Grand Canyon at least 17 million years old ---

[defendandprotect]

10 million years older than previously thought ---

It took eons to make Grand Canyon grand By LAURAN NEERGAARD, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 25 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Gazing into the majestic Grand Canyon, awe-struck visitors inevitably ask: "How old is it?" Far older than generally thought, says new evidence that scientists culled from caves lining the canyon's red limestone cliffs.

The Grand Canyon often is referred to as about 6 million years old — but its western half actually began to open at least 17 million years ago, a University of New Mexico team reports Friday in the journal Science.

Wait: The western side of the canyon is the downstream end of the Colorado River, so how could it be older than the arguably more spectacular eastern side?

Remember, geologists caution, that the Grand Canyon was carved from drainage systems that didn't turn into the single river we now know as the Colorado until roughly 6 million years ago. The new research suggests two canyons formed that eventually joined. And it makes sense that the older side would even look different, less jagged, thanks to more years of gravity and wind erosion to soften its edges.

"This is really exciting for those of us who work in the stories and theories of how the Grand Canyon has evolved," Arizona geologist Wayne Ranney, author of "Carving the Grand Canyon," said of the new work. "This paper helps us to more clearly understand that different parts of the canyon formed at different times. That's how big the Grand Canyon is."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080307/ap_on_sc/old_grand_canyon

They just threw some water in their to try to bring the level up --
My son happened to be there recently --- water very, very low --

[laconicsax]

1. Wrong

It's somewhere around 6 thousand years old.

:dunce:

[A HERETIC I AM]

5. The 17 million is creationist dog years. n/t

[Drifter]

30. and Man used ...

dinosaurs to do most of the work.

Cheers
Drifter

[SoCalDem]

2. Is NOT

:P.. The literature they SELL there says it's in line with Biblical stories.. Jesus invented the Grand Canyon


see.. it's there.. in the background

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. RLOL... so he came to save the dinos first?

[annabanana]

31. Is it scarier that Jesus is riding the dinosaur.. or that he's the SAME SIZE as the dinosaur?

I just don't know.

[warren pease]

3. Can't be...

The bible tells us the earth is just a little over 6,000 years old, so what the hell is this secular humanist geologist talking about.

We all know gawd left all these weird gotchas around to test our faith. Like the fossil record and carbon dating. So while this guy may think he sees evidence that the Grand Canyon is more than 17 million years old, he's just another victim of the Great Cosmic Joker.

He needs to spend more time in church and less time poking around under a bunch of 6,000-year-old rocks.

So there.


wp

[stevedeshazer]

8. Damn straight

These heretics should be stoned to death, then drawn and quartered.

They need to read their fuckin' Bible.

[L. Coyote]

19. Heretics must always be paraded in dunce caps before being burned at the stake.

It's the public humiliation that deters sinners, not fire,
because, in hell, they have to endure that stain on their reputations for eternity :rofl:

[The Straight Story]

11. On the flip side of all that

Should we trust scientists when they tell us something?

I have heard several reasons why the dinos died out - from a meteor to methane gas in the oceans.

And then I ask - what should we teach in schools? One person's theory or another?

[warren pease]

16. Well, I AM beginning to wonder about evolution...

Consider that it only took us about 220 years to go from George Washington to George Bush. Doesn't speak well for an evolving species.

Not to mention Tom Paine to Tom Friedman.

I don't like the pattern.


wp

[MedleyMisty]

22. We don't know everything

Humans aren't perfect. The basic idea of science is that you come up with a hypothesis and test it. If it's wrong, oh well, you try to find another explanation.

And because of our limitations, you may think it's right when it's really wrong - but that's okay, because in the future someone will come along with better technology or with better knowledge of related domains and figure out the real explanation and prove you wrong. Or maybe they're just a little more right and it'll take someone else with more knowledge and more technology to get it really right. Our scientific knowledge is always progessing and correcting itself. It's not carved in stone and no one tries to say, "This is the way that things are forever and I am perfectly right."

Give me science's attempts to correct wrong ideas and theories over hating and denying rights and killing people based on two thousand year old beliefs any day.

[The Minus World]

26. Yes, but...

Scientists never claim to have all the answers. Our understanding of the universe is ever-expanding. New technology provides new opportunities to overcome the hurdles of past research and, as a result, new theories arise which may contradict the old.

It may seem frustrating to you, but the fact that "Science" changes its mind so often is precisely what makes it such a vital tool for understanding.

[lpbk2713]

4. That piece of information will never make it into Florida school textbooks.

Not in my lifetime anyway.

[peacetalksforall]

6. 'They're' going to be sooooo mad. Denial time.

[defendandprotect]

7. Could the Bible be wrong . . . egads!

I was just coming to delete this --- cause it's a dupe - apologies!

but since we have comments already I thought I'd add that it also seems to have been
written by someone like George W. Bush on a cocaine weekend!

Why didn't they get Shakespeare to do it for them . . . ??

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Romeo and Juliet, he was busy wriiting it

or Henry the Firth "My kingdom for a Canyon... a really old canyon."

Oh scrap that, my kingdom for a horse!

[defendandprotect]

33. I hear he was rewriting it --- !!! Ain't history fun . . . !!!

[margotb822]

14. What about the people who live to be 900?

I think the Bible might be more of a teaching tool than a documentation of history. But, I'm a Democrat, what do I know???

[defendandprotect]

34. Well . .. look at it this way re living to 900 . . .

Though I don't recall 900.... ???

Maybe 200 . . .

Except for Mel Brooks --- 2,000 --

Anyway --- I figure, the fewer of us the longer you live --
the more of us --- the shorter life gets --

Nature gives and Nature takes back --- !!!

[DiverDave]

9. no, no, NO!

the moon scraped it out...jeebus tole me so.:hide:

[The Straight Story]

10. so, the scientists were wrong about it's age?

"10 million years older than previously thought ---"

I am sure some will disagree with em about all that.

I guess science is not as an exacting science as we first thought :)

[RedCappedBandit]

15. Hmm..

I don't think any credible scientist is going to preach about all of their conclusions being perfect. Science is a work of progress; knowledge builds upon itself.
At least there is valid evidence in the scientific world - kind of the opposite of what religion can claim.

[defendandprotect]

35. Right . . . even with math --- there was a higher concept of math which they

only figured out in the past decade ---

[quadriga]

17. Did they find those pictographs of humans riding dinosaurs?

[DemoTex]

18. Grand Canyon at 35,000 ft in a B737 a few years ago, with Crazy Leo - Man of God - as co-pilot ..

Leo looks up from his Bible and out at the Grand Canyon and then looks at me (Leo would spend most of a coast-to-coast flight frantically copying scripture to a yellow legal pad).

"See that?" sez Leo.

"See what" sez I.

"See that canyon?" asks Crazy Leo.

"Uh, Leo .. it would be real hard to miss."

"Know how old it is?" sez Crazy Leo.

"Try me," sez I.

"Not a day over 4000 years old," declares Leo. "It's all in the Book."

"Get you nose back into your Bible, Leo, and leave me alone!"

On another trip, I was working my way around a line of really bad thunderstorms over Kansas. Leo was again my co-pilot. He was scribbling scripture fast and furiously on his yellow legal pad (reading in the cockpit was against company rules, but I let Leo do it to keep him out of my hair). I was flying the airplane (again, a Boeing 737-300), navigating, tweaking the weather radar, communicating, etc.. It finally got a bit much and I needed some help from Leo.

"Leo," sez I, "God might be your co-pilot, but he's not mine! I need some damn help buddy!"

Leo retired and is a fundy preacher-man somewhere in Texas now. God bless the crazy bastard!

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Just: Wow!

That's pretty frightening, Mac!
The Professor

[hootinholler]

21. Why that flies in the face of this...

Highly researched treatise.

:evilgrin:

Hmmm, actual science vs making shit up.

-Hoot

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Why is this counterintuitive?

Wait: The western side of the canyon is the downstream end of the Colorado River, so how could it be older than the arguably more spectacular eastern side?

If you build an earthen dam, then fill it above its brim, the water will form channels (valleys) beginning at the farthest downstream point first - because that's where the velocity is. When that valley gets deep enough that there's little energy in the flowing water, the erosion creeps upstream.

[hunter]

24. This post is so foolish. The Grand Canyon doesn't exist.

Otherwise they would have written about it in the Bible.

:eyes:

[ProfessorGAC]

25. It's Got To Be In There Somewhere

I saw the canyon with my own eyes. So, it HAS to be in the Bible. Probably in some of that Bible Code stuff.
The Professor

[librechik]

27. constructed by aliens with lasers in 2000 BC

while Brontosauruses watched.

[devilgrrl]

28. 17 million years old? Who'd you hear that from? Could it be S A T A N ?

[asdjrocky]

29. "I was there, and I still have the t-shirt."

McLawn

[L. Coyote]

32. Good coverage on NPR Science Friday right now Pacific time.

A caller, a geologist from Arizona. is contending the paper is wrong.

Dr. Lukita, (sp.?) USGS retired, emeritus, I think, is the caler.

[defendandprotect]

36. By the time Bush leaves the WH, science will be a dirty word --- !!!