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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:53 PM
Original message
Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I
Edited on Tue Feb-05-08 05:55 PM by marmar
from OurFuture.org:




Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I
By Sara Robinson

February 4th, 2008 - 4:23pm ET


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2008 is shaping up to be the election year that we finally get to have the Great American Healthcare Debate again. Harry and Louise are back with a vengeance. Conservatives are rumbling around the talk show circuit bellowing about the socialist threat to the (literal) American body politic. And, as usual, Canada is once again getting dragged into the fracas, shoved around by both sides as either an exemplar or a warning -- and, along the way, getting coated with the obfuscating dust of so many willful misconceptions that the actual facts about How Canada Does It are completely lost in the melee.

I'm both a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and an uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border. As such, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If we're going to have this conversation, it would be great if we could start out (for once) with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here.

To that end, here's the first of a two-part series aimed at busting the common myths Americans routinely tell each other about Canadian health care. When the right-wing hysterics drag out these hoary old bogeymen, this time, we need to be armed and ready to blast them into straw. Because, mostly, straw is all they're made of.

1. Canada's health care system is "socialized medicine."
False. In socialized medical systems, the doctors work directly for the state. In Canada (and many other countries with universal care), doctors run their own private practices, just like they do in the US. The only difference is that every doctor deals with one insurer, instead of 150. And that insurer is the provincial government, which is accountable to the legislature and the voters if the quality of coverage is allowed to slide.

The proper term for this is "single-payer insurance." In talking to Americans about it, the better phrase is "Medicare for all."

2. Doctors are hurt financially by single-payer health care.
True and False. Doctors in Canada do make less than their US counterparts. But they also have lower overhead, and usually much better working conditions. A few reasons for this:

First, as noted, they don't have to charge higher fees to cover the salary of a full-time staffer to deal with over a hundred different insurers, all of whom are bent on denying care whenever possible. In fact, most Canadian doctors get by quite nicely with just one assistant, who cheerfully handles the phones, mail, scheduling, patient reception, stocking, filing, and billing all by herself in the course of a standard workday.

Second, they don't have to spend several hours every day on the phone cajoling insurance company bean counters into doing the right thing by their patients. My doctor in California worked a 70-hour week: 35 hours seeing patients, and another 35 hours on the phone arguing with insurance companies. My Canadian doctor, on the other hand, works a 35-hour week, period. She files her invoices online, and the vast majority are simply paid -- quietly, quickly, and without hassle. There is no runaround. There are no fights. Appointments aren't interrupted by vexing phone calls. Care is seldom denied (because everybody knows the rules). She gets her checks on time, sees her patients on schedule, takes Thursdays off, and gets home in time for dinner.

One unsurprising side effect of all this is that the doctors I see here are, to a person, more focused, more relaxed, more generous with their time, more up-to-date in their specialties, and overall much less distracted from the real work of doctoring. You don't realize how much stress the American doctor-insurer fights put on the day-to-day quality of care until you see doctors who don't operate under that stress, because they never have to fight those battles at all. Amazingly: they seem to enjoy their jobs.

Third: The average American medical student graduates $140,000 in hock. The average Canadian doctor's debt is roughly half that.

Finally, Canadian doctors pay lower malpractice insurance fees. When paying for health care constitutes a one of a family's major expenses, expectations tend to run very high. A doctor's mistake not only damages the body; it may very well throw a middle-class family permanently into the ranks of the working poor, and render the victim uninsurable for life. With so much at stake, it's no wonder people are quick to rush to court for redress.

Canadians are far less likely to sue in the first place, since they're not having to absorb devastating financial losses in addition to any physical losses when something goes awry. The cost of the damaging treatment will be covered. So will the cost of fixing it. And, no matter what happens, the victim will remain insured for life. When lawsuits do occur, the awards don't have to include coverage for future medical costs, which reduces the insurance company's liability. ............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i



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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, doctors in Canada do pretty well monetarily.
Here's a site that gives data on what they earn by specialty and it's not exactly the grapes of wrath.
http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=AR_82_E
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fantastic post and it corresponds to what I have been able
to research on the Canadian system, both on line on the Canadian Medicare website and talking to Canadians. Also, Michael Moore shows how Canada's system works in his movie "Sicko". I think this movie would be a good one to give as gifts for birthdays and other occasions from now until election day as well as Christmas so that Americans can know what to tell the incoming new President what they want in health care.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Canadian Doctors don't have to spend as much for Malpractics Insurance either
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for the link. Great piece.
Like the author of the article, I'm an American living in Canada, and I thought her observations about the differences between the two systems are dead-on (without the exception of point 9 in her article, which seems a bit far-fetched).

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. We absolutely need such a system here in the United States
Thank you for posting this, I intend to bookmark it and reference some of the people I know who, everytime the subject comes up, repeat the mantra that Canada has "socialized medicine." Excellent info.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for posting this - and K&R!!!
As an American living in Canada, I am always astounded at the misinformation that passes as fact about the Canadian healthcare system - although I never have to wonder where such misinformation originates ...

:kick:
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. EXCELLENT points
I'd never considered the advantage of single-payer from the doctor's perspective.

Funny how we never hear this from the doctors themselves.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I imagine
the AMA is very afraid of losing the power the currently have in the system
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A HERETIC I AM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for posting. Bookmarked the website. n/t
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R. We need a new forum on Single Payer
Who's with me? This is great information and we need to compile it all in one place.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You could post it in the Health Forum where a lot of single payer
universal health care information goes.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I never thought of that, but a single/universal/whatever health care forum is a great idea....
.... Considering the number of healthcare-related posts in GD and elsewhere.....


I'm with you....

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. .
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Jokinomx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for the post!!!
I appreciate your posting this link. I found it very worthwhile reading. I had been looking for a good site to send to my Mom. She has heard so many lies and mis-truths, hopefully she will start seeing thru it all.

:toast:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent post -- thank you! k&r (nt)
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Find me a DUer who opposes single-payer
Thanks for posting! :hi:

But I have this suspicion that you won't get an argument around here. If there were any DUers who were against it, they have likely been converted by now.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-06-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yet another Canadian here
The main issue in Canadian health care right now is wait times both for simple appointments and surgeries. The problem is the population is growing faster than they can churn doctors out of schools or import them and train them up to our standards.

Be that as it may, the last time I had a medical emergency (I collapsed at work), it was ruinously expensive:

:sarcasm:

Ambulance - $0
Emergency room visit - $0
Cardiologist - $0
Hookup to fancy machinery - $0
Follow up visit to special clinic - $0
Follow up hookup to machinery - $0
Vending machine - $5.00

:sarcasm:

Full disclosure, I do have Blue Cross 1/2 pay with my employer.
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