Cheney's blood clots - is there such a thing as a "mild" deep-vein thrombosis?

[meldroc]

If you check the news, you'll see the major media outlets talking about Dick Cheney's blood clot in his leg, also known as a deep vein thrombosis. The news outlets are saying it's no big deal, that it was treated by his doctors, and that he's already left the hospital and went back to work.

I'm calling bullshit. Thrombosis is not something to be taken lightly. Even a small vein clot is Bad. If that clot breaks loose, it can travel down the veins, and end up in the blood supply to something important, like the heart, lungs or brain. When that happens, the result is a heart attack, stroke or pulmonary embolism, which can be fatal very quickly. Some DU members, like shireen, have expressed alarm that Cheney has left the hospital and returned to work - usually, when a person gets a thrombosis, he or she is laid up for a long period of time - at least days, probably hospitalized while various blood thinners and clotbusters are administered, with dire warnings from doctors to remain in bed at all times or risk death.

So while the talking heads are saying Cheney's already back to work, and will be back to playing tennis soon, is he really in ICU?

[Little Wing]

1. Sure, like a mild deep-fried twinkie

still a little soft on the inside

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. wouldn't be surprised

in the midst of the Watergate crisis Nixon was hospitalized for phlebitis, which is, I believe, a painful blood clot in the leg--I recall at the time the talking heads saying he needed rest so that the clot wouldn't break loose and go to his brain or heart. What Cheney has would be, at the very least, as serious and I think moreso, given his heart condition.

[Horse with no Name]

6. phlebitis is basically an irritation of the veins

Thrombophlebitis is clot (s) in a vein that cause inflammation.
Thrombus is the actual clot.

It would be MY guess that Cheney was treated with super duper clotbusters (urokinase, streptokinase or activase)given the level of healthcare he has access to and the fact that they need to get rid of the clot QUICKLY.

[shireen]

13. standard therapy is heparin/lovenox and long-term coumadin

that medication does not actually bust up the clot, but prevents new blood clots. Over time, the dvt is absorbed. I dunno why they would want to use clot-busters, it could be dangerous if those smaller clots clog up a vein or artery downstream. Do you know of cases where those super-dupers were used? Just curious ....

[Horse with no Name]

15. In "expedient" cases, yes

We don't use heparin much anymore because lovenox is weight based and can be used outpatient and doesn't require as much labwork to monitor. In other words, it is cheaper.
AND just for your info...the kinase drugs are CLOTBUSTERS. Yes, they do break up the clot. ANY clot.:)

[shireen]

16. thanks .... after I posted that, I wondered if i had said the wrong thing

you're right, i checked Merck, and those super-dupers are used for serious cases, just as you said. :)

[3waygeek]

18. Somehow I don't think Cheney would go

on coumadin -- it's the active ingredient in some rat poisons :evilgrin:

[shireen]

20. lol! if i had a penny for the number of times i've heard that line so far

i'd be able to buy me a vein-clotting McDonalds whopper! :)

[Parche]

23. CHENEY

Well there should be NO worry by him, because it cant break off and go to his heart

BECAUSE HE HAS NO HEART

[POAS]

3. They may be referring to the size of the clod...I mean clot

If he had a small clot it won't produce much lasting effect. They don't have to worry about it moving to his heart, for obvious reasons!

[shireen]

12. size doesn't matter

i know people who get micro-clots in the brain, causing mini-strokes.

the size of the clot doesn't matter -- all it has to do is block a vein or artery leading to a major organ, starving it of oxygen. Usually, the clot forms in the vein, but there are cases of artery clots as well. So in the most common case, the vein clot, it will end up in the lungs, causing a pulmonary embolism. A small clot will cause loss of some lung tissue, which in itself is seriously debilitating. Or it can get to the heart and cause a heart attack.

[KatyaR]

25. "it depends on the size of the clod"--

snort--:rofl:

[doc03]

4. I was hospitalized for 7 days back in September

with a deep-vein thrombosis. I complained of some leg pain at a routine doctor visit and he sent me to the hospital immediately to get an ultrasound, after they found the clot they wouldn't even let me go to my car to get a few things. I was bedfast for seven days and only aloud to go to the bathroom about 10 feet away.

[madokie]

7. I spent a week in the hospital 4 years ago for dvt left calf

the longest week of my life I must say too

[shireen]

8. they made me use a bedpan! the horror!

but i managed to talk myself out of the hospital stay after 24 hours by promising to keep my foot elevated and take my lovenox shots. but it was one seriously scary ordeal ....

[ccpup]

5. I recently saw

footage of Cheney -- before his Asian trip, I suspect -- jogging up the steps to his plane and I remember thinking 1) jesus christ on a cracker, don't do that!, 2) they're really trying to sell him as a "healthy and vigorous" leader and 3) he's gonna have some circulatory problem in a week or so 'cause he's not the type to be jogging up anything.

Thrombosis ain't good, no matter how they spin it.

[frogcycle]

9. it's a sad state of affairs when news like that about a national leader

prompts thoughts that are, well, not charitable...

just sayin...

[Tess49]

10. Clots in calf veins are not realy in the deep veins, We look for

them when we scan the deep veins of the leg (femoral, superficial femoral, popliteal, for example), but rarely do more than call the patient's doctor about it. If we find a clot in a deep vein, we make the patient stay put, and they are typically admitted.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. Given that Cheney travels with the equivalent of a mobile hospital, he's probably

getting the same kind of treatment as he would over a few days in the hospital, IV blood thinners then a switch to oral, with labs to monitor his coagulation, and probably rest.

The whole world knows the guy's in terrible shape and it's pretty apparent just looking at him, I don't know why they always make such a big production about pretending his big health problems aren't big. Dude has had an implantable defibrillator since before becoming VP even.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. yes

it can be life-threatening or limb-threatening - that would be serious.

Mild would be a case that requires a little heparin and a pat on the back and you're on your way.

[shireen]

19. i don't understand this

maybe one of you medical people can set me straight on this ....

I think *any* clot is dangerous, no matter the size. Smaller ones may not necessarily be fatal but can cause enough oxygen deprivation to a major organ to cause damage. Micro-clots in the brain can cause TIAs (i know people who get it). That's why I'm a bit surprised to hear people calling some dvts mild, or a calf vein clot as not serious.

I've got a blood coagulation disorder (APS) that first manifested as a severe dvt, and have to be on coumadin for life. That's why I'm so interested in all this.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. oh sure

they're all serious, and need to be treated as such. But sometimes the threat from the actual clot itself is serious, sometimes it's not that serious. I'm not a doctor, but my father has problems with this, and sometimes it can be a real medical crisis, and sometimes not.

But yes, they're all serious. Some are just more serious than others.

[knitter4democracy]

26. It depends on where they are, from what I understand.

In certain veins, Hubby gets really nervous, in others, not so much. It doesn't mean that he doesn't take it seriously and treat it right away, though. Clots like that could be signs of a much worse condition. Hubby lost a patient a year ago to blood clots that were from an undiagnosed lung cancer. He started with trying to figure out why the guy was clotting, sent him to a blood specialist, and then went back to the original chest films to see if the cancer was there, and in the second look they found it. He's still upset about the whole thing (the guy was a patient of one of the partners originally, so Hubby didn't get him until his last month).

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Ah the good ol' days of the Pulitburo

calling a serious lethal pneumonia a cold are back...

;-)

you caught that one too huh?

[The Blue Flower]

22. He should go back to work

We need him working HARD for this country. Can't do without him. Thank goodness he doesn't want to take time off. Can't have that. Thanks Dick for going back to work so fast. Don't stop for deep vein thrombosis or anything. (winkwinknudgenudge)

[meldroc]

27. Absolutely! Don't forget to exercise!

The best thing for a deep-vein thrombosis is exercise. Get on that treadmill and get that blood flowing! I recommend getting a sustained heart rate of at least 150 bpm! Do that and you'll be right as rain!

[knitter4democracy]

24. How the heck did he clot?

He's on blood-thinners for the implanted heart shocker thingy (great medical jargon there :blush:) and previous heart attacks. How did his blood still clot like that? That means that any DVT would be serious, and his docs probably are worried. He might be working, but I'm not sure he's out of bed.