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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:08 AM
Original message
Church's Sexual Billboard Shocks Passerbys
Church's Sexual Billboard Shocks Passerbys


JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Sexually themed billboards have shocked some drivers traveling on Blanding Boulevard and in Clay County, but more surprising than the billboards themselves is what they're advertising -- a church.

"At first, I thought it was a porn site thing," said one passerby.

However, that's certainly not what the billboards are promoting. They're promoting a series of sermons called Pure Sex God's Way at New Life Fellowship in Orange Park, according to WJXT-TV.

"You sure a church put that there? I think they need to change the sign," said another passerby.



http://www.local6.com/news/15109415/detail.html
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Looks like that church made a deal with the devil.
:evilgrin:
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not Sure I get it?
It's feet, right? Is there something shocking that I'm missing?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. As a Christian I dont get the outrage either..
Sex within marriage is a beautiful thing that no Christian should shy away from talking about, why act all uncomfortable about one of the greatest gifts God gave to man?
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. I've had some pretty darn good non married sex, does that count as a gift, too?
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:57 AM by BleedingHeartPatriot
:-) MKJ

on edit, maybe it was a free sample (s).
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Well according to my faith, no...
Sadly I was not sexually pure until marriage (I was a different person some time ago) and while the sexual fire of a marriage keeps the room warm its not the inferno that the early desire is.. But the room is more pleasant for other reasons ;)
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Gosh, it sure seemed like a gift at the time. Still does. Now, those experiences provide "gifts"
of "understanding" from which my hubby benefits greatly...hehe. Oh, and he definitely took good notes as he received his pre marital "gifts", too.:evilgrin: MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. When I moved to Minnesota
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:37 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
I met a couple who never even kissed *anyone* before marriage.. Were I who I was in the flesh I would have found the idea stupid but looking at my wife damn I wish I had saved it *all* for her...
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. delete.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:50 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
wow. MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Its not to mee to pass judgement
on anyone who is not living by my measuring stick, the guy upstairs on the OTH ;)

Have a good day..
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Yes, the imaginary guy, got it. Just read your post further down thread.
:scared:

MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. its your phobia... have at it..
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Thanks. Much appreciated that you recognize the science of psychiatry!
:hi: MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. And you the sweet benefits of tolerance..
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
87. Reason # 583 I'm glad I'm not religious!
Imagine having this mindtrip regarding sex, BHP --> The Invisible All-Powerful Deity frowns upon hanky panky that occurs before a guy in a white collar says some mumbo jumbo in front of a crowd of people and cake is eaten.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. Sex create a physical emotional and spiritual bond...
even if some 'guy in a white collar' does not say some mumbo jumbo. The point of doing it within marriage is to make sure the person you form that bond with is there for life.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. In most cases, it's not necessary for the person to be there for life.
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 01:41 PM by Oregonian
In fact, I think that's a ridiculous proposition in most cases. Most people were not meant to be together for life. Nothing wrong with sex in the meantime, IMO, as long as protection is used.

Religion always boils down to a form of social control.

edited to add: I am in a long-term, monogamous marriage, and I have two children. I would NEVER tell my kids to only sleep with the person they marry. In fact, I would delicately tell them the opposite, that jumping into marriage without any experience makes zero sense to me. I do not begrudge my husband his former girlfriends, and he does not begrudge me my former boyfriends. It's better to experience many things -- travel, relationships, different jobs, artistic pursuits, etc., before committing to a long-term marriage. Both of us did that, and we are all the happier for it.

Okay, another random thought. The Bible is only several centuries old. It is not divine. It was written by humans telling stories, like any other collection of mythology. Our species Homo sapiens stretch back into the eons, and our ancesters before that go so far back in time it almost indescribable. I put my faith in nature and time, not a silly, violent, contradictory johnny-come-lately book.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. "Religion always boils down to a form of social control."
So does Government... point? Any time you take a group of human beings and make them interact *in any context* there is going to be some social control involved..

"Nothing wrong with sex in the meantime, IMO, as long as protection is used."

Well have to agree to disagree on this..
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
94. What about gay people who can't get married? Are they supposed to remain celibate?
I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. I'm married myself.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. Well
My faith position and social position are two different things..

I dont believe the govt should have *anything to do with marriage*...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. What is your "faith" position and what is your "social" position?
Did you just have a church ceremony, or did you obtain a legal marriage license, as well?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. I did both
But the license really was just for procedure and tax status (something I said should go away but while its there Ill use it). Also my wifes pastor at the time would only do a ceremony if the license was obtained (is that tied to the ability to perform a marriage?)

So long as a framework in in place so people can pass on work benefits, ss bens, and other items who would care.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. I don't think the license is necessary to perform the ceremony
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 04:11 PM by LostinVA
But it's necessary for you to be legally married.

I'm still waiting for my original question to be answered, with your "faith" view and "social" view.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. ....
Im not going to debate my faith view because its not your business and no good will come of the fight..

My social view is that I as a heterosexual should have no more rights than a homosexual..
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Translation: Homosexuality is wrong
Thanks for playing.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Translation
Why is my faith any more of your business than your sexuality may be my business?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. We're not talking about my sexuality -- again, thanks for playing
I know what "faith" you are by your comments down thread.

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I'm just having fun -- so do you think it's a choice, too?
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 04:26 PM by LostinVA
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. Right I get it...
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 04:29 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
Its not about what I think the govt should be doing its about picking fights with other people. Im not having any of it... For some reason you seem to think some privacies should be respected and others should be mocked for your amusement... Its your own little inquisition so very sad...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Um -- you made your faith public, I just asked a question
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 04:50 PM by LostinVA
And, we never were talking about my "sexuality." We were discussing sexual orientation.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. The purpose for this discussion is not to obtain personal knowledge or share ideas
its to amuse you, and I will have none of it...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. When you can't/won't answer a question, it's time to take off
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 04:51 PM by LostinVA
After crying, "No fair!!!"

Old tactic on the DU.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Right go look to pick fights elsewhere... ta ta...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. :eyes:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #123
125. That really sounded like something Queen Victoria would have said.
"Its to amuse you, and I will have none of it..."

O-k. That really sounded like something Queen Victoria would have said to a Russian diplomat visiting her court (but I don't think he would have appreciated it if I told him that...)

Remind me not to piss you off, you can play people wonderfully sometimes-- you're a work of art and I bow before you in stunned (and amused) awe. :P
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Thank you -- sometimes it's just easy
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #115
121. Isn't faith a choice?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #121
134. Thats actually the topic of many
interdenominational debates.. It can, even on a Christian froum, spark some tension so I dont think Ill get into it here..
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #33
96. It certainly should
There is nothing "sinful" about it ever unless one of the parties does not agree or is underage or something. But my feeling is that it is a natural part of human nature and there is not a damn thing wrong with that, despite what all the religious fundy freaks would have us believe. Equating sex with sin is repression and that is NEVER good.

If someone I was dating said they would only do it in the context of marriage, I would stop dating them.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. Depends on which book you read I suppose
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 01:40 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
"There is nothing "sinful" about it ever unless one of the parties does not agree or is underage or something."

Well fornication is most certainly a sin (in Biblical context) but thats a matter of the faith you lead not the civil law you obey which can be totally different.

"But my feeling is that it is a natural part of human nature and there is not a damn thing wrong with that"

Not to attack this position specifically but there are allot of things that are a 'natural part of human nature' that you would probably frown upon (Violence and greed being two of them) so the 'well its natural' is not the best argument.

"Equating sex with sin is repression and that is NEVER good."

Unless of course it meets your above definition of underage right? its nice when you can make the rules you think are sensible and are thus not repressing but when someone else makes rules within their organization or faith you don't agree with then it *is* repression... Cute..
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. It has the word *whisper* s-e-x on it
*claps hand over mouth* I'm sorry, God.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Suggestive, Perhaps. Sex? No, Sorry. Not Even Close
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. The big feet of an adult, the smaller feet of...?
Who wants to bet this is a Talibangelical church packed full of GOP voters?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Looks like the size difference between
My wifes feet and my feet BTW She is a few months older than me...)
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. Go ahead and ruin a perfectly good inuendo opportunity n/t
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Wide-stance sex is republicon family-values sex." - Sen. Larry Craig (R)
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:20 AM by SpiralHawk
"We republicon homelanders have our own, um, peculiar ideas about family-values sex, and will soon introduce a bill to Congress man-dating pull-out cots for public rest rooms."

- Sen. Larry Craig (R)
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. "They cannot be republicon Christians, for they are not wearing diapers." Sen. David Vitter (R)
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:24 AM by SpiralHawk
"We republicons also believe that Family Values Republicon Sex should be, um, a blessed thing, when undertaken with a hooker whilst wearing diapers. Smirk.

"My esteamed Republicon colleagues in the Senate totally support Diaper Sex with Hookers. On that basis they welcomed me back to the Senate with a Standing O. Smirk.

"You can always Depends on republicon homelanders when it comes to, um, handling, uhm, closet cases and perverts. Smirk."

- Sen. David Vitter (R - of course)
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. The way those feet are position looks like a really odd position
Or am I nuts? Is puresex something new and kinky? If so where do I sign up?
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Could be
Cuddling after the main event? Or as I like to call it 'The halftime show ;)'
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Not exactly the missionary position.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
84. i'm trying to figure that out as well...
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. why do people pretend to know what god intended. " god intended us to have great sex
but within his parameters", i mean how the fuck do you know?

i hope god uses my standard for sex parameters. this way we can all have some fun.

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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. God just told me to tell you that she agrees with you
so it's all good. She also said that we tend to overanalyze the whole thing and that she intended sex to be fun of course.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. ROFL. God Sex. That HAS to rock! I mean omnipotence would add a whole new level.
:rofl:

MKJ
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. GodSex- taking "the earth moved for me" to a whole nother level! nm
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Oh geese,
:spray:

:rofl:

MKJ
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
71. But let's think clearly about this...
Who wants a guy who's moaning out, "Oh me! Oh me!"? Ew. Talk about self-centered.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. LOL!
:spray: MKJ
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Maybe there's some part of the bible that they know about but no one else knows
the "Joy of Sex" section. I wonder how specific they get or if it's basically the same old "one man and one woman" tripe.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Song of Solomon
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:18 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
Some say its allegorical but many (and I am among them) think its more literal..

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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
95. I agree with you lionsspriyanka. It should be "My God that I believe in
and who wrote "this Holy book" that I believe is the "word of the God that I believe in" oh and "my interpretation" of this Holy book written by the God that I believe in is this: "Don't have sex except in marriage" Period. The End. Amen.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe they're a church full of foot fetishists?
:shrug:
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. um... the position of those feet is kinda ... confusing
And I think they should have added a fifth foot in there somewhere.

:D
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
57. hysterical!
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. "Pure Sex God's Way" ROFLMAO! And that shocking billboard looks like it was lifted
right off "Three's Company"!!!!

Shocking, I tells ya. MKJ
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. Sex has always been a good marketing ploy for the churches.
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. Who is this wise man, Hancock?
I love that quote which reminds me of why the enlightened Texans among us are a great gift to humankind. :toast: MKJ
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
66. A great Texas songwriter/musician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butch_Hancock

Used to play at the Split Rail before it became a Wendy's.

Played a couple of times at Spellman's (a place I managed at one time).

Both Austin hot spots of yore.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #66
97. Thanks
Heading off to my local music store this weekend. Apparently, one can't load his music off iTunes. Thanks for the background. :-)

MKJ
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. THAT'S IT?????
"At first, I thought it waw a porn site thing," said obe passeby.That's an ad for a porn site???? Oohhhkkayyyyy........
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. tithing dollars at work.
jesurtainment sure rakes in some big bucks.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. Just LOOK At The Position Of Those Feet. You Just Like SOOOOOO Can't Have Sex Like That.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I might know that guy! John P***** has a 90 degree peckerbend.
(I'm completely serious!)
:D
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Yeah, But Is It Like 14 Inches Too? (I'm Estimating, Of Course)
:)
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. No but it's a good eleven!
:D
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
69. You obviously aren't trying hard enough
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. You Obviously Have a 14 Inch Bent At A 90 Degree Angle Shlong. LOL
John P******, is that you?
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
85. That would be Long Dong Silver
I saw him live in New York City
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. From the position of those feet, I would say it looks unlikely that
they are going to have sex at all, whether God's way or any other way.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. I've seen one of those around here in Naperville/Lisle....shocked me at first...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:04 PM by truebrit71
...because they usually have signs up about how the Da Vinci code is bullshit, or how The Chronicles of Narnia is almost as good as the bible for the little xtians...

Figured it was about the wonderful sex you can have in the missionary position with your house-proud town-mouse of a wife after 36 years of marriage...and ne'ery a blow-job in sight...
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
35. This type of church
Aims to control sexuality, and whom one can love..marriage endorsed by church and state creates a place for things we do not want in a free society.Many fundie churches out there promoting marriage also promote patriarchal domination of women, the idea of ordered classes and a ruler to dominate the state. Anti-democratic to their core.

Most ancient societies needed a secure environment for the perpetuation of the species,a system of rules to handle the granting of property rights, and the protection of bloodlines. The institution of marriage handled these needs.

And it led to women's dis-empowerment and abuse secrets hidden away behind the illusion of the happy nuclear family.
I am against all state sanctioned marriage. If two people love each other fine but if they wish to separate later let them separate as easily and cheaply as it was to get married.Marriage without oppression of women and children free of being parental property is what I want. There is too much domestic abuse and child abuse in marriages as they are for me to accept marriage as something sacred.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. My view..
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:48 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
Aims to control sexuality, and whom one can love


All groups of people do this to some degree or another law of consent ages, relation distance ages, .... You may disagree with the ones most Christian churches prescribe to but thats the beauty of a free society.


marriage endorsed by church and state creates a place for things we do not want in a free society.


Again, this is a blanket statement which can be said of any group but you can also make the blanket statement that marriage creates some things we *do* want in a society such as Two parent homes.


You will no doubt point out that you can have two parent homes without marriage and you would be correct. I can point out you can have abusive men without marriage (and some women who will endure it up to death) and I would be correct. The evil lies with people not the framework in which they function.


I am against all state sanctioned marriage.


On this you and I agree, Let people seek out a Church to make their covenant bonds why involve the state?


There is too much domestic abuse and child abuse in marriages as they are for me to accept marriage as something sacred.


If you really believe there is more or less abuse (substantially more or less) in marriage than among those who simply live together I have a bridge to sell you.. Sacred marriage as properly practiced in a Christian home may have order (law) but it *must* have love (grace) and outside accountability. I as a husband am accountable to the eldership of my church and I am commanded to love my wife more than myself 'even unto death' I am to love her enough to sacrifice anything for her (anything not sinful). If she wants to work how can I say no to the woman I love, I want to go golfing on Saturday how can I not defer to her if she would rather we all go to the park?


There are plenty who call themselves Christian husbands who dont get this! Christ died for us he did not beat us and he is the model of the love we should have for our wives..

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. OMG, I have to go back and delete my post to you upthread when I thought you might be kind of sane.
Oops.

MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Im sorry what about this post is
'insane'? Im not looking for an argument but maybe I can clear something up?
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Well, in my church we don't have "elders" that "command" us, for one.
I could go on, but I'm stopping there, you're sort of a buzzkill, yikes.

MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Ok so here I will clear that up for you.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:08 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
1) Elders of my church are nominated by the existing eldership but have to be democratically elected by the church membership

2) Elders hold a position above that of the pastoral staff so in effect we elect people who make sure that a lone pastor does not go off the deep end

3) Members can revoke an elders status

4) The Elders are bound by an oath

5) Im not commanded to be a good husband by the elders but by scripture which states I am to love my wife as Christ loved the church, even unto death

6) The elders can be used by a couple who are at an impass to *advise* they can not command any aspect of my life where I live, what I eat, what music I listen to, how much I give to whom, who Ill vote for, ....

Is this a little more clear? Maybe my post was not clear but elders are sot of an elected administrative body within the church.. Not appointed or anointed..
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Crystal!
:hi: MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Glad to here it..
I can understand how the term 'Elder' can be intimidating but they basically are my churches 'civil servants' and act as a power balance with the pastoral staff..

Regards..
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Regards to you.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:16 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
Enjoy your married, christian sex! :hi: MKJ
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. That's an oxymoron, isn't it?
:silly:

:spray:

:rofl:
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Trust me it aint'
Else the wife and I would not be dropping money on Birth Control
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. Whew, sizzling!
MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Like I said
Christians should not be silent about Sex. it was never a taboo subject in my home and wont be for my daughters. One only needs to read song of songs to know that ;)
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
91. Christians should not be silent about Sex. The one thing you've said with which I agree
wholeheartedly!

A few more conversations about "being in the flesh" might quell some "inner demons" here and there.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. We have Elders also DO2LA
Different (we have a completely different type of religious set up) from yours but also people who we go to when we need guidance on something really tough. They advise, but never command.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Quite so
The most an elder can 'do to me' is recommend excommunication were I say having an affair which I refused to cease..
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #50
132. Just wondering.
Are any of your church elders female?
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. LOL n/t
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
63. ROFL
:spray:

:rofl:

I had the same exact thought yesterday.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Im touched...
And here I thought you were ignoring me... How sweet that you care..
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Does MomOf2LittleAngels know you talk like that to strangers on message boards?
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 03:54 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
I kid, :pals: MKJ

edit, we're not a "chat room" per se.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. LOL who do you think taught me ;)
I got my mother her first computer in 1997 (I was in school at the time and I had a great summer working). She looked at the thing like 'what the hell do you want me to do with that'... Now she post all over the place...
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. I missed the fact we were talking about your mother, CHECK PLEASE.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 04:21 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
MKJ

Anyone who brings their Mom into a GodSex thread worries me, just a bit. But, hey you ARE a married Christian, and those are some people known for really getting their freak on, so who knows. :shrug:
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. No you didnt
I just mangle the English language at every opportunity... :(

Ok Yes I talk like that, my mother (whom you asked about) taught me but the person I am talking to is not my mother. They are just someone who flew off the handle because I know different Christians than they do... They put me on ignore after only a few post but so far today there are two post which are 'about me' in a round about way..
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scorpiogirl Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
65. Hmmmm.
Regarding seeking out church to get married...What do you suggest for those who do not believe in or go to church if there were no state sanctioned marriage? Are you ok with saying people can't get married unless it's in a church? This strikes me as very exclusionary and just plain wrong.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Well
"What do you suggest for those who do not believe in or go to church if there were no state sanctioned marriage?"

If there is no state definition of marriage what does it matter? It would not change your tax status, or anything else. Custody of property and any kids could be decided by the same laws we use for unmarried couples now. Someone can go out and form a 'Atheist Church' or just say 'this is my wife/husband' its really not anyones business

"Are you ok with saying people can't get married unless it's in a church? This strikes me as very exclusionary and just plain wrong."

Can you get baptized outside the church? what is a non church baptism like?
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scorpiogirl Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
81. You didn't really answer the question.
I'm not speaking of the legalities of being married, but rather the ceremony of it. If the state has no bearing on it, then you can't say that you're married because you did it in church rather than someone who did not and not consider them married.

Baptism has nothing to do with marriage so your question doesn't really make sense, but I know where you're trying to going with that.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #81
105. Sure I did... You just did not like hte answer..
I don't care what you say, you can skip rocks on lake Erie with your so can call that your marriage ceremony.

"Baptism has nothing to do with marriage so your question doesn't really make sense"

Glad to see you know where Im going... If you want to go dump yourself in a lake (or tub) and say Im baptized in the name of $Person have at it, you can even call yourself baptized. I may not recognize it but thats neither here nor there...
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scorpiogirl Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #105
122. Right...so
the answer is that you do not recognize a marriage unless it's in a church. And which means that you would not consider anyone married who didn't get married in a church.

Again, why would I ever want to be baptized? It has zilch to do with anything. It's strange that you keep mentioning it.

Must be nice to think that your way is the only right way. I've read all the threads, so don't even try to say that's not what you mean. You used your faith to make your points and now you don't want anyone questioning your faith. Well, perhaps you should've kept it to yourself in the first place.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. Im maybe missing the point here..
"the answer is that you do not recognize a marriage unless it's in a church."

I also think blue is the best color does the help you decide how to dress?

"And which means that you would not consider anyone married who didn't get married in a church"

I also consider Yankee fans to be nothing but bandwagon fair weather fans.. Im sure they are not losing sleep over it.

"Must be nice to think that your way is the only right way."

You tell me! you seem to have a beat on it as well 'If you dont think XYZ your a bigot and Im enlightened' about sums up your post..

"I've read all the threads, so don't even try to say that's not what you mean."

Ill not deny it for a second I just dont see how my beliefs *actually effect you or anyone else*. Apparently unless I subscribe to your beliefs there is something wrong with me. I guess thats an ok position for you to hold but lord help someone if they hold that true of their own beliefs..

"You used your faith to make your points and now you don't want anyone questioning your faith."

I am always up for a discussion about my faith so long as its not just about feeding a troll or starting a flame war, Im also just as happy to leave my faith out of a discussion.

"Well, perhaps you should've kept it to yourself in the first place."

You're grasp of tolerance is as think as the skin of an apple... If youre offended by my faith you have a couple of options (a) Ignore me, (b) Engage me, or (c) Try to silence me... Your last words on this post indicate you pick option C...

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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
86. women...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 06:58 PM by undergroundpanther
"In winning a nation to the gospel, the sword as well as the pen must be used." "Democracy is a heresy against God!"
-R.J. Rushdooney, Director of the Rutherford Institute,
which was the principal funder of Monica Lewinsky's
legal defense, and architect of "Christian Reconstructionism."


"The Bible and the church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of woman's emancipation."

--Elizabeth Cady Stanton
The words of the christian god drip with claims of woman's inferiority aimed at subjecting women and reinforcing patriarchy.

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

Aims to control sexuality, and whom one can love

And what gives some the right to dictate to others whom to love if it is consenting adults.How dare a deluded slave of god's tell me if I am in love with a same sexed person I am dammed! how dare a christian slave tell me I cannot be loved by a same sexed person or be transgendered.Gender structures has got to go away along with the outmoded beliefs a few jews that lived ages ago made up while in a very different world. The biblical crap about sex and gender is not reflected by real life nor is it helping humanity be better as people. Gender distinctions are a stumbling block to becoming better people. Marriage reinforces gender concepts that are not working anymore.



>All groups of people do this to some degree or another law of consent ages, relation distance ages, .... You may disagree with the ones most Christian churches prescribe to but thats the beauty of a free society.

It's not free if one dominates over another who is not harming you or anyone. Gay marriage will not harm anyone yet the arrogant christians think they can speak for the infinite unknown by telling gay people their love is not real. They are fucked up personalities narcissistic control freaks.Speaking from their own personality flaws.
Why does fundamentalism have such a broad appeal? Besides the appeal to vanity ('join us and you can be one of God's chosen'), and its appeal to fear ('you can't be saved without us'), its broad appeal is because it offers an easy way -- a fundamentalist need not think deeply about doctrine or be highly educated in it; as one Mormon leader once said to an audience of university students, "Don't think for yourself. The thinking has already been done." If you surrender your right to think for yourself and just do as the leader asks, the fundamentalist promises you a sure ticket into heaven. What could be easier?

http://www.bidstrup.com/religion.htm

Woman is a slave to males in the christian religion. I will never bow to a human or god I have no masters or gods.So according to christian religion I will be tortured forever. Is THAT kind of threat the works of a good god? NO. The Christian god and it's works are EVIL. So I say I hate god and I hate Jesus and the satan the god made.I hate the flesh and the control bullshit, I hate existence in this fucked up world.

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

If you submit in everything you are a slave,a Slaves have no independent life of their own, but exist only to carry out the will of the owner. (owned by god?)They are merely the property of the owner, agents of the owner.
And I am not owned by any god master or person. This makes me according to the bible a vessel of wrath.

How is that verse ANYTHING but an endorsement of women's slavery to men and the church?
How can you twist being dominated into love without telling yourself lies?


marriage endorsed by church and state creates a place for things we do not want in a free society.


>Again, this is a blanket statement which can be said of any group but you can also make the blanket statement that marriage creates some things we *do* want in a society such as Two parent homes.


Do you want inequality? what about ownership class dominating the servant class? Marriage reinforces this belief in a hierarchy on a society.
I didn't want my two parent home. My father was a rapist asshole. I wished my mom would have divorced him.
I wanted OUT of that family. It was making me crazy.I hated my family. Yet we played two parent home is so important,didn't matter if their sick fidelity was crushing me with trauma.

Sometimes a two parent home is a disaster.And sometimes it is better to not be parents.Marriage controlled by the state makes it harder to escape..


You will no doubt point out that you can have two parent homes without marriage and you would be correct. I can point out you can have abusive men without marriage (and some women who will endure it up to death) and I would be correct. The evil lies with people not the framework in which they function.

Yes people with authoritarian,narcissistic and psychopathic personalities are a plague upon this world. They see nothing wrong with their own cruelty, and domination crap and behave much like the bible god.. the church interferes with people leaving abuse,after the marriage trap by the guilt trips and sin games that parents teach kids with their sick belief system. The market which is still christian twisted interferes with escape from abuse by not having enough social resources,or a good safety net to help spouses escape and by not paying women equal wages. Still women are treated as less than men and it angers me.


I am against all state sanctioned marriage.


On this you and I agree, Let people seek out a Church to make their covenant bonds why involve the state?

That is why marriage is a bigger problem,than it should be the state has no business being in the marriage business but yet it is..Why? The Church has no business telling people in abusive situations to submit,or that the wife is"willful. I gotta wonder is the state and church still linked? Apparently so, just try to get a divorce...Why does the state get involved at all? Unless it is christianity infected somewhere.

There is too much domestic abuse and child abuse in marriages as they are for me to accept marriage as something sacred.


>If you really believe there is more or less abuse (substantially more or less) in marriage than among those who simply live together I have a bridge to sell you..

Really? than tell me why so many christian covenant type marriages end in divorce court?
Marriage is not sacred holy or anything spiritually better than any other relationship..


http://www.divorcereform.org/mel/rbaptisthigh.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/livingtogether.html
http://harlowmonkey.typepad.com/harlows_monkey/2007/02/a_brief_history.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/family.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/woman/story/0,,1813078,00.html


>Sacred marriage as properly practiced in a Christian home may have order (law) but it *must* have love (grace) and outside accountability.

Really what would that outside accountability be? Surely not a therapist or the police or a non christian organization,like social services.What is the accountability? is it the god voice in your head,Bible or church?The voices in the head,the church and bible have terrible flaws in how they handle relationships.And that covenant thing didn't work for my marriage. I wasted years on that crap. The church almost made me kill myself, it made my husband desire to kill himself,and he said if he was going to go he would kill me! The fucking church ruined my life.And I hate the church and will never trust a christian's advice again.


>I as a husband am accountable to the eldership of my church...

OK and that means you submit to the elders and she submits to you. That is not equal, you discribe a Hierarchy..There is no equality in a hierarchy.

>and I am commanded to love my wife more than myself 'even unto death' I am to love her enough to sacrifice anything for her (anything not sinful). If she wants to work how can I say no to the woman I love, I want to go golfing on Saturday how can I not defer to her if she would rather we all go to the park?

You are going against the bible by treating your woman in equality..Women are not to be equal to men according to that vile book . The male dominates.god demands that men lead. And so it makes for the nice on the outside home with hell in it's most secret rooms. What do you think submission means.
Also about work...

In Titus 2:3-4, Paul gives these instructions as to how a young married woman is to live: "...train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the Word of God."

In this passage, the Bible is clear that when children are in the picture, that is where the young woman's responsibility lies. At home tending KIDS. Barefoot and preggers since abortion of a blastocyst is now"murder"

Proverbs 31 speaks of "A wife of noble character". Starting at verse 11, the writer praises this woman as one who does everything in her power to care for her family.
She must exhaust herself cooking cleaning babies,ect.A perfect nazi wife.

She works hard to keep her house and her family in order. Verses 16, 18, 24, and 25 show that she is so industrious that she also moonlights with a cottage industry that provides additional income for her family. This woman's motivation is important in that her business activities were the means to an end, not an end in themselves. She was providing for her family, not furthering her career, using her degree, or working to keep up with the Joneses. Her employment was only a sidebar to her true calling: the stewardship of her husband, children, and home.

The Bible nowhere forbids a woman from working outside the home. However, the Bible does teach what a womans priorities are to be. If working outside the home causes a woman to neglect her children and husband, then it is wrong for that woman to work outside the home. If a Christian woman can work outside the home and still provide a loving, caring environment for her children and husband, then it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to work outside the home. Become SUPERMOM and DO IT ALL!!!if you want the privilege of work, and she mustn't have a career of her own OH no!!,.

>There are plenty who call themselves Christian husbands who don't get this! Christ died for us he did not beat us and he is the model of the love we should have for our wives..
Than why does god still Punish? Why are parents told to NOT spare the rod?

What do you make of this verse?
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness

Is this god's "love"http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/ezekiel/ezekiel16.htm

And christ was not a kind loving guy as most christians want to believe nor was his"father".
Matthew 10:34-35"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household."

Think about that. And what kind of happy home is this verse describing but the cursed nuclear family marriage covenant?
God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Like a sadist or abuser. Therefore, God does bring judgment and calamity (either directly or through human authorities) on those who rebel.9 God will ultimately judge all people, since rebels will not be allowed in the new, perfect creation.
Obey or die..not a choice it is a threat by an authoritarian asshole ARCHON. Who was WRONG there is a god above the god of abraham it is wisdom desired for that leads to LIBERATION.That is. Something the bible lacks..

God of the christians is a monster a thing that creates good and evil some try to reword it as calamity, but to me facing calamity is evil, and it's evil is reflected in this sick sad dying world of pain, this sick authoritarian bully god made. I despise the creator of this world and this stupid flesh jail. I want out. Fucking archons I hate 'em. But than again I am a gnostic looking for spiritual liberation not a christian submitting to their masters.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #86
106. Im not going to answer your whole form post but Ill give you a snippit
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Ok now lets go to the verses immediately following that

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Ephesians 5:22 is one of the most bantered about versus in the bible and Eph 5:25 is left out more often then not, subsequently 5:22 is the most misunderstood verse of the bible! (both by those who want to say Christianity harms women and those who wish to use it to harm women *BOTH* are wrong)

The Greek hypotassō (Submit yourself) was usually used when describing the practice of arranging troop divisions in a military fashion under the command of a leader". It was never used to describe a slave /master relationship.

Im never impressed by old, recycled and hugely debunked attacks on my faith, thanks.. My wife and I both believe this verse and she is not my slave nor my lesser. She is my equal and together we are one flesh!
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #86
108. And now to your specific rebuttals..
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 03:47 PM by DadOf2LittleAngels
"Really? than tell me why so many christian covenant type marriages end in divorce court?"

Im sorry do you have something saying its much higher or lower than (1) Marriages which are not covenent *either state performed or church performed on non religious people?*

"Really what would that outside accountability be? Surely not a therapist or the police or a non christian organization,like social services.What is the accountability?"

What would make you say that? I must submit to the police and government as they are placed in authority over me by God. As to a therapist, I have no objections at all to seeking it if needed when an impass that can not be resolved is reached an outside opinion (friends / family / church / therapist) can be very helpful. Stop trying to superimpose on me what *you* think *I* believe..

"You are going against the bible by treating your woman in equality"

No I'm going against the narrow definitions that you (and people who want to dominate their wives) want to believe. Not against the bible...

"In this passage, the Bible is clear that when children are in the picture, that is where the young woman's responsibility lies. At home tending KIDS. Barefoot and preggers since abortion of a blastocyst is now"murder"

LOL yup keep making it up for me... FYI I we daycare! Being responsible for something does not mean you have to be the one performing it. I am responsible for many things in my work few of them do I actually execute..

"Proverbs 31 speaks of "A wife of noble character"."

Thank you! for bringing up Proverbs 31 you saved me the trouble..

"She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard"

Hmm she is free to invest and work herself in a role which would also be performed by a man (aka having a job)... Your attacks are typical of people who try to tear my faith down in this manner. You run around finding all the prohibitions and provisions for women and ignore altogether the prohibitions and provisions for men.

"If working outside the home causes a woman to neglect her children and husband, then it is wrong for that woman to work outside the home."

And if a husband neglects his wife and kids for his career its also wrong! I would not take a job that required 70 hours a week and payed awesome, no matter how personally rewarding it was, Again you ignore provisions on men..

"Than why does god still Punish? Why are parents told to NOT spare the rod?"

Because we correct those we love, with kids (and yes Im a spanker) sometimes its the only way to get their attention. It is *never* to be done in anger or passionately and should never be a first resort. About the time kids hit the age of reason (7ish maybe) spanking should sharply decline and be gone by the time they are 10. When you can reason with someone when they understand the reasoning physical discipline is not to be used.

My wife is my equal she is my own flesh "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church".. Seems like a huge provision on physically confronting your wife to me...

BTW if you don't think a wife in a covenant marriage is well within her rights to give me a good correction when needed you're nuts..

"God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Like a sadist or abuser"

No, were that the case we would all be squashed this second and Heaven would be empty. The law without grace is a terrible, albeit righteous, concept.

In the words of Allister Begg "It is because God's wrath is real, that his mercy is relevant"

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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #108
131. So now you're bragging about hitting your kids. After telling us how "forniciation is a sin"
Alerting.

Get thee behind me.

MKJ
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #131
133. Come on...
Spanking in and of itself is not abuse and a hurtful word can cut deeper than a spank (over clothing of course). I know parents who spank that are not Christian and don't think fornication is a sin, there is no reason to tie the two together...I know atheist who spank..

I'm rather surprised at the number of people trying to cram me into some kind of jar that fits their idea of a bible believing Christian. I use the word elder and the assumptions fly, I mention spanking and I'm sure someone out there is picturing a paddle or gospel music playing in the background as I torture the kid..

If you want to know something about me just ask don't stereotype..

Regards..
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
99. So you have nothing to say about gay marriage then since you do not want
to be dictated by the state? Just want to make your position clear.

You said:

"On this you and I agree, Let people seek out a Church to make their covenant bonds why involve the state?"
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #99
107. Nope not a thing to say about it...
My faith positions hold no sway over what people outside my faith do..
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. Looks like a pedophile advertisement . NT
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georgerussell Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
54. So, when I cry out, "Oh, God, Oh, Jesus!!", is that God's Way nookie?
Can I get an AMEN!?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. You have to yell out "JOHN 3:16 baby!"
:rofl:
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
58. how DO these people have sex? are they deformed? n/t
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Atmashine Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
61. Noodly Appendage
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
64. So this Church is preaching immaculate conception
for all women? Whew. . .well, that should take a lot of heat off of marriages.
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TheFriendlyAnarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
75. Good God, what position is that?
It just doesn't seem feasible.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
83. Evidently, God's way is sideways
Go, God!!!!!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
79. It looks like an ad for Dr. Scholl to me. nt
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
88. Why advertise such a compelling alternative way to spend your Sunday mornings?
It's romantic, but not necessarily something that would get me into church.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
89. God's way is pure sex? Who knew?
LMAO
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
90. As a major producer of porn in the world, Americans sure are prudes
If THAT billboard *shocks* Americans, they'd better not go to Europe - they'd die of an apoplectic fit.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. What's wrong with that? Why are Americans so weird about sex?
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
93. I think it's cute n/t
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
98. looks more like drunk sex to me
MY way! :P
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
100. Lets see, somebody is on their stomach and somebody is on their side.
and it looks like the man (bigger feet) is face down. How does that work for procreation??
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
129. Perverts for Jesus! Give me an AMEN!
No shame, no brain.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
130. This thread is just so darn kickable. Kick worthy?
:kick:

:-) MKJ
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