NIU shooter's drugs: Prozac, Ambien, and Xanax

[Bozita]

Breaking on CNN.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Too bad he stopped using them.

Maybe this could have been prevented.

[pitohui]

3. um, maybe that's true of the prozac -- not the ambien

ambien is a sleeping pill and if you keep use it regularly instead of occasionally, BIG TIME trouble

it is possible on ambien to do things in a dream state and not know that you are even doing them, in fact, how sure are we that he was able to stop taking the ambien?

completely different from a drug being taken to control depression like prozac -- SSRI's do need to be monitored and tapered

[AikidoSoul]

58. There are lots of problems with psch drugs, including Prozac

but certainly not limited to that one.

My best, brightest and funniest brother committed suicide after taking Prozac for only two weeks. His personality
completely changed -- I mean totally.

That was in 1985. God rest his dear soul.

Here's an article on psch drugs just sent to me today by a psychiatrist FED UP with the drugging of psych patients:

http://www.naturalnews.com/z022656.html

Illinois Shooter was Treated with Psych Meds Prior to Shooting Rampage
by Mike Adams

(NaturalNews) It comes as no surprise to anyone who's been following school shootings all the way back to the Colombine High massacre in Colorado: Every young, male shooter that has gone on a killing spree in the United States also has a history of treatment with psychotropic drugs -- typically SSRI antidepressants. These shootings have three things in common: 1) The shooters are young males. 2) The shooters exhibit a mind-numbed disconnect with reality. 3) The shooters have a history of taking psychiatric medications.

This latest shooting by 27-year-old Stephen Kazmierczak shares the same three factors. Stephen was considered a "normal, undistressed person," according to press reports. He was considered "an outstanding student" and even received a Dean's Award for outstanding work in sociology. So what happened to Stephen's brain that caused him to snap and open fire on students in a college classroom?


Psych meds make good people do bad things
Psychiatric medications, of course, are well known to cause extremely violent thoughts and behavior in young males. This is actually acknowledged by the FDA and is found in the black-box warnings printed on the packaging for such drugs. In Europe, the prescribing of many such drugs to children and teens is actually illegal. But in the United States, where psychiatric medications have become the "new medicine" for American youth, nobody seems to pay attention to the simple fact that every school shooting we've seen in the last decade has been committed by a young male with a history of treatment with psychiatric medications.

The mainstream media, of course, is trying to spin the story by claiming Stephen snapped because he stopped taking his medications. MSM headlines proclaim, "Illinois Shooter Stopped Taking His Medications." What these headlines fail to communicate is the fact that psychiatric drugs cause long-term disruptions in the brain which lead to a strong dissociation with reality. These young, male shooters hardly even know they're in the real world anymore. They no longer see their fellow classmates as human beings, but rather as lifeless objects to be used for target practice. For those people taking psychiatric medications, there's even a strong dissociation with one's own life, as evidenced by the repeated willingness of these shooters to ultimately turn their guns on themselves.

These are precisely the kinds of things acted out by people who take psych medications: Disconnection with reality, disconnection with self, and disconnection with others. Modern psychiatric medicine is in the business of taking people who feel depressed and chemically lobotomizing their brains so they feel nothing. Once they feel nothing, there's nothing stopping them from unloading on fellow human beings with firearms. They no longer feel empathy or compassion. Nothing matters anymore. This is strongly characteristic of the well-documented side effects of psychiatric medications.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Illinois shooter's history of taking psychiatric medications was the primary cause of his violent behavior. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if every single shooter in recent memory was treated with psych meds, and if those same psych meds are well known to cause violent thoughts and suicidal behavior, it's fairly obvious that the chemicals are the most likely cause of the behavioral problems. It's also worth noting that before children were prescribed such medications in America, school shootings were virtually unheard of. It was only after psychiatric medicine started targeting young people with mind-altering medications that we witnessed this explosion in violence.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[IsItJustMe]

68. Sorry about your brother. I think these drugs do sometimes help people, but more often that not, a

person would be better off to deal with the mental condition without meds, come hell or high water.

I think some of these meds are useful in a very short term situation. Lets say that a person has just gone through a very traumatic experience and they are on the edge because of that experience. I think a drug like Xanix would be useful in getting them over that really really bad spot. But after a very short period, the drug needs to be discontinued.

[Beausoir]

71. Ambien helps alot of people but it was hell for me. Took it after major surgery

and the blackouts, the night wandering and the depression that came with it were just too much.

I threw it away.

[NightWatcher]

2. he was obviously not still taking the xanax

the trick with meds is to take them when prescribed. if you want to come off them, do so with the help of the doc.

[Imagine My Surprise]

4. Actually, I know a bit about anti-depressant tapering...

and it should be done with the help of a PHARMACIST. Doctors, as a rule, have actually had very little training about the meds. But pharmacmists KNOW DRUGS.

[EFerrari]

5. Yep. And I'd like to know why this kid wasn't on anti-psychotic meds.

:shrug:

[LisaL]

40. Why should he have been?

I haven't seen anyone saying he had psychosis.

[NMMNG]

44. What suggests he needed them?

Schizophrenia is very rare (about 1% of the US population) and very few people who have it engage in violence. The notion that there are countless violent psychotics is a media creation. It makes for good movies but only serves to reinforce stigma against people who have mental illnesses.

But why am I explaining this to you? You know all of this, right?

[EFerrari]

67. Agreed There are not counltess violent psychotics.

And, there really is nothing like enough information to draw a conclusion. But, there are elements of this story that feel sort of familiar to me.

The job hopping, the withdrawal from the romantic relationship, reports of erratic behavior, the secretiveness around the gun buying, the all black costume taken together suggest some level of paranoia to me, not to mention, loss of insight. And those things are only what can be observed. People can be quietly psychotic and paranoid for a long time before anyone notices if they happen to present well, right?

Some of these behaviors started before he "went off" his medications which suggests to me that he was struggling with decompensation for some time, and that this particular cocktail wasn't covering the situation.

This kid seems to have been well liked (although without the kind of manipulative flare that some killers seem to have) and he just doesn't fit the MO of someone who could coldly plan a mass murder unless there is something else here that isn't public. And, that may well be. You don't hospitalize someone in the late 90s for a year because they're a little "unruly" at home.

[Beausoleil]

8. This is true

If you want to know about side effects, interactions, generic v. brand name, even OTC stuff, ask a pharmacist!

My wife was having trouble with her thyroid medication until a pharmacist told her to stick with brand name or generic but don't switch back and forth. She went with brand name and has had no trouble since.
We also had my pregnant step-daughter ask a pharmacist which OTC cold meds she could take.

[fed-up]

6. April 2000-Lilly's legal strategy disarmed Prozac lawyers

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-04-22-StarNews-Lilly-tactics.htm
Lilly's legal strategy disarmed Prozac lawyers
Secret deals, hardball tactics limited drugmaker's liability for top-selling antidepressant.

By Jeff Swiatek
The Indianapolis Star


Saturday, April 22, 2000
..snip

RELATIVELY TRIVIAL
Estimated $50 million a small price to pay

Controversial though Lilly's Prozac legal strategy has been, it's tough to fault the results.

Not only has Lilly managed to get most Prozac cases dropped or dismissed, it has won jury verdicts in the only two Prozac civil cases to come to trial.

As for the settlement payouts, by most measures they've come cheap. Lilly has never divulged how much money it has paid to plaintiffs and their lawyers, but the total runs over $50 million, according to court documents and other reliable evidence reviewed by The Indianapolis Star.

Compare that to potential product-liability claims that hung over Prozac in the mid-1990s of perhaps $500 million to $1 billion, said Bob Kirby, health care analyst for the Edward Jones investment firm of St. Louis.

Or perhaps much more.

...snip

[penguin7]

17. Why should the lawyers make money off of this?

[varkam]

7. So is it the drugs' fault?

:crazy:

[fed-up]

9. possibly-these powerful drugs can cause profound changes in thought patterns

if you read any list of side effects most include, aggitation, restlessness, dulling of emotions etc

Having recently started then stopped a misprescibed antidepressant for what was finally diagnosed as bipolar I went into the deepest darkest pit of suicidal thinking, not just passing thoughts that life was too tough to handle, but really thinking that if I went to sleep and never woke up all would be fine. I even started trying to calculate just how much of what of my meds would do the trick.

I have never, ever in all my lifetimes history of on/off depression/ hypomania felt that bad

These drugs are very powerful and affect everybody differently! Just look at the warnings they are finally starting to add.

THe thoughts occurred while I was taking it, also had similar thoughts after starting Lamictal, but stopped that due to getting a swollen painful lymph node on the 9th day. Turns out that when taking an anti-convulsant they should have asked if there was a family hypersensitivity to the drug as it is genetic. But the physicians assistant decided the lymph node was a flu, despite the fact that two days after stopping the drug the swelling went down.



Yes, they may help some/many people, but at what price to the innocent victims of these repeated mass senseless killings.

The pharmeceutical companies have tons of money to keep the problems under wraps.

[varkam]

10. Or...it could be...

the the kid was seriously ill. If it's the drugs' fault, then I'd assume we'd be seeing more mass-murders across the country than we are seeing considering number of people on some sort of SSRI.

[fed-up]

11. that is why they are termed "rare" adverse effects-here are some patient reports

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=18936&name=PROZAC

seizures, headaches, sleep disturbance, weakness, stomach and digestive problems, agitation, anxiety, worsening of depression, suicidal feelings, bruising, disturbed vision, dry mouth. Horrendous withdrawal symptoms when I stopped taking the drug and I have now been diagnosed with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity as a result of my toxic exposure to Prozac and I still have the seizures (grand mal and petit mal) that I developed very shortly after I started taking the drug. This drug should be banned. I can not believe that a drug that has been linked to suicidal thoughts is being given to vulnerable people who are experiencing depression. What's even more unbelievable is the fact that there are so many vested interests in the prescribing of these drugs, the drug's manufacturer have not been prosecuted for withholding negative information from the clinical trials relating to this drugs. This link makes very interesting reading: http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/timeline.html



Severe anxiety. Woke up in the middle of the night sweating and suicidal thoughts. I never had a suicidal prior and after Prozac. And this was even before I read that suicidal thoughts is one of its side effects, therefore it wasn't just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I have decided to stop taking this due to the suicidal thoughts that I have been experiencing. This is extremely out of character for a happy, bubly outgoing individual. I took this 14 days before my period and found that I got a high then felt like I wanted to jump of a bridge or in front of the train, which is frightening when the urges get overwhelming. Becareful when taking this medication, these thoughts came from nowhere and disturbed me severely.


VILE ADVERSE EFFECTS~ Insomnia, severe lack of appetite, akathasia, heatburn, emotional blunting, abdominal pain, severe anxiety (never had before) and severe depression (never had before), suicide ideation, lack of concentration, nausea, sensitivity to stimui. I gave the drug 8 weeks to work because I was told the side effects would go away. Well, they didn't! Prozac made me worse. I feel like I've had a chemical lobotomy! I thought the side effects would subside after discontinuing the med, but 8 weeks post discontinuation and I am still suffering from the side effects and can barely function. I was a happy and content person before taking Prozac for mild depression due to a miscarriage. Now I am just a shell of the person I once was. I can barely work, my husband has become my caretaker, things I used to enjoy I have no interest in. I just pray that Prozac did not cause permanent brain damage. I know these drugs help some people, but please, please, please think twice about taking an SSRI, especially if you are dealing with mild to moderate depression. I've learned the hard way that doctors don't really know much about severe adverse effects of SSRIs and there is no treatment for people like me who still suffer from persistant adverse effects. I wouldn't wish the hell I am enduring on my worst enemy.

[varkam]

14. I don't see homicidal rage in that list of side effects.

Maybe I'm not reading close enough.

[wtmusic]

15. Here ya go (not side effects, but withdrawal symptoms)

specifically for Xanax:

"Psychological symptoms: anxiety** (including panic attacks), depression**, insomnia*, derealization/depersonalization* (feelings of unreality/detachment from self), abnormal sensitivity sensory stimuli* (such as loud noise or bright light), obsessive negative thoughts*, (particularly of a violent and/or sexual nature) rapid mood changes* (including especially outbursts of anger or rage), phobias* (especially agoraphobia and fear of insanity), dysphoria* (loss of capacity to enjoy life; possibility a combination of depression, anxiety, and derealization/depersonalization), impairment of cognitive functioning*, suicidal thoughts*, nightmares, hallucinations, psychosis, pill cravings. Note that it is far more common to fear psychosis than it is to actually experience it. Physical Symptoms: muscle tension/pain**, joint pain*, tinnitus*, headaches*, shaking/tremors*, blurred vision* (and other complications related to the eyes), itchy skin* (including sensations of insects crawling on skin), gastrointestinal discomfort*, electric shock sensations*, paresthesia* (numbness and pins and needles, especially in extremities), fatigue*, weakness in the extremities (particularly the legs)*, feelings of inner vibrations* (especially in the torso), sweating, fluctuations in body temperature, difficulty in swallowing, loss of appetite, "flu like" symptoms, fasciculations (muscle twitching), metallic taste in mouth, nausea, extreme thirst (including dry mouth and increased frequency of urination), sexual dysfunction (or occasional increase in libido), heart palpitations, dizziness, vertigo, breathlessness.

What has become clinically apparent with Xanax which appears to be somewhat different than the other benzodiazepines is that the patients ability to self-detox or be able to be gradually tapered off of the medication is markedly more difficult. Thusly, once the physiologic dependence has occurred with Xanax, the ability of the patient to discontinue use successfully on their own is quite low, and medical assistance becomes of significant necessity in the majority of cases."

http://www.oxyabusekills.com/xanax.html

onedit: I can vouch for the "outbursts" effect of Xanax withdrawal. It's some nasty shit.

[varkam]

18. Right. But I was talking about ADRs of the drug itself...

not the effects of sudden cessation. I do think that sudden cessation could of been a contributing factor though deciding how much weight to assign to it is difficult, as there are many factors in play (such as mental illness).

[wtmusic]

20. Doctors are pushing any and all meds mercilessly

with little regard for contraindications, toxic combinations, or withdrawal effects.

Just had a visit today, as a matter of fact, where I got hit for $145 worth of meds -- for a sore throat. I must have seen 5 attractive female pharma reps wheeling their little black carryons full of drug samples. It's out of control.

[varkam]

21. All doctors are "pushing any and all meds mercilessly"?

:crazy:

[wtmusic]

22. The "all" is yours. But nice try.

If I mention "doctors" it's safe to assume I'm making a general assumption about a trend.

Now you get to tell me about your doctor who only has your best interests in mind.

:crazy:

[varkam]

27. "If I mention "doctors" it's safe to assume I'm making a general assumption about a trend."

Well, given the level of hostility towards medicine, physicians, and science in general with certain posters on DU I wouldn't say that such an assumption is safe at all.

I included the all to draw out whether or not you think that there are exceptions to the trend that you are claiming.

My doc happens to be a good doc, but even I know that anecdotal evidence = crap when it comes to wider discussions. I do think that there is too much collusion between primary care docs and the pharmaceutical companies in the form of drug reps (even though they can perform a valuable service - at least ideally), and that there are some docs who don't have the wherewithal or the time to review a patients medical history (even when it comes to something as simple and vitally important as reviewing a list of current medications). I would hardly say, however, that the hysterics of claiming that docs are pushing any and all meds "mercilessly" benefits your cause much. In the end, it just makes you come off as...well...hysterical.

[wtmusic]

30. Lumping disdain for physicians and science together is...presumptive

I come from a family of three physicians, two of whom quit because they were tired of being squeezed by administrators between ethics and money.

My doctor today, who I believe is very competent, felt no compunction at all about railroading me into letting his building's pharmacy fill my order, even though I found out later it was more expensive. I have no doubt there was a financial incentive on his part to do so.

Symptomatic of a total (yes, total) disregard among physicians for how much their patient's treatment costs. Take it or leave it.

[varkam]

32. I see it a lot here on DU.

Not saying you in particular, mind you, but there are several posters (again, I did not say you are one) who have nothing but acrimony for medicine, docs, or science.

Symptomatic of a total (yes, total) disregard among physicians for how much their patient's treatment costs.

I'm not understanding what you mean by that sentence. I'm assuming you mean your physician's actions (anecdotal as it is, but nevermind) are symptomatic of a total disregard among physicians for how much their patient's treatment costs. I'm assuming, (since you say it is safe), that you do not mean all physicians have this "total" disregard, but only...what? A few? Some? Many? Most? Perhaps you could be a bit more clear with this claim.

[wtmusic]

33. I can only back up what I've seen

and that is this: I've never, ever had a physician offer to help me save money or even bring the subject up.

Any good professional should be helping their clients save money, whether it's on real estate, taxes, investments, whatever. A categorical arrogance (which extends to members of my family) has become endemic to medicine and it manifests itself in everything from exhorbitant and unnecessary prescription writing to having patients show up half an hour early for scheduled appointments (the presumption is that your time is less valuable than theirs).

Why is medicine different from other professions in this way? Because physicians are able to hide behind an insurance "shield" which, besides somewhat guaranteeing payment, also prohibits the consumer using their service from ever knowing how much they're being charged (sure, you can find out, but who ever bothers, and why would you). Physicians have exploited the shield to charge the absolute maximum, unreasonable fees allowed by law. These are fees which would never be tolerated if they ever were actually scrutinized, like $8 for two Advil, $15 for blanket rental, that kind of thing.

I don't know what the answer is but if we're searching for who's "gaming" the system I'll start with doctors. A law requiring posting of fees and insurance discounts, and thus opening up comparison shopping for medicine, would be a good place to start.

[AZCat]

36. Then we have had different experiences.

I have had several doctors give me thousands of dollars worth of prescription meds when I was without insurance and struggling to get through school.

Your interpretation of the role of a professional is flawed. Saving money is not the goal - providing the best service possible is.

[wtmusic]

46. Medicine is a business, not a charity

If you want to go build houses for the homeless you can spend all day and knock yourself out. But come off it -- you think those meds came from the goodness of your doctor's heart? They were free samples offered by pharma companies, and guess who really paid for them (it wasn't the pharma companies either).

Nothing wrong with medicine as a business, but it may be the only business where you don't know how much you're paying up front. Would you go to a grocery store with no prices, where the bill comes in the mail? Consumers are put at an extreme disadvantage in this lopsided business arrangement, and that is the crux of the problem.

[varkam]

48. So docs handing out free meds is somehow an insidious plot...

to make more money?

:rofl:

[wtmusic]

51. Well...

you can straw man it to death but its purpose is most definitely to make more money.

Talk to the MD I saw getting theater tickets from a pharma rep while I was checking out (no shit), and ask him how much of that company's meds he wrote the previous month.

You can roll on the floor and laugh, just don't be naive.

[varkam]

57. "you can straw man it to death but its purpose is most definitely to make more money."

Uh...that's what I was asking. How is that a straw man?

Also, I fail to see how docs handing out free meds benefits the pharmaceutical company's bottom-line. But I guess I'm just naive :rofl:

[wtmusic]

61. Good stuff to know:

re: "an insidious plot"

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Pharamaceutical companies hand out samples for the same reason any company hands out promotional items. The docs hand them out to their patients, and next time around the patients pay for them, maybe entice a family member to use them too.

(BTW you're little laughing dude doesn't bother me, just makes it kind of hard to take your argument seriously).

[varkam]

65. Sorry - guess I misjudged your sense of humor.

Being that you don't appear to have one, I'll refrain from any and all sarcasm in future posts. I most sincerely apologize for any miscommunication.

Pharamaceutical companies hand out samples for the same reason any company hands out promotional items. The docs hand them out to their patients, and next time around the patients pay for them, maybe entice a family member to use them too.

(BTW you're little laughing dude doesn't bother me, just makes it kind of hard to take your argument seriously).

How's the weather in bizarro world? A line from one of my college text books springs to mind: once a hypothesis is accepted, anything can be interpreted to support the conclusion. IOW, this is pointless.

Oh, and for good measure :rofl:

[AZCat]

50. When did I claim it wasn't?

But yes, the meds I was given did come from the goodness of those doctor's hearts - and a hearty "fuck you" to anyone who thinks they can judge a person without knowing a damn thing about them or the situation in question.

You fail to understand the role of a professional. The cheapest option is not always the best. It is up to the professional to inform the client of the alternatives and the benefits and drawbacks of them.

Prices for medical procedures, office visits, and medication are published and well-known. When your car starts making strange sounds and you take it in to the repair shop, you don't necessarily know what needs to be replaced and therefore can't calculate ahead of time the cost of the repairs. How is that any different from a visit to the doctor?

[wtmusic]

52. My mechanic is required by CA law to give me an estimate up front

and I think you are agreeing with me when you say "it is up to the professional to inform the client of the alternatives and the benefits and drawbacks of them", are you not? Money never makes it into the conversation.

[AZCat]

53. You need to switch doctors.

Yours suck. Mine are pretty clear about the costs of my options.

[wtmusic]

54. delete

[wtmusic]

55. Let me get this straight:

When you walk into your doctor's office, you know how much you're going to be billed.

Bullshit.

[AZCat]

56. Having fun with those strawmen?

How many fucking times do I have to repeat this: just like a goddamn car repair shop, nobody knows how much it's going to cost until they know what it is (or how they're going to find that out).

[wtmusic]

59. Calm down, there are no strawmen here.

I know before I authorize service on my car, within 10%, what I'm going to have to pay.

Do you (or anyone, for that matter) have the slightest clue what your doctor is going to bill for a routine visit when you walk in the door?

Does the doctor ever tell you? Ever?

[AZCat]

60. Again, you're presenting a strawman.

It is a strawman because you are changing the rules between the two cases, to favor your argument. When you take your car to your mechanic, how does he know what your repairs will cost before he even knows what is wrong with it? The same applies to a doctor. Mine tells me what the cost will be (approximately) before he does any tests or prescribes any meds, but he has to at least do a preliminary examination first! What's so fucking complicated about this?

[wtmusic]

63. So your doctor's preliminary exam is free?

If so, you're right. My doctors do suck.

[AZCat]

64. No, but I know how much it costs.

Is that enough?

[varkam]

38. You do understand that anecdotal evidence is bad evidence, right?

It's inappropriate to use such evidence as premises in arguments about wider concepts, not to mention the various biases that operate and color our personal experiences.

Any good professional should be helping their clients save money, whether it's on real estate, taxes, investments, whatever.

I think, also, being a good professional depends largely on the profession. A good professional in the field of medicine should be primarily concerned with being effective in relieving symptoms and curing illness. Saving money may be a necessary condition for being a "good professional" as you see it, but I would also submit that being able to cure things is also a necessary condition. Your doc could write you a $2 script for sugar pills, and it would undoubedtly save you money, but it's not likely to fix much.

Because physicians are able to hide behind an insurance "shield" which, besides somewhat guaranteeing payment, also prohibits the consumer using their service from ever knowing how much they're being charged (sure, you can find out, but who ever bothers, and why would you).

Most docs don't like managed care determing how and when they deliver treatment, which is essentially what managed care does (or is increasingly doing). Also, AFAIK, most insurance companies will be happy to tell you how much they're being billed, how much they're covering, and how much you owe -- it's called an invoice. I think your issues here should actually be directed at managed care companies, not at physicians themselves.

[readmoreoften]

41. You just said anecdotal evidence is bad in respond to a post that you titled "I've seen it a lot

here on DU."

Care to back up your "a lot" with quantitative evidence?

[varkam]

47. You should readmoreoften.

I wasn't making a conclusion about national medical policy or general trends within the health-care industry, now was I? Nor was I making a generalization about how many people outside of DU engage in such behavior as a proportion of the general population, now was I? Nope. I was making an observation about certain types of posts that I have read on DU as an explanation for why I posted what I did.

Surely you know the type of post that I'm talking about. Or, perhaps, you're a sophist and need me to walk you through finding such posts. Well, there are several in this thread, for starters. If you need more, I'd recommend venturing into the health forums.

[readmoreoften]

62. Oh calm down. I was just messing with you.

But don't ever call me a sophist. That's below the belt.

[varkam]

66. Sorry - I get uppity at times.

I should learn to take a nice deep breath and then count to 10 before posting.

Apologies. :hi:

[fed-up]

26. from prozac dot com-where the adverse effects are very, very, very carefully worded

http://prozac.com/common_pages/prescribing_information.jsp?reqNavId=undefined


All patients being treated with antidepressants for any indication should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of a course of drug therapy, or at times of dose changes, either increases or decreases. The following symptoms, anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania, have been reported in adult and pediatric patients being treated with antidepressants for major depressive disorder as well as for other indications, both psychiatric and nonpsychiatric. Although a causal link between the emergence of such symptoms and either the worsening of depression and/or the emergence of suicidal impulses has not been established, there is concern that such symptoms may represent precursors to emerging suicidality.

[varkam]

28. But it seems that the majority of the evidence

centers around worsening suicidality (e.g. the black box warnings) - not flying into homicidal rages.

[noonwitch]

16. That's my guess-drugs don't work on every patient

Some need to be hospitalized, but we don't have any long term psych hospitals anymore, at least not for the average person.

[readmoreoften]

39. You better believe it is.

Ambien can produce psychoses and black outs and if you go cold turkey off Xanax you can go into a psychosis. I've seen it happen to good people. Thank god no violence resulted.

[yardwork]

12. Ambien has been implicated in some very odd episodes.

The drug makers aren't telling us everything they know about these drugs they market.

[davsand]

23. Ambien made me hallucinate.

First night I got a great night's sleep and felt great when I got up the next morning. Day two (Doc told me 7 days on it) I started to have panic attacks and hallucinations. I am very serious when I tell you that had I been in a less secure environment I might have fallen apart. It was BAD.

I went in to the Doc's office and told them what had happened. The response was, "Hmm. I never heard of THAT happening before! Don't take any more of it." (Duh!) Took a couple of days for it to clear my system, but it finally did. I have had no other problems since then. I have done a bit of reading on it and I have found other reports of this kind of thing happening with Ambien.

Oddly enough, when my doc took me off the Ambien they put me on a low dose of Xanax. Worked fine--put my ass to sleep! I can't imagine getting too out of hand taking that stuff, but I am told that with-drawl from it is awful.




Laura

[yardwork]

25. Very interesting. I've read lots of accounts of people having odd reactions to Ambien.

I've been on Paxil for many years, and while I've never had problems with it, when I miss a day or two the withdrawal symptoms are fierce. If I start getting seriously lightheaded, dizzy, and nauseous, it's usually because I forgot to refill the script for a couple days. I'm tailing down very slowly and hope to get off it entirely one day.

I know that SSRIs save lives, but I'm not at all persuaded that Ambien needs to exist at all.

[varkam]

29. Ambien can help people with transient insomnia.

The major ADR that most people experience is the "morning-after" effect. Basically, the drug isn't cleared by morning and so they feel groggy. My personal thought is that many of the stranger effects of Ambien can be attributed to this. My theory is that people are having "micro-sleeps" when they're going about their business, which could account simultaneously for strange behavior as well as the lack of recall concerning events (as sleep onset induces a mild retrograde amnesia).

[fed-up]

13. link to cnn story-Girlfriend: Shooter was taking cocktail of 3 drugs

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/20/shooter.girlfriend/?iref=mpstoryview

CNN) -- Steven Kazmierczak had been taking three drugs prescribed for him by his psychiatrist, the Northern Illinois University gunman's girlfriend told CNN.

Jessica Baty said Steven Kazmierczak was irritable but not erratic before his shooting rampage.

Jessica Baty said Tuesday that her boyfriend of two years had been taking Xanax, used to treat anxiety, and Ambien, a sleep agent, as well as the antidepressant Prozac.

Baty said the psychiatrist prescribed the medications, a fact that made her so "nervous" that she tried to persuade Kazmierczak to stop taking one of the drugs.

She said he had stopped taking the antidepressant three weeks before the Valentine's Day rampage on the NIU campus in DeKalb, Illinois, which left five students dead and 16 wounded. He then killed himself.

In an exclusive interview with CNN Sunday, Baty said Kazmierczak had been taking the anti-depressant for obsessive-compulsive tendencies and anxiety caused by school pressures.

snip

[varkam]

19. WTF?

Baty said the psychiatrist prescribed the medications, a fact that made her so "nervous" that she tried to persuade Kazmierczak to stop taking one of the drugs.

Oy fucking vey.

[NMMNG]

34. It's beginning to look like what I suspected

The guy had problems. He got medications for the problems. He went off his meds and the shit hit the fan.

Now how many people are going to blame the meds, not the problems for which he was on the meds (or issues related to stopping the meds)?

[LisaL]

37. There are so many people taking these meds.

And so many people who are having problems.
Thankfully most of them don't kill anyone.

[NMMNG]

42. Exactly

Unfortunately people tend to jump to conclusions. :-(

[LisaL]

43. Scary thing that it's so hard to know which one is going to go off.

This guy was described by people who knew him as nice, normal, etc.
Sure, he had problems, but he was obviously able to function.
And yea, people can look back and claim there were warning signs.
But, hello.
This guy obviously didn't seem like the one who was gonna go off to those who knew him.
There are people who seem to be way worse off and they don't do what he did.

[NMMNG]

49. People sometimes just seemingly snap.

Even those who don't have a previously diagnosed mental disorder (or who didn't have one at all). We may never know what exactly his motivation was or all of the factors contributed to his state of mind. The best we can do is learn all we can from it and try to prevent further occurrences like it.

[readmoreoften]

45. Ambien and Xanax can cause powerful psychoses in withdrawal.

My father was hospitalized with a total break after an anti-pharmaceuticals, fundie shrink pulled him off Xanax. Recently a friend was put in a psychiatric hospital for a violent psychotic episode where she took an Ambien after a night of drinking. If these pills have adverse side effects to the point where they are causing psychoses, it needs to be addressed. On the other hand, if it's a case of someone going cold turkey off their meds or mixing up the scripts, there at least ought to be a more forceful warning about usage.

[spoony]

24. Maybe we should add stupid girlfriends to the list of things to be banned.

[knitter4democracy]

31. I've taken Ambien and Xanax before. I must've had a totally different rxn.

Half of the smallest dose of Ambien knocked me out for a day and a half. I felt awful upon waking up and felt sleepy and groggy the rest of the day and slept hard the next night (while 8 months preggers--I really needed that sleep).

Half of the smallest dose of Xanax made me quite loopy and sleepy. A whole one probably would've knocked me out.

Why did he quit taking them? Was he sleeping okay without the Ambien? Were his panic attacks and anxiety issues doing better without the Xanax? Tapering off those drugs is something you need to talk with your doctor about.

May he finally be at peace now, and may those he killed be in a place of repose and peace. I will pray for the ones he wounded and all the families who have been hurt by his actions.

[juno jones]

35. I had a retrograde reaction to Xanax.

It didn't knock me out, it made me somewhat manic. And Within 24 hours I was violently pissed off. I even started having violent thoughts about my then 2-year-old son. I realized pretty quickly it was a drug reaction and sent my son off with my parents while I detoxed. The whole episode only lasted a few days but it scared me. I went to the doc after and she brushed it off as a 'retrograde reaction' and offered me something else. I declined and have never had the urge try scrip drugs again for my depressions. Even my darkest mood is 'even keel' compared to that hell.

Xanax scares the shit out of me. It doesn't surprise me it is one of the drugs linked to this event.

[fed-up]

69. it's the brushing off and ignoring off the serious adverse effects that is the problem nt

[Perry Logan]

70. Whoa. Does this mean Tom Cruise was RIGHT?