How should I gently explain to a friend the difference between the two parties?

[Kitty Herder]

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a video or something that effectively explains the difference between the two parties for those who think it doesn't matter whether Democrats or Republicans are in power.

I have a friend who is well-meaning, but ill-informed and gets upset when anyone suggest that perhaps a person might not want to vote for McCain because he's a Republican. This friend thinks that a politician's personal characteristics are the only thing that matters when voting, that ideology and issues don't matter. He honestly thinks that to not vote for someone "just because of their party affiliation" is wrong and somehow bigoted and offensive. To me, this is a bizarre way of looking at things. How on earth can anyone make the case that the ideology of our political leaders just doen't matter? He doesn't see that the Republicans are destroying the country and that is directly related to the way they see the world. He apparently thinks that things like the Iraq war, our massive national debt, the housing crisis brought on by deregulation of the banking industry, etc. just happened, like acts of God.

I posted about this friend earlier, here:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3076435&mesg_id=3076435

I've been mulling over what to say about the subject next time I talk to him, (or if I should say anything at all). I would appreciate advice.

Anyone have any ideas to help gently educate him? I don't want to make him angry, but I'd like to open his eyes just a wee bit. I love this guy and it troubles me to see him so ill-informed. I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but it does. I can argue with the staunch conservatives in my family and that doesn't bother me; but his apathy and ignorance bugs the hell out of me.

[saltpoint]

1. Voting for McCain is like siding with Farmer McGregor over Peter Rabbit.

(amended in respect of the OP's post, with thanks to the OP for graciousness.)

[Kitty Herder]

2. Umm..... Did you read my post, or just the subject line which was only a teaser? nt

[saltpoint]

3. I read it & got it, but am a bit on a hair trigger over a

certain Democratic candidate's endorsement of McCain's patriotism and experience at the expense of her Democratic opponent.

Which gave short shrift to your well-written and thoughtful post. Apologies.

[Kitty Herder]

6. No problem. I feel he same way about that certain Democratic candidate's

endorsement of McCain. It makes me angry.

[saltpoint]

7. You have been very gracious to me while I am in the process of removing

my head from my hindend.

Thank you.

[Kitty Herder]

9. You're welcome. I should have anticipated that some would respond that way.

Maybe my subject line wasn't such a good idea.

[Demeter]

20. Why Not Mention His Apparent Senility, Then?

The man is unfit for office due to deteriorating mind. Regardless of his party. Unless you like puppets for president and empty suits animated by Big Business.

[saltpoint]

23. Hi, Demeter. I just can't get into the McCain scenario. That long-time

right-wing voting record really is a problem.

I like the Dems' chances in November. Even this springtime primary dust-up isn't going to help McCain in the long run, IMO.

It's interesting that this cycle, the nominees' choices for veep may be especially important -- more so than at any time in a long time.

[Subdivisions]

4. Your concern is touching. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. Why are you saying that? The OP looks legit to me. nt

[Kitty Herder]

8. Are you trying to be snarky or somehing? Or do you actually mean that?

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying.

[Subdivisions]

17. Not meant to be snarky, just guarded. If you are genuinely

concerned about the way your friend decides who he will vote for, then I'm glad you're trying to educate him and I think we should all take any opportunity we can to help our friends and family make decisions based on their knowledge of the candidate and not some ethereal notion.

But your subject line as well as your apparent inability to distinguish the two parties for your friend, without assistance, gives me pause as to your motives.

If I come by this feeling mistakenly, then my bad.

Welcome to DU.

Edited to add: I see that you have now changed your subject line. Por Que?

[Kitty Herder]

21. I changed my subject line because people misunderstood and

responded negatively. I wasn't looking for that kind of response.

What I am truly looking for here is help in finding something like a video that I can share with him. I can explain things to him until I'm blue in the face, but I'm half his age, so to him, I don't know a thing.

[Kitty Herder]

22. If you doubt my sincerity, do a search on my previous posts.

You will find I'm no troll. A bit too strong in my opposition to one our Democratic candidates, and far to the left of either of them, but certainly no conservative troll.

[Subdivisions]

25. I appreciate your candor. Thank you. And, again, welcome to DU. n/t

[Kitty Herder]

32. Thanks for the welcome.

:toast:

[angrycarpenter]

10. Democrats want to spread the power/money out. Democracy.

Republicans want to concentrate it at the top. Authoritarianism.

Simplistic but I think that it is the underlying difference in the parties.

[sam sarrha]

11. this is too serious to jest or tease, "Say what you mean, mean what you say..", or be considered a

Troll..

really that crap isn't funny.. just trying to help you out here.. be a grown up. i only opened your subject to see if i should report you,

i still really doubt you.. a certain etiquette is required here, if you ever want to be respected as a progressive thinker.

[Kitty Herder]

16. What do you doubt?

The subject line may have been bad judgement, and I apologize for that. But it expressed the basic question that I would like help in answering for my friend. I'm sorry if I appeared to be a troll. I suppose I will edit the subject line further. Would you also like me to do penance? Perhaps whip myself with a cat-of-nine tails?

You see, my way of thinking is so very different from my friends that I'm unsure how to respond to him in a way that will not offend or be overly patronizing. I don't want to confuse him or go over his head. He's not well versed in poltical thought. I don't think it would help for me to quote Chomsky at him or even Thom Hartmann.

[wuushew]

12. What type of characteristcs does he value?

Appearence? Speaking ability?

When McCain is not flying off the handle or making gaffs he might come across to some people as a mono-tone and non threatening version of their grandfather.

What have his past voting choices been? Dole in 1996? Gore or Bush? Bush or Kerry?




Obama's motivational speaking pitch will destroy McCain's Country Time Lemonade approach.

[Kitty Herder]

18. I think the main thing is that he identifies more with McCain because

McCain is a white male.

I think he's one of those guys who is threatened by the notion of a woman or a black man becoming President. He won't say that, but he couldn't give me any specifics about what he likes about McCain or dislikes about Clinton or Obama.

I'd like him to understand that this goes far beyond identity politics. The future of our country is at stake. It doesn't matter what race or gender a candidate is. What matter is where they stand on the issues. And four more years of Republican ideology will sink this nation. But I failed to communicate that idea to him.

[Kitty Herder]

40. Thank you all for your great responses. I was actually looking for a recommendation for a video

or a simple article that explains the difference simply, but convincingly. I can try to convince him in my own words until I'm blue in the face, but he doesn't think I know anything because to him, I'm just a kid. Plus, I've found that my perspective is too far left, and too wonkish for him to sympathize with.

I've searched, but I can't find anything that fits the bill. Everything I've found is either too long and complex or else too simplistic to be meaningful.

I was hoping someone here would have a good recommendation.

I'm thinking I may send him a link to a talk at that Naomi Wolf gave about her book, The End of America, because I really want to communicate the idea that the Republicans are fascistic and are destroying this country and her talk does an excellent job of that without being too complicated. But I'm not sure he even knows enough about current event to know what she's talking about. Sigh...

Perhaps this is a bad idea and I'll just have to be content to not talk about politics with him.

[Kitty Herder]

41. Ooops, meant to post this under the OP. nt

[Afje]

13. The difference between the GOP and the Dem. Party

is the difference between the Mafia and a backwoods bootlegger

[DFW]

14. Well, there are a few minor details that come to mind

Ok, he thinks "what's done is done." But what about the future?

Such as more extremist ideologue Supreme Court Justices (McCain
likes Alito and Roberts), open-ended occupation (attempted, anyway)
of Iraq (on our, i.el. his, nickel), support of disastrous budget
policies that will continue to erode our economy and our currency,
and an attempted end to abortion rights for women and sanctioned
persecution of gays.

Now if this guy is this far gone, he may think that some of the above
are desirable, but if he's that far gone, then his apathy and ignorance
are not only incurable, but he's proud of them, and wouldn't want it any
other way. This is the kind of guy that will drive off a cliff and think
he'll be OK because he has a pilot's license. How do you argue a point to
someone like that? All you can do wave.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. It will difficult to break your friend out of his mindset that parties aren't important.

Since he feels that individual characteristics are what matters, give him the facts about McCain that contradict the heroic image the MSM have been pushing. Tell your friend about the Keating scandal, the cavalier way he treated his first wife, how he ruthlessly went after the guy who blew the whistle on his second wife stealing from a charity, and how he doesn't know basic facts about the Middle East.

Forget trying to make him a Democrat. Just focus on the character of the candidates.

[Echo In Light]

19. Kudos

[Kitty Herder]

24. Alright, here's what I'm looking for.

I'm hoping someone out there is aware of a video or something like that which explains things simply and would be credible to a 60-year-old white dude.

My problem is two-fold. First, he won't listen to me because I'm just a kid to him. Second, I'm too far left and too wonkish to effectively speak to his political understanding. At least, that's what I experienced when I last spoke with him.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[DavidDvorkin]

26. Republicans: evil. Democrats: semi-good.

[Echo In Light]

27. Abusive parent analogy: one abuses, the other enables it via silence/inaction

[DavidDvorkin]

28. Hmm. That's painfully true.

[Kitty Herder]

31. Good analogy.

And one I think he may be able to relate to. Thanks for posting it.

[kentuck]

29. Something simple.

Like driving a car, you put it in "D" to go forward and "R" to go in reverse. Simple as that.

[navarth]

30. there will be lots of replies to this, I would think. here's my first

How about this:

McCain's utter craven desire to be President no matter how much of his soul he has to part with.

EXAMPLE 1
The 2000 primaries. The cowardly, craven way he responded when Bu$h/Rove swiftboated him in a most dastardly manner. The bit about him having an illegitimate black child, the push polls, etc. AND THEN turns around and HUGS Bu$h (the famous picture) and supports him. Campaigns for him.

And how about this: Have you seen the short video clip of McCain calling Bu$h out about these filthy practices? It was during those 2000 primaries, a televised debate I believe. He came right out and brought it up, called him out....and Bu$h backed him down. I'm not making this up. McCain totally backed off, Bu$h pointing a finger and admonishing him, Don't You Dare Accuse Me, and McCain BACKED DOWN. Where was this famous temper?? Does it only work with female reporters?? Sure hope he doesn't do that when he answers the White House Phone at 3 am.

That wouldn't be so lame if they weren't promoting him as The Tough Guy Soldier that's gonna protect us from the Evil Poor Brown People That Hate Us For Our Freedom. That's his big selling point, right?

EXAMPLE 2
Didn't he call Falwell, Roberston, all Chrisitanuts 'agents of intolerance'? he sure was all enthusiastic about kissing their asses later on.

These are charater and judgement questions. Surely your friend cares about that.

****I believe that all this can easily be pointed out gently but firmly. Assuming your friend is an honest, forthright man, he should be able to deal with it.

I'm just sayin'.

[shireen]

33. easy ... it's fundamentally WE vs. ME

Democrats are interested in policies that benefit everyone at all economic level of society.
Republicans are interested in policies that benefit everyone at the top economic level of society.

[kevsand]

34. In its simplest form, the difference is about who gets freedom.

Republicans generally support social regulation and economic freedom. Democrats generally support economic regulation and social freedom.

What I mean by this is that Republicans tend to think it's okay for them to tell you what you can read or see or do in the privacy of your own bedroom or in a hospital or clinic, but businesses can do whatever they what without any accountability beyond the "invisible hand" of market forces. Democrats tend to think that the profit motive must be closely monitored at all times, while people should be free to live their personal lives any way they see fit. I think this stems primarily from two issues: the Republican extension of constitutional rights of citizenship to the legal fictions known as corporations, and the Democratic separation of church and state.

[krispos42]

35. "Strict father" vs. "nurturing parent" idealologies

As described in "Don't Think of an Elephant!" by Prof. George Lakoff.

How he described the SF mentality back in the spring of '04 is exactly how BushCo is behaving now. I see and hear about BushCo pulling some assinine stunt or another and go "yup, Lakoff was right".


In the SF the father is the moral authority. His moral job is to raise kids in a tough, dangerous world. Shirking that job is immoral, as is relinquishing that moral authority to anybody else (such as Congress). You don't question that moral authority, either.


I have the audiobook if you'd like. PM me.

[Kitty Herder]

37. Thanks for the kind offer, but I already own the book. I read it shortly

after it came out. It's a great book. Thanks for reminding me of it. I think I need to re-read it.

[krispos42]

39. No problem!

:-)

[maveric]

36. Like my late Grandpa used to tell me...

Democrats do things for the common working person and Republicans do things for the rich and corporations.
That may not be as accurate now as it was when he told me that 45 years ago.

[TransitJohn]

38. Here's what I'd say.

"By and large, the Republican Party feels that when corporations and businesses do good, that America is doing good. The Democratic Party feels that when people are doing good, that America is doing good."

But lately I'm wondering about the second part of that. :hide:

[genie_weenie]

42. There is no difference between the PARTIES.

There are differences between candidates, but the parties are both controlled by property and corporate money.

[zonmoy]

54. on that I agree.

[Kitty Herder]

43. Thank you all for your great responses. I was actually looking for a recommendation for a video

or a simple article that explains the difference simply, but convincingly. I can try to convince him in my own words until I'm blue in the face, but he doesn't think I know anything because to him, I'm just a kid. Plus, I've found that my perspective is too far left, and too wonkish for him to sympathize with. Another thing is that I find I'm not communicating effectively lately. Witness this post. I tend to lose my communication skills when I'm depressed and I'm currently struggling with depression yet again.

I've searched, but I can't find anything that fits the bill. Everything I've found is either too long and complex or else too simplistic to be meaningful.

I was hoping someone here would have a good recommendation.

I'm thinking I may send him a link to a talk at that Naomi Wolf gave about her book, The End of America, because I really want to communicate the idea that the Republicans are fascistic and are destroying this country and her talk does an excellent job of that without being too complicated. But I'm not sure he even knows enough about current event to know what she's talking about. Sigh...

Perhaps this is a bad idea and I'll just have to be content to not talk about politics with him.

[yewberry]

44. Do you have a copy of "Don't Think of An Elephant?"

I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for, but chapters 7 and 8 might give you a starting place. Ch. 7 is "What the Right Wants" and ch. 8 is "What Unites Progressives"--together they're less than 15 pages.

It's a very short book and available used for next to nothing.

[Kitty Herder]

45. Yes, I do and I intend to re-read. (Look up a few threads. ) Thanks

for the recommendation, just the same. :toast:

[yewberry]

46. And that's what happens when you don't read the whole thread!

I hope you'll look at those 2 chapters anyway!

Good luck with your friend. His way of thinking doesn't make much sense to me, either. I guess if I were going to try to talk about it with him, I'd have to begin with clarifying my own thoughts about the extent to which we are defined by our values.

In my own case, my values and beliefs about peace, justice, prosperity and equality are not in line with the republican party and thus not in line with McCain, the person they chose to represent their platform and value system. Pretty simple.

[Kitty Herder]

50. You have a good point about clarifying my own thoughts.

I think it's time for me to do that again. My life has been severely disrupted in the past year or so and I find that I'm not as clear about my own moral thinking as I used to be. I was in a bad relationship with a man who tried to hammer me into fitting his own mold, his idea of what "his little woman" should be. (It's amazing how much a person can change once the relationship becomes more committed. He was a completely different person before we got engaged. I'm so glad I broke it off.)

My values never changed, but my courage and clarity in articulating them have suffered severely.

It's probably a good idea to re-clarify one's values every so often anyway.

Thanks for the advice!

[Echo In Light]

52. Don't back away from the "fascist" angle

There has been a great divide among the dem party now for some time:

1) Moderates = very pro-mainstream candidate voters, very much so on the same page as republicans when it comes to the basic tenets of American propaganda; the so called need for outrageous National Security, its phony wars, its "for your own good" legislation, which implement and perpetuate policing and aggression, its systems and {Corporate} "values." And like repubs, are inordinately quick to disavow/deny the existence of the mass criminal conspiracies, for such scenarios cast the shadowy govt of the favored state in too negative of a light {meaning, closer to the truth}, and this is to be avoided and attacked whenever possible, or at the least, downplayed and trivialized as a means of damage control {to the collective belief system}.

2)Liberals = the antithesis of the above description.

Group one would recommend you "lighten up" and don't go so far as to refer to the repub party as "fascists." Group two calls em for what they truly, theoretically, and in practice, represent. How power operates is our longest running human dilemma, hence the enormous and elaborate systems of propaganda that serve to control the public mind.

[Austinitis]

47. Just point out that presidents never just act as individuals

they work hand and hand with members of their party. And that means doing some of what people in their party want.

So there's no way to break the two apart. Bad Party => Bad President.

[Echo In Light]

53. And various corporate and far right theocratic interests as well...all very well funded fundies

[cleveramerican]

48. Democrats envision whats possible, Republicans assume the"safest" position.

[zonmoy]

55. not quite right particularly with current democratic leadership

democrats go hiding in the corner while the republicans bully everybody and steal everything that isn't nailed down.

[Kitty Herder]

56. I was going to say pretty much the same thing. nt

[leftofthedial]

49. Big differences . . .

Repukes want to give all our money to a few super wealthy families. They want corporations to control every facet of our lives. They want us all to be stupid and complacent. They want to eliminate all personal freedom.

Democrats want to let them get away with it.

[TahitiNut]

51. "The Democrats are the party of people. The Republicans are the party of property."

That's how my late uncle, a New Deal Democrat who was in Governor Soapy Williams' cabinet, described it in a nutshell for decades. As an independent liberal, my views regarding incorporated political parties are not as forgiving.

[Thirtieschild]

57. Democrats care about people, Republicans about business

That's what I told my granddaughters, then 10 and 11, when they asked me the difference between the two parties. Their Republican father told them the difference is that Republicans work, Democrats collect welfare. The girls are now 18 and 19 and both are Democrats. Passionate Democrats. Both intend to go to law school; one wants to work with the ACLU, the other with Amnesty International. Am I proud of them? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!