I'm losing hope if we are seeing McCain emerge as Repub candidate. Talk me out of it!

[CTyankee]

I'm imagining how any of our candidates would do against McCain and I'm getting more and more depressed. Here's why:

*McCain's candidacy will be seen as acceptable to most Republicans. They'll view him as "different" from Bush so it'll be "OK" to vote for him. They won't leave their party and come in droves to the Democratic Party, as we had so fondly hoped.

*The Democratic Party has become indelibly linked to black, inner city folks and to pointy headed liberal academics. "The poor and the precious" as Matt Bai describes us. Therefore, we are written off before we get out of the gate.

*The worst racists and mysogynists are in the Republican Party. Neither of our top two candidates will be acceptable to them, no way, no how. You cannot debate with these people as they are brain damaged by their unreasoning bigotry. They may nod their heads when we talk about issues of tax fairness and the futility of the Iraq War. But in their minds they just can't see themselves voting for a Democrat for president.

*Voting Republican is comfortable to lots of people who would not consider themselves "political." Say what you will about the Republicans, they have done a good job of making our party look like an alien species, unconnected to what "real" Americans think.

Like most of you, I've tried to win over this kind of voter only to have them, eventually, say something that tips me off that they are going to go right out and vote Republican just like they did 4 years ago and 8 years ago. McCain makes it easier for them to claim they want something "different" while sticking to their old ways of thinking.

Got any hope for this depressed Democrat?

[vi5]

1. I'm of the same frame of mind...

..and even more depressed because I don't find any hope against him from our top two candidates. Maybe (only maybe) if Obama is the nominee it will set up enough of a young/old juxtaposition to make it a race. Even that I'm doubtful of.

[jasmine621]

46. Leave it Rush. He will help us. They hate McCain as do many

conservatives. They won't vote for a Dem but they will stay home. Look at the numbers on voting day.

[Hamlette]

2. we have him coming and going: unending war and he knows nothing about the economy or how to fix it

many pundits hate him but people who call themselves "true conservatives" hate McCain. I'm not sure they will get out and fight for him. (Talked to one yesterday, I think, although he didn't say, it was his vote on campaign finance reform that turned this guy off.)

If the war is heats up, 100 years in Iraq won't be a good message. If the economy is bad, his "I don't know much about how the economy works" statement will hut him.

[ProgressiveFool]

61. I can just see an anti-McCain commercial called "Don't know much"

Set to the tune of Sam Cooke's "Wonderful World".

Don't know much about the economy,
Don't know much geography
Don't know much about recovering jobs
Don't care much about you working slobs

But I do know that I love war,
And I know that if you love war, too
What a wonderful war, it would be

[BlueManDude]

3. I'm more concerned with maintaining and expanding our congressional majorities and...

making further progress in state legislatures. It SHOULD be a good year for Dems but I think a Clinton nomination would hurt that momentum. A fall campaign centered around the whole Clinton marriage drama bullshit anf filled with endless armchair psycho-analysis would be demoralizing and devastating. In short - while Obama will also lose to McCain I think the Dems would do very well down ballot anyway. He will be somebody that all Dems will be pround to run with. If the nominee is Clinton then you will see downballot Dems running away from her hard and fast. It will hurt in November.

[Sadie4629]

4. Don't worry about McCain

"The True Conservatives" (Limbaugh listeners) will NEVER vote for him, and I really don't think the evangelicals will either. They'll sit this election out. Without those two factions, the GOP can't win.

[backscatter712]

5. I think Obama can win it.

He's got a good message, and he has what just about everyone else in the race lacks - charisma.

There are a lot of independents, moderates, and even *gasp* conservatives that like Obama, and the cool thing is that Obama manages this without pulling a Lieberman and selling out the base.

[CTyankee]

8. I hope for just this kind of breakthru, because it has worked for Dems in the past.

If we get the breakthru, plus get the neo-cons and evangelicals sitting it out, we have a decent chance.

The Kennedy's might be envisioning the breakthru. It seems to be the gist of what they were saying and the message of Caroline's new campaign ad for Obama. His other ads, now running in CT, are speaking more specifically about his plans, which has been a major complaint of some Dems, including me.

We can also hope for anger and/or complete despair on the part of the neo-cons and evangelicals. We must hope that they will go into a multi-year funk, thinking perhaps that their day is over so onto to something else in their lives. Hope for their hopelessness; they've earned it, they deserve it.

[Virginia Dare]

6. I think McCain is a very weak candidate..

his fundraising abilities have been piss poor. He doesn't have a stirring or resonating message, and the republicans have not been coming out in droves to vote for him. Plus, he has publicly said that he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years. Does that give you a little hope?

[CTyankee]

13. Yes, for some undecided voters. Others will vote for McCain and ignore

the 100 years in Iraq statement. These people are some of the most devastated people in our economy. They see the devastation in their own lives and then choose to blame the poor for getting all the assistance, leaving them (the middle class, as they think of themselves) out. With the Dems, they think they'll get more of the same or worse.

I never saw anything like the "get out the vote" effort on behalf of John Kerry in 04. America Coming Together, backed by millions of Soros' dollars, sent out thousands of "boots on the ground" to get our message out. Unfortunately, these people already had their boots firmly entrenched on the ground, and they had their own network in churches and local political organizations. The ACT activists were just "outside agitators." It was a sobering lesson.

[Virginia Dare]

23. I don't think you will see the fundies..

mobilize for McCain like they did for Bush. Remember, they're disillusioned too. They thought that there would be a law forcing each and every American to pray before Jesus by now. We're close, but no cigar. McCain just doesn't have a lot more to offer them. Unlike Bush, the repub base is just not motivated for him. Limbaugh and the other right wing loonies have been trashing him for months.

McCain doesn't have a message of hope for the middle or lower classes. He basically says sorry you're screwed so deal with it. I just don't see him as all that formidable right now. A smartly run campaign by the Dems could easily take him. Granted, that's far from a given.

[CTyankee]

35. i want to believe that you are right. I hope the fundies just give up in despair.

I'm sure that McCain will move further right during the restof the primaries,then move center if he is the nominee and try to reassure the people who often call themselves Independents but vote Republican EVERY time. However, according to an exit poll elsewhere here on DU the McCain voters in FL were moderates on social issues and they were Republicans! You would think that those voters would have deserted the Republican Party by now. Why do you think they haven't?

[Virginia Dare]

44. Could be many reasons..

lots of senior citizens in Florida who are reliable voters, and probably vote for one party or the other out of loyalty/habit. Or they may see a chance to take the party back from the fundies, lots of Floridians are from New York and points north, and not traditional southern voters.

By all accounts though, repubs have had a very low turn-out so far in every state. I think that's a good sign. They don't appear to be too energized yet. Of course, things could always change.

[CTyankee]

47. Your reasoning makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I'm sure the demographic breaks pretty much that way. The older voters voting for the older candidate, which is not going to be the way it will be in the GE...

[UTUSN]

7. His words to beat him: 1-Jobs won't come back. 2-Immigrants won't go home. 3-More wars.

Plus, he's said to have a violent temper. How does he manage to present himself as this soft-spoken dweeb all the time. Well, except when he gave Maria SHRIVER a tongue lashing.

But, not relieving the o.p.'s anxiety:


This was the local radio talkshow wingnut's response to the KENNEDYs' endorsements.


**********QUOTE*********

She's still ahead nationally and tough and dedicated.

I don't want to cause a heart attack or a stroke, but the next President will be a Republican. albeit a non-George Bush type.

She cannot be elected--too divisive. And her /their attacks on Obama revealed to regular folks just how ugly they can be in their entitledness. He doesn't deserve it. HE is too green. Change. OK, to what? From what I can see he arrives at the same place as she does but the journey is different.

I just think that voters will not want her if she is the nominee and he will be seen as too inexperienced.

If she is the nominee, I would bet black people will feel they've been done to again. I wouldn't count on too enthusiastic support from regular folks.

We'll get a Republican and most everyone will be unhappy with the choice. But I gotta warn you, I haven't had my meds today, so I may not be thinking clearly.

I also take a perverse pleasure in watching any of the political classes in a roil.

***********UNQUOTE***********

[Justitia]

9. McCain's achilles heel is his temper. We need to make him lose his shit on teevee.

When he gets all red-faced & pissy he loses his cool and looks unhinged.

We need to be poking him with a sharp stick whenever possible.

[Virginia Dare]

24. That and his health...n/t

[Poiuyt]

26. That and his age

He just looks old and feeble.

[Virginia Dare]

27. But his wife and kids are pretty...

:shrug:

[Poiuyt]

30. Well in that case I hope Mike Huckabee gets it

because I think Chuck Norris's wife is really hot!

[Virginia Dare]

31. She is indeed....n/t

[spanone]

10. wake up and smell reality....this nation has had it with this war....

[gratuitous]

12. That's it

And McCain is just a couple of years older than dirt. He has no money. He doesn't have a natural Republican base. His flip-flops on practically any subject you can name are all a matter of record, and if he thinks it will get him more votes, he'll even change his stance on torture.

[CTyankee]

20. As an older person myself, I find myself wondering if McCain will just keel over

on the campaign trail and then I slap myself silly for bringing bad karma down on me. I too hope his weaknesses as compared to a younger, more vibrant candidate, will eventually bring him down...

[spoony]

11. I respectfully disagree

McCain isn't going to energise the Republican voters. The right-wingers hate him for the campaign reform bill and a laundry list of nits they pick. And the moderates won't be thrilled by his dogged commitment to staying in Iraq until the end of time. A lot of them are going to stay home, I bet.

You're right about the misogynists and racists though. But they were never going to come over and vote with us anyway. Even if our nominee was a gleaming white man's man. There may be some mobilisation to keep a woman or black man out of office, but I just don't think it's going to compensate for the apathy (and even loathing) their party-mates feel for McCain.

[lonestarnot]

16. And you would be oh so correct!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

48. A lot of Republicans don't like his stance on immigration

I recall that even die-hard conservatives like Sean Hannity had problems with McCain's moderate "soft" position on immigration reform last year. That may lead a lot of conservatives to refuse to support him in the general election.

[Tesha]

14. If McCain emerges as the candidate, we have no/slim hope.

> Talk me out of it!

Nope, you're correct.

If McCain emerges as the candidate and we run HRC, we
have no hope. The only thing you can hope for is that
McCain doesn't win *ALL* fifty states.

If McCain emerges as the candidate and we run BHO, then
we have the slim hope that maybe much of America has
actually become less racist than it used to be. BHO
doesn't actually stand for anything, but he doesn't
generate the sort of "Hate right out of the Gate"
that HRC generates, so he *MIGHT* be electable.

But as I've stated elsewhere, I'd get used to the idea
of saying "President McCain".

Tesha

[lonestarnot]

18. McDrain bbbboooo ya! puke

Not afraid.

[Tesha]

21. And nobody here was afraid that John Kerry would lose to the *WORST PRESIDENT EVER* either.

> Not afraid.

And nobody here was afraid that John Kerry would lose
o the *WORST PRESIDENT EVER* either.

But lose he did.

Tesha

[Virginia Dare]

25. McCain does not have the backing or the resources..

of the Bush Crime Syndicate, and he never will.

[Tesha]

32. Are you kidding? The Republican machine will line up behind McCain. (NT)

[Virginia Dare]

34. Two different things...n/t

[Tesha]

37. I understand that and I stand by my point. (NT)

[lonestarnot]

28. Now a cheat, you didn't mention that!

:scared:

[Tesha]

33. Yes, those tactics will still be in play too.

But it's likely that JFK actually did manage to
lose the popular vote to *THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER*.

Tesha

[lonestarnot]

45. Sorry but I have no doubt that he DID NOT!

[Tesha]

51. Whatever floats your boat.

But you'd think that anyone running against the *WORST
PRESIDENT EVER* would have won by an unstealable margin
(and then, if a theft were attempted, would have actually
fought back against the theft).

Tesha

[lonestarnot]

54. With all the vote flipping that may have been. We will never know.

[DemGa]

15. I gotta say the women's vote for Hillary

And I will add that Hillary hate is mostly Republicans and the outer edges of the left wing, and so it's not truly reflective of the median.

My concern is that Obama will remain the darling of the media, and this could be a major influence--until a nomination of course--then we will lose our collective a**.

[AlCzervik]

17. well i disagree, i think this election will be like 1996 and lots of repubes will be staying home.

look at Florida, the dems vote for a candidate didn't even count yesterday and their numbers were only a little less than the gopers, imo that says something.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Hide your sons and daughters.

[LSK]

22. he thinks the Iraq war is a good idea

He will get traunced in the General.

[lonestarnot]

29. And wants more wo in all parts of the world.

War on the cakes over there in Haiti!

[CK_John]

36. I don't believe the GOP will let him. See my post for reason.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4279595>

[Virginia Dare]

40. I believe you could be right on that..

I've said for a while that it will be Mittsy in the end. The Bush Crime Syndicate backs him, very quietly, that's what makes it so scary. He's got a bottomless money pit too, and McCain's fundraising skills are anemic.

[CTyankee]

41. who will be the Republican candidate in your opinion?

Say more about your thinking here cuz I am interested...

[CK_John]

59. IMO, it has to be a woman able to take on Hillary and with neocon support.

Since this is all or nothing for them, Lynne Cheney or Elaine Cho come to mind.

Also a Melinda Gates/Bloomberg ticket is possible.

[Old and In the Way]

38. We'll kick his frail white ass.

His time has come and gone. 1/2 the Republicans, especially the ones with the megaphones, hate him. He's clueless on the economy and extremist on the war. That tape of "Bomb, Bomb, Iran" will make a great attack ad. I couldn't be more pleased with McCain becoming the Republican standard-bearer.

[1awake]

39. The problem is

Many of the RW people see McCain as far to liberal for their taste. Now, if thats the case, what do you think they will see in Hillary or Obama? No, they will back McCain in force with little doubt. And if nothing else, one thing RW's and many moderates agree on, is a Hatred of the Clintons. Hillary in the GE will motivate the RW machine like never before, and that's why they want her to run against. I am not saying this to try and get people to not support Hillary. I simply see it as fact. And if either group of supporters think the GE will be an easy win, your deluding yourself. Both groups better quit the in-fighting and be prepared to back, in force, whoever gets the nod.

[Virginia Dare]

42. It's setting up to be another death match between..

the Bush faction and the Clinton faction...could be interesting..:popcorn:

[bryant69]

43. The REpublican base hates McCain with a passion

Any reasonable third party candidate could pull votes aside, and even if none emerges the sort of people who will march and rally and fund a McCain campaign won't. They'll stay home and hold on to their money.

Yeah, we aren't big fans of Obama or Clinton around here, but it's nothing compared with the hatred over there.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Ganja Ninja]

49. There's a reason McCain almost washed out early on in this race.

He really is the candidate of last resort. When he has to go head to head with the Dem nominee he will have to go back to the same talking points that almost killed his candidacy early on. He has no money, not much charisma and he's about as un-informed on the issues as he could possibly be. When he goes one on one in a debate with the Dem nominee they will mop the floor with him. Trust me when I say that he's going down like Rudy when he has to go head to head with the Dem nominee.

[CTyankee]

56. A couple of things

*If McCain gets momentum behind him, the money will follow. It won't be from the fundies of course, but perhaps big business if they think he's viable.

*Forget winning debates. I remember being so thrilled after Kerry demolished Bush in all 3 debates, esp. the first one. It didn't mean diddly. Nobody cared because nobody saw them. This is the kind of thinking that gets us in trouble, IMHO. We think people view these debates, if they view them at all, rationally. We've learned that isn't the case...

But, you've given me some hope to think about all of the pitfalls McCain can hazard into...

[Ganja Ninja]

62. Money isn't going to the GOP like it use to.

Even if McCain gets momentum a lot of the business money won't be going to him. It seems the war and corruption of the GOP has made those donors more than a little nervous about the economic consequences of staying the course.

I think in general people are skeptical of the GOP and so I wouldn't dismiss the debates too quickly. If he starts spouting the delusional Bush talking points about what a success the war is and how well the economy is doing, like he was in Iowa, he's going to get his ass kicked.

[NoPasaran]

50. John "Less Jobs More Wars" McCain

John "We'll be in Iraq for a thousand years. Ten thousand years, if that's what it takes" McCain

Obama or Clinton will beat him like a rented mule.

[blondeatlast]

52. McCain's message: Why worry about your job that isn't coming back? You, your kids, their kids,

and their kids will proudly be serving in __________ .

A) Iraq
B) Iran
C) Afghanistan
D) Venezuela
E) Pakistan
F) An oil-rich country yet to be identified, but the good folks at BP are working diligently to find it. The open seas are a prime possibility!

[alfredo]

53. He's ugly, has a bad temper, and is not liked by his own party.

Did I mention that he's ugly?

[applegrove]

55. Immigration. The dems will bring up immigration as the day is long.

Immigration all the time. I can see it now. That will sink him with "his" base in the South.

[CTyankee]

57. Will they see the Dems any more favorably on the immigration issue?

That's the catch-22 here...

[applegrove]

58. No but then they vote with their financial self interest for Dems once

they realize the "patriotic" anti-immigration thing is fouey.

[MadHound]

60. Hell, I'm not only depressed by McCain,

But also by the fact that with Edwards out of the race, the only nominally populist left, we are now stuck with corporate whore one and corporate whore two as our choices.

None of this bodes well for our country.

[Tesha]

63. There's a cartoon waiting in here somewhere...

> But also by the fact that with Edwards out of the race, the
> only nominally populist left, we are now stuck with corporate
> whore one and corporate whore two as our choices.

There's a cartoon waiting in here somewhere:



Tesha