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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:55 AM
Original message
Artist ties up dog in gallery, let's it starve to death while gallery goers watch (warning: graphic)
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:29 PM by HamdenRice
A Central American artist named Guillermo Habacuc Vargas has set off an internet firestorm with an exhibit of what seems to be a work of conceptional art -- tying up a street dog in a gallery in Costa Rica and allowing the animal to starve to death while gallery goers watched.

Vargas apparently saw the sick, malnourished dog in a poor neighborhood. He paid several local children to help him catch the dog. He then tied the starving dog up in the gallery while patrons passed through the exhibit. Some gallery goers asked him to free the dog, but he refused and he instructed the clientele not to feed the dog.

As they entered the gallery, gallery goers were greeted with a cryptic sign, "Eres lo que lees," which means "you are what you are reading." The title was spelled out in dry dog food.

The dog died the day after the exhibit. A blogger page, seemingly by Vargas, documented the work:

http://elperritovive.blogspot.com /

Interpretations of the work of art vary wildly, such as on these two art related boards:

http://www.popgive.com/2008/03/since-when-starving-dog-...

http://www.theginblog.com/2007/10/artist-chains-up-dog-... /

Some see the exhibit as an extreme Milgram experiment -- in other words, the gallery goers' blind obedience to Vargas's command that the dog not be fed shows that people will essentially allow an innocent animal to be killed, because of their proclivity to "follow orders." Others saw the work as a protest against the cruel treatment of dogs in Central America, where street dogs are considered to be little more than vermin. Most internet opinion, however, is simply outraged by what is considered the artist's cruelty.

Photographic images of the starving, sickly, scarred dog -- referred to as perrito ("little dog") and named "Natividad" ("Nativity") -- documented the dog's final hours:

Gallery goers pass by the dying dog:





Street dog, Natividad, mostly skin and bones, tied up in the gallery:







Natividad, severely weakened by starvation, closes his eyes:



The title of the show: You are what you are reading (ie dogfood):





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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've seen this before and it disgusts me in no uncertain terms.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. I believe that was the purpose
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. oh jesus christ! I curse him. You are cursed from Alaska, you bastard,
you and all the nazis who watched this. This is true evil. That poor little dog. I may not be able to sleep tonight. You need more warnings in the header
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. this takes the cake for the most disgusting thing that I've ever seen
torture in the name of art
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Are you sure?
If the dog was dying anyway (it appears only to have been in the gallery one day), can't this be interpreted as putting the condition of dogs and in Central America and the public's callousness "in your face"?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I hate "in your face" anything
especially things like this. It can be interpreted as a person who had a chance to help and did not. They stood by. Thus making them a prick.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Correct
I hate pretentious fuckasses who pull that kind of shit.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. It's kina like the Iraq war isn't it?
They're doing a great job of keeping it out of our faces
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. No, It is not really. Some prick
starving a dog is not the Iraq war, George Bush, or whatever..Some times an asshole is simply that, a heartless asshole.

Coverage has no impact on my ability to follow an issue.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I'm sure you have no trouble following an issue
I'm also very sure you are extremely more capable than the "average" person, this is all around us and is completely ignored.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. That starving dog would have starved to death in the street
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:58 PM by seemslikeadream
and no one, no one but the garbage man would have known. The devastation is Iraq is completely unknown to the American public because it has not been put on the stage, although some are trying
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. that dog may have starved there but it would have been a private
thing. THis is putting a suffering animal in public. This is shit. There is nothing about this that can be weaseled, defended, explained, justified or
whatever. this is evil. He let an animal die and people abetted it. If it had been me, I would have saved it. FUCK THIS! I cannot believe how upsetting this is. WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?>!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. PRIVATE
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:39 PM by seemslikeadream
How can you say private, do you know what you just said did you see the photo?



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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. I know what I just said. This dog was killed for sport, for a stupid
idiot artist's sport. As for any dog I see, I PICK THEM UP. I save them. Its a joke in my family about it. I would save EVERY animal in this world that is suffering if I could. This fucker could save ONE ANIMAL. One fucking animal and he didn't. That dog would killed for 'art'. Fuck him. Don't lecture me on dogs.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. I'm not lecturing you on dogs
LOOK AT THIS PHOTO

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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #89
101. And your damned point? Starving another dog to death makes this
what? I LOOKED AT THE DAMNED PICTURE. It changes nothing.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #101
104.  600 million, the dog population is expected to double within 10 years.
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #104
136. The Hopi Prophecies
Makes Me Wonder What Part of the Hopi Prophecies Are We In?

I guess it's the overlap of world out of balance and life as war...

First, the "artist" did not do anything to the dog beyond delaying the inevitable, so he could observe people and his art patrons -- who he literally called dog food -- "you are what you are reading" made of dry dog food -- and what they would do as they observed a starving dog, while at the same time faced with both the rules of polite society -- not to interfere with or change an artist's artwork -- and the moral and ethical rules which would tend toward alleviating suffering to those creatures who are suffering needlessly.

Despite his admonitions not to feed the dog, there wasn't really anything to stop any one of them from pulling the dog food sign down and laying it where the dog could reach and eat it -- except for the potential embarrassment of offending the artist or possible legal consequences to them -- whatever those might be, though, if any of them had thought about it at all, they might have realized the artist would have had some tall explaining of his own to do if he complained!

Though this would most like only prolonged the inevitable a short while longer. That poor mangy critter was pretty much destined to expire very soon.

It was performance are and maybe the artist wanted to see someone, just anyone, just ONE person feed the dog, or liberate it from its chain...

But people are barely and rarely willing to do that for other people who are starving and suffering, so... they might be less likely to do it for a dog...

BTW, it isn't "murder" as someone called it -- roguevalley, I think -- MURDER is the wanton and willful killing of one HUMAN BEING by another HUMAN BEING. Just wanted to straighten out that point.

And this is one place where things in life are out of balance...

You have some people who make no distinctions between man and the lower animals -- people getting $150.00 massages for their dogs and $4000.00 sex-change operations for their dogs -- no I'm not exaggerating there was a guy who really did this, because his male dog squatted and dribbled instead of hiking a leg and was afraid of other male dogs because of the "humiliation" -- WHILE HUMAN CHILDREN ARE STARVING WORLD-WIDE!

People should have a hierarchy of need, worth and value with a moral-ethical framework.

Somewhere along the way, as a species we seem to have lost that.

People, human beings who are capable of writing poetry and praying should be at the top of the hierarchy and the lower animals should be treated ethically, but not with slavish and lavish adoration, the lower animals such be loved for all the good the are and do, but not worshipped nor put above any human being.

Animals who are suffering should not be ignored in their suffering, but alleviated quickly and as kindly as possible by being given the small kindness of a little bit of water and/or nourishment if they can and will take it and then euthanized.

Not every dog or cat is adoptable, and populations of feral cats and dog packs area danger to the ecology and can carry pestilence to humans from place to place and to domestic pets.

They also consume food and water which is getting in shorter and shorter supply.

People are blinding themselves to it, but there's a shit-storm coming on earth, and the concerns of non-food animals are going to fall along the way sides and go by the boards.

I need to be doing some other things, but I want to finish my thoughts on this...

This artist tried to make people think and get the big picture about all this and it would seem as though he succeeded.

People hate to see ugly pictures of themselves or humankind painted, but sometimes there's the truth in what's there.

Strangely, hearing people railing over the artist and his clients who did nothing made me wonder why people don't get angrier at God who can see a massive amount of starvation and suffering on earth and does nothing about it... or why they don't get angrier at themselves because THERE IS A WORLD OF SUFFERING OUT THERE and THEY THEMSELVES DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #136
153. ...
"People should have a hierarchy of need, worth and value with a moral-ethical framework." Yes, and what we do with the intelligence we are given, we should be much lower on that hierarchy than we are.
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #153
231. Nice Attempt at Being Clever & Profound, But the Problem Is That It's Not True...
...and you cannot find any actual science to support your claim.

We have some competition from the porpoise, and some to a lesser degree from other primates and the elephants, But NONE of the other species write or are capable of writing intricate poetry or pray to an deity which they would be capable of explaining.

And I hate to say this but, people who do not recognize the essential distinctions between humans and the other species are actually something of a danger to the survival of their own species.



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citygal Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #136
212. Please direct your attention to a direct quote from Gandhi:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

...and learn something about compassion.
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #212
234. Others Said It Before Gandhi BUT Put it in Terms of How a Nation Treats Its Children & Elderly...
Repeating: Other Scholars Said It Before Gandhi BUT Put it in Terms of How a Nation Treats Its Children & Elderly...

You know, Human Beings, Yours and My Own Species?

That's the society and nation I live in and am a part of, and it's the one I prefer.

YOU learn some compassion for your own species.

And when it comes to suffering animals, SOMETIMES the most compassionate thing that can be done for them is euthanasia.


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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #136
215. Wow, that's a lot to think about!
Not sure I agree with all of it, but it is really thought provoking. Not sure how I missed this earlier.
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #215
235. It's An Excellent Post, HamdenRice, and Brings Up a Lot of Meaningful Issues! n/t
n/t
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #104
142. This thread is really
:crazy: :freak: :crazy: The artist made quite a statement.
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
126. Well said, Roguevalley
This is the mtotherfuckingest sickest thing I've seen in a very long time.
The"artist" and the people who went into that gallery and did nothing, deserve to spend eternity in the lowest pits of hell. :grr:
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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #61
127. Well said, Roguevalley
This is the motherfuckingest sickest thing I've seen in a very long time.
The"artist" and the people who went into that gallery and did nothing, deserve to spend eternity in the lowest pits of hell. :grr:
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
69. That starving dog
That starving dog could have been fed and given water and in its last hours felt kindness from someone else on this earth. Maybe food and water would have even saved its life.

This is just awful.

If people need a way to illustrate the multitude of horrors on this earth then find some way other than to use innocent, suffering animals.

This dog was not someone's canvas. The man who did this is no artist. This was torture and it was and is reprehensible.

Living, breathing, sentient beings are not "things" to be utilized.

This is so disgusting and atrocious.

Starving a dog to death -- and CHOOSING NOT TO FEED THE DOG = STARVING THE DOG -- has ZERO to do with being anti-war, anti-poverty or anti anything.

F*c*ing bully.

horseshoecrab

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. If the artist is to be believed, the dog was too sick to eat
He claimed at one point that he did indeed try to feed the dog, but it was too sick to eat. The dog would have had to be taken to a vet and fed intravenously.

Again, if he is credible, this is more about omission than commission.
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. It is about commission, trust me.
And so the only thing he could think of to do with the dog was to put it on display?

The "artist" is a poseur.

And I would add: living, breathing, sentient beings are not things to be utilized to make your or anyone else's point.


horseshoecrab

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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. Then he should have
taken it to the vet and had it treated. As a wildlife rehabilitator I get in dying wildlife all the time that people at least have the compassion to bring to me to try and save. I make their last hours as comfortable as possible and euthanize when necessary to prevent suffering. I have nothing good to say about someone who could not at least give the poor animal some water and a towel to lie on in it's last hours. If he had the money to be showing at a gallery, he could have taken the dog to a vet. A pox on him.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. A VET!!!!
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:55 PM by seemslikeadream
Do you have any conception of how many dogs like this exist in Costa Rica alone? A vet, most poor there can't even go to a Dr. let alone strays to a vet
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. Yes a vet
to at least humanely euthanize the dog. I don't care how many stray dogs there are. He was dealing with this one and if he had enough wealth to have a show in a gallery, he had enough to take the dog to the vet. Don't give me any of that crap.He showed no compassion to a starving animal that he was responsible for once he took it into his care.
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. exactly
He was dealing with just one starving animal. Right at that moment.

And there ARE vets in Costa Rica. Friends who have used them say that the care is fine and very inexpensive compared to the states.

This (sneer) artist just wanted to make a point at the expense of the last hours (thanks to him) of this helpless animal.

Imagine if he'd sat with this dying animal, if he really wouldn't eat. What would it have cost? Some time? What would he have received in the end, as payment? The gratitude of a creature who was alone and dying but who now had someone patting him, talking soothingly to him. The memory of being kind to a helpless animal that he could carry with him for a lifetime.

But there was money to made and a "point of view" to be espoused.

This torture has no place in my view of how we change things. No place at all. It can never be rationalized.

Awful awful awful.


horseshoecrab

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #92
239. there is free public health care for ALL in costa rica
the citizens of costa rica have a higher life expectancy than the citizens of the united states

your claim that the poor there cannot go to a doctor is untrue



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GCP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
129. If the dog was too sick to eat
Why did the "artist" put up a sign telling people not to feed it? Huh?
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
225. well said:
"This dog was not someone's canvas. The man who did this is no artist"

a starving, dying creature is not art.
death is not art.
cruelty is not art.

and those who walked by as a witness--their silence and inaction serving as approval--have lost their sense of humanity.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. I see we're kinda having the same reaction
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:33 PM by seemslikeadream
Have you been following what's happening in Turkey?


http://nppthinkdusun.blogspot.com /


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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Hi Slad!
Thanks for the Turkey link!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
58. HamdenRice, your posts is beyond the pale. THIS IS MURDER.
There is no interpretation otherwise. Callousness of a scale that eludes me. THERE IS NO OTHER INTERPRETATION! IF anyone can think so, they need to examine their conscience.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
80. I didn't kill the dog. I showed you the existence of the work.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:43 PM by HamdenRice
As I sit here with my own much beloved dog, I'm as troubled as any animal lover.

But I have also traveled in the third world and seen how street dogs are treated there. As I posted below, in Soweto, many drivers swerve to hit and kill (rather than swerve to avoid) street dogs, seeing it as a public service, helping rid the township of vermin.

Because I know how street dogs are treated in the third world, I see this as the artist taking a real life event from the street (the death by starvation of a street dog) and putting it on display, rather than as creating the event.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #80
200. This is porn for you isn't it? You're getting off on this.
Here's a little more attention - are you coming yet?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #200
218. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
First, and only, really stupid post in this thread!

Congrats!
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #218
220. And yet, no denial. Need a tissue?
Don't be so modest - my little post does not come CLOSE to the stupidity of starting this thread in the first place.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
81. This is murder to
See that fat blue ass in the background? Did she murder that dog? Where are his chains?

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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #81
156. there's more than one fat ass in the background
humans are to blame here.

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
219. murder? it's a DOG
I love my dog as much as the next guy, but I don't consider it on the same level as humans (after all, if I made a human wear a leash and collar, eat from a bowl on the floor and sleep at the foot of my bed, I would be considered either really kinky or really cruel)

murder is for humans, sorry.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
128. wasn't it in the gallery for a week?
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Well, I'm twice disgusted.
Both at the artist for actually letting the dog die and at the gallery-goers for not intervening.

However, it seems as though the artist got his point across rather effectively.

Torture in the name of art, sure. (and that is disgusting) But torture in the name of blind-obedience is the larger issue.

I mean, having a sign made of dog food right there and nobody scraped it off with their fingernails to feed the dog and say "Fuck this 'art'!"?

That's the most disgusting of all.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. "a sign made of dog food right there and nobody scraped it off"
What is there to say? You've said it all.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
135. 'Eres Lo Que Lees'
... 'you are what you read'
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
59. I'm stunned that anyone thinks there is a point to this.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. art to make one THINKK
I in no way condone this but I don't condone any precious treasure being starved to death but it is allowed to go on day after day after day, out of sight out of mind.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
62. THINK MY ASS! God, an animal died of starvation to 'get some
point across? What next? A person? FUck them all!!!!!
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have no words
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:57 AM by Beaverhausen
you know, I was thinking of visiting Costa Rica. Now that I know it is populated by sick fucks like this, I'm changing my mind.

I can't even imagine how this was allowed to happen.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
240. costa rica is not populated by "sick fucks like this"
look, in some countries people eat dogs

i don't agree with the art work but costa rica is a better country than the united states in many ways -- free public health care for all, a longer life expectancy, no army and therefore no invading of other people's lands

i'm not going to sit here and go all holy roller on costa rica because of one action that i don't agree with

it's like all the fuckwits from europe saying "well i was going to visit the usa but then they did this or they did that i didn't like," the truth is the "well i was gonna's" weren't ever gonna do anything or travel anywhere, they just like to hear their own mouth shoot off
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. As a dog lover and an art lover, I say, this is not art.
This guy should be in jail just like the Falcon QB who staged dog fights. (His name escapes me)
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. That is not a work of art.
it is cruelty. It is not edgy or provocative it is lazy and ignorant.

The obvious comparisons between human violence and his condition will be omitted.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. What a heartless motherfucker.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:05 PM by Rex
I hope he dies from starvation one day. :sarcasm:
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. That would be a great art exhibit!
Starving artist! No sarcasm intended. Poetic justice & all.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. What if you knew this result --->
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:33 PM by HamdenRice
Thousands of people signing up on an online petition to stop animal cruelty in Costa Rica, donations flowing to Costa Rica to bolster organizations combatting animal cruelty, and perhaps the rescue of at least some other street dogs?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Slippery Slope
What is someone smacked him with a ball peen hammer. Then we can publicize the need for better mechanisms to treat depressed skull fractures and monitor intercranial pressure. It is wrong.




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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
139. That would be great and I would fully endorse it.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. There is an art ot starvation? Who knew? Shoot the miserable bastard. And, I don't mean the dog.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. I used to have a little respect for the people of Costa Rica.
Now I'm really not sure.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yah - OF COURSE they're all like this guy.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
123. Well, the folks who saw this and did nothing to stop it sure don't impress me.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #123
141. Right, and ALL 4 million Costa Ricans saw this, right?
All 300 million Americans are in Iraq torturing people, don't you know?
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #123
161. what have you done to stop factory farming?
Are battery chickens and hens any less deserving of your sympathy?
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #123
221. millions of Americans ignore starving people every day
and you condemn Costa Ricans for ignoring a starving dog? you? who has enough money to buy a computer and pay for internet access? you know there are people STARVING within a couple of miles of you? no matter where you are? do you have space in your house but haven't taken in a homeless family? do you have food in your cupboards but haven't fed the hungry?

or is letting a dog starve somehow worse than a human?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
124. This is one person in a country of over 4 million
and they may even have anti-animal cruelty laws on the books, but they are likely not enforced.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
140. Wow... do you have a fucking clue about the outrage this caused in Costa Rica?
Do you have any idea about how many people have protested this?

Give me a fucking break, or at least get informed.

:mad:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
228. cos clearly one man determines the entire coutry. like americans with george bush
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Utterly vile. This is psychopathy, not "art". And every person who abetted this is disgusting.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:06 PM by WinkyDink
Poor, harmless little creature of God.

I WOULD, however, consider it justice if the "artist" tied himself up in just this way, with the same results.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. "every person who abetted"
What do you think of the gallery viewers who "obeyed orders"?
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. lessers
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. so many levels so little time
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
157. gutless slime
deserving to starve themselves.

hopelessly lacking empathy. Empathy is the basis of all compassion and morals, regardless of species.

Something is terribly wrong with that country and with the world.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
196. Evil motherfuckers, just like anyone who defends this as "art".
YES, THAT MEANS YOU.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is what happens when you have PC attitudes about what is "art"
"Oh, everything is art. Art is whatever the artist says it is" (like dipping a cross in a tub of urine).

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aasleka Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. It is impossible for me to function correctly while there are people like this in the world
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:23 PM
Original message
I agree, aasleka
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
163. The "artist" in the OP, too.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:26 PM by kgfnally
I hear you.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
134. hey, i liked "Piss Christ" a lot and thought it was very meaningful spiritual art
i was raised catholic and hold no great animosity to my upbringing (anymore), but when i saw that piece of art i found it resonated deeply with a spiritual and religious consciousness i thought i walked away from. i was truly moved by that work and i would appreciate it if other people desist in blanketing it as the icon of "non-art".

you found "Piss Christ" to not be art -- i did. your standards about it mean nothing to mine, and i don't take kindly about others saying my aesthetics do not have value. thank you.
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anonymeme Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #134
237. A Sudden Flash of Beauty in the Most Unexpected of Places!




Which I believe was inspired by the ancient artistic practice of using urine to plunge works of bronze, copper or brass into in order for them to achieve that perfect greenish bronze verdigris patina on them.

You know that Picasso had two bronze goats on his grounds that he had made for his children grandchildren to play with and a big joke for him was to tell the children to go pee-pee on the goats -- because he knew by doing that they were helping develop the patina on the goat!

I think the artist got the idea when he plunged a bronze cross into the fish-tank filled with urine that was used to create the patina on the artworks and in that moment in the creation of art, a shard of sunlight shined into the tank and the incredibly beautiful glow it created as if a veil of spirit surrounded the crucifix, was so overwhelmingly beautiful, he thought to photograph it, and to try other substances to see which gave the most luminescence and photographed the best of those!









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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
147. Bullshit.
There is a big difference between a dung mary and piss christ versus deliberately torturing a living being under the guise of art.

Someone thumbtacking a piece of rope and calling it art isn't hurting a thing. Putting a goldfish in a working blender and encouraging attendees to push the button is.

The worst controversial art will do is hurt feelings.

There is nothing arty about torturing living beings.

The difference is quite obvious and I'm sorry if you can't see it.


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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #147
201. Exactly!
Freedom of expression is one thing; freedom to allow a living creature to starve to death for your 'art' is another.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
151. OK Jesse Helms
... please don't take out frustrations about this dog's mistreatment on artists in general...

There is a lot of art that is about concepts, ideas, and provoking reactions. Some like it, some don't. The dog exhibit being discussed here crosses the line because it is objectionable that people did not help the dog, but it does not equate to the photo of the cross in urine you refer to--which hurt nobody. An important distinction.

The #1 question in this dog situation is NOT "is it art?" The question is--is watching a dog die of starvation ethical, in order to make a point that people are ignoring the dogs dying in the streets? Is this a humane society where this happens? If this had been filmed like a documentary, would that make it any better? What about photos of people dying in Iraq--is that ethical?

This is a topic worth discussing because it brings up a lot of questions about human societies and our relationship to animals and each other. It really isn't so much about how you define art--as social commentary clearly CAN be the domain of art. I don't defend this artist's doing this with the dog but I also don't want to make all other artists guilty by association either.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
162. Nice try, but "Piss Christ" was a PAINTING
This is was a living thing.

Life trumps any and all depictions of the cross. Period.

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
171. A cross in urine didn't torture an innocent animal.
It just offended a bunch of sanctimonious asswipes. Not the same thing, at all.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
195. Errrr, no. Dipping a cross in a tub of urine is just disgusting. This is CRIMINAL. -nt
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. I would like to announce my new art project.
I am going to tie this artist up and beat him with oriental martial arts weapons. My magnum opus, I believe.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
172. It's incredible, how many DUers are actually *defending* this "artwork", isn't it?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:45 PM by kgfnally
Seemslikeadream is particularly appalling. I simply cannot grok those defending this "artist".

What the fuck is wrong with this place lately- are all the old-tyme republican hidden trolls suddenly coming out, or what? Suddenly, I've noticed a bunch of old-timers from way back morphing into absolutely fucking nutso unempathetic wackos. I'd blame the primaries, but they do it on threads like this one, too.

Are you seeing what I'm seeing, or is it just me?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. Explains why people could live near Auschwitz and
yet not "know" anything was going on....

Oy vey!

Human beings are sick demented creatures.

And we call ourselves the higher life form.

Sick...

If possible, OP, please put a notice advising that the pictures may be graphic to some.

Thank you!!
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thanks!
While I certainly wouldn't do what he did (look at my avatar), I think it's important to get what he is doing.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
65. yeah, he showed that he and others are nazis and hey will do anything
to attract attention. going into the slums and rescuing dogs is humane. starving one to death when you could have saved its suffering innocent heart is murder. Fuck 'performance art'. Fuckers. Fuck em.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Exactly...Well, I almost agree...
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:23 PM by saddlesore
Not all human beings are sick demented creatures...yourself for instance...and the OP, I am sure there are others. I even know some Germans who were in Germany at that time and some of them did what they could at great peril.

Peace.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. yes explains
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am not sure what sickens me more...
the fact that no one broke free of the verbal commands and tried to rescue the dog, or the fact that we have even gotten to the point where this type of demonstration even happened...

Poor perrito...and all the hundreds of others who died that day without anyone even knowing of it...
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. I want to tie up Guillermo Habacuc Vargas
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 12:20 PM by undergroundpanther
And let him starve to death with the corpse of that poor dog , where he could see it, smell it but could not touch it. There would be a sign saying to 'patrons' do not feed or care about this miserable man,for he is an object now,a piece of process art.The piece it would be entitled " requiem for a cruel asshole".

Grrrooowwwrrrl,
Sometimes humanity is so fucking grotesque. I wish like hell I could have seen this so called 'exhibit' I would have unhooked the dog told Guillmero to kiss my gringo ass and got that dog help and quite possibly if he could be helped,adopt him. That's not art,it's ABUSE, and there is no art or beauty in abuse. FUCK YOU Vargas and the society that thinks abuse is art..
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. "I would have unhooked the dog"
Why do you think nobody did? Would you really have done so? I think I would have not believed the artist was really going to let the dog die. I also would have been intimidated by the idea of "defacing" someone's "art."

I think we are more like those patrons that we like to admit.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
67. GOD DAMNED RIGHT I WOULD HAVE SAVED THE DOG!
Intimidated by someone's art? That is too bad. Don't count me among them. I have done worse with less provocation.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
164. how many battery hens
or cattle destined to become veal, geese being forced fed to death or rats/rabbits poisoned for beauty tests have you saved?

How many Iraqi people have you prevented being slaughter by your army?

There are bigger issues than one dog
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #67
208. delete- not worth it.
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 01:45 PM by cryingshame
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
78. HamdenRice, I understand the point
you are trying to get to; that people will do things in blind obedience that they would never conceive of doing (or not doing, in this case) were they to think about their actions.

Your point of not believing that the artist would allow the dog to die is extremely valid. We do not want to believe that other humans are capable of that level of cruelty, because to do so would mean we have to admit that we are capable of the same.

That said, I believe that the artist stepped over the line from making a statement about human weaknesses and human cruelty to actual cruelty.

He could have made the point in an hour or two, videotaping or photographing the viewers doing exactly what they did - nothing.

After an hour, he could have removed the dog for care. The fact that he did this with a sick, starving animal is disgusting in and of itself (imo), but the fact that he took the extra step and allowed the animal to die negates the purpose of his installation.

Perhaps the dog would have died anyway. But at least it would have spent its last hours being cared for rather than suffering.

I'm glad that people are giving money to improve animal welfare, but it is a sad testament that it took this disgusting action to open their eyes. And the artist went too far - he became what he was apparently trying to criticise. He deserves nothing but derision.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. "from making a statement about human weaknesses and human cruelty to actual cruelty"
Great, insightful post. I agree with everything you say, and you put into words some inchoate feelings I had about this.

On the other hand, having seen how dogs are treated in the third world, I also feel that he can legitimately say he was putting that cruelty that was happening out in the world in a gallery, rather than actually creating the cruelty.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #83
108. creating cruelty
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 02:36 PM by undergroundpanther
is cruelty itself.Cruelty needs no reasons or justifications, to pretend cruelty isn't cruelty ,denying it is what it is hypocrisy denied. It is cruelty regardless of how it presents itself,or the excuses or labels one puts on cruelty, it is cruel and it is WRONG. The exhibit was cruel.period. And it was abusive.and WRONG.A symptom of a world without love or empathy. Would you put a human who was in a car accident in a room and let him die deliberately and call it"art"? What about a person dying from ebola would you chain him around the neck in a bio-hazard isolation room set up in an art museum and let them die while people watch for art's sake?
Than why do it to a dog?


I don't give a shit what he was trying to say about society,he could say it another way without killing a dog and calling it art. That is just disgusting. Cruelty twords a powerless being is not art, it is not beauty ,it is not a useful learning tool for anyone. It is evil.And too many "good" bystanders responded like they do to evil in their midst that lets it prevail, they do NOTHING.

Bystanders need to make a choice way before they encounter a bad situation,They need to choose deliberately as a matter of principle to step up and help shoulder the responsibility for justice because this world is not just,fair or kind or good.We must be the kindness, justice and empathy in the world that has too few of these things.
Justice and love like always begins with each one of us deciding to walk our talk..
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
105. abuse is rampant in most if not all cultures.
and it needs to be recognized and stopped.
Too many people respect people that do not deserve respect at in"authority",too many people by-stand out of selfish anxiety, too many people do nothing because the abuser offers the easy path,while the victim demands we help,stand up, intervene tell the truth to power,and become engaged..in making things just.

There is no just world.
There could be a semblance of justice when each of us decide to shoulder the responsibility for each others well being and decide to act and say fuck the anxiety and risk and help anyway.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
100. I long ago swore to myself this:
I will never by stand. Because I have been through really bad traumas and people just stood there, scared and locked up in their own selfish anxiety to respond. I swore to myself I would not do that,and I would risk intervention. Because nobody intervened for me. I know how bad it hurt me and I refuse to stand by. Getting involved has been risky it has gotten me hurt, in court to testify but for me I had to help. I swore TO MYSELF,I would not by stand, like others did,and I know abuse when I see it and I know personally the damage it does and I have decided to intervene,and the choice has been made consiously long before I run into a situation that needs intervention.. So I will always intervene,when it is called for. I mistrust and HATE authority,especially authoritarians who abuse power. . I hate the culture of make believe.And I don't give a shit what anyone thinks,of me or whatever. I do what I have to do in a situation for my mind is already made up.I do it not just so I can sleep at night..I am very decisive when I make up my mind to do something or make a promise to myself I do it with no regrets.Because I CHOOSE to.

I walk my talk.Many times I have been in situations where I could have stood by, but I refused to be uninvolved or "play the game"and getting involved it changed everything and often it saved someone or some being pain and trauma..

I know about the Stanford prison experiment,and the lessons of it and knowing how that is I take pains to not fall in line.I lived in a total environment similar to jail for many years .I was in in mental hospitals and there I got my ass in hot water for standing up for patients too intimidated by staff's supposed authority and idiotic abusive mind fucking games to stand up for themselves.Some patients had anxiety attacks when staff would bark orders at them like dogs. Once I organized a unit riot so some people on an adolescent ward I was on could graduate high school.I refuse to recognize ANY authority, for authority is an empty sound ,for we are all people and no bully can harm me any worse than how I have been harmed already..

I hate abusers of power with a hate inside that never dies. Maybe it is because I have been through so much shit from abusers of power and trust. I refuse to play pretend with myself about this issue and how sickeningly evil this society is regarding abuse..

I saved my moms life when my father tried to kill her with a gun,when I was 14.

I have rescued animals from abusive assholes before too..There was a cat I helped years ago , Fricka. She was owned by an abusive prick who bit her ears, kicked and beat her. My sister was baby sitting for these monsters and she told me about the cat.I got pissed off. One day she waited until the people were gone and took me to see this cat. I saw her,under the bed her eyes huge in terror she was black ,and she hissed at me, looking absolutely demonic. I felt tears well up. I got her from under the bed, than I saw her ears with human teeth scars all over them ,and she had blood coming out of her nose. That was enough for me. I snatched her out of that place so fast she didn't know what was happening,I was told she had been de-clawed,So I crammed her under my teeshirt,held her tightly against my chest having nothing else to hold her and I stole her.
She was nine years old.

I ran across the apartment complex lawn to my apartment, I took her to my bedroom,I checked her out I called the vet and got her help,she had cracked ribs a bruised kidney,and blunt force trauma. But she got better and she lived with me for 6 more years,she was my lover cat my Fricka Foo..she was so sweet.She stopped being so afraid when she realized nobody would hurt her again. She was incredibly photogenic. She died of kidney failure at age 14, her kidneys had taken many hits so I fed her special food,and it was her kidneys that gave out . I loved her and she never trusted men again.She jumped in my male friend's lap once he was very kind to her.She sat there for a whole 10 seconds,and got pet by him and she got a whole can of tuna for that!

I wrote this for her when she died.

Fricka

Fricka My Cat, my dear
It is so lonely when you're not here
It feels like a deep heartbreak
Old age,long ago hurts,and heart sickness
wrapped around you like a foul dark snake
Taking away your precious life
The reality of it all hits me like a knife
Emptiness is what my heart will know

I miss your warm passionate hugs,
your deep rattling purr..
your vivid yellow eyes
your shining black fur
These memories hurt but they're mine to keep
In my dreams I'll remember your delicate mew,
Fricka my love, I'll never forget you.
Oct.23 1990

I have I think,internalized "never again and never forget". Trauma can at some point in some people I guess depending on their make up can change the 'relationship' to power, powerlessness, the urge to by stand or deny, and 'authority' in a lasting way.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Sometimes humanity is so fucking grotesque
SOMETIMES?

This is happening every second of every day, day in and day out
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
71. I say sometimes because there *are * people disgused by shit like this
You and I and others here that are just repulsed and angered by such cruelty. That is why sometimes was put there.Maybe I should have put a few times?
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Reminds me of a recent movie
where a serial killer films his murders via web cam and increasing hits to the web site hasten the murder. Can't remember the movie name though. Senior moment...
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. What does this say of our society?
I could not walk into that gallery and not try to help the dog. I wonder what would have happened if someone did try. In Arkansas, the "artist" would have been arrested for animal cruelty, and the poor dog would have been taken to a shelter for treatment. If it could not have been saved, it would have been allowed a peaceful death. I know, because I have friends who are Animal Cruelty officers, and this is what they would have done.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. What does this say about the human species? NT
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. I wouldn't go that far,
maybe because of my friends Jim and Linda, the animal protection officers. They took training and have the authority to arrest folks who are obviously abusing animals, but mainly they do investigations. They take a lot of photos--and from some I've seen, the poor little dog had it good by comparison. They have had to get police backup because sometimes the animal abusers get violent. They've told me that it isn't uncommon to find abuse of family members going on. Oh, forgot to mention: these folks are not paid for their services. They do it because they feel it is the right thing to do.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
116. I would do it
but I have a problem, according to some.. I wouldn't fuck around with risking a judge who is sympathetic or a jury of apathetic jerks, I'd make justice on the spot.. kill the abusers myself.. Just blow their brains out right there after I saw what was the abuser had done and what was happening.If kids were being abused I'd make sure the kids didn't see me kill the abuser fuck wad. I don't want to add more trauma to the already traumatized. Sometimes death is the kindest thing to do in some circumstances.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. Under any criteria, how the hell does this qualify as "Art"
Sick fucks.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. Maybe it would be best if we all lived in Turkey
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
44. This is why they hate us.
Let's see who defends this.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
48. I Don't Care What Point The Killer Was Trying To Make
Tying up and starving an animal is immoral and totally disgusting.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. "The Killer" or "The shower"
According to the artist, the dog was dying, and too sick to eat. He took from the street what was happening and made people look at it.

As a dog lover, I would have taken the dog to the vet. In fact, I just started feeding a little stray dog that found a way into my back yard.

But I get what he was saying.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Tying It Up Was Still Cruel nt
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. I believe he was a very brave and caring person
He has probably lived seeing this on a daily basis and maybe he felt like shouting to everyone but no one would listen, no one was doing anything about it. Maybe he cared so much for the creatures that it was hurting his heart and this was the only way someone would notice. I wonder if someone is noticing now, and what they are focusing on, the millions of other starving dogs or that vicious person that brought attention to it.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
72. Bullshit. If he was truly caring he would have used his 'art' to organize
a way to save animals. The fucker cannot be excused and alibied. Only a sadist would do this and frankly, it astounds me that anyone could try and find an excuse for this. Hurting his heart? What heart. Go out and save them, even a few. Don't torment an animal that was trying to connect with people to get comfort. If you know dogs and you look at those pictures, you will see that he's still trying to make the covenant with man that dogs have. FUCK THIS SHIT!
OP, PLEASE PUT MORE WARNINGS NEXT TIME. THis makes me ill.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
143. Sadists might believe he is "very brave and caring"; normal people dislike torture for any reason
People with normal compassion don't need to see any animal tortured to death to understand what animal suffering is. Some people lack compassion and empathy and will find making displays of torture 'caring and brave.' I'm glad you understand now, but I'm so sorry it took such suffering to make get you to understand.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #143
165. You are the most sanctimonious person I've met all day
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:32 PM by seemslikeadream
MILLIONS MILLIONS OF ANIMALS DIE EVERY DAY FROM STARVATION











AND SO DO MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #165
175. And that excuses this guy for letting the dog starve to death?
What's next? Is he going to tie up a child and let him/her starve to death in front of other people? That does seem like the next logical step, after all. Would you call him caring and compassionate then? The fact is that if he really did care, and wasn't such a psychopathic attention whore, he would have had the dog treated at the nearest vet and then donated time and money to local animal welfare groups.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #165
181. 'Sanctimonious' from you is the funniest thing ever. Really.
Yes, sweetie, we all know terrible things are happening every day. To bad you needed a little spectacle to make you believe it was real.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #181
185. ARE YOU SHITTING ME?
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 06:04 AM by seemslikeadream
It did not take this incident to make me believe RESEARCH MY POSTS OVER THE LAST 6 YEARS HERE


TRY THESE VIDS OF MINE QUICK WAY OF FINDING OUT

I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT HOMELESS VETS AND SOLDIERS DYING TO FAKE OUTRAGE OVER A DOG. PICK AN OUTRAGE SIR SO MANY SO LITTLE TIME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Py5I8Z-aM0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Py5I8Z-aM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5G4zgk9xao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5G4zgk9xao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkv-gZqrAeE
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #185
209. I'm quite aware of your history of sanctimonious outrage, thank you
No one feels anything quite as much as you do, oh master of all faked outrage.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #209
226. TOTAL BULLSHIT
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 04:43 PM by seemslikeadream
FROM YOU, FUNNY I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER ONE SINGLE POST FROM YOU

OH NOW I SEE THIS IS SOME OLD GRUDGE YOU'VE HELD AGAINST ME AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
OP


REX EXAMPLE
fuck fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck spleen fuck fuckity fuck fuck spleen fuckity fuckity fuck spleen


seemslikeadream EXAMPLE

2506 "I'm waiting to hear the words 'I was wrong' Dick Morris, 4/9/03
Tue Jun 20th 2006, 03:59 PM
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/seemslikeadre...


"Tommy Franks and the coalition forces have demonstrated the old axiom
that boldness on the battlefield produces swift and relatively
bloodless victory. The three-week swing through Iraq has utterly
shattered skeptics' complaints." (Fox News Channel's Tony Snow,
4/27/03)



"The only people who think this wasn't a victory are Upper Westside
liberals, and a few people here in Washington." (Charles Krauthammer,
Inside Washington, WUSA-TV, 4/19/03)



"I will bet you the best dinner in the gaslight district of San Diego
that military action will not last more than a week. Are you willing to
take that wager?" (Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly, 1/29/03)



"What's he going to talk about a year from now, the fact that the war
went too well and it's over? I mean, don't these things sort of lose
their--Isn't there a fresh date on some of these debate points?"
(MSNBC's Chris Matthews, speaking about Howard Dean--4/9/03)



"It is amazing how thorough the victory in Iraq really was in the
broadest context..... And the silence, I think, is that it's clear that
nobody can do anything about it. There isn't anybody who can stop him.
The Democrats can't oppose--cannot oppose him politically."
(Washington Post reporter Jeff Birnbaum-- Fox News Channel, 5/2/03)



"Now that the war in Iraq is all but over, should the people in
Hollywood who opposed the president admit they were wrong?"
(Fox News Channel's Alan Colmes, 4/25/03)



"I'm waiting to hear the words 'I was wrong' from some of the world's
most elite journalists, politicians and Hollywood types.... I just
wonder, who's going to be the first elitist to show the character to
say: 'Hey, America, guess what? I was wrong'? Maybe the White House
will get an apology, first, from the New York Times' Maureen Dowd. Now,
Ms. Dowd mocked the morality of this war....

"Do you all remember Scott Ritter, you know, the former chief U.N.
weapons inspector who played chief stooge for Saddam Hussein? Well, Mr.
Ritter actually told a French radio network that -- quote, "The United
States is going to leave Baghdad with its tail between its legs,
defeated." Sorry, Scott. I think you've been chasing the wrong tail,
again.

"Over the next couple of weeks when we find the chemical weapons this
guy was amassing, the fact that this war was attacked by the left and
so the right was so vindicated, I think, really means that the left is
going to have to hang its head for three or four more years."
(Fox News Channel's Dick Morris, 4/9/03)



"This has been a tough war for commentators on the American left. To
hope for defeat meant cheering for Saddam Hussein. To hope for victory
meant cheering for President Bush. The toppling of Mr. Hussein, or at
least a statue of him, has made their arguments even harder to defend.
Liberal writers for ideologically driven magazines like The Nation and
for less overtly political ones like The New Yorker did not predict a
defeat, but the terrible consequences many warned of have not happened.
Now liberal commentators must address the victory at hand and confront
an ascendant conservative juggernaut that asserts United States might
can set the world right."
(New York Times reporter David Carr, 4/16/03)



"Well, the hot story of the week is victory.... The Tommy Franks-Don
Rumsfeld battle plan, war plan, worked brilliantly, a three-week war
with mercifully few American deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths.... There
is a lot of work yet to do, but all the naysayers have been humiliated
so far.... The final word on this is, hooray."
(Fox News Channel's Morton Kondracke, 4/12/03)



"Shouldn't the prime minister and all of us who thought the
war was hasty and dangerous and wrongheaded admit that we were wrong? I
mean, with the pictures of those Iraqis dancing in the streets, hauling
down statues of Saddam Hussein and gushing their thanks to the
Americans, isn't it clear that President Bush and Britain's Tony Blair
were right all along? If we believe it's a good thing that Hussein's
regime has been dismantled, aren't we hypocritical not to acknowledge
Bush's superior judgment?... Why can't those of us who thought the war
was a bad idea (or, at any rate, a premature one) let it go now and
just join in celebrating the victory wrought by our magnificent
military forces?"
(Washington Post's William Raspberry, 4/14/03)



"This will be no war -- there will be a fairly brief and ruthless
military intervention.... The president will give an order. attack] will be rapid, accurate and dazzling.... It will be greeted by
the majority of the Iraqi people as an emancipation. And I say, bring
it on."
(Christopher Hitchens, in a 1/28/03 debate-- cited in the Observer,
3/30/03)



"Speaking to the U.N. Security Council last week, Secretary of State
Colin Powell made so strong a case that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
is in material breach of U.N. resolutions that only the duped, the dumb
and the desperate could ignore it."
(Cal Thomas, syndicated column, 2/12/03)




Until the philosophy,
Which holds one race superior
And another inferior,
Is finally and permanently
Discredited and abandoned,
Everywhere is war.

WAR

Until there is no longer first class
Or second class citizens of any nation.
Until the color of a man's skin,
Is of no more significance than
The color of his eyes,
I've got to say "war".

WAR

That until the basic human rights,
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race,
I'll say "war"

Until that day the dream of lasting peace,
World-citizenship and the rule of
International morality will remain
Just a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never obtained.
And everywhere is war.

Until the ignoble and unhappy regime
Which holds all of us through,
Child-abuse, yeah, child-abuse yeah,
Sub-human bondage has been toppled,
Utterly destroyed,
Everywhere is war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south,
There is war,
And the rumors of war.

Until that day,
the african continent will know no peace
There is no continent,
Which will know peace.

Children, children.

Fight!

We find it necessary.
We know we will win.
We have confidence in the victory
Of good over evil
Of good over evil

Fight the real enemy!

Bob Marley
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #165
214. No, you're claiming that title
You've been called on this sadistic bullshit attitude of yours numerous times, yet keep coming around to "But...but...he was just making a point!" "Other people suffer too!"

No shit, Sherlock, look at the website you're on. You really think we don't "get" that? A poster above had it right - the "artist" could have done this for an hour or two, then showed the video and gotten the dog some care. Instead, he let it die. This makes him no different than all of those dipshit art museum patrons who did nothing as well.

Would you defend someone letting a child starve to death in an art museum to "get the point across"?
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #55
179. I agree. This was not a vicious act.
This was a wake-up call.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. according to the artist. you believe a sick fuck who would do this
and call it art? I remember is nazi germany they made lampshades and things out of human skin and called it art. Nothing that sick fuck could say would I believe. I hope he gets hounded out of his skull for this. Then maybe anyone who does it can call it performance art and he will just have to endure it, the nazi
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
96. As much as you try to make me into an animal hater I am not

and here are just two of the 75? animals/koi/birds I've been taking care of, some for more than 18 years now


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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #96
144. Living with dogs and fish does not automatically grant one empathy
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. Awesome Country... except for the stray dogs
http://www.43things.com/entries/view/2374266




humm... I wonder what she might have meant????
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
51. one of the millions of stray dogs
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:04 PM by seemslikeadream
DO THIS DOG LOOK TIED UP??????

SEE ANYONE STOPPING TO FEED THE POOR PITIFUL THING????????????


http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1391567912073866358tgM...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. In Soweto, many drivers swerve to hit (not avoid) stray dogs
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:08 PM by HamdenRice
They see it as a public service.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
166. where I live
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:36 PM by Djinn
you can call a professional poisoner who will come and administer animals with a poison that makes them hemorrhage internally, eventually they bleed to death.

it's considered a public service - called rat control

you can also be paid by the government to enter another people's land and kill them if they do not follow your orders.

it's considered a public service - called the army

we ignore cruelty all the time, everywhere, to fellow human beings as well as animals. Some animals/people get a bit of an advantage by dint of being cute but mostly we couldn't care less
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aasleka Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
107. This dog does not appear to be starving.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
54. Dear Mr. Vargas,
Clearly, you are trying to make a point about the docility and cowardice of the gallery visitors.
"Some gallery goers asked him to free the dog, but he refused and he instructed the clientele not to feed the dog."
Please come to New York City and try your "art" here.
I will gladly visit your "art", I'll even pay the admission fee.
Then I will take the dog to a shelter.
I am 6'4" tall and weigh 210 pounds, so come make your point here.
You can videotape the fistfight and call it "art"!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. How many strays have you picked up in NY lately?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:16 PM by seemslikeadream
or just feed?
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. You're playing "gotcha" with the wrong guy.
Have rescued and fed plenty.
You?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. yes
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:23 PM by seemslikeadream
many

are you going down there to rescue the millions that await?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
90. you are a sick puppy. go and enjoy the spectacle. and bite me.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #63
109. You want me to personally save millions of animals?
I do what I can.

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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
74. you assume that people don't. I make a point of it. Many, many
animals have been saved by me. How many have you saved, seemslikeadream? Or is alibing sadists more your line?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. this has caused an uproar. some info
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. to start and no the end
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:50 PM by seemslikeadream
The four BlueFront Amazon Parrots I've been caring for them for 18 years, do you have any idea how much time and effort there is in taking care of 4 of them!!!! Then there's the countless dogs, over 200 Koi fish, I could go on and on

but I can't do over a MILLION STRAYS IN COSTA RICA
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. well, don't worry. there is one less now.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Since this thread was started I guarantee you there's way more than that
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #94
102. and so fucking what? Nothing that prick did made things better.
He just added to the cruelty. PLONK!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
79. there is no way
that this would have happened in the United States where in general dogs don't starve. They are usually euthanized before that happens. I have a Chinese friend who says that in America, pets are #1, children are #2, and husbands are #3. Not to defend it, but just to say that other countries have different values.

This Costa Rican thing is a strange juxtaposition of social commentary and psychological experiment that may only "work" in a country used to open cruelty to animals. Technically it makes a social commentary whether you agree with it or not. Our cruelty to animals and to people in this country is much more hidden (supposedly it only happens in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib).

I'm not sure we are any less barbaric.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. LMAO! Sounds like Borat: "We say First God, then Man, then Horse, then Wife..."
or something to that effect: "pets are #1, children are #2, and husbands are #3"

Don't mean to laugh, though.

Even stranger is that Costa Rica is one of the most progressive societies in Latin America. IIRC, they have abolished the military.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #79
97. *****
commentary and psychological experiment that may only "work" in a country used to open cruelty to animals.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #97
112. right
it wouldn't make any point in America because it wouldn't happen in America. Cruelty to animals is not openly condoned in America. (Of course it happens all the time, just like child abuse).

The point that I'm making is that we in this country are very sanctimonious and holier-than-thou about certain things, but we close our eyes to other forms of brutality. That dog in the gallery would have been snatched up and fed within about 5 minutes here in this country--and that would have been the right thing to do, absolutely. But is that something to be so proud about, as long as we allow all the other forms of brutality that go on in our midst and in our name? Are we really better than Costa Ricans?

All I'm saying is that there is a message here for all of us beyond the immediate outpouring of outrage towards this guy, who did at least give people the choice whether to save the dog or not. Presumably if somebody had rescued the dog he wouldn't have stopped them, but nobody did. He could have bypassed the dog on the street and somebody would've shoved it into a pit somewhere. But people need to talk about our tolerance to brutality of any kind and acceptance of it as long as we don't see it. That's a good thing.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. I wonder what would have happened if someone had feed the dog?
Was it just Jesus testing the faith?
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. My guess is
that would be OK and would become part of the story, and maybe the story would have had a happier ending that way (if the dog was not too far gone). But I doubt the artist would prevent someone from helping the dog. In most of the history of such provocative interactive exhibits, the whole point is to allow room for honest reactions as long as they don't harm anyone. The artist most likely wouldn't do anything to hurt the dog beyond pointing out his state of neglect. If he had, then he absolutely would be a torturer. I don't think that was his point. How many of us have walked by animals in inadequate zoo environments and never thought to do anything about it? Of course we should be outraged by this gallery "exhibit", but what other similar things should we be outraged by and actually do something about?

If the artist is guilty of cruelty, certainly the rest of the people who "obeyed orders" were equally complicit.

The subject here is complicity.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #118
133. Thanks so much for the most reasoned and intelligent posts on this thread
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #133
152. thanks,
thank you for your input too, such as the statistic of 600 million dogs increasing exponentially. I did not know that.

Although I don't agree with or condone what the guy did, I wish we could talk about it without all this
venting of bile and looking for scapegoats. I guess when a dog dies in the streets, nobody knows who to point the finger at. But whenever people can single out one person as a target, that person becomes the receptacle for all that pent-up frustration. Even when nothing is really known about him or his motive.

Whether we like the way it was done or not, the fact that these pictures found their way to countries that apparently do treat dogs better may spark some dialog about it in the home country. And while we may treat dogs better in this country, almost as children in many cases, do we treat other animals better in the US? Read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" about how we treat livestock--that's a real eye opener.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #118
189. Very reasoned response! nt
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #79
177. That's actually a bunch of shit...
We have a feral animal problem just like all nations on the planet, we just cover it up a little better, dogs, and cats, starve to death on our streets all the time. Yes, our various animal control organizations try to catch as many as they can, and, depending on area, either euthanize them or sterilize them and set them free. The only reason why we would have less animals starving is because we are a nation of excess who throws out tons of food every year, food that can support large feral populations.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #177
205. I don't think you & I disagree...
:shrug:

We may do a better of dealing with stray animals, but I agree it is more of a problem here than people realize. So it's very easy to castigate the Costa Ricans for their neglect, but a true comparison would turn up a lot of horror for animals here as well.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
64. Now we all are complicit for clicking and looking. Discuss.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:25 PM by librechik
(Puts on asbestos suit)
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
82. Complicity doesn't encompass knowledge after the fact.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 01:47 PM by baby_mouse
Complicity requires the active attention of an *accomplice* to a crime. One cannot be an accomplice to a crime being committed about which one knows nothing. From the supposition that one *can* proceeds the inescapable conclusion that everyone is complicit in the Holocaust because we've all seen photographs of concentration camps. Extending the definition of the word "complicity" to include cases of crimes past being observed by disinterested parties will succeed in rendering the term virtually meaningless, and little else.

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
68. Screw you, "artist" Guillermo Habacuc Vargas
I doubt the "point" you attempted to make would do little more than invoke outrage. It's not going to change the status of street dogs in your area. You could've made one hell of an experiment or "statement" by taking in a starving dog and helping him prosper.

Fuck you.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. This is a deeply sick man here.
I wonder...if I did something deeply sick to him in return, could I call it art?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
93. I would pay to see it, seawolf
Its the fact that this animal is innocent and dogs are such partners to people. he cannot explain his cruelty. He compounded cruelty with more. A better exhibit would have been feed the fucking dog!
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
155. AND what kind of Sick, sick "Society" would Permit this???!!!
I curse everyone who saw this dog and did nothing to change the situation.

Fuck all of them to hell.


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quadriga Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
75. Watching creatures starve to death is popular up here too
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
98. !!!!
:thumbsup:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
103.  600 million, the dog population is expected to double within 10 years.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
106. Many of these creatures appear close to death, or least far from health
One feature of living close to Balinese people is the daily crowing of roosters, warning the neighborhood that dawn is just a couple of hours away. Another feature is the sight of stray dogs that linger on most streets. Balinese people often name stray dogs and allow them to hang around as a semi-pet. Many of these creatures appear close to death, or least far from health. According to a report in the Herald Sun, local police are deliberately killing stray dogs using poison bait. The supposed reason for this is to clean up Balis image before the upcoming UNFCCC (UN Conference for Climate Change).


There is a popular bumper sticker that some expats display which says I love Bali dogs. There is even a program to help these homeless creatures maintain some level of health. It is fair comment though, to wonder what is the value of keeping these creatures alive. Do they add to the quality of life for most expats, or add to the holiday experience for tourists. Is the police action (if actually true) a good idea, or is it an attack on beautiful animals?

If you are like me then you believe animals belong in the country. Any animal in a city environment should be the responsibility of someone. One of the dangers of riding a motorbike in Bali is stray dogs darting out in front of you. One occasional sees the remains of a creature who didnt make it pass the rear wheels of a car. Most of the Bali dogs are just noisy rather than aggressive, but once in a while a tourist gets bitten. The sight of sick looking creatures, something westerns are not used to, definitely does not help Balis image.
http://www.baliblog.com/travel-tips/bali-dogs-lovable-c...
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
110. he couldn't just show pictures from the local pound of neglected critters?
sheez.... as the exhibit is, he just generates shock and outrage.

if he'd taken pictures of the poor pup as he found it and then instead made an exhibit of it's recovery, it would have still been a moving, shocking exhibit that brings attention to the plight of starvation on people and animals while also offering some hope and a message that we can DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN JUST WATCH.

as is, it's just sick.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. If the people were not affected
by the sight of the actual dog, would they be very sensitive to a documentary exhibit about it?

Another question--should you couch every disturbing thing with "a message of hope?" Maybe sometimes you need to see the raw and terrible to really face the state of things. Otherwise you run the risk of just feeling better yourself while the status quo remains. You can feel like it's being "taken care of," and you personally don't have to do anything.

We live very removed from the real in this world of images. Sometimes the real is worth a million images.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. if they were not affected by the sight of the actual dog,
they are sick shits who of course would not be affected by a documentary or just about anything else. I doubt anything could reach them.

now, anyone with a heart would easily be affected by images. those pictures just in the opening post disturbed me deeply.

and no, of course to be effective you can't make a documentary that's completely warm and fuzzy in the end, you need a message of action and activism.
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2peaches2 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
111. What the F%$#@ is this crap.....
there should be a HUGE warning that if you look at these pictures you are going to vomit your Easter dinner all over your keyboard.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
113. We consumers are as much to blame about this as this alleged artist is.
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #113
117. No.
No. You are as much to blame because you agree with the idea of using a defenseless, suffering animal to be used as a "visual aid" in making a point, rather than even attempting to help the animal.

Let's go through this again: Animals are not "things" to be used as a canvas for your or anyone else's ideas about the state of the world. If your ideas are to stand or fall, please let them do so without bringing a suffering animal into the picture.

As a consumer of whatever I must buy, and that includes food for animals, I have absolutely nothing to do with the death of this dog. No. That dubious honor goes to the artist and I will not name him nor will I share in the responsibility for the death of that poor animal. I mourn that this was the way that he passed away; unhelped by the human to whom he hopefully and trustingly reached out.


Despite your insistence that we are all like the people who visited the "gallery" and that being so reflects why there are awful problems somewhere in the world, you are wrong.

I think it should be abundantly clear by now that there are awful problems in this world because there are awful people.

What is the rationale here? "Oh, just one mangy old dog won't matter. Maybe it'll wake people up" ??? Is that it?

The question needs to be asked: Is this simply a classroom exercise?


horseshoecrab

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
160. Please don't put words in my mouth
I NEVER used the word mangy, NONE of the people who went to see the dog FEED him, even though they could have at ANY time. I am not FOR what he did



AND I AM CETAINLY NOT TO BLAME FOR THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF UNWANTED ANIMALS
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #160
176. Yet you feel that this one dog was destined to die
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 12:32 AM by horseshoecrab
You didn't have to use the word mangy. You have clearly stated that this dog was destined to die, which of course, thanks to the "artist" it most definitely was. I don't have to put words in your mouth and have asked you what the rationale was for doing such an awful thing. Was it that this was simply a mangy dog who didn't matter and so could be used to make some point for the "artist"??? For you??? For the "artist's" cause? For yours?

The people who did not feed him were told not to feed him and not to untie him. I'm sure they must have thought that the dog was sick and therefore didn't do so. The analogy to the "good German" simply isn't there because it has not been shown.

What you don't understand is that you are talking to someone who, like others on this thread, has devoted significant time to the rescue and care of animals in peril. The people in this story were, in fact, tricked into not helping the dog.

This whole thread has been a series of posts attempting to lecture people about how awful they are.
What this story is, when all is said and done, is the story of one deranged man using a helpless, suffering, dying animal as a gallery display after he chose not to save it. There is absolutely, no way to rationalize that away as reasonable behavior. He became the cruelty which he feigned being against.

If you are all about saving the lives of wandering, abandoned or feral animals then learn to respect the people whom you are attempting to convince. Accusing people of being too stupid to "get it" is not the way to bring attention to the plight of animals starving in the streets due to overpopulation.

That's about it from here.

horseshoecrab

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #176
186. YOU ARE THE ONE THAT USE THE WORD MANGY
NOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE DOG WAS GOING TO DIE LIKE MILLIONS DO EVERY DAY FROM STARVATION
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #176
187. The people who did not feed him were told not to feed him and not to untie him
HOW WONDERFUL OF THEM TO FOLLOW ORDERS
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #176
188. GOOD GERMAN
THAT'S EXACTLLY WHAT THEY WERE JUST LIKE MOST AMERICANS TODAY
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
114. all the attendees to the exhibit were simply following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #114
130. No they were not "following orders"
The attendees were listening to the apparent owner of the dog. There are a number of circumstances which would require that a sick animal only be fed special diets at particular times.

The attendees were not told that this sick ba$t@rd was going to allow this starving dog to die to prove a point (because, by the way, he himself was BEREFT of artistic talent). If they had been, believe me, someone would have tried to feed the poor animal.

Trying to draw a parallel with Nazi Germany, and those who follow blindly, is baloney. Unbelievable and unbelievably simplistic thinking.

horseshoecrab

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. Nobody apparently questioned the artist enough,
or questioned his sanity -- which was very stupid. In this country he would have been arrested, if somebody didn't rescue the dog immediately, which is likely what would have happened. The complicit behavior that apparently occurred illustrates a collective brutality towards animals that is related to brutality towards people.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
120. that's not art, that's cruelty.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
122. Art?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 03:37 PM by fujiyama
:wtf:

I have seen starving dogs in developing countries, but those were strays and it was awful, but an "art exhibit"? This is fucking deranged.
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Rubiconski2009 Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
125. ANIMAL CRUELTY AS ENTERTAINMENT?
This so-called "artist" and his zombie gallery goers make me SICK!!!!

I hope this goes viral and they get buried under a ton of hate mail!!

Wake up activists those dogs need our help!!!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #125
131. where did you get the idea it was intended as entertainment?
?!? I don't think so.

"Zombie gallery goers" is right on it...but what made them that way?

And how many people in this country would rush to help the dog but think it's fine to torture a few Iraqis. And what about the torture of our own citizens under the policies of Boosh? Is our country any better because we hide our brutality? (Not referring to we "bleeding heart liberals" here at DU but the collective "we")
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
137. Damned sociopath
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:08 PM by MissDeeds
I'd like to tie him up and let him starve to death, along with all those who knew this was taking place and did nothing to stop it. You know, for the sake of "art".
:sarcasm:


Certainly that's something he could appreciate.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
138. I'd gather a bunch of people and go and feed the dog
And if the "artist" tried to intervene - we'd beat the crap out of him.

This was gratuitous cruelty aganst an animal - cold, calculated. The perpetrator should suffer no less, as far as I'm concerned.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
145. What is wrong with people in Costa Rica? This would never happen in the US.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 09:02 PM by McCamy Taylor
I have known people from other countries who complain that the individualism which is so highly prized in the United States is a destructive force and keeps us from becoming a more kind, loving, cooperative country. But I can tell you one thing about the US. There would have been at least one person on the opening day who would have said "Fuck you!" to the artist and the guards and who would cut the rope and freed the dog and taken it home and fed it.

To hell with authority! To hell with the rules. If I had been visiting Costa Rica and I had seen that atrocity, I would have fed that dog, even if they had tried to arrest me. Some things just are not right!
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ruiner4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #145
149. We have the ASPCA and animal cruelty laws in the US.
So thankfully that twisted 'artist' would have landed in jail in this country...


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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #145
158. thank you, McCamy
I agree wholeheartedly with you.

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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #145
170. myopic don't you think
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:43 PM by Djinn
you condone plenty of legal animal cruelty, it's just to chickens, cattle, pigs, rats, rabbits etc You also condone plenty of human cruelty (Gitmo being an obvious example but there are thousands more)

To hell with authority and rules? can we assume you have several arrests for freeing battery hens and have recently attempted to storm Guantanamo?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #145
241. in costa rica a sick person would never be turned away from an ER for lack of an insurance card
i'm sad about the dog, it's really shitty, but at the end of the day, for people in the united states, where millions of people cannot get decent health care, to sit there and pretend to have any moral high ground vis a vis costa rica, it's a fucking joke -- they provide public health care to all human beings and as a consequence have a higher life expectancy than we do in the usa

stray dogs should be put down humanely and quickly, they should not be starved to death on public display, but whooty hoot we have better animal control officers than costa rica, well don't that make your mama proud? i bet if they had to "pick one" they would prefer having the health care for humans and the longer life span, ya think?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
146. Human nature in Costa Rica can not be so different from here. I wonder if
people saw a sickly dog in a gallery and assumed that it was being cared for but was extremely ill and the admonition not to release it or feed it was actually for the dog's benefit==i.e so it would not wander off in its sickly condition.

In other words, I wonder if the artist punked the gallery visitors, and they walked through not knowing what he was doing. Because it would be normal to assume that a dog tied up inside a gallery was someone's beloved pet. No one would ever expect an artist to be a sadistic murderer.

So, i think that that artist's "art" is a scam. It was not a group participation. The people had no idea what was going on, For all they knew the dog was dying of cancer was loved.

The artist knew that by doing this he could get famous--get on the internet.

Artists all want to get famous nowadays. They rely upon cheap tricks when they have no real talent.

This artist is a poseur, a pretender, a hack. He will never be Diego Rivera or Matisse and so he has become a dog murderer and a sadist who has tried to spoil art for the people who visited that gallery by making them complicit in his crime.

He is worse than dog food. Dog food has a purpose. He has only a bottomless need to fill the void of his ego.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
148. What a dirty rotten to the core son of a bitch. I hope his prick rots off!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
150. Is there a DUzy for dumbest thread of the week
Reading the responses in this thread made me manifestly dumber.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #150
154. I am utterly sickened. I am so fucking utterly sickened.
These kinds of things keep me away from here.

I am so fucking utterly sickened.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #154
192. Still sickened.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
159. Excuse me while I go hug my puppy
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
167. I am so sorry and sickened that I read this-I tried to ignore the title but then I had to know ...
Yikes..I can't help it -I have a very visceral, uncontrollable reaction to this and I am sorry I CANNOT appreciate this art or find a justfication for such deliberate cruelty that was allowed to proceed in the name of art...
That is terrible.. I am REALLY sorry I read this..
My own fault (I saw the graphic in the title)-so it is my own fault..But God that is TERRIBLE..That poor dog..
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
168. It is BOTH inexcusably terrible AND a profound work of art. He and society are BOTH responsible.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 11:43 PM by FreepFryer
Just as the witnesses who obeyed and let the dog die are the point of the exhibit, so will be the reaction (or lack thereof).

It will be insightful to watch to what degree (and which of) the parties believed responsible are held accountable.

Yes, it's unforgivable cruelty. And in a world of unforgiveable cruelty, when an artist chooses to use cruelty as his brush, he too is ultimately to be held accountable.

While this is completely subjective, I wonder if he decided to commit this heinous act, in order to involve the public in the commission of this heinous act, in order to focus public consideration on the public responsibility for the heinous acts of poverty.


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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #168
190. Well said! nt
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #168
206. He killed a dog
No amount of socio-political bullshit erases that.

The only thing worse is publicizing it, and no, it has nothing to do with 'larger issues'. The fucker killed a dog, and I hope there's a hell so he can spend eternity having starving dogs rip his entrails out.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
169. this is art i simply don't "get," to say the least
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
173. This pisses me off beyond belief.
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 12:05 AM by Fox Mulder
Maybe we should take Mr. Vargas, starve him, and tie him in a gallery so people can look at him and instruct them not to feed him. How would he like that?

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

Edited to add that the assholes who stood by and watched this poor dog are no better than Vargas.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
174. My first inclination is to say that that man needs to die.
Not out of any sense of revenge, or anything, but simple pragmatism: he's clearly a very sick man, and is dangerous to others. If he can do something that incredibly cruel to an innocent dog in full public view, what's he capable of behind closed doors?

Reminder, folks: cruelty to animals is considered a warning sign for sociopathic behavior and even serial murder, because people tend to behave towards animals they way they would behave towards humans if not restrained by law.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
178. gotta love how people freak out MORE about animals than people n/t
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Sock Puppet Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #178
194. shut up.
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #178
197. Have there been any children tied up to starve on exhibition as an art-piece?
Then what the fuck are you talking about? :eyes:
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #178
202. You think someone who treats an animal like that would treat people decently?
Usually people who are cruel to animals are cruel to people when they get the chance. It's said that George Bush enjoyed blowing up frogs as a kid.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #178
217. Uh-huh
That's right, people can only be outraged by ONE thing at a time.

This thread is seriously making me reconsider my refusal to use the ignore button.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #178
223. And this piece of ignorance is based on what, exactly?
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
180. A reason to be suspicious of art and artists.
I know, a lot of you have all kinds of liberal arts training to believe that art is automatically good, and therefore artists always deserve respect. But you probably never understood what art really is.

Art is imposing a formal order upon existence.

The act of creating art is morally neutral. Any moral nature it has depends on the individual artist. There were people in Nazi Germany that created lamp shades out of the skin of murdered Jews. It was hideous. It was inhuman. But you could not claim that those creations weren't art.

I think most of the posts in this thread came from a lot of you people suddenly realizing that art is not always representative of the good. Congratulations. You've taken one more step towards understanding the world.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
182. UNACCEPTABLE!!! what a piece of shit he is, FUCKER!!
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
183. Nauseating.
I have an idea for performance art. How about someone take this "Artist", cover him in gravy and tie him up in a room of starving street dogs.

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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #183
184. Now THAT is an art exhibit I'd pay to see
I think that as far as performance art goes, watching this "artist" screaming bloody murder while being devoured by starving street dogs would be far, far more effective in showing the plight of these animals.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
191. Here's a great idea for conceptional art....
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 06:50 AM by Jeffersons Ghost
Let's machine-gun Vargas, the artist, to death!
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #191
204. Better yet, let's hang him by his nuts and let him starve to death.
Fucking asshole piece of shit.
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
193. What the fuck is wrong with people?
when I watch documentaries in which an animal dies, I am hurt, but I understand the necessity to not interfere with nature. THIS however is plain evil. Every ONE of those gallery viewers and everyone involved with this exhibition is guilty of letting this dog die. EVERY SINGLE one of them.

That poor dog. :cry: :mad:
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Sheets of Easter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
198. If you want to run a Milgram experiment, use a willing participant.
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 10:18 AM by King Sandbox
Not a creature who doesn't know any better.

As for the cries of "manufactured outrage" I'm seeing in this thread- FUCK YOU! How dare you assume that one cannot be angered and concerned by more than one thing at a time. I place value on all life- human and animal. Letting a non-consenting party starve to death in the name of human behavioral study is as cruel and sick as any war crime, murder, rape, etc.

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
199. Sick fuck.
...I hope he gets charged...
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
203. Jesus effin' Christ....
That is absolutely fucking wrong on so many levels. Not only is the artist fucked up, but people are fucked up for going to see this exhibit and not doing anything about it.

This is art?

This is cruelty to animals.
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
207. And no one stepped in to
help this dog? No one helps the dogs that die in the street? And these people call themselves civilized? Is it any wonder why I hate people?
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
210. The man belongs in jail
and the people who obeyed the orders not to feed the dog deserve no better.
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citygal Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
211. Where do I start?
This is clearly not art. I think this artist needs to be imprisoned and starved for a while. See how artistic that is.

And I cannot BELIEVE these people walked by and did nothing. How could you not want to reach out and help that poor animal? People are so freaking stupid. I cannot believe what they allow happen to the innocents.

This absolutely IS illegal in the US and considered cruelty to animals, when caught.

And I speak from experience. My family has been volunteering for the humane society since I was four years old.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
213. Poor little fella. What a jerk that "artist" is. n/t
n/t
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
216. Without "P" GD is the Lounge?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #216
222. Animal cruelty as entertainment is a "light" subject to you, is it?
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #216
229. clearly the boundaries of art, cruelty, animal rights are really friviolous subjects
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
224. If you think pics of "perrito" aren't art, is this pic art? ------>
It seems that the majority of people responding to this thread don't think that this picture is art:



If not, do you think that the picture below is art? It was taken by South African photojournalist Kevin Carter. Carter was a member of an informal group of recklessly brave photojournalists known as the "bang bang club" for their willingness to get to the front lines of political violence to take pictures. (I had a friend who was not a member of the club, but in the same business around the same time, and after spending a few days with him, I understand why they had a reputation for being insane.)

Carter focused on political violence in South Africa, where he is said to be the first photographer to photograph a "necklacing" -- the execution by radicals of a "collaborator" by burning with tires and gasoline.

Exhausted and depressed by South Africa, Carter took a trip to the Sudan to photograph a famine, where he made his most famous photograph -- a picture of a little girl, overcome with hunger on the way to a feeding station, being stalked by a vulture:



After taking the picture, Carter sat under a tree chain smoking cigarettes and crying.

The picture became a world wide sensation after it was published in the U.S., but Cater was also criticized for not saving the girl. (It is said she did revive enough to get to the feeding station.)

Carter won the Pulitzer Prize for photography in May 1994 for this picture.

By July 1994, Carter was dead, at age 33. He committed suicide blaming money problems, the images he could not get out of his head, and sadness over the death of a friend and fellow photographer, Ken Oosterbroek, who was shot to death in Tokoza Township, while standing just a few feet from Carter:

"I am depressed ... without phone ... money for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!! ... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of killer executioners...I have gone to join Ken if I am that lucky."

So is it art?
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #224
233. The photograph is art; the lack of any attempt to help the girl isn't.
Did Carter at least shoo away the vulture, or had he so successfully divorced himself from the suffering around him that the girl was no longer a human but merely an object? I would have trouble faulting him for not making the choice to help her if he was so numbed by death at that point but that doesn't make it the right choice.

It's sad that this ate away at him so much that it contributed to his suicide desire but perhaps that is the best indication of his own ambivalence about using the dying for art.


"perrito" didn't just put the dog on display, he tethered the poor thing. Perhaps for his next performance piece he'll stand next to the dying dog and kick it.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
227. i should beat him up in a museum and call it fucking art.
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 03:54 PM by lionesspriyanka
this reminds me of the stanley milgram experiment. apparantly people will obey authority no matter how clearly wrong
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #227
230. That's why we go to work every day.
and tolerate seeing homeless people on the streets.

and don't shutdown bush's war.

I believe this was the point of the art piece.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #227
236. Disgusting
This is not art, it's sociopathy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
232. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
238. I thought I couldn't get any angrier after the collapse of that Antarctic ice sheet...
...but dammit, this did it. THIS IS NOT ART. This is murder by neglect.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
242. Can we tie up the artist now?
Let him be the piece?
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