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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:46 AM
Original message
Israel attacking iran.. more sources

Israel's defense minister hinted Thursday that Israel was ready to attack Iran's nuclear program, saying it didn't balk before "when its vital security interests" were at stake...

John Bolton, the former American ambassador to the United Nations, has predicted that Israel could attack Iran after the November presidential election but before George W Bush's successor is sworn in.
Israel has mounted a major long-range military air exercise involving more than 100 F15 and F16 fighters as a rehearsal for a potential strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, American officials have indicated.
Today, on its 60th birthday, Israel remains as much in existential peril as it was in those early months after the U.N. General Assembly approved the partition of Palestine and Arab armies attacked the infant state.

Arguably, it is at even greater risk now than it was then. Very soon now Israel could be engaged in the biggest battle for existence it has ever faced in its not-so-short-any-longer history. And the next U.S. presidentwhether it is Barack Obama or John McCainmay have a bigger crisis on his hands than anything since 9/11. While Israeli officials insist they are sticking to diplomacy, a number of circumstances are aligning to make an Israeli strike on Iran more likely before the end of 2008:
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Lets hope not.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Me too
But since we have psychopaths running the world,I ain't gonna hold my breath on hope.I fear it is only a matter of time before one greedy rich paranoid bully so called "leader"of any country gets bored or freaked and starts a war..Our best solution is to not tolerate psychopaths as leaders. But sadly most people are conditioned to tolerate and even support psychopathic/narcissistic or authoritarian types.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. scary. nt
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LeftyFingerPop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I have a bad feeling.
And I trust my bad feelings.

Shit is fucked up.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Ever heard of all hell breaking loose?

Why the U.S. Won't Attack Iran
By Tom Engelhardt


Let's take a moment to imagine just what some of the responses to any air assault might be. The list of possibilities is nearly endless and many of them would be hard even for the planet's preeminent military power to prevent. They might include, as a start, the mining of the Strait of Hormuz, through which a significant portion of the world's oil passes, as well as other disruptions of shipping in the region. (Don't even think about what would happen to insurance rates for oil tankers!)

In addition, American troops on their mega-bases in Iraq, rather than being a powerful force in any attack -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has already cautioned President Bush that Iraqi territory cannot be used to attack Iran -- would instantly become so many hostages to Iranian actions, including the possible targeting of those bases by missiles. Similarly, U.S. supply lines for those troops, running from Kuwait past the southern oil port of Basra might well become hostages of a different sort, given the outrage that, in Shiite regions of Iraq, would surely follow an attack. Those lines would assumedly not be impossible to disrupt.

Imagine, as well, what possible disruptions of the modest Iraqi oil supply might mean in the chaos of the moment, with Iranian oil already off the market. Then consider what the targeting of even small numbers of Iranian missiles on the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields could do to global oil markets. (It might not even matter whether they actually hit anything.) And that, of course, just scratches the surface of the range of retaliatory possibilities available to Iranian leaders.

Looked at another way, Iran is a weak regional power (which hasn't invaded another country in living memory) that nonetheless retains a remarkable capacity to inflict grievous harm locally, regionally, and globally.

Such a scenario would result in a global oil shock of almost inconceivable proportions. For any American who believes that he or she is experiencing "pain at the pump" right now, just wait until you experience what a true global oil shock would involve.

I hope Engelhardt is right and sane heads will prevail in Washington and Tel Aviv. But given the track record of the gang of robber barons currently controlling the levers of power and maybe even a fervent desire on their part for an excuse to declare martial law, I wouldn't count on it.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. Why don't I believe this? Several reasons
First, it wouldn't be successful. Most of Iran's nuclear research is underground.

Second, this would not be like the 1980 bombing of the nuclear facilities in Iraq, there would be reprisals, which would result in a major war in the region. This war would not end quickly.

Third, the U.S. does not have the resources to deal with it. They are barely able to fight a two front war right now, it would not be successful. In addition, the price of oil would sky rocket, and it would make the Great Depression look like child's play

The logic and what would be accomplished just isn't there.

It won't happen, not because people within Iran, Israel, and the U.S. don't want it to, but because it wouldn't accomplish anything.

It is also not in Iran's interest to strke Isreal for similar reasoning.

The situation is very similar to the cold war period, peaceful co-existence. The only problem today is that leadership isn't what it was during the cold war era, and that is what makes it uncertain

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Excellent points. ITA!
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 05:14 AM by Douglas Carpenter
to carry out a successful military raid that would significantly degrade the Iranian nuclear program or Iranian military capabilities. It absolutely, positively cannot be done...unless they launched an overwhelming nuclear strike and no one is predicting that.

Israel's military capabilities simply do not include enough long range bombers and fighters to attack a country approximately 1000 miles away..that has protected much of its nuclear program and much of their military resources under North Korean style deep-earth shelters with heavily fortified bunkers.

They have that capability ONLY for countries in their near vicinity.

ONLY the United States has those military capabilites. And EVERYONE knows that such an attack by the United States would come at the cost of the destruction of much of the world's oil infrastructure and thus the destruction of the American economy and most of the global economy...
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Lorentz Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. "unless they launched an overwhelming nuclear strike and no one is predicting that."
Untrue -- that's the theory of choice at DU! No one has explained why they think that way, though.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Well said.
Please knock on some wood when you get a chance.

You're correct, I believe.

But juuuuuuust in case. OK?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Would Russia/China allow a strike on Iran? Extermely doubtfull
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here's one more
'On five occasions he was ordered to either falsify his reporting on WMD in the Near East, or not to file his reports at all.' Ex-Agent Says CIA Ignored Iran Facts 01 Jul 2008 A former CIA operative who says he tried to warn the agency about faulty intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs now contends that CIA officials also ignored evidence that Iran had suspended work on a nuclear bomb. The onetime undercover agent, who has been barred by the CIA from using his real name, filed a motion in federal court late Friday asking the government
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. Kicking Onto the "Greatest" Page

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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. fuck. n/t
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Israel Has Always Struck By Surprise
Not that I don't expect an attack on Iran in the near future, but I don't see Israel being the one starting it...or if they do, this is not how they've done it in the past.

Israel has always gone after high prize targets in secrecy...keeping the lid on things to enhance their chances of success. While a strong military, Israel's Air Force...especially it's elite air corps...are precious and they aren't going to be put out there as sitting ducks by showing their hands to the Iranians.

I see a lot of this as internal political ball puffing between Olmert and Netenyahu...both are fighting for both the "heart" of the Likudniks and how big of a toadie they can be to the boooosh regime. This banter also takes off pressure about addressing the Palestinian and Lebanese issue.
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
16.  Well who knows , really?
We can sit here and guess all we want but we don't have some inside view of what's really going on and what reasons there may exist or what the outcome is desired by these madmen. I say madmen because this is what they are.

Look at what we have done already and if we were asked in 1999 if any of what we've seen since 2000 would be possible most of us would have said , are you crazy , stay away from me man.

But it happened and it continues to happen. We thought in 2006 the occupation would end , this is what we were promised and told and this was what we voted for , didn't happen.

We know jack about anything , all we do is hope and vote and wait and see. None of this makes any sense to a person with common sense.

This media we have needs to have fire hoses aimed at each broadcast station and turned on full blast just to end it and wash all the trash and talking hair styled heads right into the streets including that fake and insane Wolf war room crap , high tech video screens and all. These people are nothing at all but over paid high life liars. People sit and watch this telescreen drivel and walk away even more brain dead as if it all really means anything.

All this does in increase your own personal carbon foot print and urge people to go out and buy more crap to support some fake and phony bottomed out economy.
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