Photograph a Cop, Go to Jail

[babylonsister]

Photograph a Cop, Go to Jail
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2008-07-16 16:58.

By Darius Radzius, WJHL

Nearly everyone carries a cell phone and it’s hard to find one without that camera feature. It’s convenient when you want to take that impromptu photo, but a Tri-Cities area man ended up behind bars after snapping a shot of a Johnson County sheriff’s deputy during a traffic stop.

The cell phone photographer says the arrest was intimidation, but the deputy says he feared for his life.

“Here’s a guy who takes me out of the car and arrests me in front of my kids. For what? To take a picture of a police officer?” said Scott Conover.

A Johnson County sheriff’s deputy arrested Scott Conover for unlawful photography.

“He says you took a picture of me. It’s illegal to take a picture of a law enforcement officer,” said Conover.

Conover took a picture of a sheriff’s deputy on the side of the road on a traffic stop. Conover was stunned by the charge.

“This is a public highway,” said Conover.

And it was not a place where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy as Tennessee code states. The deputy also asked Conover to delete the picture three times.

“He said if you don’t give it to me, you’re going to jail,” said Conover.

more...

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/34810

[Trillo]

1. Totally unacceptable.

Fairness dictates that if the government can have cameras in public places, then so should any other citizen have the right to have cameras in "public places" and further, to use them.

How infuriating!

[Aviation Pro]

2. This nation has reached a level of paranoia....

...that is beyond belief. Hey, buddy-cop, if you're so scared for your life give up the gun and badge and go open up a sports bar or some such shit that doesn't tax your poor widdle brain.

[Truth4Justice]

172. Cops wont do that. they want the authority to push people around and play "games".

[MadHound]

3. As a public official, the cop has no expectation of privacy while on duty

Sorry, but it is(or at least used to be) entirely legal to photograph a public official going about their job, and this includes cops.

This is simply another sign of the increasing police state. Too many cops have gotten burned by videos like the Rodney King one, and now want to make it illegal to photograph cops in order that they can continue to brutalize people in secret.

[arcadian]

4. Major civil rights violation.

I'd say that it was a violation of 4th Amendment rights, but recent events show that authority in this country would prefer to use the U.S. Constitution as toilet paper. So I guess it doesn't really matter.

[jobycom]

5. Stupid cop, is all. I like the part where he refused to comment to reporters

because he didn't want to incriminate himself. Translation: "Fuck, I screwed up. Maybe if I hide under a bed it will go away?"

In a month, he'll be harassing other civilians for not ordering fries with their burger.

A cop buddy of mine used to say that cops make up half the stuff they charge you with, and figure out what actual laws were broken after they get you to the station. He used to laugh about a "Hill Street Blues" scene where an overweight man was arrested for sitting on a cop. When the desk sergeant asked what the charge was, the officer thought for a moment, then said "Gravitational Assault."

[derby378]

6. What next? "If you carry a camera, carry a gun?"

I do not relish the point where ordinary law-abiding citizens have to keep cops at gunpoint to prevent arrest for taking pictures and keeping our law enforcement agencies accountable to the people they are supposed to protect and serve.

[fascisthunter]

7. Why? Why is it Illegal???

This was the same in the former U.S.S.R. No photos of any law enforcement.

[margotb822]

34. That's what I wonder

I don't think it's true.

[madeline_con]

116. It isn't, the cop's full of shit. n/t

[EFerrari]

8. The distinction between law enforcement, national security and military

personnel is getting more blurred all the time and this is one of the consequences. How many stories like this one have we read just in the last year?

[tburnsten]

9. That's the ticket!

"3. As a public official, the cop has no expectation of privacy while on duty"

I firmly believe that no public official has any right to privacy as it relates to their official duties, and to a lesser degree they also give up a deal of privacy in their personal life as well. We need to get to know our public and elected officials, and them claiming they have a right to privacy is total bullshit.

[onehandle]

10. Anyone STUPID enough to point ANYTHING at a cop after being pulled over gets what they deserve.

Finger. Camera. Phone. Gun. In the dark they all look the same.

It is the officer's prerogative to make an arrest if he thinks it's called for. Period.

DUers have no clue about the difference between civil rights violations and simply stupid people being stupid.

On edit: Notice that I said Nothing about the photo taking being a crime. What I am talking about is pointing an object at a cop in the dark after being pulled over. Once again for the hard of reading, I said nothing about the Photography.

[LeftCoast]

11. Yes, because the police should be able to lock up citizens for any reason at all

:sarcasm:

[onehandle]

12. I invite you to point your cell phone camera at the next cop you deal with.

Enjoy jail.

[LeftCoast]

14. You show me the law that says I cannot do it

Then tell me it's ok for cops to arrest people for a non-existent crime.

[onehandle]

16. No, really. Point your cell phone camera at a cop.

Better yet. Jump out of a dark alley and do so.

Enjoy the morgue.

[High Plains]

27. Are you serious?

Are you really saying police should be able to arrest people who take their photographs? Really? Why on earth would you say that? What law is being broken? Do tell.

It sounds like what you're really after is being able to arrest people for "disrespect of cop." Is that it?

[onehandle]

28. I didn't say a FUCKING THING about the photography.

Point ANYTHING at a cop. I dare you.

[High Plains]

30. What are you saying now? Cops should be able to shoot you...

...if you point a camera at them? Dude, stop digging.

[LeftCoast]

32. You're creating a law which doesn't exist

There is no law which states that if you point something (or anything) at a cop you can be arrested. If you point something which reasonably looks like a gun, THEN you could be arrested. Otherwise - no go. Cops DO NOT have the arbitrary right to haul in someone because they were pointed at.

Stop giving up your rights to the police. They're your rights only as long as you stand up for them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. If you point something that reasonably looks like a gun,

then you could be shot, before he realizes it is not a gun.

But in broad daylight, pointing what is obviously a camera phone, which the officer KNOWS is a camera phone, should be NO reason for being arrested.

[Hugabear]

120. How does the cop know it's not one of those newfangled gun phones?

I was kidding at first - but lo and behold, it does exist!



So I guess the poster would be fine with the cops blasting away at anyone who points anything at a cop.

[LanternWaste]

55. I've pointed my finger at one. Wagged it under his nose, too.

I've pointed my finger at one. Directly at his face. While I was not-so-gently explaining how he was being rather... insensitive carrying out his duties.

Consequences? he turned red in the face. His partner laughed at him. I drove away.


Dare accepted (post-hoc), dare met, dare gone...


Wow. That was easy.

[onehandle]

68. Good for you.

Now point a shiny object in the dark at a cop after being pulled over.

Enjoy jail. Like the guy in the article.

Wow. That was easy.

[EOTE]

71. Yeah, the guy who's going to make a killing by suing that pig.

Are you defending the actions of the cop or aren't you?

[LanternWaste]

145. Now you appear to be re-qualifying your ever-so-clever dare.

Now you appear to be re-qualifying your ever-so-clever dare. Or, as it is sometimes refered to on DU, "moving the goalposts..."


Gee-- that was even easier.

[madeline_con]

117. This cop in the OP knew it was a cell phone. n/t

[behave]

144. you're trying to carve out an exception for cops is it reasonable to assume

a cop would investigate a civilian's complaint that
another civilian or another cop for that mattter
was taking the complaintant's photograph and then try to stop it?

[Truth4Justice]

165. Dont you know that cops lives are more important then the public they "protect"?

[dionysus]

149. hookay internet tuff guy!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Truth4Justice]

164. How long have you been a police officer?

[arcadian]

38. OKay, who in your family is a cop?

Or are you? Here we go again.:eyes:

I've taken many pictures of cops and I'm not in the morgue or in jail. If I were to end up in jail for taking a picture of a cop, you better believe I would own the municipality in which that false arrest took place when I got done with the lawsuit I slapped on their sorry asses. And that cop would be out of a job.

[onehandle]

41. Nobody. And once again I did not claim that taking the photo was a crime.

Pointing an object at a cop in the dark after being pulled over is moronic.

[EOTE]

45. Arresting them for doing so is far more moronic.

And apparently you're all for that. Congrats buddy, I hope you get what you want.

[ThePowerofWill]

89. Down to the strawman are we not.

You are the only one talking about pointing objects at cops while it's "dark", and you used shiny before up thread. You are teh phail1111!!! you lost when you made up your own argument no one else was even debating.

[dionysus]

152. do you smell bacon in here?

[LeftyMom]

168. I was thinking it was sausage, but I'm vegan, and pig all smells alike to me.

Definitely a swine-ish odor.

[dionysus]

170. ah... chorizo!!!

:hi:

[Truth4Justice]

167. Nah. The cops would lie to the DA and nothing would happen. Cops are "better" then the public.

[Truth4Justice]

163. How long have you been a cop-lover?

[TooBigaTent]

13. So, you support the idea of pigs being able to brutalize with no accountability.

[onehandle]

15. Only people who automatically refer to cops as pigs.

The rest of us get a pass.

[TooBigaTent]

22. If your candidate supports police brutality like you do, we are in worse trouble than ever.

Automatically taking the cops' side is such a repuke characteristic.

FYI, every cop I have ever interacted with has acted like a pig. Rude, brutal, arrogant, self-important. The epitome of a bully. The fact that they have weapons and use them with no conscience or consequences is the only reason more of the shits don't wind up dead every day.

But you go along kissing their ass and supporting them. You probably have one of those "FOP-support" bumper stickers on your car and think it will save you from a ticket.

[conscious evolution]

26. Pigs,aka cops,suck

[razors edge]

86. Pig is too kind.

Jackbooted thug comes to mind first.

[Zhade]

101. YOU SUPPORT POLICE BRUTALITY FOR USING FREEDOM OF SPEECH?

What the FUCK is wrong with you?

[dionysus]

151. watch out... or robocop over here is gonna getcha!!!

;)

[Hugabear]

119. Pig lover.

Way to stick up for police brutality. You must really love *'s new police state.

[awoke_in_2003]

146. Maybe if they didn't act like pigs

people wouldn't call them pigs. Fuck em

[dionysus]

150. are you barney fife? get a load of judge dred over here...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Sinistrous]

17. After considering several replies to your bullshit,

I decided to leave it at that.

Police are thugs and bullies. They need to be brought back under control. However, that will be nearly impossible, in as much as a person has to be a sociopath to want to become a cop in the first place.

[onehandle]

19. "Police are thugs and bullies."

All of them? You must live in a dangerous reality.

[EOTE]

37. Yes, it's called life.

Not all cops are like that, just the bulk of them are. I've gone through so much heartache and pain because of cops who took out all their bullshit highschool rage on me. I guess to you I probably had all that coming to me.

[Gormy Cuss]

82. You're the one who claimed that someone "gets what they deserve" for merely pointing at a cop.

You're the one who lives in a dangerous reality.

[High Plains]

21. What an idiotic post! Taking a photo is not a crime.

Kowtowing to unjustified law enforcement abuses ought to be.

[onehandle]

25. And I didn't say it was a crime.

The point is that when dealing with a cop, you respect them.

I invite you too, to point an object at a cop.

[High Plains]

29. So a cop should be able to arrest you for something that's not a crime?

Wow, I just posted a moment ago that you must have been after "disrespect of cop." Guess I was right. Well, that's just a sad, authoritarian-enabling attitude more befitting of a Good German than a free American.

[Truth4Justice]

169. Cops make up their own laws on the fly these days.Thats the new Amerika for you.

[KitchenWitch]

61. So we should automatically respect cops

but they do not have to automatically respect the citizens?

I see.

Next.

[truebrit71]

72. "when dealing with a cop, you respect them" Oh really? Why?

Respect is EARNED....or is that too basic a lesson for you too....:eyes:

[onehandle]

97. Because if you don't, you might end up in jail.

But feel free to point shiny objects at cops after you've been pulled over at night.

Can you make bail?

[Zhade]

103. So you believe cops have the right to arrest you if you don't respect them.

That's insane.

[onehandle]

109. Not my belief.

But every night bunches of yahoos end up in jail because they mouthed off... or took a photo of a cop at night after being pulled over.

I think there's a story in this thread about just such a case. Near the top.

[truebrit71]

112. Aah yes, the Cartman school of policing....

...:eyes:

[awoke_in_2003]

147. here ya go

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ea7DnYYXPGg&feature=related

[uppityperson]

157. I'm amused how your proposition has changed.

Point anything at a cop to: point shiny objects after you've been pulled over at night.

And, you do realize that the cop in the OP's link knew it was a cell phone capable of taking pictures, don't you? Just checking.

[beevul]

94. No person deserves respect without first earning it.

Respect is EARNED, not assumed.

Any officer can earn it simply by being a decent human being, particularly toward the people that fund his paycheck.

When someone becomes a cop...sure, they get the badge and the gun and the cruiser...and the tazer and the ticketbook and the authority...but respect just doesn't come automatically as part of the package, it comes or not from how they use all those other things.

Any person that takes the "respect me, I'm a cop" attitude, simply because they are a cop - gets a hearty fuck you from me.

And this comes from a person with family and friends in law enforcement.

[Zhade]

102. Keep being a good German, they welcome your slavish devotion.

NT!

[WritersBlock]

33. It might be different if the iPhone actually required being "pointed" at someone in order to take a

picture. But it doesn't. The lens is in the back of the phone, and it's a tiny little hole that doesn't emit a red light or anything even remotely suspicious or threatening. To take a picture with it, you hold it up with the front of the phone facing yourself... as if you were looking at the screen. Nothing threatening about that; any cop who says he was "in fear of his life" for that is looking for a reason to arrest someone. It's as simple as that.

I'd love to know what statute this guy was charged under.

And before you go calling me stupid, I know just a little bit about what I'm talking about here. Oh, and I have an iPhone, too. :)

[onehandle]

35. I have an iPhone too.

As for the "laser light." It could have been a reflection off of the silver edge of the iPhone from one of the two vehicles.

Who knows?

I invite you to hold yours up at a cop in the dark after being pulled over.

[EOTE]

39. What does it matter?

The guy wasn't arrested for pointing something at the cop, he was arrested for taking the picture. Do you or do you not think he should have been arrested? I happen to think the asshole is an authoritarian pig and should lose his job. You apparently think he was doing his duty. Do you think cops should be protected from having their picture taken?

[onehandle]

42. Once again I did not claim that taking the photo was a crime.

Pointing an object at a cop in the dark after being pulled over is moronic.

That deserved arrest.

[LeftCoast]

43. If taking the photo is not a crime, why is ok to arrest the person?

Do you feel it's ok to arrest people for no crime?

[Alexander]

51. Some people, once they dig themselves into a hole, are too proud to admit they messed up.

Like the cop, and the individual you are responding to.

[Ignis]

148. Truer words were never spoken. (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. The state apparently says it is a crime.

[EOTE]

74. Whaaaaa? And where does 'the state' say that it's a crime

to take a picture of an LEO?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

107. The cops an idiot.

A good background check would have probably saved this municipality some headache. I was only trying to point out that it was the cop that argued it was illegal not the poster.

David

[Th1onein]

93. NOOOOO.....the state doesn't "apparently" say it's a crime, Dave.

But, it figures that you would try to make that argument, because you make every argument possible for using tasers on people.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NickB79]

115. Not according to the ACLU, per the article

"The American Civil Liberties Union would not comment on Conover’s case without fully reviewing the allegations, but told us there is no law that prohibits anyone from taking photographs in public areas, even of police. Taking photos is protected by the First Amendment."

I'd be interested to see just how far the judge will throw these charges out the door.

[Tesha]

138. The state will eventually "decline to prosecute" and hope that the defendant...

...goes away quietly.

That's how these "everybody knows the charges are bullshit"
things always work out.

Tesha

[tabasco]

129. If the state said taking a picure of a cop was a crime

then the state hasn't heard of a thing called the Constitution.

[EOTE]

44. So you think the police should have the ability to arrest anyone who points anything at them?

Let's disregard that the man never pointed anything at the pig, er, cop. You think that anyone who points anything at a cop should be arrested? Holy crap, man, you really love yourself some authority. It's a shame that the cop didn't think like you, he could have just told the guy he was being arrested because he had pointed. And by extension apparently you believe it should be illegal to photograph or record any police officer because that obviously requires pointing at the cop. I hope you get just the police state you're looking for.

[Alexander]

49. But the cop knew it was a camera and not a weapon.

He even asked to have the picture deleted.

[onehandle]

77. And I did not address those very true facts.

I also did not address the legality.

Wind up a cop and get arrested. It's really easy.

[Alexander]

83. Those facts mean that in this case, your point has no relevance.

The cop could not have reasonably been in fear for his life, since he knew it was a camera and not a weapon.

Your statement is irrelevant to this discussion.

"Wind up a cop and get arrested. It's really easy."

Now you are changing your criteria. First it was "don't point things at cops", and now it's "don't wind up cops".

So let's address these other very true facts:

-There is no law that states taking a photo of a cop is illegal.

-The man pointed a camera at the officer in question.

-The cop was completely aware that it was a camera.

Hence, the cop was not justified in the slightest in arresting this guy, and made a false arrest.

Right?

[onehandle]

98. "don't point things at cops" are "don't wind up cops" are the same thing.

And I never said it wasn't a false arrest.

[Alexander]

118. So if I see police brutality, and I take a picture with my cell phone, that's wrong to you?

:eyes:

[Zhade]

104. And you, like a good little Pavlovian dog, cheer on such abuses.

Sickening.

[TommyO]

131. First it was taking a picture, then it was pointing something at a cop

now it's winding up a cop.

Which abuses of power won't you agree with?

[dionysus]

153. hookay officer o'malley... wanna ham sandwich?

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

158. He was arrested for taking a picture, not for pointing anything.

[lolly]

62. I don't think he had been pulled over

The article sounds like he took a picture as the cop was pulling someone else over.

Wonder if the cop knew he was doing something he wasn't supposed to at that traffic stop?

The only cops who have reason to fear cameras/pictures are the ones who are violating people's rights--the Rodney King cop, the guy who tasered the UCLA student.

All other cops should welcome any public documentation of their work.

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Be that as it may, that does not address the legality of photographing

an officer in the conduct of his duty.

BTW, who said anything about "in the dark"?

[onehandle]

63. True. And I did not address the legality of "photographing."

Read the article. It was dark.

[KitchenWitch]

57. Let me guess, you are a dirty cop.

[Truth4Justice]

171. Either that or he is a "good German" citizen cop suck-up artist.

[KitchenWitch]

173. Should we buy him a brown shirt?

[Truth4Justice]

174. Yeah, with a yellow stripe down the backside.

[NickB79]

60. I waved to a police officer once as he was directing traffic

By your logic I pointed FIVE fingers at him at once! Oh noes!1! I needs to go to jailz!!11

[onehandle]

66. Was it dark and he had just pulled you over?

Oh noes!1 Your example doesn't applyz!!11

[NickB79]

113. Actually, I did wave to a police officer at night when he had me pulled over

He informed me that I had a tail light out and gave me a fix-it ticket. He was really cool about it though, a genuinely nice person to talk to. I waved and said thank you to him as he walked back to his car, and he waved back.

Oh noes!11! You gotzd pwned!

[uppityperson]

159. Damn it, that cop SHOULD have arrested him/her for pointing something at them!!!!1111

[RaleighNCDUer]

64. There is nothing in the article that says it was dark.

While what you are saying may be valid, it is a strawman argument. The officer KNEW it was a camera. His problem was that the person defied him, and refused to delete the picture.

His "felt he was threatened" is obvious bullshit after the fact, to excuse his bullying.

The only mention of "dark" in the article is as follows:
"When you take a picture in the dark with Conover’s Apple iPhone, there is no flash or any light that comes from the phone that could be mistaken for a laser."

Therefore, if he saw a "laser" he is lying. During daylight, he could easily see it was a phone, At night, in the dark, there is no flash for him to see.

He's just an authoritarian type who will not stand to be defied. THAT was why he arrested the guy.

[onehandle]

67. They obviously mentioned the dark because it was dark.

The iPhone's screen is bright as Hell. Light could have been easily seen and it has a silver rim that can reflect light. Let's say taillights?

But let's say it was broad daylight on the most safe and quiet tree lined street in America.

Do you point an object at a cop after he's pulled you over?

I invite you to do so.

Enjoy jail.

[The Doctor.]

123. The I-phone's screen might be bright, but not when taking pictures.

Then it's only as bright as what you're pointing it at.

Think things through before pulling shit out of your ass.

I invite you to do so.

Enjoy Fail.

[Greyhound]

65. Ever wonder why the rest of the world believes we are a nation of psychotic morons? n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

100. "You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the care of "CARL'S JR!"

[pnwmom]

81. The cop said "you took a picture of me." Not "you pointed a phone at me."

He was arrested because he took a picture, NOT because the cop was fearful for his life. The cop knew perfectly well that the phone was a phone.

[LaurenG]

87. Yes we do and taking a PICTURE of a policeman is PERFECTLY

legal. The policeman needs to lose his job for overstepping the bounds of his job. No amount of you trying to make this OK will work for me. Are you a cop with power/control issues?

[The Doctor.]

92. Wow. Sometimes people take unpopular positions on controversial topics here.

As I did recently on the failure of 'satire' represented by The New Yorkers "Obamas as Terrorists" image.

But then some people just say stupid shit.

What the hell is a cop who can't tell the differenc between a gun and a cell phone in broad daylight doing on the force?

On top of that, what the hell law is anyone violating by taking pictures in public of anything?


You, my friend, need to seriously reconsider your priorities.

[onehandle]

135. It was at night and the driver pointed something at the cop.

I don't know if the cop had the right to arrest him, but winding up a cop in that situation was idiotic.

I'm not defending the cop.

[uppityperson]

160. "I'm not defending the cop." bwahahahahahahaha. DUZY!

[The Doctor.]

175. Yeah, actually... you are.

You're rationalizing his irrational response.

How about we stop putting shitheads in uniform? That sound 'rational'?

[Zhade]

99. "Vere are your papers, citizen? Schnell!"

NT!

[Jim Sagle]

121. Anyone STUPID enough to post such crap on a Democratic site should be shitcanned.

[onehandle]

136. Anyone stupid enough to point something at a cop at night after being pulled over...

I dare you to do the same.

[McCamy Taylor]

128. Were you scared of Cynthia McKinney?

[varkam]

140. So then, let's say that the OP was not about the guy getting arrested, but rather being killed.

You would contend that he deserved to be shot to death?

[Deja Q]

143. No chances. I side with you on this one. Your 'on edit' clarification is what my first thought was

As a photographer, I know the laws.

Knowing policemen, I know what they have to deal with and they're just as human. They may misperceive it, but they are not going to take the time to assume diddley, nor should they have to. Especially with the types of crimes that go on. It's sickening in some ways, but blame the excess amount of maniac criminals (murderers, et al) and how they got there for exacerbating the problems.

[Truth4Justice]

162. Your masters have trained you well, grasshopper.

[Canuckistanian]

18. Unlawful photography?

Can they just pull a law out their asses when they want one?

[Tesha]

125. They can *ALWAY*S arrest you. Whether they can make any charges stick is another story.

If a cop wants, he (sic) can *ALWAYS* arrest you for one
or more of the holy trinity:

o Disobeying the orders of a police officer

o Resisting arrest

o Simple assault (even if it's your nose
assaulting his fist).

Whether they can make these charges stick after the fact
may very well depend on whether or not someone was recording
the scene. It may also depend on your age, your sex, and the
color of your skin.

Tesha

[cloudbase]

20. Big stink over that recently in Houston.

Google "Sean and Erik Ibarra" for the story. The Harris County Sheriff's office paid out big time for that one.

[Blue_Tires]

23. something similar happened to DUer RaginInMiami

he and the group of cops were both on a public sidewalk, iirc

[Yavapai]

24. But it is legal to use surveillance cameras at every turn???

Would this apply to news photographers?

How about those making a documentry?

I would hope that the voters would make the sheriff unemployed at the first opportunity!

Welcome to the police state!










FREEDOM OF SPEECH! (Just watch what you say)

Ice Tea

[onehandle]

31. I suggest a new headline: Point anything at a Cop in the dark, Go to Jail.

And you would deserve it for being an idiot.

[High Plains]

36. Apologize for police abuses and watch your freedoms slip away.

And you would deservce it for being an idiot.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evoman]

50. So does that mean people should be arrested for stupidity?

Uh oh....the cops are coming for you Onehandle.

[Alexander]

52. The cop knew it was a camera and not a weapon.

How many times are you going to defend this abuse of power with the same stock answer?

[Indenturedebtor]

53. No I agree. Cops should be able to do whatever they want and react in any way

they want to anything that could remotely be construed as a threat.

They're out there doing an important service by creating a flat tax for the general public on our roads and highways! My city needs that money to pay for more cops to get more money for more cops! If they get enough money they can form a swat team and start breaking down doors looking for drug money!

I'm with you 120%!!!!111!!11!!

Lets get them some nice new shiny brown shirts to wear while we're at it!

[NickB79]

54. Is it a crime to point ANYTHING at a cop?

What if I held up a ping-pong paddle in front of a cop, in the same manner that one would hold up a cellphone to take a cop's picture? How about all the protesters that hold up protest signs in front of police, in the same manner one holds up a cellphone? What about reporters and citizens videotaping cops during those protests? Is any of that a crime?

First, show me the statutes that say pointing ANYTHING at a cop, in broad daylight nonetheless, is a crime. Secondly, tell me how holding up a cellphone is in any way like pointing a dangerous weapon at a cop. Until you can back up your argument with a bit more logic, this argument is nothing more than bullshit.

[onehandle]

69. I never said it was illegal.

I said it was stupid to point an object at a cop in the dark after being pulled over.

The driver's action was bullshit. He was obviously wanting to get a rise out of the cop.

It worked.

[Alexander]

73. The cop knew it was a camera. Your bullshit isn't working.

[onehandle]

76. I invite you to explain that to the cop who arrests you in the same situation.

I'm sure as you are being bailed out you can be comforted by the logic of your action.

[truebrit71]

78. Arrests you for what crime?

Seeing as how there would be no crime having been committed, the cop will be sure to enjoy his unemployment and the principality will look forward to paying out on yet another case of "arrest by idiot"....

[onehandle]

80. What crime indeed.

I never said a law was broken.

[Alexander]

84. So it's okay for cops to arrest people when no law is broken?

Do you want Big Brother to watch over you?

[Alexander]

85. I'll explain it to the judge and jury, who will let me go and punish the cop for a false arrest.

[Tesha]

126. Well, don't count on that second part. (NT)

[ZombieHorde]

91. Let's see if I got this right....

It seems to me that onehandle is talking about wisdom, and others are talking about civil rights.

onehandle's position: it is unwise to point things at cops in the dark

other's position: people have every right to point a camera at a cop

I believe that both of these statements are true, and do not contradict each other in any way. Unless I am misrepresenting the arguments.

[onehandle]

95. Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! You got it.

Lotta slow learners at DU.

[Tesha]

127. Lotta people who'll give away *OUR* civil liberties, too.

Know anyone like that, ehh?

Tesha

[mokawanis]

124. He said more than that

he said they "get what they deserve", which is absolute bullshit. The cop was pissed off about his pic being taken, not about having some unidentified object pointed at him. That particular cop is just an asshole.

[dionysus]

154. nah, he's just pig-fellating.

[uppityperson]

161. Don't forget this part...

the guy was arrested for taking a picture, NOT for pointing a camera at a cop.

[NickB79]

111. So, the police can arrest people for LEGAL behavior?

:silly:

[truebrit71]

75. Point my finger at a cop at night...go to jail...what fucked up reality do you live in pal?

...FUCK THAT....They work for and should serve US, NOT the other way around...

[Evoman]

48. Don't photograph a cop....when you do that, they think you are trying to capture their souls.

They will arrest you for Grand Theft Spiritual.

Most cops aren't the smartest tools in the shed.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. Not very smart when there are cell phone guns

Link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxIjkBVEtyE

[EOTE]

79. And lip-stick guns too. Should it be illegal to apply lip stick in front of a cop too? NT

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

105. You got a link to the lipstick gun I've never seen that one.

[EOTE]

134. Here's one...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0203/spy.gallery/lipstick.pistol.html

The point is that a gun can be made to look like just about anything. That wouldn't give a cop the right to start arresting people left and right for perceived threats.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. I agree.

My point wasn't that he should have been arrested, it was that it's not wise to point anything at a cop. I don't think it should be illegal to point harmless objects at cops. Thanks for the link.

David

[Vickers]

59. "the deputy says he feared for his life"

:rofl:

Man, that guy must have nightmares all night long.

[ColbertWatcher]

70. OMG! Photographing a cop!

I wonder if the picture is anything like the one at this link????

[ForrestGump]

88. I took pictures of the CHP officer who pulled us over near Palm Springs in the late '80s

Not sure who was driving, and I can't remember now whether we actually got a ticket (the last one I got, incredible given my tendency to be expeditious, was around 1991), but he was incredibly nice. He posed heroically for the photos -- it helped that the dude was a good looking man, in great shape, though in that Golden State it's entirely conceivable that he, too, was Really An Actor -- and they came out perfectly, golden sunlight surrounding the peace officer in a suitably hero-defining glow. Eat your heart out, Erik Estrada.

Can't remember why I wanted to take the pictures: I bet that 'bonding' to help ensure we once again got off with a warning (actually, now that I think about it, I think he did let us go) but there was probably also the confluence of his being very friendly and me feeling that the novelty of being threatened with a ticket was worthy of preserving for posterity. Besides, in those days I was still taking photos everywhere I went in this country.

My experience, and that of people close to me, suggests that California Highway Patrol officers tend to be much nicer than are members of many other police departments, on average. Still, I'm not sure that I'd pull the same thing today. The country has changed markedly since then; even when I first came to the US, during the Reagan years, it was notable how friendly and open people across this country tended to be (this was a fact that had been relayed to me many times by people who'd traveled in the US during the '60s and '70s, too). That's no longer quite as apparent, I believe, and I can be fairly certain that most of this impression is not the result of me growing more familiar with the US and living here for years. The Reagan years may have seen the rise of the Me ME ME culture, and the real beginning of the end as far as declining civility and collective 'intelligence' was concerned, but there was a lag that I think left its worst effects to manifest a decade later.

Now we're smack in the middle of the nadir of US society and cultures (well, I HOPE it's the lowest point) and one of the very obvious signs of the decline of this country is the increasing number of reports of outright fascist-enforcer behavior by police and others given similar authority. Sure, there always was corruption in some police departments, for example, and some were additionally notorious in other ways (like the LAPD in the '70s, with their lethal chokeholds...Legally Assaults People Daily, I think was the acronym's source) but when a police officer feels like he can arrest someone for taking his picture we shoudl know we're not in the proverbial Kansas (or the literal United States) any more.

[petronius]

110. My limited experiences with the CHP suggests that the ones who work in more rural areas

tend to be pretty cool and helpful, but the ones in more urban areas have the same potential for dickishness as any other officer...

Funny story!

[MindPilot]

90. So then by Onehandle's logic, if you point *anything* at a cop

might as well make it a loaded gun. The outcome will be the same regardless of what you point.

[onehandle]

96. Aim a shiny handheld object at a cop at night after you are pulled over.

Let me know how that goes.

[panzerfaust]

130. Read the post

cop: "...It’s illegal to take a picture of a law enforcement officer..."

That is the point ... nothing about "shiny objects"

Had the officer truly "feared for his life" he would have drawn his service weapon and called for backup. He simply was intimidating the guy for taking his picture.

Yeah, at one point in my life I was a radio-dispatcher for a sheriff's department.

Oh also, I myself have been charged with "illegal photography" for taking pictures of the outside of a PUBLIC building.

So, in a sense, the cop is right - it is illegal to do anything that any particular cop might, at that particular moment, not like: That is why we are becoming a police state, where the cops are judge, jury, and - in some instances - executioner.

It is an unconscionable abuse of the police powers that we have granted to officers of the law for them to use them in this fashion: But there is always the temptation for those who enforce the laws to make up their own, and to see themselves as above all law.

That is why this post was important.

[onehandle]

133. I never addressed the legality of the photography.

I'm addressing the stupidity of the driver.

Pull something out and point it at a cop after being pulled over.

I dare you.

[dionysus]

166. the cop knew it wasn't a gun, you are full of it...

[JonLP24]

108. I'm unaware of the law in the county

But I doubt it exists. This sounds unreasonable, find out what happens in court but I can't see the charges sticking at all especially for this reason. I don't know what the law is written over there but I doubt this is a real law and whether it is or not the police officer was out of line. Protect and Serve not hackle civilians.

[madeline_con]

114. Nope, wrong. Call the ACLU.

There is no expectation of privacy when we are outside of our homes. It's the law. the photo was NOT illegal.

[pinniped]

122. I was flirting with death.

:scared:



The St. Francis Hotel is in the background, which is a located about a mile away from the freeway.

The CHP is now patrolling the mean streets of San Francisco in an effort to protect us increase revenue.

[MindPilot]

137. Man that musta been a helluva chase!

The CHP pursued that car for a mile through the city streets and not one SFPD unit showed up to assist. What heroes the CHP must be!!

I haven't seen that in San Diego...yet.

[johnlal]

132. The "Rodney King" law in action. n/t

[benEzra]

139. More "War on Photography" BS...you cannot LEGALLY be forced to delete a photo.

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

The War on Photography:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/06/the_war_on_phot.html

I hope the victim contacted the ACLU. The photographer's treatment was illegal.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

141. Well, The Cop Likely Overreacted, But Mr. Conover Is Still A Moronic Asshole Any Way Ya Look At It.

Hard to have sympathy for jackasses.

http://static.mgnetwork.com/tri/media_path/site_elements/images/documents/lanestatement.pdf

[onehandle]

142. Exactly on both counts. nt

[Name removed]

155. Deleted sub-thread

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