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RONALD REAGAN DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO BRING THE IRAN HOSTAGES HOME#@!

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searchingforlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:07 AM
Original message
RONALD REAGAN DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO BRING THE IRAN HOSTAGES HOME#@!
This is another Republican attempt to rewrite history. They came home right after Ronald Reagan took office but Jimmy Carter was the moving force behind this. Mr. Carter worked on this right up to his last day in office and didn't care that he would not get credit for it. The Republican machine loves claim anything that happens around their sinkhole.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. I had to explain the to a rightie yesterday
That and the Berlin Wall.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. Reagan made deals to keep them there longer. Reagan was scum.
:puke:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. So now they're saying that the October Surprise is true after all...
...

As The Consortium reported in its first issue in December 1995, the House task force also hid a report from Russia's Supreme Soviet which recounted Moscow's intelligence information that also placed Casey, George Bush and other leading Republicans meeting with Iranians in Europe to arrange a politically favorable outcome to the 1980 hostage crisis. The Russian report arrived in Washington on Jan. 11, 1993, two days before the task force report was released reaching the opposite conclusion.

Instead of making the Russian report public, the task force stuck it in a cardboard box that was filed away with other classified and unclassified material from the investigation. I found the Russian report in a box when I examined the task force's raw documents.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. WRONGO - They DON'T claim anything that happens around their sinkhole.
That's why we end up with BS emails explaining how the economy tanking is because America put Pelosi in the hot seat in 2006. Gawd ferbid they would take PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY for themselves.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Other GOOP Lies...
It's fun to play with that one with a wingnut. If they claim Raygun negotiated to bring home the hostages (or Poppy Bush), I always remind them that the hostages were released the exact moment the Great Expectorator was being sworn in...and if he had negotiated prior to that time he would have violated U.S. laws...and then opens up the door about how Poppy had those hostages held past the November elections. The don't wanna go there.

Another is the "Raygun economy"...that somehow he fixed what Carter messed up. Fact was the inflation of the late 70's started under Nixon and Ford (anyone still have a WIN button??) and their disastrous policies (Kissinger kissing up to the Shah) helped by defecit spending during Vietnam is what messed things up under Carter. He was the one who brought in Paul Voelker who is credited with helping end that mess. Afterwards there was nothing...until Poppy booosh had to raise taxes in '90 to try to cover up for all the Raygun defecits. Poppy's evil spawn would do Raygun 10 times worse.

There's many others...of course. The infamous "winning the Cold War"...little credit is given to Gorbachev and many reformers inside Eastern Europe who were around long before Raygun...like Havel...who did the real heavy lifting. It's a myth that will only get worse as the Repugnicans revise history and are desperate for some kind of idol to worship.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. David Stockman blew away the myth of Reagan "fixing" what Carter "messed up"
with "The Triumph of Politics" ... if Reagan had done nothing to what Carter had put in place, Stockman's numbers pointed out that the deficit would have been reduced, not inflated like Reagan's lobotomites claim ... and Reagan caused the debts to go up exponentially ...
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elizfeelinggreat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. also
It's a good slam when they claim that Bush's problems are because of Clinton's actions, or the next crisis is because Bush left office - which we'll be seeing a lot of in the future.

Everything in this thread is so important when we have the opportunity - we need to keep pointing out republican corruption of history - they want to talk about who made what happen? Let's apply that to their heroes immediately when it's brought up.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I Never Hesitate...
Never have, either. I'm proud to have been among that 10% that still disapproved of this regime in the wake of 9/11 (I'm not a 9/11 conspiracy afficiando)...and have relished the chance to refute every talking point and lie that any wingnut dares to bring up. If anything I'm probably too hard on these poor bastards as its so easy to unmask their hypocrisies and then hammer them with the truth.

History has and always will have a "liberal bias" :rofl: Just as there are holocoust deniers, there will be those who revise our own history to build up their own delusions and self importance. For many years, many liberals and progressives felt it was beneath us to get in the mud with these slugs and we've paid for it with blood and treasury. Fortunately, the wingnuts overplayed their hand, importance and history...and in the process have allowed us to find our own voices.

Cheers...
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. Candidate Reagan made a deal with Iranians to end the hostage crisis.
Do a search October Surprise Iran
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Poppy and Bill Casey did the legwork with Iran to HOLD the hostages until after the election.
Traitors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruf5CynbPJo

Gary Sick, Robert Parry, Barbara Honegger, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr, Yassar Arafat, Abbie Hoffman chronicled the treason.
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Patti Reagan suspected deal by Repubs to delay hostage release
She has stated that her observations during the inauguration (remarks made by Reagan officials) made her highly suspicious that Reaganites had secretly arranged for the hostages to be released only after Carter was no longer President just to discredit Carter. Reagan got credit for several things that Carter worked towards and even some that were already accomplished during Carters term.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Bill Casey and George H.W. Bush made a better offer than the Carter White House
Edited on Fri May-16-08 06:39 AM by leveymg
The Reagan-Bush campaign was terrified that the Carter White House would reach an agreement with Iran leading to the release of the hostages before the election. So, they made their own deal brokere with Khomeini's nephew during a series of meetings in Madrid and Paris.

That deal included U.S. recognition of the legitimacy of the Islamic Republic and a pledge not to intervene in Iran's internal affairs. Most Iranian bank deposits seized in the U.S. were also returned. The Iran-Contra arms deal was a follow on to that package. See, Algiers Accord (January 19, 1981).

The best source for this is a book by Carter's NSC staff member, Gary Sick, The October Surprise.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. october surprise is a great book, indeed.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Here's an extract of a long statement by Gary Sick in the Congressional Record
Edited on Fri May-16-08 07:34 AM by leveymg
(Copyright restictions don't apply): http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm

In the course of hundreds of interviews, in the U.S., Europe and the Middle East, I have been told repeatedly that individuals associated with the Reagan-Bush campaign of 1980 met secretly with Iranian officials to delay the release of the American hostages until after the Presidential election. For this favor, Iran was rewarded with a substantial supply of arms from Israel.

Some of the sources interviewed by me or my colleagues are or were government officials who claimed to have knowledge of these events by virtue of their official duties or their access to intelligence reports. Most insisted on anonymity.

Other sources are low-level intelligence operatives and arms dealers who are no boy scouts. A number of them have been arrested or have served prison time for gun-running, fraud, counterfeiting or drugs. Some may be seeking publicity or revenge, but others have nothing to gain from talking about these events, and genuinely feared for their personal safety. Several sources said they were participants, personally involved in or present at the events they described.

Their accounts were not identical, but on the central facts they were remarkably consistent, surprisingly so in view of the range of nationalities, backgrounds and perspectives of the sources. Because of my past Government experience, I knew about certain events that could not possibly be known to most of the sources, yet their stories confirmed those facts. It was the absence of contradictions on the key elements of the story that encouraged me to continue probing. This weight of testimony has overcome my initial doubts.

The story is tangled and murky and it may never be fully unraveled. At this point, however, the outlines of what I learned can be summarized as follows:

In December 1979 and January 1980, Cyrus and Jamshid Hashemi, two brothers who had good contacts in Iranian revolutionary circles, approached the Carter Administration seeking support for their candidate in the Iranian presidential elections. I met both of them briefly during that period. Although Washington was sympathetic, their appeal was over taken by events. Their candidate lost but they remained in contact with the U.S. Government, providing useful information about developments in the hostage crisis.

Cyrus died in 1986, only three months after his cooperation with the U.S. Customs Service in a dramatic sting operation that resulted in the arrest of several Americans, Israelis and Europeans on charges of plotting illegal arms sales. Jamshid Hashemi, who was also involved in international arms sales, was not implicated in that affair. I re-established contact with Mr. Hashemi in March 1990 and interviewed him a number of times.

According to Mr. Hashemi, William Casey, who had just become Ronald Reagan's campaign manager, met with him in late February or early March 1980 at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington. Mr. Casey quickly made it clear that he wanted to prevent Jimmy Carter from gaining any political advantage from the hostage crisis. The Hashemis agreed to cooperate with Mr. Casey without the knowledge of the Carter Administration.

Mr. Hashemi told me that he and his brother helped to arrange two critical meetings. In a Madrid hotel in late July 1980, an important Iranian cleric, Mehdi Karrubi, who is now the speaker of the Iranian Parliament, allegedly met with Mr. Casey and a U.S. intelligence officer who was operating outside authority. The same group met again several weeks later. Mr. Hashemi told me that Mr. Karrubi agreed in the second Madrid meeting to cooperate with the Reagan campaign about the timing of any hostage release.

In return, he was promised that the Reagan Administration, once in office, would return Iran's frozen assets and help them acquire badly needed military equipment and spare parts. Two other sources subsequently described these meetings in very similar terms in interviews with me and my colleagues. The Carter Administration had no knowledge of these meetings.

At about the time of the second meeting in Madrid, according to two former Israeli intelligence officers I interviewed, individuals associated with the Reagan campaign made contact with senior Government officials in Israel, which agreed to act as the channel for the arms deliveries to Iran that Mr. Casey had promised. Israel had been eager to sell military equipment to Iran, but the Carter Administration, which was maintaining a total arms embargo on Iran, had refused to agree.

As the threat of war with Iraq began to mount in early September 1980, Iran opened direct hostage negotiations with the Carter Administration. In retrospect, it appears that Iran may have been playing both sides, seeking the highest bid for the release of the hostages. The Carter Administration, however, did not realize it was involved in a three-cornered bidding contest, and resisted Iran's apparent interest in military equipment.

The Iraqi invasion of Iran on Sept. 22, 1980, added both urgency and confusion to the various negotiating tracks. Two former Reagan campaign aides told me that this generated new fears within the Reagan-Bush campaign that war pressures would lead Iran to release the hostages before Election Day, thereby improving President Carter's chances.

Adding to the complexity, the Carter Administration secretly had been developing plans for a possible second hostage rescue mission, after the failure of its earlier mission, Desert 1, in April. It became operational in September 1980. Richard V. Allen, Ronald Reagan's first national security adviser and a member of his campaign, told me that one member of the rescue team contacted him and gave him a description of the second rescue plan. Shortly thereafter, the Reagan-Bush campaign launched a major publicity effort warning that President Carter might be planning an `October surprise' to obtain the release of the hostages prior to the election.

From Oct. 15 to Oct. 20, events came to a head in a series of meetings in several hotels in Paris, involving members of the Reagan-Bush campaign and high-level Iranian and Israeli representatives. Accounts of these meetings and the exact number of participants vary considerably among the more than 15 sources who claim direct or indirect knowledge of some aspect of them. There is, however, widespread agreement on three points: William Casey was a key participant: the Iranian representatives agreed that the hostages would not be released prior to the Presidential election on Nov. 4; in return, Israel would serve as a conduit for arms and spare parts to Iran.

At least five of the sources who say they were in Paris in connection with these meetings insist that George Bush was present for at least one meeting. Three of the sources say that they saw him there.
In the absence of further information, I have not made up my mind about this allegation.

Immediately after the Paris meetings, things began to happen. On Oct. 21, Iran publicly shifted its position in the negotiations with the Carter Administration, disclaiming any further interest in receiving military equipment. From my position at the N.S.C., I learned that Cyrus Hashemi and another Iranian arms dealer secretly had reported to State Department officials that Iran had decided to hold the hostages until after the elections.

Between Oct. 21 and Oct. 23, Israel sent a planeload of F-4 fighter aircraft tires to Iran in contravention of the U.S. boycott and without informing Washington. Cyrus Hashemi, using his own contacts began privately organizing military shipments to Iran. On Oct. 22, the hostages were suddenly dispersed to different locations. And a series of delaying tactics in late October by the Iranian Parliament stymied all attempts by the Carter Administration to act on the hostage question until only hours before Election Day.

After the election, the lame-duck Carter Administration resumed hostage negotiations through Algerian intermediaries, but the talks stalled. On Jan. 15, Iran did an about-face, offering a series of startling concessions that reignited the talks and resulted in a final agreement in the last few hours of Jimmy Carter's Presidency. The hostages were released on Jan. 21, 1981, minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in as President.

Almost immediately thereafter, according to Israeli and American former officials, arms began to flow to Iran in substantial quantities. A former senior official in the Israeli Ministry of Defense told me that the shipments by air and sea involved hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment and that detailed lists of each shipment were provided to senior officials in the Reagan Administration. Moshe Arens, the Israeli Ambassador to Washington in 1982, told The Boston Globe in October 1982 that Israeli's arms shipments to Iran at this time were coordinated with the U.S. Government `at almost the highest of levels.'

Former officials and participants in the Reagan-Bush campaign team uniformly have denied any personal knowledge or involvement in such a deal, although none of them categorically denies that contacts with Iran before the 1980 election may have taken place. Richard V. Allen vehemently denies any agreement between the campaign and Iran over the timing of the hostage release. He told me and others, however, that there are `self-starters' in every campaign and that he cannot vouch for every `independent, freelance, spontaneous, over-the-Iransom' volunteer.

Can this story be believed? there is no `smoking gun' and I cannot prove exactly what happened at each stage. In the absence of hard documentary evidence, the possibility of an elaborate disinformation campaign cannot be excluded.

But all of that must be balanced against the sheer numbers and diversity of the various sources, from eight countries on four continents. Some 20 individuals, including myself and some of the sources mentioned above, have been interviewed and can be seen tomorrow night on the Public Broadcasting Service's documentary series `Frontline.'

The allegations of these individuals have many disturbing implications for the U.S. political system. One is the tampering with foreign policy for partisan benefit. That has, of course, happened before and it may well happen again, but it assumes special poignancy in this case since it would have involved tampering with the lives and freedom of 52 Americans.

Another implication is that leaders of the U.S. exposed themselves to the possibility of blackmail by Iran or Israel. Third, the events suggest that the arms-for-hostage deal that in the twilight of the Reagan Presidency became known as the Iran-contra affair, instead of being an aberration, was in fact the re-emergence of a policy that began even before the Reagan-Bush Administration took office.

But finally, it implies a willingness to pursue private, high-risk foreign policy adventures out of sight of the electorate. That may be realpolitik. Its practitioners may indeed win big. But it is profoundly antidemocratic.

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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. RR could not legally do anything to bring home the hostages ...
and if he did, he was breaking the law ... remember, the Repukes wanted to disembowel Nancy Pelosi for speaking with a foreign power without Bush's blessing ...

Unless Ronald Reagan really was doing the behind-the-scenes that the Iran-Contra affair exposed ...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. WRONG -- The Reagan gang committed treason to keep the hostages there till inauguration
Edited on Fri May-16-08 06:46 AM by HamdenRice
The basic deal was that the Reagan campaign told the Iranians that if they would keep the hostages until at least the election, the Reagan administration would sell the Iranians arms as a bribe to release the hostages at the "right time." So in a perverse way, the Reaganites did have something to do with the release.

That suspected scandal was called the "October Surprise" and was broken as a news story by Gary Sick, a National Security Council staffer of the Carter administration who had watched mystified as a completed deal with the Carter administration to release the prisoners fell apart.

The proceeds of the sale of arms to Iran after the election was used to illegally finance a war against Nicaragua after Congress cut off funding. That scandal was called "Iran-Contra."

The fact that Repugs would brag about committing treason shows how far this country has fallen.
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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. It just kills me to see all this idiot Repigs try to Beatify their Saint Ronnie
I was a child in California when he became gov. First of all, the only reason he did become gov is because J Edgar Hoover was looking for someone to put down the Berkeley students and their Free Speech movement--in Hoover's eyes they were all a bunch of terrorists and Gov Pat Brown wasn't doing enough to oppress them. So at the time, in order to run for political office in Cali, you had to be sure there was nothing on your record that showed you'd ever been associated with a "subversive" group. Ronnie had once been a part of some organisation not beloved by the crazy, cold war-fearing idiots, but Hoover hid that association so St Ronnie could become what he did best: a puppet, a figurehead whose strings were pulled by someone else.

So in Cali in the 60s, we saw Ronnie cut state funds to mental hospitals, starting the first wave of homelessness and schizophrenics without care or meds that had to live on the streets. Fifteen years later, he took his act national--and we still have repercussions to this day.

I for one will NEVER get over how cold and unresponsive Reagan's regime was towards AIDS. Those fuckers made it obvious they didn't care because it was only affecting an "undesirable" part of the population, so your friends and mine, your family and mine, all died needlessly while St Ronnie and Nancy lived in their bubble. A man like that should be reviled not reveared!

Anyway, the whole J Edgar/Ronnie connection was printed in the Sunday Chronicle in June 2002--a whole huge exposee written by a Chron reporter who spent SEVENTEEN years petitioning for it under the Freedom of Information act. It's full of reality-based-not-so-nice stuff about ST Ronnie. I'll find the link and post it for those interested.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. but but but
he walked on water!
:sarcasm:


I hated that man; could NEVER understand why the CW said he was such a "great communicator" and so "likable"

he was Marie Antoinnette and deserved her fate


his supposedly great line "there you go again" was nothing more than avoiding answering a legitimate accusation - and he got kudos for it

He was a puppet; gwb is a puppet, and mccain will be a puppet if we aren't careful

that there remain idiots who still believe in these wizards of oz is appalling


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