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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:30 AM
Original message
And Obama's veep is ... a Republican?
Some are buzzing about Chuck Hagel, a strong critic of Bush and the war, for the Democratic ticket. A bold idea or political fantasy?
By Mike Madden

Jun. 17, 2008 | Something strange happened to Chuck Hagel over the last couple of years: He started to turn into John McCain.

Not the John McCain who's running for president this year, though. The John McCain who ran in 2000 and who rampaged in the Senate for a few years after that -- leading the charge for campaign finance reform, flirting publicly with Democratic leaders, opposing George W. Bush apparently for the sheer fun of it. The John McCain, in other words, who was for a time the favorite Republican of many Democrats.

Now Hagel seems to have taken over that title -- and he's being discussed as a contender for Barack Obama's vice-presidential pick. While Hagel is a long shot for the job, what seems to be stirring some interest in him is less a question of electoral math than of political metaphysics. Running with a Republican would reinforce the message that Obama is serious about changing the way things are done in Washington, and that he really does aim to move the country past the partisan battles of the last couple of decades. At the same time, Hagel's very public split with Bush and the rest of the GOP on the war in Iraq bolsters Obama's case about foreign policy -- that the administration has America on the wrong track vis-à-vis the rest of the world.

But Hagel may be a more attractive candidate in theory than in reality. The buzz about him seems to overlook the fact that he is, despite how much he may like to criticize his own party, a conservative Republican, especially on issues that don't involve foreign affairs. Politics, the saying goes, stops at the water's edge. So might the Obama-Hagel ticket.

As the war in Iraq dragged on, Hagel, Nebraska's senior senator, started to see more and more parallels with Vietnam, a war he -- like McCain -- experienced firsthand. But where McCain looked at the Bush administration's initial Iraq strategy and saw mismanagement hurting a noble cause, Hagel saw an idea he never liked much to begin with (though he voted to authorize it). He saw it getting worse as it went along, and he said so publicly. Two months before the 2004 election, Hagel called the reconstruction effort "beyond pitiful." Last summer, he told Esquire President Bush was "not accountable anymore" and that "before this is over, you might see calls for his impeachment."

The lifelong conservative -- who nearly ran for the GOP nomination himself before deciding, instead, to retire from the Senate -- is getting some buzz among Democratic activists and Beltway pundits as a possible running mate for Barack Obama. (Once again, a reminder that this is shaping up to be an unusual election.) Hagel gets touted as a moderate Republican who's wise on foreign affairs and ready to reach across the aisle to help the country get back on track, as well as help win independent voters for the ticket.

Hagel's wife, Lilibet, gave Obama $500 in February, and Hagel himself has pointedly declined to endorse McCain. Last month on CNN, Hagel ducked a question about the vice-presidency, passing up the chance to give a robust, Shermanesque "no." (His office declined to comment for this story.)

Selecting a prominent Republican war critic -- and one given to pronouncements like, "I sometimes question whether I'm in the same party I started off in" -- might be the way for Obama to make good on his post-partisan rhetoric. But is the Democratic Party -- let alone the country -- ready for a so-called national unity ticket?

entire article @ link: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/17/hagel_veep/print.html
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not going to happen
I do not know why people keep claiming that Obama is going to take a hard-core winger like Hagel as a VP. Not going to happen.

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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. I just can't imagine that Obama would pick someone
that shares but one issue with him.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Choice B -- political fantasy. No, scratch that. Political nightmare.
Edited on Tue Jun-17-08 08:35 AM by SteppingRazor
It's a great article, and it makes a pretty good case while offering all the negatives as well, but I think that, when talk of a Republican on the ticket comes up, we must boil the job down to its basic constitutional role. It has two:

1) Serve as president of the Senate, breaking ties.

2) In case of the death or incapacitation of the president, take over that role.


In either of these cases, Chuck Hagel cannot be depended upon to help the Democratic cause. On anything except the war, Hagel could very likely break a tie in favor of Republicans, and God help us if something were to happen to Obama and we got a President Hagel.

No, a Republican on the ticket is an idea best left in the trash heap.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. exactly. it's a monumentally stupid idea.
nt
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. If Obama picks a Repuke as his VP, he'd quickly be Wellstoned. n/t
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. That's just plain silly n/t
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I wouldn't even go that far down the conspiracy hole...
just the outside chance that something -- anything -- could happen to Obama to incapacitate him, even for a matter of days or weeks, is enough to keep a Republican out of the VP slot.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not a terrible idea strategically.
The Democratic Party would still get to pick a Democratic nominee to run against the Incumbent Republican Vice President in 2016.

The Repukes would have to decide: Do they nominate the Republican Incumbent Vice President, or run another Repuke against him in the Primary? And would the Repukes vote for the incumbent VP to be President if he served 8 years alongside a Democratic President?

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. It is if he even ends up with a 50-50 senate vote.
It is if he has a debilitating accident.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. If he decides to choose a Republican as his VP, I would rather he choose
Sarah Palin, the Governor of Alaska. She has the highest approval rating of any Governor and is liked by more Democrats in her state than Republicans. She has been very open in her criticism of the corruption in Republican corners of her state. Has not once tried to defend any of those accused. With her on his ticket the Obama team would be unstoppable.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you for contributing to the rumor mill. When it comes to wild ass speculation, we all can help
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. So stick your head in the sand and don't read Salon or bother to read a post you don't like, eom.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'll go against the grain and say
I wouldn't have a problem if he is chosen. Do I think it will happen? No.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Yep, I would not have a problem either, but
it is EXTREMELY unlikely. What I think that people that say no way, horrible idea, I'll never vote for a wingnut, look at his voting record, he is only right on the war and wrong on everything else, etc., etc., don't know or fail to understand is that in spite of the obvious differences (and I am not saying they do not matter, just that they are not the whole story), Obama and Hagel think in similar ways about issues. Sometimes they reach similar conclusions, often they don't, but they have a similar holistic and thoughtful approach to dealing with problems. Just as a relative minor example, here is a paragraph from Hagel's recent book, came across it last night, and it made me think of the Obama's Father Day speech, at least the short snippets that I saw, and other things I heard from Obama as well.

"Citizens are made, not born, and in my experience, it is only through service that we create the bond of citizenship that ties us to our communties and our nation. We are failing ourselves and our country if we do not teach our young people that it is good to serve and that service brings with it the reward the feeling that you are part of something bigger than yourself. Imparting that knowldege to a generation held captive by digital distractions will take engaged ecouragement from parents, teachers, and the nation. In short, our kids wont' know what we don't teach them."
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. His book is a major reason I know I could accept him as VP.
He believes moving America forward and in proper work and compromise to bring the best outcomes instead of producing ideological outcomes (like what we've been through). I doubt Obama will take the risk concerning the Democratic base though. Thanks for posting.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Not a chance. nt
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. He will not put a Republican on the ticket
Perhaps in the cabinet, but that's typical. Clinton and Dubya crossed party lines for their cabinet.

But the last time a nominee put someone from a different party on the ticket, we went from Abraham Lincoln to Andrew Johnson, and everyone was pissed off. I just don't see it happening. He'll go Democrat, and there's no way a Republican like Hagel will be there. Same with an independent like Bloomberg. The Democratic party won't stand for it.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. Wonderful! I mean, what can you say about a guy that votes
against health insurance for poor kids?

:sarcasm:
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El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. He can do that if he wants to lose resoundingly.
I would sooner pound sand up my ass as vote for Chuck Hagel.

And there are a lot of dems who would feel the exact same way.


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. agree....n/t
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
16. Nope, won't happen.....
other than the war he is a republican through and through!
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. I see Hagel as a potential Sec. of Defense
but, 95% of the Democratic party, and a ton of pro-choice independents would freak out over Hagel.

He's scored 0 or near zero on almost every social issue.

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ProgressiveFool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
23. Hagel seems like a pretty decent guy
But having him as VP seems like a pretty bad idea. Or any Republican, for that matter. The VP needs to be another voice in support of the same policies, someone Obama can send out there to get the same message out there.

It would be nice to cherry-pick what few good Republicans there are out there and put them in prominent positions, to give the rest of the breed something to aspire to. Secretary of Defense wouldn't be a bad idea, as long as Obama is sure that he can rein in Hagel's own ego. At least as SecDef, Hagel gives the impression that his focus would be on the well-being of the troops.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. While the admins try to drum up money for Obama
This sort of post is why so many are hesitant. Hagle on the ticket is unacceptable. That would mean the GOP has both tickets, McCain and ours. Forget it. I would not, and fucking tombstone me if this is what that means, I would not vote for a Republican ticket, even with a Democrat on it as well. Not a chance. I have not been in a coma for 8 years.
Hagle gets a 11% rating from the NAACP, 0% from NARAL and another big 0% from the Human Rights Campaign. O% from the enviromental organization LCV...but a big 8% from the AFL-CIO.
He did get 100% from the Christian coallition and from the pro-life crowd. 92% from Cato Institute for his free trade policies.
No on McCain Feingold. No on funding the NEA.

He's not a moderate, he is a right wing conservative Republican. What do you think shows him to be moderate? Specifics please.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. WHat has this to do with anything?
Obama's as yet unknown choice :shrug: donating through DU :shrug: a speculative Salon article :shrug:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Read the pro-Hagle posts here
Read about Hagle. I posted some facts about him. It has much to do with it. The man is a highly conservative Republican. People here are promoting him for office over a Democrat. If such a thing occured, I would not be supporting that ticket, sorry. No way. So it has to do with fundraising in that I for one will not contribute to a campaign that is even considering Hagel, see?
I'm not donating to his campaign with such a threat hanging over my head. Just no. I am a Democrat. I am bothered by the constant praise for Republicans here, coupled with the full tilt attacks on RFK Jr, Maya Anelgou, Hillary, Maxine Waters, and others. I am Democrat. Those who love Chuckie and hate Maxine and Bobby are not what I call compadres.
Obama himself is already far too socially conservative for my taste. Add Hagel and well, it would be too much. We voted for Obama because his backers said they would not vote for other Democrats and would run off and pout if he did not get the nomination. Those folk should be donating. Some of us may wish to wait to see how right wing Obama is going to go. He already says he sees my family as less valid than his own in the eyes of God. That is enough. Add a Republican and it is a GOP ticket with a Donkey pin on its lapel.
The connection is huge. Obama's supporters here should think about it. In addition to Hagel I have seen threads favoring General Petraeus, Colin Powell, Olympia Snow...this is not just on Salon. Such threads are so popular here I am not sure I can support his website anylonger. I am a Democrat, see? I oppose Hagel.
So yeah. It is very connected. DU is where all of the pro-GOP threads are being made in terms of his running mate. If I were donating to him, no way would it be through DU as I would not want to imply that I agree with the pro-Republicans posting here. My money will go to State and local candidates, and the national folk can wait until they find a progressive running mate to put forth.
Hagel as VP means I leave the Party nationally. There is no way on Earth I'd vote for him to hold power over my family, just no way. Same for the rest of the lockstep BushParty. I have no need to reward them.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. Stupid disgusting idea that will alienate lots of Democrats.
And sends a message that says -- Golly Gee, we Dems don't have any national security guys of our own so we had to raid the Republican team.
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ProgressiveFool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. good point
I take back what I said about him being a good possible SecDef. Sure he might be capable in the job, but we need a Democrat owning that position and together with Obama claiming the national security mantle. Clinton, by appointing the Repub Cohen to SecDef, perpetuated the false meme that Democrats aren't strong on national security.
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Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
27. Would Democratic Party rules even allow this?
I keep asking, but NO ONE will answer this question.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Probably because no one knows :-) n/t
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vinylsolution Donating Member (807 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. No compromises over VP....
... No AIPAC fudging with Lieberman, either.

It's gotta be Obama / Clark '08. Guarantees a huge victory in November.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. I will stay home if Obama takes an anti-choicer like Hagal as VP...
No fucking way!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. This is as stupid as the trolls who came onto this board in 2004
and suggested that Kerry should choose McCain as his running mate. Nope, I'm not making this up.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. What bullshit!
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Isn't Hagel the one who had a major interest in ES&S
voting machines and won in a landslide in the state? His opponent felt there were major irregularities in the voting machines and went to the Ethics committee with his case. I don't know all that transpired, but the head of the ethics committee stepped down after that.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
35. Is Hagel on the OFFICIALLY RUMORED LIST?? Anyone know?
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Officially rumored? :-) n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. I like and trust Hagel, and I trust Obama's judgment, so I would be fine with it, as long
as he switches parties and becomes an Indie or Dem--or at least promises to uphold the Dem agenda and platform if something happens to Obama (God forbid). Totally unlikely that he would be chosen, though--I wonder why the Obama campaign, or the DNC, allows this speculation and hasn't shot it down publicly yet? Maybe they're allowing it to go unrefuted as a rumor to enhance Obama's bipartisan/Indie appeal?
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