Howard Dean calls for an end to the electoral college

[housewolf]

I found this little snippet in an Editor & Publisher preview of the upcoming issue of Time magazine that was mostly about Michelle Obama
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003807157


Meanwhile, in an interview, Democratic Party boss Howard Dean calls for the end of the electoral college: "It’s unrepresentative of where the American people are. It was fine for the days of the Pony Express, but it’s not necessary to avoid a popular vote on Presidents now.”

[RB TexLa]

1. I live in an urban area of a big state, fine with me.

[Warpy]

2. I live in the only big city in a state with a low population

and it's OK with me, too.

At any rate, the electors should be allotted proportionately. Once that's been tried for a few years, it should be easier to abolish it completely.

It's an antidemocratic anachronism.

[robinlynne]

3. timing? how about AFTER the election?

[MonkeyFunk]

18. The timing will be never

3/4ths of the states would need to approve it, and there's no way that will ever happen.

[SCantiGOP]

29. at a minimum

If you're going to keep the concept, take away the fact that an elector can vote other than how his/her state voted. Can you imagine a scenario where the vote was a 269-269 tie, meaning the House would decide the election after the electoral college deadlocked, but one elector switched sides and decided the election. Then, imagine that 2 or 3 years into the term, it was discovered that the elector had been bribed or threatened to take the action. Talk about a constitutional crisis.
The electoral college is like the archaic fact that a golfer has to record and submit his own score in a tournament, even though millions of people see the scoreboard on TV, there are scoreboards all over the course and there's even some kid carrying the scores with every group. Once each state certifies the vote the election should be declared over.

[poppysgal]

4. I agree Dean

:hi:

[Clear Blue Sky]

5. Good luck. Need a constitutional amendment.

Need 3/4 of states to ratify. Small states (population wise) won't go for it as they will be totally irrelevant in any national election.

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

9. Not really irrelevant

Right now, the population of California is about 33 million / 0.5 million =~ 66 times the population of Wyoming. But The electoral college is 55 EVs to 3, about 18 times.

So, a vote in Wyoming is worth 66/18 =~ 3.6 times what a vote in California is worth when electing the president.

It's true that the smaller states (3 EVs) would never vote for an amendment, because it would change their votes from being worth 3 times California's votes to equal to California's. A state like Arkansas has 6 electoral votes, with a population of 2.7 million. So for this size state, 33/2.7 =~ 12 times the size, and electoral votes are 55/6 =~ 9. So Arkansas' votes are worth 12/9 = 1.3 times as much as California votes.

The argument for the electoral college system is that we are a union of states, not just one large republic, so the collection of votes from one state are worth something more than just the population. But the argument that without the electoral college, small states' votes are irrelevant is wrong: instead it means small states' votes would no longer be worth more than larger states' votes per capita.

Edit: these numbers are from the 2000 census because that is what electoral votes are based on for this decade (2004, 2008 elections).

[Clear Blue Sky]

10. But without the college,

a national election could be decided by a handful of states.

Not a perfect system, but I don't know if popular vote is the way to go either.

[Breeze54]

11. Welcome to DU, Donkey_Punch_Dubya !

:P Love the name! :rofl:

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

12. Thanks!

I've been reading since the weeks before the 2004 election, but decided I needed to join. I hope if there's a double meaning it isn't a little too ... naughty, haha.

[AZ Criminal JD]

28. If per capita is your argument then we should eliminate the Senate.

All the same arguments apply there.

[sharp_stick]

6. I've been whining about the EC for years

I just despise that outdated system.

[bigdarryl]

7. Dean needs to call an end to this infighting with the party he's useless

and when all this shit is settled he needs to go

[Breeze54]

8. YES!! Many Dem Reps are saying this on PROGESSIVE RADIO Interviews!!

:applause: :applause:

DEAN Rocks!! :yourock:

[Rosemary2205]

13. Am I wrong? I don't think the US Const even gives us the right to vote for Pres.

Aren't the State governments supposed to choose their electors, who then decide on Pres? Each State's own constitution regulates how the electors are chosen??

so in order to abandon the electoral college we are talking about amending the US Constitution AND 50 state constitutions minimal?

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

14. I think the Constitution says

that electors will be chosed by each State. They used to be selected by state governments in many cases, but the language can also mean selected by the states through voting, like it is now.

[KoKo]

24. In the Conyer's Basement Hearings after '04 Election Fiasco, Rep. Jesse Jackson, jr. Promised he'd

introduce an Amendment to the Constitution of the US which would guarantee US Citizens the "Right" to vote.

So far, he's never introduced the Amendment we were promised. And, Conyers has yet to "enforce" any of his subpoenas. :-(

[libodem]

15. Good!

Democrats never get a vote in Idaho, because the majority takes all 4 electoral votes. Even if we had 25% we would not receive our one quarter representation. I hate it. The tyranny of the majority .

[Selatius]

16. We should transition to a run-off system, such as what France utilizes for pres. elections.

The run-off system is preferable, simply because it requires a candidate win a majority, not a plurality, of the vote to win.

If we had used France's system in 2000, the top two candidates Gore and Bush would advance to the next round, since no one won a majority of the vote nationwide in the first round, with Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan eliminated at the end of the first round.

In the second round, I have no doubt Al Gore would have won the majority of the popular vote. We would have avoided the last 8 miserable years.

[DavidDvorkin]

17. It was never fine, even in the days of the Pony Express

It was absurd from the beginning.

[New Dawn]

19. That is a great statement.

We need to abolish that anti-democratic "Electoral College" as soon as possible.

[Jade Fox]

20. From Dean's lips to God's ear......

Long overdue.

[mzmolly]

21. It would encourage more participation.

People would feel that their votes really DO matter.

[suston96]

22. Matter of fact, according to the US Constitution, the 50 states can have 50 different ways....

....to choose their electors.

In 2000 the Florida Republican legislature was about to trash the popular vote if Gore won it, and was halfway to picking its own slate of electors.

And we all know what happened next.

[checks-n-balances]

23. Good on ya, Dr. Dean!

We need this man's leadership to continue after his present tenure is over. The next Dem prez who appoints him to an important position would be displaying a great deal of wisdom & good judgment by doing so...

[UTUSN]

25. That should have been #1 priority since 2000 & hasn't been. DNC needs to delete super-delegates and

go to regional primaries and run-offs.

[salguine]

26. Finally!

The Electoral College should have been taken out behind the barn and shot a long time ago.

We need to implement proportional representation and instant runoff voting, too.

[salguine]

27. Finally!

The Electoral College should have been taken out behind the barn and shot a long time ago.

We need to implement proportional representation and instant runoff voting, too.