Question to 20 somethings (or younger) re: blue collar jobs

[LisaM]

If our manufacturing base is ever even partially restored, or the next president initiates some kind of WPA-like program to re-build our infrastructure, are these the types of jobs you would take?

I'm curious, because I was just listening to a guy on Ed Schultz talking about how people would line up for $15 per hour construction jobs with benefits. I don't actually see that happening (even if they were $25 per hour jobs). Of everyone I know in their 20s right now, I only know one who has worked construction in the summers, and he has no intention of making a career of it (not implying at all that he should).

I'm just wondering. Or, even more narrowly, have many of you done manufacturing or construction type jobs even for the summer or on vacation? Or have we come to the point where we are relying on immigrants almost exclusively to do these jobs?

[DS1]

1. I think it would be neat

I'd be interested in building wind turbines, which takes a lot more technical training, however.

[LisaM]

2. Funny, I was just reading about even one year of experience in that industry

is considered a lot, and they need people to do it.

[Cant trust em]

3. This is probably more reflective of an education divide

We are moving toward a more highly specialized technology driven economy, but since our public education system isn't exactly up to snuff there will always be room for manufacturing jobs for people with less education. Most people who have time to spend on DU probably fall in the category of higher educational attainment.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. I need to understand what you are saying.

Are you saying that the country needs plumbers and roofers because the educational system is inadequate to create a population entirely fit to serve roles in the "highly specialized technology economy"?

When reading this, I was reminded of
http://prorev.com/2008/01/john-edwards-hidden-problem.html

Me? I think that roofers are roofers because people need roofs. But I do not fall into the category of "higher educational attainment", so what do I know.

[Cant trust em]

44. The fact is that the economy is moving toward more highly specialized

service oriented jobs. Communications, marketing, web design, etc. These are jobs that typically require more specialized training or degrees. That being said, since I do not believe that our public education has been of great quality and higher education is not as affordable as we'd like it to be, there will always be people who do not have the training to do some of the jobs I spoke of. There is a pool of the American workforce that can do manufacturing or construction jobs. We do not need to outsource those jobs because we have people here to do them. I'm guessing that most people who have a PhD are not interested in doing manual labor.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Those PhD's can work at Kinko's.

The job market isn't driven by the number of people qualified to do the 9-5, enriching, climate-controlled tasks. It's driven by the work that needs doing.

The need for people to do those jobs is driven by the need for those tasks, not the number of people trained to do them. If schools turn out more english literature majors, it depresses the pay for jobs requiring advanced education in english literature... which would be the job of educating english literature students, I suppose.

As more people seek PhD's to avoid grease/mud/danger the more the people who will tolerate uncomfortable work can command. I'm okay with that.

[Cant trust em]

50. Right. The tasks that are increasing in need are...

communications, high tech fields, the green economy. That is the work that needs doing, in general. That is the trend that the job market is showing. There will always be a market for plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. But manufacturing in factories, textile plants, etc. is dwindling. I'm not really worried about having a glut of higher education, but it wouldn't be too terrible of a thing for us to have an ultra educated society where the minimum standard of achievement was a college degree.

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. It is wasteful to purchase specialized education for a skill you will be unable to apply.

I've worked in engineering, technology, construction and heavy machinery.

In my experience, there's a glut of people seeking enriching work, and employers are weeding out the employees by requiring ever higher levels of education to attain those jobs.

I have a friend who just turned 50. She has the equivalent of a masters in education. She's qualified to teach k-8. She wants to teach preschool, which she is currently doing on a substitute basis. The school district requires an additional 2 years in special education ($30k) to become permanent in the job that she's currently doing ... to make what I make working part time from home as a steel detailer.

She doesn't want to teach kindergarten because "she really likes the little kids"

Increasingly, I see college as a lifestyle purchase.

An ultra educated society requires an equal proportion of plumbers as a poorly-educated one. The plumbers are the ones who profit from a glut of white collar workers.

[Cant trust em]

56. I don't see it as a waste of skill

I think that by having people who are educated in sciences, art, history, mathematics gives our culture a boost of creatvity and aptitude that will spark innovations that we've never seen before. This can create new fields and markets in which to apply those skills. I don't see any downside to hightening the standards in education. In my view, education is more just obtaining skills necessary to do a job. It's an investment in creativity.

[pitohui]

77. and yet it is a waste and think of all the broken hearts

i used to talk to people all the time about this issue and it was truly distressing to realize how many people waiting tables have master's degrees and how many broken dreams, not to mention how many huge debts caused by student loans, are caused by this push toward education

i finally just stopped talking to people about their education, it was too depressing unless i knew that they were well employed

if education didn't just cut the heart out of your finances for a decade, it might be different, but to lose your youth AND to be terribly in debt AND to learn that your expensive education is useless...it's cruel

"an investment in creativity" indeed! no, it's a theft of financial resources from people who don't even realize that most of them can never have their dream, even a small dream

the people looking to be actors and writers and film directors realize that most of them are destined to fail, but the people getting MBA's and masters of fine arts? who is telling them the truth about their future?

as long as education costs so much money, we have to stop glamorizing it and give people a way to make more realistic choices

there should only be so many people accepted into certain programs, how many for instance history or archeology or marine biology programs does one country need if we don't intend to hire these people -- if we are just stealing their youth and their dollars from them for nothing

[Cant trust em]

83. If your argument is that education is too expensive, then I agree

or perhaps you are saying that we have a glut in liberal arts degrees, which I would also agree with. I think that if your friends who have no jobs and broken hearts would have picked engineering or graphic design as their majors then they would likely have jobs. There is a massive market of jobs that require higher education that are still not being filled. It is true that there aren't a lot of jobs that require a master's degree in English literature.

[Breeze54]

74. Those jobs are dwindling due to NAFTA and the like and

not everyone is college material.

[slampoet]

52. That is BS. It's because there are no apprenticeships anymore.Companies pass training off to workers

And the workers have to borrow money from the government in student loans and then have to pay interest when the Companies are the ones getting the benefits. These companies then use their savings to lobby the government to pay less taxes and to give our jobs to people from countries where the companies DO train their own employees.




Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Japan, all these countries have apprenticeship programs.

There you go to school to get an education and then you hook up with a company that makes an investment in HUMAN RESOURCES (i.e. you and your training).

Does anyone here recall when Human Resources used to mean an economic resource and not just a department?




What I see in the USA is that there are job listings here that ask for you to be trained in using some software that the Company who is hiring Wrote! I have even seem Microsoft ask for 3 years or experience using a program that has been out for only 6 months!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Exactly right.

The money spent maximizing H1-b visas should be spent educating US workers to do those "shortage" jobs.

[Wabbajack_]

90. "I have even seen Microsoft ask for 3 years or experience using

a program that has been out for only 6 months!!"

Lmao! Typical corporate shit.

[Breeze54]

73. What a load....

I've worked in manufacturing next to people with PHd's.

I've worked in manufacturing with a college degree.

And the public schools aren't as bad as bush makes them out to be at all.

The RW spew that shit and deny them money to fund their faith based charter schools.

It's a crock of shit!

[Warpy]

4. When I was a 20 something I found I preferred physical work

to sitting in an office all day, chained to a phone and a desk. I did dozens of different jobs and found the ones that had a beginning and an end with an observable result to be the most satisfying.

I'm one of the people who literally could have done anything. I went into nursing in my 30s and worked at it until my body finally gave out. I just had to keep moving or I'd go nuts.

There will always be people who prefer physically demanding jobs. There are enough jobs out there that are also mentally challenging enough to make them attractive to people who are academically successful.

[Iris]

14. That's what I was just thinking.

If physically demanding jobs are well-paying and not looked down on, I'm sure plenty of people would do them.

My husband is a carpenter and loves building things. But he has to call himself a "contractor" in order to do the work he loves; othewise, people think he's just unskilled. Stupid, no?

[NashVegas]

36. My Dad Made Me Promise Him I'd Never Take a "Factory" Job

And I readily told him exactly what he wanted to hear. No freaking way did I want to work in one of those places!

Now, I'm part of the so-called "Creative class" and understand something my father didn't: factory jobs take many forms, some you would never suspect. Just because your hands aren't getting dirty, doesn't mean you're anything more than a cog.

One of the most interesting things I ever saw as a young adult was when a man who owned the main garbage removal business in my town pulled a three-inch wad of $20s out of his pocket. I'm not there anymore, but it's a safe bet his business has been purchased or driven out by BFI ...

[Warpy]

84. I did concert and club lighting in the 60s

and even that turned into a JOB.

Familiarity breeds boredom. You might as well be bored in something that pays.

There's money in garbage, especially if you're the boss.

[sandnsea]

5. The ones I know would

And $25 hr would get a lot of adult men pretty excited. Where do you live that you think $52,000 a year is chump change?

[LisaM]

6. Well, I live in Seattle, which is very expensive, but I don't think 52K is chump change

I originally put $15 per hour, but tried to put in a little bit of range.

[northzax]

13. it's actually more like $48k

once you take into account vacation and holidays. just sayin'.

[riderinthestorm]

24. I asked that question a while back and got no response either. $52K is crap?!

I was asking about it since the teachers/cops/firemen etc in my area AVERAGE $55k/year. The thread I was on was talking about how teachers/cops/firemen etc are paid "poverty" wages....

I dunno, but that seems a pretty good salary to me. I know I live in a high end area but 20 minutes down the road (less than 10 miles), the COL is probably half what it is in my town.

I wonder if part of the problem for 20 somethings and labor type jobs, is that their expectations are skewed. They believe everyone is making $100k plus for a 35 hour work week with magnificent bennies, when in reality it's just not like that out there.

Is there some kind of stigma about manual labor??!! I wonder. I'm a farmer - definitely manual labor here and I cannot find an American teen to do chores after school and on weekends for $10/hour. No way. My kids work with me and actually enjoy it so they aren't representative (my oldest is 20) but obviously their stake in the manual labor is a bit different than just an employee.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. "Is there some kind of stigma about manual labor?"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Uh, yeah.

I love my fellow liberals, but if you can't see it here, you can't see.

[riderinthestorm]

32. LOL!

Fine, so I'm a dork. I know DU is it's own little liberal cocoon and if you're here, you're smart and informed which is not to say that blue collar workers in general are NOT.

But in my defense, I was posing it as a theoretical out in the RW.

[toadzilla]

7. I live in Baltimore, you bet they would be lining up.

around %40 of the residents of my city live below the poverty line. its a blue collar city with no more blue collar jobs. there is just no work here for many many people.

[Bluzmann57]

8. Ok ok I have to ask

Why don't you see it happening that people won't line up for $15/hr. jobs with benefits? Are you all lazy? Or do you all feel like you are just too good for jobs like that? I'm 50, work in a job like that, and genuinely want to know. See, us older folks won't work forever, we are either going to retire or die. Then our jobs will have to be filled somehow. And fyi, in certain regions in the country, like this one, a $15/hr job with benefits is pretty good. Now I'm sorry if I come across as a bitter old man, but the timbre of the post leaves me wondering, what is going to become of this country if young people refuse to work these types of jobs?

[ThomWV]

9. Think more along the lines of if there were factory jobs, mind numbing eternities of unfathomable

drudgery all in the hope that you go unnoticed until the darkness.

Sure! Where do I sign up?

[MADem]

11. Robots do much of that repetitive factory work nowadays....

The hard labor jobs that younger (and frankly, less fit) people won't take require both strength AND a bit of "decision point" activity throughout the workday.

[ThomWV]

29. And the people who used to do them are jobless. What have we accomplished?

We have pleased the robots, their makers, and their owners. Quite an accomplishment.

[MADem]

33. They become robot repairmen, robot salesmen, robot manufacturers.

I don't buy your argument. Sorry.

There's nothing wrong with inventing machines to do what people do not WANT to do. "Make Work" is stupid, and denies human intelligence. If you think ANYONE grows up wanting to screw in a thousand screws on an assembly line all friken day, you need to rethink. NO ONE sees themself, when they're playing the "What do I want to be when I grow up?" spending a career doing that kind of shit work.

What's needed is transition training, to reintegrate displaced workers into new industries. And it needs to be serious, widespread, and well funded--a WPA type deal, that gives people a way to earn/survive while they learn. The looming disaster of global warming is also an opportunity for leadership industries--the question is, will we seize it?

[kcwayne]

37. No they don't, do the math

When you replace 500 workers with 50 machines, you don't need 500 repairmen, or even 50.
I am not arguing on behalf of not innovating, but economies do not operate as a zero sum game. There are going to be losers, and the first losers are those least able to adapt. The second round of losers are those able to adapt, but there are no replacement opportunities to absorb them.

Automation has accelerated the movement of technologies out of the US. 30 years ago, I worked on setting up a manufacturing plant in Mexico for GE. We were moving high manual labor content jobs to that plant to reduce labor content in the products we built. The biggest problem we faced was the quality of the products brought back, because it was more difficult to communicate with and train Mexican workers. Jack Welch came through our operation and said close it, the ROI wasn't there.

Once those same processes could be more automated, the plants were reopened, and the flood of jobs from the US was 10 times more. Not only could we reduce labor content through automation, we could move the whole shebang into a third world country without the previous concerns for training and communications, with lower insurance costs, lower building/land costs, limited government regulation, no need to invest in waste and pollution management, etc, etc.

Of course, now that move has been redirected into even lower cost third world countries and the race to the bottom is accelerating.

So unless those manufacturing workers being displaced by machines were willing to move to Viet Nam and work for $1.15 a day as robot repair techs, assuming they could beat out the competition for those jobs, they were still unemployed, or working in service related jobs back home for near minimum wage.

[MADem]

59. Well, there's always nursing and teaching, there aren't enough of those about.

Once upon a time, there were tons of 'em. Dime a dozen. And they are still sorely needed.

And try finding a plumber or an electrician when you need one in some markets.

I don't think there are "losers" if the ones who lose their jobs are retrained. A It doesn't have to be in the same precise line of work, either. And the replacement opportunities are only limited by the creativity of societies, IMO. In the big picture, over time, there aren't "losers" though in the short term individuals are certainly affected.

A hundred years ago, there were no computer repairmen, computer salesmen, video rental stores, iPod or cellphone sales...but you could find work selling buggy whips. Hell, there were no cable or satellite installers either.

As an example,if we have to mine coal, that's a great job for a robot rather than risking human lives--perhaps the future might see coal miners who sit in front of computers, controlling robots remotely so that the task can be done intelligently, with a human reacting to changing environments, but no one ends up dead at the bottom of a mine shaft.

In time, these Newly Industrialized Countries are going to be establishment industrialized countries, and they'll be competing with other countries for the cheap jobs. Eventually, as time goes on, we WILL run out of poor folk to exploit, and you'll be hard put to find anyone willing to do shit work. That's when those robots will be most needed, and we'll probably see jobs cropping up that we can't even imagine would exist nowadays.

[kcwayne]

61. You have never worked around people that do manual labor

If you had, you would realize that retraining for teaching and nursing positions, or virtually any other skilled job is not a possibility for a very large segment of them.

And during the time it takes for Newly Industrialized Countries to ramp up their economies and create this utopian free trade society, the losers on the displacement front long ago died. When you live week to week, paycheck to paycheck, and need to make enough money to buy food and shelter, raising yourself into a new standard of living through retraining is a pipe dream.

[MADem]

93. Well, I have. Your erroneous declaration notwithstanding.

There are an awful lot of "manual labor" postions in the military, doncha know. Not everyone is sitting at a computer display in an air conditioned workspace.

Retraining CAN be difficult, which is why I think the "gubmint" oughta get involved. If they provided retraining in conjunction with unemployment support, it can work. It just takes will.

For example, why must working towards a nursing degree be a full-time endeavor? Why can't the potential nurse start out doing orderly work, taking courses part time, getting OJT credit, and earning-while-learning? Then, as they progress, the salary goes up, the job responsibilities go up as well. Apprenticeship--it's worked for THOUSANDS of years....why can't we try it? Same way with teaching--get paid as a classroom assistant, take courses part time, get certified, and bingo--you're in the job having already had OJT.

It's way too easy to find reasons why things cannot be done. It's a bit more of a challenge to see the big picture and take the long view. But it can be done, and should be done.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Why is "blue collar"

a) construction
b) repetitive factory work?

There is a huge segment of the blue collar labor market that is neither, and in fact, there is very little of that repetitive factory manufacturing that is still done here.

But besides, a person who sells the hours of their life to support their family is engaged in a moral purpose.

People who insist in a comfortable, personally-enriching career should be unsurprised that it pays less.

[MADem]

34. Those industries are simply one of many subsets of blue collar.

You've got pink collar, too, the servants of the white collar types, because it's mostly women who do it.

We need more GREEN collar jobs.

[Theres-a]

39. I'm garlic and onion collar.

:9

[MADem]

94. Ooooooh, a vegetable omelet please, made with egg beaters, and a side of homemade toast, please? NT

[Theres-a]

38. Exactly.

I've worked in restaurants for decades,and have benefits for the first time in 10 years. The jobs a job,doesn't pay as much as waitressing(blue collar?) but there's not many benefits for waiters,and the tips ain't what they used to be.

I appreciate your moral purpose comment. Work's work,not happy-fun-glamour-time. We don't need to be miserable,but it is "work". It is a necessity for the currency to do what we really enjoy,the rest of the time.;)

[DireStrike]

10. If there's money in it, I might do it.

I'd rather do something else. Lighter jobs usually pay more.

Right now I'm working stock at a large electronics store. It can get pretty physical with moving TVs around and whatnot. I took the job because it payed better than my previous job, and I got hired quickly without being forced to jump through ridiculous hoops and sell myself like a streetwalker. Honestly, it seems like employers for lighter jobs just hate job applicants by default.

[tired]

12. Absolutley I would!

I am behind a desk all day and would love to be outside. But the question is, are companies willing to pay $15-$25 an hour when they can get someone else to do it for $8. The way i look at it is, I need to eat and $8 an hour just doesn't cut it. The cost of living continues to rise while wages barely budge and people just cant keep up.

[conflictgirl]

15. Around here people would line up for those jobs

I'm 34, but I have a lot of friends and relatives in their 20s. Some people I know would prefer more intellectual type work, but around here I know many people - of any age - would line up for that kind of work. Hell, I graduated in August magna cum laude with my BA in sociology - admittedly not the most marketable major, but surely enough that you'd think I could at least get retail or office work - and cannot get hired ANYWHERE. I applied for seasonal retail jobs before Christmas at almost 20 places and not a single one even called me back.

My husband's 21-year-old cousin got an interview for p/t work at Barnes & Noble and was all excited and confident about it, until he realized that there would be a total of 3 interviews and he was competing against more than 100 people!

When it's bad enough that it's that competitive to get a minimum wage job, I think people would be knocking each other over for $15/hour jobs, let alone $25. Aldi has a job fair on Friday and are advertising for cashiers and it pays $10.50/hr with benefits...I think I'll go, but I've been told to expect a crowd and a several-hour wait.

[Pakhet]

16. I'm in my 40's and I would do it

[Akoto]

17. I'm 23, and ...

My education is not in the field of construction/manufacturing. So, no, I probably would not unless I had a financial need.

That doesn't mean I don't see the value of getting those jobs back, though! My grandfather worked as a mechanic for an automotive company when he was still alive. Managed to buy a house on that job alone, and they took care of him through retirement and up until the day he died.

[Romulox]

18. I really bristle at this sort of "they won't do the work" rhetoric

It has no basis in fact, and it's simply more anti-worker rhetoric.

From today's Detroit News:

$14 per hour: The new automotive dream job

Tuesday, February 26, 2008


The two-tier wage system being put in place for thousands of United Auto Workers often sounds like a step down in an industry where hourly wages started near $30 an hour. But people are clamoring to join the $14-an-hour work force even as veteran autoworkers scoff at the notion and 3,650 American Axle workers strike to avoid the lower wage.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080226/AUTO01/802260359

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. The News is twisting the hell out of that...

It's $14/hour plus higher copays, plus cut health benefits in general. What is a man/woman with a mortgage on a house they bought 10 years ago supposed to do when the majority of their paycheck will go towards health insurance. They will lose a house, a modest house, that was within their range when they purchased it. I appraise them every week (for bank foreclosures and investment resales) and it makes me sick. It is a third of what they were making wages + bennies. That's what it is.

[sergeiAK]

19. I have done many of those

Summer in HS, I worked construction. Summer in college, worked in a pool products factory/warehouse. Co-op job in college, computer products factory (computer engineering major).

Construction: $8/hr no benefits.
Warehouse: $8.35-$9.75/hr few benefits after 6 months on the job.
Current factory: $22/hr, good benefits if I sign on full time. Not sure this counts, as I'd be an engineer, doing test design and verification, rather than just assembly line work. Most of our workers (paid $14-30/hr, with a mediocre benefits package) are Americans.

[onethatcares]

20. I'm 57 and finally getting out of the trades, kinda

I've built alot of things, houses, apartments, kitchens, dormers, remodels, additions, doghouses, cathouses. and never thought I'd stay in construction as long as I have. 35 years almost. I've worked with a bunch of different people, learned a lot of math, developed an eye for style and use. It sure beat shuffling paper.

We need kids, 20 and up to get into the trades, if for no other reason than to realize how everything fits/

[NashVegas]

45. "Learned a Lot of Math"

Funny how many people with MBAs have no problem-solving skills, isn't it?

[dysfunctional press]

21. i used to do construction work, and loved it- but i would NEVER work in a factory.

actually, i have worked in a few factories- but only as a construction worker. i could never be an employee working in a factory- at least not a large one with lots of noisy machinery...i wouldn't mind a smaller, mostly non-automated type of environment- depending on the job. i wouldn't be any good at just constantly making the same part, over and over and over- it would drive me nuts. i need some variety.

[Thothmes]

68. Amen

Didn't do construction work. I set chokers for a gypo logging company. Cold day in hell before I would work in a saw mill or plywood mill. Did like working in the woods though.

[Breeze54]

75. Some of my best jobs were in factories. The people were awesome.

The repetitiveness wasn't loved but the people were and the paychecks.

[dysfunctional press]

79. there were plenty of crappy/cold days where i did kinda wish i was working indoors...

but the only repetetive-type job i can think of that i might enjoy would be porn actor...hetero porn actor.

[El Pinko]

23. Electricians, plumbers, mechanics, lots of people in trades are fairly well-paid...

...in fact a lot of them are making much better money than the guys who got MA's in English lit who are working at Kinko's.

I disagree that people wouldn't want one of those jobs. If I had the skills, I'd go for the $25/hr job.

The $15/hr job wouldn't be worth me leaving my present job, but would be a tiny pay increase for me...

[BreweryYardRat]

25. Manufacturing? Maybe, although I wouldn't prefer it.

I can't really work retail (short temper), so it's manufacturing, office jobs, or (ideally) making a living off writing for me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. The trades I know which are in highest demand right now are

1) certified welder
2) experienced machinist
3) hydraulic mechanic, especially one that can rebuild hydraulic motors and pumps
4) diesel mechanic
5) ASE certified auto mechanic

I know a hydraulic mechanic who made six figures last year.

If you are smart, able to become proficient at a trade and don't mind getting dirty and/or cold there is work.

"Blue collar" isn't simply construction.

[DainBramaged]

41. Kids want to work at the mall, or cool sales jobs, or Internet related jobs

Get their hands dirty? THAT is the reason the trades are going to shit. Kids dont have the desire to get dirty any more. I see it every day when we advertise for kids to apprentice starting as shop cleaners, gophers, even file clerks or just lot people. All we get are illegals or retired folks who can't do the physical labor, and the starting wage is $9 an hour with benefits after 60 days.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. It's not all bad.

When your shop has to pay more for labor, the kids with the cool sales jobs will have to pay more to get their cars fixed.

Consider it a cool tax. When I hear anyone in the Bay Area or Puget Sound complaining about how much it costs for lawn care or plumbing, I smile quietly to myself.

[spooky3]

27. I'm not a 20 something but I think ANY job that pays a truly living

wage with benefits such as retirement, sick leave, etc. would attract as many people as employers need.

The problem is not the unwillingness of Americans to work; it's that they can't afford to live on what some employers, who are getting very wealthy, want to pay. I am obviously not talking here about the 3 or 4 person retail shop, which can't afford to pay as much. I've had contractors in my house who live VERY comfortably but pay their workers who are actually doing the work $10 per hour, and I live in a very expensive city. These workers have to live with 3 or 4 other similar workers in small houses in undesirable neighborhoods to make it.

[Indy Lurker]

35. depends if you are talking about skilled or unskilled labor

I manage a manufacturing plant in the Chicago Suburbs, and hire all kinds of people.

Skilled individuals, such as plumbers, and electricians will run $20-25/hr plus benefits

Unskilled individuals (with legal documentation), who are mostly 1st or second generation Mexican immigrants start at $9-10/hr. plus benefits they can get to the $13-15 /hr range after several years.

Benefits are equivalent to about $3/ hr

Our workforce is 85% unskilled labor.

The unskilled individuals have limited reading and writing and English skills, even the individuals who grew up in the area, and graduated from the local high school.


Unskilled individuals that I assume do not have proper documentation can also be hired from a temp agency for around $10 per hour (the temp agency pays minimum wage &$7.50 in IL) They have little to no English skills.


Where I see a void is in the $14-20/hr range, I need individuals with good reading, writing and math skills who want to work in a noisy, dirty factory, in an industry that is shrinking. I'm not finding a lot of takers.

And before anyone complains about what we pay, we are competing against factories in Kentucky, Mexico, and India. Even though out raw materials have gone up 30% in last last 2 years, we have not been able to raise prices to our customers.

I think the biggest drawback to manufacturing, is the shrinking job base, no one want to go into an industry that is shrinking.

[lumberjack_jeff]

51. One of the good things about "blue collar"

... is that your trade is not inherently tied to your industry.

The welders in your factory can work in construction. The Machinists in your factory can move to another industrial business.

My kids are 15 and 18. If they want to go into the trades, they have my blessing. In fact, I'd be willing to invest on their behalf the money I would have otherwise spent on a 4-year degree. $50k can make a nice house down-payment.

I know that in 10 years, they'd have more net worth if they take the blue-collar track.

Don't mean to sound cavalier, but that which makes your job challenging improves the earning potential for workers. I'm fer it.

[kimmylavin]

40. My husband has a degree in Marine Biology.

Yet he works as a grip (set construction) in Hollywood.
Why?

Because with his degree, he'd just have to pay for another degree in order to make $50,000 or so a year.
As a grip, he makes over $31/hour, with lots of overtime, and he's in a union, providing us with one of the best healthcare plans in the country.

Plus, he gets to work with his hands, which he loves...
Nothing wrong with well-paid "blue-collar" work.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

42. People certainly would

15-25$ an hour with benes is close to 50K a year! that would mean a two earner family would be making 100K!

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. Do you know any couples who both drive a truck?

Or are electricians or welders?

Blue-collar jobs are not usually very family-friendly. That's the other downside.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

54. Yes I know of families where both partners are blue collar workers

Its actually one of the more family friendly career types once the kids are old enough for school. But even in the event that you did not want both to work on road construction a single earner bringing in 50K could free up the other to work part time or if they wanted to live very tightly not at all..

[Rosemary2205]

64. HUH???

Pretty much everyone in my family, on both sides, and a good 60% of the folks who live in the same county as me are blue collar hourly workers. Those who are married and definitely his and hers blue collar.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Okay, YMMV

In my experience, couples tend to work dissimilar jobs. He's a commercial fisherman, she is a paraeducator. He's a welder, she's a bus driver. He's a millworker, she's a dental hygenist.

I guess by some definitions bus driver, paraeducator and dental hygenist are blue collar jobs, (hourly wage job isn't a good working definition of blue collar, imho) but they're not closely aligned to the spirit of the OP, because they aren't careers that people are avoiding.

The point of the previous poster is that if both members of a couple work "$25/hr blue collar jobs" their family income would be $100k/year. And although that might be true in theory, it is my experience that one working parent will choose a career that is more compatible with parenting than logging, fishing, plumbing, millwork, welding and diesel mechanics are.

[BluePatriot]

43. *shrug*

I think a lot of young men would enjoy it if they felt like they had a chance to earn good wages/bennies and progress on some sort of career track. A lot of my guy friends feel stifled by office or retail jobs and don't have the money/desire to get more education, but feel stuck. They'd line up for a cool "green collar" building program.

[slampoet]

47. I have a Degree and am just under 40. $15 is the most I've ever earned on a job to start.

and that was only three years of the dotcom boom out of the 22+ years I have been working. I didn't earn that at my last job even though i was asked to know things that require 10+ years of study in some cases.



Adjusted for inflation my Father, Mother, Grand Father and Great Grandfather had all been earning the equivalent of $15 per hour for at least 8 years by the time they were my age and that even counts time spent in the Great Depression and as an immigrant from the old country.

In Fact I Held the EXACT same job at the EXACT same factory that my Great Grandfather did for a while but i was paid only 70% of what he was and without benefits. WHY? Because i was hired as a temp. When i was offered the position as permanent i asked for what he had been given and was told I was off base and out of line.

[Rosemary2205]

62. What is your degree?

And who let you spend half a fortune and all that blood sweat and tears to earn a useless degree?

I feel for you.

[slampoet]

81. I don't have a useless degree. I could teach with my degree. This is EVERYONE in my generation

who wasn't born with all the advantages and had to work their way through school.

I don't know ANYBODY under 40 who is earing more than their parents did in lifetime income totals.


This Also includes Dot.com money

[Rosemary2205]

86. I must have misunderstood your post

I thought you were saying that even with a degree you were only making $15 a hour.

Sorry about that and thanks for clarifying. I was truly horrified to think someone went through all that and is working hourly

[slampoet]

87. Yes I am saying that I have only made $15 an hour to start.

And last i looked teachers started at almost less than $13 in even the best of areas.


This is the real economic reality for my generation.



How Old are you that you don't see this happening in your world? Do you live in the US?

[durutti]

57. I would -- and I'm college-educated.

Outside of a small (and shrinking) number of fields, decent jobs are hard to come by for young people.

[blues90]

58. When I was 20 I would go for the blue collar jobs

I worked alot of them , hrd work as a carpenter working with my father who built custom homes , just rhe two of use and I hated working with my father . I worked for bell telephone in the 60's climbing poles and installing telephones . I tried many sorts of jobs indoors working for western electric as a draftsman also in the 60's and as a draftman for robert shaw controls but being stuck indoors was difficult for me .

I even worked construction as a brick laboror in the 70's hard work and again I working in gas stations and ford dealers as a tech . I pumped gas and was a postal carrier .

I even worked constuction as carpenter in fl in 1980 at 31 again hard work .

I think america has turned to immigrants for most all of the labor jobs and has for quite some time .

When I did these jobs there were some blacks and a few hispanics but mostly white workers even in 1980 , I worked in horrid factories and there were plenty of white faces there too as well as some hispanics .

Without a labor base open to all we will surely lose society and jobs for all age's and race. I can tell you one thing , out in the blue collar working world color was never an issue because all of us were in the same boat and worked together .

I can understand why many youths would avoid manual labor jobs these days . They are now low pay and a race for the finish for the owner profit so you have to be young and fit and used to hard work . They are now dead end jobs , many always were , many people years ago made a good living in the trades . We did have unions then , not in Florida but in ILL .

It's a shame because not everyone can afford college and many don't do well in school but are good with their hands as well as their minds .

Who knows , the entire job situation has turned to complete shit and almost every worker is never secure any longer , no one cares or gives a shit these days .

[Rosemary2205]

60. Manual labor is for people too uneducated to do anything else.

I know that sounds harsh - it is. Manual labor jobs for a lifetime usually leaves a person used up too young, and without financial stability when they are too used up to earn income. Every single person I know who worked a manual labor job for a lifetime - whether it was minimum wage, or UAW union bennies up the wazoo - they all end up disabled too young. The union guys fair a little better, obviously, but body damage is body damage. They did it because they did not see any better options. Higher education was unobtainable for whatever reason - or employment options near their family were too limited. People don't rip their arms up swinging a hammer for 50 years because they love the pain - they do it because it keeps a roof over their head and food in their bellies.

If someone is going to earn 25-50 Thou a year I would hope they could do so in way that won't leave them crippled up, blind, deaf, cancer ridden, etc etc ad nauseum.

The folks who have lost the manufacturing jobs have moved on. Mostly. Few of them miss the JOB - they miss THE WAGES.

THE ISSUE IS WAGES ------- NOT JOBS!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. No.

I know lots of people in the trades who like their job - they don't want to be chained to a desk.

It is true that much blue collar work is far too punishing and dangerous. It should pay twice what it does in recognition of that.

[Breeze54]

76. Like you'd even know! Stop talking out of your ass!

"If someone is going to earn 25-50 Thou a year I would hope they could do so in way
that won't leave them crippled up, blind, deaf, cancer ridden, etc etc ad nauseum."

:grr:

You are soooooo clueless.

[Rosemary2205]

80. LOL

I guess you took me off ignore. :hi:

I come from a long line of blue collar. I was blue collar until I became paralyzed and had to go to desk work. I know you are aware worker's comp and OSHA weren't created because accountants and lawyer were getting beat up on the job.... Factory work, coal miners, construction crews, waitresses - this is what put a roof over my head and food on my table all my life. I know a lot of blue collar people who say they like what they do, but most of them would quit their jobs in a heartbeat if they hit the lottery. They do it for the income, not love of the work. Nothing you say will ever convince me that people WANT to be 60 yr old and have trouble getting dressed every morning because their job for the last 45 years tore up their back. I can accept not everyone is made for office work - of course not - but you'll never convince me people WANT jobs that will leave them crippled up way too young.

[Breeze54]

63. They aren't working the jobs because they aren't there!

The people getting those jobs are 'visitors'. No one's 'relying' on the immigrants to do these jobs!!!

Except for the greedy house contractors that hire them, without any benefits, for low wages. :grr:

[otherlander]

66. I would for a few years

but eventually I want to be a journalist.

[Thothmes]

69. Here in Southeast Virginia

Hundreds of young people compete for the chance to learn skilled trades at the Northrup Grumman Shipyard at Newport News.

[rucky]

70. Where do you live?

In Ohio, they'll be lining up around the block.

[jmm]

71. That would be good for people just looking for jobs but

in terms of viable career options workers need to be offered proper training and a sense of security in manufacturing or construction type fields. I know plenty of people that wouldn't consider doing manual labor for the summer but would line up to do it if their company took care of them and they didn't have to worry about being in an insecure industry.

I have a cousin who turned 21 this week that called me this past summer excited because he had gotten into a union and was promised a job with a successful local construction company. He's in college part time and I know he wants to continue but he realizes he could have a good future doing that and an education would give him added advancement options.

[Cabcere]

72. I have back problems, so that might be a limitation

but I'm an anthropology major, so I'm thinking pretty much anything that will keep me off the streets. :( :shrug:

[margotb822]

78. Not me personally

I know many people who serve one enlistment in the military and need jobs when they get out. They are skilled and disciplined workers, but do not have a college degree. (And with NCLB, there will be many more people unprepared for college that will need jobs).

[BigDaddy44]

82. Its hard to send plumbing jobs to India

[NeedleCast]

85. I've worked construction

In Texas. In the summer. It wasn't bad as a kid. It paid fairly well and didn't require much actual work and I got to be outside all day with some of my buddies. As an adult, I'm not sure I'd find it as attractive.

However, that being said, I have two friends who both left moderately well paying (25-35/hr) white collar jobs in the IT field. One become an welder. The other is now a park ranger. Both of them just said they were fed up with office bullshit and wanted to do something else.

[readmoreoften]

88. My girlfriend works in carpet cleaning, restoration, and repair. She's 28.

I used to do clothes sorting of donation clothes and appliances. Pulling garbage bags full of insects off a 7 foot high pile just to have a TV come crashing down on my head for $3.35 an hour. I also know a 20-something carpenter and two welders. All lesbians though.

Most people I know would kill for a $15 an hour job. Not college kids though. But blue collar kids, yeah.

[Chisox08]

89. I would jump on it

I'm 25 and a college student struggling to find money to afford college without have a student loan debt larger than my parent mortgage. Anything beats the $7 an hour job I have now. Belive me I would leave my current dead-end job and learn whatever it took to one of the work program jobs that would $15 per hou with benifits. I know people that has been out of work for over 2 years and the would jump on those jobs in a heartbeat.
My problem with the sayinig that Immigrants are doing jobs that Americans won't do is that the statement is completly false. To be more accurate there are jobs that Americans can not afford to take. I can't afford to live off of what I make today, if it wasn't for my parents and grandparents i would be out on the street.

[NuttyFluffers]

91. if it was regular hours with a reasonable commute, i'd do it.

but too often blue collar jobs i've done (minor sub-contracted technician) was all about irregular hours and far flung locations. one day i'd work 11 hours, another 1.5 hours, with *maybe* an averaging out over 20+ hours a week. and atop that i'd travel anywhere from 5 miles away to over 50 for any job. factoring in outrageous commutes and wear-n-tear on my car, and inconsistent hours, to speak nothing of no benefits, it was not worth the toll on my knees and other joints.

so yeah, as long as it isn't some crazy "migrant work" situation like california does for farm work and certain IT i'd reconsider it. until then i know there's a better way to seek a long term living. we kick our blue collar base around too much; if we had reasonable expectations with reasonable rewards it'd be a huge boon to our economy.

[RadioactiveCarrot]

92. This 20 year old would.

I'd just need to actually get to a doctor to get my medical situation cleared up first.
Universal healthcare...mmm. Sure would be tasty.

But yeah, that 'only immigrants will take those jobs' stuff isn't necessarily true.
15$ an hour plus benefits would be great right now, actually.