So there were no WMDs, Saddam was not aligned with bin laden

[MindPilot]

and we are in an un-winnable, unstoppable war and trillions in debt basically over a PERSONAL FUCKING VENDETTA.
FUCK! FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!FUCK!

And all you Democrats who "saw the intelligence" and voted to let Bush do it, fuck you too! :grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Most of the world knew that six years ago, but the MSM is just begining to notice?!:grr::grr::grr:

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Unless you were willing to listen to Scott Ritter, and a couple of

Knight-Ridder journalists, the only information was coming from official government sources.

It's easy to see the answers after somebody shows you the answers. I & maybe you weren't fooled, but then again I'm a wise guy who had the luxury of believing Scott Ritter.

[MindPilot]

2. I have a signed copy of "End Game".

So no, that 60 Minutes piece is no revelation to me, but I'm extraordinarily pissed that it's being reported as these breathtaking new discoveries.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. I'll bet that book sold 3000 copies. The only publicity he got at the

time was about that scandal thing. He had the WMD thing completely and utterly nailed nailed. He had been there when they destroyed all the plants.

In 2003 they even accused him of working for the Iraq government!

[JackRiddler]

3. Gee golly, that didn't stop 23 senators from doing the right thing.

They must have been reckless young ones with lots of "luxury." How irresponsible.

And how could anyone in a position of responsibility "risk" listening to the actual weapons inspector who would know what the hell he was talking about, instead of Tinpot Cheney and his Thinktank Warriors? Or, my, my, actually be aware of the track records of these people?

And really, we can't expect politicians to strain their little heads with logic in deconstructing inherently contradictory and absurd claims about how Saddam did 9/11 and wants to nuke Brooklyn when these are made by a PRESIDENT, can we? Oh, heavens.

Nor can we expect them to read Knight-Ridder, or be aware of what is in ALL OF THE FOREIGN PRESS, can we? Oh no no.

Poor poor little politicians, so weak, so cruelly misled...

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Seems to me the issue was one of Constitutional Authority

at the time, not much doubt about Saddam. Anyway, those senators had the luxury of voting that way since it was going & to pass by an overwhelming majority.

[lligrd]

4. How About Simple Common Sense?

That is what most of us here relied upon.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. That's so easy to say isn't it?

If only everyone was as smart as you are!

[lligrd]

7. I'd Sure Like Those Running The Country To Be At Least

as smart as I am. Actually, I'd prefer they were significantly smarter but apparently that is not the case.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. How much smarter could people actually be?

Anyhow, there was a time pre-Iraq invasion when there was still a notion that the official government line on matters this grave were free of defects. It had been years since anything like this had been done & it had all been forgotten, there was faith in the system back then.

[lligrd]

10. One Could Look At The Motives of Those Instigating A War

One could also look at the characters involved and know that they would not hesitate to lie. One might also think it was ridiculous that we would ever be in any danger even in Saddam did have some minor WMDs. And it was actually fairly common knowledge that Bin Laden and Saddam couldn't stand each other.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. 6 years on it's pretty clear. Again, at the time those guys were

considered the "adults". They were highly respected & their sober judgment wasn't questioned by anybody that mattered. Look at the press
following the Colin Powell Speech at the UN sometime for the real flavor of what kind of wild frenzy the vast majority (80%?) was in about the idea of war & the threat that Saddam posed.

I used to get into big arguments on DU about how it was all bullshit & there were no WMD. DUer's would be all, your nuts! They GOT to have 'em, because they said so!

[EstimatedProphet]

27. You're right

I had a discussion with an instructor for training I was going through (in 2006, mind you!) who said that they had to have WMDs, because they wouldn't have spent so much time looking for them if they didn't! Monumentally stupid, but people unfortunately think that way.

[Marr]

11. It wasn't hard to see what was happening.

Anyone who cared to investigate the subject beyond Judith Miller's articles could do so. The foreign press had plenty of stories that contradicted the Bush Administration's line. Maybe you can't expect the average American to have seen it, but politicians most certainly had the resources. I've no doubt they knew what the score was.

I expect most of our politicians assumed the Bush Administration would be able to cover it's ass on the bogus WMD charge in one way or another. They'd find enough forgotten stashes to justify themselves, or they'd plant it, or whatever-- and whoever (rightly) voted against the IWR would be portrayed as a coward.

Most of our politicians simply chose to cover their own asses rather than do the right thing-- I think that's pretty obvious.

The IWR itself suggests as much. They made sure to put the onus on the Bush Administration, and just sidestepped their own responsibility. It's an "if you think it's a good idea, then ok..." sort of thing. They knew what was going on, and they were aware of the risks-- the risk of not finding WMD, the risk of having the occupation go south, etc. They were fine with it, so long as they could distance themselves from the fallout and preserve their own careers.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. You can't say any of that for sure, can you?

You can suppose anything you want, but it don't make it so.

[Marr]

18. Which part?

I can say for certain that the foreign press had plenty of reports debunking the Bush Administration's claims prior to the invasion.

I cannot say for certain that our politicians knew what any European with a television set knew, no. They could, I suppose, be intensely stupid, incurious, and happy to make momentous decisions in complete ignorance. I don't see how that's any better (and it sounds rather unlikely), but it's possible, sure.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. Your observations were obviously too casual

Those of us who were really paying attention knew how farcical this whole charade was from the get-go.

How anyone in politics with half a brain could have truly believed that a 3rd world tin-pot dictator of the world's most surveilled, most sanctioned, most bombed country for the previous 12 years could somehow have developed weapons of mass destruction that could have reached around the globe, is beyond my understanding.

[Virginia Dare]

37. Or that the U.N. inspectors could have somehow "missed" them...n/t

[Old and In the Way]

13. And we have the luxury of being accountable only to ourselves.

If I'm being fed intel that says Saddam is an immediate threat and they have drones flying on the Eastern seaboard and mushroom clouds are only 45 minutes away....do I want to gamble with my constituents lives that it's not true?

That said, those that were blatantly lied to now have a moral obligation to demand impeachment for what is now clearly a concerted effort by this administration to mislead Congress into this quagmire in Iraq.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. They weren't that dumb. They have official CIA Intel that backs up

all their claims. The fact that they cooked the Intel is twice removed from the whole thing. They haven't been impeached because it was all done "legally" & they all know it. It's like going after OJ Simpson.

[MindPilot]

29. And that is exactly where the system is broken. n/t

[MindPilot]

31. "do I want to gamble with my constituents lives that it's not true?"

Clearly no, BUT, when handed a claim that outrageous and contradictory to what was widely known at the time I think you have an even bigger responsibility to your constituents to investigate a little deeper.

[zanne]

38. Do you really believe that Senators were "fooled"?

They voted for the IWR because of political expedience. Now they want it all to go away, but we remember.

[Xenotime]

16. Are you FUCKING Serious?!? When did this come out?

[BlackVelvet04]

17. 60 Minutes tonight. n/t

[Kajsa]

30. That was one of the best interviews I've seen

on 60 minutes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494.shtml

[Virginia Dare]

36. The MSM is having lots of "DUH" moments now..

that the chimp era is winding down, it's a good possibility the Dems will be fully in control soon, and lots and lots of this crap is going to come out into the open.

[BlackVelvet04]

41. I have a feeling it's going to

be incredibly shocking to the ones who trusted this administration.

[Virginia Dare]

42. and damning to those who covered for him..

that would be the entire MSM.

[Kajsa]

43. I believe you're right, Virginia.

The lies are surfacing for all to see,now.

[and-justice-for-all]

19. I am begining to think that shrubCo invaded for Saudi Arabia to..

and not just for his own gradification. There is a grand connection between the US and the House Of Saud that goes back 60 years. There is a connection between the Iraq invasion and Saudi Arabia, I do not doubt it for a second.

[Binka]

20. Of Course SA Was A Factor. Their death Grip On The Region Needed To Solidify.

This was a present to SA from Poppy though his fuckwit son. Poppy couldn't get it done in one term. It is your typical Mafia family kind of transaction. The Gambinos are pikers compared with these fuckers.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. you should see this documentary..

www.stage6.com/user/jimpomer/video/2122521/house-of-saud-pbs

[Virginia Dare]

35. Apparently Jr. fucked it up then..

because by all accounts the King has no use for him. Who does, for that matter.

[CJCRANE]

23. The Bush Era

was the last gasp of the oil economy. * tripled their profits and now the oil countries can use the surplus to diversify their investments in preparation for the post-oil economy.

[Virginia Dare]

34. There is a connection between 9/11 and Saudi Arabia too..

if you really follow the dots, it's not hard to connect them into a full picture.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Remember when we use to scoff at things made in Japan, and then

Japan became the benchmark? Well, the same thing is going to happen to the internet. We use to laugh when we said, "I know it's true because I heard it on the internet," but that soon will be the stamp of validation that the news is fresh and timely, because the mainstream media is analog. That is, analog after a major thunderstorm, with lines down, and the power companies have triaged, fixing the power problems on private streets first because they pay for services and the MM lives on a public street with subsidized housing and has to wait. That slow.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

25. I'm sorry to divert this topic to the campaign

But I feel that this is relevant. I was wondering if Hillary has yet apologised for her vote for the war? If not.... this makes her look incredibly stupid.

[Voltaire99]

26. Yes, it is the Democrats' war, too.

Thanks, Hillary. Thanks, Kerry. Thanks, Edwards.

Etc. etc. etc.

[MindPilot]

32. At least Edwards has come right out and said "I was wrong"

If you didn't see it, a few weeks ago on the CBS Evening News, the candidates were being asked "what is the biggest mistake you ever made?" They all answered with platitudes.

Except John Edwards who looked right at the camera and said "voting to go to war in Iraq."

[NewJeffCT]

28. Didn't you hear, the Surge worked and is a spectacular success!

any time now, Iraqis will be tossing flowers at the feet of the US troops in Iraq. Any day now, I tell ya.

[MindPilot]

33. I heard that about the economy too!

[zanne]

40. Yup. Haven't you heard about "Post-war Iraq"? nt

[devilgrrl]

39. You mean that this wasn't about Oil????

??????????