Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

We are a nation of cowards. Here are the words of someone who

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:18 PM
Original message
We are a nation of cowards. Here are the words of someone who
wasn't afraid to fight tyranny - and did just that!


No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?

Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.

There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


Patrick Henry
May 23, 1775


Who among you is willing and brave enough to preserve liberty or die trying? "Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor"
A price that some were once willing to pay. How many of our "leaders" are willing to pay that price today?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. ya know- it's all so easy to say
all so easy to claim- "I'm ready to kill for freedom"-

thank __________ so few really have what it takes.

I won't kill my neighbor for "freedom"- and that is exactly what the esteemed Mr. Paine knew it would cost-

Death is the ultimate liberty.

I gotta get out of this place.


good luck to you.

blu

from the "Live Free or Die" state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Live free...
There is a lot to that statement...

Freedom is a state of mind. I have met prisoners confined in jails that were more at peace and FREE that most walmart walkers...

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm ready to fight!....But can we stop off at McDonald's first?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. How about Chick-Fil-A?
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 08:07 PM by saddlesore
I got a hankering for some nuggets...

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. me. I have children in my family to protect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. So you'll fight? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. yes. I live in Alaska where everything has to be imported and only
Edited on Sat Jun-21-08 12:31 PM by roguevalley
few days will leave us vulnerable. Hawaii has about five days food on hand at all times. We suffer the same thing. Yes, I would fight. Even something as simple as going on a nationwide strike against certain industries would make a difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. It is coming, I guarantee it
and when it comes... it will shock the tories and collaborators.

Patrick Henry didn't get to that point overnight ether

It was a forty year process, more or less

:-)

But we are getting there
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. It took the corporations 100 years to get person hood
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 08:22 PM by saddlesore
Another 100 to control the will of the people. It might take 400 to get it back, but by all that is good and gracious in the world I will teach my children well and they will not have to fight blood on blood for they will rest the tyranny from their hands with a silk glove...

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. There is more than one way to fight.
Ghandi had one that did not include violence.

MLK fought with words and they were so powerful that he was murdered.

To even suggest that a paltry 100 thousand stand against the tyranny that is the U.S. by gathering arms and killing our brother is to give up the last illusion of freedom and force their hand to declare OUTRIGHT martial law and invoke the NSPD-51 directive. At least for now the Corpora-fascist state is happy to let us go about consuming and pretending it is all ok...

It took the Corporations 100 years to get person hood and another 100 years to steal the country, we will not win it back in 2 days by spilling blood...

Sleeping with your eyes open does not make one a coward.

This is my opinion. Besides, I, like yourself, live in Texas and as you know there are a whole lot of guns in this state that would just love to see some action...I have no plan on testing out their effectiveness...at this time.

Call me a coward...it is only a word.

Peace.

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. There are many ways to fight. All but one has been exhausted. It is
our DUTY to wrest our country back from the grip of tyranny and fascism. By whatever means necessary. The choice of means is not ours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. We have not tried peaceful resistance yet
and Patrick Henry and the rest tried that first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I've been reading your very good posts. If what we've been doing,
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 08:13 PM by Texas Explorer
including electing what we thought was a congress that would end the war and impeach booshco, isn't peaceful resistance, then I don't know what is. You'll no doubt tout degrees of resistance, according to your posts calling for national strikes, etc. And, yes, I suppose there's that left. But, like armed insurrection, it is unlikely to ever happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'd not discount it... history being what it is
but really, it took Patrick Henry and the gang about forty years to finally blow a gasket and go for armed rebellion

The early insults happened during the French- Indian wars....

We are far from that point

And we CAN first try the full monty of peaceful resistance

By the way voting and contacting officials is NOT resistance, but what a concerned citizen is supposed to do

And I guarantee you, if things continue the way they are... people who have nothing else to loose become VERY dangerous

But then again I don't like the smell of gunpowder in the morning and consider that an absolute last resort




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. While I agree with the sentiment, I refuse to think
that a paltry band of patriots, however well intentioned can take control.

The U.S. has the best equipped army in the world. Battles are not won on emotion, they are won in the planning room.

Mix up some sangria and a little chipotle avacado salsa and kick back and think about all the other options...

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. You are right insofar as CONVENTIONAL warfare is concerned
we INVENTED guerrilla warfare and the US army is learning (once again) just how effective it is
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I agree that we could throw the state of the union into chaos
and make the country into a seething hell hole through the use of the barbarous tactics of guerrilla warfare.

I simply think that there are other options sans violence that would actually provide a smoother transition...and take the same amount of time while not taking lives...

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I am more in favor of peaceful resistance,
but I am also aware that a hot civil war is more than just a real possibly

I am also aware that the way it will happen is not armies marching forward, but explosives, supply lines and other beauts, classics of guerrilla warfare

The reality is that if you press ANY population far enough, they have nothing else to loose
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Sure...riots could break out...
but would that really be a civil war? Is there enough pain, resources and planning for that much resistance...IMO, not at this time.

Besides a well planned resistance takes motivation, planning and resources. The guerrillas of Nicaragua were nothing more than gnats on the ass of the leaders until the CIA stepped in and gave them money, training and this...

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/guerilla.htm

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. You are taling the contras
the FSLN kept the fight for DECADES

So did the North Vietnamese Army which started the fight against the French right after WW II
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. My mistake...the Contras were the remnants of Samoza's NG
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 09:11 PM by saddlesore
not the guerrillas, and they were just - remnants - until the CIA gave them help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Nelson Mandela's "Clear the Obstacles and Confront the Enemy" says this about
the South African sabotage campaign:

Acts of sabotage were snuffed out because, in our enthusiasm to use violence as a weapon to strike at the enemy, we neglected the important work of strengthening the political organizations by recruiting new members, holding branch meetings, conducting political classes, and uses legal platforms to reach the masses of people. In almost all cases the members of the new sabotage organizations were recruited from the liberation movement, which, in the process, was drained of many of its most active and experienced functionaries. The net result was a weakened movement at a time when it should have been raised to its feet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I'm not advocating an armed assault. That would require more
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 08:25 PM by Texas Explorer
than a million or two armed citizens occupying Washington, DC. Which would never happen in this country. My point is merely rhetorical. My OP serves to highlight the difference between our forefathers' tenacity and bravery and our cowardice, apathy, and lethargy. Afterall, unless Britney Spears is performing pantiless while brandishing shears on the floor of the House, no one will care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thanks for the clarification. Our forefather did not resort to
to violence for quite some time...and there were other mitigating circumstances that made it opportune and reasonable that victory could be achieved.

My apologies for mis-understanding.

saddlesore

If you are ever down Magnolia way and have a hankering for some salsa and sangria...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. "have a hankering for some salsa and sangria..." I ALWAYS have
a hankerin' for salso and sangria! =)

Now, if I could only find the money for gas to get down there =). For salsa and sangria, don't doubt my ability!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I look forward to some plannin... ;-)
Edited on Fri Jun-20-08 08:38 PM by saddlesore
saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I must clarify this little point of the War of Independence
BEST CASE at any one point of the war 1\3 of the population was for for it, 1\3 was against it, and 1\3 didn't give a shit

If you look at current numbers, the ratios are about right

The founders were just a little more stubborn than the other side and had some help from the French
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I'd give my left nut to see 100,000,000 people march on DC. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I'd rather have a two week long national strike
one that freezes the country

Those working in ESSENTIAL services, such as ERs, Fire and Police are of course excepted
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. police?

And what do you think those cops are going to be doing during a general strike?

Be assured, they will be trying to beat our asses, lock us up, maybe worse.

Before the action, after the action, they are proles like us, during the action they are the enemy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Ghandi Was Prepared to Get the Crap Beat Out of Him
Many people who cite the pacifist message seldom seem to consider the full implications.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Oh I do, and the army machined gunned a good one hundred people in five
minutes in the mean 1920s.

By the way, so did MLK, who went to jail many a times, and people WERE killed for civil rights
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. I fully understand the implications.
The point I was trying to make is that there are other methods rather than just picking up a stick and beating the crap out of somebody who may or may not be the enemy.

saddlesore
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Courage is contagious.
May Congress catch it from Kuchinich!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. Every struggle has an essential political dimension: it is the matter of winning
in the realm of popular conscience. Here, personal honesty and ethical integrity have the greatest importance: personal flaws such as impulsivity, greed, hunger for personal power or self-promotion, maliciousness or cruelty, favoritism or prejudices, indifference to injustice, an inability to listen to and learn from others -- these and many other such flaws are all fatal to effective organizing

An ongoing, current, factual, and accurate analysis of the current situation is required at all times -- and it must not devolve into mere ideology. We Americans, however, often suffer from ahistorical perspective. This produces a tendency to rely upon abstractions and opinions, rather than upon facts. It also manifests itself as quasi-magical thinking, such as imagining that whole process of reform is merely a matter of picking a few leaders correctly or fantasizing that a reform will occur spontaneously in the wake of some stirring call to action. The required changes will actually require years to effect and substantial contributions from many many people, who cannot possibly be expected to agree on all points

Leaders can be bought off, intimidated, or otherwise removed. It is therefore necessary to develop real consciousness in a critical number of people: this requires trying things that may not work and learning from mistakes. Such an effort will be resisted by existing powers, using a variety of tactics, some psychological, some brute, some disarmingly sophisticated, some transparently idiotic. When one is effective, for example, disruptors appear.

We have the grave disadvantage, that the modern industries for the production of mass consciousness are not in our hands but are controlled by specific special interest groups, which constantly labor to produce a false consciousness about the world and human abilities. The standard remedy for that disadvantage is popular outreach and organizing, but today the disadvantage might not easily be overcome: we control neither the tubes nor the aether and hence are easily monitored and unplugged

Certain cautions are appropriate as well. Since the ideal is never attainable, compromises will always be necessary. Similarly, one knows that it is easier to sow dragon's teeth than to unsow them: years of progress can be lost by a bad enough choice. And the means adopted always color the end obtained

But we seem to be perched near the cusp of a great crisis



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC