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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:52 PM
Original message
Bush/Cheney and the Neocons: Just Plain War Profiteers
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 10:18 PM by Time for change
As a government employee Im required to fill out a several page form every year in order to show that I dont have any conflicts of interests which may interfere with the honest performance of my job. In theory, so are all U.S. government employees who have jobs that are potentially subject to conflicts of interest.

The purpose of the extensive rules governing potential conflicts of interests for U.S. government employees are explained concisely in the first paragraph of this document:

As an executive branch employee, you have the opportunity to use your talent and expertise to do work that benefits the public. Sometimes, though, your government work may benefit you or your family personally. In these circumstances, the public could be concerned that you will be motivated by considerations other than your desire to do what is best for the public as a whole.

In no area of policy is it more important for government to prevent conflicts of interest than in those dealing with issues of war and other disasters. To do this, an ethical government must ensure that its employees who are involved in making war and disaster related decisions do not have financial interests that could cause them to profit from war or other disaster. Failure of government to adequately address such a situation could lead to the hiring and retention of government employees who promote war or other disaster for financial gain i.e. war profiteering.

War profiteering is an abominable act. Those who engage in it should be removed from office immediately and then prosecuted. High government officials who willfully and repeatedly allow war profiteering to occur under their supervision should also be removed from office.

With that in mind, lets consider some examples of the actions of several Neocons in the George W. Bush administration or who contracted to do work on behalf of the Bush administration. The following examples are taken from Naomi Kleins book, The Shock Doctrine The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, where the issue of war profiteering is discussed in great detail.


Some examples of war profiteering by Neocons working in or connected with the Bush administration

Donald Rumsfeld
Among holdings representing conflicts of interest that Donald Rumsfeld refused to divest himself of when he became Secretary of Defense in 2001 was $8 million to $39 million worth of stock in Gilead Sciences, a company that Rumsfeld previously chaired and which held the patent on an influenza vaccine known as Tamiflu. A Senate ethics committee tried to get Rumsfeld to comply with the rules, but he refused.

George Bushs War on Terror, as well as the accompanying Iraq War, which Rumsfeld so aggressively promoted, contributed greatly to a rise in the value of Gilead stock. So did the July 2005 purchase by Rumsfelds Pentagon of $58 million worth of Tamiflu and the purchase of $1 billion worth of Tamiflu by the Department of Health and Human Services shortly thereafter. As a result of all these things, by the time Rumsfeld left office his millions of dollars worth of holdings in Gilead stock had increased by 807 %, providing him with a profit of millions or tens of millions of dollars.

Dick Cheney
When Dick Cheney became Vice President in 2001 he refused to let go of 189,000 shares of Halliburton stock, though he repeatedly proclaimed that he had done so.

With the onset of war in Iraq, which Cheney had lobbied for constantly for two and a half years, Halliburton received billions of dollars worth of no-bid contracts. That made the Iraq War the single most profitable event in Halliburtons history. Due largely to those no-bid contracts, the value of Halliburton stock has risen by more than 300 % during Cheneys time in office so far.

Furthermore, Halliburton was found guilty of over-billing our government $1.5 billion, and several billions of dollars allocated to the reconstruction of Iraq went missing. Yet, no meaningful investigation has ever been conducted by the Bush administration to hold the perpetrators accountable.

James Baker III
James Baker, the man who headed George W. Bushs theft of the 2000 election, was appointed by Bush as special envoy with respect to Iraqs debt. That meant that Baker was responsible for persuading numerous governments to forgive Iraqs crushing foreign debt.

At the time that Baker received this assignment he was a partner in the Carlyle Group (which also received billions of dollars as a result of the Iraq War). Though Baker never mentioned this publicly, Naomi Klein obtained a confidential memo that demonstrated a serious conflict of interest for Baker with respect to his new government assignment and his partnership in the Carlyle group. At the same time that he was supposed to be convincing governments to forgive Iraqs debt, the Carlyle group was involved in an effort on behalf of their client, the nation of Kuwait, to collect several billion dollars in debt from Iraq.

And not only that. The memo that Klein obtained indicated that Baker played a key role in collecting the debt from Iraq. Furthermore, to secure the contract with Kuwait, the Carlyle group emphasized the influence that Baker had with the Bush administration, and required Kuwait to invest $1 billion with them.

After Klein exposed the deal in The Nation, the Carlyle Group backed out of it. But the damage was already done because they had already been successful in forcing Iraq to pay $2.59 billion to Kuwait, money that was desperately needed to ease Iraqs humanitarian crisis and help rebuild their country. In addition, Baker was completely unsuccessful in his efforts to ease Iraqs debt burden, the job that the Bush administration paid him to do.

George Schultz and the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq
George Schultz was a former Secretary of State in the Reagan administration. In 2002 he headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq at the request of the Bush administration. In that capacity he wrote editorials such as Act Now: The danger is immediate Saddam Hussein must be removed, to whip up enthusiasm for the invasion of Iraq.

At the same time, though he never disclosed this to his readers, Schultz was a member of the board of directors at Bechtel, which stood to gain huge profits from a war with Iraq. And indeed, less than a month after the start of the war, Bechtel was awarded a $680 million contract for the reconstruction of Iraq. They ended up making $2.3 billion on Iraq reconstruction, even though they never came close to finishing the job they were hired to do.

Also of note is that Lockheed Martin was intimately involved in creating and running the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. And they too made huge profits on the Iraq War.

Henry Kissinger
Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State and National Security Advisor for the Nixon administration, was probably more intimately involved with the Bush administration than any other outside advisor, meeting regularly with both Bush and Cheney.

After September 11, 2001, Bush picked him to head the 9-11 Commission, to investigate the circumstances of the 9-11 attacks on our country. When the families of 9-11 victims asked Kissinger to produce a list of his corporate clients, in order to ascertain if he had conflicts of interest with respect to his new position, he refused. Rather than produce the list he stepped down as the chair of the Commission, though Bush did not ask him to step down or to produce the list of his corporate clients.

Richard Perle
Richard Perle was tasked by Donald Rumsfeld to chair the Defense Policy Board for the Bush administration.

Two months after the 9-11 attacks Perle created a private defense and security company called Trireme Partners. He used his position as chairman of the Defense Policy Board to argue for a preemptive attack on Iraq a role that previous chairmen of the DPD had probably never done. At the same time, he used his title to solicit investments in his new company, according to an investigation by Seymour Hersh.

Perle also convinced Boeing to invest $20 million in his new company. In return, he used his influence to procure a $17 billion tanker deal for Boeing. The tanker deal itself eventually became one of the biggest scandals in Pentagon history. Donald Rumsfeld later claimed that he couldnt recall any of the details of his role in the $17 billion contract.

Perles profiteering eventually caught up with him, and he was pressured into resigning as chairman of the DPD.


A few words about the Project for a New American Century

As has always been the case throughout the history of the world whenever crimes against humanity are perpetrated, our current leaders disguise their true intentions behind a veil of gobbelygook. A blueprint for how this is done can be deciphered by an examination of the statement of principles of the group known as Project for a New American Century (PNAC), from which the Bush/Cheney administration takes its ideology. Relevant portions of that statement of principles are as follows:

We need to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values We need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles. Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.

Further insights into PNACs goals and motivations can be seen from their document, Rebuilding Americas Defenses, written long before the 9-11 attacks on our country.
The primary theme of Rebuilding Americas Defenses is that our military must be much stronger than the militaries of any nation or combination of nations that might oppose our ambitions, in order that we may shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests, boldly and purposefully promote American principles abroad and maintain an order that is uniquely friendly to American principles and prosperity. More specifically, we now have new missions which require defending American interests in the Persian Gulf and Middle East by deterring or, when needed, by compelling regional foes to act in ways that protect American interests and principles.

In case anyone missed it, these statements are a declaration of imperialistic intentions. They virtually define imperialism. Furthermore, they indicate a call for war crimes pure and simple. How else would one characterize compelling regional foes to act in ways that protect American interests?


War profiteering?

Naomi Klein notes that nothing enrages Richard Perle more than the suggestion that his advocacy for war is in any way influenced by the enormous profitability of war for him personally. When CNNs Wolf Blitzer reminded Perle of Seymour Hershs article about his conflicts of interest, Perle blew up and compared Hersh to a terrorist. Then he told Blitzer, I dont believe that a company would gain from a war. The suggestion that my views are somehow related for the potential for investments in homeland defense is complete nonsense.

Klein notes the absurdity of Perles statement that corporations dont reap financial gains from wars. Yet, she says that even the most committed critics of the Neocons tend to portray them as ideologues, motivated by a commitment to American supremacy rather than motivated primarily by personal financial gain.

It is time, however, that we lose our reluctance to look at the situation realistically and call them what they are. Klein says of the distinction between the Neocons militant nationalistic ideology and plain war profiteering:

This distinction is both artificial and amnesiac. The right to limitless profit-seeking has always been at the center of Neocon ideology. Before 9/11, demands for radical privatization and attacks on social spending fuelled the Neocon movement at think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute, Heritage and Cato.


Consider the consequences of failing to hold war profiteers accountable for their crimes

To be honest about it, this isnt the first time in world history or American history that war profiteers have led a nation into a disastrous war for their own personal gain. Nor was our invasion of Iraq the most disastrous war to ever befall the world yet. And war profiteers often or usually get away with their crimes without having to pay a price. So, if our country fails to take action against these war profiteers it wont set a whole new precedent in doing so, because the precedent has already been set.

But on the other hand, the Bush administration is the most blatantly criminal presidential administration that our country has ever suffered through. His invasion of Iraq was completely unnecessary and irresponsible. The fact that Iraq posed no threat to us and Bush/Cheney knew that it posed no threat to us means that it was a war crime. Furthermore, George Bush and Dick Cheney lied to the American people and to Congress in order to justify that war. As such, they violated the separation of powers in our Constitution and usurped Congresss power to declare war. Congress was wrong to give George Bush the power to use his own judgment to make a unilateral decision on whether or not to invade Iraq. But they did not declare war. He did. Congress merely left it up to his judgment. They should have known better. They should have known that George Bush would abuse that responsibility as indeed he did. Now they have the opportunity to partially amend their mistake, by making George Bush and Dick Cheney accountable for their criminal actions.

I dont want to get into a semantic argument about whether or not our Constitution requires that Congress impeach Bush and Cheney and remove them from office. One could argue the letter of the Constitution either way. But our Constitution has been willfully violated by those two criminals countless times. If Congress fails to take action now, they are so much as saying that our Constitution is nothing but the worthless scrap of paper that George Bush has said it is.

Therefore, if Congress believes that our Constitution contains the laws that hold our country together and make us a nation of laws rather than a nation of men, then common sense demands that they impeach. So does common decency. It is not only our Constitution and our nation that is at stake. War profiteering is one of the worst crimes known to man for reasons that I dont think I have to explain. It is a terrible crime against humanity. If the world doesnt draw a line in the sand with regard to these kind of crimes before too long, given current weaponry, technology, and pending environmental catastrophes, it is not likely that world civilization will last much longer.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. War profiteers.
At least an ideologue, however wrong his beliefs, believes in SOMETHING. All these criminal clowns believe in is money. Nothing else is as important; neither country, nor family, nor love, not God, not humanity itself..

Only money...
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exactly
Edited on Sat Feb-09-08 10:25 PM by dflprincess
But they are experts at using others' religion and/or love of country to their advantage.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R
Well done & very important reading.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Thank you
Too bad our corporate news media doesn't share that view. :(
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. EVIL GREED, ARROGANCE, ANTI HUMAN.....
We pay the Price of INEPT. SELFISH, Etc Leaders

Whats wrong with our Judging?

Can't we even figure out who is for the Common Good Vs the Worse???

Are we THAT DUMB?

and Why must THIS PERSIST?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. I don't believe that we actually elected Bush in either 2000 or 2004
Still, close to have of all voters voted for him, and that's way too many.

I think that there is way too much apathy in this country, and people fall for the propaganda that they get from our corporate media. History is taught very poorly in this country. We are way too trusing of our "leaders".

Also, money has way too much influence in our elections, and that has a very corrupting influence on candidates. They have to satisfy big money donors in order to increase their competitiveness in elections.

The system needs a big overhaul.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. I still do not understand why truth in advertising doesn't apply to all politics,...
,...whether it be political ads or government propaganda. Our governance is AT LEAST as important as the products we buy. Yet, somehow, lying and misrepresentation and manipulation in politics is not considered a public interest exception to "free speech"?

Makes NO damn sense!

Hey, yours is an excellent post and I have bookmarked it and intend to print and spread it around.

This government has completely breached its DUTY to the American people, taking advantage of public trust. It is time the public gets the facts about the extreme abuses and unforgivable crimes and corruption by the 'ruling' government. Otherwise, this nation will be lost right under every citizen's nose.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. That's a very good point
Especially for a U.S. president to further his corrupt agenda by to the American people -- it is such a breach of trust that there ought to be severe consequences. One of those consequences is the responsibility of Congress, but Congress has apparently decided not to do their duty in that regard.

What other legal remedies are there for punishing elected government officials who lie to the American people? I'm sure that the First Amendment is relevant here, but there is nobody who would suggest that the First Amendment is absolute. It doesn't justify shouting fire in a crowded theatre, nor does it justify advocating or inciting a felony, nor does it justify, as you say, lying about dangerous products in order to sell them. I'd be interested in a Constitutional lawyer's take on that.
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. IIICI
Not a roman numeral!
Investigate
Impeach
Indite
Convict
Incarcerate

If corporations are considered as people why can't we incarcerate them!
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. To the greatest!
Informative, thanks for that.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Amazing post. Thank you. nt
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
Steal a lot and they make you king." --Bob Dylan, "Sweetheart Like You".

K&R. Another excellent perspective, Tfc. Thank you.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Thank you bleever -- Isn't that the truth
If you or I did something that was a tiny fraction as bad as this we'd end up in jail.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. K & R & Bookmarked
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. Another Recent Example...
U.S. Providing Funding For Nuclear Technology Going To Iran http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npp-qGnzK6U

K & R
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. That's an excellent example
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. k&r
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. This should be posted in DU Research Forum
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. cross-posted, maybe...
but i'm glad it was posted in general discussion, or virtually nobody would have seen it.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. war profiteer and war criminals
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. THANKS ... However, if you start the wars, it is WAR MONGERING!
But why nit-pick? This is the part that matters:

"... our Constitution has been willfully violated by those two criminals countless times." Enough said. Let's Impeach.

http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Aren't they both?
Warmongers AND war profiteers?
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. I don't know how this works but ...
... Don't you think that the Secret Service is hoping for impeachment and charged with War Crimes. Wouldn't they be able to walk away and leave their asses flying in the wind then ... Can anyone tell me about this.



I was thinking that maybe the SS, being privy to the crimes, but bound by honor to protect these asses, may be looking for a reason to side step a bullet.



I would not want to advocate violence unless it is truly a last resort.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. I'm not sure what you're suggesting. If members of the SS are privy to crimes,...
,...are they subject to prosecution: is that the question you're asking? If so, where does the "I would not want to advocate violence,..." fit in?

I'll say this: if a person serving as SS has direct knowledge of a crime, s/he has basically two choices. Either cya and keep silent knowing the consequences could be the state of this nation OR get the facts out as fully and quickly as possible knowing the consequences could be fatal to personal life or liberty. I suppose that person would have to choose to serve oneself or the nation/public. Either choice has serious consequences.

Sibel Edmonds has tried everything possible to accomplish BOTH self-preservation and public interest. She is still silenced.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kick for Sunday morning consumption...
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oh dear..., there's that question of intent again...
Are you sure that's polite? I mean, If we've learned anything these past years, it's that "politeness" is our highest and eternally redeeming virtue. In fact, I imagine the victims are all singing praises to us in heaven for our indefatigable politeness.

:sarcasm:

No, "ideologue" is a smokescreen. What we're seeing is exactly what it looks like - a criminal conspiracy of mind-stopping proportions. The fact that the vast majority of those enabling such a conspiracy might be termed "useful idiots" does not make it less so. (Nor does it exonerate them, as the label may seem to imply, for, despite the grand creation of a world of plausible bullshit, we still live in a universe of moral agency). The fact that "they", and their phony "think tanks", have managed to buy or intimidate anyone in a position to call it what it is, does not make it less so.

Your observations and prescription are correct, of course, and should, by now, be self-evident to all. The fact that they are not - even here - even at this late date - spells BIG TROUBLE. But we know that, and I'm not gonna go there for the 1000th time, at least, now right now.

I will say this, however:

I want assets seized. I want damages. And no, I'm not kidding. Where are the lawyers? Where are the goddamn lawyers? Is their profession worth anything? Or has it been rendered ineffective like everything else?
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Unfortunately
Lawyers can do nothing unless Judges allow it. Guess who has been stacking the deck? And for that matter criminal prosecution comes from government authorities like the DoJ. And we all remember what has been happening with that agency.



Sharpen your pitchforks folks. It is time to go after the Frankenstein monster.




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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Thanks for the reminder, wofgangmo...
...and welcome to DU! :hi:

Yeah, I kind of know that, but my naive mind rails against it.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Perhaps it should be self-evident to all -- but it's obviously not
That's partly because our corporate media hardly covers it, and also partly because it's easier to be in denial than it is to admit how bad the rulers of your country are. Getting out of denial and recognizing the truth about these things is one of the first steps towards making us a better country.
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Oh, absolutely....
...and, to that end, your excellent, informed, non-inflammatory posts provide a valuable service. (Where you get the patience, I will never know).

I get discouraged, however, at the lack of receptivity of our contemporaries, including, and perhaps especially, fellow DUers, who perception should NOT be influenced by corporate media. Where all the information is available, it seems psychology is the final determinant.

I must say I admire and recognize the importance of your farsightedness approach, even if I can't fully adopt it myself. Perhaps I'm coming to a new level though, which your writings have facilitated in a small way, as I feel there's a little opening for me to express myself, which I've not done very much.

I mean, we've all been exposed to the horrors. Some (I suspect many) of us have been traumatized. That is the truth, and another thing to not be in denial about. Hell, I've been reading Octafish for years, and don't think I've ever responded to one of his posts. It's more like, "I have to go lie down now", lol. And it's not because I'm a wuss. It's because I'm a fighter. And I get so angry, with no real outlet for that anger, that I self-destruct.

Anyway, keep up the good work, and perhaps some day it WILL all be self-evident.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ultra-extreme ideologues and war criminals in support of war profiteering.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Impeach These Treasonous Warmongers ALL
This must not strike Bush and his cronies as ironic:



As an executive branch employee, you have the opportunity to use your talent and expertise to do work that benefits the public. Sometimes, though, your government work may benefit you or your family personally. In these circumstances, the public could be concerned that you will be motivated by considerations other than your desire to do what is best for the public as a whole.



Adlai Stevenson pegged them for what they are, Traitors:

"Corruption in public office is treason."

Thank you for another excellent post, Time for change. Your work is why DU is so important.

Thanks also for your work in government. Service by you and the other good people in government is why our nation stands free -- despite the worst efforts of Bush Crime Family and the fascists they serve.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Thank you Octafish -- Regarding Bush's take on the conflict of interest statement that you refer to
I believe that Bush and his cronies see that simply as a quaint document that applies to lowly peons in govt. such as me, but which has no bearing whatsoever on superior people like them and their friends.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
55. BushCO and the neocons REALLY ARE "supremists" in their little world.
I can honestly say they do not discriminate except in power/economic terms.

They are "gods", I reckon, in their own minds. "gods" have no space for democratic notions or human rights stuff doncha' know.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Follow the money.
"Consider the consequences of failing to hold war profiteers accountable for their crimes."

We can already see the consequences. Knowing these things, why will the top two Democratic candidates NOT deal with the problem? Please force them to deal with the problem.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. They don't talk about it because they're afraid of being branded as "unpatriotic" by our corporate
news media -- which indeed they will be.

But somebody's got to do it.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. That is definitely true. Look at what is happening to Dennis for having done so.
See a quote of his in my autosig. And thanks for the excellent post. I've bookmarked it. :thumbsup:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yep its all about Money Greed and Power
the same story repeated over and over again
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trthnd4jstc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. Impeachment Now, for the Sake of The Future
I agree that we should impeach, and remove Bush, and Cheney. I would even go further, and say that there are many people, in all 3 Branches, that should be consequenced because of enacting the Neo-Conservitive philosophy upon our nation. I wonder why Raum Emmanuel, Nancy Pelosi, and other Democrats are truly against impeachment. Did they not agree to protect, and uphold the Constitution? Why does the DLC not wish to support the Constitution, maybe it is not considered the Social Contract between Us and the Government by the DLC?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. I think that her decision to take impeachment off the table is based on political calculation
I believe that she believes that an attempt to impeach, or maybe even a successful impeachment and removal from office, will hurt the Democrats' chances of picking up more Congressional seats this fall, and also hurt our chance for the presidency.

I very much disagree with that assessment, and also, for the reasons you mention, I feel that they impeachment and removal from office is extremely important regardless of political calculations.

Welcome to DU trthnd4jstc :toast:
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lies Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
33. will someone that can start a thread post this??
thanks!

What would President McCain's foreign policy be?

McCain's foreign-policy team is sprinkled with people, including Scheunemann, who were ardent backers of the 2003 Iraq invasion and who dismissed critics who warned of unintended consequences. They include former CIA Director James Woolsey, an adviser mostly on energy security, and William Kristol, the editor of the conservative Weekly Standard.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/104/story/27096.html

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. I think we need another constitutional ammendment.
This issue has been hard to deal with since at least the Civil War. The BOR provides protection against quartering troops without consent, so that must have been a political issue back then, as least as significant as war proffiteering has been for the last century. We need to end it, or at least automatically start adopting measures like the ones they used during WWII:

The Truman Committee - investigated cases of "War Profiteering" and also moved Sen. Harry Truman from relative obscurity to the Vice Presidency.

The Excess Profits Tax - enacted during WWII and Korea

Office of Price Administration, Office of Wage Administration, etc.

US Emergency Court of Appeals
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Good point -- It deserves a constitutional amendment
But just as or even more important, we need a Congress that has enough respect for the Constitution that they will hold those who violate it accountable. We may as well not have a Constitution as long as our Prez and VP feel free to ignore it, and Congress feels free to ignore the fact that they're ignoring it.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Preacher, meet choir.
It doesn't seem like any of the right people are working on any of the right solutions. This idea, the one about reforming the entire purpose for modern wars, could possibly get a little traction if it was approached in the right way.

By calling for ammending the constitution, we know the right wing sure makes a whole lot of hay with their own followers.

This could also be an additional approach to gain more unity among the people, since everyone (except freepers) hates profiteering.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
39. It's all just so mind-boggling...
and how about that 450T derivatives bubble, eh?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Yes, it's mind boggling and very sad
and it feels so oppressive.

You lost me about the 450T derivative bubble. What's that? Financial stuff baffles the hell out of me.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. We're in a fine mess on a global scale
Death, destruction and funny money for all. The Wall St. wizard$ have undermined the international markets with computer models and algorithms that claim they have assets which exist only in cyberspace. Thats hundred$ of TRILLION$ of deregulated FRAUD. The subprime fallout is a drop in the bucket. NO ONE is talking much about it, although G7 today asked that the banks "come clean." :rofl: :argh:
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I've been trying for years to find information about the Federal Reserve.
Edited on Sun Feb-10-08 11:04 PM by Usrename
Even our own Congress keeps it a big secret from itself. It's amazing, really.

edited to add>

He who tampers with the currency robs labor of its bread. - Daniel Webster
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. And when one begins to connect the dots
between the Federal Reserve and the war profiteers...
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Have you seen this?
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Hi Karenina, thanks for posting the link,
it showed a few more interesting things that I can add to my growing perspective, although there is an enormous amount of deviant history surrounding this subject that it fails to mention, in particular the wars and assassinations that lead too the door steps of those that own and control most of the worlds banks and financial systems.

Here are a couple of other videos that are great for sharing

First it helps to know how money, wealth and debt is created, this video, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en">Money As Debt, is 47 minutes long cartoon about the gold smith and how fractional reserve banking was created, you probable already know this material and may have already seen the vidio, but it is a great introductory and very informative for the beginners you might run into.

This video, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1583154561904832383 "> The Money Masters Part 1 and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-529716659023952808"> The Money Masters Part 2, together they are 3 hours long and go into great detail about the history of how our money system came into being and how it works. It will also give you an excellent sense of why they dont teach this stuff in schools, there would be a revolution in this country

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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. um, *expletive* no wonder 'democracy' is like chasing a rainbow in this nation
we have powerful enemies who thwart democracy at every opportunity
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. It is truly a sad state of affairs,
There are untold numbers of people who have unselfishly committed so much of their lives to make this world a better place too live for all. So why isnt it happening? Excuses dont have to last forever, but they do have to last long enough to forget, and forgetting is a tool of those who dont want you too remember. Unfortunately there are those who will make deals with the ladder.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. The producer of "Money as Debt"
puts it this way as he explained his motivation in making this documentary:


Money created as interest-bearing bank credit is a magic trick, a fraud - now 3 centuries old; one that very few people have seen through despite, or rather because of, its utter simplicity.

It is my intention to make this mysterious debt-money system comprehensible to everyone. It is also my intention to foster sufficient understanding of the problems with this money system that citizens will be motivated to join the monetary reform movement and/or create local alternatives to the global monetary system - a system in which most of the productive people of the world are collectively chained to an ever-increasing and perpetually unpayable debt.

This is a system designed for elite control of the people by those who have given themselves the privilege of creating money. It is also, I believe, a system that is designed for catastrophe. As the movie explains, there can be no sustainable civilization without a sustainable money system.

http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/MoneyasDebt/ProducersComments.html


Also Elizabeth Kucinich, wife of Congressman Dennis Kucinich, is a fan of "Money as Debt," and has this to say about the documentary:


Elizabeth J. Kucinich, monetary reform activist partner of
Congressman, and US Presidential aspirant, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

"I have worked for a long time looking into monetary reform and after 10 years, finally someone has produced a DVD entitled "Money as Debt". It is a fabulous fun yet powerful introduction to the issue of monetary reform. It's the best over view I have seen so far; the best by far. ESSENTIAL! Everyone should watch it!

The topic of DebtMoney is THE issue of our times. It forms the basis to every nation's areas of core material and spiritual concerns such as economic development, employment and environmental sustainability.

If only government officials, civil society organizations, environmental groups, unions and well meaning international development strategists trying to eradicate poverty really understood this topic... the world would be a much better place.

Only 47 minutes long, this DVD is ideal for public education in schools, colleges and universities, as well as individual or family viewing, with lots of juicy re-useable quotes from prominent bankers, economists and presidents."

www.moneyasdebt.net (click on the "Reviews" button)
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Thank you Johny, I have never seen that article before.
I now have it marked and filed for quick easy reference and future use.

I had also known Dennis Kucinich had something to do with the American Monetary Institute, whether a member or just a speaker I couldnt say. However I will never forget what he spoke of in one of the first debates. Mentioning the fact that not much of anything was going to be accomplished under our current debt based fractional reserve banking system. Of course saying such things made him absolutely unacceptable too the money machine that informs people as to how they will be voting, but when you do the simple math Kucinich is 100% right. In the end it will be as they say, Time to pay the Piper.

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Nope, I haven't. Thank you!
:hi:
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Hi Usrename, the Federal Reserve was a pet-peeve research project for me too.
maybe a little over a year ago. I like most other people, naively thought it was part of the Federal Government, so when I found out about what a big fraud it was, I thought I had stumbled onto something big - because as far as I was concerned - it was one of the biggest crimes committed against the American people ever which in turn precipitated the government crime of scraping the gold standard in 1933 confiscating and making it illegal for the citizens to own gold, which then led too the biggest gold heist in human history. Although that criminal law / act was repealed, which allows citizens to own gold once again unfortunately most of the gold has most likely disappeared into the secret vaults of the Economic Royals, leaving us with this worthless fractional reserve fiat paper money usury system that enslaves the majority too the minority that controls it.

Anyhow as I said, I thought I had stumbled onto something big, and as far as I was concerned - people should have been rioting in the streets - because in retrospect, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was nothing more than the criminal licensing of unelected organized corporate criminal bankers, allowing them to create and manipulate our money supply for their own personal profit, unfortunately to say thats exactly what it is today would be a gross understatement imo - just try to bring it up as an issue of discussion, you will quickly find that it is treated with such callous disregard and a non-issue that it stupefies all logic. Personally I think its a core issue of what our problems are in this country and one of those things that for some reason nobody wants to talk about it.

Heres a couple of video links that I pass around concerning the Federal Reserve, you may have already seen them if not I hope they are useful in your research.

First it helps to know how money, wealth and debt is created, this video, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en">Money As Debt, is a 47 minutes long cartoon about the gold smith and how fractional reserve banking was created, you probable already know this material and may have already seen the vidio, but it is a great introductory and very informative for the beginners you might run into.

This video, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1583154561904832383 "> The Money Masters Part 1 and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-529716659023952808"> The Money Masters Part 2, together they are 3 hours long and go into great detail about the history of how our money system came into being and how it works. It will also give you an excellent sense of why they dont teach this stuff in schools, there would be a revolution in this country

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Thank you!
I do want to review these as soon as possible. It sounds like what I have been looking for.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
47. Excellent! Thank you
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
48. Hi Dr. Dale, great OP, it sure brought out a lot of peoples insight.
I can almost see the evil for what it is. From its steeling of someones religion, ideology and national pride - too its corrupt money system that thrives on the blood, sweat and tears of normal people. So much is obvious and so much is hidden - yet somebody almost always figures it out whats missing is that final bit of understand the character of the beast at the center of it all.

I hope you are making good progress with that subject

K&R
Larry

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Thank you Larry -- It's a very very difficult subject as you know
I try to understand it, but you're right about so much being hidden -- and that makes it so much more difficult to understand.

I'm more than half done reading Ponerology. Very interesting book.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
60. I STILL simply cannot comprehend how the most inept, bungling,
obviously criminal Administration in U.S. history is still holding their respective offices.
How, WHY, is this being allowed to continue???
Reminds me of the old CCR song : "Who'll Stop The Rain?"....
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