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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:37 PM
Original message
Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc.
Like many other members of DU, I've participated in historic movements in my 4+ decades of political life.

I've literally put my life on the line for the advancement of basic Constitutionally protected rights for all citizens-when younger I confronted and fought against the extreme RW and their corrupt allies in places like Milwaukee, Madison, Chicago, Skokie, Minneapolis.

I've been shot at, beaten, jailed, put on various "lists" and economically harmed as a direct result of my political participation in various movements since 1965. I've walked the walk and experienced the reaction of opposition, some of the reactions so extreme as to make the simple truth about my political activism during the past 43 years sound like fiction-yet it is absolutely true.

At every point during my personal experiences the Democratic Party and Democratic politicians were also involved in the movement for the advancement and expansion of basic rights for all.

Most of the policies that supported that advancement had been the work of Democrats like FDR, Truman, JFK, RFK, Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern and many other Democrats nationally and regionally.

Volunteerism, financial contribution and, most of all, casting votes and organizing campaigning for other votes for these Democrats came from citizens like me that didn't belong to any political party.

I'm still not a member of any political party because I value the conceptual framework and philosophies of democracy embedded in our Constitution and Bill of Rights expressed as the rule of law by, for and of we, the people, first and foremost. That is democracy.

I'm not a starry-eyed idealist when it comes to that-I'm profoundly aware of the sacrifices made over the centuries to preserve, protect and defend what the criminals and traitors in the current installed administration have called "a Goddamn piece of paper" (which they have incrementally, secretively and corruptly been replacing with their own traitorous agendas since being installed in office).

That's enough about me and where I'm at politically. I'm beyond anger and frustration that when I "sent a message" by voting a straight Democratic ticket in Wisconsin in the 2006 midterm GE based on the promises of a "change in direction" that new leadership, Democratic leadership, would bring has resulted in very little outside of the feeling that the message has been ignored in Washington by the new leadership.

I'm beyond anger and frustration that the potential Democratic candidates for POTUS have dropped from 8 to 2 largely due to power struggles within the Democratic Party. I still voted for my choice in the Wisconsin primary a few weeks ago, one of the original 8 Democrats.

I've been taking a serious look at the composition and history of the factions involved in this internal power struggle of the Democratic Party in an attempt to understand why the leadership has been ignoring the many continuing urgent messages sent by the people that voted for them in 2006.

The balance of this OP are links about the powerful centrist/right factions in the Democratic Party that were founded in the 1980's around what is called the third way-factions that severed most connections with traditional Democratic support nationally with the goal of getting its membership into the Executive Branch.

It was confusing to me, at first, to read about organizations that use words like progressive, democratic or liberal in their titles-yet were funded and founded by individuals and organizations generally associated with opposition to such meanings in the context of political affiliation.

I want to share what I've been learning about the New Democrats, the Democratic Leadership Council and its think tank, the Progressive Policy Institute and some of their allies. The links below are for those of you that also would like to learn more.

I'm linking them without comment. I'd really like to hear what you have to say about all this.

Third Way Foundation (Source Watch page)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Third_Way_Fo...

Will Marshall profile from Right Web
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295.html

Democratic Leadership Council/DLC page from Source Watch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Democratic_L...

DLC profile from Right Web
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463.html

"How the DLC Does It" by Robert Dreyfuss (American Prospect 4-22-2001)
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=4706

Progressive Policy Institute/PPI (the DLC's main think tank) links

PPI Source Watch page
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Progressive_...

PPI profile from Right Web
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1534.html

Grants to support PPI (from Media Transparency)
http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipientgrants.php?re...

That's enough for this OP. I'd like to hear about some of the other organizations and individuals associated with the New Democrats from you-I'm still learning about Al From, Lewis Cullman, Andy and Deborah Rappaport, The New America Foundation, New Democrat Network, Dewey Square Group, etc.

I'll add a bit about them later.


















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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. You've got a lot of friends on this board
among those of us who have done our homework. The Reagan Revolution couldn't have happened without the support of the extremely well organized and well funded conservative Democrats of various designations. Nor could Stupid have gutted the Bill of Rights without their support.

Conservatives in both parties brought us to where we are right now and it isn't pretty. Conservatives are the root cause of all our current problems because of their faulty world view, especially in the areas of foreign policy and economics.

They can never be part of the solution unless they are able to reject years and years of dogma and conditioning.

(I voted for my choice, too, even though he was forced out three days earlier)
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Specifically neoconservatives as of late...

I have a feeling that fiscal conservatives are starting to wake up to the stupidity and expense of waging neverending war.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. Yep. Anyone notice their silence regarding stolen elections in 2000 & 2004:
I am convinced that the failure of the DLC to acknowledge Gore's win in 2000 (in fact they blame his "loss" on breaking with the DLC and becoming a populist-i'll post a link below) and their active role in keeping Kerry from challenging Ohio in 2004(thanks to Clinton ally James Carville (also posted below) was calculated as to allow a HRC run in '08. If either would have taken the office they won, then HRC and her corporate cronies would not have had a chance in 2008. Also look how they try to undermine Howard Dean. Anyway, here are some links:

FIRST..GORE BROKE WITH THE DLC TO BECOME A POPULIST:

Published on Sunday, August 20. 2000 in the Boston Globe
Thank You, Al Gore
by Robert Kuttner
A funny thing happened to Al Gore on the way to his surprisingly effective acceptance speech. He became a liberal.

The speech was as liberal as anything FDR or LBJ or Jesse Jackson or one of the Kennedys might have delivered. It was built around a commitment to fight for ordinary people, against large and powerful interests. This, of course, is precisely what made it effective.

The emotional heart of the speech, Gore's honoring of four ordinary American lives, did not just salute the struggles of workaday families, the way Ronald Reagan often did. It identified who was dishonoring their struggles - corporations. He singled out heartless HMOs who pressure a family to sacrifice a child; drug companies that force a pensioner to choose between food and medicine; corporate polluters; corporations that pay workers inadequate wages.

And he identified the solution: strong, reliable public Social Security; better Medicare; welfare reform that rewards work rather than punishing the needy; higher minimum wages; and more investment in public - not voucher - schools, so that working families don't have to send kids to crumbling classrooms.

What is the evil? Corporate power. What is the remedy? Effective government.

-snip
http://www.commondreams.org/views/082000-105.htm

SECOND, AFTER GORE'S WIN THEY BLAME HIS 'LOSS' ON BREAKING WITH THE DLC:

Strange Theory on Why Gore Lost



The so-called Democratic Leadership Council has decided that Al Gore should have acted more like a Republican in order to win the 2000 presidential electoral college vote in addition to his nationwide popular vote victory. This strange finding has drawn some attention, including coverage by the Associated Press and the Environmental News Service -- we have a few excerpts from their reports for you here.
Al Gore, the self-styled environmental candidate in the 2000 Presidential election, lost his bid for the White House because he campaigned on an outdated "populist" platform that was too liberal for most Americans, according to a new report drafted by the Democratic Leadership Council.

The 40-page report, titled "Why Gore Lost, And How Democrats Can Come Back," concludes that the Democratic Party must move towards the political right -- towards the Republicans -- if it wants to regain control of Congress in 2002 and the White House in 2004.

Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would "fight for the people and not the powerful" as the nation's first president of the 21st Century.

-snip

http://www.progress.org/goredlc2.htm

AND FINALLY, CLINTON ALLY JAMES CARVILLE'S ROLE IN THE QUICK KERRY CONCESSION:

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...

RESEARCH THIS FOR YOURSELVES, BEFORE YOU CAST A VOTE FOR ANY DLC CANDIDATE!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
64. Great post . . . but, may I please add this to our consciousness . . .
Marshall helped establish the DLC in the wake of Walter Mondale's landslide defeat. The DLC has aimed to create a "New Democrat" movement to shift the party toward the center-right on domestic, economic, and foreign policy issues.

I read over and over again here that Democrats think that they, their party and their candidates failed --- rather, I'd just like to point out that we haven't had STEALS simply since 2000 ---
No -- that was only the noisiest of the steals.

The computers came in during the mid-1960's . . . and we've had steals since then.

PLEASE, PLEASE read something of Jim & Ken Collier's investigation into computer steals -
They were two journalists looking for a story and decided that one of them should run for office in Florida. As their votes were being reported they noticed something odd and in tracking it they
uncovered the computer thefts that we are still talking about now.

They had a contract with a major publisher, but by the time the book was published it was immediately
suppressed. You can read or scan that book at the website which their family keeps going:

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

BUT the important thing to realize is that Democrats in some ways believe that THEY lost these
elections!!! Not necessarily --- !!!

PLUS, when you factor in the political violence we've had for decades --- totally unacknowledged by our CIA/FBI controlled media -- it looks more like we've had an "Operation Gladio" also going on in America --- !!!



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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
122. Thanks for this information. It is new to me. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
97. "Carville told her he had some inside news..." Who's "her?"
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. his wife...Mary Matalin
that's who.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #39
106. You learn something here everyday-thanks mod mom.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
146. "Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 05:32 PM by bobthedrummer
Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would 'FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE AND NOT THE POWERFUL' as the nation's first President of the 21st Century."

Hope you don't mind my shouting out that treasonous Al From quote linked in your post, mod mom.

It wasn't a "tactical mistake", it wasn't Ralph Nader-it was a RW COUP aided and abetted by RW in The Democratic Party, that has gone along with this installed treasonous administration at every given point of their shared RW agenda.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
156. George Walker Bush's criminal, treasonous administration was installed, a "bloodless coup" that
is swimming in blood today, mostly innocent blood of the victims of it's crimes against humanity
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. This should be mandatory reading for all Dems.
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 05:54 PM by Breeze54
Thanks for posting this and I hope you're cross posting it in GD-P!

:kick: & Recommended
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Absolutely! nt
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
138. For everyone of us that comprises the base of Democratic voters
it needs to be kicked every now and then.

I'm not going to vote for the RW in the Democratic Party ever again due to ignorance and lies.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R! Read This!!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let me put it simply: I HATE THE DLC!
:grr:
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
43. I couldn't have said it any clearer.
What is deeply wrong w/ the Democratic Party today - reliance on corporate campaign funds, alienation of the working class, women, minorities can be directly traced to the dlc. I hate the dlc because they want a democratic party that doesn't include me as a member of the party.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. moi aussi n/t
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
59. SO DO I ......I hate to scream but in this case it's necessary.......n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
123. I hope that my loathing of the DLC is quite clear, as well as my support of everything and everyone
they threw overboard in their treachery.
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the insight, man (or woman)!
I'm curious on your opinion on why the Democratic party has shifted rightwards the past couple decades.. Fear of the religious right eradicating them? Authoritarian democratic leaders?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
56. I'm the guy described in my profile. The fact is that the DLC deliberately cut links to traditional
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 03:01 PM by bobthedrummer
base support, as all the links state.

This was done by design, and the involvement of neoconservatives, their policies and their allies was there right from the beginning.

So were many former members of President Clinton's administration.

Those are facts, not my opinion-an opinion, btw, which tends to that of a extreme RW coup occurred in November 2000 that installed George W. Bush et al. into the office of POTUS.

THAT'S NOT JUST MY OPINION ANYMORE.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. k&r ..nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. And you have partners here, bob....you always will.
I salute you.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bookmarking to read. Thank you, bobthedrummer,
for being willing to fight for our country. That's part of what makes me so angry when I hear about this "new" move to the right. At this point, there's nothing new about it. I think of the quote from the neocons about how they'd just become the neoliberals. It seems to me that is what has happened.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. The DLC is more insidious and treacherous than the Republicans.
The DLC has successfully torpedoed any opposition to the Bush administration from inside the Democratic Party.

The DLC helped seat Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court. (SEE: Gang of 14)



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.




"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone




Obama claims to have no relationship with the DLC, and for that he will get my reluctant vote as the Lesser of two Corporate Centrist Evils.
I would rather take a chance on Obama than accept the sure thing of a Hillary DLC administration!

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. That was my final resolution to that conundrum too.
I went for the unknown over the DLC known.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. Myself as well... I WILL NOT OBEY!


Though I supported other candidates earlier that were more clear in their progressive viewpoints than Obama is now, at least Obama is not demonstrably part of this insidious cancer of the Democratic Party that Hillary is known to be.

America, when it chose FDR, had many choices that were farther to the left than he was in those days (those that were more closer to the Communist Party and the like). America went for him and got a decent bargain in the process of someone that still would take risks in making things like the New Deal upon getting elected and get America back on its feet again after being nearly destroyed by the first Republican depression. We are on the verge of the second Republican Depression if not already at the early stages of it again. We need someone that's going to take a new "New Deal" approach again to make some fundamental changes to our system to correct for all of the damage that's been done over the last 20-30 years!

Obama-Wan is our only hope I think... Hoping that he turns out to be the FDR we need today!

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
130. I'm seriously facing that decision-and I have serious concerns that the GE might be "delayed" by
world events
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm with you 110% Bob! K&R nt
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent post.
Thank you for the links and information.

:kick:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
147. Thank you, share with those you care about. n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you and some additional info...
DLC Ties to PNAC (Project for a New American Century ie the neocons)
posted by mod mom

snip...

"Al From is founder and chief executive officer of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), a dynamic idea action center of the "Third Way" governing philosophy that is reshaping progressive politics in the United States and around the globe. He is also chairman of the Third Way Foundation and publisher of the DLC's flagship bi-monthly magazine, Blueprint: Ideas for a New Century..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


---AND---


FISA ....Telecom Group Key Player in Immunity Battle

"A think tank with close ties to the telecommunication industry has been working with a key Democrat in the Senate on a domestic surveillance bill that would provide telecommunications companies with retroactive immunity for possibly violating federal law by spying on American citizens at the behest of the Bush administration...

During the crafting of the Intelligence Committee bill, Bennett met with a frequent contact of his, Clete Johnson, Rockefeller's legislative aide for military and national security issues, to discuss the FISA legislation. At the meeting, Bennett advised Johnson on talking points to help make the case for telecom immunity...

Twelve Democrats broke with their party and joined Republicans by voting against the Senate Judiciary version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act legislation on Thursday, January 24. The bill would have stripped out the retroactive immunity for telecoms..."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I'm all too familiar with the effects of privatization pioneered by Tommy Thompson in Wisconsin
during his criminal administration as Governor. His financial backing came from extreme RW sources like The Bradley Foundation.

PNAC received start-up funding from the Milwaukee-based Bradley Foundation.

As I posted in the OP, the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute/PPI think tank was supported by The Bradley Foundation 2000-2002.

"Grants to support PPI" (Media Transparency)
http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipientgrants.php?re...

The Bradley Foundation profile from Right Web
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1441.html

I thank you for mentioning FISA and the many connections of telecoms with DLC members. I hope to post a bit about that this weekend.

I encourage others to post what they have about these New Democrats-it reminds me of what happened to the Labour Party in the UK when they became New Labour.

Speaking of New, here are a couple more links about these New organizations that have abandoned the traditional base and interests of the Democratic Party (people like you and I).

New Democrat Network page from Source Watch (they changed their name to NDN-dropped Democrat entirely, same people though)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=New_Democrat...

New America Foundation also from Source Watch (note the Leadership section-many DLC supporters in it)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=New_America_...
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Following all these organizations could be a full time job :) ...
but it does help to explain why the Democrats vote the way they do sometimes and we need to be aware of them.

From one of your links.

How the DLC Does It
Robert Dreyfuss | April 22, 2001

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=4706


"...The DLC's effort to win Meeks's vote was part of a vigorous campaign by New Democrats to assure legislators that business groups would replace campaign contributions from labor lost by a pro-business China vote. In The New Democrat, the DLC's monthly magazine, Washington's most powerful business lobbyist, Thomas J. Donohue of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, wrote that even though some members of Congress risked losing the AFL-CIO's support, "business will stick by Democrats on the China trade vote."

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."


Just adding links for the groups you mentioned above.

http://www.ndn.org /

http://www.newpolitics.net /


You're welcome for the mention of FISA and the involvement from Third Way, looking forward to your post.


http://dispatch.thirdway.org/articles/2008/02/08/to-our...

"To Our Friends and Critics on the Issue of Telecom ImmunityPosted by Matt Bennett, Vice President for Public Affairs 29 days ago

Think back for a moment to the days after 9-11, to the range of emotions we all felt: horror, sadness, anger, frustration. But we felt other things as well: determination and patriotism. We were resolved as a nation that no band of two-bit thugs was going to attack this country and murder Americans without us damn well doing something about it.

Now, imagine that you were specifically asked to do something about it and were told that your actions would hold the lives of innocent Americans in the balance. Imagine that you were Mary Smith, a senior executive of a telephone company and that an FBI agent came to you with a letter that asked for your help in tracking down terrorists. The letter assured you that the President and the Attorney General certified that what they were asking you to do was legal. Imagine that the FBI made it clear that if you failed to cooperate, Americans could die.

What would you do? Do you assist the government based on their representations that the help was both legal and urgently needed, or do you decline and risk the consequences?

Not everyone would have made the same decision, but we would submit that, given the circumstances in the wake of 9-11, many Americans would have agreed to help..."



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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
52. speaking of FISA -- see my previous post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Charles Black is listed as a lobbyist on the report.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
55. A crosspost about the history of extreme RW Wisconsin alliances
"'Neoconservatism' and how Wisconsinites worked alliances" (posted 8-15-2007)-some of these same groups and individuals support the Democratic Leadership Council and DLC policies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
100. The last link is a list of many supporting the Public Broadcast System no?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. Yes, along with corporations like Boeing-have a go at researching each foundation's history
someday and you'll be a conspiracy realist, because the BFEE isn't a theoretical construct anymore-is it?

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #101
104. Sorry long getting back. Read every link! My eyes! Need drops!
BFEE never was a theoretical concept for me. I pay close attention to all of Octafish's posts. :evilgrin: I plan on looking into each foundation's history. Have bookmarked this thread and will be back! Thanks again Bob the Drummer!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. So, now you know.
You took the red pill and now you get to see just how far down the rabbit hole really goes.

I am a Democrat (raised by my union grandparents to be so)so I may feel a bit more personal hurt than you do with this. They stole my party right out from under me. My party has the same label and some of the same faces but it is now firmly run by the DLC and my heart is broken and has been since I got my education some 4 years ago. I'm still registered Democrat because in our corrupt two party system, they are the lesser evil, but not by much. And make no mistake, somehow they have become the backbone (or, ironically, the lack of spine) of my Party and have done a really good job fucking it up from within, so much so, that I don't recognize it. Last year, I wanted to stay and try to fix it from within. This year, I just don't know. Had Edwards stayed in or had the now reformed ex DLCer, Al Gore gotten into the race, I would have believed it possible to actually wrest control back from these DINOs. HRC is a card carrying member and in the end, even though I liked some of what she said better than the non-card but water carrying DLCer, BHO, I went for him, but I doubt that much change will happen for if he gets the nomination, it will only be if the kingmakers deem it so. I still believe they will use the superdelegates to put into place the DLC candidate from the beginning - HRC.

If we get HRC, reform from within is really not going to happen. It won't be an eight year descent into madness that this administration has been, but it won't be progressive, even if we hold their feet to the fire. I suspect the same will be able to be said of a BHO administration.

Here's the part where I tell you my wonderful solution for this awful dilemma, alas, I'm flummoxed and more than a little depressed which happens to be an endless spiral that rarely leads to magnificent solutions.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. KR&B. The underbelly is rather seamy, isn't it? n/t
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. Bookmarking for future reference.
This is a good compilation of data.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. K&R
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. Although you did not mention it in your OP
I believe it should be stressed that Hillary Clinton is and has been a member of the DLC.

Recommend.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
53. Hillary has a leadership position in the DLC n/t
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texshelters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. I agree
Thanks for sharing your story. People such as yourself have kept this country livable against big odds. Lots of people agree with you and your point. I hope it is the nadir of cycle of political power and the US citizenry take the power back in my lifetime.

Tex
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watrwefitinfor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. ..
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. Democratic neocons
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 07:43 AM by leftofthedial
Third Way is funded by the Bradley Foundation. What more do we need to know?

Their mission is "...to return the U.S. -- and the world -- to the days before governments began to regulate Big Business, before corporations were forced to make concessions to an organized labor force. In other words, laissez-faire capitalism: capitalism with the gloves off."

They promote "...welfare 'reform' and attempts to privatize public education through the promotion of school vouchers...."


Thanks for the links. THESE are the bad guys.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
25. It's far more nefarious a group than most of us care to imagine.
I'm no scholar in this area and I do not profess to harbor any extraordinary intelligence regarding the workings of the DLC et al.....however, I ask my self these rhetorical questions:

If I were interested in destroyed a competing organization or political party, how would I go about it? This is an especially difficult task considering that my ideology is fast becoming exposed as a failed socio-economic construct (unfettered capitalism).

I would obviously have to find a way to weaken the opposition in order to even have a chance to compete. Sabotage is the answer. In order to sabotage an organization one needs to infiltrate it.

I believe there was a concerted effort by conservatives to infiltrate the Democratic party, but there was a twist. In this case they did it in broad daylight; out in the open. Instead of pretending to be traditional democrats they chose instead to admit that they are not interested in traditional democratic values.

They gradually made the case that because they can win, they are true heirs to the party leadership. However, Bill Clinton's great victory was a result of Ross Perot's candidacy.

To summarize, the "middle way" is the path towards the full and complete descent into a fascist state through the elimination of any representation of labor and of civil rights.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
65. Rather, they created the MYTH that Dems can't win --while elections were STOLEN ---
And that backs up to the mid-1960's . . .
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Meanwhile,we also have infiltration of the Green Party -- just to ensure that you have no real choices!!!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R BTD
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. This is exactly why
I am not a party purist. Why issues always have to come before party for me.

Thank you for posting. I hope many people read.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I have not been a "party purist" until recently (2000)
And I believe that if we could just get enough Democrats to become party purists and form a reliable, straight-ticket voting, coming-out-for-every-election bloc, the Democratic Party could finally get itself a spine and stop compromising what are supposedly its core principles for fear of losing to the Repugs. This by itself would take care of the DLC because it would be clear that the majority wanted something else besides center-right compromising and WAS WILLING TO VOTE FOR IT - not just occasionally scream about it and then give up or be apathetic by the time the elections rolled around.

2006 was an excellent start but we're gonna have to prove that we'll consistently come out in strong numbers. Then if the party doesn't move our way and rid itself of the DLC... well, then it's time for a stronger push for change to the system itself.

http://www.fairvote.org/irv /
http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/index.php
http://www.whytuesday.org /
http://www.foavc.org /

John Edwards: "I actually don't have a problem with the two-party system as long as the Democratic Party is strong and actually stands for something. So long as we strongly stand to end the war in Iraq, to make universal health care available to every single American, to end the extraordinary economic inequality in this country, to lift 37 million Americans out of poverty, and to do something about the moral crisis that is global warming. So long as my party is strong and shows some backbone and courage and leads on these big issues, then I don't have a problem with the two-party system."

Reading between the lines, if the Democratic Party DOESN'T do those things, then he does have a problem with the two-party system and so should we all. But we can give our party the backbone it needs by not being rainy-day voters, by coming out to EVERY election no matter how minor or whether there's a hot-button issue or the country has been led by the likes of W... EVERY election.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. We see through very different lenses.
I think that '06 provided incontrovertible evidence that putting party before issues is a long-term loss. How many of the issues are "off the table" since '06?

I think the first sign of getting a spine and standing up for those core principles would be to reach out to the more national allies on the left, instead of the constant pandering to the right.

I also think that's the way to build a stronger, healthier, more vibrant party. Bring in those disenfranchised on the left, instead of getting into bed with the opposition.

Instead, I see a call to unify around centrist candidates, to embrace pandering to the right, rather than reaching out to, and unifying, the left wing of our own party, let alone the 3rd parties and independents on the left.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. The pressure must be kept on the leadership.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:11 PM by FlyingSquirrel
They are the ones who took crucial things "off the table" - but why did they do that?

Because of their fear that if they did what the people were clamoring for in 2006, those same people would be satisfied, and not bother to come out in 2008 to vote for a Democratic president. That's what it really all boils down to - it's not that they feared any kind of backlash from Republican voters, really - they feared the short attention spans of Democratic voters.

"Give 'em what they want", they thought, "and in 2008 they won't be angry enough or hungry enough for change to come out and vote for the Democratic nominee."

And they're probably right. If we had shown them that we were committed to maintaining our focus and reliably coming out to vote for Democrats, that we would come out in numbers sufficient to overcome any attempt at vote-stealing, then they almost certainly would have gone ahead and impeached Bush and Cheney. But one single mid-term election does not a pattern make. We have to prove that this is a long-term sea change and a change in our core commitment to vote reliably and vote every time - the way Republicans do.

I am still furious that they did not stand up to Bush on the war and many other things, and impeach them both. But I do see their side of the issue and so we must take some responsibility ourselves for not giving them a reason to believe we would still be focused and energized in November 2008 without something to vote AGAINST.

Because in reality, the Presidency is what our party must have and so I cannot fault them for keeping their eyes on that prize in spite of the things they are sacrificing in the short term to reach that goal.

FISA, on the other hand... retroactive immunity must not be allowed to go through.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. If that's truly their reasoning, then it's faulty.
Their spinelessness after '06 makes it much less likely that I'll be willing to hold my nose for the lesser of two evils in November. That's not significant, if it's only me, but I don't think that's the case. I've heard the same from too many others.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. They probably figure there are more independents and democrats who
aren't as left-leaning as us, that will come out and vote. They figure they might lose some of us to the green party or other minor parties, but will gain a lot more independents and fair-weather democrats than they lose of us.

:shrug:

It's the only thing that makes sense. But I guess we're gonna see what happens when a new admin takes over. They aren't required to impeach these guys if they don't want to (I read the language and I don't agree with some people's interpretation of "shall" in the context of the sentence structure); and I don't see the lack of impeachment as setting a precedent, any more than a cop letting a speeder pass means they can't write a ticket for the next guy.

This is coming from someone who still has the word "IMPEACH" in foot-high letters on his tailgate. At this point I've become resigned to their strategy (although I'm keeping the word there till they're gone). The strategy better work.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. I don't have any faith
that a new admin is going to make any of the differences that I'm looking for. If I did, I'd probably suck it up and take the lesser of two evils route.

I'm thinking that the only way to convince them that there are enough of us to matter on the left is to make that point. With votes.

It's informative that there are so many willing to play the blame game with those who voted third party in 2000; that indicates that the left has enough impact to matter, or that they are a convenient scapegoat to cover the sins of others, or both.

If third party voters on the left really did throw the election to Bush in 2000, then it seems like it might be a good thing to nominate a candidate that can bring those voters in. Instead, the majority of Democratic voters would rather nominate a centrist, and hate the left who won't join them more bitterly than they supposedly hate the right.



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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. We haven't had two parties for a very long time.
We only have two wings of the corporate/ruling class party. Ironically, people as disparate as H. Ross Perot, Warren Buffet, and Ralph Nader, have been warning us for decades about this.
:kick:


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
66. Absolutely . . . and has to be taken to the level of small "d" democracy . . ..
before large "D" party . . . . !!!!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
94. That's why I'm an independent, LWolf. The only reason. n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Dishonesty always begins through muddying and redefining words.
Once the con is in, people elect them to positions of government. Once that happens they solidify that position and create a power base within the party. We've all seen the results now with unconstitutional conduct being largely ignored.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
34. Excellent post Bob
Many of us know and that number grows everyday. It's time to cut the head off of this monster. :D
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Maineman Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
35. DLC is much worse than I realized.
Basically neocon Democrats.
Thanks for the info.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. It's already been coined neo-liberalism, If I understand the term correctly n/t
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R, it should also be noted that...

PPI was created specifically to be Bill Clinton's thinktank.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks Bob, while you were in the Midwest
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 04:55 PM by mitchtv
I was doing the same thing in Nor Cal, and yes, ended up in jail a few times. Funny thing, when that happens, you're on your own, at least I was. Those were the days when Tom hayden banned Gays from the Movement and we were thrown off the podium at the big anti war rally in GG Park. I spent my moneymaking years dedicated to my Union and cam out a Democrat ( although I did not vote for HHH in '68). It is sad to see what has happened to our party and see the contest between Obama and Hillary as ending badly. Similar to the Dem governors races in CA lately. Unfortunately, I will not support the insurgent Dem, as he has failed to prove himself to be in any way superior in theory or practice from the "establishment candidate". As a long time Dem I have found that I will probably have to hold my nose, just one more time.
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
41. i feel sick
the new democrats. well they are the old dems. we are the new dems and traditional dems. no more dlc. i could never understand why gore chose lieberman. now i know why.
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
42. Wow!! K&R n/t
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. I spent some time reading up on PPI a couple
of years ago. It's PNAC in a liberal frame is all. PPI scares me as much as neo-cons.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. 
The Trouble with the DLC
Posted August 13, 2007 | 01:14 PM (EST)


Why are Harold Ford and others from the more paternalistic and condescending quarters of the Democratic Party so keen on discrediting the rising progressive movement? What have been the consequences of their obsession with "the middle"? Most importantly, how have the Tory Democrats managed to bury the expression of deep progressive values, and what should the progressive movement do about it?

For three decades, advocates of "centrism" have used their money to monopolize the Democratic message and leave the progressive base out in the cold, not spoken to. Since its founding in 1985, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) has been leading this effort. How did they pull this off? Before we get into that, let's call them what they are. "Centrist" implies conciliation, moderation, compromise. It reinforces the mistaken idea that our political life falls along a neat, linear scale from left to right. That metaphor makes the center a pretty good and safe place to be. And that it certainly is not.

The plutocratic Democrats should be referred to not as centrists, but as industrial authoritarians. Their movement was born after the Nixon re-election in 1972. They blamed that landslide on Democratic Party rules changes that audaciously sought to include Americans formerly excluded from the back rooms of power. They fronted for older corporate interests -- oil and gas, finance, insurance. The are really 19th-Century paternalists who would save us from ourselves by keeping us far from the plantation's Big House.

-snip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-w-smith/the-trouble...



David Sirota on the DLC:

-snip

It was the DLCs president, Al From, who in 2001 said that his goal was to give Democrats a game plan to try to contain the populism. Populism, you may recall, is defined as supporting the rights and powers of the common people in their struggle with the privileged elite. Al From has made that vision a reality. The DLCwhich has been funded by the likes of Chevron, Enron, Merck and Philip Morrishas, until recently, been extremely effective at pressuring Democrats to ignore the will of the public and capitulate to big businesss demands. The DLC has also made a public spectacle of itself by berating Democratic candidates who actually stand up for ordinary people.

PUTTING THE MOCK IN DEMOCRACYTo be sure, the DLC never openly admits its objectives, or even its funding sources. Instead, it bills itself as quasi grassroots, holding so-called national conversations in an effort to create the impression that its corporate-written agenda has some semblance of public support.

Yet the media coverage of its most recent such conversation, in Denver this past July, tells the real story. The New York Sun noted that the meeting focused on pondering how to counter the netrootsi.e., how to counter the millions of grassroots Democratic Party voters who use the Internet to advocate for a more democratic political system. Perhaps most telling of all was the Rocky Mountain Newss note that the DLCs supposed national conversation at the Hyatt Regency Hotel was, in fact, not open to the public.

In an August Rolling Stone column, reporter Matt Taibbi recounted his interview with one DLC leader, who called anti-war activists narrow dogmatists. Taibbi pointed out that recent Gallup polls have shown that fully 91 percent of Democrats support a withdrawal from Iraq, and he asked the DLC leader to explain this contradiction. So these hundreds of thousands of Democrats who are against the war are narrow dogmatists? Taibbi asked. We have thirty corporate-funded spokesmen telling hundreds of thousands of actual voters that theyre narrow dogmatists?

-snip

http://www.davidsirota.com/index.php/big-money-vs-grass... /



The Democrats 2008 Choice: Sell Out & Lose, Or Stand Up & Win
Posted July 26, 2005 | 03:42 PM (EST)




The 2008 Democratic presidential candidates this week are busy genuflecting at Corporate America's altar -- otherwise known as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Now, it's true -- the DLC is really just a group of Beltway-insulated corporate-funded hacks who have spent the better part of the last decade trying to undermine the Democratic Party's traditional working class base -- a base that had kept Democrats in power for 40 years and now, thanks to the DLC, has been forfeited to the Republicans. Even so, the fact that these presidential candidates feel the need to bow down to the DLC is a troubling sign about whether the Democratic Party is really serious about regaining power in America.

Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business -- even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in brazenly Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda.

Now, you could make a credible argument that the DLC's corporatization/Republicanization of the Democratic Party was justified, had it led to electoral success for Democrats. Few would argue that today's split-the-difference Democratic Party hasn't followed the DLC's policy direction over the last 10 years. That means the last 10 years of elections really have been a referendum on whether the DLC's model -- regardless of any moral judgements about it -- actually wins at the polls.

And that's when we get to the real problem with the DLC -- its policies are BOTH morally bankrupt, and politically disastrous. The rise of the DLC within the Democratic Party has coincided almost perfectly with the decline of the Democratic Party's power in American politics -- a decline that took Democrats from seemingly permanent majority status to permanent minority status. In this last election, just think of Democrats' troubles in Ohio as a perfect example of this. Here was a state ravaged by massive job loss due to corporate-written "free" trade deals -- yet Democrats were unable to capitalize on that issue and thus couldn't win the state because the DLC had long ago made sure the party helped pass the very trade policies (NAFTA, China PNTR) that sold out those jobs.

-SNIP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/the-democrat...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Can't get much plainer than that, can it?
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. They've done a very good job with this -
Yet the media coverage of its most recent such conversation, in Denver this past July, tells the real story. The New York Sun noted that the meeting focused on pondering how to counter the netrootsi.e., how to counter the millions of grassroots Democratic Party voters who use the Internet to advocate for a more democratic political system. Perhaps most telling of all was the Rocky Mountain Newss note that the DLCs supposed national conversation at the Hyatt Regency Hotel was, in fact, not open to the public.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. Wonderful post -- DLC co-opts party/arranges defeat -- blames liberals!!!
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. There's interesting Dem 'party' 'history,'
I think; if only we had the luxury to be studying it in the future and not living in these 'intersting' times. Coincidentally I wrote this last night, fwiw:

"It may be that 'party' did have control before hrc was candidate and had time actually to exercise control. (Dean quite rightly doesn't think he should push any candidate, so he wouldn't push Joe etc., but tries to keep others from pushing anyone.)

Last time around, mcauliffe wouldn't have had Dr. Dean's scruples; he was and is a clinton man, so he/party/DLC kept best candidate from getting anywhere; Wes Clark didn't have a chance; media did what 'party' wanted, resulting in another bush term instead of great Dem candidate who would have TWO terms, keeping H out until '12.

Yes I'm still crying about '04, but didn't mean to bring it up; just thinking about 'former power of Dem party', or 'power of former Dem party.' Now, I'm so disgusted with the whole bunch that I've just about 'retired' from politics, hope 'party' dissolves, and hoping for 3rd party candidates."

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
69. Maybe you should come back in and think about this . . .
Are you sure that all those losses had anything to do with the Democratic Party and/or their
candidates --- ???

Remember that the computers started to come in during the mid-1960's . . .
We've pretty much had an "Operation Gladio" running in America --- !!!
PLUS with the recent unocovering of documents which suggest that Howard Huges front companies
for CIA were being instructed to put $ into the campaign chests of Thurmond Munson, Gerald Ford
and others --- !!!!

Meanwhile, two journalists in Florida were looking for a new angle for a story.
They decided that one of them should run for office which they did. As they watched the returns
that evening their figures jumped and then .... well, what happened next caused them to begin to
investigate what we now know as computer steals by the right-wing.

They had a contract for a book with a major publisher, but as soon as it hit the books stores
it was immediately suppressed. You can read or scan the book --- often humorous --
here: http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Both of these brothers --- Jim & Ken Collier -- are deceased now.
Their family keeps the website going to inform the public.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #69
77. Come back in to accomplish what?
or TRY to accomplish what?

The conspiracy you suggest is untold times wider and deeper than the one I and many others have suspected since '00 and '04, and how have the people and the Dems reacted? Sounds as if Dem corporatists and others have been involved for long long time, and I don't think I'll spend the rest of my life trying; I'll find somethings else to do.

Thanks.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. We all face that same question . . ..
You're no better off now that you know the steals are probably traceable to the mid-1960's . . .
you're probably even unhappier ---

But many people here don't know that ---

Should they know it --- ?

Could you help pass the info along --- ??

Meanwhile, I sympathize with what you're saying ---

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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
50. It's going to be a great distraction.
The packaging of Obama
Progressive, The, Feb, 2007 by Kevin Alexander Gray

But the use and meaning of Jackson's phrase has changed over the years since Clinton co-opted it. Jackson's "common ground" meant bringing together a coalition of workers, women, men, blacks, progressive whites, gays and lesbians, environmentalists, anti-apartheid activists, those opposed to Ronald Reagan's illegal war in Central America, farmers, Latinos, Arab Americans, and other traditionally underrepresented or unrepresented groups. With Jackson's phrase, all could demand a seat at the Democratic Party table.

By contrast, Clinton wanted the Democratic Party to renew its "common ground" with those who left the party with Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrats and those who jumped ship when Ronald Reagan rose to power: white men. Clinton's "common ground" was with the Democratic Leadership Council. Clinton's "common ground" pushed aside those whom Jackson brought to the party. And The Audacity of Hope places Obama squarely in the DLC camp, even if he never applies for a membership card.

snip

But I'm afraid people are going to discount Obama not for what he says, but for who he is. I was at the bank talking politics, among other things, with Maria, the head teller. As I spoke in my usual unrestrained and audible way, so as to let anyone hear me without having to eavesdrop, Obama's name came up. An older white gentleman standing next to me said, "Ya know his middle name is Hussein? This country will never elect a man named Hussein President!" To which I could only respond, "Well, the country elected a man that is insane!"


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1295/is_2_71/ai_...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. Our party, that we worked so hard for, and invested in, is DEAD.
:cry:

Yet, it will be quite a while before most realize it.

:cry:

By then, it will be too late.

:cry:
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. The Democratic Pary as I knew it no longer exists...bt it is not dead..
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 05:05 PM by Tippy
And is because of Bi-Partisanship....

This is the statement I found on the bipartisanship web site:

Too often partisanship poisons our national dialogue. Unfortunately, respectful discourse across party lines has become the exception - not the norm.

To confront this challenge, the Bipartisan Policy Center (BPC) was formed to develop and promote solutions that would attract the public support and political momentum to achieve real progress. The BPC acts as an incubator for policy efforts that engage top political figures, advocates, academics and business leaders in the art of principled compromise. In addition to advancing specific proposals, the BPC also is broadcasting a different type of policy discourse that seeks to unite the constructive center in the pursuit of common goals.

BIG MISTAKE....Tell me where are the common goals today.....Republicans are not one bit bipartisan and never have been...it's their way or the highway...They played Democrats for fools when they pulled this one out of the hat....Time for me to go back to our roots....just call me a "Yellow Dog"...


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
70. Right . . .there is very little left of the Democratic Party . . .
HOWEVER, if a large number of Democrats know and understand that they can do something about it ---

It is ignorance of what's really going on that means they get away with it---!!!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #70
78. Sadly, "they can" is very different from "they will".
Stepping out of line, speaking up and taking action is scary.

Some of us at DU know the penalty for this.

:shrug:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. I've been there, way before there was a DLC-I described only a few things in my OP.
For many other people it was worse.

It is a fact that death squads were operating in America in the mid-late 1960's "neutralizing" American citizens that were on lists, and that the membership of these units came from law enforcement, our military and intelligence communities as well as organized crime.

These black programs were associated with various LEAA "training" programs, COINTELPRO's, domestic "surveillance", local law enforcement "political" and "intelligence" units, etc.

It is worse today, much worse. Some of the tactics and techniques have been refined, but the use of fear and intimidation is a constant-also, today's technology (that has dual uses) seems "out of this world", particularly in the neurosciences (which were militarized long ago).

I'm beyond all that extreme stuff-but it is what motivates me--I'm a citizen that wants accountability to come to those that have literally gotten away with murder, and are often prominent upstanding members of their communities. I also want accountability to come to those currently holding office that sanction these networks-regardless of their political affiliation.

The use of torture, war as policy, the demise of the rule of law, the privatization of literally everything, legislating crimes as the law of the land-that has no place in anyone's political platform.

Yet the DLC is supportive of these neoconservative goals.

I know it isn't for everyone, but I'll never give up seeking accountability and justice for those murderers that call themselves "the good guys".

And I'll never stop sharing what I know and have learned over the decades with people.



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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. "Some of the tactics and techniques have been refined," Psychiatry has entered the realm, too.
I don't wanna get too much into tin foil country, :tinfoilhat: , but I think we're now to the point of needing to expect this step against us.

Yet, who will actually listen???

:cry:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. "neurosciences"-yes, I hear you. eom.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. Thanks for the additional info . . .
much that I didn't know about re earlier times and what you think is going on now ---

And what a struggle it has been to try to get DU to just recognize betrayal of DLC --- !!!

Imagine how far we all are from understanding this and working it into our consciousness --- !!!

Quite explains the level of confidence and arrogance these fascist leaders display --- !!!

A sad thank you --


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. Do you mean making waves within the party . . . at DU . . .
or in the streets --- ???

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. All of the above, and more.
There's a huge penalty for those of us who "step out of line", "rock the boat", etc.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Thanks . . .
obviously you and many others keep trying ---

People are going to try to protect themselves and their families as long as possible,
which means that much has to be ignored, much has to go unseen, unheard ---

Am I left to hope that this system will fall of its own evil --- ?

And, then there is Global Warming ---
and PNAC hopes for militarization of the skies ---


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. I'm only trying now in terms of poverty awareness. I've been shunned by "peace" groups.. they don't
see us poor folk as important, and shunned by all the other "causes", so I gave up, and now only work on poverty issues.

:( :( :( :(

"Am I left to hope that this system will fall of its own evil --- ?"

Well, I"m no expert on that, but I"m hoping just that. I used to think that it was very important that a democracy have a strong middleclass, but when I see what that has led to, and just how ignorant and selfish and non-caring the middleclass has become, and how unable they are to understand what it's like for those of us on the bottom rung, I've come to the conclusion that the only way so many are going to regain their humanity is to suffer that fall.

It's sad, but all of what I've seen and heard the last many years leads me to that conclusion.

:cry:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Interesting points . . .
sad, but probably true.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
61. I think 3rd Parties are
needed in this country. Hell...maybe 4 would be better.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. When I was born in Milwaukee in 1949, Mayor Frank Zeidler was a Socialist.
He was Mayor of Milwaukee from 1948-60. Milwaukee was a pretty good place to live and grow-up in then.

Emil Seidel was the first Socialist mayor of a US City, he was elected mayor of Milwaukee in 1910.

Young Carl Zeidler was a Socialist, he was elected Mayor of Milwaukee in 1940. He took a leave of absence to join the U.S. Merchant Marine in 1942. Carl died when a Nazi submarine torpedoed the ship (La Salle) he was serving on.

Frank was Carl's older brother. He was defeated from having a 4th term by a combination of Democrats and Republicans using race-based campaigning (Milwaukee was also the largest physically race segregated City in the Midwest at that time).

We've needed true opposition parties for decades as well as progressive alliances. The DLC has worked towards severing that possibility within the Democratic Party from its inception.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. I remember reading that Oklahoma at
one time was a strong Socialist area as well (I think back in the '30's and '40's). It's as if the words, 'socialist' and 'liberal' have been tainted by TPTB.

I always thought of socialism as 'sharing.' Never could understand why everyone got so damned upset about sharing!?

The DLC just cares about Big Biz...an analogy that comes to mind: The DLC is like the Union Managers who thought they deserved fancy cars, big houses, etc....just like the Corp. Managers. The DLC forgets that they represent working people.

GREED GREED and more GREED...I think that era is about to come to an end and we'll be seeing Fear instead. It would be so much easier just to share.

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. Oklahoma DID have a Socialist era, but it was more turn of the century.
n/t.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
92. Maybe it's time for a return to
the idea of 'sharing?'
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #63
102. What is TPTB?
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. the powers that be...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. For your own protection --- even if you want to marry the Democratic Party . . .
you are better off with the options of being able to vote for a viable third party ---
SUPPORT third parties --- and IRV voting ---
and make sure that your own party isn't interferring --- as it is! --- with keeping third
party candidates off ballots ---


As some Dems have revealed . . . "we don't have to listen because Dems have no place to go!!"

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #71
93. You're Right....! nt
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New Dawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
67. Kick for truth!
DLC = GOP
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
72. You did a fantastic job---!!! and the question is . . . what took you so long---????
Why have DU'ers simply ignored the DLC --- why don't they get it --- ?

And, often here, we'll have people come out to support them .....
don't see it here, as yet!!

Why has this been going on since 1985 and no one has questioned it?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. In the past I've discussed the DLC and used terms like moles-in the context of the coup of 2000.
There were very few members that did that in the past. My focus in the past was on the RW in the Republican Party and extreme militarists.

That is no longer the case. When Michael Ledeen wrote his doctoral thesis on "Universal Fascism" I assumed that there would be effective organized opposition to such a concept. I was wrong.

That's the short form, defendandprotect.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Well...I think it was waiting to be done just the way you've done it --- !!!
And I hope a lot of DU'ers pay attention to this thread --- !!!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
75. Thanks. Any reasonable Democrat knows that the DLC/NDC/Bluedogs
are republican moles and a threat to all life on this planet.

And no, there is absolutely no sarcasm here.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #75
139. Reason is difficult to come by these days, isn't it Zorra?
Yes, there are RW politically allied powerful groups that I call "a culture of death" and you refer to as "a threat to all life on this planet"-we are talking about the same thing here, and it is very painful to fully realize that most everything a person had worked for politically was betrayed from within.

The positive aspect is that the truth always matters and it sets us free from the liars and their agenda-truth gives all advantages to those that have found it.
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
82. "organizations that use words like progressive, democratic or liberal in their titles"
National-Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter-Partei.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. A real classic, that was before domain names were "privatized"
so was The Roman Republic...
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Actually, Rome really *did* have a republican period, and it's very interesting
That's when the consul Publius Valerius Publicola pushed through laws stating, among other things: that anyone trying to make himself king could be executed by whoever got to him first; that the poor need pay no taxes; and that people were the ultimate rulers--consular decisions could be appealed to and overturned by the people without bloodshed. His reforms earned him the nickname "Poplicola" - "friend of the people".

The republican period lasted over 400 years and only ended when some slime (I can't remember who or, oddly, even find him) got the people to *give* him imperial/dictatorial powers. All downhill from there.

I thought Poplicola's reforms were very interesting and far-sighted. I especially like that first one, where an absolute defense against a charge of murder was to show that the victim had tried to make himself king. :evilgrin:
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techtrainer Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #84
111. Roman Republic
""The republican period lasted over 400 years and only ended when some slime (I can't remember who or, oddly, even find him) got the people to *give* him imperial/dictatorial powers. All downhill from there."

I believe you are referring to Julius Caesar
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #111
128. All Hail Ceaser AWOL Disgustus
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
95. K&R Thank you so much for this information.
OMG! I had to bookmark this. My eyes are really blurry from reading.

I'm scared now, too. :scared:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. Hang on tight, Jesuswasntafascist-let's go visit the DLC website!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
98. Bobthedrummer Where in the hell have you been!
I have been thirsty for this information in a compilation of links. Thank you ever so much! YOU ARE A STAR!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. No, I'm a human! Drink to your heart's content lonestarnot. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #99
103. Well that didn't come out so good did it...
I meant the information. My eyes are in knots from reading! I am looking at Hillary Clinton in a new light and the people yapping in support of her on a MSNBC program and I'm seeing pugs. Ackety! :puke: I think I will no longer be nice about "loving" both candidates to avoid friction. I hope every DUer here reads the links. It has taken a couple of hours. Very complicated insidious deceit! I HATE BEING DIPPED WORSE THAN .... well no... I hate THEM more!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
105. Kick
:kick:
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
109. k and r...
nt...
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
110. Eye-opening... Thank you all.
Too late to recommend, but will pass this info on to many more.

Kudos, Bob!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. That's what I was hoping for when I started this little thread, Kaleko.
My Democratic candidate and my second choice Democratic candidate weren't Team DLC players-and they were "neutralized" before "Super Duper Tuesday".

I voted for my Democratic choice regardless-I loathe Team DLC and what they are doing as much as I despise the Republicans and RW.

Hell, it's obvious those two (DLC&RW) are political allies!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. They Sure Exhibit the Same Character Traits
Always bitchin' about the left and BS about holding Bush accountable. They don't fool me one bit. I gave then the benefit of the doubt up until 2006... after that election I knew they were placing themselves into the Democratic Party to move it to the right and to diminish what liberal or progressives traits it had.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. Consider the facts: that these groups were founded circa 1984-85, funding that came from RW,
that the traditional Democratic base support was intentionally excluded so that policies mirroring the neoconservative goals would be advanced within the Democratic Party and that lying, subterfuge and deception are standard operating procedure.

Most of all, consider what happens to those within the party that have opposed Team DLC and actually worked to further the interests of we, the people.

I'm beyond anger and frustration now.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
113. Oh... Did I Kick This Already. Let Me Do It Again
Especially for those disingenuous DLC hacks supporting Hillary.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
115. A question for posters here....
I'll admit I'm not up to speed as a lot of you are, but I have railed against the DLC for some time.

I may have missed part of the story somewhere and would appreciate any enlightenment.

Simple question: Why would a union endorse a DLC candidate? Have union leaders been hoodwinked or what?

Thanks for the thread, bob, and thanks to all contributors.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #115
125. Good question. I was the captain of an informational picket line for the UFCW
during a successful organizing campaign in Green Bay, WI. I walked the lines for 16 months in that. Some of the International Reps that ate dinner in my apartment were absolutely right when it came to seeing the effects of NAFTA before it was enacted.

Some of those International Reps had experiences in closing down corrupted Locals. When it comes to corrupted labor officials, I could tell you personal stories based on my father's lifelong Teamster membership or my father-in-law's tenure as a Local President.

Good question, I don't have a ready answer to it, antigop.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
116. kick
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
117. Hey, Bob Didn't see your post, originally, but caught link in our state forum
Don't know if you saw this post, on Hillary's involvement with the National Prayer Breakfast group, from an article in Mother Jones.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Excerpt:

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes...


There are some great links in the OP, and the replies that follow.

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he
will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
Luke 16:13 KJV

"For neither you nor anyone else can serve two masters. You will hate one and show loyalty to the other, or else the other way around-you will be enthusiastic about one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."
Luke 16:13 The Living Bible
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #117
124. Kick!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
120. K&R.....This is a year we see it all coming to full flower....
Thanks for all your work on this...and other issues.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. I lost track of all the posts of yours and other friends here that got me looking into those
"issues", KoKo01.

Bomb, bomb, bomb

Bomb, bomb Iran...

With ordnance packages and delivery systems that helps DLC members profit and advance their agenda...
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
126. If I could, I'd rec this. I'll Kick anyway. n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
127. Has this thread changed anyone's mind as to who they now support?
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 06:25 PM by bobthedrummer
Who they can, in good conscience, support?

Has this thread, which I'm now linking to in many GD-P threads, been helpful to DUer's that haven't participated in it yet?

I'd like to hear from you if that's the case.

I'm sure I'm not alone wondering if this has this been a helpful thread for anyone else?

I've learned from many of the responses so far.

I'm beyond anger and frustration, that's for sure.

I'm looking for organized effective political opposition to the criminals (past and present) in the coup installed administration of George Walker Bush/Richard Bruce Cheney-I'm looking for that effective opposition within the Democratic Party, not its internal power struggles.

I'd like to hear from people that can name a few of them. Senator Russ Feingold, one of my Senators is certainly one of them, so is Ohio's Rep. Dennis Kucinich. Unless I'm mistaken both of them are not associated with the DLC.

I haven't reached any definite conclusions about Senator Obama, yet. I will not be voting a straight Democratic ticket, assuming a GE is held in November and I certainly haven't ruled out voting for Senator Obama if he is the nominee, a lot would depend on his running mate.

Due to what I've learned researching the DLC before starting this thread a week ago I publicly state I will never vote for Hillary Clinton, or any ticket she is on, just as I will never vote for a Republican.

Third parties arising out of the Democratic Party, or independent candidates coming out of the Democratic Party would get my support and vote just as much as Senator Obama might-but not Hillary Clinton nor any other DLC apparatchik.

Anyone else's political thinking been changed by what we are discussing in this thread?
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
129. Thanks for your explanation of how we are being duped
The DLC never passed my smell test, but you gave me info that makes me resent them all the more.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. "ooohh that smell...can't you smell that smell..." n/t
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stimbox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
131. Thanks Bob! Keep fighting the good fight! n/t
:bounce:
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
133. kicking (nt)
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
134. I can say 1 good thing about al from - he doesn't blame Nader
for 2000 or 2004.

Nader blame is lame
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. Al From speaks the same kind of coded language as Donald Rumsfeld
here's an example of Al From's political NewSpeak v.23 in an article posted at Steve Benen's The Carpetbagger Report July 26th, 2007

"DLC snub not part of a larger trend"
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/11595.htm...
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #136
152. .
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
135. Blueprint Magazine is a publication of the DLC. Al From is the CEO of DLC.
Edited on Sat Mar-15-08 10:12 PM by bobthedrummer
Did this April 15th 2003 Blueprint editorial speak for you in regards to the invasion of Iraq?

"Democrats and The War"
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251490&kaid=1...

That article was published after the Decider et al. launched their war of choice on Iraq. Before it was published, before the invasion of Iraq began with the shock and awe, I had been protesting against it in the frozen tundra of NE Wisconsin. At that time I was supportive of military action in Afghanistan.

That article was published after the IWR "vote", a "vote" based on all the lies of the war criminals and war profiteers that initiated the regime change.

Let's take a look at the Third Way's Board of Trustees (and while visiting there take a look at their other leadership pages) I don't have much in common with them aside from being a human being, do you?

Third Way Board of Trustees
http://www.thirdway.org/leadership/trustees
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
137. Kicking, simply because it should be noted by as many people as possible.
BTW, the DLC can KMA. QED.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #137
140. !
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #140
141. Kick for the truth.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
142. The poison pill.
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 09:50 PM by mmonk
Anyone wanting to know why there are any serious investigations? Anyone want to know why the few who fight for the constitution can't get anywhere?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. This RW political machine inside the Democratic Party provides some answers
now we need solutions asap, an antidote
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
144. A relevant WillyT thread-"As War Neared in 2003--Hillary Was Silent"
this is relevant because of the publicly spoken enthusiasm for using WAR AS POLICY of the co-founder of the DLC, Will Marshall, a PNAC letter signatory and President of the DLC's leading policy think tank PPI.

To some, silence denotes consent.

"As War Neared in 2003--Hillary Was Silent" (active WillyT GD-P thread started 3-16-2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
145. this needs a kick every day
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
148. KICK - This should be required reading for all progressives. n/t
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
149. Outstanding read.
Just another political soul-mate checking in. :hi:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
150. Until I post again here at DU, one last kick from me-I'll be back later
in a week or so.

This is a must read thread, it's spring clean-up time. It is Easter week.

Keep adding to this thread, add the truth about these New Democrats and their neocon policies and candidates.

They can't stand the truth anymore than George Walker Bush or Richard Bruce Cheney can-that is what they most fear.

See you all next week.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
151. Thanks for this, Bob.
K&R
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. It came in handy when we went to the "listening session" with Rep. Ron Kind last week, JR.
Context wise.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
154. k
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
155. I would add Joe Lieberman's 3rd party run- largely endorsed & supported by the DLC.
One of the things DLCers lie about the most- anything concerning their "former" support for Joe Lieberman(I-3rd Party).

Links-o-plenty found here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marshall+Wittmann+...
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