It's official: People here apparently don't get smarter.

[TheWraith]

I just read the beginning of a patently hysterical--and not in the comedy sense--post about how the FISA bill means that democracy died today.

Please, people, don't be idiots. This same absurd claptrap comes around every time there's a noteworthy vote that doesn't go our way. Anyone here remember the nonsense over the Iraq funding bills, or the Military Commissions Act, or a dozen other things? Does anyone remember the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment? "Oh noes!!11 It's a declaration of war with Iran!!!11one"

You know what? The truth is that some people here just want to bleat, and shout, and indulge their Cassandra complexes. It doesn't matter to them what the actual impact of the thing is, or whether it merits the hyperbole it's bathed in. And a lot of other people who should know better get carried away in the slipstream because DU exists as its own little bubble.

The new FISA bill is just one more thing that's going to have to be fixed. Period. Full stop. No different than any of the other bullshit the Congress has been scared into caving on. And that's all there is to it.

[TooBigaTent]

1. And what makes you think that a "democratic" Congress and Obama administration

will "fix" this? Or anything?

Once the election is over and they are safely in power, they will only listen to their corporate backers.

Fool me once, ...
Fool me dozens of times, and I am the fool.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Yeah, might as well let McCain get elected then.

At least he'll be "the devil we know", right? :eyes:

[TooBigaTent]

12. And what makes you think that a "democratic" Congress and Obama administration

will fix anything?

Didn't answer the question the first time, and probably won't again.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. I don't know the answer to that and neither do you.

But I'd rather take my chances on them than more GOP rule. It's really pretty simple.

[TheWraith]

14. What in the hell makes you think they won't, or that they're in ANY WAY comparable to McCain?

You have absolutely no evidence to suggest that this Nader-like stupidity that Democrat is the same thing as Republican, when the positions are quite CLEARLY out there.

[Joe Fields]

2. And SOME people corkscrew themselves into the ground...

defending the indefensible.

But you are right about some people here not getting any smarter.

[sandnsea]

4. The FISA Bill is called CONYERS/ Reyes

Where are the attacks on Conyers?

[Hydra]

5. Yes, it does seem some people don't get smarter

That would include you.

These votes have REAL CONSEQUENCES. People die because of these votes.

I'm glad you haven't been touched yet by any of the aforementioned items...but reality has a way of catching up to the oblivious.

[BOSSHOG]

6. If FISA

were in a vacuum I'd agree. But I tend to think of it as one little piece of a greater evil. One characteristic of conservatives is patience. And let us not think that the (D's) have the white house wrapped up just yet. Voting irregularities and electronic voting machines are not in a vacuum either.

[Enrique]

7. it's been an eventful last few years

Bush has cancelled a number of elections, instituted martial law, built concentration camps, brought fascism to America, and now democracy has offically died.

[TheWraith]

11. I do hope you're being sarcastic.

I imagine you'd have to be.

But with some people on the lose who seriously believe that, you can't be sure.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. More capitulation when it comes to a bad Obama decision.

[ToeBot]

9. Naw - it's just one more thing that they will fail to fix. Period. nt

[JDPriestly]

10. "This" comes around every time . . . because we are watching

the gradual disintegration of our democratic system of government. This is the worst yet. Let's hope that the "conservative" (but independent) courts break our fall into dictatorship once again as they did with habeas corpus and several other things. That is our last hope.

[anitar1]

15. Are you saying that for DUers to "bleat" that it needs to be

approved by someone before the "bleat" is posted? And would that someone be you? I think folks have a right to their opinion even if we do not agree with them

[TheWraith]

17. Nice strawman argument. nt

[Missy Vixen]

16. And you don't think it's a problem that the telecoms were absolved of any responsibility for their

actions today?

They spied on Americans. Repeatedly. They're still doing it, as far as we know. Once the privacy horse is out of the barn, it's not going back in there. We have NO recourse against this.

The presumptive nominee of our party, despite hundreds of thousands of phone calls, letters, FAXes, e-mails, and every other contact any of us could come up with, voted to support it.

Whether or not you've figured it out, this bill will NOT be fixed. Ever.

Let me know when the water gets too hot for you.

Julie

[TheWraith]

19. You're wrong.

One, Obama opposed immunity.

Two, the immunity provision only covers civil liability, not any criminal actions.

Three, anything that can be done by Congress can be undone by Congress.

Yes, it will be fixed. If you REALLY think that Obama and McCain are the same thing, then there's nothing that I can do to help you get back to reality.

[Missy Vixen]

27. Oh, I see

Project much?

>If you REALLY think that Obama and McCain are the same thing, then there's nothing that I can do to help you get back to reality.<

You have such a firm grip on it yourself, don't you?

The American people opposed ALL forms of telecom immunity.

Congress has already shown that they don't give a damn what is right or wrong. They continue passing legislation that is injurious to the American people while telling us that when the Democrats finally have a "majority", everything will be fixed. I call bullshit.

Finally, I have never said that Obama and McCain are the same. Stop putting words into my mouth. What I will say is that I am very disappointed with Barack Obama. I will vote for him, simply because I have no other choice. Is he a change? Anyone with an IQ above room temperature (and who hasn't been drinking the "Yes We Can" Kool-Aid,) has had abundant proof over the past three weeks that he is not the candidate he initially sold himself as.

Julie

[leftofthedial]

18. We should elect McBush then and not worry about it.

It'd be just one more thing to fix. Period.

I feel much better! Thanks!

[TheWraith]

20. YES, because that's EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.

Thank you for listening!

:eyes:

[leftofthedial]

24. It will be hard to obtain any good outcome from a government

ANY government

that is not ruled by law.

This one no longer is, no matter which corporate representative moves into the White House in January.

[redqueen]

21. Get ready for a bunch of fearmongerers and no-hopers to come in

and spew a bunch of unrelated, stupid demagoguery.

Enjoy!

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWatcher]

23. And this Post is Exhibit A.

Be sure to come back and "Bleat" some more when this doesn't get fixed.

[Divine Discontent]

25. why not post in their thread, instead of calling them an idiot in this one? just saying

I agree, we're far from dead. long live freedom and the hope of such!

[TexasObserver]

26. Some DUers are addicted to drama, and that shows up every week.

It's always SOMETHING. I can imagine them at home:

"We're going to have to move from this neighborhood. Someone on the street bought on Hummer."

or

"I can no longer live in this house, if you're going to sit there and eat ice cream while watching Hardball!"

or

"Today is the day Cable TV ended. They took Tyra off the air."