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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:13 PM
Original message
LAW SCHOOL TO ORGANIZE BUSH WAR CRIMES TRIAL
LAW SCHOOL TO ORGANIZE BUSH WAR CRIMES TRIAL
Submitted by davidswanson on Mon, 2008-06-16 19:04.


By Sherwood Ross


A conference to plan the prosecution of President Bush and other high administration officials for war crimes will be held September 13-14 at the Massachusetts School of Law at Andover .

"This is not intended to be a mere discussion of violations of law that have occurred," said convener Lawrence Velvel, dean and cofounder of the school. "It is, rather, intended to be a planning conference at which plans will be laid and necessary organizational structures set up, to pursue the guilty as long as necessary and, if need be, to the ends of the Earth."

"We must try to hold Bush administration leaders accountable in courts of justice," Velvel said. "And we must insist on appropriate punishments, including, if guilt is found, the hangings visited upon top German and Japanese war-criminals in the 1940s."

:wow:

more...

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/34171

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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. whoa
... :wow:

:kick:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. whoa indeed. the kids are all right.
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But.... Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. Makes you feel a little better...
for the future doesn't O8)
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. it truly does, my friend. :)
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Three words: Standing Room Only.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I can't even believe this! And you're right! I'd pay to see that! nt
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. As well as
Pay-per-view. Proceeds to be divided evenly amongst families of those soldiers killed in Iraq.

Ask yourself this: would you pay $59.95 to see, live, the war crimes trial and potential prosecution of George Duhbya Boosh?

I would.

:D
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #51
72. Yes. I'd pay to see that, too.
In a heartbeat!
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is excellent- with the exception of
'hangings'- I would have been against that back then, as I am now- but holding this administration accountable, and making them face tangible,- meaningful concequences is very important.

Thanks for posting this.

peace~
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Fine them millions & billions and put them on the streets to survive.
US should have the right to recover the cost of loss to the Treasury due to their royal-assholiness.
The people of this nation should treat them as they treated the least of their borothers. Katrina, Gitmo, Ohio flood victims, middle class, lower class who have had programs cut for their schools, communities, national infrastructer, denied medical needs, starvation, homelessness, and all things good and necessary to sustain and strengthen this great country.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. I'd have gone with the scaffold myself, but you've convinced me there are worse things...
That's a great list. There's something awfully compelling about the thought of The Commander Guy with a five-day growth of gray-white beard, sloppy drunk on muscatel, another pretzel gash across his cheek but, ooops, he hasn't seen a pretzel in months. Staggering into the homeless shelter and getting his ass kicked right back out as soon as he's recognized...

And Cheney with nobody to polish his scalp, $400 shoes with big holes in the thin leather soles, newspaper stuffed inside in a failed effort to keep out the rain and the cold, and now when he shoots somebody in the face while hunting, nobody's laughing. Instead, he gets busted just like all the rest of us would and the arresting cop decides to tase him just because he deserves it. Ooops, that fancy defibrillator isn't built to handle that kind of jolt. Ah well, it had to happen sooner or later...

Then there's Rumsfeld and Rice and Hadley and Rove and Gonzales and Ashcroft and Powell and Gates and Addington and Libby and Perle and Wolfowitz and Feith and Zelikow and ... All of them penniless and on the streets. None of them with a clue how to survive without a mansion and maids and a gigantic bank account. Despised by all who recognize them. Beaten unconscious at least twice a week by somebody who's been waiting a very long time for the opportunity to express his feelings in an unambiguous way.

Seems their Cadillac health care benefits are long gone, too, so they have to go to the free clinic to get stitched up. So they end up sitting right next to a few of the faceless victims of their sadistic policies, some of whom seize the opportunity for a little ad hoc wealth redistribution and roll them for a couple of quarters here and a crumpled buck there -- money that they planned to pool for another quart of muscatel. Ah well...

Damn life's a bitch when your past finally catches up with you.


wp



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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Your scenario spells it out. This is what I truly wish for them.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 04:33 PM by Blaze Diem
They should live among the mentally ill homeless. Fight with others for ownership to their space under a bridge. No rights other than to be born to this earth. As they gather at the table of the local soup kitchen they can talk of the days they dined with kings & emperors, but who's going to believe them, others at the kitchen? They've all got incredible stories to tell, triumphs and days of grandeur.
No pricey shoe shopping for Condi.No jetting the world with an entourage of security & assistants, and no sleeping on the finest linens. Unkempt hair and head lice. Decayed and missing teeth. Calloused feet from days on the street. No bath, no masseuse, no soap.
This is what they have dealt American citizens and this is what they should endure until the day they disappear and die for lack of affordable medical care.
I can think of nothing more fitting for what they have selfishly taken from our Nation.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. "Unkempt hair and head lice. Decayed and missing teeth." ...
Yup, I'm converted. That's so revolting that the Bushies are among the rare groups who would qualify for such a program.

And it needs to apply to all of them, from the lower-level serial liars up to and including Defibrillator Dick and The Commander Guy hisseff.

Maybe a few right wing dictators they've helped over the years could become honorary members too.

Speaking of wingers, is Margaret Thatcher still alive? Now there's a candidate for a little political readjustment if ever I saw one.

Besides being Raygun with a brain, which is bad enough, her mania for so-called free market solutions was out of control. In a move of extraordinary malevolence -- extraordinary even for politicians -- she cut funding for the NHS every year she was in office, as did Major after her. For 17 straight years they intentionally ran the British health care system into the ground in hopes that the NHS experience would become so awful that Brits would cry out for a US-style privatized system of their own.

Now that's an offense worthy of a Bushie-class punishment. Fortunately, Brits don't tend to shoot themselves in the foot like we do, so the plot failed and asshole Tony Blair actually restored proper funding in one of those rare moments when he wasn't pandering or sucking up to the Bushies.

/unnecessary digression

Just one more necessity: the plan requires a small army of enforcers, composed entirely of taser-equipped, pissed off lefties who'd rather eat razor blades than let the Bushies pull off a jail break. Or that they aren't rescued right off the streets by some misguided idiot who feels they've suffered enough.

Where suffering and the Bushies are concerned, there's no such thing as enough.

So this is a first: I've never before considered that there are things worse for them and more personally satisfying for me than the scaffold or life without parole at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo. With maybe a little dose of their own approved "enhanced interrogation" methods thrown in just for justice' sake.

Not that I'd reject either of those outcomes, but I really wouldn't mind seeing them deposited in a modern urban hell-scape that looks like a set from "Escape from New York." Except Snake won't be helping anybody out this time.

Thanks for a very interesting point of view.


wp
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. i was so into that fantasy
i didn't want to stop reading. more, more!
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
71. Why should the people in the street have to put up with them
put them is a dungeon, one that has water dripping in it and when it rains the water rises. Not enough to drown them, only enough to make them worry they might. Sorry, the part of me that wants to punish them the way they deserve got carried away. :evilgrin:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
78. "Royal Assholiness"!
Can I use that?
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #78
99. certainly..in ref to all things GOP. Be my guest.

We are left with creating new words since none exist in the languages of all men, which aptly describe the whole sorry lot of the Bush crime family.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
86. Streets would be way too good for them.
I figure that putting them in a federal supermax and make sure that the other inmates there get an hour a day with them would be the best fate.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
45. Hit Them in Their Wallets -
That's where they seem to carry their consciences.... :bounce:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
57. Yes, I was thinking the same thing about hangings.
Let's prosecute them, convict them, and then prove ourselves better than them by imprisoning them--or, if we could, healing them of their psychopathic personality structures.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. I would hope one of the areas of restitution for this illegal war would
be to taking holdings and earnings and make sure the soldiers and family's in foreign places affected by this are will compensated.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
73. Amen!
It would be sweet justice to give them pain in the pocketbook. That's the only place they really have feelings.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Lawrence Velvel for Speaker of the House! nt
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. put up the bat, folka. lots of us would dig deep for this one.
second your :wow:
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Best damned title I've read in 8 freaking years!
TY
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ouch! Just down the road from one of GeeDubya's alma maters--Phillips Academy.
:rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Maybe they need Bugliosi's book and jurisdictional guidance.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Maybe that's the basis for their actions.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. By all accounts, that book lays out the prosecution's case.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
67. With Kucinich, Wexler & Conyers as keynote speakers? ~nt~
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2hip Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. this sounds promising
put it in the hands of the nuber-pissed private sector and show our elected officials how it's done.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
76. Well how 'bout that? Privatization - actually producing results for the rest of us!
A privatized war crimes tribunal.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Have you seen the Vincent Bugliosi clip yet? Prosecuting Bush for Murder (his book)
Paraphrasing the title, but here is a clip from his
web site about his intention.

Sounds like he and this school should work together!

http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/video.php

BHN
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. He's very serious. The lack of justice is getting to him.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I think I will post a thread to compliment B'sister's.
Bugliosi is casting a rather huge shadow on
the BFEE's plan to walk away from their crimes
is you ask me....

I sure as hell wouldn't want him coming after me!

BHN
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes, he's a bulldog of sorts.
He has the whole case spelled out and jurisdiction for people to pursue it from every corner of the United States. All it will take is a prosecutor with the proper amount of courage, conviction, and priniciples.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well, one of the students from the OP group may JUST BE THAT PERSON!!!
I would think the law school educators in charge of the project
must surely be a ware of Bugliosi's book!
Maybe it was part of the inspiration for the project!

MAYBE, one of those students will be using Bugliosi's book
to pursue and win justice one day.

God knows our fucking Congress wont.

BHN
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Nope, congress won't. That's why they call our government broken right now.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 03:46 PM by mmonk
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sweet that someone is looking at these crimes from a legal standpoint
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 02:59 PM by GreenPartyVoter
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. meanwhile in the Mukasey Dept of Justice -- politics as usual
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. hello, stunto
before anyone gets too worked up by this, MSL is also the only law school in Massachusetts not accredited by the ABA (the national standard)

just worth keeping in mind.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
81. One has to wonder why the only
law school in Massachusetts not accredited by the ABA is the only law school attempting to make sure that Bush is investigated. While trying not to jump to conclusions, it has been seven years of breaking the law, and we are concerned that this law school have accreditation from an institutions that gave us Mukasey, Woo, Meirs, and Ashcroft etc......I'm not to concerned. The law is the law, and you don't have to be accredited before knowing that.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. There can never be peace
without justice.
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. Works for me. Really, really, REALLY works for me.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 03:09 PM by WritersBlock

Another very interesting thing is the War Crimes Prosecution Watch newsletter from Case Western Reserve University School of Law. You can subscribe by sending an email to warcrimeswatch@pilpg.org with subscribe in the subject line. or read back issues at http://www.publicinternationallaw.org/warcrimeswatch /




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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Can George's dad bail him out of this one??
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 03:16 PM by Blaze Diem
This scenario of Bush's 8 yrs of US Presidency is par for the course where GW is concerned.
Hasn't he screwed up badly, whatever he was given?
Only thing ever saved him was his daddy's power & money.

Total fuck-up.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I would imagine the Paraguay Get-away is part of the contingency plan.
And all that water in the aquifer probably appealed to them
given the coming droughts and climate change.

BHN
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
69. The Bush Family's Bad Latin Real Estate Investment
I wondered about that too, so I Googled and found this:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/lindorff/094

The Bush Family's Bad Latin Real Estate Investment

Submitted by BuzzFlash on Fri, 05/02/2008 - 3:55pm. Dave Lindorff

Back in late 2006, it was widely reported in the Latin American media that President Bush, or perhaps his old man, had bought a 100,000-acre farm in a remote area of Paraguay.

What struck people at the time was the choice of country. Paraguay, of course, has gained a certain Club Med status among the world's villains and criminal elements as the place to go when the law's on your tail. The country, ruled for six decades by the dictatorial and fascist Colorado Party of Gen. Alfredo Stroesser, an almost cartoon caricature of a Latin American dictator, has no extradition treaty with any nation.

That's why it has long harbored aging Nazis, bank robbers, and a string of ousted or retired Latin American dictators and their assistants over the years.

Given that President Bush, once he leaves office on January 20, 2009, will no longer have the diplomatic immunity conferred upon heads of state, or the Constitutional protection against indictment by domestic prosecutors, it makes sense that he would be looking for a safe haven from the long arm of the law.

After all, the guy is guilty of a huge laundry list of international crimes, from the Crime Against Peace and Conspiracy against Peace in the UN Charter, to Geneva Convention violations such as approval of torture of prisoners, collective punishment of civilians, the killing of children and child soldiers, the failure to protect occupied citizens, the use of banned weapons, etc., etc., and also of domestic crimes, ranging from political use of government employees, conspiracy, treason, lying to federal officials, defrauding Congress, etc.

- snip -

Only trouble is, Paraguay may not be such a safe haven for long.

Last month, a former Roman Catholic Bishop with leftist, populist tendencies, Fernando Lugo, surprised almost everyone in Paraguay, and no doubt President Bush, by winning the national presidential election, ousting the Colorado Party for the first time in 61 years. There is talk that among other things, Lugo is thinking of returning Paraguay to the community of nations, by signing some of those extradition agreements.

If he does that, Bush may be stuck having to hide behind his rump squad of Secret Service agents down at the Crawford Ranch, hoping they can keep the process servers from Brattleboro and Marlboro, VT, with their war crimes arrest warrants, at bay.



Anyone have any idea if Bush* has been messing with Paraguay lately? Either they will try to oust Lugo, work out some kind of bribery scheme, or find someplace else to go. I don't want him luxuriously basking away in Dubai. Although, I'm not so sure the UAE would even be interested in having ol' Whistle Ass there.


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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #69
90. The "process servers" may be the real "moment of truth" in the bush* story
We will see if there ever will be justice.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
87. Daddy dearest not to mention every other member of that family
needs to be sharing cells at the worst prison in the country.

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DeposeTheBoyKing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. Come on, Pitt Law - what are you waiting for?
I'd think Professor Jules Lobel could get something like that going.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. OK by me
well, not the hangings...

Cause well...not even for them can I support the DP.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm with you on the DP- send his ass to Iraq with a bucket and a broom instead.
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 03:46 PM by BeHereNow
He made the mess, let him spend the rest of his life
cleaning it up.
Now that would be justice served.

BHN
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Ya, they will meet him with flowers and gratitude..
like he gets everywhere he goes.
George can carry the mop & Dick can carry the bucket.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. That would be interesting
to watch...on TV...live-cam....Bush in Iraq.





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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
88. Only reason I wouldn't support it for them would be that it would be way too good a fate for them.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. I'd agree that death is too good for them
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Oh, thank goodness.
I had been wondering the last couple of years where this generation's Simon Wiesenthals would come from.

Now I have my answer: The Massachusets School of Law at Andover.

:applause:
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
34. Bush could not wait for Saddam to be hung, and he did not even get the
trial at the Hague that heads of state generally receive. The Bush cabal were too afraid of the beans he'd spill. These Bushistas are monsters. Hanging may be just the ticket for war crimes of this magnitude, even though I generally oppose the death penalty. Over a million Iraqis are dead thanks to the Bush cabal. And many more Americans than the official number have died because of the Bush war crime family.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Trials under foreign occupation are not considered
valid under international law.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. this would be awsome
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. please oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please
:applause:
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. this is great
i hope they stream it, and it gets a lot of publicity!
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. Jesus, using the hangings visited upon top German and Japanese war-criminals in the 1940s and
to the ends of the earth sounds a wee tad ominous. :D
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. Love it!

Godspeed to the TRUE patriots!


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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need some Hope with my Justice, and many sides of Accountability!!!!!!!!!! nt
NoFederales
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
48. Yeah Baby YEAH!
"For Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and John Yoo to spend years in jail or go to the gallows for their crimes would be a powerful lesson to future American leaders," Velvel said."

It is THE lesson that MUST be made - to ensure that NO ONE ELSE ever again takes us to war for corporate profits!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. holy crap!
Velvel said past practice has been to allow U.S. officials responsible for war crimes in Viet Nam and elsewhere to enjoy immunity from prosecution upon leaving office. "President Johnson retired to his Texas ranch and his Defense Secretary Robert McNamara was named to head the World Bank; Richard Nixon retired to San Clemente and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was allowed to grow richer and richer," Velvel said.

He noted in the years since the prosecution and punishment of German and Japanese leaders after World War Two those nation's leaders changed their countries' aggressor cultures. One cannot discount contributory cause and effect here, he said.

"For Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and John Yoo to spend years in jail or go to the gallows for their crimes would be a powerful lesson to future American leaders," Velvel said.

The conference will take up such issues as the nature of domestic and international crimes committed; which high-level Bush officials, including Federal judges and Members of Congress, are chargeable with war crimes; which foreign and domestic tribunals can be used to prosecute them; and the setting up of an umbrella coordinating committee with representatives of legal groups concerned about the war crimes such as the Center for Constitutional Rights, ACLU, National Lawyers Guild, among others.

The Massachusetts School of Law at Andover was established in 1988 to provide an affordable, quality legal education to minorities, immigrants and students from low-income households that might otherwise be denied the opportunity to obtain a legal education and practice law. Its founder, Dean Velvel, has been honored by the National Law Journal and cited in various publications for his contributions to the reform of legal education. #

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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. K&R!!!!!!
Go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
54. they deserve to be prosecuted, they are WAR CRIMINALS.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
55. Gee...the good ndews just keeps coming.
I sense a new energy in the force...
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
56. I have the same reaction as you:

:wow:
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
58. Nancy, you really should step down and let non-complicit Dems run the show and lead impeachment.
Good for these guys and good for the country. rec'd
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
59. This is gonna happen
one way or another.
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guyton Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
60. good start
but don't forget each of the congress critters that voted to allow the tyrants to invade in the first place.

why do you think it's been so hard to impeach them? the guilty parties are numerous.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
61. With the help of Philippe Sands
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 10:06 PM by seemslikeadream
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080617/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/d...


Military lawyers objected to harsher interrogation


Military lawyers warned against the harsh detainee interrogation techniques approved by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in 2002, contending in separate memos weeks before Rumsfeld's endorsement that they could be illegal, a Senate panel has found.

The investigation by the Senate Armed Services Committee also has confirmed that senior administration officials, including the Pentagon's then-general counsel William "Jim" Haynes, sought information on a program involving military psychologists early on to devise the more aggressive methods which included the use of dogs, making a detainee stand for long periods of time and forced nudity, according to officials familiar with the findings.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the information has not been formally released. Details, including the names of the service lawyers who objected to the interrogation techniques, were to be discussed at an open committee hearing Tuesday.

Rumsfeld's December 2002 approval of the aggressive interrogation techniques and later objections by military lawyers have been widely reported. But the November protests by service lawyers had not, and the interest by Pentagon civilians in military psychologists has surfaced only piecemeal.









This is what Philippe Sands was talking about at the hearing

There seems to be a direct connection between torture at Guantanamo and the beginning of 24

Individuals were watching and influenced by the TV program 24

TV show had many friends at Guantanamo.

Three weeks after the beginning of 2nd season of 24 the torture began.


Philippe Sands

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUICm1VH-rQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j38GxxE2CBY


The Green Light: Attorney Philippe Sands Follows the Bush Administration Torture Trail

A new expos in Vanity Fair by British attorney Philippe Sands reveals new details about how attorney John Yoo and other high-ranking administration lawyers helped design and implement the interrogation policies seen at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and secret CIA prisons. According to Vanity Fair, then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and other top officials personally visited Guantanamo in 2002, discussed interrogation techniques and witnessed interrogations. Sands joins us in our firehouse studio.





Philippe Sands: Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPAGNNsrwUw



Jimmy Carter: Talks George Bush & war crimes at Hay Festival
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWBY2hO6vA

When pressed by Philippe Sands...on Bush's recent admission that he had authorized interrogation procedures widely seen as amounting to torture, Carter replied that he was sure Bush would be able to live a peaceful, 'productive life - in our country'" after he leaves the White House. Sands later said that he had "understood that to be 'clear confirmation' that, while Bush would face no challenge in his own country, 'what happened outside the country was another matter entirely.'


Phillipe Sands Discusses Torture and U.S. Policy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S6IU755uFM

On Bill Moyers Journal, human rights lawyer Phillipe Sands discusses his new book on how the U.S. came to abandon the Geneva Convention and accept torture. Sands says Bush administration officials are unwilling to accept responsibility for their actions.



Rep. Mike Pence: Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTla3-JZhnM

Philippe Sands attempts to enlighten Rep. Pence as to why torture is wrong during his appearance before the House Judiciary Constitution, Civil Rights & Civil Liberties Subcmte. hearing on Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules


Rep.John Conyers: Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFLCNypjK6k

Philippe Sands responds to Rep. Conyers question as to what avenues of inquiry the committee should undertake and expounds upon his testimony before the House Judiciary Constitution, Civil Rights & Civil Liberties Subcmte. hearing on Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules.



Addington was the leader of the pack, went to Guantanamo himself




Rep.Artur Davis: Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sst5vMpOFx4

David Rivkin tries to claim that the IRA was a different threat but Rep.Davis throws his flawed logic back in his face. Philippe Sands also pointedly rebukes Rivkin assertions. Discussion of Presidental pardons to exonerate torture policies employed is hypothetically touched on. From hearing by House Judiciary Constitution, Civil Rights & Civil Liberties Subcmte. on Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules.



Rep.Issa & Rep.Ellison: Guantanamo Bay Interrogation Rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKZ5WaTWdA

Philippe Sands responds to the slick and sly Rep.Issa and details his thoughts further upon question by Rep. Ellison during hearing by House Judiciary Constitution, Civil Rights & Civil Liberties Subcmte. on Guantanamo Bay and Interrogation Rules.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. A-Fucking-Men
Praise Bob!
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
63. it's called - reclaiming credibility.
because as of today, the US is dogshit hypocrites in the eyes of the world.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #63
89. You mean they think that good of us. figured our reputation was a lot lower than that.
about the same as gods reputation to a maltheist like me.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
64. This is a great day.
That's one small exercise for an institution, one giant leap for jurisprudence.



"This is not intended to be a mere discussion of violations of law that have occurred," said convener Lawrence Velvel, dean and cofounder of the school. "It is, rather, intended to be a planning conference at which plans will be laid and necessary organizational structures set up, to pursue the guilty as long as necessary and, if need be, to the ends of the Earth."

"We must try to hold Bush administration leaders accountable in courts of justice," Velvel said. "And we must insist on appropriate punishments, including, if guilt is found, the hangings visited upon top German and Japanese war-criminals in the 1940s."




When that day comes, Justice will have been served.
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Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
65. I think it will just push Martial Law sooner.
I hate to be a downer, after all, it sounds like good news on the surface, but I've been reading
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm
and I'm thinking it's all pretty scary. If he feels threatened, he will act out sooner IMO.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
66. The Civil war continues you will see more and more of this
due to the inaction of the government the people and states will have to start acting
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
68. Accountability is treason tothis administration. Profiteering traitors will use Blackwater as mercs.
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OutNow Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. War Crimes Trials - the French Resistance and the Vichy Regime
The comments elicited by this post are amazing. You can feel the hatred of the Bush crime family and what they have done to our country. I certainly agree with a war crimes trail for the lot of them.

But when many people think of war crimes trails they use the Nuremberg model; conducted by one or more countries (usually the winner in the war) against people from another country (usually the loser in the war).

I think there is a better example based on the French Resistance's treatment of the Vichy regime beginning in 1944. There, people had war crimes trials of their own citizens and applied justice.

I personally would hold W's head down to allow Cindy Sheehan to shave it.

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #70
91. Shave his balls and dunk 'em in witch hazel
Sorry, the pacifist in me often takes a holiday. It's a quote by Dana Carvey spoofing H. Ross Perot, btw.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
74. This guy's been paying attention.
Glad somebody has. :thumbsup:
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
75. Re: "including, if guilt is found, the hangings..."
I'll be happy to buy the rope.

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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
77. K and R
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
79. kick
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
80. Beyond Awesome...it's about time! K&R n/t
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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
82. I've always been opposed to capital punishment myself, but...
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
83. Makes my day!...n/t
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
84. This needs to happen. K&R
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
85. It bothers me when treason goes unpunished.
If there are enough efforts like this one we will surely hit pay dirt. We have witnessed eight years of criminal acts from our "leaders". It will be payback time. Too many of us are too mad to just let these crooks go out and earn million-dollar speaking fees as their only punishment.

We on DU (including me) throw around words like "criminal" and traitor" all the time, but I believe in my heart that bush truly is both a criminal and a traitor. I also believe he should be punished accordingly.

Who does this jerk bush think he is, anyway? An ignorant, ex-drunk popinjay who has repeatedly violated US and international law with impunity, that's who. There are people in jail for traffic offenses. We should reserve much worse punishment for the craven, vile offenders we have been meekly putting up with all this time.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
92. SUNDAY! SUNDAY! LIVE! LIVE!
NEVER BEFORE SEEN BY AN AMERICAN AUDIENCE-WAR CRIMES TRIAL OF US OFFICIALS.
NOT HBO, NOT ABC-ONLY ON PAY PER VIEW.
YOUR FAVORITE CAST OF WAR CRIMINALS GEORGE 'CHIMPY' BUSH, DICK 'DARTH VADER' CHENEY AND A HOST OF OTHER WAR CRIMINALS THAT WILL YOU KEEP YOU ON THE EDGE OF YOUR SEAT!!!!!!
SUNDAY! SUNDAY! LIVE ! LIVE! ONLY ON PAY PER VIEW.
I am so there, money well spent.
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The Blue Flower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
93. Visualize justice being served
The visual of a trial followed by hangings is the most satisfying imaginable. They deserve it fully as much as the Nazi war criminals did. Maybe we should do a group visualization to facilitate it happening.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
95. REC #125. "if guilt is found" LOL We all know the truth, the world knows the truth!!
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
96. Why I think hanging is too good for them.
Sociopaths have no empathy. No argument based on a respect for humanity can suffice to constrain their id. Only that which creates pain and horror at the prospect of some punishment occuring to *them* can thus affect them.

Six in one hundred humans suffer from such a disorder to one degree or another, as I understand it.

The actual purpose behind medieval criminology, that is, ritualized terror directed at the human body was, in my opinion to discourage those -for whom social and religious strictures were inadequate- with the prospect of unendurable pain. Even sociopaths understand that, indeed perhaps better than anyone.

Healthy humans do not giggle about putting someone to death, nor do they insist on using Willy Pete on a town. 21st century has proved more adept at inhumane behavior than our predecessors, and more technologically capable of inducing horror on innocents. Those who are willing to use technology and the prestige of a nation-state to increase the level of human misery of a whole society for personal gain deserve none of modernity's moiety.

I'd be okay with an exception to the whole 8th amendment cruel and unusual amendment for those who start wars of aggression and/or use specific types of weaponry on a populace. Such things as depleted uranium, white phosphorus, napalm, cluster bombs, torture, etc.

So jail the underlings, sentence them to daily waterboardings for their term of imprisonment. And afterwards deport them to Iraq and deprive them of citizenship, so that they are subject to being beyond the protection of the constitution. (this last was considered worse than torture, and was found previously unconstitutional punishment)

But as in Nuremberg, hang those who promulgated such policies so that their horrible deaths may instruct the next generation of little sociopaths.

I think it would also have the effect of reducing blowback from those whom we invaded, incinerated, and tortured.


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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
97. Glad to hear it !! /nt
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penndragon69 Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-17-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
98. I'd say....Chain gang.
Black and white stripes, chains running from end to end and 20+ hours of
hard labor a day.

I'd love to see that freak show anywhere in the world!

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