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Name your favourite 19th century President........and why they are.

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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:05 PM
Original message
Name your favourite 19th century President........and why they are.
Have some fun with history. :)
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. This won't be close.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Wanna bet???


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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yup. And that's no criticism of Jefferson. But as a president, not close.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Jefferson DOUBLED the size of the US (without war) and Liincoln nearly HALVED it.
... with the bloodiest war in our history.

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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. He saved the Union. Others tried to "halve it."
You obviously have a problem with Lincoln.

Ever read this, his Second Inaugural? I suggest you do so. By the way, Lincoln loved Jefferson, and he enshrined the ideals of the Declaration into the fiber of this nation. They are not competitors, they are complementary. But it's ugly to blame Lincoln for the Civil War:

At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement somewhat in detail of a course to be pursued seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of the great contest which still absorbs the attention and engrosses the energies of the nation, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.

On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without warseeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.

One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. 'Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.' If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether'.

With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.



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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. By doing many of the things we criticize Bush for doing
Illegal prisons, torture of POWs, suspension of habeas. Lincoln wouldn't listen to those who thought that the South should be left to secede and then die the slow, painful death sure to doom its agrarian economy. Instead, he and the Unionists insisted on a bloody and very likely unnecessary war that left generations unable or unwilling to embrace the other regions of the US. Though I do believe that reconstruction would have been much, much better if he had not been murdered.

Lincoln did do a great many things, but I can't imagine him being placed above either Jefferson or Madison. Madison has to be the most underrated president we've had thus far.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. And an almost identical situation in grabbing immigrants
And forcing them into the Army - In Lincoln's day it was the Irish just off the boats in NY harbors, and in our day it is recruiters going to Central America and painting a rosy picture of how wonderful the cash flow will be when they are in Iraq. No mention of the dangers, or how little soldiers are really paid.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I second that
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. teddy roosavelt
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 09:12 PM by fenriswolf
the teddy bear was named after him

he was an original "rough rider"

He got shot before a speech and stayed to finish half of it before passing out.

he was "bully"

*edit: not my favorite president but my favorite charecter who was a president.

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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. He was all those things. He was also president 1901-1909.
19th century, my friend.

Oops.

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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. opps dang
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Jefferson ... by a mile.
Two terms ... scholar ... liberal ... the Founder with the greatest impact on EVERYTHING having to do with Human Rights and Civil Liberties.

Easy.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Slowly, now: We are talking presidents here. Presidents.
Again, all due respect to Thomas Jefferson. But as PRESIDENT, Lincoln was the greatest.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. except the institution of chattel slavery
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Jefferson abolished the Atlantic slave trade.
We must remember that Jefferson fought the Federalist view of national government and, to the degree he was successful, he built the foundation upon which eventual abolition was enacted. During Jefferson's Presidency we got Marbury vs. Madison ... which more fully established SCOTUS at the pinnacle of the Judiciary and thus fleshed out a viable third branch of government with the power to balance the Legislative and Executive.

IMHO, it's really not valid to assume equivalent Presidential powers when comparing Jefferson to later (and even much later) Presidents, since Jefferson was so instrumental in even creating those balanced powers in the federal government while preserving and strengthening the inviolability of individual rights. It was, imho, a deft and highly intelligent course he charted.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Actually he did not abolish the Atlantic slave trade
What he did was sign the legislation that prohibited the importation of slaves into the United States. This action had been authorized in the Constitution of the United States, before Jefferson became the President. Slaves were still imported into the Caribbean and South America. The Royal Navy was what actually ended the Atlantic slave trade, aided by the United States Navy in the 1820s.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. My fave President would be Jefferson, for so many reasons


But I include Tecumseh as another great 19th century leader, despite his being considered a minor Native American tribal leader.

He said the following:
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life.
Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people.
Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself.
Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home."

Chief Tecumseh, Shawnee Nation, quoted in Lee Sulzman, "Shawnee History"



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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thomas Jefferson, with Abraham Lincoln a close second.
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I work for workers Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. He's not my favorite, but I think Grant is underrated as a president.
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 09:24 PM by I work for workers
And as a general for that matter. He did a lot to curtail the KKK during his presidency.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. He is underrated as president. He kept the troops in the South during reconstruction.
Grant genuinely fought to protect our black citizens from the depredations they faced during Reconstruction. He made mistakes as president, but he was a personally honest man who tried to do the right thing. After he left office, the troops also left, and the horrors of Jim Crow took over for the next 90 years in the South.

He was also the first great modern general, and there is one hell of an underrated statue of him outside the Capitol - one of the finest statues in America.

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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. And He's the answer
to the Groucho Marx question as to whom is buried in his tomb.
But Lincoln was the change agent that made us part of modernity.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Wrong. The answer to "Who's buried in Grants' Tomb?" is ...
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 10:08 PM by TahitiNut
President and Mrs. Ulysses S. Grant. (Both he AND is wife are buried there.)

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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. The troops left after Grant left
because that was part of the deal of letting Rutherford Hayes become president even though Samuel Tilden was in all likelihood the real winner.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Not necessarily underrated
But certainly dismissed from any "greatest" list because of the rampant corruption in his administration. Almost makes Bush II look clean.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. James Madison
Because he wrote a good portion of the Federalist Papers, was one of the leading authors of the Constitution and scribe and note-taker of the Constitutional Convention, pretty much authored the Bill of Rights and pushed it through Congress and, after having been double-crossed by the British with regard to trade and the boarding of American vessels and taking prisoners by the British Navy, finished the fight for American sovereignty and independence from England. Also, because he married Dolly Madison one of our great First Ladies.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. James Buchanan aka "Aunt Fancy"-the first gay president!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Buchanan

In 1819 Buchanan was engaged to Ann Caroline Coleman, the daughter of a wealthy iron manufacturing businessman and sister-in-law of Philadelphia judge Joseph Hemphill, a colleague of Buchanan's from the House of Representatives. However, Buchanan spent little time with her during the courtship; Buchanan was extremely busy with his law firm and political projects at the time, taking him away from Coleman for weeks at a time. Conflicting rumors abounded, opining that he was marrying for her money as he came from a less affluent family, or that he was involved with other women. Buchanan, for his part, never publicly spoke of his motives or feelings, however, letters from Ann revealed she was paying heed to the rumors, and after Buchanan paid a visit to the wife of a friend, Ann broke off the engagement. Ann soon after died; the records of Dr. Chapman, who looked after Ann in her final hours, and who said just after her passing that this was "the first instance he ever knew of hysteria producing death," reveal that he theorized the woman's demise was caused by an overdose of laudanum.<5>

His fiance's death struck Buchanan. In a letter to her father which was returned to him unopened Buchanan said "It is now no time for explanation, but the time will come when you will discover that she, as well as I, have been much abused. God forgive the authors of it... I may sustain the shock of her death, but I feel that happiness has fled from me forever."<6> The Coleman family became bitter towards Buchanan, and denied him a place at Ann's funeral.<7> Buchanan vowed he would never marry, though he continued to be flirtatious, and some pressed him to seek a wife. In response he said "Marry he could not, for his affections were buried in the grave." He preserved Ann Coleman's letters, kept them with him throughout his life, and requested they be burned upon his death.<5>

For fifteen years in Washington, D.C., prior to his presidency, Buchanan lived with his close friend, Alabama Senator William Rufus King<8>. King became Vice President under Franklin Pierce. He took ill and died shortly after Pierce's inauguration, and four years before Buchanan became President. Buchanan and King's close relation prompted Andrew Jackson to refer to King as "Miss Nancy" and "Aunt Fancy," while Aaron V. Brown spoke of the two as "Buchanan and his wife."<9><10> Further, some of the contemporary press also speculated about Buchanan and King's relationship. Buchanan and King's nieces destroyed their uncles' correspondence, leaving some questions as to what relationship the two men had, but surviving letters illustrate "the affection of a special friendship",<9> and Buchanan wrote of his "communion" with his housemate. Such expression, however, was not unusual amongst men at the time. Though the circumstances surrounding Buchanan and King have led some to speculate that he was America's first homosexual president, there is currently no evidence that King and Buchanan had a sexual relationship.<9>

The only President never to marry, Buchanan turned to Harriet Lane, an orphaned niece whom he had earlier adopted, to act as his First Lady. "I feel that it is not good for man to be alone", he wrote, "and should not be astonished to find myself married to some old maid who can nurse me when I am sick, provide good dinners for me when I am well, and not expect from me any very ardent or romantic affection."<11><12>
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. .
Edited on Wed Feb-06-08 03:27 PM by LeftinOH
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Buchanan may have been gay (that's not entirely clear) but he still was a rotten president.
A true do-nothing president who sat on his ass while the nation burned.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Honest Abe. Not even close.
Edited on Wed Feb-06-08 03:18 PM by kestrel91316
BTW, did I mention I own a dining table that was sat at for years by a man who, when he was young, worked in Abe's Springfield office, and whose father was one of Abe's best friends? The man's daughter, who he lived with when old, was my grandfather's employer for several years in NE. And when she died he got the table, which passed eventually to me.

True story, and totally OT.

This is one of my favorite family history tales. The famous table, lol.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. Chester A. Arthur. Because he saved the U.S. Navy.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. Lincoln, say what you will about him
he did save the union and by doing so he signed the Emancipation Proclamation. We couldn't survive as half slave and half free. Yeah, some argue we should have just let the South go...and along with it the freedom of millions of negros. I know the war wasn't originally supposed to be about slavery but eventually it did--thanks to the Emancipation. Yes, he did do things which many of us disagree in terms of civil liberties, but in a civil war maybe that was the only course. He also did many kind and compassionate things. He could have easily have cancelled the congressional elections of 1862 (in which Dems gained ground) or the 1864 election, especially since for the longest time it appeared that Lincoln might lose, but he didn't. It's the nations tragedy that he died early in his second term without being the one to handle the reconciliation of the union--instead of the racist policies of Andrew Johnson.

My second choice? John Q. Adams.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Sam Houston
You didn't say president of what.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. LOL!
Good one!
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SmellsLikeDeanSpirit Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Lincoln is my pick aswell.
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