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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:40 PM
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How Societies Regress to Become Pathocracies
A pathocracy is a social movement, society, nation, or empire wherein a small pathological minority takes control over a society of normal people. The pathological minority habitually perpetrates evil deeds on its people and/or other people.

Almost everyone knows that pathocracies have been responsible for tremendous death and destruction throughout history. What less people are willing to acknowledge is that pathocracies continue to perpetrate death and destruction today. Billions of people throughout the world live in perpetual poverty and hunger or lack access to safe water, despite the fact that the resources exist to provide adequate food and safe water to all of the worlds citizens. Millions of others are perpetually exposed to the horrors of war.

Therefore, it would behoove us all to understand how pathocracies develop and perpetrate their damage, and how to recognize them. A book on that subject, titled Political Ponerology A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes, was written by Andrew M. Lobaczewski. Lobaczewski, a psychiatrist, began the research that eventually led to the book more than half a century ago, in collaboration with other researchers, all who are all now dead. The research was conducted in secret, as the researchers were all victims of Joseph Stalins totalitarian regime, which obviously provided fodder for much of the books content.

Ive previously posted twice on DU on this subject, drawing heavily from Lobaczewskis book. My first post was titled Political Ponerology: A Science of Evil Applied for Political Purposes. In that post I discussed human evil and its effects, why many people find evil so difficult to recognize, and psychopaths in position of great power.

In my second post on the subject, titled The Role of Ideologies in the Development of Evil Regimes (Pathocracies), I briefly summarized the first post and emphasized the role of ideology in the development of pathocracies. The main thing to understand about that is that the ideology serves as a mask, to hide the actual intentions of the group, and as a motivational factor for group members. Lobaczewski explains:

Human nature demands that vile matters be haloed by an over-compensatory mystique in order to silence ones conscience and to deceive consciousness and critical faculties, whether ones own or those of others. If such a ponerogenic union could be stripped of its ideology, nothing would remain except psychological and moral pathology, naked and unattractive. Such stripping would of course provoke moral outrage, and not only among the members of the union.

In this post I go into much more detail about the development of pathocracies (referred to in Lobaczewskis book as the ponerogenic process). Since much of the material in the book is somewhat abstract, my goal here is to relate the principles he discusses to current day (and past) examples, in order to help make them more understandable. Lobaczewski speaks both in terms of small group processes and large scale (macrosocial) processes. It seems that most of the basic principles are similar regardless of the scale of the process.


An overview of the development of pathocracy

I thought it best to start with an overview and then come back to the specifics. This is what Lobaczewski has to say about the general process of a society regressing into a pathocracy:

Disparagement of ones inferiors

Children of the privileged classes learn to repress from their field of consciousness the uncomfortable ideas suggesting that they and their parents are benefiting from injustice against others. Such young people learn to disqualify and disparage the moral and mental values of anyone whose work they are using to over-advantage.

When you read this, think of the slave masters who justified their treatment of their slaves by explaining to their children that white supremacy over black people is natural because black people are inherently inferior or uncivilized. And think of the fact that the deaths of over a million Iraq civilians resulting from our invasion and occupation of their country have barely entered our national discussion. Some Harvard economists explain the long-lasting effects of racism in our country with respect to current economic policies:

Racial discord plays a critical role in determining beliefs about the poor. Since minorities are highly over-represented amongst the poorest Americans, any income-based redistribution measures will redistribute particularly minorities. The opponents of redistribution have regularly used race based rhetoric to fight left-wing policies Americas troubled race relations are clearly a major reason for the absence of an American welfare state.

Growing hysteria
Lobaczewski continues his description of the initial stages of developing pathocracy:

Young minds thus ingest habits of subconscious selection and substitution of data, which leads to a hysterical conversion economy of reasoning. They grow up to be somewhat hysterical adults who transmit their hysteria to the next generation The hysterical patterns for experience and behavior grow and spread downwards from the privileged classes until crossing the boundary.

Does that remind you of the state of Congress under Republican rule, and the general attitude of radical conservatives? Alan Wolf describes the mood of conservatives over the last couple of decades:

Conservatives have viewed politics as an extension of war, complete with no-holds barred treatment of the enemy, iron-clad discipline in the ranks, cries of treason against those who do not support the effort with full-throated vigor, and total control over any spoils won.

Contempt for truth and objective thinking
Lobaczewski continues:

When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought-data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm. Contempt is also shown for other nations which have maintained normal thought-patterns and for their opinions.

Think about the how radical conservatives disparage the patriotism of anyone who disagrees with our current imperial course. Think about the firing of Phil Donohue for daring to criticize the invasion of Iraq. Think about the aggressive targeting of Cynthia McKinneys House seat for daring to question George Bushs handling of the 9-11 attacks on our country. Think about the muzzling of Sybil Edmunds. Think about freedom fries. Think about George Bushs war on science. And think about how so many subjects are barely mentionable in our country today.

The disintegration of society
Lobaczewskis description of societal disintegration under pathocracies reminds me of the ever expanding income gap in our country, and should serve as a warning that things can get a whole lot worse for us than they are now:

The feeling of social links and responsibility toward others disappear, and the society in question splinters into groups ever more hostile to each other This opens the door for activation of the pathological factors of a various nature to enter in A huge bloody tragedy can be the result.


Individual psychopaths

Now lets consider the process from the standpoint of the individual psychopath. Laura Knight-Jadczyk, the editor of Lobaczewskis book, quotes Martha Stout, noting that the defining characteristic of a psychopath is a lack of conscience:

Imagine if you can not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken. And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

The defining talents of the average psychopath
Most psychopaths dont have much general intelligence or even any particular skills of a productive nature. But the ones who pose great danger to society are quite good at manipulating people and political infighting. Lobaczewski explains:

Once the process of poneric transformation has begun and advanced sufficiently, they perceive this fact with almost infallible sensitivity: a circle has been created wherein they can hide their failings and psychological differentness, find a world where they are in power and all those other, normal people, are forced into servitude.

This reminds me of a biography of Joseph Stalin. One by one, over a period of several years, he isolated and the eliminated all of his minions who posed the slightest danger to his unchallengeable power. So by 1937 Stalins purges had eliminated all of the original Russian Communist Party but himself.

The role of sycophancy
Can you imagine John Yoo, Alberto Gonzales, or David Petraeus going against the will of George Bush on any matter? Of course not. Their positions of high power depend entirely on putting all their energy into anticipating the needs of and pleasing the leader. George Bush started out the same way. As governor of Texas, all his efforts went into pleasing his corporate cronies. In return, they rewarded him handsomely by ensuring his material wealth and serving as a power base for his climb to the presidency. Lobaczewski describes the process.

They initially perform subordinate functions in such a movement and execute the leaders orders, especially whenever something needs to be done which inspires revulsion in others. Their evident zealotry and cynicism gives rise to criticism on the part of the unions more reasonable members, but it also earns the respect of some its more extreme revolutionaries. They thus find protection among those people who earlier played a role in the movements ponerization, and repay the favor with compliments or by making things easier for them. Thus they climb up the organizational ladder, gain influence, and almost involuntarily bend the contents of the entire group to their own way of experiencing reality and to the goals derived from their deviant nature.

Psychopaths after theyve climbed to the pinnacle of power
Lobaczewski explains that psychopaths always feel terribly insecure, even after theyve climbed to the pinnacle of power:

The pathological social structure gradually covers the entire country, creating a new class within the nation. This privileged class of deviants feels permanently threatened by the others, i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man. Pathocrats never possessed any solid practical talent, and the time frame of their rule eliminates any residual possibilities of adapting to the demands of normal work. If the laws of normal man were to be reinstated, they and theirs could be subjected to judgment they would be threatened by a loss of freedom and life, not merely a loss of position and privilege. Since they are incapable of any kind of sacrifice, the survival of a system which is the best for them becomes a moral imperative. Such a threat must be battled by means of any and all cunning and implemented with a lack of scruples with regard to those other inferior people that can be shocking in its depravity.

In other words, we should all be very worried about the lengths to which the Bush administration will go to ensure that either a Republican with benign intentions towards the Bush clique is installed as our next president or that no elections take place at all.


Turning reality upside down

As previously noted, psychopaths of any stripe or level of power cannot afford to allow others to perceive the reality of their character. Therefore, a prerequisite of attaining power is to throw everyone else into a state of confusion. Some of them are quite good at that. Lobaczewski explains:

Any human group affected by the process described herein is characterized by its increasing regression from the ability to perceive psychological reality. A ponerological analysis of this process indicates that pressure is being applied to the more normal part of the association by pathological factors present in certain individuals who have been allowed to participate in the group because the lack of good psychological knowledge has not mandated their exclusion.

An extensive and active indoctrination system is built, with a suitably refurbished ideology constituting the vehicle or Trojan horse for the purpose of pathogolizing the thought process of normal individuals and society. The goal forcing human minds to incorporate pathological experiential methods and thought patterns, and consequently accepting such rule is never openly admitted.

Thus it was that Hitler needed his Goebbels to indoctrinate the German people into a way of thinking that was conducive to Nazi attainment and maintenance of power. Thus it is that the Bush administration uses taxpayer money to provide us with propaganda disguised as news. And thus it is that we repeatedly hear We have to fight them over there if we dont want to fight them here, while our confused and sycophantic corporate news media rarely challenges such inanely stupid assertions.

I often wonder if this phenomenon also partially explains why Congress is so reluctant to proceed with impeachment. Could it be that they are so confused or intimidated that they cant differentiate reality from the fairy tales spewed out by the Bush administration?


The marginalization and exclusion of normal people

Psychopaths cannot tolerate the presence of normal people because normal people are not at all conducive to their plans. Lobaczewski explains:

Rigorous selective measures of a clearly psychological kind are applied to new members. So as to exclude the possibility of becoming sidetracked by defectors, people are observed and tested to eliminate those characterized by excessive mental independence or psychological normality Individuals manifesting doubt or criticism are subject to paramoral condemnation Leadership discusses opinions and intentions which are psychologically and morally pathological.

A mysterious disease is already raging inside the union. The adherents of the original ideology feel ever more constricted by powers they do not understand; they start fighting with demons and making mistakes.

If such a movement triumphs by revolutionary means and in the name of freedom, the welfare of the people, and social justice, this only brings about further transformation of a governmental system thus created into a macrosocial pathological phenomenon. Within this system, the common man is blamed for not having been born a psychopath, and is considered good for nothing except hard work, fighting and dying to protect a system of government he can neither sufficiently comprehend nor ever consider to be his own. An ever-strengthening network of psychopathic and related individuals gradually starts to dominate, overshadowing the others. Characteropathic individuals who played an essential role in ponerizing the movement and preparing for revolution, are also eliminated. Adherents of the revolutionary ideology are unscrupulously pushed into a counter-revolutionary position. They are now condemned for moral reasons in the name of new criteria whose paramoralistic essence they are not in a position to comprehend. Violent negative selection of the original group now ensues. It remains characteristic for the entire future of this macrosocial pathological phenomenon.

Think about the Stalin purges, the Bush administration firing of any federal attorneys who wouldnt play ball with it, the resignations of high military leaders whose opinions were not in synch with George Bush, the firing of Phil Donohue, and the targeting of Cynthia McKinney. And more ominously, think about Paul Wellstones plane crash, the assassination of JFK and Martin Luther King, and the suicides of J. H. Hatfield, Cliff Baxter, Raymond Lemme, David Kelly, Ted Westhusing and Gary Webb.


The response of normal individuals

Even though psychopaths are greatly outnumbered in the general population (about 4% - 6%), the development of pathocracies are an all too frequent phenomenon in world history. Clearly, normal individuals frequently fail to adequately counteract the problem. One of their biggest mistakes is to adopt an uncritical attitude towards psychopaths, as Lobaczewski explains:

Thus, whenever we observe some group member being treated with no critical distance, although he betrays one of the psychological anomalies familiar to us, and his opinions being treated as at least equal to those of normal people, although they are based on a characteristically different view of human, we must derive the conclusion that this human group is affected by a ponerogenic process and if measures are not taken the process shall continue to its logical conclusion.

As Ive previously noted, exposure to psychopaths is frequently a very disorienting event for normal people. They can respond in one of three ways: adopt the alternate reality of the group; leave; or, remain confused and in a state of psychological terror. Lobaczewski describes the situation:

Once a group has inhaled a sufficient dose of pathological material to give birth to the conviction that these not-quite-normal people are unique geniuses, it starts subjecting its more normal members to pressure characterized by corresponding paralogical and paramoral elements. For many people, such pressure of collective opinion takes on attributes of a moral criterion; for others, it represents a kind of psychological terror ever more difficult to endure Individuals with a more normal sense of psychological reality leave after entering into conflict with the newly modified group; simultaneously, individuals with various psychological anomalies join the group and easily find a way of life there.


What normal members of the group need

Lobaczewski explains what normal people need under such circumstances (and this applies for whole societies as well as small groups):

What they need is good psychological information in order to find the path of reason and measure. Based on a ponerologic understanding of their condition, psychotherapy could provide rapid positive results.

And I will add here that this is why so many of us DUers love people like Dennis Kucinich (who publicly told us the obvious but unmentionable reason for the Iraq War), Keith Olbermann, Naomi Klein, and Naomi Wolf. Many or most normal people sense that something terrible is happening, but they just cant bring themselves to acknowledge it even to themselves. But when some brave soul has the courage to announce that the emperor has no clothes after all, that helps to bring a sense of reality back to anyone who has the courage to listen. As an example, here is a quote from one of Keith Olbermanns special comments:

Were there any remaining lingering doubt otherwise it ended yesterday when Mr. Bush commuted the prison sentence of one of his own staffers In that moment, Mr. Bush, you broke that fundamental compact between yourself and the majority of this nations citizens you ceased to be the president of the United States You became merely the president of a rabid and irresponsible corner of the Republican Party. And this is too important a time, sir, to have a commander in chief who puts party over nation. This has been, of course, the gathering legacy of this administration

Our leaders in Congress must now live up to those standards which echo through our history: Impeach get you, Mr. Bush, and Mr. Cheney, two men who are now perilous to our democracy, away from the helm.


The terror phase

As a society regresses to pathocracy, it is inevitable that at some point the majority of normal members of society will catch on. The salient question is whether they will do so before it is too late to prevent massive and irreparable harm. Lobaczewski explains this process:

The rejected majority and the very forces which naively created such power to begin with, start mobilizing against the block of psychopaths who have taken over. Ruthless confrontation with these forces is seen by the psychopathic block as the only way to safeguard the long-term survival of the pathological authority. We must thus consider the bloody triumph of a pathological minority over the movements majority to be a transitional phase during which the new contents of the phenomenon coagulate. The entire life of a society thus affected then becomes subordinated to deviant thought criteria.

To mitigate the threat to their power, the pathocrats must employ any and all methods of terror and exterminatory policies against individuals known for their patriotic feelings. Individuals lacking the natural feeling of being linked to normal society become irreplaceable

As an example, Naomi Klein, in Shock Therapy The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, describes the terror that encompassed Chile in 1973 following the CIA sponsored overthrow of their president:

The generals knew that their hold on power depended on Chileans being truly terrifiedThe trail of blood left behind over those four days came to be known as the Caravan of Death. In short order the entire country had gotten the message: resistance is deadly In all, more than 3,200 people were disappeared or executed, at least 80,000 were imprisoned, and 200,000 fled the country.

Nor was that the end of it. Over the next several months and years, anyone whose independent thoughts were considered to pose a danger to Pinochets regime were systematically tortured or eliminated.


Why pathocracy cannot be permanent

Pathocracies cannot be permanent, because of their many inherent deficiencies. Lobaczewski explains:

The achievement of absolute domination by pathocrats in the government of a country cannot be permanent since large sectors of the society become disaffected by such rule and eventually find some way of toppling it. This is part of the historical cycle. Such a system of government has nowhere to go but down. In a pathocracy, all leadership positions must be filled by individuals with corresponding psychological deviations However, such people constitute a very small percentage of the population and this makes them more valuable to the pathocrats. Their intellectual level or professional skills cannot be taken into account, since people representing superior abilities are even harder to find..

Under such conditions, no area of social life can develop normally Pathocracy progressively paralyzes everything. Normal people must develop a level of patience pathocracy progressively intrudes everywhere and dulls everything. Thus, the pathological minoritys attempts to retain power will be threatened by the society of normal people, whose criticism keeps growing.

The entire effort only results in producing a general stifling of intellectual development and deep rooted protest against hypocrisy. The authors and executors of this program are incapable of understanding that the decisive factor making their work difficult is the fundamental nature of normal human beings the majority. The entire system of force, terror, and forced indoctrination, or, rather, pathologization, thus proves effectively unfeasible Reality places a question mark on their conviction that such methods can change people in such fundamental ways so that they can eventually recognize this pathocratic kind of government as a normal state


Pathocracies in perspective

But we should not take much satisfaction in the inevitable fall of pathocracies, since they so frequently do such tremendous harm before they fall. It would be far better if we could learn to prevent their rise in the first place.

One of the many great insights of the founders of our country is that they anticipated the rise of pathocracy in the nation that they founded. They therefore wrote into its Constitution numerous plans for the balancing of power and for the peaceful removal from office of chief executives or others who proved to put their own needs and desires above those of our nation.

It was a great idea. But it can only work to the extent that our elected government officials have the courage to open their eyes to the danger and take action against it, as so clearly prescribed in our Constitution. It is now long past the time that those with open eyes and minds should have seen and understood the gathering danger.

If our Congress fails to take the appropriate action, theyll have set a terrible precedent for our nation. In that event, even if our current government does not perpetrate substantially more harm to us before they leave, Congress will have left the door wide open for future governments to do so.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Haven't finished it yet, but proud to be the first K&R.
The previous two threads on this subject have been extremely interesting.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Thank you EOTE for getting this one started
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Provocative. Unfortunately some of the final conclusions are somewhat dated.
"The achievement of absolute domination by pathocrats in the government of a country cannot be permanent since large sectors of the society become disaffected by such rule and eventually find some way of toppling it."

While I'd love to believe that its true, I find this quote to be too vague and without context to consider. Although 'permanence' is a politically impossible concept, we simply don't know low long absolute domination by pathocrats can last anymore given the tightening of the technological noose. The technological climate we live in was unthinkable 50 years ago. A century of industrial technoscience has given the wealthy and the powerful the following at their fingertips:

*the ability to read minds (see brain fingerprinting)
*the ability to read body gestures (experts in body psychology are stationed in Airports)
*remote viewing through satellite imagery (imagine the capability of Google Earth in 5 years)
*night vision, infrared vision
*internet surveillance, data mining, keystroke recording
*ubiquitous and hidden CCTV
*GPS tracking in cell phones, cars.
*RFID chips
*credit and debit card trails
*DNA evidence
*microwave crowd control
*24 hour opinion shaping through cable television and the MSM
*electronic fences and 'unmanned aerial devices'
*photoshop, and the climate of photoshop (all visual data is inconclusive)

Sure we can 'resist'. We can engage in 'subveillance'--policing the police and so forth. We can share information more freely (although without privacy) over the internet. But I would argue that by creating a spectacle of state and corporate crimes all we are doing is adding to the atmosphere of fear and powerlessness. So long as our 'disaffection' is less than our fear of personal risk acting, the pathocracy will remain unchallenged.

That's not to say that it's permanent. In fact, a positive, inspirational political event could transform this nation overnight as thoroughly as 9-11 did. But I think it's foolish to believe that this will happen because of some sort of 'tipping point' based on misery. If we're waiting for things to get 'bad enough' we might want to take a look at all the miserable, destitute peoples of the world who have never revolted. We also could look at May of 68 in France where millions of students and workers took over the nation in a wave of political resistance that began with anger over the presence of police on a college campus after a fight between student groups.

No, the pathocracy won't be permanent because nothing is permanent. But there is nothing saying it can't last a hundred years or more.


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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. You're just a big bundle of joy, aren't you?
I think I'll be killing myself now. I'm not sure if I have the patience to wait another 92 years for this country to return to normalcy.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. If you think my assessment of the problem is bleak, wait'll you hear my possible solutions!
Heh, heh. Not on the internet, though.

Actually, if you're just looking for normalcy, I think we might get that in November. But by normalcy, I mean sufficiently hiding the political truth about what our government does with our tax dollars like we did during the 70s and 80s. Not many people knew about our role in propping up Pinochet and the whole Latin American death squad thing. There was Iran-Contra, but who could follow it. They might have mercy on us and hide their dirty work again. Although, they used to hide it for fear we'd revolt. They don't fear revolt anymore.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. They don't fear anything, do they?
I never thought I'd see such brazen flaunting of the law by public officials in my lifetime. At least not in this country. I honestly don't know what I'll do if more shenanigans (sorry for the euphemism, but I'm drained) occur this November and once again Democracy is denied. I've never been more paranoid in my life. I'm interested in hearing about your possible solutions, if you feel a PM is safe enough.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I didn't say that we should just wait for things to get better, nor did I mean to imply that
Lobaczewski made the statement about pathocracies not being permanent based on the historical record, as well as the reasons that weigh against permanency that I mentioned in the post.

But you're right that he could be wrong about that.

But even if he is right about that, it would provide no reason whatsoever for not taking action to prevent the pathocracy from taking over. In fact, that is precisely why Lobaczewski wrote the book -- to help people to recognize these situations in order to better prevent them. Even if it's not permanent the damage that is done in human lives and treasure destroyed is of monumental proportions -- whether it be 2 years or 200. No sane person would ever suggest that the lack of permanency should be a reason for relaxing our guard over threats such as these.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Oh, I wasn't insinuating that those were your words at all. And I thank you for posting this.
I think it's a very interesting analysis. My point was that there have been serious developments since mid-20th century that limit his hypothesis regarding possible outcomes. The terms are entirely different now, given multinational capital (which is in itself pathological) and its supranational governmental agencies and organizations (WTO, GATT, etc.) I also think that we are well into pathocracy already. But I certainly think there is no call for relaxing our guard. Quite the opposite. I think we've relaxed our guard for too long and I think the window of opportunity for social transformation is almost completely shut (But I think in terms of history! By almost shut, I mean I think we might have just a decade or two--maybe less.)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Yes, I agree that things have changed quite a bit, and
I also agree that it is possible that pathocracies could last for quite a long time in today's world (debating whether they could be "permanent" or not is besides the point, since we will never be able to prove it one way or the other in our lifetime).

I do think though that Lobaczewski's thoughts that argue for a limited time span for pathocracies are still valid because pathocracies are unstable in many ways, and those in charge of them lack intelligence in some very important areas. But there are so many variables involved that we can't make an accurate estimate on how long any individual pathocracy will last.

I also agree with you that we are well into pathocracy in this country. I hope you're wrong the the window of opportunity to reverse it is nearly shut, though I fear you could be right. No matter, though. We need to do what we can to open it.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. Look How Long It Took the Soviet Union to Disintegrate
Of course, part of the problem was the rest of the world blowing hot and cold....

What bothers me is that there hasn't been any other nation trying to trim Bush's sails sufficiently to register. Not yet, anyway.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. They're trying to trim his sails in Latin America -- especially Venezuela
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I took this from Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine -- The Rise of Disaster Capitalism"

Klein provides three related reasons for how Latin America has been able to get away with defying U.S. power in recent years.

First is the fact of massive amounts of grassroots popular backing for throwing off the yolk of U.S. imperialism and moving on with projects to benefit the whole population. When power is decentralized it is much more difficult to overthrow it. Removing a single leader from power is then not so easy or effective, as the U.S. found out when massive uprisings in Venezuela thwarted its attempted coup against Chavez.

Secondly, Latin American countries have decided that they have had enough of loans from the IMF, with its restrictive conditions that force millions into poverty. The rejection of IMF loans in Latin America has been so complete that their percent of the total IMF lending portfolio has shrunk from 80% in 2005 to 1% in 2007. And its not just Latin America. During the same time period the IMFs worldwide lending portfolio shrunk from $81 billion to $11.8 billion. Klein sums up the future of the IMF:

The IMF, a pariah in so many countries where it has treated crises as profit-making opportunities, is starting to wither away. The World Bank faces an equally grim future.

And finally, there is the fact that the region has become much more integrated in its effort to throw off U.S. imperialism. Many Latin American nations stand ready to share resources with neighbor nations who lack those resources. For example, Chavez has offered heavily subsidized oil to the poorer nations of the region.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. No doubt, you have shown the seriousness of some real problems that exist,
your list is succinct but by no means exhaustive, it adds a good deal of context that can not and should not be denied or ignored, and evidentiary affects of this sort might linger for generations, before being dealt with. I can only add to it. All institutions have been affected; economic, social, judiciary, educational, political, military, religious, media, etc. Almost everything that has influential power has been geared to make the majority (people of conscience) subservient to the psychopathic minority (the 6% that has no conscience), and our foreign policy is geared towards total and complete world hegemony under pathocratic rule and their version of utopia, which is essentially a utopia for the ruling class (the psychopathic 6%), and a living hell for the subservient rest of us, (the 94% people of conscience). All of this will be dealt with in time, when people learn about what psychopaths really are, i.e. their Pathocracy, and I believe that the effects of their influences will be dealt with fairly and equitably once this country and the world is governed by normal men and women, although the process might take a few generations, and many of us might not see the full benefits of this work, as there is a lot of healing to be done and damage to be repaired. Lobaczewski points this out, what we do today, is for the future of mankind.

Heres a piece of what I posted in Tfcs first Ponerology article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Imagine a country, a government and a world run by people who have a conscience, people who care about the feelings, opinions and suffering of others. Imagine a world ware governments care about the environment and the welfare of other nations. But I think the most important thing to imagine is that there will be a future for humanity, a future with out war, a future with out poverty and slavery, a future ware mankind can become what he was meant to be, in the words of JFK Free and Independent.


But before that can happen, those of us who understand whats going on, need to start showing and informing those that dont. And the more people that understand that psychopaths believe themselves to be far superior to the rest of us, and that they believe that conscience is a defect rather than a virtue of compassion, remorse, caring, being your brothers keeper and treating others the way that you would want to be treated; these things most people take for granted are the things that the psychopaths considers as nothing more than the inferior weaknesses of 94% of the human population, and It is those supposed weaknesses in us, that they control us with, and deify themselves. They believe it is their right and their duty to rule over and control us in a manner that is most beneficial to them. In addition, they believe the rules and laws that conscience people create for the purpose of civility and equal justice for all should not apply to them, because, they believe they are superior, and such rules and laws created by conscience people (the slaves) are met to control and hinder their (the masters) right to do any thing they dam well please no mater who gets hurt in the process. In their minds the consequences of their actions do not and should not concern them, and in their minds, holding them accountable for any consequences is the real crime, a crime that conscience people do to them.

With that in mind consider the political corruption and consequences of just the last fifty years, the assassinations, overt and covert wars, scandals, 911, cover-ups and presidential pardons. And of course some people are led to believe that this is all a bunch conspiracy theories conjured up in the minds of raging lunatics. Sadly enough, those that are in denial have to totally deny the evidence cast out and covered up by the criminals them selves. How is it, that those who hold great wealth and political power, can in the eyes of normal people commit high crimes and misdemeanors, and when accused they somehow have the arbitrary right not granted to the average citizen, and they choose their own investigators, judges, and arbitrators who serve not the higher justice of which conscience men are held to account, but rather a justice concealed in the darkness of secrecy ware there is no accountability at all, besides an occasional token slap on the wrist for the benefit of the masses who will except the idea of a gesture is somehow justice served. And I know many of us angrily expect that to happen again when and if Bush and Cheney leave office, which brings me to this.

I dont think anything could drive this point home better than for people to have a good understanding that Bush and Cheney are themselves, nothing more than puppets of the pathocracy, they are not the puppet masters. Their rise to power was not the beginning of this pathocracy, and their departure will certainly not be the end. The question is and the world is waiting anxiously for an answer. Will we learn, and will we start electing people who will throw these bums out at every level and hold them accountable for their crimes?

President Woodrow Wilson: "Some of the biggest men in the U. S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

President Franklin Roosevelt: "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson... "

JFK Speech on Secret Societies and Freedom of Speech

For we are opposed, around the world, by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence; in infiltration instead of invasion; on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice; on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. Its preparations are concealed not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined, its dissenters are silenced, not praised; no expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the cold war, in short, with a wartime discipline no democracy would ever hope to wish to match


I dont have to wonder any more as to what it was that Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt and John Kennedy was telling us about, because now I know it is the influence of the psychopath
Larry
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I love those quotes of yours from Pres. Wilson, FDR, and JFK
That is really astounding. So those three were "conspiracy theorists". Maybe that should tell us something. And don't forget Eisenhower warning us of the military industrial complex.

I don't think that you would be likely to hear anything like that from high government officials today. Kucinich has said stuff like that, and Edwards has said some things that are a tiny bit similar. But I can't imagine any of the other Presidential candidates of either party saying anything like that.
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. You may have been reading my mind
As I thought about saying something like I don't think that you would be likely to hear anything like that from high government officials today. Kucinich has said stuff like that, and Edwards has said some things that are a tiny bit similar. But I can't imagine any of the other Presidential candidates of either party saying anything like that. But it looks like you beat me to it.
:toast:

The amazing thing is, is that there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of quotes that would very easily fit into and shine the light on this subject. Have you ever seen this one?

I would never have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in '47, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo. Harry S. Truman (1961)

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No I haven't
That is also an astounding quote, and another one that you're not at all likely to hear our corporate media talk about today. How did you come upon that one?
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick !
...and bookmarked for later tonight. I have read our previous posts on this subject and have thought about it quite often in oher threads...thank you for revisiting the issue....

I think this issue is an important link to the book "The End of America" By naomi wolf

do you see the connection to what is going on now?

(...I will be back later to discus more! got a "mommy night out" for the first time in over 6 months!yay!) :beer:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Yes, this post ties in very well with Naomi Wolf's "The End of America"
I talked about that book a few months ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Naomi Wolf, in her new book, The End of America Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, discusses in detail the warning signs** that signal our nations veer towards fascist dictatorship, why most Americans are blind to those signs, and things we can do about it. The book is short, very readable, well written and documented, and very likely may turn out to be one of the most important books ever written. In this post Ill describe Wolfs explanations as to why its so easy for most Americans to miss the danger signs, and then Ill talk about movements to turn back the tide in our country.

** -- Wolfs 10 warning signs are already functioning in our country. Though I listed them in my last post, Ill list them again here, since theyre so important:
 Invoking of an external threat
 Development of a paramilitary force
 Creation of a secret prison system
 Surveillance of ordinary citizens
 Arbitrary arrest and detention
 Harassing of citizens groups
 Targeting of dissenting individuals
 Intimidation of the press
 Equating dissent as treason
 Subversion of the rule of law

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ajasper Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Exacty what I was thinking
Yep - Wolf has a pretty good handle on it - I just don't think she has any idea how bad it already is - wonder if she's read Ponerology - if she hasn't she needs to. Brilliant job again, Tfc - you really, really nail it. Thanks so much!

-Jazz
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Thank you ajasper
Wolf and Lobaczewski talk about much the same issue, but from very different angles. I think they're both right on target.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great summary. Posting links to your article in several other forums, Tfc.
The same discussion in going on elsewhere but none more in depth than on the 3 threads you have started here so far. Excellent comments as well.

Awesome.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. Thank you very much Kaleko
I guess your cross-posts partly explain why this is getting so much attention :).
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. 
A good nights rest will make me ready for tomorrows big party and surprises

K&R for now, for another great post :toast:
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. K & R n/t
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. I have always wondered how these guys could live with themselves
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. The main reason: They have no consciences
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. I recieved the two copies of the book that Laura promised me today
and she included a copy of her 911 book too.

I just left the thread in the dungeon that has been taken over by her attackers. There is no one (no DUers ) posting there except them. And, of course, a couple of Laurs's friends posting enough to keep them busy.

What a fucking hoot! Those idiots haven't caught on that they are just talking to themselves!

I propose we email this link to Laura and ask her to join in. But caution her not to post the link on her blog.

That way those idiots can wear themselves out over there talking to themselves

And we can continue discussing the book as we were before we were so rudely interrupted

They'll never look around and find this thrad. They don't care about our other political stuff.They are simply the kind of RW trolls we've been outsmarting for years.

Good Show, TFC!
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. What thread are you referring to?
I'd like to read it.

Thanks!
:)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. How nice!
I sent her and her group the link, so they'll join in if they feel that it would be useful.

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Laurel Canyon Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
81. What condescension from Non-wiley Coyote!
Edited on Tue Apr-22-08 07:39 AM by Laurel Canyon
I recieved the two copies of the book that Laura promised me today
and she included a copy of her 911 book too.



Then you have successfully just wasted your money. Did Laura perhaps mention in her 911 booklet (it is *that* insubstantial, yes, issued after consultation with her ouija board space alien buddies just after 911 in a huge ***rush*** to ty and make some bucks off the tragedy) that her George-Soros connected recent Polish emigre husband, Ark Jadczyk, was (still is?) an employee of black ops Pentagon-controlled DARPA?

The answer is, no - she did not.

Let me get this right - this woman from vanity publisher Red Pill Press, Laura Knight-Jadczyk, who is successfully poisoning the well all over the internet by her whacko cult's association with the genuine 911 truth movement, is intimately linked with a Pentagon employee? An employee who is big buds with George Soros? With a top secret USA security clearance???

What a laugh, and the joke is on mugs like Coyote who don't do their homework.




I just left the thread in the dungeon that has been taken over by her attackers. There is no one (no DUers ) posting there except them. And, of course, a couple of Laurs's friends (cult followers) posting enough to keep them busy.


You forgot to mention that Laura was posting along with her stooges, some of whom pretended (Koehli for example) that they were not connected with her, when in fact they are 'true believers' and moderators on her SnOTT forums.

So - you just left, huh? I rather doubt that. The thread has been locked for some time, because Laura / DU was threatened with a lawsuit if DU continued to let Laura post libelous and defamatory claims about real living people here on this planet. Laura thinks she can spew her vile crapola all over the net at whim, but that is no longer the case. Lawyers are ready and waiting to take appropriate action against her and the QFS board, as Eic Pepin has already done.



What a fucking hoot! Those idiots haven't caught on that they are just talking to themselves!



The hoot is on you. Why? Because you read it all, and so did most folks on THIS thread. Any more inaccuracies you want to convey? You DO know the thread is locked, don't you? Are you telling porky pies here Coyote? Lies?




I propose we email this link to Laura and ask her to join in. But caution her not to post the link on her blog.




Why not post the link scaredy cat? What are you afraid of? LOL. What a coward you are. Ever hear of free speech? One rule for you, another rule for the rest of us, huh?



That way those idiots can wear themselves out over there talking to themselves




Umm, the thread is locked. Oh but you were just over there, and claim it is unlocked? I see. Who is the lying idiot then?



And we can continue discussing the book as we were before we were so rudely interrupted




You mean you can continue to propagate the spin and lies about Pornerology without any awkward questions being asked about the Soros and DARPA connected chief proponents of this obscene doctrine?

Way to go Coyote!



They'll never look around and find this thrad.




What an idiot.



They don't care about our other political stuff.




I care about free speech. Is that political stuff? Ever hear of it?



They are simply the kind of RW trolls we've been outsmarting for years.




Outsmarting? ROTFLMAO! What a condescending little specimen you are.




Good Show, TFC!



Bad show Coyote! Go read the Constitution and learn something. You disgust me.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. a society of 'normal people' doesn't allow a takeover by pathological minority
and if this screed is about the US, well, american society isn't normal, or even healthy at all.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. There are many different degrees of "normal"
Lobaczewski uses the term basically to refer to people who aren't psychopaths and who don't have other very serious mental abnormalities -- and that's how I use it in this post.

But he also points out that some societies are much more resistant to being taken over by psychopaths than others. I agree that the US is not a healthy society -- but still, the good majority of us aren't psychopaths.

I believe that this paragraph from the beginning of this OP gets to the heart of the problem with us:

Children of the privileged classes learn to repress from their field of consciousness the uncomfortable ideas suggesting that they and their parents are benefiting from injustice against others. Such young people learn to disqualify and disparage the moral and mental values of anyone whose work they are using to over-advantage.

I believe that that gets at the root of the problem, and many of our other problems have followed from that.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. I saw that paragraph's statements as being rather key to the whole thing myself
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 02:53 PM by truedelphi
A while Ago, I thought that I would take a gander at working for pay for environmental groups.

They were actually about the worst in terms of pay rate - there were at least two well known and respected environmental groups in San Francisco that were advertiaing for An Administrative Assistant. they requirred whoever had this posiition tosettle for 22 K - and also to realize that as they were salaried staff then the admin assitant couldn't ask for overtime. They would be expected to often work a 55 to 60 hour week. (Never mind that you can't even afford to live in the backseat of your car for that 22 K a year!)

As someone who over the decades has rarely escaped the designation of "working poor" I see just as much denigration from employers who are Democrats as those who are Republicans. It is just as important for affluent Dems to offer the least possible wage.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
50. "There's room at the the top, they're telling you still...
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill.
If you want to be like the folks on The Hill." ~ John Lennon
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. The K and the R
thank you.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. The B too!!!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
20. We are screwed....nevertheless...K&R
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. i love your threads on pathocracy -- thank you for taking the time to unpack this!
Lobaczewski is a difficult read -- you've done a great thing by bringing this down to earth for us.

bookmarking...!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Thank you
Yes, Lobaczewski is difficult to read, but there's a lot of good information there.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. WOW! Great post. Bookmarking your journal.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. MUST read link for those following these most EXCELLENT threads on PP.
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Rhansen Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Good find
Thanks for that, going to have to read the whole thing now.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Taylor Caldwell warned us of the Pathocracy in her 1974 novel "Captains and the Kings"
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 08:55 PM by BeHereNow
Please read the foreword, by the author, written for the youth of the time- (of which, many of US are.)

Foreword to the bestseller "Captains and The Kings" in 1972:

This book is dedicated to the young people of America, who are rebelling because they know something is very wrong in their country, but do not know just what it is. I hope this book will help to enlighten them. The historical background and the political background of this novel are authentic. The "Committee for Foreign Studies" does indeed exist, today as of yesterday, and so does the "Scardo Society," but not by these names.

There is indeed a "plot against the people" and probably always will be, for government has always been hostile towards the governed. It is not a new story, and the conspirators and conspiracies have varied form era to era, depending on the political or economic situation in their various countries.

But it was not until the era of the League of Just men and Karl Marx that conspirators and conspiracies became one, with one aim, one objective, and one determination. This has nothing to do with any "ideology" or form of government, or ideals or "materialism" or any other catch-phrases generously fed to the unthinking masses. It has absolutely nothing to do with races or religions, for the conspirators are beyond what they call "such trivialities." They are also beyond good and evil. The Caesars they put into power are their creatures, whether they know it or not, and the peoples of all nations are helpless, whether they live in America, Europe, Russia, China, Africa, or South America. They will always be helpless until they are aware of their real enemy.

President John F. Kennedy knew what he was talking about when he spoke of "the Gnomes of Zurich." Perhaps, he knew too much! Coups d'etat are an old story, but they are now growing too numerous. This is probably the last hour for mankind as a rational species, before it becomes the slave of a "planned society." A bibliography ends this book, and I hope many of my readers will avail themselves of the facts. That is all the hope I have."

Taylor Caldwell

FYI
Caldwell was investigated by the FBI for her correspondence with MLK before his assassination...
If you have not read the book, you must.
However, all reproduced copies have the foreword and the bibliography mentioned in it by the author, removed.
Any guesses as to WHO and WHAT organizations are mentioned in the censored printing of the book?

Imagine that.

BHN
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Thank you BHN, that sounds like a very interesting book
I put it on my list.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
45. Finally! Something I can wrap my mind around.
It has troubled me for years as to why things, laws, situations happen as they do. How many times I've said out loud that someone or something just didn't make much sense - at least on the surface. Puzzled over something someone said, or did, or supported, because it just made no sense.

For instance, Colin Powell: I've been angry and baffled as to why he sat there within the United Nations and made those stupid and dangerous statements that helped lead the way to attack a sovereign nation. With his background and reputation, it made no sense.

I've spent a few hours reading your post, the links and over at the ponerology.com website. In my own little simplistic world, bells were going off. Interestingly, I was able to see maybe how or why some things occurred at various times during my working career and even episodes within my own family.

I want to thank you for the time and effort you dedicated in presenting these posts. I already understood that people can be snookered into believing the unbelievable, and act and vote against their self interest; though it boggles my mind to know great masses of people behave this way. I also understood that there are evil people running things in this world. What I couldn't wrap my mind around is how all these 'evil' people, so many highly intelligent and well educated and thought highly of, found each other. Especially on such a wide scale, and be able to operate assuming they each would have varying kinds of trust issues. I wondered how evil people could 'trust' each other to carry out their multiple deeds.

This is pretty deep and heavy, but it's now beginning to make some sense, and for me, that is enormous.

I wish there was room in my budget to purchase Lobaczewski's book. I went over to the library today hoping to find it, but to no avail. I'm hoping you can find the time and continue to post more on this subject. I'm certain I am not alone in the appreciation.

Thank you.

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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
46. Bump
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. Too late to rec but here's a kick...
I just hope enough read and internalize this to keep it going around the community.

:thumbsup:



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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
48. Kick.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kick...again.
bhn
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. So few responses to such an important thread?
I don't understand...
BHN
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Another kick for visibility!
:kick:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Hello old friend...
:hug:

I miss the old days...
This thread would have been on fire then, no?

BHN
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. That's how it works here sometimes. Moderates outnumber leftists substantially...
Predictably, many mods likely wouldn't have anything to add to this beyond sarcastic swipes at namby-pamby psycho babble nonsense.
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-15-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. ponerology is pseudo-science
How do you quantify "evil"?

Psychology is the sloppiest of sciences. There is no "science" in this book. It is a sloppy attempt to quantify that which cannot be quantified. There is no "evil" gene or atom. One cannot measure how "evil" a person is by anything that can be examined with an objective eye. Therefore ponerology is a pseudo-science put forth by pseudo-scientists.

If someone steals a loaf of bread - this is wrong. But is it evil?

What if they are stealing the bread to feed their children?

Is it still evil?

The right wing fascists would love this idea that evil can be quantified. Protestors against the war or against nafta could be seen as evil for protesting. What if one throws a rock or a bottle? Is that person now evil?

The entire idea that there is a science of evil is actually evil itself.

What if the psychopaths become in charge of the institutions that define evil? They are psychopaths so we know that they will stop at nothing to crawl their way into some level of credibility and respectability, so why wouldn't they pose as the arbitors of who and who is not evil?

There is a serious lack of critical thinking going on here and I think we need to examine this more clearly.

So how can evil be quantified?

If it cannot be quantified - then it is not a science. For science is only concerned with that which can be measured.

This is why the book never saw the light of day. And why it was not published by a major publisher. The idea is not only pseudo-science and ridiculous, it is dangerous.

What is going on here is that"evil" is a very clear spiritual problem. But instead of examining this aspect they are trying to find a way to explain this concept through a scientific modality.

It doesn't work. That is why we must examine those who would put forth such a philosophy.

The fact that there are so many at DU who have no idea what science is supposed to do is the most disturbing part of this problem.


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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Marvin K. Mooney
can you plase GO NOW?
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. pseudo science = ponerology
Ah yes. I always like the question "can you go now" which is always asked of those who ask inconvenient questions.

Let us NOT ask how evil can be quantified?

Let us NOT ask who's agenda is being played out here with this ridiculous subject.

Let us instead ask the one who is asking the inconvenient question to "go now"?

Very "democratic" and "progressive".

You guys are acting like this subject of the "science of evil" is so incredible and so amazing that no one is asking if it is a science at all?

And if someone brings this up, you ask them to leave.

Hmmmm. Mighty strange response I would say.

How far does this "science" take us?

Can we create a committee of self-described "experts" like Laura Knight Jadczyk to decide who is "evil" and who is not?

Under the glare of scrutiny you and her all run like cockroaches under the glare of a light.

Not one of you is asking any questions about whether this is a science, whether there might be a fascist agenda at work here, a fascist agenda that is artfully designed to suck you into its trap.

When will the arbitors of evil decide that it is YOU who is evil?

How will we deal with that?

But oh no. Let's not talk about any of this. Let us just ask me to go now?
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Who is the leader of the psychopathic witch hunt?
Who would be so bold as to label someone who disagrees with them as a "psychopath"?

What qualities does one have to possess to be qualified as a "psychopath"?

Would it be stealing $250,000 in a House Raffle that never happened?

Would it be calling an innocent person a "COINTELPRO" agent?

Would it be the relentless attacks against everyone without any self-examination?

If psychopaths are really this evil then it would very likely be the person screaming "psychopath" the loudest - might just be the biggest psychopath?

No?
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. pseudo science and The Cult
This site goes into the dangers of forming a cult and ten declaring that anyone who disagrees with this cult is a COINTELPRO agent or a psychopath.

Very interesting. Read all the way.

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2434&postd...
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. "When will the arbitors of evil decide that it is YOU who is evil?"
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 04:04 PM by Karenina
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT when I was BORN with BROWN skin in the U.S.of A!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But THANX for the opportunity to :kick: again!

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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. When will the arbitors of evil decide that it is YOU who is evil?
Wow do I agree with you.

It wasn't so long ago in this country that the American Association of Psychiatrists said that all gays were psychopaths. Now they say that if you are against gays you are a psychopath.

Psychology is so sloppy that they can't agree on anything. Therefore we should never let psychologists and psychiatrists use their 'science' for arbitrating who is mentally ill and who is not, who is a psychopath and who is not, who is cointelpro and who is not.

Ponerology is a false science with no datum to reach its conclusion. The false philosophy is then propagandized by a woman who stole $250,000 and runs a cult that promotes fascism.

Let there be no doubt that she is positioning herself to decide who is who and what is what.

For instance Laura Knight Jadczyk hates Jews. She spends much of her time saying that the Jews did 911 and that all the wars going on are the result of Jews. Just like brown and black people before them, the Jews are her "conspiracy" group that is destroying the USA.

I say BS to that.

I know many Jews that are against the war and Bush and Cheney. What about them?

How long before it is decided by Laura that Jews have a "psychopathic" gene in them and so therefore they must be destroyed?

Ponerology is the best example of a pseudo science possibly ever presented. The fact that book was self-published by a woman who channels aliens from Cassiopaea through a ouija board should not surprise anyone.

Don't you agree?




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Laurel Canyon Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #56
82. Classy retort...
Another DUer that hates free speech.

This thread is a debate, so let's debate pornerology. Tough luck Karenina.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Thanx for the kick!
:hi:
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Yup, science is evil n/t
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. science isn't evil
Tama

Why do you think science is evil?

It isn't knowledge that harms people but way that knowledge is used.

Wisdom is the ancient word for this.

I don't think science is evil at all. I think pseudo science is evil though. And pnerology is a pseudo science.

And I will have to say that most people on this thread must agree with me because not one of the supporters of pnerology or Laura Knight Jadczyk has come here to answer the big question:

How do you measure evil?
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Following the line of thinking from above
How "evil cannot be quantified" and "attempt to quantify evil" is (qualitatively?) evil in itself.

Hence by a short leap of fuzzy qualitative logic ;), pure quantitative scientific thinking (science defined as measuring) - without balancing it with qualitative thinking and sensing to put calculations and measurements into their appropriate contexts - is qualitative evil. ;)

In other words, if "ethics" (empathy, sympathy, conscience etc.) is basically a feeling and a sense of some whole (holy?) that is not a reducible object, ie. not a sum of its parts and analyzable by scientific thought, then science should be subject to ethics and not vice versa; and to demand that ethics should be subject to science is indeed "evil".

There is an escape, though, to save science: giving up the extremely narrow definition of science as nothing but measuring. And with quantum physics and all (that is basically very wierd math or "a general theory of measuring") that should have been done ages ago, and based on strong empirical data aka measuring itself, to say the least!


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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. pseudo science is evil; ponerology is evil
I agree Tama.

I think this is essentially a spiritual problem, one that cannot be measured. On its face ponerology seems like a good idea. But when it gets down to the brass tacks it simply dissolves into nothingness. There is no way to measure evil so the idea that we could set up a committee of psychologists who arbitrarily decide who is evil and who is not, who is a psychopath and who is not, who is cointelpro and who is not, is absolutely ridiculous and eventually will lead to concentration camps for the evil ones - whomever they may be.

If we could trust the people who are telling us that there is a science of evil, that evil can be measured - then that would be different. But as with all emerging philosophies whether it be communism or nazism or ponerology we must examine the people who would propagate that philosophy. Do they have a past that would lead us to believe that they can be trusted? Have they ever done anything in their past that might be construed as 'evil' or pathological?

Do we really want Dick Cheney heading a committee to decide who is a psychopath and who is not?

That is why I say that ponerology is essentially a fascist dogma wrapped up in scientific clothing.

Unless we change the way we measure things - and I don't see how that will happen - ponerology is destined for the dustbin of history.

The fact that this pseudo-science emerged from behind the iron curtain where psychologists frequently used their profession to jail protesters should give us all a pause for concern. The fact that the person who wrote the introduction and who published the book has a long history of attacking innocent people, saying that this person or that is a psychopath without offering a shred of evidence for this assertion and that she has appointed herself as the final arbiter on who is a cointelpro agent and who is not is an even greater cause for concern.

But the biggest concern is that this idea, this pseudo science is actually being taken seriously by the progressive community is the most disturbing thing that has occurred in a long, long time.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Pseudoscience
Edited on Fri Apr-18-08 09:19 AM by tama
You still cling to the definition of science as measuring; but that applies (more or less) only to the so called "exact sciences"; whereas humanistic fields such as psychology, sociology etc. utilize many other methodologies besides exact measuring, including even introspective methods, when formulating theories. The definition of science as measuring and nothing else, is in itself "fascist", as it claims that humanistic fields, philosophy, ethics, etc. have nothing to do with science but are all "pseudoscience".

One problem is the dual meaning of 'science' in English, meaning in strict sense only exact natural sciences (physics etc.) and more broadly all academic fields of study, which causes lot of misunderstanding and empty rhetoric.
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Good point
Many scientists, like Richard Dawkins, insist that psychology and psychiatry are not really a science because science is only about measuring and one cannot measure in psychology or psychiatry. That is why they are the most abused of modern "scientific" modalities.

How many people are thrown into mental institutions unfairly? A psychiatrist can place you in a mental hospital for years without a trial and without due process. That is Dawkins point also.

Psychologists thought that Gays were psychopaths 20 years ago. Now they don't. Talk about sloppy! How many gays were sent to mental institutions because their psychiatrists thought that being gay was proof of psychopathic behavior?

I am not against psychology and psychiatry and i think they have a place in this world. But let us not give those people much authority over us or we will pay forever.

The book on ponerology insists that it is a science. Okay fine. Now it is up to those who propagate such a theory to prove their point. What is the thing that is being measured?

How can evil be quantified?

And if it cannot be quantified then it is a theory but it should never be allowed into the body politic.

Some psychopath would just use the idea to attempt to destroy their enemies.

And that is EXACTLY what is happening here.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. No should from is
It's worthwhile to remember Hume's guillotine "No should from is"; ie. no ethical theory (e.g measuring "good" and "evil" by utilitarian calculus) cannot be logically deduced from ontological theory (e.g standard physics).

On the other hand, the corner stone of any critical theory (e.g social, but also quantum physics is critical in the same sense) is that it is participatory and dynamic, it acknowledges that by it's predictions and other effects it influences both the object of study and the theorizing subject.

Hence the other way around "No is from should" does not apply, choises between ontological theories, e.g. when they are empirically equivalent but differ in other aspects (as any unfalsified theory where empirical proof of falsification is still inconclusive is), can and should be made according to ethical criteria, if there are found ethical axioms that can be agreed upon.

So let's suppose we have two ontological sociopsychological theories to choose from: 1) all men are evil greedy bastards because of original sin, 2) all men have great potential to act like evil greedy bastards when affected by certain social situations (e.g. in a political system that makes them elect as leaders and role models mainly sick sociopaths who were maltreated as children), and neither theory can be falcified by empirical proof - but produce different result when applied to practice, then the choise between the theories can be made according to ethical criteria based on ethical axioms - if there are axioms that can be agreed upon.

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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Tama you are right
There is no way to agree on what is evil and what is not. It really depends on the situation. Possibly there was a good reason for Laura Knight Jadczyk to take the $250,000 in the fake House Raffle in 2003.

If there is she should take a minute and explain it to us.

Not every overt act that appears to be "evil" is evil. Many times it is in the eyes of the beholder. A corporate president will believe, with all of his heart, that NAFTA protesters are "evil". He has an agenda and he sees these protesters as opposing his agenda.

Is he wrong? Yes! Is he "evil"? Not necessarily. He just may be working for his own interest instead of the public good.

So the answer lies in education. Not in declaring that this person or that person is a psychopath, or a cointelpro agent or anything else. That is why this subject deserves our utmost examination. Who is it that propagates this idea that there is a quantity called "evil" that lies inside human beings that can be measured? Whomever this person may be deserves our absolute scrutiny.

How does one measure "evil"?

What is "evil"?

Indeed, is it possible that the one yelling the loudest about "evil" just might be the person we had all better be watching!

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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. What is evil?
Nature is neither evil nor good, it just is. We as a part of nature are beings that give meanings and valuations, such as evil and good. So I have my own ethical axioms, namely that all life is beautifull and pleases God, and even more that life as variety is beautifull and pleases God, including human life in all its variety and difference. Therefore homogenizing expansionist culture such as European culture (especially Anglo-Saxon culture!) that seeks and clings to universal dominance, and commits great number of horrible ethnocides through various means and engages in monoculturizing mental colonialism over the whole globe, is in fact evil. And in many cases, consciously evil. Look at psychopathic Cheney for example, in his pride he even cherishes his evil image!!!

But let's be carefull here, when I say that European culture is evil, I don't mean it as a universal eternal truth, God's judgment, because God does not judge - only humans do. I mean it as a local "relativistic" truth, from viewpoint of victims of European universalism. Western peoples in their heart IMHO are not only guilty and collectively responsible for their crimes, but also victims at the same time, victims of their own evil culture and greed and political institutions that encouridge their worst aspects. And I'm aware that many good people born into Western culture are doing all they can to change the way their culture behaves, starting the change from themselves.






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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. what is evil?
No we can't say that an entire culture is "evil" but we can say that is has been wrong.

That is the problem with western culture from the beginning. The culture that brought us colonization and conquest believed that those people, black and brown alike, were not human. They thought that they did not have souls. They even thought that the people of the Americas and Africa were crazy - and if the word had been around - they thought that the people of those lands were psychopathic.

Fascists always try to describe their enemies as soulless because it makes it easier to kill them. Give the Indians blankets covered with small pox, it's allright - they don't have souls!

The woman who published the book on Ponerology, besides channeling aliens from cassiopaea, also believes that there are huge amounts of people here on earth that are soulless - she actually thinks that they don't have souls!

Laura Knight Jadczyk calls these people "organic portals" (ugh!).

It is because of this idea of organic portals that I believe that Laura Knight Jadczyk and her friends, the aliens from Cassiopaea, are actually fascists.

Like the Nazi's and the Fascists before her, she is searching for a reason to attack or possibly get rid of her enemies. First by classifying them as soulless and secondly advocating a political system that has them rounded up as "psychopaths".

That is why she thinks that Jeff Rense, Vincent Bridges, Alex Constantine, Jay Weidner, Noam Chomsky, Christopher Bollyn, Eric Pepin and many others are "psychopaths" and "cointelrpo" agents.

She is preaching an essentially fascist dogma, wrapped up in pseudo scientific clothing and all of it is being transmitted to her via an oiuja board by aliens from cassiopaea.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
61. ttt
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aldo Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
66. Here's a scary thought, did they off Minghella for The Talented Mr. Ripley?
This may seem off topic, but I'm not so sure. Pathocrats will act both politically and individually. Any thoughts?
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. Yes they act both ways
A perfect example of this is the person who wrote the introduction to the book Ms. Laura Knight Jadczyk.

On an individual level she attacks people like Eric Pepin who has no political ambitions at all. Laura Knight Jadczyk simply doesn't like him. Maybe she has a hang up for gay guys like Mr. Pepin, I really don't know. She has attacked a lot of people by insinuating that they are gay. Sometimes it appears as if she thinks that gays might be psychopaths.

But she also dishes out the dirt on a political level also. She has a blog, she has a news service in which she tries to influence the body politic.

That is why she must be examined in exacting detail.

What are her motivations?

What is her agenda?

When she placed herself into the public forum, when she placed herself in the glare of the public spotlight, she also invited the deepest scrutiny.

So she was examined. That is when it was discovered that she had stolen $250,000 in fake house raffle.

The ironic part of this story is that it is very likely that the money she used to publish the book on ponereology was financed through the money that she stole from innocent ticket buyers! Talk about psychopathic behavior!!!

And now we are treating this woman and her book like it is a revelation?

No way.

The book is pseudo science, the woman is a fraud and the entire thing was financed with stolen money.


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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
70. Sadism lies in wait for a good excuse
Milgram proved this some time ago, that Americans could be just as "evil" as the Nazis if given the authority to do so. And many Americans are finding good excuses today to assault the Bill of Rights.

THE MILGRAM EXPERIMENT.
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-18-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Sadism lies in wait for a good excuse
I agree. In fact it is when someone is given authority that we can usually tell if they are a psychopath or not.

Do they use their authority to heal and to create equality and justice? Or do they use their authority to attack and attempt to destroy those they perceive as their enemies?

That's why I like Obama so much. The crazies in the press, Fox News, Hilary all try to attack him and he just stays cool. He won't respond in kind, he won't call them names even as they call him names, he won't place them into boxes even as they try to put him in a box. The guy is teaching us how to deal with these people. And it is working!

But we need to expose them still. A guy like Obama can stand tall but we still need to know the motives of those who attack him.

And we need to know the motives of people like Laura Knight Jadczyk who attack others unfairly claiming that this person or that person is a psychopath without offering a shred of evidence. Laura Knight Jadczyk throws the word around until you begin to suspect that everyone except her is a psychopath.

It is sort of like the guy who has been divorced four times and blames all of his problems on women. Maybe ... just maybe, the problem is him!

I say that we cannot allow this kind of poison into our lives. We cannot allow a person to declare, based on some dubious authority, that this person is a psychopath or that person is a cointelpro agent. Who the hell is she to say these things? Where does she get her authority? Why did she appoint herself to write the intro to a book that was published by her own vanity press?

Why don't we hold her to the fire?

What proof does she show for her many assertions?

Why won't she answer the questions about the $250,000 fake house raffle rip-off?

Why does she lie when she says that she never channelled aliens from the constellation of cassiopaea through a ouija board?

Ponerology is a pseudo science. It was conceived and it is propagated by those who would use this mental disorder to achieve their own political and social ends.

We owe it to ourselves and to our children to make sure that this kind of nonsense is completely revealed for the BS that it is.

And if she doesn't like to be exposed to this kind of scrutiny then she should go away.

But if she is going to self-publish pseudo science, if she is going to have a news service that is asking for money from us to keep going, if she is not going to answer the many questions that have come up about her own pathology - then I ask you all:

Why should we believe anything that she says?

Why should we believe anything that is in this silly book?
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
75. Interesting thread.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
77. A good example of pathocracy is Mugabe's regime.
Zimbabwe has an unemployment rate of 80% and an inflation rate of 165,000%
(see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7351086.stm ).
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. witches in Africa
As famine rages across Africa many men are attacking women and killing them. These men say that these women are 'witches' and are casting spells that are causing the famine.

In some African villages witches are considered 'evil' and apparently all women are considered possible "witches" and therefore possibly "guilty".

In times of stress we look for scapegoats that we can blame all of our troubles on. Just like those people in Africa we are guilty of the same thing in the west.

Is it evil or is it psychopathic to say that someone is a "witch" or a cointelpro agent without providing any evidence? That is the real question here.

If it turns out that we agree that this is evil or psychopathic and if it turns out that Laura Knight Jadczyk is doing just that then it can only mean that Laura is evil and Laura is psychopathic. Is this true?

We shall examine this evidence soon and see if this is the case. However is should be noted that using the term psychopath is really should only be reserved to those who are qualified to make such pronouncements. Many here have questioned my sanity for bringing up these subjects and applying them to Ms. Jadczyk. But is Laura Knight Jadczyk qualified to say who is a psychopath and who isnt?

Just because she wrote the preface for a book on psychopaths is not very good evidence especially when one considers that the book is published by her own publishing company, kind of convenient almost that she allowed herself to write the preface, isnt it?

What are Laura Knight Jadczyks qualifications? By her own admission Ms. Jadczyk has had no college education at all. She had to drop out of High School to defend herself in the Attempted Murder charge. So Laura Knight Jadczyk has no degree in anything. She has no medical training; she has no training in psychiatry or psychology. The only training that she seems to have acquired is that she has the ability to be an Exorcist. Yes, according to the newspapers in St. Petersburg Florida and reporter Tom French, Laura Knight Jadczyk is well known in the Florida area for two things. One is exorcising demons from people and the other is channeling aliens from the constellation of Cassiopaea.

Now down south, exorcising demons is a common practice so I hope you dont snicker. Laura grew up in a trailer park and everyone was exorcising demons in her neighborhood. What is strange is that, after years of bragging about the Tom Frenchs article found here: http://www.sptimes.com/News/webspecials/exorcist/index.... . And talking endlessly about the incredible information that she has received from the aliens from Cassiopaea she suddenly now does not want any of you to find out about any of this. But that is okay. Because I will prove to you that she is lying. She says this above:

No, I don't "channel aliens."

Yes, I have (and do) experiment with superluminal communication in company with my husband, a physicist, and other scientists and researchers. For that part of my work, you can read my more esoteric website: http://www.cassiopaea.org /

I never "made my name" doing any of that. It was, in fact, rather private until Vincent Bridges and his gang painted me all over the internet as someone "channeling aliens"! And of course, that only began after I had pretty much turned my attention from that sort of research (which was interesting, but not all that important in the grander scheme of things) to the problem of pathology in human populations.

Much like St. Peter denying that he knew Jesus, Laura is saying that she didnt channel aliens and that she didnt make her name doing this. Interesting because she agreed to be interviewed for the Tom French article. It certainly looks like this is how she was making her name. Please note how she obfuscates the language. But a quick read of the article we can see that Laura was not interested in politics or progressive ideals or in psychopaths. She was making her name exorcising demons and channeling aliens from cassiopaea.

I think that she now wants to be taken seriously, especially by the progressive culture, and she knows that this would not go down well with you guys.

If she thinks that wont go down well wait until you guys hear the rest.

You will come to see why she does not answer my questions. For any attempt to answer my questions posted above will reveal the truth. And that truth is that Laura Knight Jadczyk is everything that she says that she is against. Dont believe me. Stick around and you may see the light.

Years ago, in Salem Massachusetts, two girls went around the village claiming that this person or that person was a witch. When asked why they thought this; the two girls replied that they could see the devil walking with those people.

As many of you know, many people were killed and murdered and tortured because of the claims of these two girls. We now know that there were no witches, there was no devil walking with people and we also know that the people who were accused of these things were innocent. The events is Salem, all those years ago is instructive to this current discussion.

And this goes back to the original question I asked at the beginning of this ramble: Is it evil or is it psychopathic to say that someone is a cointelpro agent or psychopathic without providing any evidence?

From the Salem Witch Trial story we can see that saying that someone is this or that without providing accurate evidence to this effect can cause a lot of damage. People can get killed when this kind of thing gets out of hand.

Now I am sure that the two girls who did this were not evil. They grew up in a culture where it was easily accepted that the devil walked around next to people. They grew up in a culture where it was easily accepted that there were demons that got inside people and had to be removed or exorcised. The fact that Laura Knight Jadczyk spent her early life exorcising demons is proof that she comes from a culture very similar to the girls from Salem who caused so much damage. I am not judging this culture I am merely pointing out similarities between the culture that started the Salem Witch Craze and the culture from which Laura emerged.

Now Laura has placed herself in a position where she is no longer exorcising demons from people but she is exorcising psychopaths from society. This sounds very noble but again what criteria is she using. Is she qualified to make such judgments? And what if she is wrong? What should happen if it is shown, even once, that Laura has unfairly called someone a psychopath or a cointelpro agent? Can we safely assume that her judgment is clear enough and precise enough o make such judgments?

We would first have to examine her past to see if she is fully sane herself. If we can find any incident where her own - possibly psychopathic - behavior is exhibited then that might call into question her abilities to make such sweeping judgments, does it not? That is exactly why her past is so important.

We have already seen that she has no university degree in anything, she has no training in psychology or psychiatry.

We can see that she was famous for being an exorcist. This last aspect is where we discover her true qualifications. She is an exorcist who has switched from demons to psychopaths. One wonders if she sees any difference between the two? To be able to so easily switch from being an exorcist to a judge making pronouncements concerning who is a psychopath and who isnt, making judgments as to who is cointelpro and who isnt is breath-taking.

In my own opinion I think that making a false accusation against someone is probably not right. If I have made such a false accusation against anyone, please accept my apologies. But if it were shown that the person who is sitting in judgment about who is a psychopath and who isnt has a criminal background, has no qualifications, and is in fact lying then I think that would go a long way in clearing up this matter.

By the way the two girls in Salem were finally stopped by a local farmer who made such reasonable arguments as to why the two girls were living out a fantasy, a fantasy that cost hundreds of lives, that he stopped the entire Salem Witch Trial madness with his arguments.

I dont contend to be that good with words but I am attempting to make a reasonable argument here that Laura Knight Jadczyk is a very dangerous person. I am making the argument here that she has no right to pass judgments on anyone until we are clear about her and her intentions.

That is why I have asked those questions that she refuses to answer.

Here is her answer as to whether she stole $250,000 in a house raffle scam in 2003:
I am amused at the claim that I am wanted by the law for stealing varying amounts of money (why can't those guys ever get the sum the same? Is it 100K, 200K, 250K, or what?) It never occurs to them that if I had any problems with the U.S. legal system that treaties with France, where I am a legal resident, would mandate an immediate arrest and return. That this has not happened speaks for itself.

This sentence baffles me: "My guess is that she cannot afford to come to the USA to stand trial for the charges against her because she will be arrested on the spot. Therefore she will escape one more time."

Can anybody else make any sense out of it? I mean, if I'm supposed to be going to the US to stand trial for something that I'm supposed to be arrested for, why would I be worried about getting arrested for going to stand trial??? Most confusing! (And amusing.)


Instead of saying no I did not do it she says anything but that answer. It cannot have happened because she would have been arrested? Huh?

Did you have a House Raffle in 2003? Did you name a winner? Did you sell the house? She cannot answer any of the questions because she did steal the money. She tries to say that the figures are all wrong so we dont know what we are talking about. But there are only two figures given by anyone and a close examination shows that the two different figures make sense depending on how you add them up.

An insider who saw the False House Raffle reported that Laura and her husband Ark stole $150,000 worth of tickets. That is where the first figure of $150,000 comes from. We then later learned that Laura had sold the house for $100,000. In my book that comes out a $250,000 rip off.

So yes, she only stole $150,000 worth of cash with the fake house raffle in 2003. But she illegally sold the house and took that money also.

So she stole $250,000 in the house raffle and that is why she gives the above answer and why she refuses to answer any of my very good questions.

Later I will present you with Lauras statements concerning the house raffle and we will see that not only did she do it but that she still believes that it is okay to steal $250,000 from innocent people.

Is this psychopathic behavior being exhibited by Laura? I dont know because I am not qualified to make a judgment like that. But it is certainly suspicious.

Okay now we know that Laura made a name for herself by exorcising demons in Florida, we now know that she will not answer the questions concerning the house raffle because the accusations, by me, are true. We can also see that Laura is lying when she says that she did not channel aliens from Cassiopaea.

If it can be shown that Laura is lying about all of this then I think that makes ANYTHING she says as being suspect. Dont you?

Okay so here is an excerpt from an article written by Ms. Jadczyk. It is called How to Spot Cointelpro agents and can be found here:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_cointelpro07.htm

Excerpt:

LKJ: Well, Rense is a cipher to me, too. I only recently learned that he is a close pal of Jay Weidner and that he and Jay and Vincent Bridges used to be members of Ray Flowers group. The Cs pretty clearly indicated Flowers as a COINTELPRO handler. From my point of view, after a long period of observation, Rense is out there pushing the alien noise agenda in a big way.

Here she is saying that Jeff Rense and Jay Weidner were members of Ray Flowers group. I dont know what that means but she also says that The Cs pretty clearly indicated Ray Flowers as a COINTELPRO handler.

I wrote to Jeff Rense and he told me that he did not even know a Ray Flowers and had never been in his group. I wrote to Ray Flowers and asked him if Jeff Rense had ever been in his group. Mr. Flowers says that Jeff Rense was never a part of anything that Ray Flowers had anything to do with.

Okay so Laura Knight Jadczyk is dead wrong here.

But how does she know that Ray Flowers is a cointelpro agent?

She tells us: The Cs pretty clearly indicated Ray Flowers as a COINTELPRO handler.

So she is getting the information on who is and who isnt a cointelpro handler from some mysterious group she refers to as The Cs.

Who are these mysterious Cs? How do they know all of this?

Are the Cs the Communists?

Are the Cs the Catholics?

No, the Cs are the Cassiopaeans.

And who are the Cassiopaeans?

They are the aliens from the constellation Cassiopaea that Laura and Fred Irland were channeling through an ouija board.

So the vital information on who is and who is not a cointelpro agent is coming from otherworldly beings that speak directly to Laura through an ouija board and inform her on who is and who isnt a cointelpro agent and who and who is not a psychopath.

The fact that she does not tell you this is a very serious problem.

Never mind that she trashed people and tried to destroy their reputation that is bad enough but that she does not have any evidence, outside of her channeled entities, tells us everything that there is to know about her. The fact that she trashes a selfless patriot like Jeff Rense based on channeled information is unforgivable.

But is it evil? That is the question here. Is it psychopathic to make such a judgment based on such dubious sources?

In my opinion it could be evil and it could be proof that the real psychopath is Laura Knight Jadczyk.

I asked Laura in the above questions what evidence she has to say that Eric Pepin is a cointelpro agent. Mr. Pepin is suing Laura for saying this and she must show the reasons and the evidence for this claim in her upcoming slander trial.

Will she say that the information came from the Cassiopaeans? Is that why she is not answering the questions? She has certainly NOT presented any evidence that Mr. Pepin running a cointelpro operation on her site. Where does she get this information?

Is this the criteria that we in the progressive movement wish to use to figure out who is our enemy and who isnt. Is it right to let a person with a very clear and dubious background, a woman who made her name exorcising demons ala The Exorcist, a woman who very likely stole $250,000 in a fake house raffle, a woman who admits (sometimes) that she has received her information from a group of mysterious beings called the Cassiopaeans to sit in judgment of anyone or anything?

Laura Knight Jadczyk is like those two girls in Salem all those hundreds of years ago. She is driven by inner demons to attack and defame anyone who questions her.

At any time she could retract her hurtful statements and judgments. But it appears that it is impossible for Laura Knight Jadczyk to empathize, or to place herself in someone elses shoes.

This lack of ability to empathize is a leading qualification for defining a psychopath.

There are many others that Laura has called cointelpro agents and psychopaths. As we go on here with this examination of this woman I will point out other people that she has attacked. I will show you that there is NEVER ever any evidence ever presented to back up her claims.

Apparently it is all coming from the Cs.

When one considers that her husband Ark Jadczyk was once an employee of DARPA and the Pentagon this becomes ominous.

DARPA is the agency within the Pentagon that created devices that can be implanted into peoples heads to make them think that they are receiving messages from outside.

I know this is scary stuff. But there is a lot of evidence pointing in this direction. I would be more than happy to send some of this information along to those who are interested.

Is this what is happening to Laura? Is she a dupe for DARPA?

What would be the purpose of such an experiment?

Maybe it would be to cause chaos and confusion amongst the people who are fighting the establishment?

What if DARPA set up a person to appear to be some kind of authority and then have that person attack and tell everyone that this person or that person is a cointelpro agent or a psychopath?

That certainly would be useful in spreading chaos and confusion wouldnt it?

And that, my friends, is exactly the description of the old style cointelpro operations perfected by the FBI.

Their entire purpose was to spread confusion and chaos amongst the progressive organizations of the 1960s.

One of the chief ways that this was done was by the false labeling of someone as an agent. It has been discovered by many researchers that the ones in the 1960s who were calling people agents and spies almost all were actually FBI cointelpro agents and their job was to destroy everything good that these groups were doing. like stopping the Vietnam war and fighting for civil rights.

I dont know if Laura Knight Jadczyk is doing this. That is why it is so important to find out what evidence she is using to make her judgments.

If she is saying it then it is up to her to provide us with a clear evidence for such a claim.

Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence to quote Carl Sagan.

And I am sorry but voices in the head are not good enough evidence.

So is it evil to say that someone is a cointelpro agent or a psychopath without providing evidence for such a claim?

I dont know. But I do know that it is unfair. And I know that if she is wrong in even one instance she will be causing much turmoil and confusion.

Let us be careful when we say something about someone. Let us ask questions first. If the answers are not forthcoming well that tells us a lot, doesnt it?

More is coming so stay tuned.






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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-19-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
80. I can't believe I read the whole thing...
Beauty of a post!

:yourock:
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Beauty of a post
Thanks. And I want to thank the many people who have contacted me from DU wanting in-depth info on Laura Knight Jadczyk and her pseudo science called ponerology.

Many people believe Laura Knight Jadczyk when she says that there never was a House Rafflee in 2002 and 2003. She has done a very good job of wiping out everything from her web site about the House Raffle but unfortunately for her many people copied the ad from her site in 2002.

The following is the advertisement that Laura Knight Jadczyk put up on her cassiopaea.com web site in 2003.



The Perseus Foundation is announcing The Six Bedroom House Giveaway

Entry deadline is January 1st, 2003 - Drawing date: January 16, 2003.

ONLY 6,000 TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE and they will go fast!

This increases your chances of winning, but only if you make your entry in time!

For only a $50.00, tax deductible donation, you could WIN a house!

Make your donation and get YOUR ticket TODAY!

One lucky ticket holder will win the approximately 3,000 sq. ft, 6-bedroom, 2-bath, 2 living room, double lot (100X 150 feet) home located in the quiet, picturesque, small town of New Port Richey, Florida. The home's market value is $200,000. You may obtain more than one ticket, however, a limit of 6,000 are available.

New Port Richey is a bedroom community for the greater Tampa-St. Petersburg area. Located just a mile or two from the Gulf of Mexico, graced by a small-town atmosphere with admirable services, quiet neighborhoods, excellent police and fire protection, up-to-date hospitals, parks and recreation areas, there are few places in the US that can compare for charm and convenience. A lovely river meanders through the center of town, its banks graced with lovely homes, a park, and jogging paths.

During the 12 years that Laura Jadczyk has lived in the home, many improvements have been made, and 80% of the planned renovations have been completed. This includes new electrical wiring throughout, insulation, new walls and ceilings, complete ductwork for AC/Heat pump, vinyl siding, new windows, new roof, a new 40 X 12 terrace, landscaping, tool shed, pool, and other features too numerous too mention. Care has been taken to preserve the character of the 1925 Cracker Style Florida home, which includes a small celler - unusual for Florida homes.

Click photo for a tour of the house

Ark and Laura will make their house available to the Perseus Foundation, Inc, a Florida not-for-profit corporation qualified under Sec. 501c(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, and the Foundation will award the house to some lucky winner who can then do whatever he or she likes with it - live in it, use it as a vacation home, income property, or sell it.

Make your donations before January 1st, 2003 - in order to receive your raffle tickets! Drawing date: January 16, 2003.

This raffle ticket is offered for a Fifty and 00/100 Dollar ($50.00) donation to the Perseus Foundation, Inc., a Florida not-for-profit corporation qualified under Sec. 501c(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended. No purchase is necessary in order to participate. Upon receipt of a voluntary donation either by cash, cleared check made payable to Perseus Foundation, or funds credited Perseus Foundation via Paypal, Perseus Foundation will will enter the stub on the face of a raffle ticket inscribed with the name of the donor into a drawing, to be held at approximately 5:30 p.m. on January 16, 2003 at the offices of Perseus Foundation, Inc., located in New Port Richey, Pasco County, FL.

The winner will be selected at random from eligible entries and will be notified by certified mail to the address given on the stub. The winner must present the winning ticket and identification to claim the prize and has until 5:00 p.m. on the fifth business day beginning with the business day after the postmark of the mailed notice to do so. If the prize is not claimed by the deadline, the next drawn ticket may be awarded the prize, subject to presentation of that ticket and identification by 5:00 p.m. on the fifth business day beginning with the business day after the postmark of the mailed notice to such party.

You may make your donation by mail. Mail donations must be postmarked no later than December 31, 2002 and received prior to drawing while tickets last. After January 16, 2003, to receive the number of the winning ticket please send a self-addressed, stamped envelope to Perseus Foundation, Inc., P.O. Box 2068, New Port Richey, FL 34656-2068 with your request.

By entering the raffle the winner agrees to have his/her name and ticket number publicized.

The prize to be awarded the winner is title to the home. Said prize shall be acquired by Perseus Foundation, Inc. from proceeds of this fund raising drive, i.e. donations made to Perseus Foundation. The remaining proceeds will be used to establish a Quantum Future School center that will function as the focal point for Perseus Foundation activities. The maximum number of tickets issued is 6,000. The number of entries received will determine the odds of winning. A Notary Public will be present to certify the drawing. The donor need not be present to win. In the event of any challenge or dispute, the winner to be awarded the prize will be selected by Perseus Foundation's President and Executive Director, whose decision will be final. Copies of these rules may be obtained by mailing a stamped self-addressed return envelope along with a request for such a copy to Perseus Foundation, Inc., P.O. Box 2068, New Port Richey, FL 34656-2068.

Entrants must be at least 18 years of age.

The Perseus Foundation's Board of Directors and members of their households are not eligible to enter. The winner is responsible for all applicable taxes. Void where prohibited by law.

Donate $100.00

Click the button at left to make your $100.00 donation and receive two tickets to win The Cassiopaea House! Click button at right to donate $50.00 and receive one ticket to win The Six Bedroom House!

Be sure to enter your name and address in the paypal form options. Remember, only 6,000 entries will be accepted! This increases your chances of winning, but only if you make your entry in time! You may also enter by mail: Send your entry request and donation to:

Perseus Foundation, Inc.
P.O. Box 2068
New Port Richey, FL 34656-2068
Donate $50.00



So that is the ad that ran on Laura's site for almost a year in 2002 and 2003.

Now this is where it gets really good.

Here is Lauras response to the charges that she did not name a winner in the raffle and took the $250,000 to France during her escape from the USA> :


Serious barriers seemed to have been put in the way of the winner taking possession of the house. There were taxes that had to be paid based on the value of the house and instead of helping this person to take care of that, (which could have been done), our representatives apparently made it an insuperable obstacle and that meant that the winner had to be disqualified. Then the situation seems to have been a battle between the atty and the neighbor for possession of the house. Keep in mind that both of them had our contact details but neither of them contacted us about this asking what should they do and they, themselves, did nothing except try to outwait the other so that the house would go into foreclosure and one of them could pick it up at auction for 10 cents on the dollar.??We were, by this time, settling in France and thinking that everything was all sorted out. By the time we learned what was going on, it was already a disaster and we could do absolutely nothing about it. We had already had to pay double to get our household goods delivered after they were held-hostage by a Jewish moving company so we were broke.??In the middle of all this, a woman called me from Florida one night and said she wanted the house and even needed it badly. I told her the situation and explained that if she wanted it she would have to get an attorney and fight for it, that whatever she proposed I would agree to.??So, she put her attorney on the problem, came up with a plan and went in, made an offer with her attorney behind her, and the crooked jerk we left with our POA had no choice but to transfer the house to her because I was agreeing to everything she wanted - including a price that was half the value of the house. At this point, it was necessary because the checks we had left to pay off the note were now no longer valid since it was past 90 days.??So, basically, we lost our shirts in more ways than one, and between the people we left to handle this simple transaction and the movers who held up all our goods for two months, we ended up looking like we had deliberately pulled a "fast one" when nothing could have been further from the truth. I'm pretty sure that any reasonable person can see why I simply chose not to discuss it any further because, by this time, there were innocent people involved (the people who got the house) as well as not-so-innocent people that I could do nothing about whatsoever. They covered their tracks well. {/end quote}

"The raffle was a huge failure since we didn't even get half of the money to?pay off the mortgage (it wasn't a very big one either!) So, we borrowed on?our credit cards to make up the difference, our readers and discussion group?members pooled enough cash to help us move, we picked a winner, left the?checks and power of attorney with a local attorney and our neighbor to?handle the transfer of the house (that was the mistake part) and left."??Now, since you have perused the public records, you must have noted that the mortgage on the house was only 70 K. The raffle plainly stated that tickets were a gift in exchange for a DONATION - and that is an important legal distinction. Our attorney was careful to point out to us that we very well might not make enough money on the raffle to pay off the house and insisted on that wording. And, he was right. The raffle brought in less than 30 K, that is, less than half of what was required to pay off the mortgage. That is why we borrowed on our credit cards to make up the difference and needed help from our friends and group members to move. And that was because we wished to fulfill the offer of the raffle.??Here are some additional facts for you to consider:??The raffle tickets were a FREE gift. We were required by law to give them away to anyone who either made a donation or simply requested one and fulfilled simple requirements, i.e. sending in a request by mail. What this means is that MOST of the tickets given away were given to people who sent in mail requests for them, i.e., they were free and no donation whatsoever was received. Some people sent up to 50 such mail requests.??Due to this problem, we found it necessary to increase the number of tickets that would be issued twice since nearly all the designated tickets were given away and no donations received.??Nearly all of the donations came from friends, discussion group members, and regular readers of the site. There were very few donations from non-group members. As noted, most tickets went to people who simply mailed in a request for them.??All requests were recorded with ticket number and how the ticket was obtained, i.e., whether a donation was made or whether it was by mail request. All records are still in our keeping, right down to every single envelope and mail request received.??Our records are complete, both financial and legal - that includes all bank records, paypal records, and legal documentation. Your twisting and distortion of the facts and your accusations of illegal activity are illegal in themselves in the U.S.??As for your "Sophie," I have several records of faked letters and emails you and your friends (Vincent and Jay) have published in an effort to defame me which can be proven as fraudulent in a court of law because certain details are so false as to be laughable.??Since you are in UK, you know that you can get away with libelous accusations against people in the U.S. I suspect that is why Mr. Weidner sent you in to say all the things he knew he could not legally get away with saying because they are libelous (that is, LIES and legally actionable as such.) Just keep in mind that you are not as legally immune as you think.??In the UK, the following applies:??(begin quote)?Defamation is any published material that damages the reputation of an individual or an organisation. This covers material on the internet as well as radio and television broadcasts - so even drama and fiction can be defamatory if they damage someone's reputation. You can only publish defamatory material if it comes within one of the recognised legal defences. If it doesn't, the publication will amount to libel and you may have to pay substantial damages.??Internet sites are not exempt from any libel laws. If you are publishing on the internet you are bound by the same libel laws as print publishers.??In the UK, internet service providers are coming under increasing pressure to close sites containing defamatory allegations. You also have to be careful about the comments others post on your site. There have been cases where individuals have sued online publishers for libel over customer book reviews published on their sites.??Libel law protects individuals or organisations from unwarranted, mistaken or untruthful attacks on their reputation. A person is libelled if a publication:??* Exposes them to hatred, ridicule or contempt??* Causes them to be shunned or avoided??* Discredits them in their trade, business or profession??* Generally lowers them in the eyes of right thinking members of society??The most important point is to make absolutely sure that what you are printing or writing is true. Do not make claims or accusations that you cannot prove. Even if you think you can do this, be cautious. Proving things in court can be very difficult.??And the test of what the words mean is what a reasonable reader is likely to take as their natural and ordinary meaning, in their full context - what you intended as the author or publisher is irrelevant.??If you write something that cannot be substantiated the credibility of your site, organisation or cause may be questioned. It can also land you with an expensive lawsuit and there is no legal aid for libel cases.??The burden of proof lies with the defendant?Almost uniquely in English law, in libel cases the burden of proof lies with the author / publisher and not the complainant. In other words, you have to prove that what you write is true. The person you've targeted does not have to prove that you're wrong.??It is inadvisable to repeat a defamatory rumour unless you are in a position to prove it's true. Even if you are contradicting the rumour you should not repeat it. And adding `allegedly' is not enough to get you out of libel difficulties.??If you publish defamatory remarks about people or organisations made by other people you will be just as liable to be sued as they are. So if you can't prove the truth of their statements, don't repeat them.??It is a common mistake to draw unverifiable conclusions from the basic facts. For example, if Mr Brown is seen going into a hotel room with a call-girl, this does not necessarily mean he enjoyed a `night of passion', and will certainly not prove that he did.??The UK is notorious as a claimant-friendly jurisdiction for bringing libel proceedings. In other words, you should be careful what you write (or allow others to write) on your website.??The law of defamation is all about reputation, and the protection of reputation. Slander is concerned with the spoken word, libel with the written word. Note that the law of defamation protects both individuals and companies.??A related cause of action, malicious falsehood, protects individuals and companies against false, malicious statements which cause them loss.??Any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or "published," may well be a defamatory statement and can give rise to an action for either libel or slander in English law.??Under English law, the remedies are different for libel and slander. In the case of libel (the recorded statement), the victim can win damages even if he has not suffered financial loss as a result of the statement.?(end quotes)??These lies and attacks against innocent people have gone far enough.
--




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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Laura and the House Raffle Part 2
Now here is Vincent Bridges brilliant analysis of Laura Knight Jadczyks onfuscated statements from above. :


Serious barriers seemed to have been put in the way of the winner taking possession of the house. There were taxes that had to be paid based on the value of the house and instead of helping this person to take care of that, (which could have been done), our representatives apparently made it an insuperable obstacle and that meant that the winner had to be disqualified.

V: There was no winner because there was no raffle to chose one. Since the non-profit wasn't legal, and the real property had not been vested in escrow, the whole thing was nothing but a flat out fraud, as no raffle was even considered.


Then the situation seems to have been a battle between the atty and the neighbor for possession of the house. Keep in mind that both of them had our contact details but neither of them contacted us about this asking what should they do and they, themselves, did nothing except try to outwait the other so that the house would go into foreclosure and one of them could pick it up at auction for 10 cents on the dollar.??

V: Major lie number one. How could the house go into foreclosure if it was, as the law said it must be for a raffle, paid off and the deed held in escrow? No raffle, that is very clear from this comment. They simply left with their taxes and their mortgage unpaid.


We were, by this time, settling in France and thinking that everything was all sorted out. By the time we learned what was going on, it was already a disaster and we could do absolutely nothing about it. We had already had to pay double to get our household goods delivered after they were held-hostage by a Jewish moving company so we were broke.

V: So they spent all the illegally solicited money from the fake raffle in moving, with everything still unpaid back in Florida...



In the middle of all this, a woman called me from Florida one night and said she wanted the house and even needed it badly. I told her the situation and explained that if she wanted it she would have to get an attorney and fight for it, that whatever she proposed I would agree to.

V: Why would anyone have to fight for it? Because it was in or about to be in foreclosure. That's logical since apparently no payments were made since the L'Arks fled the nest back in February.


So, she put her attorney on the problem, came up with a plan and went in, made an offer with her attorney behind her, and the crooked jerk we left with our POA had no choice but to transfer the house to her because I was agreeing to everything she wanted - including a price that was half the value of the house. At this point, it was necessary because the checks we had left to pay off the note were now no longer valid since it was past 90 days.

V: Went into the bank? Again foreclosure... The lies mount up with the check business, if they had the money, why not pay the house off back in February? Blame the un-named crooked jerk...


So, basically, we lost our shirts in more ways than one, and between the people we left to handle this simple transaction and the movers who held up all our goods for two months, we ended up looking like we had deliberately pulled a "fast one" when nothing could have been further from the truth. I'm pretty sure that any reasonable person can see why I simply chose not to discuss it any further because, by this time, there were innocent people involved (the people who got the house) as well as not-so-innocent people that I could do nothing about whatsoever. They covered their tracks well. {/end quote}


V: So even Laura sees that the story isn't very good, and makes no sense... But she's stuck with it...

"The raffle was a huge failure since we didn't even get half of the money to?pay off the mortgage (it wasn't a very big one either!) So, we borrowed on?our credit cards to make up the difference, our readers and discussion group?members pooled enough cash to help us move, we picked a winner, left the?checks and power of attorney with a local attorney and our neighbor to?handle the transfer of the house (that was the mistake part) and left."??Now, since you have perused the public records, you must have noted that the mortgage on the house was only 70 K. The raffle plainly stated that tickets were a gift in exchange for a DONATION - and that is an important legal distinction. Our attorney was careful to point out to us that we very well might not make enough money on the raffle to pay off the house and insisted on that wording. And, he was right. The raffle brought in less than 30 K, that is, less than half of what was required to pay off the mortgage. That is why we borrowed on our credit cards to make up the difference and needed help from our friends and group members to move. And that was because we wished to fulfill the offer of the raffle.

V: So where did the money to move to France come from? More donations? So did where the money from the raffle go? keep in mind that even a donation is not actually a cover from a blatantly fraudulent raffle scam. Particularly if the non-profit is not quite legal...



Here are some additional facts for you to consider:??The raffle tickets were a FREE gift. We were required by law to give them away to anyone who either made a donation or simply requested one and fulfilled simple requirements, i.e. sending in a request by mail. What this means is that MOST of the tickets given away were given to people who sent in mail requests for them, i.e., they were free and no donation whatsoever was received. Some people sent up to 50 such mail requests.??Due to this problem, we found it necessary to increase the number of tickets that would be issued twice since nearly all the designated tickets were given away and no donations received.??Nearly all of the donations came from friends, discussion group members, and regular readers of the site. There were very few donations from non-group members. As noted, most tickets went to people who simply mailed in a request for them.??All requests were recorded with ticket number and how the ticket was obtained, i.e., whether a donation was made or whether it was by mail request. All records are still in our keeping, right down to every single envelope and mail request received.??Our records are complete, both financial and legal - that includes all bank records, paypal records, and legal documentation.

V; So it should be easy to give the answers needed to make all of this moot. Just post your letter of authorization on your 501-c-3, tell us who the winner of the raffle actually was, explain why the law regarding raffles in Florida wasn't followed, tell us exactly what happened to the money, and of course, how you ended up selling the house and making a profit? Easy right?

VB

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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Laura and the House Raffle Part 3
Please read the above with all of your attention. This is where we can see who the psychopath really, truly is. One of the definitions of psychopath is that they don't really know the difference between right and wrong. We can see from Laura's extremely faulty explanation for the Fake House Raffle that she truly does not know the difference. All she really has to do is say that she is sorry and give the money back. But Laura does not think that stealing $250,000 is wrong. In fact she acts as if she deserves the money she obtained by fraud, lies and deceit.

I have waited to show this statement because i want all of us to really think about what is going on here.

We have a woman who channels aliens through a ouija board, who exorcises demons from people in trailer parks in Florida and now she is running a web "news service" that is really just designed to suck people into joining her cult. People like Time for change and Larry Og. Once into her cult they appear to lose their ability to know right from wrong and they defend her actions. Even when they are asked if it is okay to call someone a psychopath or a cointelpro agent without offering a shred of evidence, they still support her. they still write glowing emails and posts to her cassiopaea web site praising her like she is the next Moses or something.

When confronted with her statements concerning the Fake House Raffle they don't even blink. Apparently they think that is is allright to steal $250,000.

Instead they attack those like me who would be courageous enough to bring you this important information about a total crook.

And now she is asking you for money to help her in her defense against an innocent man named Eric Pepin who did absolutely nothing to Laura Knight Jadczyk. She called him a pervert simply because he is gay. She called him a cointelpro agent without offering a shred of evidence.

Don't be like Time For Change and Larry Og. Don't fall for her line of BS. Examine the evidence and make up your own minds about this person - Laura Knight Jadczyk.

That is all that I ask.
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Time for change and Larry Ogg are cult members
he Laura Knight Jadczyk Scams.
A Brief History in Four Parts.

by

Tom Delsavio

SCAM NUMBER ONE
The Channelling Scam
There were many scams before this scam in Laura's checkered career but for simplicity's sake we will concentrate on the four main scams starting with this one.

The original channeler Freddie might have been in touch with serious spirits, but because of Laura's meddling we will never know. Laura instantly recognized what Freddie was doing and how she could turn it into a scam, so she joined in. Eventually she stole all of the channelled work from Freddie and copyrighted it while simultaneously attempting to destroy Freddie's reputation in the process. This is the scam from which all other scams came from. Once Freddie left the spirits left also. There were no spirits, Jinns or anything else after that , it was just Laura scamming. Unfortunately with Freddie departed the channelling scam was also collapsing. Like all scammers Laura had to find other scams to keep the interest and the money flowing.

SCAM NUMBER TWO
The Fulcanelli Scam
Laura met Vincent and she recognized that the research he was involved with could help her continue her scams. Reversing what she did with Freddie, where she took the material and then tried to destroy Freddie, with Vincent she did the opposite. She first attempted to destroy Vincent and then steal the work. This scam, like scam number one, continues to this day. The Fulcanelli Scam is not as sexy as The Channelling Scam nor does it bring in the money that The Channelling Scam brought in. But she was desperate and what choice did she have? She prodded Vincent for all that he was worth and then betrayed him just like she had done earlier with Freddie. Moving to France and creating the Quantum Future School are direct results of The Fulcanelli Scam. This scam is frequently unintentionally hilarious as with Laura's claim that she is the reincarnation of Fulcanelli. But what is a scammer supposed to do? Everyone believed that she was channelling aliens from Cassiopaea so why wouldn't the fools believe that she is the reincarnation of Fulcanelli?

SCAM NUMBER THREE
The House Raffle Scam.
Once Freddie left there was a danger that the money and the interest would soon wane. The Fulcanelli Scam was not taking off as quickly as she hoped and Ark couldn't find a job. Debts were piling up and the credit cards were maxed out. Laura and Ark created The House Raffle Scam to get all that they could from the cult followers that had gathered around them because of Scam Number One. This had to be done quickly because the channelling scam had essentially ended with Freddie's departure. How long could she keep this scam going? Not long. Therefore she had to pull of Scam Number Three as quickly as possible. The reason that they escaped to France was to continue with Scam Number Two. Since The Fulcanelli Scam was intimately related to the country of France, this became the country of choice.

SCAM NUMBER FOUR
The Political Scam
Many criminals and scam artists end their careers performing this scam. Once they are cornered by the truth they need The Political Scam to cover up their past scams and to be able to offset the authorities. Huey Newton of the Black Panthers, Cinque, or Donald DeFreeze, of the SLA, Jim Jones of the People's Temple, Charlie Manson of The Family all had checkered criminal pasts BEFORE they became political animals. In all of these cases the politics was just a clever cover for more sophisticated criminal operations. When these people were investigated by the authorities for their CRIMINAL activities they all claimed that they are being harassed by the government for their POLITICAL activities. In this way they create an aura of being a victim as well as helping to undermine the political movements that they claim to be a part of.

One of the aspects of this that is interesting, and troubling, is that many of these people mentioned above eventually became informants for the government in order to stop further criminal investigations from occurring. This way they get their cake and eat it too. The POLITICAL movement that they made themselves a part of is then destroyed by them AND they are able to forestall the government from sending them to prison for their CRIMINAL activities. Jim Jones, Huey Newton, Charlie Manson, Donald DeFreeze etc. were all scam artists and criminals long before they found politics. One of the most interesting things that these people share with Laura Knight Jadczyk, besides being scam artists who became political dissidents, is that they all ended their POLITICAL careers in a maze of self-created paranoia. ALL of them claimed that they were being harassed by government agents, infiltrators and cointelpro. ALL of them ended their lives tragically, either dead or in prison for life. It could even be successfully argued that these same people created cults to protect them from their criminal past. In a way their cults walked hand in hand with their political cover stories.

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Vincent Bridges Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
88. Okay, even if I agree with the basic premise...
that Bush and company are acting as if they had a variety of mental illnesses, it surely does more harm than good to back up the argument with references to a work of crank pseudo-science such as Ponerology and Lobaczewski.

Ponerology has no data, just rambling and sweeping pronouncements that ascribe the world's ills to another group out there, the psychopaths and their followers. This is simply psychological racism of a very insidious sort. Sort of like what the Stalinists tried, in fact. Label "dissent" as pathological and hospitalize the "dissenters." Label those who don't agree with you as "psychopaths" and hospitalize them for re-education. Could Lobaczewski be feeling guilty for his work in such a system? It would help if he elaborately proved that the people who "made" him do it, and paid his salary for it, were in fact evil psychopaths...

However, all we have for any of it is Laura Knight-Jadczyk's word... In the only somewhat independent review I could fine http://www.moonshineink.com/article_detail.php?id=205
I found this interesting comment:

"Initially, I resisted a book by an academic, but his writing style is not so technical so as to cause complete disengagement; however, it requires focused attention and thought. The editors superb preface and footnotes assist with needed explanations..."

In other words, without Laura Knight-Jadczyk's explanation, Ponerology is almost incomprehensible. As LKJ is also the foremost proponent of Ponerology, her own pathology becomes a key component in evaluating Ponerology. Take the following quote from http://www.ponerology.com/psychopaths_3.html


are hypersensitive and distrustful, while, at the same time, pay little attention to the feelings of others. They tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other peoples intentions. They easily become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature. (Lobaczewski, 123-4)

Okay, "hypersensitive and distrustfull:" LKJ attacks and labels people as psychopaths and cointelpro agents simply because someone gets on their forum and suggests that they have had a good experience with something other than the C-Cult.

Extreme positions and eager to retaliate for minor offenses: The extreme position is the Organic Portal theory, and retaliating for minor offenses is SOP. Again, Mr. Pepin's friends didn't attack LKJ or disrupt the conversation, they just offered a contrary opinion, for which they were branded psychopaths and cointelpro agents.

Eccentric and Odd: Okay, ouiji board alien channeling, exorcisms and divorce based on alien reptoid replicants is decidedly odd and eccentric.

I think you can see where this is going... If you look at these characteristics offered by the guru of psychopaths himself, then a disturbing trend appears; LKJ seems to share and exhibit most of these character traits. The same can be said of this checklist:

Glib and Superficial.

Egocentric and Grandiose.

Lack of empathy.

Deceitful and Manipulative.

Shallow Emotions.

Impulsive.

Poor behavioral controls.

Need for excitement.

Lack of responsibility.

Early behavior problems and adult antisocial behavior.

Lack of remorse of guilt. (Quoted by Hare, 69-70)


Let's look at just one of these: Deceitful and Manipulative...

At http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message115499/...

we can see how Laura's deceit and manipulation work together. On the SnOTT forum, she posted a reply, which was simply a tissue of lies. In my reply above, I quoted an email to her inner circle egroup from the time in question. Here's a snippet:

And here we come to the Vincent saga. Once I realized that I was in the grip of a petty tyrant, I put the "strategy" into operation. All of you witnessed it. It involved systematic harassment of Vincent within the confines of the forum of the group. I did not engage with him in private where he would have slammed me viciously. I knew he would not do that in public. I also investigated his weakness thoroughly - his practice and teaching of rituals that are, in the outside world, connected inextricably with Black Magick. He had another weakness: his association with Dan Winter and his criticism of Stan Tenen.

I spent a day writing the Meru articles on the Perseus page as another "insult" to his ritualistic business because it cuts deep at the heart of the whole kabbalistic foundations of magick.

The strategy calls for being on the alert for a moment in which the weakness can be used against the tyrant. As it turned out, this article was the inducer of that moment - the attack by the Jewish crowd screaming "anti-semitism," followed by Stan Tenen's attack and impending connection of Satanism to Dan Winter, and by default through long association, with Vincent.

It was time to act.
As Don Juan points out, if you are on the alert for the "moment," it always comes.

So, the cancellation was announced IN PUBLIC. The "slave" (us) did what amounted to "taunting" the tyrant and "making fun" of his work and public persona. It made him look ridiculous, as Don Juan suggests is necessary.

And, as Don Juan suggests, part of the strategy is the certainty that the
tyrant will retaliate, but in a covert way.

Vincent began planning his destruction of us. He wrote an email that was supposed to engage the emotions of everyone on the group in his favor - to show how terribly he had been wronged.

But, I blocked it. (and here I will say that a number of others really wanted to "try to work it out" and "make peace in the family. A series of emails were exchanged begging Vincent to think about what he was doing. That only served to further enrage him. He came after me with all that fury - in his email sent to 150 plus recipients. But his rage had blinded him. He acted in ways that clearly revealed his true nature. By this time, he was unable to control himself because he had been provoked. The subsequent webpage was the final series of interactions that led to the resolution.

So there you have it, the whole idea of systematic harassment is based on deceit and manipulation. What kind of person carefully constructs a plan of systematic harassment designed to discredit and manipulate a supposed friend and colleague, and to destroy his conference in the most destructive way possible, while blaming everything on his, calculated and manipulated, reaction?

Now the last time I posted to a DU forum in response to LKJ's lies, one of her followers put me up on his predator website. No comments or dissenting views, just a link to LKJ's "exposes." The fellow, calling hmself purplehaze, then went on LKJ's SnOTT forum and sucked up to the group. Here's a few comments:

"2008-04-14 00:02:56

purplehaze
Padawan Learner
Registered: 2008-03-10
Posts: 60

Re: Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

Miss Isness - we understand your compassion in trying to help Laura get away from this nonsense - but not answering him is just as bad. Bridges, as a full blown psychopath - will take the silence as yet another green light for further attacks and abuse.

As this post says http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/2006/11 / s-say.html - we are all entitled to take the high road by standing up for the truth. You can't go head to head with these nutjobs - so all you can do is put the truth out there for all to see. (and of course, they will attack more because the one thing a psychopath DOESN'T WANT out there - is the truth)

Last edited by purplehaze (2008-04-14 00:03:52)


2008-04-15 23:49:31

purplehaze
Padawan Learner
Registered: 2008-03-10
Posts: 60

Re: Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

The four of us who run EOPC have been through it before. We've all had pathological parents, or friends, or coworkers, or lovers or bosses. Mostly a combo of all of it. Enough to make you "crazy."

But usually you hit the wall somewhere along the line and say STOP. And you show everyone there's just a man behind the curtain and they aren't the "great and powerful Oz." They're a grown up screaming baby and schoolyard bully who got BUSTED. They aren't mature or sane enough to apologize or even take responsibility -

and remember MUD STICKS BEST TO A CLEAN SPOT - so they will smear the best of us in a heartbeat.

Bridges is on our site now and he's not coming down. His little outburst just comfirmed a permanent place on our list of the Exposed.

Last edited by purplehaze (2008-04-15 23:50:12)



VB: Note the complete lack of objectivity on that last one... Basically, if you ask inconvenient questions or bring up things that Laura would rather not address, you are labeled a psychopath with a permanent spot on a predator website. My "little outburst" was a very polite note, belittled on the SnOTT forum, which merely asked that links to the GLP thread and Cassiopaeacult.com be adding to that page on me. See http://www.sott.net/signs/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8574&p...

Dear Site owner/Webmaster,

With all due respect, I do not think you have done your own dilligence on this one. You have linked to Laura Knight-Jadczyk's "expose" pages on me without comment and without a shred of rebuttle, although there is plenty of that available with a simple google search. Given that Ms. Knight-Jadczyk is being sued for libel and defamation over the same sort of accusations, I wonder at your motive is publishing her obviously biased attack articles concerning me.

LKJ presents stacks of "files" that she says support her claims. In fact, they present the clear and obvious evidence of her and the C-Cult's on-going campaign of libel and cyber-harassment against me. In all that pile of crap, they can present not a single shred, not ONE, of evidence of any kind of counter intelligence activity, or even any connection at all to any intelligence agency or group, no matter how remote. Three PI's working on the case and all they can find is a decade old traffic ticket? However, rather than admit that they were wrong, the fact was spun into the idea that I had been sheep dipped, whatever that means, and somehow that implies that the fact that there is no evidence, not one single shred, is in fact proof that I am an agent

At the very least, I would ask that you include the following links:

http:/www.cassiopaeacult.com

and _http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message115499/pg78

Where you can see the evidence that she launched her photographic assault in response to revelations concerning the counter-intelligence background of her husband.

Thank you,

Vincent Bridges


Now before we start buying into a belief system that leads to Stalinist purges of "psychopaths" with Bladerunner style interogations to determine who is and who isn't a psychopath, we should look carefully at the background of the theory's main proponent, Laura Knight-Jadczyk. When we do that, we find many troubling pathologies, from outright theft and fraud, the house raffle scam, to extremes of deceit and manipulation and cultic behavior.

There are better ways to explain and deal with the problem of evil in our society than falling for the old evil of irrational scapegoating...

VB









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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. ponerology being used by Laura
Great post Vincent.

It is vitally important to the discussion here that we understand that Laura's obsession with psychopaths and psychopathic behavior may be revealing her own inner turmoil, her own seeking out of answers as to what is wrong with her. Many psychologists insist on seeing a patient's book collection before doing an analysis just to see what the person is reading and what they may be obsessed with. Laura is an expert on psychopaths because Laura has all of the traits of a psychopath.

Your interpretation of the traits is spot on.

Now one wonders about her constant claims that this person or that person is a "cointelpro" agent. If Laura is possibly a psychopath and she is on a witch hunt for people she can label "psychopaths" does it not make just as much sense that she might be a "cointelpro" agent, trying to hide behind the claims that this person or that person is a "cointelpro" agent?

If she would just once offer an ounce of evidence for these claims - she might have a case. But the fact that she has never offered any evidence, not even one, for her outrageous claims - shows that she is a very dangerous and immoral creature.
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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. THE CULT
http://www.shoutwire.com/comments/full/41423/Shoutwires...

I have not written a research piece since my last article on Israel and felt now is the perfect time to write a new one. This piece is one that hits very close to home for the ShoutWire website. This is one that centers on the "The Cassiopaean Experiment".

To understand The Cassiopaean Experiment one must first understand what a cult is and how to identify one.

You thought Scientology was nuts? Not compared to The Cassiopaean Experiment!

Cult:
A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

While the The Cassiopaean Experiment does not display all the signs of a traditional cult, it has quite a few similarities which cause one to use the term cult to describe it. These similarities include:

1. A pyramid structure with a single leader at the top who creates and defines all the beliefs and practices of the cult.
2. Deception in their recruitment system. Their ideals are hidden in messages to normal people. Only after you join the cult or study it as I have will the hidden ideals become obvious.
3. All the members will always support their leader, no matter what they say or do.
4. Any information that counters their own is labeled disinformation
5. Outsiders who question the cult are defined as enemies and liars who are testing the cult members loyalties (i.e. me).
6. They claim everything and everyone in the world is wrong and the only true path to follow is a path they define.
7. They create messages of fear and impending doom (this should give away the website right now)
8. They create a set of ideals which they use to attract like minded people unknowingly to their cult.
9. They borrow religious beliefs from large mainstream religions, usually Christianity.
10. Aliens and demons are somehow incorporated into their religion

Many people believe they are easily able to identify a cult, and are able to avoid its beliefs. Unfortunately this is untrue and has been proven by so many on this very site who have been drawn into this particular cult. Most do not even recognize the name The Cassiopaean Experiment although anyone who has visited ShoutWire has probably read at least one of their articles.

I am sure you wish to know exactly what group I am talking about so you can ensure that you never again accept anything from this source. Unfortunately if you do this you will not learn from your mistake and could possibly fall for the same tactics again. Instead I hope to teach you about this cult so you are more easily able to identify the teachings of a questionable group the next time you come across them.

This particular cult is lead by a lady who goes by the name Laura Knight Jadczyk. She and her husband Arkadiusz Jadczyk started the group I have identified as The Cassiopaean Experiment. It is hard for me to define all their beliefs as it would take an entire book to cover it all, thus I can only highlight a few of the more off note beliefs they have.

Oh my goodness! Alien reptile babies raining down on planet earth!!! Oh wait, they are just shooting stars, my bad.

It basically is an insane mix of science, mysticism, religion, UFO phenomena, politics and global conspiracies. This broad range of beliefs allows them to attract all sorts of people from all different walks of life. As I was scouring their website for information I came across a few pieces which are just so far out there I just had to spotlight them here. Here is one bit titled Organic Portals: The Other Race Part I:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/organic_portals.htm

Cleckley is describing a person who is able to mimic the human personality, but who leaves the impression that something is not there. They have a personality structure which functions in a manner apparently identical with that of normal, sane functioning and yet when all is said and done, we are dealing here not with a complete man at all but with something that suggests a subtly constructed reflex machine which can mimic the human personality perfectly to the point that no one who examines him in a clinical setting can point out in scientific or objective terms why, or how, he is not real.

That certainly makes me squirm in my seat. A person who mimics the human personality? I guess I must be one of those who mimics a human as I certainly find this belief to be the writing of someone who needs mental help. It goes on to say:

In the first volume of Gnosis, we already referred several times to the coexistence of two essentially different races: one of Men, and another of Anthropoids. We must emphasize the fact that from the esoteric point of view the latter term has no derogatory meaning.

The Scriptures contain more than one reference to the coexistence on our planet of these two humanities which are now alike in form but unlike in essence. We can even say that the whole dramatic history of humanity, from the fall of Adam until today, not excluding the prospect of the new era, is overshadowed by the coexistence of these two human races whose separation will occur only at the Last Judgement.

Here you can see how a mainstream religion is incorporated into their belief as per cult similarity #8. You are also able to see how they view anyone who does not fall into their line of thinking as sub-human a very dangerous idea for a cult to have. I, according to them, am a fake person who pretends to be human in order to try to make them stray from their path. I of course do not realize this as Ive been programmed to not be able to identify the truth and it is impossibly for anyone to physically identify me as such. The only people who have the ability to identify me as inhuman are cult members through the Cs. How convenient for them.

Like all good cults, they have a School you can apply to which is named Quantum Future School. As I was browsing the site I checked out the terms for acceptance and rules for the school. A few sections leaped out at me:

http://www.quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_apply.htm

The first requirements are that the applicant must have read all of the Wave Series and the Adventures Series on the Cassiopaea Website.

Logo of the School
As extra preparation, though not required, you may wish to obtain a copy of Laura's book: Ancient Science: A Radical Reassessment of Myth, History,The Legends of the Holy Grail, and the Science of Ascension

The second requirement is a minimum of three month's participation in the public Cassiopaea Forum, casschat, so that the Admission Committee may assess the applicant's grasp of the networking principle.

While I can understand the reason for screening applicants for a legitimate school, this seems more along the lines of ensuring the pupil is brainwashed long before they actually get to become a part of the inner workings of the cult.

Maybe Im just reading into this too much, but Im sure Im not the only one who gets this kind of vibe. Once they have been brainwashed, the ideas of the school will no longer seem nutty and they will not have individuals questioning the antics of the teacher. Thus the teacher is able to brainwash the pupils without interruption.

If they really are open to discussion I encourage them to allow me to become a part of their school. No I will not read your books; instead I wish to be a free thinker, untainted by your teachings. Of course they will not accept this since if they have anyone in the school laughing and jeering at their antics (which I most certainly would) some of the cult members may start questioning their teachers and the material they are taught although at this point chances are the pupils are so far gone that I wouldn't have a chance at de-brainwashing them.

The eye represents Laura. She has her eye on every part of the cult.

Lets now look more into the defining aspect of a cult the pyramid structure. You are able to see this heavily within the cult. All of their websites are owned and operated by Arkadiusz Jadczyk and Laura Knight-Jadczyk. Although the website often puts Lauras husband as the first name mentioned as a leader, the true head of the cult is Laura herself.

She is the one who writes the books, shes the one who writes the blog, shes the one whose name is plastered all over the articles. Shes the one that's contacted when its a cult-related matter. She has the final say on how the cult works. She is the one who asks the Cs the questions. She has her finger in EVERYTHING the cult does, from flash animations, to advertising, from the donations to the editorials. If you were to remove her from the cult it would not exist. Thus she is the tip of the pyramid.

In the center you have the actual members of the cult. The ones that believe all the teachings of Laura are true and also are the ones who defend everything she says (you will probably see them reply to my article as well). Most are quite intellectual and are able to write quite well as I have personally seen from their writings in their forums. Unfortunately this intelligence is wasted researching archaic ideas, myths, UFOs, and other such off-the-wall nutty ideas.

The bottom of the pyramid is made up of the people who do not realize this is a cult. They follow the least biased articles and items the cult puts out. While they reject certain aspects of what they read, they accept other parts as factual all without knowing they are reading cult propaganda.

So what exactly is The Cassiopaeans Experiment? Ive said a lot about it without actually telling you in detail what they believe. Its hard to get an exact list of what this group believes as their writings are long - very, very VERY long. But after reading quite a lot of their general material I think I know a little about their beliefs. This quote from their website is a perfect example that covers quite a few aspects of what they believe.

"We are you in the Future," they said. "We transmit 'through' the opening that is presented in the locator that you represent as Cassiopaea, due to the strong radio pulses aligned from Cassiopaea, which are due to a pulsar from a neutron star 300 light years behind it, as seen from your locator. This facilitates a clear channel transmission from 6th density to 3rd density."

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/faq.htm

From this quote you can gather just how out of touch with reality the cult really is. They claim they are able to talk to aliens light years away using an ouija board or interviewing people who are hypnotized. You can find hundreds of transcripts of these conversations here (all just as crazy as what you're about to read):

http://perceval.netfirms.com/sessions/sessions.htmm

A picture of one of their C friends! Wonder if they hate pictures of themselves as much as humans do.

Laura seems to lead the conversations with these non-earth beings. Here are some of the question and answers from July 16th 1994.

Q: (L) What is your name?
A: Mucpeor.
Q: (L) Are you from another planet?
A: Alien from your perspective, yes.
Q: (L) What is your group called?
A: Corsas.
Q: (L) Where are you from?
A: Cassiopaea.
Q: (L) Where is that?
A: Near Orion.

I find it funny that alien names still contain vowels in accordance to English language rules. This particular name looks very much like something Id have come up with and I know a bit about randomly made up names mine being Virellek and all. Thought it cannot get any crazier than this? You thought wrong:

Q: (L) Why is this happening to earth?
A: Karma.
Q: (L) What kind of Karma could bring this?
A: Atlantis.
Q: (L) What did the Atlanteans do to bring this on us?
A: We cannot answer you at this time.

Umm what? Atlanteans? Youve got to be kidding me! It sounds like an episode of Stargate SG1 gone bad but no, these guys are dead serious. They also entertain false and made-up prophesies. Check out this comment from July 23, 1994:

Q: (L) Do you have information for us this evening?
A: Space invasion soon. Four to six years. Battle between forces
good and evil. Wait near. Look far. Listen. Mexico falls; Ethiopia
quakes; September both will happen. Near January: Paris bomb;
London Blizzard, 109 die; Plane down in Tahiti; Cholera in Montana
January. Government of U.S. behind California Quakes. Three soon.
Oklahoma political abduction in February. Big news.

The government of the U.S. is behind the California earthquake? In four to six years an alien invasion? Paris Bomb? Maybe if they had said Paris riot they could have come clean, but yes, they went with the bomb. Yet it still gets crazier:

Q: (L) Who is putting implants in us?
A: Orions.
Q: (L) And there is nothing we can do about it? That's sick!
A: A matter of perspective.
Q: (L) What do the Orion's look like?
A: Grays.
Q: (L) Are they big nosed?
A: Both kinds of grays.
Q: (L) Are they insectoid?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they have hive souls?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they have emotions.
A: No.
Q: (L) Do they want human bodies as hosts?
A: Some.

Gray little aliens? Insectoids? Human hosts? I was thinking as I first read this that Laura must watch far too many episodes of the X-Files and Star Trek. Implants for gods sake!?! We already found out in X-Files where the implants have come from; we dont need Laura to tell us!

Think the Gray little aliens are bad? How about lizard people controlling Adolph Hitler:

Q: (L) What influence was Adolf Hitler under when he undertook to do the things he did. Who was guiding him?
A: Lizards. Indirectly.
Q: (L) What connection did they use to influence him?
A: Projected beings of human type, inspired forms of great Aryan spirits.

Oh my goodness its a picture of the real Hitler! I liked him better with his moustache

If I have not yet convinced you that this is a nutty cult, than either you are a part of this cult already, or you enjoy living in a fantasy world where whatever you and a few of your friends believe becomes the truth.

Now that most of us have identified this group as a cult, we can move on. Most will agree that believing anything that is written by such a nutty cult is quite dangerous, yet many, many people on this website do just that. The website I refer to is well known here, many already reject its claims, but unfortunately there are just as many who do not. So let's identify this group.

Signs of the Times - a well known website among the ShoutWire user base is owned an operated by Laura and her followers. Im not the first to cry cult, but I am the first to do a little more digging. This website is one which promotes anti-semetism, hate, propaganda, conspiracies and apocalyptic doomsday scenarios. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, its the mouthpiece of a cult. How a cult crept into ShoutWire with its large groups of anti-religious people I do not know, yet here it is.

Signs of the Times originally started out as the newsletter for its members to discuss the goings on of the world. As it gained popularity (mainly for its well known Pentagon Strike video and their connection to ShoutWire) it tried successfully - to pass itself off as an alternative news site taking advantage of the conspiracy theorists suspicion of the mainstream media.

You will notice they try to avoid the cult label on their website. If you go to any of the websites devoted to their cult, you will find they all have a front page link to Signs of the Times. So why do they not have a front page link from Signs of the Times to their cult websites? Simply because they do not want to be known as a nutty cult as they know very well this completely destroys ANY credibility they have.

Wonder how the cult views you as an unbeliever? You are someone who needs to be countered. If you say anything negative about them, they will get all their buddies to overwhelm you and try to make you look bad. Check these 2 comments in their forum which proves my point:

herondancer wrote:
I just got finished posting comments on shoutWire (9:56 MDT) so we are still there. The argument is that there aren't enough favourable comments to justify the number of shouts. There are accusations that a webot is raising the numbers. So it's time to put the idea of social consensus to work.

M. Howard Write in Reply:
Well, there seems to be a group already hard at work doing the social consensus thing IN REVERSE. Their efforts really need to be countered.

Laura goes on to say people (such as I) are paid goons to sprout hate in a smear campaign against their beliefs. You can also note the email we sent sott@signs-of-the-times.org went directly to Laura, again confirming the fact she runs the entire cult. The whole thread gives you an idea how they view ShoutWire, its readers and how they react to people who think of them as a nutty cult. Read it for yourself:

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/viewtopic.php...


Laura doing her research. If her room is as sloppy as her
'research' I can see why she is so wrong on things.


This cult is trying to make their propaganda sound as if its mainstream, unbiased and acceptable truth. In reality it is complete garbage, right in line with the best propaganda put out by the Nazis in World War 2. FOX news is fairer and balanced than even the most balanced article this website has ever put out.

I do realize my editorial is a direct attack against the people who run SOTT, but in my editorial I tried to use their quotes, their website and their information. If their material comes across as nutty its not because I made it out to be that way its simply because it is nutty.

That being said I believe in freedom of religion and freedom of speech, even in this case. But I also believe that its a two way street. While they have the right to spread their propaganda (as I see it), I have the right to call them a nutty cult and attack their core beliefs. No, they should not be banned off ShoutWire; instead, let them continue their rants and parade of disinformation. Now that the cat's out of the bag, it only turns them into more of a joke than they previously were. Credibility is key and theirs is seriously lacking.

If you want 9/11 conspiracies, visit Alex Jones websites, as at least hes not connected to a nutty cult. If you want anti-Israel news, read a Palestinian website at least they are not part of a cult. If you want negative economic news read a liberal website they are certainly not a cult. There are much better places to receive your alternative news. Getting news from a cult or even a website owned by a cult - is as legitimate as getting it from a religion.

It is my suggestion to you to avoid this website, send them an email and let them know you are not happy with their content. These people need to get a wakeup call that their beliefs are dangerous and borderline schizophrenic. Not everyone is out to get them; most people could care less what they believe as long as they stick to themselves. The only reason I care is because I see false information being accepted by kids who dont look further then whats spoon-fed to them by anyone who has a website and a message of hate towards authority.

To SOTT and its supporters: If you are upset because what I quoted came across as a nutty cult - THATS BECAUSE YOU ARE A NUTTY CULT. You can avoid the term all you want, you can live in denial as long as you want, but its about time you accept the term because it is not you who defines what term is used to refer to your beliefs; it is society and the people that live in it. This society defines you as a cult, so thats what you are, and thats what you will be known as throughout history.

Notes:
----------
Originally I left this out as the article was so long. But I'll tack this on the end here just for interests sake:

If you go to the SOTT website, take a look at their counter at the bottom of the page. Says 13 million people have visited the site since June of this year. Underneath that you will find a link to sitemeter.com. If you look at that you will find a total of 1.4 million at 4,200 a day.

Take out your calculator; punch in 4,200, times it by 30 days, then times by 5 months (the amount of time since the beginning of June). You get 630,000 people since June of 2006. So let me ask you, if they lie about something as stupid as that, what else will they lie about?

Also check out this graph. Notice that ShoutWire has a far more powerful reach than SOTT. Also note that SOTT's reach triples around the same time ShoutWire was created. Wonder why?


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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. THE CULT and PONEROLOGY
The modern definition of a mind control cult is any group which employs mind control and deceptive recruiting techniques. In other words cults trick people into joining and coerce them into staying. This is the definition that most people would agree with. Except the cults themselves of course!

A cult will have a slick well-rehearsed Public Relations front which hides what the group is really like. You will hear how they help the poor, or support research, or peace, or the environment. They will tell you how happy you will be in their group (and everyone in the cult will always seem very happy and enthusiastic, mainly because they have been told to act happy and will get in trouble if they don't). But you will not be told what life is really like in the group, nor what they really believe. These things will be introduced to you slowly, one at a time, so you will not notice the gradual change, until eventually you are practicing and believing things which at the start would have caused you to run a mile.

However cult leaders will tell you can only be "saved" (or can only be successful) in their organization alone. No other organization has the truth, all others miss the mark. So it is not the belief system that decides your future, but it the belief system AND your membership with that particular group.

The cult leaders need to make you believe that there is no where else you can go and still be saved, and if you ever leave the "one true church" then you are going to hell. This is a fear based control mechanism designed to keep you in the cult.

Those who control the information control the person. In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only information supplied by the cult is true.

They tell you that they are not a cult.
This is a preemptive strike against the warnings from friends and family members which they know will come. In fact some cults go as far to tell you that Satan will try and dissuade you by sending family members and friends to tell you it is a cult. When this tactic is used then often a warped form of logic occurs in the recruits' mind, the "agents of Satan" do come and tell them that it is a cult. So since the group predicted that would happen, the group therefore must true! Basically if any group tells you that they are not a cult, or that some people call them a cult, then for goodness sake find out why!

# End of world pressure.
# Secret knowledge.

# Single charismatic leader.
# Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else.
# Experiential rather than logical.
# Asking for money for the next level.

http://www.howcultswork.com /

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Fulcanelli Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-30-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. What happened to Time for Change and Larry Ogg?
That's easy. When confronted with the facts of Laura Knight Jadczyk, her criminal background, her cult, her pseudo science they ran like dogs with their tails between their legs. They simply have no answer for the charges. Like all cult members they cannot see their leader as she really is. Their minds are so needy that they cannot see the truth.

It is an example of weak minds searching for answers. Unfortunately for them the answers only get more complicated with laura Knight Jadczyk.

So I call on them to ask Laura Knight jadczyk themselves. Ask her the questions:

Did you have a House Raffle in 2002 and 2003?

Who was the winner?

Why did you sell the house instead of giving it to the runner up as per the rules?

If you did not give the house away in the raffle - don't you think you should apologize and give back the money you took?

Isn't stealing from innocent people a good example of a pathocracy at work?

Why does Laura call everyone a psychopath without offering any evidence?

Shouldn't she produce evidence if she has it?

Why does Laura Knight Jadczyk call many innocent people "cointelpro" agents with offering a shred of evidence?

Shouldn't she present the evidence if she has any?

Why does she now say that she did not channel aliens from Cassiopaea when the St. petersburg Times has an interview with her where she says exactly that?

Why does she deny it now?

I call on Time for Change and Larry Ogg to take a minute away from writing letters to Laura Knight Jadczyk's forums and take a second to ask her the hard questions. If they don't - then I guess that proves that they really are CULT members.

So many questions. So little time.
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