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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:05 PM
Original message
Some Reflections on "Rove in State of Panic." Are things what they seem?
Edited on Sun Apr-20-08 02:32 PM by L. Coyote
Some Reflections on "Rove in State of Panic"
OR Another Howl in the Wilderness.

Are things what they seem? Mark Crispin Miller re Rove's letter: ... "seems to me to be the outburst of a very anxious man."

The emphasis should be on "seems to me." What the "outburst" is meant to seem like MAY NOT BE Rove's real intention, seems to me. I realize Rove is preparing to testify, when finally forced to. Seems to me, Rove's letter is the script Rs will be reading at Siegelman's hearing, if not subterfuge to help create some needed script.

So, Scott Horton reports, in an e-mail to a known, radical, leftist writer, that several GOP sources in Alabama think Rove is in a state of panic, Yes, we now have fourth-hand Republican hearsay, at best, if we trust the sources AND the unnamed Alabama informants. Horton informing that senior Alabama GOP figures are "keeping quiet ... more political smarts than Rove" says a lot. But, how true is that? The R denials are in Horton's blog, seems to me.

Horton informing that "Rove has a simple objective here" is likely true, seems to me. Even Rove wanting "to know all the underlying evidence .. against him" is a plausible assertion, albeit obliquely related to this letter's purpose, seems to me.

Horton goes on to ask, "How can he deny he was involved in fundraising and strategizing? The very effort is absurd." So it seems to me also. Rove, of course, is finding issues where no focus came before, anywhere and everywhere he can, to avoid the focus on other things, including Horton's own words on Riley's illegal campaign financing via Abramoff, Scanlan, Susan Ralston, ... etc., etc.

I have my own list of things Rove does NOT want you to focus on today, or tomorrow: Riley's illegal campaign financing, stealing Siegelman's election, Abramoff, Scanlan, Reed, scalping Indians, Noel Hillman, McCain covering up the Abramoff-Alabama connection, racist politics in the Old South, gambling corruption, Susan Ralston, USA firings, voter caging, Hatch Act violations, GAO corruption in support of Republican candidates, lost e-mails, and that's just off the top of my head.

Horton also states that Rove's "denial should be under oath and subject to cross-examination, just as Jill Simpson's was" and so it seems to me also. But, wouldn't that subvert Rove's purpose today. Rove wants everyone to focus on anything except that very long list. Purporting his "state of panic" serves this purpose, seems to me.

Rove's letter: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3181624

Now, what else is in that letter? First, a carefully parsed threat to discontinue speaking or face legal challenge, seems to me, "Your continued coverage of this issue raises questions about your journalistic standards and those of MSNBC and NBC." This is the part the Legal Department is focused on!

Rove writes, "... a vast conspiracy involving two U.S. Attorneys, the Alabama Attorney General, unnamed career officials in the Public Integrity Unit at the U.S. Justice Department, unnamed higher-ups in the Justice Department and ... there is not a single piece of paper, not a single email, not a single conversation ... not one credible witness to the workings of the conspiracy?" It certainly concerns me that given this situation, we do not move the focus to other aspects of the story, the very ones Dan Abrams would not allow Siegelman to discuss when he cut Gov. Siegelman off with that infamous "Let's keep it simple." Those issues WERE discussed between Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and Gov. Siegelman on GoLeft TV-Circle of Fire.

RFK, Jr. interview w/ Gov. Don Siegelman
Part 1 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x120912
Part 2 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x120914
GD - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3173987

Okay, finally we have two non-Republicans talking about this issue. Whew! that's a start.
However, that's not to say their conversation holds up any better to Rovian critique!

Why the focus on what all these Republicans are saying: Rove, Abrams, Horton, Simpson, and unnamed informants (and CBS?). If looking for vast Republican conspiracies, this group may be where to start! What better way to subvert investigation and prosecution of the initial conspiracy than to create a veneer that becomes, in due course, an immensely discrediting and brightly-flaming pile of obvious BS, or so it seems to me. To remove the BS muddying the issue, remove Rove from the DoJ-Hillman-Canary-Fuller equation until evidenced, before the BS becomes the issue obfuscating all else.

Finally Rove writes, "You didn't subject the statements of others to skeptical and independent review." It seems to me, this Rovian chastizing is in order here on DU and elsewhere. Quoting the one other tidbit of wisdom in the letter, to "simply repeat something someone else says" won't get it done. Especially true about becoming the echo chamber for the Mighty R Wurlitzer. Much more thinking and analysis is in order, along with selecting our own focus and voices, seems to me.

I need to howl this plainly, "In politics, things are never what they seem." That axiom needs to be applied to what everyone says, including if not especially to Gov. Don Siegelman. After all, he was fooled before, like everyone else is being fooled, seems to me.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. You are right. Rove's letter must be read like an upside down sieve.
We need to look at the holes. Rove's letter is meant to let the stuff he does not want fall through and be lost. So, we need to examine everything that flows through the sieve, the stuff he does not touch on.
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KSinTX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Dang, I hate to say it but he makes a great point in part
The difficulty with your approach is you reduced yourself to the guy in the bar who repeats what the fellow next to him says - "The glove fits! The glove fits!" - only louder, because it suits your pre-selected story line ("Bush Justice") and you don't want the facts to get in the way of a good fable.


It's the New Wave of the Fourth Estate. While Abrams technically isn't a journalist, but a commentator, part of his title is that of correspondent. His primary objective, supposedly, is to bring us reportage from a legal perspective. He's not even close. The very things that get many so upset on this board are the very things which Rove cites in his letter. Imagine the power of this story had it broken lush with factual information rather than the beliefs of those involved. This is how important news gets whisked away from public view. When there is an ounce of truth, it is too often couched in provocative imaginings and therefore discounted as gossip and get swept out with such news as Britney Spears' latest adventure. We all lose, and have lost significantly, from this.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent analysis, L.Coyote...
There's always more than meets the eye.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. The letter that matters came from House Judiciary to Karl Rove
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Josh Marshall: Abramoff is part of GOP's pay-for-play political machine
Sometimes it seems, when reading discussions, that everyone is afflicted with memory loss.
Maybe it is just easier to hurl an insult about a nickname than actually think about an issue.
Anyway, this article goes back to 2005.

==========
Abramoff is part of GOP's pay-for-play political machine
By Josh Marshall - 09/29/05 - http://thehill.com/josh-marshall/abramoff-is-part-of-gops-pay-for-play-political-machine-2005-09-29.html

As you know, Timothy E. Flanigan is awaiting confirmation as deputy attorney general of the United States. If confirmed, it will be his second stint with the Bush administration.

Flanigan was appointed deputy white house counsel in 2001. Later, he left that job to become general counsel of Tyco Corp., which had relocated to Bermuda to avoid paying taxes to the U.S. treasury. At Tyco, Flanigan hired Jack Abramoff to fend off legislation that would have punished corporate tax dodgers like Tyco.

In the course of that hiring and work, Abramoff first boasted to Flanigan of his access to Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), Karl Rove and others. And later he claimed that he had spoken to Rove and enlisted his assistance on Tycos behalf.

Many press reports of the Flanigan-Abramoff connection suggest that Abramoff may just have been puffing or blowing smoke when he told Flanigan he had such inside access to Rove and others. But given Flanigans background working as the No. 2 lawyer in the White House counsels office, it seems highly implausible that Flanigan would not have known just who Abramoff was and the level of juice he had with Rove ..........

........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rove blamed for US Attorney firings in Gonzales hearings
Rove blamed for Attorney firings in Gonzales hearing; Specter raises prospect of impeachment
Michael Roston - July 24, 2007 - http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Gonzales_returns_to_Senate_Judiciary_Committee_0724.html


Senator Patrick Leahy kicked off an oversight hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales by accusing top White House adviser Karl Rove of playing a key role in the firing of 8 US Attorneys.

"The accumulated and essentially uncontroverted evidence is that political considerations factored into the unprecedented firing of at least nine United States Attorneys last year," the committee's chairman said. "The evidence we have been able to collect points to Karl Rove and the political operatives at the White House."

Leahy also described a Justice Department in a state of 'crisis.' ...........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. WAXMAN: 88 WH officials used RNC e-mail, KARL ROVE = 140,216 e-mails
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 03:50 PM by L. Coyote
Gonzales misses deadline to submit Rove emails.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/15/gonzles-misses-deadline-to-submit-rove-emails

Earlier this month, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) subpoenaed Alberto Gonzales to turn over all e-mails to or from Karl Rove in connection U.S. attorney scandal. The committee gave the attorney general until 2 PM today to comply. That deadline has passed. .....

===============
June 18, 2007, WAXMAN: 88 WH officials used RNC e-mail, KARL ROVE = 140,216 e-mails

"Given the heavy reliance by White House officials on RNC e-mail accounts, the high rank of the White House officials involved, and the large quantity of missing e-mails," the report said, "the potential violation of the Presidential Records Act may be extensive."

Administration Oversight, White House Use of Private E-mail Accounts
The Use of RNC E-Mail Accounts by White House Officials
Monday, June 18, 2007 - http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1362

The Oversight Committee has been investigating whether White House officials violated the Presidential Records Act by using e-mail accounts maintained by the Republican National Committee and the Bush Cheney 04 campaign for official White House communications. This interim staff report provides a summary of the evidence the Committee has received to date, along with recommendations for next steps in the investigation.

The information the Committee has received in the investigation reveals:

... White House officials given RNC e-mail accounts ... at least 88 ... RNC e-mail accounts include Karl Rove ... Andrew Card ... Ken Mehlman...

...White House officials made extensive use of their RNC e-mail accounts. The RNC has preserved 140,216 e-mails sent or received by Karl Rove. Over half of these e-mails (75,374) were sent to or received from individuals using official .gov e-mail accounts ... Sara Taylor (66,018 e-mails) ... Scott Jennings (35,198 e-mails). These e-mail accounts were used by White House officials for official purposes ...

... There has been extensive destruction of the e-mails of White House officials ... RNC has preserved no e-mails for 51 officials ... there are major gaps in the e-mail records of the 37 White House officials for whom the RNC did preserve e-mails ...

===========
FROM: Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.
Jun-19-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x899312
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Rove-Protege, RNC Vote Cager, Tim Griffin Resigns As U.S. Attorney
Lest we forget, Rove's protege was installed as USA in Arkansas after the Patriot Act was illegally amended to allow Bush to sneak in USA appointments without consulting with the Senate. Rove cannot forget this friend of his when he has to address his involvement in the process of firing and choosing USAs.

===================
Rove-Protege Tim Griffin Resigns As U.S. Attorney
May 30th, 2007 - http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/30/griffin-resigns/


The Arkansas Times reports that the controversial U.S. attorney in Arkansas, Tim Griffin, has resigned:

The U.S. Justice Department has notified Arkansass congressional delegation that Interim Eastern District U.S. Attorney Tim Griffin is resigning effective Friday, June 1.

Griffin, a former protege of Karl Rove, was formerly research director of the Republican National Committee. In 2004, BBC News published a report showing that Griffin led a caging scheme to suppress the votes of African-American service members in Florida.

Griffin became the poster boy for the politicization of the U.S. attorney process ........

===============
Bush's New US Attorney a Criminal?
http://www.gregpalast.com/bushs-new-us-attorney-a-criminal/

BBC Television had exposed 2004 voter attack scheme by appointee Griffin, a Rove aide.
Black soldiers and the homeless targeted.
by Greg Palast

There's only one thing worse than sacking an honest prosecutor. That's replacing an honest prosecutor with a criminal. ............

Griffin made a wee mistake. Instead of sending the emails -- potential evidence of a crime -- to email addresses ending with the domain name "@GeorgeWBush.com" he sent them to "@GeorgeWBush.ORG." A website run by prankster John Wooden .........

it is illegal to challenge voters en masse where race is an element in the targeting. So several lawyers told us, including Ralph Neas, famed civil rights attorney with People for the American Way.

Griffin himself ducked our cameras, but his RNC team tried to sell us the notion that the caging sheets were, in fact, not illegal voter hit lists, but a roster of donors .........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Connecting the Dots: Bush, Abramoff and Rove = "Gal Friday" Susan Ralston
One thing we can be sure of, Karl does not want us to focus on, Susan Ralston,
Jack Abramoff's aide who moved into the White House to work as his assistant too.
And, Karl does not want you to focus on the e-mail conspiring to keep Abramoff
requests out of the official WH e-mail system, to better serve the lobbyists interests!!

==============
Connecting the Dots: Abramoff and Rove
Jan 09, 2006 - http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/nataffdaily/story/9130607/connecting_the_dots_abramoff_and_rove

Did you know that Jack Abramoff and Karl Rove shared an executive assistant?

In 2001, Karl Rove needed a Gal Friday, someone to help oversee the "strategic planning, political affairs, public liaison, and intergovernmental affairs efforts of the White House."

He chose Susan Ralston, who came highly recommended from a friend: Jack Abramoff. Ralston performed similar duties for the Don of K Street -- that is until Abramoff realized she'd be far more useful embedded in the West Wing. (Ralston had also previous worked for Abramoff and Rove's fellow College Republican crony Ralph Reed.) ....


==============
Rove's Worrisome Witness
Robert D. Novak - May 17, 2007; Page A17 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/16/AR2007051602397.html

On the day presidential senior adviser Karl Rove administered a tongue-lashing to a Republican congressman, disturbing news about his former executive assistant was spread on Capitol Hill. GOP House members learned that Susan Ralston is requesting immunity to testify before Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman's investigating committee.

She was an assistant to Jack Abramoff, Washington super-lobbyist and Republican fundraiser, in 2001 when he recommended her for the top job with Rove as he entered the White House. As Rove's gatekeeper, Susan Bonzon Ralston became special assistant to the president and the highest-ranking Filipino American in the administration. For Waxman, she is a link between the disgraced, imprisoned Abramoff and Rove, a principal political target of the Democratic-controlled Congress. ........


==============
The Abramoff/Reed Emails - http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1121969,00.html

Subject: Louisiana
From Abramoff to Ralston, Thursday, February 06, 2003, 4:24 p.m:
I don't want to bother you guys with a meeting request, so I was hoping you could pass on to Karl that Interior is about to approve a gaming compact and land in trust for a tribe which is an anathema to all our supporters down there. It's called the Jena tribe, and the politicos (!) at Interior (low-mid level) are agreeing to this. It will cause a major backlash from our coalition and is something which they should not do on the merits. I believe that Steve Griles over there would be opposed, but it's important, if possible, to get some quiet message from the WH that this is absurd. Thanks Susan.

From Ralston to Abramoff, Tuesday, February 11, 2003, 3:04 p.m.:
Karl and others are aware ....

==============
House Dems Want Former Abramoff, Rove Aide for Questions
By Paul Kiel - March 30, 2007 - http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/002930.php


Much to the chagrin of the White House, House Government Reform Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) wants to hear from Susan Ralston.

Jack Abramoff's former personal assistant, Ralston became Karl Rove's assistant in 2001, where she was his "implant" at the White House.

But after a report last October by Waxman's committee (then chaired by Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA)) showed that Ralston had accepted thousands of dollars in gifts from Abramoff without compensating him, she abruptly resigned.

At the time, the White House was clear that Ralston's resignation meant the end of the issue. "She recognized that a protracted discussion of these matterrs would be a distraction to the White House and she's chosen to step down," said deputy White House press secretary Dana Perino. "We support her decision and consider the matter closed."

But it's not closed ............. According to Time, Bush has ordered his aides to round up all pictures of him and Abramoff .....
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. GOP Groups Told to Keep Bush Officials' E-Mails = RNC email
GOP Groups Told to Keep Bush Officials' E-Mails
Democrat Cites Investigation of Firings
R. Jeffrey Smith - March 27, 2007; Page A03 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/26/AR2007032601979.html


A Democratic House committee chairman yesterday told the Republican National Committee and the Bush-Cheney '04 campaign to retain copies of all e-mails sent or received by White House officials using e-mail accounts under their control... Waxman ... written request was based on evidence that White House officials -- particularly aides to top political adviser Karl Rove -- have used their politically related e-mail accounts to hide the conduct of official business ... failure to comply could expose the groups to possible obstruction charges.

Yesterday's request was based, Waxman said, on at least three White House officials' use of Republican Party-affiliated e-mail accounts for some of their work in recent years, as well as on reports that Rove routinely uses his RNC e-mail account for business.

....

Barry Jackson, a deputy to Rove, in 2003 used a "georgewbush.com" e-mail account to consult with Neil G. Volz, then an aide to lobbyist Jack Abramoff ...

Susan B. Ralston, while she was executive assistant to Rove, similarly used "georgewbush.com" and "rnchq.org" e-mail accounts to confer in 2001 and 2003 with Abramoff ... Ralston had warned that "it is better to not put this stuff in writing in . . . email system because it might actually limit what they can do to help us, especially since there could be lawsuits, etc."

Abramoff's response, according to a copy of his e-mail, was: "Dammit. It was sent to Susan on her rnc pager and was not supposed to go into the WH system."
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. President Bush and Jack Abramoff meetings "reportedly have been frequent"
No mainstream media has told the American people any where near the full story,
how Abramoff is a Bush Administration insider, a Bush Pioneer, a moneybags, and involved in numerous operations yet to be fully investigated.
One example is his role, along with Karl Rove, in illegally moving funds into the Riley campaign to defeat Siegelman.
This matter touches on Bush as well as Rove, and a focus on Rove should not distract from the Decider, but rather shine a spotlight.
This article by Horton illustrates the extent of the cover up and the extreme methods deployed. You have to wonder why!!

============
The Justice Departments On-Going State Secrets Charade
Scott Horton - Dec 2, 2007 - http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/12/hbc-90001814

When is information a state secret and thus completely exempt from disclosure in legal process, even if its exclusion will produce a manifest injustice? In previous episodes, we have gotten an array of different answers. For instance, we learned that when the Government engages in criminal violations of the FISA statute conspiring with telecommunications companies in the process, with the result that the communications of American citizens are subject to unlawful warrantless surveillancethis is a state secret. And likewise, when the Government picks up an innocent man, wrongfully confines him and deprives him of access to counsel and due process, then transports him overseas for the purposes of having him torturedagain a series of criminal actsthis is also a state secret. And today we get yet a further installment in what the Bush Justice Department considers to be a state secret. It appears that when a convicted felon at the heart of what Norm Ornstein and Thomas Mann have labeled the biggest corruption scandal in American history pays hundreds of visits to the White House, meeting with the President, the Vice President, and the Presidents senior political advisor, and potentially involving them directly or indirectly in his criminal schemes, this, too, is a state secret and thus cannot be divulged.

I think were detecting a pattern here. State secrets it seems has nothing to do with signals intelligence, military planning or armamentsthe things traditionally associated with state secrets. No, when the Bush Justice Department uses the term, it means something else: it refers to information which, if disclosed, would be politically embarrassing to the Republican Party, and as to which no other privilege is available. The state secrets privilege has literally emerged as the Bush Administrations new get-out-of-jail-free card.

The APs Pete Yost reports:

The Bush Administration is laying out a new secrecy defense in an effort to end a court battle about the White House visits of now-imprisoned lobbyist Jack Abramoff. (Secrecy Invoked on Abramoff Lawsuits - http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jqNPqvQT05DQyiW1KlCSU0XQpPBgD8T8SKGG0 )

.....

White House responses to inquiries up to this point have furnished specific evidence of intentional evasionwhat in other circumstances (as for instance when it is enforcing rather than subverting the law) the Justice Department would call obstruction of justice. For instance, Vice President Cheney gave specific guidance to the Secret Service to destroy records of visits to his office and to stop the practice of recording future visits. President Bush made a number of statements refusing to give a specific account of his meetings with Abramoff, which reportedly have been frequent.

.... MUST READ ....

==============
From: President Bush and Jack Abramoff meetings " reportedly have been frequent"
Dec-02-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2392986

http://images.dailykos.com.nyud.net:8080/images/user/1237/Abramoff.jpg

THE PRESIDENT: There is a serious investigation going on by federal prosecutors, and that's their job. And they will -- if they believe something was done inappropriately in the White House, they'll come and look, and they're welcome to do so. There's a serious investigation that's going on.

Q But, sir, don't you want to tell the American people look, as I promised, this White House isn't for sale and I'm not for sale?

THE PRESIDENT: It's hard for me to say I didn't have pictures with the guy when I did.

-------------
When George Met Jack
Sunday, Jan. 22, 2006 By ADAM ZAGORIN, MIKE ALLEN
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1151784,00.html

As details poured out about the illegal and unseemly activities of Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff, White House officials sought to portray the scandal as a Capitol Hill affair with little relevance to them. Peppered for days with questions about Abramoff's visits to the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan said the now disgraced lobbyist had attended two huge holiday receptions and a few "staff-level meetings" that were not worth describing further. "The President does not know him, nor does the President recall ever meeting him," McClellan said.

The President's memory may soon be unhappily refreshed. TIME has seen five photographs of Abramoff and the President .....

............
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Bush's Blatant Attempt to Obstruct and End the Abramoff Investigation
Bush's Blatant Attempt to Obstruct and End the Abramoff Investigation
by Martin Garbus - January 29, 2006 - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/bushs-blatant-attempt-to_b_14700.html


At some point, it all becomes unbelievable.

President George W. Bush has not made many moves more unethical than offering Noel L. Hillman, the Abramoff prosecutor, a federal judgeship. Hillman has apparently been talking with Bush's representatives since last year, and on last Thursday, he publicly announced he was accepting the appointment.

Let me make this perfectly clear. At the same time that Mr. Hillman was conducting a grand jury and submitting evidence aimed at Bush's allies and perhaps Bush himself, he was meeting with Bush, who was, in effect, offering him a bribe.

Mr. Hillman, Bush is saying, leave the job, let me put someone else in your stead, someone I want. Forget, says Mr. Bush, that you have been in charge of the investigation for two years, that you have been involved on a day-to-day basis, and that your leaving seriously impedes the investigation.

All this had been kept quiet until Thursday, January 26, 2006. Neither the Bush administration nor Mr. Hillman thought it appropriate to let anyone know what was going on until the deal was done. Secrecy, the modus operandi of this administration, kept the information from the public.

President Richard Nixon was the last one who tried something like this, but he didn't get away with it. ....

=============
FROM: HORTON: The Case of the Amazing Vanishing Corruption Investigation = ON ABRAMOFF
Mar-17-08 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3022643#3041116
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. A New Specter of Criminality? Jack Abramoff and White House officials
A New Specter of Criminality? Jack Abramoff and his associates and White House officials

Dan Froomkin - May 23, 2007 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/05/23/BL2007052300893_pf.html

.............. A New Specter of Criminality?

Scot J. Paltrow writes in the Wall Street Journal: ... "It is the first indication that Abramoff-related probes, mainly limited until now to his dealings with lawmakers and federal agency officials, may be advancing into the White House. The former Rove aide, Susan Ralston, previously had served as a top aide to Mr. Abramoff."

Waxman's memo is worth a read.... "In September 2006, Chairman Davis and Ranking Member Waxman released a staff report summarizing what the Committee had learned from a review of billing records and e-mails provided to the Committee by Mr. Abramoff's former lobbying firm, Greenberg Traurig. According to these billing records and e-mails, Mr. Abramoff and his associates had 485 lobbying contacts with White House officials between January 2001 and March 2004. ......"

..... The e-mails and billing records described some instances in which White House officials took actions sought by Mr. Abramoff ....

The Waxman memo quotes Ralston's attorney, former assistant White House counsel Brad Berenson ... "The subjects this morning that she will be unable to testify to on those grounds are the subjects of the relationship between Jack Abramoff and his associates and White House officials, including Ms. Ralston, and the subject of the use by White House officials of political e-mail accounts at the RNC." ... "She has material, useful information about both of those subjects. She is more than willing to provide it to the committee. However, she will, as we have previously discussed, require a grant of immunity before she is comfortable going forward." ...........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Susan Ralston, White House aide resigns in scandal = "go-between" Abramoff to Rove
Susan Ralston a "go-between" Abramoff to Rove and his then-deputy, Ken Mehlman

Take note of the timeline. Oct. 12, 2006 was amidst the cover-up by McCain,
et.al., in the election run-up. To what extent was this a "fall-gal" operation,
and to what extent must we now follow the trail deeper into the White House
to the true puppet masters in the crimes?

==================
White House aide resigns in influence-peddling scandal
By Patrick Martin - 12 October 2006
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/oct2006/rals-o12.shtm...

The congressional report found that Ralston had accepted expensive tickets from Abramoff to sports events and concerts on at least nine occasions. In the course of at least 69 documented contacts with Abramoff, she served as a go-between to bring his most urgent requests to the notice of Rove and his then-deputy, Ken Mehlman, now chairman of the Republican National Committee.

The report found that Abramoff and his lobbying associates spent nearly $25,000 on meals and tickets for White House officials, much of this on Ralston. One set of four tickets for a Washington Wizards basketball game cost nearly $1,300.

These sums were expended to gain access. Rove, for example, joined Abramoff in his box at an NCAA college basketball tournament game in 2002, although he reimbursed the lobbyist for the cost of the ticket. Afterwards Abramoff boasted to an associate that Rove told me anytime we need something just let him know through Susan.

In October 2001, she relayed a memo to Rove from Abramoff about withholding a Republican political endorsement in the Mariana Islands governors race. The following day she e-mailed Abramoff, You win. KR says no endorsement, reporting that Rove had agreed.

In another case, Mehlman apparently helped an Abramoff-represented Indian tribe get a $16 million federal grant to build a new jail. Abramoff thanked him with free tickets to a rock concert. .........

=================
Hopping along the E-Mail Trail: Springsteen, Abramoff, $16.3 million, "massages, hookers, whatever"
Lobbyists: Sports Tickets and SpringsteenThe E-Mail Trail
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15081799/site/newsweek

...new e-mails showing that Rove's office had far more extensive conduct with convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff than previously acknowledged. The e-mails, obtained by a House committee, show that Rove's executive assistant, Susan Ralston, may have violated a White House ban on accepting gifts...

........Ralston also discussed future business opportunities with Abramoff, such as her plan to help him capitalize on the "rush to get lucrative government contracts" being awarded by the Department of Homeland Securityanother possible breach of ethics rules. .........

.......The e-mails show Rove's then chief political deputy, Ken Mehlman, now chairman of the Republican National Committee, had his own repeated contacts with Abramoffin stark contrast to previous public statements. According to the new records, Abramoff and his associates turned to Mehlman in their bid to obtain $16.3 million in federal funds from the Justice Department to build a jail .........After Justice later approved funding ....another Abramoff associate e-mailed a colleague: "Those guys should get anything they want for the rest of the time they're in office ... Opening Day tickets, Skins v. Giants, oriental massages, hookers, whatever ... " Mehlman denied any wrongdoing..........


=================
FROM: DEAL OR NO DEAL? Abramoff's and Rove's ex-aide has "useful information" about Abramoff, White House
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x995236
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Special Counsel Probe Into Roves Politicization Of Government Advances
As you can see by the date stamps, the title of the first article appears to be false!
Nonetheless, seems to me this is the stuff that worries Karl. In this case, the punishment
is loss of your job with USG. Well, guess what, that happened! Guilty as charged, Karl?

If the guilty as charges was subverting the GSA, that is $$ big ticket $$ violation of the Hatch Act
that probably also warrants a grand jury to investigate defrauding USG to benefit political candidates.

================
Special Counsel Probe Into Roves Politicization Of Government Advances
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/16/counsel-hatch-probe/

The Office of Special Counsel, which has already recommended that GSA chief Lurita Doan be suspended or fired for participating in partisan activities while on the job, is now moving forward with its investigation of nearly 20 other administration agencies.

Eighteen agencies have been asked by the Office of Special Counsel to preserve electronic information dating back to January 2001 ... to preserve all e-mail records, calendar information, phone logs and hard drives going back to the beginning of the Bush administration ...

The White House has admitted that roughly 20 agencies have received a PowerPoint briefing created by Karl Roves office that included slides listing Democratic and Republican seats the White House viewed as vulnerable in 2008, a map of contested Senate seats and other information on 2008 election strategy.

Politicization of the federal government has been illegal for decades. The 1939 Hatch Act specifically prohibits ..........

=======================
From: Has Rove's Egg Hatched? The Firing of KARL ROVE or Why His Family Needs Him Now.
Aug-15-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1591504

Comments:
With Rove out, it is time to reexamine the e-mails issue in light of the "EVERYONE IS GUILTY" possibility!!!
How many Hatch Act violation are there?
How many other issues are nagging Karl Rove? The USA firings ....

However, the issue that just pushed Rove out is likely Hatch Act and Presidential Records Act violations.
In particular, Rove was the author of the PowerPoint presentation at issue in the Doan investigation.


========================
From: GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY. Is Everyone in the WHITE HOUSE Going to the "OUT" House?
Jun-08-07 0 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1069515

Did years of White House e-mail evaporate into a cyber black hole because EVERYONE
was using dot.gov accounts to do Bush Cheney 2004 campaigning on the taxpayers dime?

OR, Will they ALL have to RESIGN? YES, if they were campaigning on the taxpayer's clock?
Perhaps we have been missing what has been obvious to Waxman, et.al., all along.

What constitutes a Hatch Act violation? ANY political activity on USG time, ANY.
It does not matter if it is a dot.gov or rnc.com e-mail if the person is on the clock,
at work in an official capacity. If anything at all is done on a CAMPAIGN it is a
Hatch Act violation. Read ILLEGAL. Read a CRIME. Read getting flushed!!

While researching Tim Griffin---the vote-caging, Rovian, just-resigned, Patriot Act implant
USA in Arkansas---and his vote caging e-mail that landed in the lap of Greg Palast, I noticed
that some of the e-mails had dot.gov addresses AND were being used to conduct campaign business.
This adds one huge illegal dimension to the mis-directed e-mails in addition to voter caging,
Hatch Act violations.


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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-20-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for the RFK interview
K & R
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. Have to get this to the greatest page
thanks for all the info as it fits in nicely with my theory that they will be paying for all this criminal activity. bushco is going down and going down in a big way when they do. That day will be a big day in American History years from now.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. "The emphasis should be on "seems to me"" seems to be good advice.
Especially where celebrity journalism is involved.

Thanks for taking the time to think this out and howl from the wood, L.

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. USA Firings = The Rovian Theory by Dan Froomkin
The Rovian Theory by Dan Froomkin - Special to washingtonpost.com
March 23, 2007; 1:50 PM - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/03/23/BL2007032301067_pf.html


Why are President Bush's Democratic critics so focused on getting White House political guru Karl Rove's testimony regarding the firing of eight U.S. attorneys?

Because based on Rove's history, the whole thing may well have been his idea -- and may be even more complicated than it initially appeared.

... Alexis Simendinger writes ... "White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove may have forfeited potential claims of executive privilege over the dismissals of eight U.S. attorneys-- if he communicated about the latter outside the White House e-mail system, using his Republican National Committee e-mail account or RNC equipment. Or at least that's a legal possibility posed by rapidly advancing electronic technology and the evolving work habits of busy White House officials. . . .

"According to one former White House official familiar with Rove's work habits, the president's top political adviser does 'about 95 percent' of his e-mailing using his RNC-based account. Many White House officials, including aides in the Political Affairs Office, use the RNC account as an alternative to their official government e-mail addresses to help keep their official and political duties separate. Although some White House officials use dual sets of electronic devices for that purpose,

Rove prefers to use his RNC-provided BlackBerry for convenience, the former official said. . . .

==================
FROM: Email-Gate FACTS: Felons, georgewbush.com, gwb43.com , et. al.
Mar-28-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x523978#524521

This may be the 'Mother of All' compilation threads. Most of the links are to other DU threads,
made over a month in spurts of reading DU posts, interspersed between SW desert visits to ancient ruins.
DU kept me fully informed in quick order each time I returned to the connected world.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. E-Mail Shows Roves Role in Fate of Prosecutors = "signs off on every nomination"
Cryptic thank-you note may link Rove to US Attorney scandal
March 28, 2007 - http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Cryptic_thankyou_note_may_link_Rove_0328.html


A previously overlooked e-mail from the Department of Justice document dump may turn out to be a smoking gun, of sorts, that links White House Adviser Karl Rove to the US Attorney firing scandal, reports Newsweek.

"New Mexico Republican Sen. Pete Domenici's chief of staff sent a cryptic thank-you note to Karl Rove just as the senator was recommending replacements for David Iglesias, the fired U.S. attorney in New Mexico, according to internal White House and Justice Department documents," writes Michael Isikoff.

"Thanks for everything," read the e-mail, dated January 8th, 2007, which included the name of a replacement candidate for Iglesias' position.

The email, which was sent to Rove and two other White House officials, may have been initially overlooked because it was sent to a more obscure e-mail account of Rove's.

......

====================
E-Mail Shows Roves Role in Fate of Prosecutors
DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and JIM RUTENBERG - March 29, 2007 - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/washington/29rove.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, March 28 Almost every Wednesday afternoon, advisers to President Bush gather to strategize about putting his stamp on the federal courts and the United States attorneys offices.

The group meets in the Roosevelt Room and includes aides to the White House counsel, the chief of staff, the attorney general and Karl Rove, who also sometimes attends himself. Each of them signs off on every nomination.

Mr. Rove, a top adviser to the president, takes charge of the politics. As caretaker to the administrations conservative allies, Mr. Rove relays their concerns, according to several participants in the Wednesday meetings. And especially for appointments of United States attorneys, he manages the horse trading.

What Karl would say is, Look, if this senator who has been working with the president on the following things really wants this person .......
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Rove is always thinking many steps ahead
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 12:08 PM by formercia
like a good chess player, he looks at every potential move and calculates the outcomes, so to say, he's in a state of panic a reach.
Like him or not, Rove is a very crafty fellow.

It's all perception at this point. Perception is a Rovian primary weapon, and a very powerful one at that.



catching Karl. Just when you think you have him, he squeals and bolts.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Two years ago. Target Letter Drives Rove Back to Grand Jury
Target Letter Drives Rove Back to Grand Jury
Jason Leopold - 26 April 2006 - http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/59/19369

Karl Rove's appearance before a grand jury in the CIA leak case Wednesday comes on the heels of a "target letter" sent to his attorney recently by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, signaling that the Deputy White House Chief of Staff may face imminent indictment, sources that are knowledgeable about the probe said Wednesday.

It's unclear when Fitzgerald sent the target letter to Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin. Sources close to the two-year-old leak investigation said when Rove's attorney received the letter Rove volunteered to appear before the grand jury for an unprecedented fifth time to explain why he did not previously disclose conversations he had with the media about covert CIA operative Valerie Plame and her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who criticized the Bush administration's use of pre-war Iraq intelligence.

A federal grand jury target letter is sent to a person in a criminal investigation who is likely to be indicted. ....
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I was thinking the same thing. n/t
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. Rove will PAY,...
,...DEARLY!!!
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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. budd dwyer
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 05:58 PM by babydollhead
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. Dan Abrams Letter to Karl Rove = April 21, 2008
And the actors are back on stage, just as expected.

=================
A Letter to Karl Rove
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-abrams/a-letter-to-karl-rove_b_97815.html

April 21, 2008

Dear Mr. Rove:

I write in response to your letter about my coverage of the Siegelman case -- a case we have been covering extensively. Its potential significance to the American justice system extends well beyond the halls of the Alabama Statehouse.

Your letter poses questions that you believe I should have asked as part of our coverage, but many of the most significant ones only you can answer. .......

.....

in light of our seemingly shared desire to mine for the truth, I would invite you to answer some crucial questions about this case on my program or in a written response:

1) You say you "certainly didn't meet with anyone at the Justice Department or either of the two US attorneys in Alabama about investigating or indicting Siegelman." Did you talk to, or otherwise communicate with, any of them about it even if you did not meet? ........
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. On VIDEO: Dan Abrams Responds to Karl Rove regarding Siegelman coverge.
Edited on Tue Apr-22-08 12:00 AM by L. Coyote
VERDICT: Dan Abrams Responds to Karl Rove regarding Siegelman coverge.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x122425

Run time: 05:04
RATE AT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzHnuCguN_0 = Just posted, 1 comment.

I notice Abrams gets the chronology wrong. And they focus on Rove, instead of on crimes,
like illegal campaign contributions and stealing the election. Shoddy journalism, this wrong focus!!

And, Relax Dan!! Drink less caffeine or something.

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WHAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. tricking-out defense strategy...
that's the impression I got watching Abrams.

It's an intuitive conclusion, nothing else. I've become more skeptical and paranoid in the last few years)

I think the best of RFK, Jr interview was in third part when Siegelman was discussing election misconduct. Maybe because that is one of the most important issues to me and I'm longing for an exposure that can't be covered-up or twisted.

I've been following these discussions for a long time. Thanks for info.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Abrams deserves closer scrutiny, that is for certain. Is he the "fall-back" coach,
defining what can already be proven, obfuscating all else, and just playing the rebel R for ratings.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. Patrick Fitzgerald was targeted by Republicans, Rove implicated by testimony.
No one should be shocked that Fitzgerald was targeted
John Kass - April 24, 2008 - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-24-apr24,1,5491355.column

... Wednesday's news out of the Tony Rezko corruption trial that frightened boss hog Illinois Republicans reportedly reached out to Bush White House political guru Karl Rove, asking Rove to rid them of troublesome federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

..... Republican bosses Big Bob Kjellander (pronounced $hell-and-der) and Big Bill Cellini did not appreciate the feds poking around ...

Neither Cellini nor Kjellander have been charged with a federal crimeyet.

In the meantime, Cellini has been named as "Co-schemer A" and Kjellander as "Individual K" in Rezko court documents. ......

Ata "had conversations with Mr. Rezko about the fact that Mr. Kjellander was working with Karl Rove to have Mr. Fitzgerald removed," Assistant U.S. Atty Carrie Hamilton told the court......
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. Patrick Fitzgerald was targeted by Republicans, Rove implicated by testimony.
No one should be shocked that Fitzgerald was targeted
John Kass - April 24, 2008 - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-24-apr24,1,5491355.column

... Wednesday's news out of the Tony Rezko corruption trial that frightened boss hog Illinois Republicans reportedly reached out to Bush White House political guru Karl Rove, asking Rove to rid them of troublesome federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

..... Republican bosses Big Bob Kjellander (pronounced $hell-and-der) and Big Bill Cellini did not appreciate the feds poking around ...

Neither Cellini nor Kjellander have been charged with a federal crimeyet.

In the meantime, Cellini has been named as "Co-schemer A" and Kjellander as "Individual K" in Rezko court documents. ......

Ata "had conversations with Mr. Rezko about the fact that Mr. Kjellander was working with Karl Rove to have Mr. Fitzgerald removed," Assistant U.S. Atty Carrie Hamilton told the court......

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
30. Daniel Schorr: Rove leak is just part of larger scandal = from the July 15, 2005 edition
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 10:21 AM by L. Coyote
Rove leak is just part of larger scandal
Daniel Schorr - July 15, 2005 - http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0715/p09s02-cods.html


WASHINGTON Let me remind you that the underlying issue in the Karl Rove controversy is not a leak, but a war and how America was misled into that war.

In 2002 President Bush, having decided to invade Iraq, was casting about for a casus belli.

...

One can imagine the fury in the White House. We now know from the e-mail traffic of Time's correspondent Matt Cooper that five days after the op-ed appeared, he advised his bureau chief of a supersecret conversation with Karl Rove who alerted him to the fact that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and may have recommended him for the Niger assignment. Three days later, Bob Novak's column appeared giving Wilson's wife's name, Valerie Plame, and the fact she was an undercover CIA officer. Mr. Novak has yet to say, in public, whether Mr. Rove was his source. Enough is known to surmise that the leaks of Rove, or others deputized by him, amounted to retaliation against someone who had the temerity to challenge the president of the United States when he was striving to find some plausible reason for invading Iraq.

The role of Rove and associates added up to a small incident in a very large scandal - the effort to delude America into thinking it faced a threat dire enough to justify a war.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. Karl Christian Rove, Contributor for Fox News, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal.
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 10:16 AM by L. Coyote
Wondering which M$M to trust last? :rofl:

And, about the President's "political standing" on must ask "How's that going?"

================
Karl Christian Rove (born December 25, 1950) was Deputy Chief of Staff to President George W. Bush until his resignation on 31 August 2007. He has headed the Office of Political Affairs, the Office of Public Liaison, and the White House Office of Strategic Initiatives. Since leaving the White House, Rove has worked as a political analyst and contributor for Fox News, Newsweek, and the Wall Street Journal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

The White House Office of Strategic Initiatives (OSI) is a staff unit within the Executive Office of the President of the United States established during the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush immediately following his ascent to power. Its members report to Mr. Bush's Senior Advisor.... formerly Karl Rove.

The establishment of the Office created the position of "Director of Strategic Initiatives," which also has the title of Deputy Assistant to the President, and is located in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building. The Office's function is to focus on ideas and possible presidential actions to address issues which will contribute directly to the President's political standing. .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Office_of_Strategic_Initiatives
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
32. kick
:kick:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. The new Pentagon Propaganda Scandal illustrates the problem clearly
Edited on Tue Apr-29-08 05:03 PM by L. Coyote
and reveals the extend of behind-the-scenes machinations the Rs are capable of.

I hope those making inquiries know where to keep the focus!
I smell a huge, stinking rat, as in the ratf**kers kinda!

If so, the extent of the cover-up and the layers of deceit indicate they are covering up massive crimes.
It is the illegal campaign financing and the election theft that matter in Alabama, not Karl Rove's role in later events.

Investigate the crime, not the person.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. The Rs could not do this without
support from the big men and the hacks at M$M
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
36. House committee threatens Rove with subpoena
House committee threatens Rove with subpoena
By BEN EVANS http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_LLY8gc6av_Whr8kdxbeuy5EFXwD90D3UA00

WASHINGTON (AP) The House Judiciary Committee threatened Thursday to subpoena former White House adviser Karl Rove if he does not agree by May 12 to testify about former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman's corruption case.

In a letter to Rove's attorney, committee Democrats called it "completely unacceptable" that the Republican political strategist has rejected the panel's request for sworn testimony even as he discusses the matter publicly through the media.

"We can see no justification for his refusal to speak on the record to the committee," the letter states. "We urge you and your client to reconsider ... or we will have no choice but to consider the use of compulsory process."

Committee Democrats are investigating whether Rove and Republican appointees at the Justice Department influenced Siegelman's prosecution to kill his chances for re-election. .............
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. VIDEO: Dan Abrams Verdict : Will Rove Testify re Siegelman Prosecution
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. VIDEO: Scott Horton on Political Prosecution
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. To Win He had to cheat lie and kill
he is toast
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
41. VIDEO: Tavis Smiley Interviews Don Siegelman
Edited on Fri May-09-08 04:37 PM by L. Coyote
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. VIDEOS: RFK, Jr. interview w/ Gov. Don Siegelman
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. Mike Malloy - Karl Rove's Police State
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
44. Rove tells House panel he'll answer questions in writing
Rove tells House panel he'll answer questions in writing
Mary Orndorff - May 12, 2008 - http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2008/05/rove_tells_house_panel_hell_an.html


WASHINGTON -- Former White House political adviser Karl Rove has declined a request to testify before Congress about the criminal case against former Gov. Don Siegelman and instead made a counteroffer to answer questions in writing, Rove's attorney said Monday.

Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee had given Rove until Monday to agree to appear voluntarily, and said they would issue a subpoena if he declined. Siegelman, a Democrat, has alleged that Rove influenced the federal investigation that led to his conviction in 2006 on corruption charges. Rove has denied he interfered in the case.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said he notified the Democrats on Friday that Rove would answer written questions, but had not heard back from the committee as of Monday evening. Efforts to reach a spokeswoman for the committee Monday were unsuccessful.

.............
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Conyers to Rove: No
Conyers to Rove: No
By Paul Kiel - May 14, 2008 - http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/conyers_to_rove_no.php

House Judiciary Committee Chair John Conyers' (D-MI) response to Karl Rove's offer (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/rove_to_congress_lets_be_pen_p.php) to testify by letter: Nope.

The committee wants Rove to testify about his role in the prosecution (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/todays_must_read_311.php) of ex-Gov. Don Siegelman (D-AL), but Rove has refused to appear for a hearing, instead offering to speak privately with staff off the record. He modified that offer to testify by letter.

But Conyers says that's a no-go. If Rove is willing to create a record with a letter, he argues, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be willing to sit down with staff for an on-the-record interview. Conyers says the committee is prepared to offer "other possible accommodations, such as providing a list of initial questions that may be asked," but there must be a live interview and a transcript. Conyers again mentions the possibility of a subpoena should talks break down. ....

CONYERS' LETTER follows
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Conyers: 'We're closing in on Rove'
Conyers: 'We're closing in on Rove'
May 15, 2008 - Categories: Bad behavior - http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0508/Conyers_Were_closing_in_on_Rove.html


Just off the House floor today, the Crypt overheard House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers tell two other people: Were closing in on Rove. Someones got to kick his ass.

Asked a few minutes later for a more official explanation, Conyers told us that Rove has a week to appear before his committee. If he doesnt, said Conyers, Well do what any self-respecting committee would do. Wed hold him in contempt. Either that or go and have him arrested.

Conyers said the committee wants Rove to testify about his role in the imprisonment of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman, among other things.

We want him for so many things, its hard to keep track, Conyers said.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
45. The Exposing of Karl Rove
The Exposing of Karl Rove
Gary Ater - May 13, 2008 - http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/61565

..................

Karl Rove is now among the many whom have left the White House. Many of them, including Karl, left under some level of a black cloud such as counselor Dan Bartlett, budget director Rob Portman, chief White House attorney Harriet Miers, political director Sara Taylor, deputy national security adviser J.D. Crouch and Meghan O'Sullivan, another deputy national security adviser. Also, we must include; White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, Education Secretary Rod Paige, Attorney General John Ashcroft and Commerce Secretary Don Evans.

And of course, we can't forget Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. However, for some reason, Donald Rumsfeld still has a desk at the Pentagon...?

........
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. I never believed Rove to be a Blofeldian super-villian type
...sitting at his control station, flipping switches, playing a dozen games of 3-D chess at once and manipulating the world from afar like a maniacal puppet master, discussing philosophy and quoting poetry while trying to kill James Bond all at the same time.

Too many here ascribe some sort of super-evil intellect to the man. Granted, he may be smart, and he may be well-connected. But the game within a game within a trap within a twist within a turn within a scenario simply doesn't track in the real world no matter how much one wants it to.

He's one cog in a rather crudely constructed machine. There are others who mesh with him as he meshes with others. He's not infallible, and he's not bulletproof (figuratively speaking). He's protected, but that protection is wearing thin, and if we ever get a REAL majority back I suspect there will be no real problem unraveling the machinations that surround him. Indeed, I think it's already begun.

He's just a man, and in time that will be made clear to the rest of the world. Perhaps even some here at the DU will eventually admit it.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. INDEED, as you say "He's just a man" and he is following orders from the RNC and Bush!!
Edited on Wed May-14-08 09:47 PM by L. Coyote
I agree also "He's one cog in a ... machine" but I do not see the RNC as "rather crudely constructed."
They are more like a successful political mafia, and too many Dems have taken HITS, from JFK on....!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. VIDEO: VERDICT: Karl Rove Refuses To Testify = Abrams w/ Horton & Siegelman
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-15-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Abrams Verdict: CONYERS THREATENS TO ARREST KARL ROVE!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
49. Rove is getting nervous... he has been the master of this
disaster... now its time to take credit
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Goodnevil Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
50. Freudian Slip
"In fact, it seems you believe that the absence of any concrete evidence is itself evidence of the conspiracy. If you don't have any proof Karl Rove did it, that absence is proof enough. I am that good."

Yes, Karl, you are that good. Thanks for telling us.
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