Does Obama have a position on FISA and retroactive immunity?

[JackRiddler]

I see he was not present for the Senate vote (Clinton also absent):

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00435

[JackRiddler]

1. Sorry, that link was to the cloture vote. Here's the yea/nays on the bill itself

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Not voting

that is what is says

[JackRiddler]

8. Yup. 68-29. Disgusting. Here's the roll call...

Round up the usual Democratic enablers...

Alphabetical by Senator Name

Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Brown (D-OH), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Nay
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Not Voting
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Not Voting
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Klobuchar (D-MN), Nay
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea Menendez (D-NJ), Nay
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Not Voting
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. There are days I wonder what will it take for folks to realize

this is not a fucking football game!

[wtmusic]

11. Yea for Webb??

What up with that? :shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

12. Clinton and Obama are the ONLY ones Not Voting... a clear meaning "Vote for the Bill, cover our ass"

It is a clear legislative signal when the two presidential candidates
refuse to take a position against a bill.

It doesn't just mean they see it as being attacked if they came out
against it.

It means what the commentators privately said in 2006: "This bill is
too important to fail, we need it to continue the spying efforts begun
under Clinton, and our liberal constituents may not like it but they
will not know that Obama and Clinton secretly support it like the rest
of official Washington, just like Free Trade -- another issue the
sensible statesman are out in front of the American People on."

[JackRiddler]

13. Sounds about right. Thanks.

[KamaAina]

17. Remember this whenever the Veepstakes comes up

Biden (D-DE), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Webb (D-VA), Yea

Also surprised to see RI's Whitehouse in the fifth Yea column. :puke:

[mhastings]

3. here's his statement on it

http://obama.senate.gov/press/080212-obama_statement_122/

[babylonsister]

4. That's from Feb. 12. nt

[LSparkle]

5. Let's hope his desire to be prez hasn't changed his mind on this

It's critical that he stand against immunity ...

[JackRiddler]

7. Well, he can't directly vote in the House...

But I bet he's got some weight to throw around, if he cares.

[LSparkle]

10. Makes it EASIER for him to speak out strongly against it ...

If he has any pull with DINO Nancy P., he ought to use it
to torpedo that bill.

[Leopolds Ghost]

15. His desire to be prez indicates the real purpose of FISA which is to blackmail enemies of the admin.

With East German style dragnets that never yield any real information,

just a pervasive climate of fear.

Can't become president and go up against that without someone deciding
to pick up on some random unprovable information on your candidate
from sources unknown and spreading it around the blogosphere...

[JackRiddler]

6. Good, but...

How about he repeats this with emphasis, in a speech?



Obama Statement on FISA
Tuesday, February 12, 2008


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Michael Ortiz, 202 228 5566

WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Earlier today, Senator Obama voted in favor of the Dodd-Feingold amendment to repeal retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies (S. Amdt. 3907). He also supported other amendments to improve the bill, including the Feingold-Webb-Tester amendment to protect Americans from unwarranted surveillance (S. Amdt. 3979), and the Feingold amendment to protect Americans from the bulk collection of communications (S. Amdt. 3912).

"I am proud to stand with Senator Dodd, Senator Feingold and a grassroots movement of Americans who are refusing to let President Bush put protections for special interests ahead of our security and our liberty. There is no reason why telephone companies should be given blanket immunity to cover violations of the rights of the American people - we must reaffirm that no one in this country is above the law.

"We can give our intelligence and law enforcement community the powers they need to track down and take out terrorists without undermining our commitment to the rule of law, or our basic rights and liberties. That is why I am proud to cosponsor several amendments that protect our privacy while making sure we have the power to track down and take out terrorists.

"This Administration continues to use a politics of fear to advance a political agenda. It is time for this politics of fear to end. We are trying to protect the American people, not special interests like the telecommunications industry. We are trying to ensure that we don't sacrifice our liberty in pursuit of security, and it is past time for the Administration to join us in that effort."

[Leopolds Ghost]

14. He hasn't said enough about Katrina either... not nearly as much as he should have.

"Jack shit" is perhaps a little harsh but he hasn't said more than any
other US Senator about the need to help New Orleans. To be fair he
supports New Orleans public housing, but stood by and watched New Orleans
Dems voted to tear down 100% of all public housing in the city after its
residents were not allowed to return. Comparisons to Bobby Kennedy are
just sad -- when you realize that John Edwards is the only guy mirroring
what Bobby Kennedy would have said and done.

I am getting less and less impressed and expectant of a landslide --
unless it is a "rightward realignment" landslide where Obama and the
Democratic Party inherit the Reagan mantle and the Republicans
go the way of the Whigs, forcing liberals to form their own party
after 8 years of Clinton style, Woodrow Wilson style corporatocracy.

[Truth2Tell]

16. He made a strong statement... Buuut,

it looks like he won't do anything to help. He's decided this issue is too dangerous politically.

Glen Greenwald discussed this in depth yesterday:

...

Making matters much worse here, Obama -- who has removed himself almost completely from the pending eavesdropping and telecom amnesty debate -- recorded this ad for Barrow on the eve of that bill's passage, all in order to keep in power a key Democratic supporter of this FISA/amnesty bill. Yet telecom amnesty is not merely a side issue but is one of the purest expressions of what Obama claims so vigorously to oppose in Washington.

-snip

This is everything Obama claims so vehemently to oppose, claims he wants to end. And yet the Congress under the control of his party is about to enact a radical bill to legalize vast new warrantless eavesdropping powers and immunize telecoms who broke our country's laws for years. And not only is Obama doing nothing about any of that, but far more, he's actively intervening in a Democratic primary to help one of the worst enablers of all of this stay in power, while helping to defeat an insurgent, community-based challenger.

None of that is enjoyable to write or accept, but those are just facts. There is a disturbing tendency on all sides to view Obama through a reductive Manichean lens -- either he's the embodiment of pure transformative Good who is going magically to cleanse our polity the minute he takes office, or he's nothing other than a mindless, passive tool of the establishment whose pretty rhetoric masks a barren ambition for power and who is no better than McCain. Neither of those caricatures is remotely accurate, and a John McCain presidency would be an unmitigated disaster on every level.

But it's critical to keep in mind that Obama is a politician and, like all people, is plagued by significant imperfections. He has largely entrenched himself in, and is dependent upon, the power structure he says he wants to undermine. Uncritical devotion to political leaders, including him, is destructive. Obama needs pressure, criticism, checks, and real scrutiny just like anyone else in power in order to keep him accountable, responsive, and faithful to the principles he claims are the ones driving him.

Much much more http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/19/obama/index.html">here.

[Marie26]

18. Guess he won't make a statement on this bill.

This bill passed the Senate in Feb. (that's when Clinton & Obama abstained). But the House passed a different version & cut out the immunity for telcoms. Since Congress passed conflicting versions, they have to create a "compromise" bill that can pass both the House & Senate. The "compromise" bill is what the House will be voting on tomorrow. This bill PUTS BACK IN retroactive immunity for the telcoms.

What's scary is that apparently the final copy of the compromise bill wasn't even available until today. It looks like they're trying to hide this & pass it before the blogosphere/liberal activists can create enough pressure to stop it.

EFF Obtains New FISA Bill Containing Telecom Immunity, Vote in House Tomorrow! - http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/06/eff-obtains-new-fisa-bill-containing-telecom-immun