    43
    37
    46
    46
    55

    42
    43
    36
    39
    31

    63
    44
    53
    37
    50
    40
    McCain
    39.3 %

    50
    45
    39
    47
    30

    38
    32
    9
    41
    43

    44
    31
    52
    37
    40

    41
    52
    44
    56
    30

    30
    29
    42
    37
    50

    45
    43
    52
    40
    37

    36
    33
    37
    48
    43

    38
    42
    37
    36
    31

    41
    47
    41
    42
    55

    29
    39
    41
    45
    39
    53
    Diff
    6.3 %

    (14)
    (4)
    3
    (10)
    24

    2
    16
    81
    9
    (4)

    (6)
    30
    (13)
    13
    (1)

    10
    (20)
    (5)
    (19)
    16

    24
    25
    8
    17
    (6)

    3
    5
    (16)
    2
    3

    11
    16
    13
    (4)
    0

    5
    (5)
    9
    10
    24

    1
    (4)
    (5)
    (3)
    (24)

    34
    5
    12
    (8)
    11
    (13)
    BO EV
    343



    10

    55

    9
    7
    3
    3



    4

    21


    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10


    11
    3

    5
    4

    15
    5
    31



    20

    7
    21
    4

    8





    3
    13
    11

    10

    Diff < 8%
    248


    3
    10



    9



    27

    15



    11



    8





    17

    6

    11
    3

    5
    4




    15
    3

    20
    7




    8
    3
    11
    34



    13

    5


    Obama
    54.7 %

    44.4
    49.4
    53.4
    46.6
    63.6

    53.2
    60
    55.4
    90.6
    49.8

    48.8
    65.8
    44.4
    57.8
    51.6

    55.8
    41.6
    49.2
    41.2
    60.4

    63.6
    64.2
    54.8
    59.4
    47.6

    52.2
    53.4
    43.2
    52.8
    53.8

    57.2
    59.8
    57.8
    48.8
    51.4

    54.4
    49.6
    56.2
    56.8
    63.4

    52.2
    49
    49.8
    50.4
    39.4

    67.8
    54.2
    56.6
    47.8
    56.6
    44.2
    Prob
    100.0 %

    0.3
    38.2
    95.5
    4.5
    100.0

    94.5
    100.0
    99.7
    100.0
    46.0

    27.4
    100.0
    0.3
    100.0
    78.8

    99.8
    0.0
    34.5
    0.0
    100.0

    100.0
    100.0
    99.2
    100.0
    11.5

    86.4
    95.5
    0.0
    91.9
    97.1

    100.0
    100.0
    100.0
    27.4
    75.8

    98.6
    42.1
    99.9
    100.0
    100.0

    86.4
    30.9
    46.0
    57.9
    0.0

    100.0
    98.2
    100.0
    13.6
    100.0
    0.2
    EV
    404



    10

    55

    9
    7
    3
    3



    4

    21
    11

    7



    4

    10
    12
    17
    10


    11
    3

    5
    4

    15
    5
    31

    3

    20

    7
    21
    4

    8


    34


    3
    13
    11

    10

    Obama
    13



    Obama



    Obama









    Obama

    Obama











    Obama
    Obama

    Obama



    Obama


    Obama

    Obama





    Obama


    Obama



    Obama





     

     

    2008 Election Fraud Scenario Analysis

    But there’s a catch: It’s called Election Fraud.

    The Democratic True Vote is always greater than the Recorded Vote.
    A massive voter registration and GOTV effort is required to overcome the fraud.
    • Approximately 3–4 million Obama votes will be uncounted.

    Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes conventional wisdom. But that’s to be expected. Although the media commissioned the exit polls which indicated that Kerry won by 5%, they don’t question the mathematically impossible Final Exit Poll which was forced to match a corrupt vote count. Bush won the corrupt Recorded vote but lost the True vote. Past is Prologue. It would be foolish to assume a fraud-free election.

    That’s why the Election Model now includes a fraud scenario analysis. Even assuming that 4% of total votes cast will be uncounted, McCain would need at least 8% of Obama’s votes switched to his column to win. In 2004 approximately 3% of all votes cast were uncounted. Bush stole 8.0% of Kerry’s votes (analysis below) to obtain his 3.0 million vote “mandate”.

    Zogby was correct in 2004 when he projected that Kerry would win. Unfortunately, Bush won a rigged Recorded vote. Kerry won the True vote, but like Three-Card Monte, what you see is not what you get. Election forecasters and complicit media pundits who projected a Bush win avoid discussing the overwhelming evidence that the election was stolen. On the contrary, a complicit media relentlessly promotes the fictional propaganda that Bush won TWO elections.

    The Election Model has been updated to include two key fraud variable factors: uncounted votes (net of votes padded) and switched votes. Historical evidence shows that over 75% of uncounted ballots are found in heavily Democratic minority precincts. These critical factors are never included in election forecasting models which permeate the media and the internet. In fact, there is no mention of fraud from professional pollsters, political forecasters in academia, media pundits or liberal bloggers on their web sites. But it’s understandable. No one wants to bite the hand that feeds them. Why should any of these interested parties discuss fraud when Democratic politicians won’t? Unlike impeachment, the dirty little secret of election fraud has always been off the table in Congress.

    The base case projection assumes zero fraud. But if 4% of total votes cast are uncounted, McCain would need at least 8% of Obama’s votes switched to his column in order to win. This could be done by rigging strategically selected touch screens, optical scanners, punched cards, levers and central tabulators. Is it just a coincidence that Karl Rove is advising McCain?

    The Election Model calculates projected vote shares and the electoral vote over a range of 36 uncounted and switched vote scenarios. The scenarios range from the True Vote (zero votes uncounted, zero switched) to Massive Fraud (5%, 10%). For simplicity, the model assumes that the scenarios apply equally in each state — an admittedly an unrealistic assumption. But it provides a good approximation to the resulting EV and popular vote.

    Calculation of Win Probabilities
    In each election trial, the winner is determined by a random process based on state win probabilities which are in turn determined by the latest poll. For example, assume that Obama is projected to win Florida’s 27 EV with 51% of the popular vote (based on the latest polls). Many electoral vote calculators would simply add the 27 EV to the Obama column to determine his projected electoral vote total or just say it’s the too-close to call. But that is an over-simplification; Based on his projected share, Obama has a 69% probability of winning Florida; McCain has a 31% chance%.

    Obama’s 69% FL win probability is compared to a random number (RND) between zero and one. If the RND is less or equal to 0.69, Obama wins Florida’s 27 EV; otherwise McCain wins. In each election trial, the RND/ win probability comparison is applied to each state. The winner of the election trial is the candidate who has at least 270 EV. The electoral vote win probability is simply the number of winning election trials divided by 5000. Since Obama won all 5000 election trials, his win probability is 100%.

    The Popular Vote win probability (for a state and the national aggregate) is calculated using the Excel normal distribution function. Obama’s popular vote win probability closely matches his Monte Carlo EV win probability. Obama’s projected two-party vote share and the polling MoE/1.96 (Stdev) are the only required inputs to the function.
    • Obama’s projected base case (60% UVA) vote share is V=54.68%.
      Assuming a 2.0% polling MoE, his popular vote win probability is 100%.
      The Excel function is: = NORMDIST (54.68%, 50%, 2.0%/1.96, true)
      Assuming a 3.0% MoE, the probability is 99.89%

    • For the 50% UVA projection scenario, V=53.17%; the win probability is 99.90% (2.0% MoE).
      Assuming a 3.0% MoE, the probability is 98.07%

    Obama’s win probability in each state is also calculated by the normal distribution.
    The probabilities are based on 4% margin of error and the projected state vote share.
    For example, assume that Obama is tied with McCain in the latest polls at 45%.
    With 60% of the undecided vote, he is projected to win the 2-party vote by 51-49%.
    His probability of winning is 69%: =NORMDIST (.51, .50, .04/1.96, TRUE)

    The National Model calculates the moving average projection based on 5 national polls. The base case 60% UVA scenario is assumed. The model provides a further confirmation of the State Model probabilities. The normal distribution function calculates win probabilities for all the moving averages using the MoE of the latest poll.
    • Rasmussen poll (3000 sample) has a 1.79% MoE. Based on the 53.60% moving average projection, there is a 99.996% probability that Obama will win the popular vote: 99.996% = NORMDIST (53.60%, 50%, 1.91% /1.96, true)
    In a true democracy, this would be a slam dunk for Obama:
    McCain supports the most unpopular president in history with 25% approval.

    2004 Election Model Review
    On Election Day 2004, Bush had a 48% approval rating.
    He won the official vote by 62 – 59m (122.3m recorded). But according to the 2004 Census, 125.7m votes were cast. Therefore, approximately 3.4m votes (2.74%) were uncounted. The majority (70–80%) of uncounted ballots are in Democratic minority precincts. Including uncounted votes, the adjusted count becomes 62.9–61.5m.
    The model produced a startling confirmation of the state and national models.
    • In the base case scenario, Kerry was assumed to win 75% of the undecided vote.
    • The Monte Carlo simulation determined that he would win 337 electoral votes.
    • Both models projected Kerry the winner with 51.8% of the two-party vote.
      The final 5 national poll average projection was 51.8%.
      The final 18 national poll average projection was 51.6%.
    The Election Model projections were based on state and national Pre-election polls.
    • Kerry’s projected vote share was within 2.0% of his exit poll share in 23 states.
    • The 12:22am Preliminary National Exit Poll indicated that Kerry won by 5148%.
    Exit Pollsters Edison-Mitofsky released their 2004 Evaluation report in Jan. 2005.
    • E-M discussed polling methodology and provided summary statistics by state, region and voting method.
    • Within Precinct Error (WPE) is the average difference between unadjusted exit poll and recorded vote count margins.
      It is more appropriate to call it Within Precinct Discrepancy (WPD).
      Kerry won the unadjusted (WPD) aggregate state exit poll by 52.047.0% (average of three measures).
                    Unadjusted Exit Poll             Recorded Vote Count
      EV Kerry Bush Margin KEV Kerry Bush Margin KEV WPE/WPD
      WtdAv TOTAL 51.95 47.05 4.91 337 48.27 50.73 (2.46) 251 7.37 %
    • exceeded 6% in 25 states for Bush and none for Kerry (equivalent to exceeding a 3% MoE)
    • exceeded 4% in 34 states for Bush and just 2 for Kerry.
    • was less than 2% in 8 heavily Republican states (AR, ID, IN, KS, KY, MT, OK and TN).
    • was less than 2% in just 1 Democratic state (OR), the only state which votes 100% by paper ballot.
    The 1:25pm FINAL National Exit Poll indicated that Kerry lost by 4851%.
    • All FINAL National Exit Polls are 'forced' to match the Recorded Vote.
    • The 'forcing' of the 2004 Exit Poll numbers resulted in IMPOSSIBLE demographics.

      State and national Pre-election and Exit Polls were wrong, or the Recorded Vote was fraudulent.

    • The national pre-election RV polls were closer to the True Vote than likely voter LV polls.
    • The LV polls, after adjustments, matched the RVs — and the unadjusted exit polls.
     

    Other links:
    2004 Election Model Summary, Polling Analysis, National & State Model tables
    Confirmation of A Kerry Landslide
    Election Fraud Analytics and Response to the TruthIsAll FAQ

    HAVA Look:  A Simple, Verifiable, Open Source, Paper Ballot Vote-Recording & Counting System

    Excel Models available for download:
    The Election Calculator: 1988-2004
    2004 Interactive Simulation Model
    A Polling Simulation Model
    2000-2004 County Vote Database

     


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    babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:19 AM
    Response to Original message
    1. I can't even share how important you are. Another 'thank you' from me! nt
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    Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 12:40 AM
    Response to Original message
    2. Are you the creator of this post, tiptoe?
    I'm not sure if TruthIsAll is a different person.

    Anyway, great stuff! Recommended.

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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:01 AM
    Response to Reply #2
    3. yep.
    I'm to blame for the HTML, TIA gets credit for the substance.

    No, TIA and I are not the same.

    BTW, how does the State MOdel Table look? Are any of the columns at the right wrapping, ot does everything appear OK?

    thanks in advance for

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    depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:14 AM
    Response to Original message
    4. There were some fancy models making similar claims in 2004
    They didn't work out so well....

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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 01:36 AM
    Response to Reply #4
    5. "didn't work out so well" based on the election outcome? That'd be a poor criterion, if the outcome
    Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 01:49 AM by tiptoe
    was based on election fraud, no?

    If you don't believe the election was fraudulently "won" by Bush, then your feeling about those "fancy models" may be understandable.

    John Zogby projected Kerry to win by 3% at last possible minute, although pollingreport.com didn't update it's projections to include Zogby's final projection.




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    depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:11 AM
    Response to Reply #5
    6. The models were flawed
    GIGO -they relied on invalid and unreliable data (among other things, cheap media polls). And this year, the polling data has proven even less valid and reliable than in 2004.

    Fraud aside, my recollection is that based on the projections at various times, the election shouldn't have been close enough to steal.
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:25 AM
    Response to Reply #6
    7. Do you recall any specific models?
    Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 02:32 AM by tiptoe
    BTW, Kerry had momentum going into election day, based on the Final 18 National polls. Check out the final right-hand column of the bottom National Model table labeled "Diff".

    Kerry was expanding his lead and "pulling away", likely as Undecided voters moved to the challenger.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=466081&mesg_id=505603

    and yet...he "lost"?
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    depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:56 AM
    Response to Reply #7
    8. The final model's archived here:
    http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/

    I'm assuming that the various projections made throughout the election season used the same or substantially similar methodologies.
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 06:03 AM
    Response to Reply #8
    9. "DENYING THAT 2004 WAS STOLEN IS LIKE DENYING GLOBAL WARMING..."
     
    Our good friend was so right and it was only 11:07PM election night. He knew what we all know now: the sucker was stolen. No way to put "lipstick on this pig." Stolen, outright. What else would you expect from people who: stole it in 2000, who lied us into war; trashed the environment when the world knew we face an eco catastrophe; who set up "TWA" (Torture World Airways); tapped every device in America, violating our privacy constantly; created a cynical ploy to steal future elections called "the Help America Vote Act" (renamed the Republican "Help yourself act"). Oh, but we're supposed to be prudent and not say the words "never to be spoken"...STOLEN ELECTION.

    I'm happy to say it. Like many of you, I miss our most precise and determined warrior, TruthIsAll. I have no updates but continue to hope...

    Once, I asked TIA why he did all this. He said, "I'd just like to vote and know my vote was counted and that others could do the same. Plus, I hate Bush."

    Here's the masterpiece on election night...the message that started the election fraud movement, right here on DU.
    TruthIsAll (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-04-04 11:07 PM
    Original message

    To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe...

    To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe:

    1- That the exit polls were WRONG...

    2- That Zogby's 5pm election day calls for Kerry winning OH, FL were WRONG. He was exactly RIGHT in his 2000 final poll.

    3- That Harris last minute polling for Kerry was WRONG. He was exactly RIGHT in his 2000 final poll.

    4- The Incumbent Rule I (that undecideds break for the challenger)was WRONG.

    5- The 50% Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent doesn't do better than his final polling)

    6- The Approval Rating Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent with less than 50% approval will most likely lose the election)

    7- That Greg Palast was WRONG when he said that even before the election, 1 million votes were stolen from Kerry. He was the ONLY reporter to break the fact that 90,000 Florida blacks were disnfranchised in 2000.

    8- That it was just a COINCIDENCE that the exit polls were CORRECT where there WAS a PAPER TRAIL and INCORRECT (+5% for Bush) where there was NO PAPER TRAIL.

    9- That the surge in new young voters had NO positive effect for Kerry.

    10- That Bush BEAT 99-1 mathematical odds in winning the election.

    11- That Kerry did WORSE than Gore agains an opponent who LOST the support of SCORES of Republican newspapers who were for Bush in 2000.

    12- That Bush did better than an 18 national poll average which showed him tied with Kerry at 47. In other words, Bush got 80% of the undecided vote to end up with a 51-48 majority - when ALL professional pollsters agree that the undecided vote ALWAYS goes to the challenger.

    13- That Voting machines made by Republicans with no paper trail and with no software publication, which have been proven by thousands of computer scientists to be vulnerable in scores of ways, were NOT tampered with in this electionh



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    dems_rightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:47 AM
    Response to Original message
    10. How long until the 0% chance
    Turns to like negative 70%?
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 02:49 PM
    Response to Reply #10
    12. maybe soon. re Phil Gramm -- recently-resigned McCain advisor/connecting the blots
    Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 02:59 PM by tiptoe
    Phil Gramm's UBS Bank BUSTED in $18B Major International Tax Scandal --- Where's our MSM???

    It sounds like a spy novel but it’s true according to the IRS and others investigating the practice of illegally hiding funds in offshore accounts. This involves all kinds of misdeeds and heads will role not only at UBS but at other institutions who did the same thing. As Roni rightly points out, the individual taxpayers, American citizens, who hid their money with this bank will also be in hot water and will likely face jail time or fines. It’s an unbelievable story...


    =========
    McCain Economic Adviser Phil "Nation of Whiners" Gramm and Wife Wendy Brought Us Enron

    Wendy Gramm, Phil Gramm, Ken Lay, Sch*zenegger, Bill Clinton, John McCain -- Connecting the blots



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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 06:26 AM
    Response to Reply #10
    15. TEXT of KO, June 18...showing McCain -- before & after 2006 -- a tool of special interests:
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    Riddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:58 AM
    Response to Original message
    11. Interesting, but is there anybody of sane mind that really expects this election to be "fraud free"?
    They've stolen the last 2 presidential elections and unknown state and local elections right in front of us when we knew it was GOING to happen, knew is WAS happening, and knew that it HAD happened. What makes anyone think this "election" will be any different?
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    bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 12:37 AM
    Response to Original message
    13. My elbow ached, and it turned out it was from leaning on it
    while trying to figure out, after the election of 2004, where the hell Bush got all those votes.

    The documentation that he could not, in fact, have gotten them is vastly more extensive than the work done to establish the mathematical possibility (let alone probability) that he actually won the election.

    :thumbsup:
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    Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-08 01:59 AM
    Response to Original message
    14. Is this trying to predict the election in Novemebr using polls from July?
    What kind of nonsense is that?

    Millions of voters can change their minds three times between now and November.

    Other elections have shown 20 point swings from July polls to the final November elections.

    Who knows what's going to happen between now and then?

    And as an aside, TruthIsAll lost all credibility with me with his analysis after the election.

    TIA was trying to show how Kerry was leading all the pre-election polls, and then supposedly lost. On his chart he listed the PEW poll showing Kerry winning the final poll. The problem was that I had just been looking at the final PEW poll because it hit the actual result with Bush winning and with Bush and Kerry's percentages exactly on the nose. The PEW poll was the champion in 2004 for getting it just right.

    Anyway, so I asked TIA what the heck he was doing using the PEW poll as an example of Kerry winning while it actually showed Bush winning by the exact mnumbers Bush won by.

    His answer was that for the PEW poll he was using registered voters which showed Kerry ahead while likely voters showed the actual Bush ahead result. In other polls he used likely voters -- whichever suited his conclusion better.

    Obviously, that was the last time I paid any attention to TIA.
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    tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-08 01:21 AM
    Response to Reply #14
    16. No. Refer to the 2nd paragraph:
    TIA describes his Monte Carlo (MC) approach in paragraph 8, contrasting it with academic and media-created models and commenting on its advantage. His approach is far afield from what you might only to be presuming, since your question implies you haven't keyed into this phrase of his 2nd paragraph: "—if the election is fraud-free and held today." In addition to being the only election model to incorporate a fraud scenario analysis (taboo subject amongst "professional pollsters, political forecasters in academia, media pundits or liberal bloggers"), TIA's Monte Carlo Electoral Vote Simulation model is doing something completely different from 'forecasting months in advance using polls in July' (which, indeed, would be non-sensical):

    This is why Monte Carlo (MC) simulation method is used to calculate the electoral vote win probability and expected (mean) EV:
    1. Unlike academic election models which attempt to forecast the popular vote based on a regression analysis using economic and political time-series months in advance of the election, MC determines the probability of winning the electoral vote based on the latest polls right up to the election,
    2. MC uses individual state win probabilities, as opposed to the simple win-no win scenarios in media-created election models,
    3. MC is a powerful tool for analyzing complicated systems when analytical solutions are impractical or impossible.

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