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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:20 PM
Original message
Hilly Bob Clinton's "Slingblade" Performance in Selma Yesterday
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 09:03 PM by CorpGovActivist
"I like them French fried potaters," Billy Bob Thornton grunted in Slingblade: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117666/quotes

Ever since I heard her painful attempt to do justice to that hymn yesterday afternoon, I've been trying to remember what the hell it reminded me of. A short while ago, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Slingblade. Billy Bob Thornton.

"Reckon you make me some biscuits," Billy Bob's character muttered.

If Hillary had been reported to have said the same thing at supper after church yesterday, I wouldn't have been surprised.

Her policy stances - for the most part - endear her to me. She has a smart, capable staff on the Hill.

But this cornball schtick offends. For those who are saying the right wing is predictable for making fun of her, I say: nobody on the right wing could have predicted her staff would ever let her get past the first rehearsal of this speech - assuming, of course, that even a single member grew up in the South. (Carville doesn't count; for "cornball," he's tone deaf.)

"Coffee makes me nervous when I drink it. Mmm," said Billy Bob.

Not as nervous as Hillary's forays south of the Mason-Dixon ought to make Democrats with one eye on the Electoral College tally for 08. As this interactive map shows, the Electoral College shift after 00 already makes the math harder for the Democratic nominee:

http://www.270towin.com/ (view 2000, 2004, and 2008, and note the "make your own winning combo" features)

I really, really, really like Hillary's policy stances. But the carpetbagger fauxcent has got to go. If the event or venue demands a Southern accent, let Bill go.

- Dave

P.S. Jackie would *never* have done that, and neither would've Jack. When they came to rural, Appalachian, and Southern America, they were themselves. Anything else is inauthentic. As a Senator from the Northeast, Hillary probably wants to be more JFK, less Slingblade.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Naahhh.... Billy Bob's Southern accent is way more authentic.
Might be because he's actually from the South, though.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Agreed, and Appropriate for the Role...
... which is sort of my point.

- Dave
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. A surprising lack of research from the guy bringing down Halliburton
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Howso?
I realize her heart was likely in the right place quoting those words from the hymnal.

But the accent? Was that necessary?

- Dave
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. What did she do?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Did You See the Speech She Gave?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hillary+selma

When she got to the quote from the hymn, she launched into a pretty awful accent.

- Dave
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:34 PM
Original message
No, I didn't see it. Unfortunately, your link doesn't have that part...
Wish I could hear it - sounds awful. I always think it's nice to identify with one's audience, and to let them know that you have some knowledge of their culture, but one should never fake their accent unless you can say "so and so (and "so and so" needs to be someone with respect in the community) taught me today how to say this phrase properly...."

How sad she faked an accent that way.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. I Think Her Heart Was in the Right Place...
... I really do.

But the execution was pretty horrendous.

- Dave
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. Hillary says the same thing every time she goes to a black church..
and I shout Amen Hill!, every time she does it.

I don't feel no ways tired..I come to far to turn back now... :rofl:
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. yawn
really now... speaking to a Southern audience, quoting an old spiritual, she should sound like what?

This is shaping up to be a FUN campaign season - DUers are determined to out-do the right wing when it comes to nonsensical, meaningless complaints.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I Want to See Her Do Well...
... and it's not dragging her (or any other Dem candidate) down to give honest feedback.

- Dave
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Ever hear
Bill Clinton or Al Gore speak to a black church crowd?

This is a nonsensical, stupid Drudge-based attack, and needn't be copied here.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. May I Ask Where You Grew up?
I grew up in Southern WV, where JFK was supposed to meet his Waterloo, but didn't.

Why?

Because he and his surrogates were authentic when they spoke to the crowds, and won over skeptics like my two grandfathers, who barely had 12 years of schooling between them.

- Dave
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. ok
so if the crowd there thought she was inauthentic, then they may not vote for her.

But why draw attention to it and make a big deal of it? To hurt her?

She may well be the nominee. Why play along with Drudge and his ilk? Do you really think doing this will help <insert candidate here>?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. RFK Might Say Because If Someone Doesn't Tell Her from within the Party...
... she'll do it again and again in other rural, Southern, and Appalachian venues.

"Every dictatorship has ultimately strangled in the web of repression it wove for its people, making mistakes that could not be corrected because criticism was prohibited."

"Value of Dissent" speech Nashville, Tennessee (21 March 1968)

Campaign inner circles are not poltiburos.

- Dave
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. oh yay!
random quotes!

You wanna spend time tearing down republicans, I'm right behind you. Hell, I'm in front of you.

Wanna rip apart Dems? Nah... you're doing somebody else's bidding.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. No, I'm Airing an Honest Concern
I am glad Hillary's in the race. I have appreciated the advice and guidance her staff has given me.

And it is not "tearing down" a candidate to give an honest reaction to his/her performance.

- Dave

P.S. The RFK quote was not random, either. Any system that closes off honest dissent and criticism - whether a government or a campaign - is going to miss out on the benefits of that feedback loop.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. sorry...
but I think jumping on a Drudge article bitching about what accent somebody used while quoting a negro spiritual is less-than-sincere.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. I Haven't READ the Drudge Article
I reacted, live, with my own ear. I listened all the way through - live - to both speeches.

My reaction to her use of the fauxcent was my own, and devoid of any input from the talking heads.

- Dave
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. When did you watch it?
When did you post this?

Why do you care?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. I Watched It Live, Yesterday...
... as is my wont on Sundays, I watched my favorite morning talk shows.

My degree is in Government. I'm a policy geek. I've been doing this weekly Sunday viewing/newspaper reading for decades now.

I watched both the Obama and the Clinton speeches live.

"When did you post this?"

The timestamp of the OP will answer your question. Why the delay? Because as I said, ever since she uttered the first contrived syllable in that well-intentioned, but poorly-executed accent, I've been mulling over who she reminded me of. If it bothered me (someone who ***will*** vote for her if she is the nominee) this much, I'm guessing it really rubbed cultural Southerners less inclined to stick with her the wrong way. So, I've given voice to this concern.

"Why do you care?"

Because I'd really like to see a Democrat in the White House, come January 20, 2009.

Wouldn't you?

Now, I don't mind debating a difference of opinion with you - in a civil and cordial fashion.

But my opinion - formed while actually listening to the speech - is every bit as valid as yours.

Before you accuse me of being ill-intentioned for raising the concerns I raised, I'd ask you to ask yourself one question: did a wicked grin cross Karl Rove's face when he listened to her speech?

If you think the answer is "yes," then I'd say it's fair to say that someone in the campaign needs to ensure that this was a one-off instance.

- Dave
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. I think
karl Rove got a big grin when Drudge ran the so-called story.

Amd he came when he saw DUers run with it.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. I Still Haven't Read the Drudge Story
But I did watch the speech live (the whole way through), and formed my own opinion about it, live.

I tuned in as someone eager to hear what she had to say. I tuned in as someone who ***will*** vote for her, if she is the nominee.

If someone who approached the speech from that mindset was so jarred by the style over substance issue, it's only natural that GOP operatives would seize upon it.

That's the point: if her campaign staff tell her, "Great job! No problems whatsoever!" - this sort of thing might become a fixture of her stump speech throughout the cultural South. If, instead, they say, "Here's what worked, and here's what didn't," then this will be a short-lived blip that nobody will even remember come the convention or the general election, assuming she is the nominee.

- Dave
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #60
75. Relax, dude,
people are talking about it. I doubt Karl Rove reads DU.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. And Thinking about It...
... from the moment I watched it live, until the grey matter spat out, "OMG! She sounded like Billy Bob in Slingblade! *THAT'S* what it reminded me of!" - I was mulling it over, trying to give voice to why it bugged me.

It's not a fatal blow, not a Dean Scream, but it shouldn't be repeated, or her support among Southern/rural/Appalachian swing voters will die a death of a thousand little cuts (by her own slingblade, one might say).

- Dave
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Good politicians pander
in a way where you can't see the strings, or the duct tape behind the scenery. This was pandering that was so obvious that a child would burst out laughing.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
66. It was not just when quoting that song.
That would have been almost understandable. But for the rest of her performance, she continued this mock (mocking?) hillbilly accent that only a nasal midwesterner could put on - it was horrendous, and it will hurt her. She might as well have addressed a gay group with an obvious, affected lithp.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. It Wasn't the "Dean Scream," by a Long Shot, But...
... someone on her campaign staff needs to help her come up with a better way of connecting with rural, Southern, and Appalachian audiences.

"she continued this mock (mocking?) hillbilly accent that only a nasal midwesterner could put on"

I think she would have gotten a chuckle from the audience - and come across as much more authentic - if she'd prefaced reading the excerpt by saying, "Now ya'll know I talk funny," deadpanned in her natural accent, (pause for the inevitable laughter), "so I'm not going to try to read this like in its native tongue, but - please listen carefully to the words, because they speak to something important to all of us, no matter where we live in this great country of ours."

- Dave
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. And it's a valid concern.
I'm Southern and heard her spiel first thing when I turned on the radio in the car on the way to work this morning: no context, no explanation, just something that, to me, sound like bigoted nails on an Appalachian chalkboard.

I didn't appreciate it.

Of course, now I know what the context is - but you can bet hundreds of thousands of other Southerners just thought she was making fun of them. And, yes, there are a goodly number of Southerners who vote Democratic or swing vote that way when they're fed up with the Republicans. HRC's husband, afterall, won most of the South not that long ago - so it's not like the South is a lost cause.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I Watched the Whole Thing, Live, and Even with the Context...
... it was jarring to the ear.

If Hillary's campaign had forward-facing cameras (as any campaign worth its salt does nowadays), I think they'll see some winces, stifled smiles, and sudden covering of faces with fans and programs by many in the congregation.

That reaction - if shown on the tape - should be shown to her, honestly and forthrightly.

I formed my opinion live, while watching, without a single talking head telling me that it was a faux pas.

You're absolutely right: the South contains many swing voters, and there is no need to lose any of those swing voters out of a misunderstanding.

- Dave
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. yeah
that hit me wrong too...
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. The Words She Quoted Were Powerful...
... made less so, and less effective in the final analysis, by overshadowing them with the fauxcent.

- Dave
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Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Your not the only one offended.
I think she'll regret it.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. That's a nasty comparison.
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 08:26 PM by Pirate Smile
When my husband wants to freak me out he starts doing the Sling Blade impersonation - "uuuuuhhh huuuuuhhh".

Eeeekkk!!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. When It Finally Clicked in My Own Head...
... I groaned. Literally, for more than 24 hours, it's been bugging me.

"I know that section of her speech reminded me of something. What is it?!?"

When the grey matter finally spat out the answer this evening after dinner, I groaned.

And then I laughed at the absurdity of the thought of SNL doing a Hillary meets Billy Bob.

- Dave
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. This feigned accent thing she is doing is turning off people by the droves.
It's also insulting to Southerners and to African-Americans.
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. What about Obama's sudden Southern accent yesterday?
and, unlike Hillary, he's never even lived in the South.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Better Accent Coach, Maybe?
If you're a Friends fan, maybe you'll remember the episode where Joey adds a new accent to his resume, and then gives his pals a sample.

The Tribiani accent coach should be fired from the Clinton Campaign.

- Dave
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. *crickets*
I've always wanted to type that. :)

I was going to ask the same thing regarding Obama, why isn't he being criticized and he never lived in the south yet Hillary did and she's the one that gets the criticism. :eyes:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. When a Foreign Actor/Actress Masters an Accent...
... it makes their performance all that much more appealing, Oscar-worthy, etc.

But when they blow it...

I think that may be the distinction. Obama may not have nailed the performance, but it was within tolerable bounds.

Part of what I found so jarring about Hillary's segue into that accent was its incongruity with the rest of the speech. By contrast, Obama picked an oratory style, and stuck with it throughout.

I would readily concede that this is a "style over substance" topic, except for one thing: her "style" during that segment of her speech overshadowed the "substance" of that segment of her speech.

- Dave
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Imo, Hillary is not very good when she gives her speeches.
Especially when she raises her voice above the crowd. I can't stand it. That is the only thing that I don't like about her. But if she won the nomination, I'd still vote for her.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I'd Vote for Her Too...
... but the Electoral College map dictates that she do an exponentially better job at speaking to Southern, rural, and Appalachian audiences.

- Dave
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. It was cringe-inducing. n/t
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. For Those Who Like Her, Especially...
... and I want to make sure that it's clear that I am delighted Hillary is in the race.

But she has got to have people on her staff who can say, "Nuh-uh. That doesn't work."

- Dave
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. LOL! You're right.
She should hire me!
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Agreed.
I actually felt myself cringing. What an awkward moment.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. You forgot to call her "feral" like Maureen Dowd did. nt
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Now I Have to Go Read Dowd...
... thanks for the heads-up.

- Dave

P.S. Honest criticism of the candidates is a good thing, I think. It makes them better at connecting (e.g., remember Kerry's concession speech and later remarks about learning to connect with people better).
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Every time I spend a few decades in Arkansas, I lose some of my Mississippi accent.


But it always returns when I cross back over the river. Kinda depends whose talking I've been hearing.









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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Get Me on the Phone with My Grandmother (Maw Maw)...
... for about an hour, and it takes me two days to recover (my college roommates used to have a great deal of fun with this).

:rofl:

So I do understand that - for those who grew up around a regional accent - it's easy to revert to it.

Frankly, I think her Midwestern accent has a charm all its own, and I think she'd do well to poke fun of how she "talks funny" when speaking to Southern crowds. That they would identify with, since they're usually the ones accused of having an accent.

- Dave
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hillary Diane just isn't a Billy Bob. Even if she were "Hill Di" ...
Edited on Mon Mar-05-07 08:39 PM by TahitiNut
... it just doesn't roll off the tongue like "Sue Ellen" or "Annie Mae." Hell ... is it any wonder that Anna Nicole gets the press?

:shrug:

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. Hilly Bob Thornton
OMG...that could be the title of the SNL skit.

:rofl:

- Dave
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. I couldn't listen any more.
Glad you put some words to it, because it was really..... irritating.

I will have to disagree with you about policy stances... I think this inauthenticity is part and parcel.

That's the way I see it, and I'm sticking to it. :hi:

Now I'll rinse my mouth out and go listen to Al Sharpton... :)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. I Listened to Both Speeches All the Way Through...
... but after she got to that point, at least half the brain cells in my head were paying less attention to what she was saying, and more attention to trying to figure out who she reminded me of.

Hand on the Bible, the other hand to God, the word "Slingblade" popped into my head this evening after dinner.

You know how it is when the answer dances just on the tip of your mind? Usually it occurs to me at 3 in the morning or some such.

; )

- Dave
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. As Bob Dylan said...
Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)

Bob Dylan
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. Thanks for the Reminder...
... and I wonder if maybe the three leading declared candidates (Clinton, Edwards, Obama, in alpha order) might have a moment of clarity if they each were confronted with that quote - or the whole song - on the campaign trail?

- Dave
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Do you see the same thing with Edwards?
I didn't follow him closely in '04, because I was heavily involved in another campaign.

But, I gotta say..... I see so much authenticity and just down-to-earth honesty with his speeches as of late.

Yeah, yeah, I know....he's a politician, and they can't help themselves. ~~chortle~~ But, still, there's something just very TRUEabout him.

Not being southern, the accent kinda grates on me.. but otherwise, I just don't see any of that "for show" stuff.

What about you?
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. It was a Wingnut Slime Attempt, and some bought it hook, line, sinker:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/03/yet_another_win.php

The Drudge headline links to this audio of Hillary speaking yesterday. If you listen to it, the main thing you'll hear is Hillary speaking in a southern drawl, saying phrases that sound like her own words:

"I don't feel no ways tired..I come too far from where I started from...Nobody told me that the road would be easy...I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me."

As you can see, this clip makes it sound like Hillary is adopting not just this drawl, but this language and this down-home grammar, as her own. The righties have been waving this around to prove what a phony Hillary is. This audio was promoted by, among others, PowerlineBlog, Free Republic, Instapundit, and Fox News, which linked to it under the headline, "Will the real Hillary please speak up?"

But as always, a simple fact-check shows this latest wingnut preoccupation to be highly dishonest. The audio clip Drudge linked to cherry-picked that quote and removed it completely from its context, which would have shown that Hillary wasn't adopting this accent or grammar or language as her own at all.

Rather, it turns out that Hillary was actually quoting the hymn lyrics of someone else -- while clearly and very openly imitating (not very well, it turns out) the cadences she thought the lyrics would traditionally have been delivered in. There was nothing phony about it at all. Watch for yourself:

video

Here's a transcript of the passage in question:

" My friends, we have a march to finish. I will be reintroducing the Count Every Vote Act, to ensure that every voter is given the opportunity to vote, that every vote is counted, and each voter is given the chance to verify his or her vote before it is cast and made permanent.

We have to stay awake. We have a march to finish. On this Lord's day, let us say with one voice the words of James Cleveland's great freedom hymn, "I don't feel no ways tired/I come too far from where I started from/Nobody told me that the road would be easy/I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me."

And we know -- we know -- we know, if we finish this march, what awaits us? St. Paul told us, in the letter to the Galatians, "Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due seasons we shall reap, if we do not lose heart."
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. I Watched the Whole Speech, Live, and That Part Arrested My Attention...
... for all the wrong reasons.

I didn't buy into right wing spinmeistering.

Rather, I reacted - personally and viscerally - with my own free will and my own ear, and with a great deal of empathy and compassion for what she was *trying* to convey.

"Oh, no," I groaned, live, to the TV set. "How could her campaign staff let her do that?!?"

One sentence in to her quote, I was more fixated on who the fauxcent reminded me of (and "Slingblade" popped out of my head this evening) than I was on the content of what she was quoting.

It is hardly surprising that those right wing outlets had the field day they've had.

The good news? It's not likely to be a defining, make-or-break moment. In all likelihood, she'll get a "pass" on this.

The better news? There are people unafraid to tell her like it is.

"Don't ever do that again" should be the lesson learned.

- Dave
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. I didn't consult "drudge" first, nor any "wingnuts"
I felt it when I watched her speech, so your accusation doesn't fit for me.

I "bought" nothing... I came to the conclusion all by my lonesome.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Bingo! My Reaction Was Live
I'm perfectly capable of making my own judgments and drawing my own conclusions about a speech, without having to be told how to feel about it.

Otherwise, I wouldn't watch the State of the Union, the presidential debates, etc. live.

I'd just wait for the pundit(s) I like to tell me how to feel.

Oh, wait. Then I'd be a dittohead.

:rofl:

What gives with this attitude that anyone who didn't cotton to that section of the speech has been brainwashed by a wingnut?

- Dave
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I just had my brainwashed, and now I can't do a damned thing with it!
Ohhh, fudge!

Orrr..... drudge....

PPPpffffffttttt!!

~~gigglesnort~~
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Bronyraurus Donating Member (871 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
76. No way
she continued with the accent when she started talking about Mayor Palmer from Trenton. Was that part of the hymn?
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. She's got some nerve, huh? Before she attempts a southern accent...
... she ought to spend some time actually living in the south!!!!!11

:eyes:



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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. LO! Just be thankful she didn't SING the hymn....
:scared:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. I Gave Her a 100% "Pass" on the National Anthem...
I'd cringe to see/hear a playback of *my* rendition of that!

; )

- Dave
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
54. If you pay just a little more attention to her
I'm sure you'll find PLENTY that offends you. In the meantime, you're excused: you've had your hands a little full.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-05-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. As the Campaign Season Continues, I'm Sure I'll Have Nits to Pick with Each Candidate...
... this just happened to be the first one that arrested my attention.

If I hadn't seen it live, in context, I'd have mistrusted the echo chamber. But the OP is the result of my own personal reaction.

"I'm sure you'll find PLENTY that offends you."

Time will tell.

"In the meantime, you're excused: you've had your hands a little full."

That, I have. Thanks!

; )

- Dave
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
61. Hillary as Zelig?
will she affect a brogue with Irish-Americans?
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. He he. Zelig
I wonder if she'll affect the "Fargo" accent when she comes here to Minnesota. Ooooh, ja, dontcha know.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
62. All right, then. n/t

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
63. She lived in Arkansas for 17 years
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 10:02 AM by librechik
I think we can call that a legitimate Southern twang. And as any English major knows, a person with a facility for languages will unconsciously start to adopt the idiom/accent of his audience--it's involuntary, Your brain just does it.You have to work hard to overcome those automatic behaviors and speak without the accent. Hillary probably felt comfortable enough to just talk like she does normally when she's down South. Little did she know that the jackals would pounce.


She should have known.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. I Speak Spanish, German, Russian, and Appalachian...
... so I nodded my head vigorously when I read:

"And as any English major knows, a person with a facility for languages will unconsciously start to adopt the idiom/accent of his audience--it's involuntary, Your brain just does it."

I wholeheartedly agree with your point. But if you've watched the speech, it was a not a reflexive act; rather, she deliberately switched gears when she got to that part of her speech.

The principal's daughter in my high school had a thick WV accent. I had Spanish class with her.

To this day, I can still hear her say, "Yo HHHablo moo-ee bEEN in espanYOL."

And she believed it, too.

- Dave
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
64. link to the speech?
I'd like to see it, thanks.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. YouTube Has Various Clippings of It
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hillary+selma

I want to emphasize that I watched it live, from start to finish. My reaction was formed before any of the punditry started weighing in (though I'm sure they were furiously scribbling notes for when they were asked for comment).

- Dave
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
65. I'm wondering if the people in the audience noticed anything...
I've lived in that part of the state and most would not have considered her to have an accent at all. At best, she sounded half & half...as did Obama. By that I mean, people who have moved from one area to another and fall back into a way of speaking , "when they (really) go home"

Hillary has lived in a southern state a long time and has been to Selma before.



This is not new.....people complain and slime (her) regardless of how she speaks.



Saying she tried to speak Southern and did it badly.....That was all over right wing sites and the MSM who live to bash a democrat or democrats.

Saying she sounded like a mentally challenged, uneducated murderer is a little much.
However, now that you have brought it up, you can be certain it will be heard and seen again. "They" love it when we damn our own AND "they" also make it crystal clear "they" got the bile from DU.



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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. Great Question
In an earlier response, I suggested that the campaign staff should pull the footage of every forward-facing camera, to study the reaction of the audience.

"I've lived in that part of the state and most would not have considered her to have an accent at all. At best, she sounded half & half...as did Obama."

No, there was a point in the speech where she very pointedly and very decidedly adopted an accent (when she read the words of the hymn). Up until that point in the speech, I'd absolutely not even paid attention to her tossed-in Southern inflections.

"Saying she sounded like a mentally challenged, uneducated murderer is a little much."

The difference is: the accent was integral to Thornton's portrayal, and was part and parcel of the character he portrayed; it was not integral to the delivery of her point.

"However, now that you have brought it up, you can be certain it will be heard and seen again."

Not from the candidate herself, I hope. I assume she's paying great money to her top campaign advisors - not to stroke her ego, but to tell her what is and isn't working.

- Dave
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
88. "Saying she sounded like a mentally challenged, uneducated murderer is a little much."
Now THAT is a bit of a stretch - it was a comparison to a character in a movie, and the OP said nothing at all like that.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Please explain how this is not a comparison,
From OP
"Ever since I heard her painful attempt to do justice to that hymn yesterday afternoon, I've been trying to remember what the hell it reminded me of. A short while ago, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Slingblade. Billy Bob Thornton.

"Reckon you make me some biscuits," Billy Bob's character muttered.

If Hillary had been reported to have said the same thing at supper after church yesterday, I wouldn't have been surprised."
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. It is a comparison - of a movie character
not a murderer.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
71. Here's what really bugs me about this thread - a lot of people
here are buying into the notion that the candidate has to be packaged for public consumption. Look how many people up thread talked about how her campaign staff needs to fine tune her presentation.

Back in 1960, JFK used polling to discover that he needed to address the issue of his religion, so he went out and did so. Once religion was out of the way, he was back to addressing where he wanted to take the country. I don't recall that he did polling to determine where he should part his hair or what color tie to wear.

I have no idea if Hillary's use of a regional accent was accidental or deliberate. The fact that so many here are judging it as a tactic shows that we are judging our candidates as an artificial construct by committee rather than as authentic persons.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Did You Watch the Speech?
"I have no idea if Hillary's use of a regional accent was accidental or deliberate."

The portion that got so much airplay afterwards - and the portion that "stuck in my craw" while watching live on Sunday - was about as stage-directed a segue as I've ever seen in a speech.

It would be very difficult for anyone to argue that the gear switch wasn't deliberate. If the speech had been a car, the transmission would have fallen out.

"Back in 1960, JFK used polling to discover that he needed to address the issue of his religion, so he went out and did so. Once religion was out of the way, he was back to addressing where he wanted to take the country. I don't recall that he did polling to determine where he should part his hair or what color tie to wear."

If you recall, those who listened to the debates on radio thought Nixon had done the better job. Those who watched on TV thought Kennedy did. Style began to gain ground on substance in that election.

Moreover, when he got back to "addressing where he wanted to take the country," he did so in his own voice and his own accent - no matter where he happened to be speaking. If he'd tried to feign a Southern or Appalachian accent in the WV primary, the pundits would've been right: that would've probably been the end right there.

The most important person not to buy into that pre-packaging notion?

The candidate.

- Dave
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #74
84. I agree absolutely
If the candidate doesn't believe he or she is good enough to be President, why should the rest of us. We should be voting for a person, not a PR team.

I was just pointing out that regardless of what happened during Hillary's speech, many here have bought into the idea that everything about presidential campaigns is as artificial and fine tuned as the latest campaign to sell potato chips!

On the other hand, if a candidate consistently packages himself/herself the way you'd package potato chips, changing like a chameleon to suit each individual audieunce.....
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. I did listen to the section of the speech under discussion
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 01:09 PM by hedgehog
The section where she quoted the hymn is pretty bad. It reminds me of the way some hymnals print African-American spirituals. Copying the dialect may be authentic, but there is nothing weirder or goofier than being with a bunch of white people attempting to sing in a supposed African-American dialect.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #71
87. That's exactly the point - she is NOT an authentic person.
Her defenders are always telling us that she's veering to the right to win votes, but she doesn't really believe in <insert issue here - the Iraq war, criminalizing flag-burning, banning gay marriage, invading Iran>. If she were an authentic person who spoke from core beliefs instead of pandering we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
73. Update from TPM
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 11:54 AM by AnnInLa
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/03/behold_your_med.php

Incredible. CNN's Paula Zahn, MSNBC's Chris Matthews, and ABC News have now covered the Hillary "drawl" story that Matt Drudge pushed yesterday. And guess how many of the shows shared with their viewers the simple context that would have shown the story to be bogus? Exactly zero.

It's almost as if these big news orgs are looking to Drudge as their de facto assignment editor. Channeling Mark Halperin, It's almost as if their motto could be:

Matt Drudge Rules Our World -- Because We Let Him.

As detailed here yesterday, Drudge and the winger shock troops were out in full force yesterday pushing an audiotape of Hillary adopting a southern drawl in Alabama, something which allegedly proved what a phony Hillary is. But a simple fact check quickly revealed that this audio plucked Hillary's "drawl" quote out of context, making it look as if she'd adopted the language, hokey accent and down-home grammar as her own, when in fact she was quoting a hymn written by someone else.

Coversation between Paula Zahn and John Roberts:

ZAHN: Out in the open next: a pair of Yankees with Southern accents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't tell me I'm not coming home when I come to Selma, Alabama.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I don't feel no ways tired.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: I come too far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Not only does running for president seem to change the voice we have become accustomed to. It might even change your clothes -- coming up, even more proof it is a crazy campaign out there already....

ROBERTS: But -- but, you see, Hillary, the knock on her is that she's so scripted, that -- that she's pandering to her constituency. And, when she goes to a place like Selma, Alabama, and she effects a Southern accent, even if it was unintentional -- maybe she just got caught up in the moment -- it -- it adds more fuel to this idea that everything that she does is plotted, and a lot that she does is pandering to a particular audience.

"Yankee" Hillary spent many years in Arkansas -- but who's counting? And note Roberts' hapless floundering, too -- his assertion that perhaps this was "unintentional" reveals very clearly that he only listened to the audio cherry-picked by Drudge, and never bothered to compare it to the whole speech. Matt Drudge rules our world -- because we let him.


Hardball:


Later in the program, another guest tried to explain the context, but Matthews cut her off.

And finally, ABC News. During Good Morning America's coverage of the Dems' visit to Alabama yesterday, correspondent Jake Tapper observed (via Nexis) that Hillary "adopted a curious southern drawl during her speech." As Media Matters notes, Tapper later wrote on his blog both that Hillary lived for a long time in Arkansas and that in fact Hillary was quoting someone else. According to Nexis and Media Matters, neither of these facts was mentioned by Tapper on Good Morning America, which of course is seen by far more eyeballs than Tapper's blog is.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Drudge Had ZERO Impact on My Opinion, Formed Live, While Watching...
... just as the media had ZERO impact when I watched any number of past years' campaign events, live.

Just because Drudge seized on it, doesn't mean it's not a meme worth exploring, or a habit worth breaking the candidate of, early in the campaign...

- Dave
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
81. But , but, she worked so hard to get rid of that
accent.. I mean who would take her seriously with a southern draw? :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. Oh goody this one again!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
83. If there really was a grammar police, they would nail you for "fauxcent"& shoot you with a throwdown
Of course the real grammar police would not engage in police brutality, but even the best cop has his limits.
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-06-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
86. the problem is not Hill's accent, it's a southern attitude problem. they look for reasons to
Edited on Tue Mar-06-07 01:54 PM by HardRocker05
criticise and hate anybody who isn't a member of their little clan or anything that's different than 'the way it's always been done.' they demand that people kiss their butts continuously, or they will punish them ruthlessly. i'm sorry, the south has got some serious problems, and whenever i hear somebody complaining that southerners aren't being given the proper respect i can't really take it seriously because i've heard that song too many times. here's a clue to the south: if you want to get respect, you have to give it.
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