Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Apple users are more liberal than Microsoft PC users.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:29 PM
Original message
Apple users are more liberal than Microsoft PC users.
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 11:30 PM by Elwood P Dowd
This is interesting. I use Apple products and only know ONE conservative that uses them. My repub sisters absolutely refuse to use them because Gore is on Apple's board. Limbaugh has been using Apple for years. When DU polls are done on the subject, there seems to be a larger percentage of Apple users here compared to the general public.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080117/tc_pcworld/141473

Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service Thu Jan 17, 4:20 PM ET

People who prefer Apple's Macintosh computers over PCs have long been considered to be on the artsy, hip end of the personality spectrum-- and now a study proves that "Mac people" indeed are more liberal and open-minded than average folks.

According to Mindset Media, people who purchase Macs fall into what the branding company calls the "Openness 5" personality category-- which means they are more liberal, less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large. Mindset Media helps companies with strong brands develop ads targeted to people based on personality traits or people's "mindsets," and does research to that effect.

So-called Openness 5 types tend to seek rich, varied and novel experiences, according to the company, and believe that imagination and intellectual curiosity are as important to life as more rational or pragmatic endeavors. They also are receptive to their own inner feelings and may experience life with more emotional intensity.

The company uses Nielsen Online's panel for the Mac mindset study, the results of which are based on responses from 7,500 participants.

It's no great secret that Macs have always been popular with creative types-- the computers have been the mainstay of creative agencies and video- and sound-editing houses for years. This probably has as much to do with the fact that Apple and partners have delivered popular software for graphic and multimedia designers and artists as it does with the contemporary industrial design Macs have long reflected.

<snip>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. hehheh
Guilty as charged.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
299. Heh heh...me too.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:48 PM by LandOLincoln
Though this MacBook is my first, and drives me nuts sometimes.

But I still think Bill Gates is the devil, and modesty is a highly overrated quality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. less modest and more assured of their own superiority
I never noticed :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm naked right now...and I'm soooooooo better than you!
Really. I'm not joking!



Okay, I'm joking about the naked part.

And maybe the "better than you" part.

But I use a Mac! So there! Fuck you!

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
63. LOL!...and besides ...How can you get an honest "Reading" when ....
there's only a few hundred Mac users in the entire USA ? :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #63
73. There are several million little boy.
Apple sold almost 1.2 million in the 3d quarter of 2007 alone, putting them at No. 3 only behind HP and Dell. Why do you make such a childish post? Why do you hate a blue company that is so close to Al Gore?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #73
115. Well...It sounded funny at the time. ...Look..I truly enjoy both Mac's and Pc's.
I'm a computer tech and Sound Engineer and some programs work great on Pc's and some work better on Mac's. (Sound Forge 9 is a good example)
I own both and feel they both have their place.
Sorry..I should have used the Sarcasm smilie in my post. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #73
293. 1.2 Million?
Big whoop. HP shipped 13.1 million and Dell 9.9 million units in the same period.

I will be the first to agree though that Mac users are "less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large". I believe they also tend to fetishize their equipment more so than PC users (G4 Girl anyone?). I'm not at all certain that either of these things are reason to brag. But then again "less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large" kinda explains that too....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #293
313. Apple reported shipping 2.32 million Macintosh computers in Q4.
Porsche doesn't sell as many units as Chevy, either.
By comparison, Apple does pretty well. And how's the
relative profitability of the several companies?

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #293
325. S'mae Llewlladdwr!
O le wyt ti'n dwad?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cabcere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh noes I am teh Freep
:D I've always kind of made that connection too, actually. :shrug: A lot of liberal/creative/open-minded people I know seem to gravitate towards Macs. I tried, I really did - my senior year of high school I was required to use a Mac for one of my tech classes, and I never did get the hang of it. :shrug: Guess I'm a weirdo or something. ;) :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Baloney! Macs are more expensive than PC's and the
rethugs have all the dough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You can buy a Mac for $599.00.
That ole' talking point is dead when you factor in the bundled software.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't bother.
The people that still buy into that old talking point are still masturbating to porn on their home-made PC-store kludge-ware machines. You'll never convince them.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Gee, thanks so much for posting from the gutter.
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I'm not in the gutter...I'm half in the bag.
Oh, wait...what were we talking about?

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
138. Atman and I had a nice long argument about this once quite some time back
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:45 AM by kgfnally
He lost, badly. He posted a chart to try to prove Macs were cheaper than PCs. The hardware in the computers on the chart was identical in the Mac-vs-PC comparison; each machine, Mac or PC, desktop or notebook, was using identical hardware. He did this because he took exception to my contention that merely similar PC vs Mac comparisons were all I could come up with, and he wanted to be a purist about it.... or something.

Three of the four PCs on the chart Atman posted trying to prove his point were cheaper than Macs with absolutely identical hardware, and two thirds of the PC notebooks were cheaper than their identical Mac counterparts- some by several hundred dollars.

I'd love to link to that post, because it showed how blindly (not to say, foolishly) devoted Atman and other Mac fanboys really are. Unfortunately, I've had no success pulling it up since; maybe the subthread got deleted or something. That the chart he posted proved the exact opposite point Atman was trying to prove apparently didn't bother him in the least, because here he is, spreading the same old lie that Macs are cheaper than their PC counterparts.

Here's the actual chart he posted; I can't find the post itself, but the chart Atman posted saying identical-hardware Macs are cheaper vs. PCs was so hilarious I saved it:



He remembers this, I'm sure. Atman is, on this subject, just plain wrong but won't admit it, I know how badly he lost the argument when I had it with him last time, and I'd like to spare that for everyone else. Atman truly does not know what he's talking about on this subject, so please spare yourself some misinformation and just don't listen to him.

Me, I'm running Fedora Core 8 with compiz-fusion installed, so my desktop makes Window$ Aero look like the truly amateur hack job it is. I also get most or all the features of the OSX desktop if I want them (including Expose)- oh, yeah, free- and can run most of my Windows software, including, I'm discovering, several of my Windows games (such as Command & Conquer 3 and Oblivion), via Wine. My PC, as Atman took exception to elsewhere on this thread, doesn't "use Windows" exclusively ("exclusively" being what the poster meant, and I think Atman knows that also).

Here's a pic. I have yet to see a Mac pull off even basic eye candy like this:



And while it's true eye candy really doesn't matter all that much, it's just fun to play with.

Oh, and Atman:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #138
148. WOW! Change history much? I lost badly??????
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:42 AM by Atman
Sure, dude. Anything you say...you wanted to argue one thing, which was never what I was talking about. I made the statement that Macs are no more expensive than identically equipped name-brand PCs, but you could never produce an identically equipped PC. You want to argue about DIY machines, you insisted that the $19,199.00 was somehow typical of all Macs when you know full well it is not. I never denied that there was a $20,000 Mac, just that no one would ever actually buy one configured that way. You NEVER won that debate at all...you couldn't have, because you never compared identical machines. I posted half a dozen links to you PROVING you were wrong and you changed your criteria or outright ignored my links every single time, and finally settled on the $20,000 fantasy Mac as your "proof." Good god, man! At least pretend to be honest, okay?

:eyes:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #148
165. I never said that was true for all Macs,
"you insisted that the $19,199.00 was somehow typical of all Macs"

That's patently absurd on its face; I know I never said that.

I know I never used that as my only example, either, because at the time I recall trying to go to the ultimate extreme at the Apple store merely to prove how expensive they could get.

"You NEVER won that debate at all...you couldn't have, because you never compared identical machines."

Until you posted the chart above, which does just that, while trying to use it to claim Macs are cheaper than identically equipped PCs. Your chart above does show that Pcs are cheaper in those cases listed, equipped with identical hardware and with an additional OS, no less.

As I recall, you posted this right at the end of our little exchange- which ended with me noticing that the chart didn't say what you were trying to say it did. I recall no response from you following that observation. Were you embarrassed or something? I would have been if I made that sort of a slip....

I'm not going to argue with you about this any more. You're wrong, you know you are. Perhaps you would be better off talking about how Macs are better than PCs, rather than cheaper, because they quite clearly aren't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #138
162. Well, let me touch your greatness.
"Me, I'm running Fedora Core 8 with compiz-fusion installed, so my desktop makes Window$ Aero look like the truly amateur hack job it is. I also get most or all the features of the OSX desktop if I want them (including Expose)- oh, yeah, free- and can run most of my Windows software, including, I'm discovering, several of my Windows games (such as Command & Conquer 3 and Oblivion), via Wine..."

My, doesn't your shit not stink.:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #162
166. That's pretty much what his last argument went like.
Look at that stupid desktop. While I CAN have a desktop like that, why would I want to? If I built my own PC, I could also have a case with neon lights and one of those silly little LED displays that tells you what the processor speed is. Again, why would I want to? That guy is whack when it comes to his PC. He's like one of those custom car guys...he lives it, eats it, breathes it, and therefore no one is worthy in his eyes. Even when six price-comparison articles were posted debunking his nonsense, he just couldn't accept it so started saying "Macs cost $20,000!" And he says Mac users have problems? :eyes:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #162
174. I state what I'm running and what OS I'm using, post a screenshot,
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:53 PM by kgfnally
and that's saying my shit don't stink?

Or are you objecting to my pointing out it was free?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #174
178. No, your not "stating" anything. Your bragging.
Big difference there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #178
187. Why would I brag about something anyone at all can do?
Even Mac users. What's the point? I didn't do anything at all special...

I didn't do anything special by setting FC8. I didn't do anything particularly special in getting compiz to work; it just did. I didn't even do anything special by making my Win apps work in FC8; there are dozens of help files and HOWTOs online that can help anyone do all of that- that's how I learned how to do it.

Unless you think linux users are more special than others, that we have something we can "brag" about....? Other than it being free, of course; that is something to "brag" about. Or talk up, depending on how you feel about linux in general.

Bragging? I just don't see it like that at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #187
212. Braggarts generally never see it.
While your citing all these FC8s, and other shit I never heard of, take time to check out DSM IV, indexing NPD.;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #212
215. Fedora Core 8
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #215
225. DSM IV
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #212
294. "Braggarts generally never see it."
Does this apply to the OP as well or only PC users?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. and $599.00 isn't expensive? It is in my world.
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Yeah, but the Mac Mini blows compared to the PC you can get for the same money.
Or for a little more. I hate it too, I love Macs, but Apple hardware is consistently over-priced.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. And the PC uses the piece of crap Windows OS.
You can have it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. True.
I'd rather have both.

Apple is overcharging on hardware, they make good profits because of it. Any company with a devoted cult of followers will do well and not have lower its hardware prices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Yeah, but Windows is free!
Oh, wait...no it isn't. And if you fart while you're online Microsoft demands that you reinstall the OS and send the fingerprints of your first-born along with your passport and birth certificate in order to reactivate it.

But DAMN, home-made pc's can have glow-in-dark cases!

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. PCs use whatever OS the owner decides. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. So do Macs.
What's your point?

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. My point is PCs dont "use windows"
like the post I was replying to stated. Thought it was pretty obvious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. How many PC users do you know that are using Tiger or Leopard?
My guess is ZERO! Macs can run Windows, Linux, or the Apple OS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. I know plenty of PC users who don't use windows.
Don't know about using mac's OS, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Yeah, but his POINT was, PCs don't use Windows.
No, I didn't get it either...but it certainly was his point.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
69. It's possible, in theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

Haven't got it to work on my hardware yet though. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Here's a comparison, Mac Mini at the Apple store v. PCs at Best Buy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
water Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. You can buy a PC for $199
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:01 AM by water
Are you seriously denying that PCs are more cheaper? Take a look at laptop prices.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. A $199.00 PC is just about as bad as
some of those Wal Mart $39.00 CD players. Junk that will wind up in the dump in 6 months.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #49
72. My PIII Compaq purchased in 1999 now serves extended
duty as a Linux Box. The only upgrade I did was to extend the memory to 1gig... that's it.

Operationally, it is now faster than my new Windows laptop and the Macs I have worked.

Did I mention Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon looks amazing!?

My family recycles PCs as it is far far cheaper to do this... not to mention the environmental benefits.

I will keep the $500 and spend 99 on a used box and install XP or Linux.

My kids get their own computers and my home stays happy.

The Apple proprietary business model will eventually be its downfall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
54. You can buy a Nano Tata for $2500.
You get what you pay for.



.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
248. Match the hardware in a $600 PC to a $600 "Mac"
Both use Intel... but the $600 PC is going to be a real heck of a lot more powerful for the price; even if Windows is running on it.

My POC, which I did DIY for $1000, would cost $2000 at Best Buy, and for a "Mac" would cost about $3000. (then come the dual quad-cores, of which are better suited for servers and at the point, nobody's going to fart around with some brand that dances at end users and not businesses...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=quad+core+macmall&btnG=Search


It is YOUR argument that is dead.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingWhisper Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
261. you can get the Mac Mini for $499, but
no moniter, keyboard or mouse included. Add those and it takes your cost to $1296, not counting shipping.
If you go with an iMac, base is $1199.
The base DELL "All In One" Desktop is $1299
Either way you go...is not cheap
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #261
263. The theory behind the Mini, of course, is that most people, especially "switchers"...
The theory behind the Mini, of course, is that most people,
especially "switchers", already have one or more monitors,
keyboards, and meece lying around, so why provide yet another
set?

And you seem to have proven that an iMac is a better deal
than a Dell.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingWhisper Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #263
336. Not really.
By this new description, you count on a switch user, but that wasn't stated initially.
If you are a new user the info is more correct by my assertion, that it's not such a great deal (ie: no greater than
what the other companies have offered for years.
and to the parting thought of the better deal...not really on this point either:

Dell All-In-One (base):
2GB2 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
250GB3 Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
Intel Core2 Duo E4500
TV Tuner & Remote ControlHybrid Analog/Digital TV Tuner with Remote Control
20 inch widescreen

iMac (base):
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
250GB3 Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory
20-inch widescreen

....the DELL even has a TV tuner w/ remote built in
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #336
338. I only stated that the reason Apple omits all those extras...
I only stated that the reason Apple omits all those extras
(keyboard, mouse, and monitor) with the Mini is that the
expectation is that it is a "switcher" buying it. This
is absolutely true and was stated explicitly by Apple
when they announced the Mini.

I wasn't particularly defending the pricing of the Mini,
simply fending off your jibe about how poorly-equipped
it is. Whether it's worth it to you is a decision you
can make.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Dell if you paid me, but
lots of DUers see no problem shipping their money to
RED companies that then lobby against our positions.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #261
342. OMG! Don't show that to kgfnally!
Macs are always more expensive then PCs, you fool! Man oh man...he'll really put you in your place now. He might even show you his big, throbbing 3D desktop!

:rofl:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Liberals are smart enough to make the investment. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. If mac owners were so smart
they'd be investing their money into building their own computers, rather than wasting it on the overpriced products that apple produces..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. We have other things to do with our time.
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. No offense,
but that just shows how much you know about the computer market in general. (Basing that on one sentence, of course. If you are more in tune with the computer world, i'm sorry)
You can purchase your own custom computer, and not have to build it, if thats what you want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Relax dude. If I'd realized this was such a deep and serious issue for you, I would
not have risk upsetting your balance.

It's just a computer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. My balance is not upset
I'm just offering my opinion on a forum, like you..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
249. ROTFLMAO. Liberals are smart enough to think for themselves. Oh,
A computer is a tool.

They depreciate rapidly*.

Anyone who thinks they are an "investment" isn't very smart, no personal offense. Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it.


* which was the reason why I, with no credit, couldn't get a loan for a Quadra 840AV back in 1995 despite my wage and job...

OMG, the Toad really wanted a mac at one point... (well, at the time, Macs were more stable than Windows (3.x), had cool AV functionality, had superior Motorola processors, used superior SCSI architecture...

Fortunately, as Apple cheapened the specs but never lowered the cost, I felt better about ultimately not getting the loan or buying into that empty little company. Pawning imacs due to colorful cases with the fruit nicknames, ditching SCSI, pimping Motorola until the day they switched to Intel, which was the magical day when Intel was the faster entity (well duh, they switched from Motorola-centric code to loosely translated Intel code onto a Motorola processor!!)

Then came the ipods with the shit battery technology...

Greenpeace hates them, Dell and HP and others were green long before Apple buttkissed their way in...

Dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple and too many people understandably phony up a love -- probably because they wasted so much money in it. Just like how I had with OS/2 until I dumped it, so I sure as hell can relate...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #249
285. You outdid yourself, Toad.
"Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it."

Um...yep. No problem.

You seem to have lots of issues with your ability to finance a Mac purchase. That's not Steve Job's problem, dude, it's yours. So you're a cheap bastard with shitty credit. While there may be dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple, your inability to afford their products isn't very high on most user's lists.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #285
309. Strangely enough, our now-quite-old G4/500 runs modern software.
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 07:31 AM by Tesha
Strangely enough, our now-quite-old G4/500 runs modern software.
(I'm not sure exactly when we purchased it, but it was introduced
on 2000.02.16 and bought shortly after that so it's almost eight
years old now.) To date, we've had no problems running *ANY* of
the latest versions of any of our applications.

I haven't yet tried putting Mac OS X Leopard on it; officially,
it's too slow to be supported but I'm expecting that to work also,
just like our Wall Street continued to work way past the officially-
supported versions of the system software.

We're rev'ving up to replace the G4/500 (probably with a
big-screen iMac, otherwise with another mini-tower) but it's
given us many years of good service and will probably retire
to a quiet life of being a file server.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
250. ROTFLMAO. Liberals are smart enough to think for themselves. Oh,
A computer is a tool.

They depreciate rapidly*.

Anyone who thinks they are an "investment" isn't very smart, no personal offense. Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it.


* which was the reason why I, with no credit, couldn't get a loan for a Quadra 840AV back in 1995 despite my wage and job...

OMG, the Toad really wanted a mac at one point... (well, at the time, Macs were more stable than Windows (3.x), had cool AV functionality, had superior Motorola processors, used superior SCSI architecture...

Fortunately, as Apple cheapened the specs but never lowered the cost, I felt better about ultimately not getting the loan or buying into that empty little company. Pawning imacs due to colorful cases with the fruit nicknames, ditching SCSI, pimping Motorola until the day they switched to Intel, which was the magical day when Intel was the faster entity (well duh, they switched from Motorola-centric code to loosely translated Intel code onto a Motorola processor!!)

Then came the ipods with the shit battery technology...

Greenpeace hates them, Dell and HP and others were green long before Apple buttkissed their way in...

Dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple and too many people understandably phony up a love -- probably because they wasted so much money in it. Just like how I had with OS/2 until I dumped it, so I sure as hell can relate...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
64. It may be the Latte Liberal Effect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
101. nope you are wrong. most artists use mac. there are rich liberals too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. Also, the idea that you have to be rich to buy a Mac is ridculous.
I work with non profits, which pay less than the for profit market. Almost everyone I know through work has a mac at home, though PCs at the office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. yup. also how are we defining poor. obviously if you are really poor you cant afford a home computer
anyway.

so we are really quibbling between middle and upper middle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. There you go. There are 2 co-workers I can think of who have done
all kinds of international travel on shoe string budgets. They practically live on rice and beans, buy used clothes that they wear through to the threads. But they have traveled the world. And have macs.

If you're truly in poverty, mac vs pc is no different than rolls vs bmw.

But there's a LOT of room between poverty and wealth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #104
126. Soon everyone will be able to afford a computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child



There's talk about making the OLPC program available
to America's poor.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #126
252. Nice in theory, but there are many disused computers...
that would work equally well in countries with existing infrastructures, such as America.

The OLPC units were designed to last better in harsher environmental climates... America isn't exactly desert terrain, so why not just sell disused computers here at near-giveaway prices?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #126
323. While OLPC seems like a great idea and a worthy project.
The fact that John "death squad" Negroponte's brother is in charge of the project is greatly disturbing. :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #323
324. I've *MET* Nick Negroponte; he'd didn't strike me as the "fascist" type.
I've used an OLPC XO; it didn't seem to have any secret fascist
features nor did it appear to be recording my votes in online
polls (unlike, say, DU). And it has little LEDs next to the
microphone and video camera that are connected to the hardware
in such a way that if the camera or the microphone is switched
on, the associated LED is *FORCED* to illuminate.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #104
251. If Apple is so liberal, why not ask them to lower prices so everybody could have one?
I mean, we're not all rich like you mac supporters are...

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #251
292. Macs come with software that would cost hundreds of dollars at retail
Garage Band, music mixing and editing.

iDVD, DVD editing and authoring.

iTunes, for ripping and burning music.

iMovie, digital movie editing and compositing.

iPhoto, digital image manipulation and cataloging

Pages, full-featured MS-Word compatible word processing and graphic document creation.

Keynote, Mac equivalent of PowerPoint which saves to PP format.

There are plenty of other apps that come pre-loaded on Macs -- chat, mail, browser, etc -- that Win users would have to pay for separately.



Do the math. Assemble a suite of similar software and add it to the price of your WalMart PC. Apple brings it all to the masses in one easy-to-use and easy-to-learn package which would be completely unaffordable to those users you seem so concerned about. It's just a fact, Toad.

.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #251
303. What a preposterous bit of crap. They're priced as they're worth.
Almost everyone I know who has a home computer has a mac, and they're not rich.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #101
300. Do you have any actual numbers to back that up?
Or are we just making random assertions? 'Cause that's fun. Watch!

Most major motion picture studios are now using non-Apple hardware and software for their computer generated effects. And I have an example! Square Pictures animated Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within using a server farm consisting of "four SGI Origin 2000 series servers, four Onyx2 systems, and 167 Octane workstations. The basic movie was rendered at a home-made render farm which consisted of 960 Pentium III-933MHz workstations". (Courtesy of wikipedia, full article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within ).

Cool huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
232. They do? Better tell that to Al Gore, the Clintons, John Edwards, Bruce
Springsteen, Susan Saradon, Stephen King, Barbara Streisand, Ted Turner,Yoko Ono, and thousands of other liberal millionaires and Billionaires. I know just as many poor conservatives as I do poor liberals-more, probably. The difference is that repugs are greedy and will do anything to gain more wealth for themselves and take as much away from other people as possible. It's not enough for them to have money-they want everyone else to be poorer than they are. The poor repugs are stupid enough to believe that they'll win the lotto any day now, so they back the uber wealthy at their own expense, thinking that they'll soon be among their ranks. Liberals make their wealth by doing what they love. They don't love money for money's sake.


Macs aren't that expensive, and they save you LOTS of time in avoided aggravation. Mine has never locked up or had any significant problems in six years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. They also have Mid-Century houses and sit in Eames chairs!
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 11:39 PM by Neshanic
They are SO cool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Real Liberals use Linux
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
62. Ayup
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
76. Hell yes n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WittyUsername Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
116. Nahh, only communist America haters use linux....
:P :hide:


which reminds me, I need to put linux back on my laptop... Hmmm, think I'll go with debian...



* if you're trying to read into my post, then stop. I'm not an America hater... I love mickey mouse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
207. I run Windows, Linux and OS X on my machine.
Does that make me a centrist? :D


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #207
213. Three OS's makes you a triangulator. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:09 PM
Original message
Aye, laddie, do ye know a TRUE Scotsman?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
343. Right arm brother.
Apple's much better than windoze, but linux rocks the geeks! http://www.ubuntu.com/">Ubuntu makes it possible for the digitally challenged to easily join the ranks of creative anarchy that is destroying the corporate stranglehold on open communications.

Welcome to the next evolution.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. I started working on computers in the early 80s
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 11:47 PM by hyphenate
and went straight into PCs. It became a badge of honor to be able to discuss IRQs, DMAs, configurations, autoexec.bats, and lots of other techie stuff. I became the "PC person" long before many help desks were set up to help newbies. I had to work on a Mac several times, but I guess the geek side of me preferred to understand all the technical stuff, rather than get by with little to no real knowledge of the medium with which I was dealing.

I still prefer PCs, and I find Macs frustrating. I know I'm not normal, but who ever says I wanted to be? ;)







PS: I don't think I could explain a DMA or IRQ much anymore, but I can explain codecs, DVD-r, DVD+r, almost any software, Photoshop, plugins, P2P, and lots of other stuff which is now so much more important. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Am I allowed to run my 3D, 2D, sound and video software on my PC?
Or do I have to become a Republican first?

LOL at that article, it's completely ludicrous. Most graphics people are trained on Macs, so they continue to use them after graduation. The same software runs on the PC. It's exactly the same. The choice has exactly nothing to do with politics. I use PC's because they have more bang for the buck (I build my own), and because 3D Studio Max only runs on Windows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
79. Plenty of mac users still perpetuate the myth that Macs
do graphics better. Maybe it was true in 1997, but not now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
344. Not true. The Mac, because of it's native superiority, is far better than windoze
at handling graphics than the other platform can ever hope to manage. The inherent flaws in the windoze architecture (none of which are addressed in that abomination called vista) guarantee that it will always suck.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. lots of apple ipods are assembled in sweatshops
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. so are every other pc and mp3 player, there are only a few giant manufacturing companies
in china and they make crap for everybody including Dell and all the other pc companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I build my own.
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 11:50 PM by Breeze54
;)

But i do admit, I was sweaty.. at some point during the assembly! :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. the parts are still made in sweatshops in China.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. and Mac isn't? LOL! - 'Apple iPod factories reportedly sweatshops'
Apple iPod factories reportedly sweatshops

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13357555/

Apple Computer Inc. is having an iPod-related public relations headache this week, following a report by a British newspaper on working conditions at Chinese factories where the popular music player is built.

The Mail on Sunday reported that a Chinese factory that manufactures iPods employs 200,000 workers who live in dormitories where visitors are not permitted. Workers toil for 15-hour days for as little as $50 per month, according to the article.

As Mac fan sites buzzed with debate over the report, Apple issued a statement saying it is investigating the matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. i didn't say they weren't, i said it upthread.
Breeze my husband works for Apple and before that he worked for Compaq and his very first job was at NEC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. I worked for Digital (DEC) before it was Compaq and HP
And for Date General, Raytheon... etc. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. I worked for the companies building the parts here in the USA
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:01 AM by Breeze54
;)

Analog Devices Wins Intel's Preferred Quality Supplier Award

Business Editors/High-Tech Writers

NORWOOD, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 6, 2004

Analog Devices, Inc. (NYSE: ADI) was named a recipient of Intel Corporation's Preferred Quality Supplier (PQS) award for outstanding performance in providing products and services deemed essential to Intel's success. The company was awarded for its efforts in supplying Intel with analog integrated
circuits.

"For the 4th consecutive year, Analog Devices has distinguished itself by winning the PQS award and role modeling supplier excellence," said Jeff Jones, Director of Intel's Integrated Circuit Procurement and Enabling Division. "Analog Devices continues to set the standard for high quality, innovative semiconductors and flexible business solutions with superior execution of Intel's development requirements."

"It is an honor for Analog Devices to be considered as a best-in-class supplier to Intel," said Vincent Roche, Analog Devices vice president for Worldwide Sales and Marketing. "Achieving this honor for four consecutive years shows that Analog Devices can be counted on to consistently deliver innovative products and solutions to the PC market."

more...

-

Massachusetts

http://www.intel.com/intel/location/USA.htm#Massachusetts

Cambridge Center 1
One Cambridge Center, Suite 11
Cambridge, MA 02142
USA


Hudson 1
75 Reed Road
Hudson, MA 01749
USA
Tel: 978-553-4000


Hudson 2
77 Reed Rd
Hudson, MA 01750
USA
New Hampshire


Spitbrook 1 Office Bldg
110 Spit Brook Road
Nashua, NH 03062
USA
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. So are most other consumer electronics.
If Apple manufactured them in the USA the prices would be even higher, and then you would complain that the iPod was too expensive. Apple, thanks to our politicians, is no different than any other manufacturer. They have to compete with everyone else who has moved production out of the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I posted this in a while back......he's on the board.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
219. But he's still not enough of a geek to remove the borders of the monitors
to make a seamless display. :silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. This explains it.
"less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
81. They sound like the supporters of The One True Democrat n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. Macs are overpriced and..
they are only average as far as quality goes.

I own a macbook. I could have gotten a far superior product if I hadn't gone with apple.. and I regret my decision.

A lot of people claim that macs are superior because they are so user friendly, but they're really no easier to use than any PC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. I have never met
a single person who switched from Microsoft PCs to Mac who reverted back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. I have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
66. I've seen Lots of people go back to PC's because of Software issues with Macs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. What software issues?
Macs can also run Windows or Linux operating systems. Are you talking about Macs from the old days?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #68
87. But not right out of the box. Which is an issue
My boss had to buy a new copy of windows and then figure out how to install it and work with it. For most non-computer savy people this is too much of a hassle.

He got fed up, returned it, got a Windows laptop that he could use right away and now, frankly, I look like an idiot for suggesting he get a Mac :(

Yes, I think Apple is better- but only for people with a clue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. I wouldn't consider someone who returned the computer in a week to have
actually "switched".

Like another poster said, I've never seen someone convert to Mac ever convert back.

That said, I can't believe the intensity of feeling threads like this generate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #94
188. The point is that if it were able to run the programs we needed right away
I had hoped he would love it and then the whole office could go apple. But instead he became frustrated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #87
109. I got some help in getting Windows XP installed on my Mac Mini,
and I couldn't be happier now with the dual-boot option! I can install Linux in the future if I wanted to do that as well...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #68
124. Keep in mind I know a lot of Sound Engeineers. Sound Cards like..
...the "E-MU 1616" work better with software on Pc's than Mac's.
With Video it's the opposite....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
134. Me too.
Me too.

Fundamentally, they're both the same to me. Although I do see a replay of the Pepsi vs. Coke wars from the eighties in all this... the marketers for both companies have pretty well wrapped their target demographics around their little fingers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #134
268. "replay of the Pepsi vs. Coke wars "
That was a valid war, the products are very different- Coke is good, Pepsi SUCKS. I would rather drink warm water.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
86. My boss returned his apple laptop within a week
Many people...many companies want things that will run standard software right off the bat. I was hoping to have the entire office switched to Apple but it's not going to happen now.

It is to frustrating to non-tech people to have to figure out. The reality is most programs are built to run on windows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #86
105. So your boss really was an idiot...Macs run Windows.
Why didn't he just boot into Windows? Your tech department sounds like a bunch of morans.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #105
127. The Problem Is Windows Software SUPPLIERS & DEVELOPERS
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:23 AM by Crisco
There are tons of industry-specific programs that are created to run on Windows & Windows / DOS machines.

When personal computers were first introduced into my place of business, all of the people who were selling software were pushing hard for PCs.

What Accounting software did Mac run on in 1984?

What billing software do we have now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #105
192. Nice- thanks- you really are sweet.
Our office consists of 3 people. It is a very small business. There is no "Tech Department". My boss is a very nice, older gentleman, he does okay with very basic computer things. The apple did not come with windows installed.

He is not an idiot, thank you very much, he just isn't very tech savy. To him every moment he wastes he loses money. That's how it is when you own a small business.

I hope you realize what a jerk that post makes you sound like.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #192
236. If he hates wasting time then he really should stick to Macs
they have far, far fewer problems than PCs. I've talked four former PC using friends who were sick of crashes, lockups and viruses on their PCs into switching to Mac. Their only regret is not switching sooner!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #86
235. I have an intel based Mac which runs Windows programs just fine. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #235
269. Well...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 09:41 PM by rexcat
I have an intel based PC and it also runs windows programs just fine. I don't really need any Mac software because there are more software programs written for Windows than for Macs. In all fairness liberal also buy PCs, which I am one. This is really a silly debate that in the long run is meaningless. If you own a Mac great, if you own a PC based on Windows or Linus great. Who really cares but the person who bought the machine in the first place.

What I find frustrating is the superior attitude of Mac users. Mac owners don't have that much to brag about anymore considering the machines are now Intel based just like PCs and the availability of software is limited.

I do like your cats! Any particular breeds or just your typical friendly cats?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #269
286. This "superiority of Mac users" line is hysterical!
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:46 PM by Atman
What the hell is the point of your comment? You dislike the Mac users who think their computers are superior because in fact YOUR chosen computer is superior? Or is it that you know your chosen platform is a POS and you're tired of being reminded of it?

Seriously...no snarkage...what is your point? Your machine is so superior that you're willing to debate it's greatness among Mac users? Don't you see that you're doing the exact same thing you claim you hate about Mac users?

:crazy:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
90. I have, and when I was in line to buy my new PC a few months back
There were several others in line who were Mac owners that were buying PCs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #90
106. IN LINE to buy a PC?
I've seen lines to get rid of PC's at the dump on "Hazardous Waste Disposal Day," but I've never heard of a line to BUY one!

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #106
110. just reporting my experience
As I was one of the people in line buying a PC after trying out an iMac for two years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #110
112. I was in line at the Apple store and every other person was also buying a Mac!
Amazing!

;)

(Just busting balls...these stupid Mac/PC threads are like junk food...I know I shouldn't, but once you open the bag it's hard to stop munching)

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #112
150. Crazy. I was at Starbucks this morning and everyone was buying coffee.
It's amazing how when I shop everyone else is so much like me. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
234. Neither have I. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
78. OK. Sell your MacBook. Buy a PC. Be happy.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 08:27 AM by Tesha
> I own a macbook. I could have gotten a far superior product if I hadn't gone with apple.. and I regret my decision.

Why go on torturing yourself? Macs have good aftermarket
resale value so sell your MacBook. Buy a PC. Be happy.

After all, in all the history of computing, one or two
people have made the switch in that direction (from Mac
OS X to PC) and, heck, maybe even been happy after the
fact.

So please, stop torturing yourself and feel free to switch!

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
97. Seriously, why don't you sell it and buy what you want
Some years ago I bought my first laptop - a Vaio. Soon after I wanted to switch to Mac. So I sold the Vaio on Craigslist and bought what I really wanted.

I've been happy with my purchase ever since.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
253. I played with a few at best buy... 2 observations:
1. The case, which looks and feels cheaper than my budget Gateway model (MX8739) despite costing much more, isn't all that sturdy, nor appealing. Why not paint the case pink to complete the allusion it's the token metrosexual in the computer industry?

2. Why is best buy stooping so low?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #253
328. "2. why is best buy stooping so low?"
That's a loaded question!

Having worked for Best Buy, they only stoop low.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
295. In all my Mac days, and that's a lot, the number of Mac owners who have told me this
can be counted on one hand with fingers left over.

You got a lemon... It happens. There are more reasons for owning one than not. They are easier and they are virtually virus free. Oh, and they are not more expensive. You need to be more liberal with looking for one... :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #295
296. No.. I didn't get a lemon..
It only has one problem which really bugs me, but I can deal with it myself without having to pay for the ridiculous servicing fees they charge. (Ethernet plug doesn't work.. tried fixing it for hours on end.. can't figure it out. But I just use wireless where possible, and use my PC if there is no wireless available, like in my dorm)

The problem is, they *are* more expensive. For the same price I paid for this MacBook, I could have gotten a more powerful laptop if I hadn't gone with apple.
It doesn't bother me enough to go through the trouble of selling it and buying a new computer, I just won't be sucked in by Apple's silly advertising next time around.

After all is said and done, I like the MacBook. It is just, plain and simply, a ripoff when compared to alternatives. Its nice for somebody who has the cash and wants something that just works, though, I suppose.


And for the record, about half of the people I know who own macs also own PCs, and don't prefer one over the other. Also, I know plenty of people who previously owned mac, and went back to PC. It all depends on who you know, obviously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
41. not cool here, but I love my Apple products.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. me neither, and i like my mac but really, it's a just a computer, it's not a way of life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
47. "popular with creative types"...so you Apple people play for our team?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
52. "Less modest and more assured of their own superiority"
The one thing that almost every last Mac user I personally know has in common is that they've bought into the whole Mac cult.

One friend of mine was boasting to me and a few others about his new Macbook and isn't it so superior to a Windows PC because it has a camera built in? We were watching a DVD movie and suddenly, the whole system locked up and was completely unresponsive. He cycled the power and after everything resumed, I made an aside, "so much for Macs never crashing or locking up..." and he insisted (fairly belligerently) that the system didn't freeze or crash.

A colleague of mine asked me if I knew how to fix her Mac--it had been stuck in pinwheel of death mode for a half hour. I didn't know, so I asked another colleague (devout Mac user) what to do. He refused to acknowledge there was a problem.

Me: "Do you know how to fix this?"
Him: "Macs don't do that, I don't know what you're talking about."
Me: "This computer right here <pointing> is frozen--how can you say they don't do that?"
Him: "You can try to argue this all you want, but I'm telling you, Macs don't do that. They never crash, they never hang up, they work perfectly 100% of the time."

Another friend, who has worked for Apple doing tech support or something similar insists to this day that Macs are flawless. She even insisted that to me while she was packing up her busted Macbook to send it in to Apple to get fixed.

And with 5% of the market, I'm sure Apple's doing something right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #52
129. I have to admit, I've met people like that too
And, I can't picture a PC/Windows user ever trying to make the claim that their system always works perfectly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
175. Sounds like software unresponsive.
Click on a blank space, got to the apple icon, click on force quit, and click on the program in red type.:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #175
272. Agreed. Anytime I have ever gotten the beach ball
of death, it was due to software, not the OS. I have always had to use PCs at work, and it used to be when software hung, so did the OS. Haven't noticed that with Windows 2000, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
271. Well, I have been running Apple
for the last 5 years. I have had no problems. Do some people have problems, I am sure. It is an electronic device, running software written by humans. Is it better than a PC? That is subjective. I am happy with what I have, it works for me. Might not be for others, I would never insist that is. You are just running into the same type of people we have seen here lately- the unapologetic (name a candidate) supporter, who insists that their person can do no wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
53. Not statistically sound, but: Seattle is a more liberal city, and there are more Mac users per
capita than any other city I know of in just my observation.

Having spent time in San Francisco, NY and some other big cities, I just don't see the same laptops out in cafes, not to mention the ubiquitous white headsets. Whenever I'm in another city I just wonder where they are.

Again, not statistically sound in any way - just my observation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
55. Wow! The Apple/Jobs/Gore haters are out en masse tonight.
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Well when you imply that an entire group is better than others on the absurdity of a computer pick
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:23 AM by Neshanic
what do you expect?

It's a brilliant marketing strategy, and God bless you Apple people, but Jesus give it a fucking rest.

You would think that anything designed worth anything was only done on a Mac.

If we give you all Phillip Johnson glass houses will that shut you all up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. I didn't imply anything.
I just posted the article. I also posted that my repuke sisters refuse to use Apple products because of Gore, yet repuke Limbaugh still uses Apple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
274. "It's a brilliant marketing strategy"
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 09:57 PM by awoke_in_2003
Yep. People buy into the hype. You see the same thing with Harley Davidson. I ride a Harley, albeit it is a 23 year old Harley (and it runs stronger than when it was new). 10 or 15 years ago the mother company got into this imaging thing- Live the Lifestyle (fucking joke). Now a lot of real pricks ride Harleys- of course, only when the temp is above 65 degree (i rode mine to work today- as usual. 27 degrees, but no rain), and if the get in 50 miles on a weekend they think they are really something

On edit: I didn't ride today because I am billy badass, but because it is fun- and get 45 MPG.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #55
141. We're not "haters"
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:43 AM by kgfnally
Some of us just take exception to the misconception that Macs are cheaper than PCs. It's an oft-repeated lie. They are not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
56. Years ago a poll of Mac users was done. It found that there was a
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:20 AM by alfredo
larger percentage of left handed Mac users, something like 24%, I believe the national average is between 7-10%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
58. Smarter too, obviously. Steve Jobs is a Democrat unlike Michael Dell who is a repug. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. It's not fair to compare their CEOs.
Board members however....


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #59
102. Al Gore and his three 30" screens.
My standard reaction to that photo is always the same as Homer Simpson's reaction to donuts.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
61. Not all PCs use Microsoft
In terms of "openness," I like the option of customizing my hardware and software.

So I use Linux.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #61
330. ah, fellow penguista!
Although the Apple & M$ folks would probably characterize us as anarchists, or at least anti-authoritarian.

"It said use MicroSoft 98se or better on the box, so I loaded Linux."

For those of us who are forced by economic necessity use older hardware, Linux is the only way to go.

Chugging away on my second-hand Thinkpad T30, using Kubuntu.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
65. Has anyone mentioned that only Mac users will get to heaven?
PC users and other infidels will go to the other place.

But now there is big confusion because Macs and PCs now each use processors made by Intel and Macs can run Windows and Leopard together in peace and harmony. It's all over the commercials.

(Apple product user since 1979? when I got my first Franklin Ace 1000 (Apple II knock-off).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
182. Nah, Mac users are already in heaven.
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
276. "Mac users will get to heaven?"
No we won't. Because, not only are we more liberal, intellectual, and superior, we are also atheists :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
326. Absolutely untrue! And I can prove it
http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/linuxforchristians/blog.html

If Linux is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
67. Oh boy more operating system/computer wank.
What you use has no bearing on your political leanings or openmindedness. And every platform has their share of narrowminded zealots. Mac zealots are certainly no exception and are often the worst offenders.

People use the tool that best gets the job done. For many people that is Windows and for others it is OSX, Linux, or another operating system. On my PC, I have Linux for everyday use and XP for those programs that don't have a Linux equivalent. And a second operation system helps if you are troubleshooting hardware.

Despite what those idiotic Mac commercials and MSM tell you, PC is not another name for Windows. That's a major pet peeve of mine.

As for architecture, I prefer the easy access, selection, and inexpense of PC hardware over PPC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #67
74. Thank you! Vista user here.
I do alot of gaming so Windows is a must have for me. Vista has been working real good, so I see no reason what so ever for me to switch over to Linux or OSX. The only problem it gave me was a driver update needed for the onboard sound which was a really easy fix, and didn't take long either. So far, its been an awsome OS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #74
119. You said a lot without realizing it...
PC users are used to accepting "the only problem was..." and then saying "but it was real easy to fix!" Apple users don't worry about drivers at all. Why should we have to FIX a brand new machine? Why can't it just WORK?

While that "fix" might have been easy for you, most people wouldn't even know where to begin. I don't know a PC user who doesn't have a story about their PC being in the repair shop for a week for some silly little problem. OTOH, I've never had to use the warranty on any Mac I've ever owned since 1987. Not once. I did have a hard drive fail on an old candy iMac, the one PC users say is not upgradable, so I went to Circuit City, bought a generic hd five times the capacity of the original, and replaced it myself in ten minutes. Because I know how. Most people don't, though.

I just got a new digital camera for Christmas. I plugged it into my Mac and it was recognized immediately with NO prompting of any kind, iPhoto launched immediately and my pics were transferred. Yet when I was at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago he wanted the pics we had taken and I was absolutely amazed at the steps he had to go through to simply transfer the files from the camera to his laptop. You'd think he was trying to install a new OS or something. It didn't phase him...he also likes using Live365 for music, one of the busiest, most ridiculous interfaces I've ever seen, instead of iTunes internet radio. Some people just LIKE complicated. It makes them think they have a more robust machine. Face it, Macs are simply TOO easy for some people. I love watching long-time Windows users with a new Mac...they're totally baffled, can't understand why simple tasks don't take twelve clicks like they did on their old PC.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #119
121. I've never seen a windows box do anything but ask if you want to import the pictures
or view them. Maybe your friend is just a putz.

iTunes is a bloating POS, btw.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #121
132. Isn't it funny, the different persectives people have?
You never seen a Windows box do anything but ask if you want to import the pictures, but I watched my buddy spend ten minutes trying to figure it out. Maybe he IS a putz, but like you, I saw what I saw. As for iTunes, it works flawlessly for me and does exactly what I need and want it to do, nothing "bloated" about it from my perspective. Once again, the same "putz" that uses Live365 does so because "he doesn't want to have to buy all his music from Apple." I hear this all the time...from people who don't have a freakin' clue. I buy SOME music from Apple because it's convenient and relatively cheap. But the vast majority of the music on my Mac is from non-Apple sources, either downloads or ripped from CD. But noooo, Mr. Putz was certain (even though I've been a Mac user since 1987) that he'd have to buy everything from Apple if he used iTunes.

Have you SEEN Live365? The interface is ridiculous, the way it fills your entire screen just to display a handful of listings...and then you have to use a pop-up window as the player...yet he thinks that's preferable to the totally clean, non-intrusive, minimalist interface of iTunes. Again, maybe he's a putz. But his thinking isn't uncommon. I hear the iTunes crap (about being forced to buy from Apple) all the time.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #132
137. Haven't seen live365, never heard of it until this thread
I have used iTunes on my windows system in the past. I simply don't like Apple's approach to interface design with iTunes. Sometimes less is just less.

So I looked up Live365. I wouldn't download it simply based on their website. Winamp is all I've ever needed. However, I don't see why Live365 is "Microsoft's" problem. There is a Mac version, after all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #137
142. I didn't say Live365 was "Microsoft's problem"
I was pointing out that my PC buddy just seems to think that complicated means better and accepts that that's the way it should be.

BTW, Winamp doesn't have internet radio built-in, does it? That's the attraction...iTunes, like Live365, has tons of internet radio stations.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #142
143. Yes, it does. I listen to it at work a lot.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:46 AM by DS1
I could also stream my own music from my computer at home, remotely if I so desired, and felt it was worth the enormous energy bill. But the option is there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #143
147. Remote streaming is cool.
I don't use my home stereo for anything anymore except as an amp for my computer, which is on the other side of the house. I have an Airport Extreme which sends my music wirelessly to my amp so I can listen to it in the whole house. Gotta love it!

BTW, I really just didn't know whether Winamp had radio pre-installed, since I've never had any reason to use it. More proof that my PC buddy is just a putz! Thanks.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #119
259. I got a new digi camera too for christmas.
My pc has a card reader (most new pc's have those now) I can just take the SD card out of the camera and put it in the card reader. A small window does come up asking what to do, I simply just click on "open folder to view files". If I hook it up by USB, Adobe Photo Photoshop Album loads up what ever pictures and videos thats on it automatically, at the same time the camera is being recharged.

I buy what works for me, and you buy what works for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wise Child Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
70. Recent Switcher here,
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:23 AM by Wise Child
Since I got a Mac Mini a couple of months ago, it seems to be "smoother" user experience, for some reason. They are not perfect machines. I had to force quit a few things, a few times, (Leopard might still be a bit buggy) but there really is not much in terms of frustration I experienced with Windows XP. I don't fell superior to anyone now, Windows XP was a good OS, compared to Microsoft's previous OSes. And a computer is a computer, though I like how my Mini runs really quietly. When I felt that I wanted to move on from there, I didn't really want to mess around with Vista, so I got a Mac Mini soon after Leopard was released.

I love my Mac Mini.

edit: And I love Spaces.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #70
117. I just switched to a Mac Mini myself a couple of months ago!
One thing I was frustrated about - the anti-aliasing of the fonts that OSX uses. When I was reading text, I was having a rough time with my eyes trying to adjust to the look of the text, like they were constantly trying to refocus. I installed XP using the dual-boot, specifically for the purpose of web browsing and reading text, but am still working on learning OSX for all other uses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #117
155. Pssst...You can control the anti-aliasing in the Appearance control panel.
You can optimize it for the type of display you're using, set a minimum size, whatever. System Preferences > Appearance.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #70
279. "I had to force quit a few things, a few times"
probably not a Leopard problem- the OS wasn't locked or a force-quit wouldn't work. Older versions of windows had problems with applications freezing the OS, but I don't think that is the case anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
71. I MUCH prefer Mac, and wouldn't willingly go back to a PC. There was NO
learning curve when I switched to Mac. I am really impressed with Apple's products and as a result, have developed a loyalty to the company.

Unfortunately, I don't own stock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
75. People still use commercial operating systems?
What is this, 1997?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. I've used windoze 98 2nd ed, copied it for years
and have no reason to 'upgrade' or buy any more OS.

I downloaded Linux Ubuntu and I am also happy with it.

I use the cheapest stuff available to stay connected on the net. Macs would be great but my budget can't handle the price. I used to buy old Macs off ebay for cheap. But price-wise, the PC stuff is cheaper when you want to build from scratch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
280. Too bad that the non-commercial
operating systems- like linux- are still stuck in 1997 as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #280
339. Sorry, Beryl is the best user interface out there
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 06:49 PM by dmesg
It's parsecs more user-friendly and intuitive than Mac or Windows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
80. I use both, so what does that make me?
I use an eMac at the office and a PC at home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
82. Well that really is not good news.
If you think about it only 3% of computer <although i do not consider a MAC a computer, more like a crutch for technically challenged people> sales last year were MACS. That means that 97% of the market was PC and by this article not liberals. That means the liberal culture is dead and the majority are conservative. I guess that is why i think this is one of the stupidest things i have ever seen on DU. Put it made for a nice chuckle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #82
89. Oh Macs are computers all right.
> although i do not consider a MAC a computer, more like a crutch for technically challenged people

Oh Macs are computers all right. And they're used by some
of the most technically-sophisticated engineers and scientists.

But those folks want to use their computers to accomplish
their work rather than to make dinking around with the
computer the end goal. So they use Macintoshes, computers
that simply work with a minimum of dinking-around.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #89
91. sure
i guess i forgot the "I'm just joking thingy" Please i know all about the Steve cult. I see it everyday and it still scares me. Apple is god everything else is blah blah blah. MACS are NOT computers. They are a device of mass worship to the black turtle necked god.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Y'okay. Keep on believing that... (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #91
218. But the new Mac 'Mighty Mouse' has a whole 2 buttons
and a scroll wheel! I can understand why Apple took so long to create a mouse with more than a single button, some people get very confused when they're told that there's more than one type of 'click'. Sure, the 'Mighty Mouse' may be $50 instead of $5 for a 2 button optical scroll mouse for the PC, but the Mac version sure is shiny and purty. I'd imagine that CAD/CAM workers can get a lot more accomplished now that they're no longer confined to a single button.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #218
224. Actually, it has four, but thanks for playing.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:27 PM by Tesha
The "scroll pea" on the Mighty Mouse also allows for
Y *AND* X scrolling and does it in much smaller steps
than a classical Windows scroll-wheel mouse.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #224
230. Bwhahaha!
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:48 PM by Atman
I didn't read your post about the mouse until after I posted mine...I like the way you ended it! :rofl:

It just amazes me the ancient bullshit these people bring up. The only think missing is the "Apple is about to go out of business!" posts and this thread would sound just like the 1990's. Pssst, Mac haters...believe it or not, Apple has actually made a few changes since you were in elementary school.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #230
233. Great minds...
I didn't read your post about the mouse until after I posted mine...I like the way you ended it! :rofl:

Great minds and all that... :)

Seriously, I'm pretty happy with my wireless Mighty Mouse.
I keep waiting for the scroll pea to act up, but so far,
so good.

And there's no question that the degree of control offered
by the scroll pea is far superior to the rather-large steps
offered by the scroll wheel on most mice.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #218
228. Of course, you could use a third-party mouse like I do.
In fact, I don't use a mouse at all. I use a Kensington trackball. It has 10 buttons, plus a scroll wheel, and customizable chording for different apps. But don't let any of that get in the way of your ignorant rant.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #228
242. It's a rant to say...
That until a year or so ago that Apple only produced single button mice for Macs? And that the software designed for Macs was designed to utilize that single button? And also, Apple's own website describes it as a 2 button mouse even though it has those extremely awkward customizable side areas. It's one of the chintziest mice I've ever used. I've used many sub $10 optical scroll mice that perform just as well and feel better in my hand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #242
245. Software designed for a single-button mouse? Where do you get this stuff?
How long have you been using Macs? I've been using them since 1987. I've never seen any Mac software designed to utilize the single button. You simply clicked twice to create a "right click." For contextual menus you'd press the option key along with your click. But special software? Nope.

Look, I'm not defending the Apple mouse. I haven't used one in nearly fifteen years, I simply prefer the trackball because it is better suited to graphic design work. My beef is with the incredible disinformation -- like the "software designed for single-button mouse" -- that is out there. Or the "Macs are more expensive" argument with never takes into account the fact that you're getting several hundred dollars worth of fully functional software. Or that somehow Macs are better for "creative stuff." It's just nonsense. I have Windows XP installed on the iMac I'm using right now, and I use it regularly to test web site designs, but even this thread is filled with "Yeah, but businesses need Windows!" stuff. SO WHAT? So do I.

In all fairness, my other son (not the musician listed below) writes software for both Macs and Windows, and found it easier just to buy a cheap PC and use them side-by-side. But that's not necessary or practical for most people.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #91
281. "black turtle necked god"
Steve Jobs is a god now? Wow, chalk up one more sky daddy I have absolutely no belief in :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #82
93. Your math is seriously wrong.
You need a mac.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #93
139. My Math is based upon sales figures supplied on several
websites for 2007. I did not need a MAC to find that out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #139
314. Not what I meant. Let's review:
"If you think about it only 3% of computer...sales last year were MACS. That means that 97% of the market was PC and by this article not liberals."

The article did not say all mac owners are liberal or all pc owners are conservative.

Nor did it say most liberals are mac owners, or most pc owners are conservative.

Mac owners tend to be more liberal - but none of your conclusions fall from that.

You actual math might be fine, but your reasoning is lacking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #314
318. Ok thanks for the input.
Please tell me what the EXACT DEFINITION of more liberal is with your superior reasoning skills, i am sure you can input that into that little steve worship device there in front of you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #318
320. You seem upset. As soon as you're prepared to have a rational discussion I'll
be very happy to participate.

Let me know if that happens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #320
322. Not upset.
Why are you? My upset is much worse than that little hissy fit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #322
331. There's no hope of a rational discussion with someone who uses terms like
"steve worship device".

Sorry if pointing out your failure in reasoning with the data provided troubled you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #331
350. Hit a nerve?
I know i would not want to admit that MAC owners border on cult fanaticism either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #350
352. I don't think so. I'm just not interested in Mac vs PC quips and dick measuring.
I'm sorry you have a hard time interpreting data and have construed it to be something it's not.

And though I'd be happy to discuss it rationally, I don't enjoy getting into an idiotic contest about what is just a computer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #352
354. Thanks for trying too bad i was not converted
But then again the whole deprogramming thing. I can't say i would have enjoyed that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #82
108. The 1980's called...they said they want thier numbers back.
You don't really follow the industry much, eh? Check out sales figures of Apple laptops, just for starters.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MyNameGoesHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #108
140. I used several websites
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:43 AM by LibFromWV
showing last year sales of PC and MAC's. NOT LAPTOPS. never mentioned LAPTOPS. why do you bring up LAPTOPS. I hope the caps helped you.

OH AND STEVE called he wants your undying devotion to further perpetuate the cult. ALL HAIL THE MAN WITH THE BLACK TURTLE NECK. <so 60's by the way>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aptastik Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
83. And linux users tend to be more socially awkward
who cares?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #83
254. Mac owners. Or, worse, "Mac" owners who replace OS X with Linux...
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
84. That comes down to the price
People with higher educations tend to have more disposable income. I could never afford an Apple.

More education means you are more likeley to be liberal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
85. Apple is far more fascist than PC... Liberal my ass!
Apple: ONE manufacturer, ONE way of getting things done, ONE set of ideas. Everybody follows the mantra of "Steve Jobs knows what is best for everyone!" Planned obsolescence is the order for the day with Apple. The systems are overpriced, gimmicky, and deceptively marketed. Once you look beyond the glossy marketing material and their overtly smug attitude, you'll find yourself stuck in a hellish "our world, our way" approach to everything. Apple fanatics (not day-to-day users) are like Scientologists.

PC: Many manufacturers, many ways of getting things done, tons of ideas. Microsoft makes the dominant OS, but there are no restrictions as to what you can run: Linux (several types), Solaris, FreeBSD, etc. PCs can be upgraded! PCs have a wide range of prices! You can do whatever you want with the PC.

Macs are popular with the "creative types" because back in the 1980s and 1990s, there truly wasn't much of a choice. You HAD to have a Mac because that's where the software was. Over the last ten years, that has radically changed. Software always comes to the PC first and THEN to the Mac, unless you deal with Apple exclusives -- which are not serious tools used by serious professionals. (To be fair, there are professional shops that still use Macs because that is what they are comfortable with, and that's FINE; these aren't the ones out stroking Steve Jobs every chance they get)

Essentially, Apple has marketed their product very well. Lots of people want the pretty white headphones so they can feel "free" and hip. The fact that their products have taken off is just proof of our own cultural insecurity.

For me, I'll stick with the PC because I need to be where the technology truly is.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. Generally speaking, I find that people who write posts like this haven't used Macs.
Or haven't used Macs since the old Macintosh system software
was superseded by Mac OS X.

How about it, ReverendDeuce -- Have you driven a Mac lately
or is this all based on faith?

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #88
152. I actually own an iBook...
I've had it for a while (as evident by the fact that they don't make them anymore) and it runs OS X.

OS X is interesting and as it stands it is a solid platform. The unfortunate problem for is it is that there is, like Windows, a lot of legacy underneath. While the UNIX-like userland is present, it's mostly non-functional in terms of management. Try working with /etc; no dice. You've got to learn some new, arcane netinfo commands to do basic things.

I really don't like OS X. It's a pretty face, but the guts are a tangled mess of Apple/NeXT/BSD. It's really awful to try and manage.

And let's not even start talking about OS X in a corporate environment... whoa boy!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #85
95. Fascist? FASCIST???? Computer companies now have the attributes of governments?
Oh good lord.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #95
153. A corporation's operation resembling a political ideology is perfectly realistic...
Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. The key attribute is intolerance of others: other religions, languages, political views, economic systems, cultural practices, etc. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

The Wiki is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #85
98. Mac users are UNIX users. I can drop down into the UNIX core with
one click. Many UNIX apps run natively in OSX. I can run Windows, Linux, BSD along side OSX, or boot into those OS's.

Macs start at $599.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #98
154. What is the "UNIX core", exactly? You mean getting into a shell?
Your "natively" running "UNIX apps" have been ported to run on OS X. While the BSD underpinnings allow SOME clean-compiles of code, there typically needs to be adjustments made. You are not just downloading "UNIX apps" in binary form and running them...

As far as dual-booting, Apple releasing Boot Camp was a nice move for them, but you're still tethered to Apple's hardware lock-ins. Once you buy an Apple system, you are stuck with a dead-end piece of hardware.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #154
161. A dead end piece of hardware that stays useful for 5 to 8 years in
my case. I then either use them for legacy or Linux. And I do use the shell for various tasks like maintenance, or shell scripts.

I'm not concerned with any lock in when the machine does what I need. I don't need to run OSX on some eMachine or other crappy shovelware computer. I want something I know will work every time. I don't need to play uber geek by building some computer from parts in hope that it will work properly. It is not a toy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #161
167. On the contrary, it is a toy... You can't polish a turd...
Macs are underpowered and overpriced. Feature wise, a day late and a dollar short.

Who said anything about building your own PC?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #167
168. Strangely enough, a recent article in some trade rag said that the fastest WINDOWS laptop was...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:49 PM by Tesha
> Macs are underpowered and overpriced.

Strangely enough, a very recent article in PC World
said that the fastest WINDOWS laptop was a...

Macintosh!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136649-page,3-c,notebooks/article.html



Funny how real data works, ain't it?

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #168
176. LOL... not since 10/25/2007 it isn't!
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:58 PM by ReverendDeuce
Funny how making up arguments in vain attempts to try and make any point only serves to makes you look like a clown.

FYI, the article clearly states:

"The MacBook Pro's reign as fastest notebook ended on 10/25/2007"

Try again, fanboi!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #176
184. Oh my! It was only the fastest briefly. How utterly common. for computers.
But it still sort of shoots to shit your argument about
how slow Macintosh hardware is.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #184
190. Yup! Sort of... totally invalidated YOUR point, didn't it? LOL n/t
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #190
197. No. You claimed...
> Sort of... totally invalidated YOUR point, didn't it?

No. You claimed (here, let me refresh your memory):

> You can't polish a turd...
> Macs are underpowered and overpriced

So I showed you that, however briefly, this "turd" you're
complaining about was, in fact, the fastest laptop in the
world, as noted by PC World. And it's entirely likely that
it will be true again for another member of this turdly
family.

Clearly, with you, it's something personal since facts
(of all sorts) seem to have no effect on you.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #197
202. You are comparing your statement of fact to my generalization...
Hardly a valid comparison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #197
203. RETIRING FROM THIS THREAD NOW...
Victory is mine!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. But after you're gone, I'll still be running Unix on my Macs and you'll still be stuck
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:26 PM by Tesha
But after you're gone, I'll still be running Unix on
my Macs (well, except for my two Sunstations that are
running the Solaris flavor of Unix; they help pay for
the Porsche too) and you'll still be stuck with a PC.

So live it up.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #167
246. A lot of the people who criticize Macs are home builders. Macs are
not built to satisfy the person who uses their computer as a game console. The emphasis of the Mac has always been content creation, not game playing or bean counting. I'm willing to pay more for a well designed and integrated OS. I know I can plug in hardware and not have to also find drivers.

This is not a toy

http://www.apple.com/macpro/

Look at the design page The tool less PCI swap means no more dropping screws.

http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #98
156. Oh, and I forgot: your "UNIX core" on Windows can be had with cygwin...
http://www.cygwin.com/

Point-and-click "UNIX apps" compiled for Windows! Including your shell and sudo!

Egg on your face now, boy! LOL @ U
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #156
158. No, the difference is that the Mac is actually *RUNNING* Unix.
Cygwin is a just a shell and some applications.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #158
177. Then I guess Apple doesn't even know it's own products...
Apple clearly states that OS X is "UNIX-like"...

It is not UNIX, it never has been UNIX, and it never will be UNIX.

Just like Windows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #177
186. If they've never paid to push it through the certification process, that hardly matters.
It's still Unix,and you'll notice that its immediate parent,
Darwin, actually is a certified Unix.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #186
198. Apple paid the ISO tax for Darwin... doesn't mean OS X is UNIX... sorry, toots!
You've lose this argument two replies ago!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #186
199. According to the Wiki:
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:24 PM by kgfnally
"Mac OS X is based on the Mach kernel and is derived from the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) implementation of Unix in Nextstep. Nextstep was the object-oriented operating system developed by Steve Jobs' company "NeXT" after he left Apple in 1985.<5> While Jobs was away from Apple, Apple tried to create a "next-generation" OS through the Taligent and Copland projects, with little success."

And the beginning of the Wiki regarding Darwin:

"Darwin is a open source UNIX computer operating system released by Apple Inc. in 2000. Darwin is composed of code developed by Apple along with code derived from NEXTSTEP, as well as from FreeBSD and other free software projects.

Darwin forms the core set of components upon which Mac OS X was developed. It can also be run as a standalone operating system. It boasts full compatibility with the single UNIX Spec Vers 3 (SUSv3) and POSIX UNIX applications and utilities."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #199
201. We have a winner!
Precisely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #201
208. To be fair, Darwin represents the "core"- I assume they mean "kernel"- of the OS
Here's a little more:

"Kernel

Darwin is built around XNU, a hybrid kernel that combines the Mach 3 microkernel, various elements of FreeBSD 5 (including the process model, network stack, and virtual file system), and an object-oriented device driver API called I/O Kit.<1>

Some of the benefits of this choice of kernel are the Mach-O binary format, which allows a single executable file (including the kernel itself) to support multiple CPU architectures, and the mature support for symmetric multiprocessing in Mach. The hybrid kernel design compromises between the flexibility of a microkernel and the performance of a monolithic kernel."

So OSX is actually more of a hybrid of Darwin, BSD, NeXTStep, and a couple others.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #208
214. Yes.
> So OSX is actually more of a hybrid of Darwin, BSD, NeXTStep, and a couple others.

Yes. In fact, for any given Unix, it can be pretty difficult
to trace the "family tree" of any of the many subsystems;
at this point in time, they're all very much "interbred".

For example, if it doesn't have vi but has vim, is it "Unix"? ;)

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #214
216. Oh, that's all personal pref
I used to prefer pico. Yes... I know.

One of the things I like most about linux is that there's no "one person's way" generally speaking (does Torvalds still get final say as to what goes into the kernel releases?); it's all, "this is what works as of now, use it". All in all, I've found open source software to be more useful (and less bloated!) pretty much across the board.

Blender, for example, is very powerful- moreso than I currently take advantage of- and it can render images on a par with 3D Studio or Maya, and that's saying something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #216
221. I'm not so sure it's a personal preference.
> > vim but no vi

> Oh, that's all personal pref

At least at one point, I don't think it was purely a
question of personal preference. (I haven't looked at
the standards lately, but) back then, I'm pretty sure
that the presence of the vi editor was required
for a Unix implementation to claim to be fully standards-
compliant. Obviously, though, anyone familiar with vi
could survive with vim*, but the law was (is?) the law. ;)

Tesha


* To this day, I *STILL* haven't trained my fingers
to understand that when I press an arrow key, vim doesn't
drop out of "insert" mode whereas vi does. Maybe I should
never have learned to use the "arrows" extension to vi
and should have stuck with h, j, k, and l? ;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #221
345. Wow. I wasn't aware of that.
They were that picky about even something so small as a stupid command line text editor?

Yowza. I'm glad we're past that. I don't really care what package it is, as long as it does the job it says it does.

Vi drops out of inset mode using arrow keys? Either I have a newer version of vi, or I'm using vim and it's lying about what it is. I couldn't possibly care less either way, of course. They each get the job done equally well.

Now: KDE or Gnome?

:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #345
348. Yes, they really were that picky! But as I said...
> They were that picky about even something so small as a stupid
> command line text editor?

Yes, they really were that picky! But as I said, I've been
out of that end of the business for a while so I don't know
what the current state of affairs is.


> Vi drops out of inset mode using arrow keys? Either I have
> a newer version of vi, or I'm using vim and it's lying about
> what it is.

Lots of systems nowadays, well, they don't exactly "lie" but
they sorta-kinda mislead you. You type "vi", "which" tells
you it's "vi", but it's really vim. The OLPC XO that I mentioned
in another post was like that.

And there's probably some configuration switch (besides the
"absolute vi behavior" switch) that will modify this behavior,
but I've never bothered to find it; eentually, I'll just retrain
my fingers to whack <escape> much more often than I do now, this
behavior will be backwards-compatible to real vi, and all my
troubles will be over ;).

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #156
164. I don't have to go third party to have a UNIX core. Inkscape, GIMP,
Scribus, Xephem, Links all work from my dock. No need to launch some "Linux Like" emulation layer.

http://www.macports.org/

http://www.finkproject.org/

Maybe Windows 7 will bring your OS into the 21st century.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #164
172. What is this "UNIX core" you speak of? Where can I buy "UNIX" for my Mac?
I'd love to be able to buy "UNIX" and put it on my Mac... Too bad it can't be done.

Wiki is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X

"Mac OS X is based on the Mach kernel and is derived from the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) implementation of Unix in Nextstep. Nextstep was the object-oriented operating system developed by Steve Jobs' company "NeXT" after he left Apple in 1985.<5> While Jobs was away from Apple, Apple tried to create a "next-generation" OS through the Taligent and Copland projects, with little success."

<snip>

"Since Mac OS X is based on UNIX, most software packages written for BSD or Linux can be recompiled to run on it. Projects such as Fink, MacPorts and pkgsrc provide pre-compiled or pre-formatted packages. Since version 10.3, Mac OS X has included X11.app, Apple's version of the X Window System graphical interface for Unix applications, as an optional component during installation.<13> Up to and including Mac OS X v10.4 (Tiger), Apple's implementation was based on the X11 Licensed XFree86 4.3 and X11R6.6. All bundled versions of X11 feature a window manager which is similar to the Mac OS X look-and-feel and has fairly good integration with Mac OS X, also using the native Quartz rendering system. Earlier versions of Mac OS X (in which X11 has not been bundled) can also run X11 applications using XDarwin."

Case closed! OS X provides a compatibility layer that allows most applications based around UNIX architecture to recompile for OS X with minimal code changes.

OS X still isn't UNIX, it's just behaving like UNIX for the sake of providing limited-enough userland support to run things like "ls" and GIMP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #172
179. You really are resistant to learning, aren't you?
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:58 PM by Tesha
Mac OS X *IS* Unix. That it is a Unix which happens to be
built atop the Mach microkernel is immaterial; that was
simply a design decision regarding how to build this
particular Unix.

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_%28kernel%29

Might I also call to your attention the following
article:

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_BSD_operating_systems

It doesn't split any hairs about Mac OS X being a member
of the BSD Unix family. This artice may also help you
understand Mac OS X's family tree:

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #179
200. I can keep swatting your arguments down like flies all day...
I am right and that's just the way it is!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReverendDeuce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #179
204. RETIRING FROM THIS THREAD NOW...
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #172
262. Here's a good Linux Distro
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/ As of last year RedHat was working on a Intel Mac distro YellowDog will run on PS3

Open SUSe 10.1 runs on PPC Macs. I also think NetBSD, Debian and others work with the PPC.

OSX is already UNIX. http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html

UNIX certification.
Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software.


With VMware Fusion you can run linux inside OSX without rebooting. The below image may take a couple seconds to load.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
194. DING DING DING n/t
"P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
96. All about the MAC here - though not assured of my superiority.
Just my equality. ;-)

I have always used a MAC. My first computer was an Apple IIe in 1985. Not sure why I have always been fiercely loyal to them, but it was love at first sight, and I've remained loyal ever since.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Good design has a very subtle "draw" to it.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 09:33 AM by Tesha
> Not sure why I have always been fiercely loyal to them,
> ut it was love at first sight, and I've remained loyal
> ever since.

Good design has a very subtle "draw" to it. Often, it's
hard to enunciate what actually inspires the attraction
but one knows it when they see it.

Apple Macintosh hardware and software has often been an
exemplar of good design (with, yes, a few duds along the
way). Apple's designers are often the trend setters that
the rest of the industry then follows.

The main point that I'd claim is that Macintoshes (and
now, Apple design in general) *DON'T GET IN THE WAY* of
whatever it is you're actually trying to do, whether
it's watch a movie, *MAKE* a movie, browse the web,
listen to music, or write your doctoral thesis.

If you're spending all your time "noticing" the computer
rather than just "using" the computer, then there's some
sort of a design problem with the computer.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #96
118. The dude in that photo uses a Mac.
There was a photo of Kerry in a Time magazine in 2004 using his PowerBook in his home office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #118
160. I saw that!
I loved that pic. I have the same computer, except he has a larger version.

It's a good computer, I have really enjoyed it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
100. thats only because of the demographic that uses Apples and has little to do w.Apples environmental
policies etc

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
111. We eat sushi and drink white wine and lattes too.
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WittyUsername Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
113. I've always had the same impression...
Always seem to be fairly true too. Although, I do know this guy up in Alberta,Canada who swears by his mac, but he's pretty damn conservative.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
114. Apple users more environmentally friendly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
120. Are we actually going to try and define politics by OS now?
Jesus Christ.

I use a PC. I use one because it has always been easier to use a PC for statistical work than a Mac. Period. That's it.

This is like trying to categorize liberals vs. conservatives by what kind of car they drive...oh wait, Hummers...

Or by where they have dinner...wait, Olive Garden...

:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #120
122. I think people are maing a LOT more of this than it is.
Some research indicates that Mac users tend to be more liberal than PC users.

It only points to a trend, it's not absolute, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean what you buy determines who you are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #120
211. The categorization only works if you know they showed their receipt.
:silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
123. our household is bi...
an apple laptop, a BRAND SPANKIN' NEW IMAC, and a getting older pentium 4 1.6ghz dell pc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
125. No my favorite multinational, sweat-shop-exploiting corporation is better than yours!
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:19 AM by Beelzebud
You all remind me of kids on a gaming website arguing over PS3 or Xbox360.

Apple is a corporate piece of shit just like the rest of them. Steve Jobs hasn't been a hippy for 35 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #125
128. There was a thread about Macbooks not having many fans
on fark the other night, and someone pointed out that all the hot air gets ported directly Steve Jobs's mouth.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #125
130. He hasn't been a hippy for 35 years?
Damn. There goes my life's ambition to buy computers from hippies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #130
131. The best thing about you mac users is your open mind, and your modesty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #131
135. No, it's our smugness.
Though I was no less smug when I used PCs.

But I dunno. I'm still a little shaken to learn that I'm not buying computers from hippies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #135
144. WIthout my Mac, how would I get enough work done to make the Porsche payments? (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #144
151. That was so funny I spat out my caviar.
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #131
297. I had an open mind once
and learned how to program assembly language (don't ask why, necessary for a 1-1/2 year project) on both platforms.

Mac beats Windows, hands down. In efficiency, in stability, in backwards compatibility, in overall design. I've been running Mac ever since.

Windows may be cheaper, depending on what your time is worth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #297
310. Bingo.
> Windows may be cheaper, depending on what your time is worth.

Bingo.

You'll note that aside from a few folks who are running
specific professional applications that are only available
for Windows (Autocad, electrical CAD, accounting, and the
like), everyone else who is extolling PCs here either builds
their own computers or plays games with their computers.

In other words, they *WANT* to spend time with their
computers. There's nothing wrong with that, of course,
but I spend all day working with computers and so I
don't find further computer time, in and of itself,
whether building hardware or loading/fixing software,
any sort of recreation.

So while I routinely use PCs, Sunstations, and Macintoshes,
my *PREFERENCE* is for the computer that best "gets out
of my way" and that, very clearly, is a Mac.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #310
346. I don't do any of those things.
I use a mac all day at work, and I come home to my Sony Vaio. I like the Vaio about a million times better, and keep asking my boss to either let me bring it in to work or let me use our lone office PC (we have to have one because two applications vital to the operation are Windows only) but he's quite convinced that our buggy piles of pretty but overpriced crap are quite superior.

We have a pool at work for how long it will be until he devises an excuse to expense a macbook air. We know the only holdup on an iphone is that he's still under contract w/ another carrier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #346
349. FYI: I have a Vaio laptop too, currently running Win2K.
FYI: I have a Vaio laptop too, currently running Win2K.
And when my son-in-law needed a PC-based laptop (for
his archi-CAD and surveying work), we did the buying
for them and bought another Vaio (running XP).

But I still prefer my Macs, and not just because my Vaio
is limping along on way-too-little memory (RAM).

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
133. Ergo, All DUers must be DUing from Macs from now on!
Go on! Get to that Apple Store and get your MacBook or MacBook Air and join the rest of civilization!

;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
136. BS. Maybe back in the late 90s, when Apple was considered dead, but not now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
145. something else about Mac users...
Maybe Mac users are better at interpreting data, too. :o

What the study said:
On average, Mac users are more liberal than PC users.

Things the study did not say:
All PC users are conservative
All Mac users are liberal
Using one or the other *makes* you conservative or liberal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
146. popular with scientists, too
Of course, scientists are among the "creative types" mentioned in the article; scientific research is a creative endeavor.

When I go to astronomy meetings, often the back five or ten rows in a lecture hall will be filled with people not listening to talks, but almost exclusively working on their Powerbooks or Macbooks. The integration of Unix and MacOS makes it simple to run your data analysis software in one window and iTunes in another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dropkickpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #146
149. eh
I work in a cancer research facility, and just about everyone uses PCs here. We've got radiation oncologists, statisticians, molecular biologists, biochemistry, immunology, surgery, pharmacologists, MDs, etc etc etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #146
196. the integration of Unix made all the difference! That's when I happily bailed from
my Windows machine and linux boxes that never quite worked right (no full-time sys admin to keep them going). I love my Macs now! I can conduct an observing run across the Internet in one window, run vnc in another, access Excel and Word (and iTunes) all at the same time. Life is great. No dual boot, no not quite getting all the characters right in linux-versions of office programs, and my computer hardly ever locks up, crashes or needs rebooting (knock on wood).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
157. im not a microsoft fan persay
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:04 PM by iamthebandfanman
but i do like windows XP

by far the most stable thing theyve ever created, besides windows 2000.


the market is really kinda vulnerable... its to bad someone cant make an OS from scratch to compete with microsoft... i think they are ripe to go down(forcing people to switch to new buggy software isnt a way to run a business)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. It's not at all clear (to me, at least), why one would want a new operating system.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:39 PM by Tesha
> its to bad someone cant make an OS from scratch to compete with microsoft

It's not at all clear (to me, at least), why one would want a new
operating system. Unix (and Linux, I don't really distinguish the
two as they're so similar) is a pretty satisfactory set of under-
pinnings and it has had enough time that nearly all of the bugs
are shaken out of it. Until we have a really new paradigm for how
the underlying hardware works, I don't see a need for a new OS.

It is nice that the "presentation layer" keeps evolving, though.
Some of the changes are actually even useful (rather than just
being CPU-intensive "eye candy").

It's also nice that file systems keep evolving. I'm looking
forward to Mac OS X adopting Sun's ZFS file system (that's
now in Solaris); this should be a big step up in the reliability
of the file system.

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

So my desire is for continued incremental improvement, not
revolutionary new developments.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
163. OMG! What if I use BOTH? Does that make me a Bilibertarian?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
169. My son has a MacBook and I use a Gateway Laptop PC that's about 7 years old? The ONE beef I have
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 12:49 PM by in_cog_ni_to
with the MacBook is the backspace key can't be used to go back a page. You have to either use 2 fingers (backspace and shift? 'curly-Q key') or go to the back arrow on the page. That drives me nuts. There may be a way to go back a page without having to do either of those things, but I don't know what it is. I know NOTHING about Macs...can you tell?

I think the quality of the MacBook beats the hell outta my Gateway and when my laptop dies, I'm getting ME the NEW MacBook AIR! :loveya: That thing is unbelievable. It fits in a manila envelope! Anyway...that's my .02 on the subject that I know nothing about. LOL.:)

Oh yeah...my son's MacBook was purchased in April of last year and the hard drive went out in NOVEMBER. That royally sucked. 7 month old hard drive fails? NOT good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Omphaloskepsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #169
306. The Backspace key on my iMac takes me back a page...
I just tested it in Firefox and Safari.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #306
316. I'll be damned!
I never knew that, and I've been using Macs since 1987! LOL! Thanks for the tip...yes, it works on my Mac, too.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
170. Can we please put this nonsense into a bit of perspective?
How many of the people reading this drive a car they absolutely LOVE? You know, you wash it regularly, take good care of it because it's reliable and takes good care of you? Maybe it's even the second or third one of the same make or model you've purchased because you actually like your car.

Why is this so difficult for PC users to understand? Or Mac users, for that matter? If you have a car that consistently works for you, never has to go into the shop, doesn't cost an arm and a leg, turns heads when you drive down the street, what the hell is wrong with being passionate about it went people jump all over you and tell you it's a piece of shit? The arrogance doesn't come from the Mac side, as I see it, it's from all those people who purport to know what should motivate us to buy -- and like -- a certain product, whatever the hell that product is.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
171. right is conformist and has poor research skills--they drive more American cars too
despite their unreliability and poor gas mileage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
173. Sometimes, it's hard to be humble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #173
180. THAT is my next laptop. Is that awesome or what?
:loveya: Though, I haven't priced the little beauty yet. It may be waaaay over my price range.:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #180
189. It doesn't suite everyone, but it certainly seems sweet.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 01:10 PM by Tesha
It doesn't suite everyone, but it certainly seems sweet. ;)

In its base configuration (1.6 GHz Intel Core 2 CPU, 2GB RAM,
80 GB hard disk), it's $1799. Addinng an external optical
superdrive (DVD burner) will set you back an additional $99,
but for many people who already have aa Wi-Fi network and an
optical drive on their existing Mac or PC, there's no need for
that. If you want to go really crazy, Apple are test marketing
(my tale on it, anyway) a version with a 64 GB Solid State Drive
(and a slightly-faster processor) for $3098.

Really, it's most-suited for an environment where there's
already a good wireless infrastructure (so Wi-Fi, networked
printers, and networked back-up storage). But you may already
have all that and Apple will certainly sell you the pieces to
make that possible.



Tesha



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #173
183. $1800.....or $3100. 1.6GHz is $1800.00 and the 1.8GHz is $3100.00. Gotta save my pennies!n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #173
217. Burn me a DVD on that and get back to me
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #217
222. In a subsequent reply, I explained how that's done.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:24 PM by Tesha
In a subsequent reply, I explained how that's done;
it uses a technology Apple is calling "Remote Disc".
They even support booting the Mac Air from a Remote
Disc optical volume.

See:

o http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2739183&mesg_id=2742986

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #173
260. Looks like a poorly made cookie sheet. Who's the target market anyway, one USB port and all?
Seems more a waste of resources - and whoever designed it should be fired for putting in only one sodding USB port...

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Akoto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
181. People who like chocolate are more liberal than vanilla lovers.
I can generalize too! ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
185. Mac users don't suffer from Psoriasis
and never have the pain and irritation from inflamed hemorrhoidal tissues.:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #185
255. And they lack the brains to get alzheimers from, and lack the money to pay for the drugs simply
because they bought a mac and ran out of money for anything else.


I win! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #255
264. What'd you win? Is it shiny?
Actually, some of us make union wages and can afford Macs, iPods, and your Pac-Man/Mario games as well... with some Metroid thrown in for more fun! Do you really expect me to sync up my $2000 Nikon to a $500 Windoze tower?:rofl:

Excuse me. I've got a new york strip on the grill. I need to turn it before it burns, or I'll have to thaw out another one, and that will take hours.:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
191. Ford Sucks! Chevy RULES!
I never have understood why some folks get all bent out of shape because people prefer one platform over another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #191
209. LOL! Two guys arguing about Ford/Chevy asked me...
Which is a better car.

I said BMW. They both groaned and walked off.:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
193. Hmm, I'm a PC user and I'm pretty liberal.
Could it be the fact that originally Apple was more expensive and not really offered in a lot of rural areas where most conservatives live?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #193
210. Or could be that people are misunderstanding the data.
It doesn't say Mac owners are liberal and PC owners are conservative.

It just references some trends among owners.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #210
223. Or it could be that the trends are meaningless at best
and saying that Mac users tend to be more liberal has about as much value as saying that people that use a certain kind of razor tend to be more liberal. Much ado about nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #223
226. Could be. But marketing is big money because it pays off.
If market research indicates a political profile for a certain market segment, I don't know why it would be suspect or why it would have any special value attached to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #226
270. Because the people who are suspect HATE MACS.
:shrug:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
195. Typing this from my new IMac bought in September...
Liberal & artsy, intellectually curious, adventurous & emotional that's me. O8)

But the superiority part...NO. In fact it's the opposite. We are all EQUAL-I'm sick of the class war that's going on in this country. It's NOT what this country was founded upon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
206. Macs prevent Irritable Bowel Syndrome
Windows causes Restless Leg Syndrome.

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
220. Oh no! I'd better run out and buy a Mac or Romney might win!!!
:D lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
227. That's not surprising. Haven't you seen the Apple commercials?
PCs are the standard for businesses. Macs have always been positioned as the alternative. Business school students use PCs in school (mostly). Teachers, graphic artists and creative types learn on Macs (mostly).

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #227
231.  They mostly come at night... (mostly)
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 02:55 PM by Touchdown


Sorry. Just watched the movie last weekend. I couldn't resist.:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #227
237. Good lord, don't you people ever get any new material?
Rush Limbaugh uses a Mac. I know two different friends who've owned PC's forever and are switching (actually, one of them is a chiropractor and bought his kid a MacBook for Christmas because he got straight A's in school -- during the process of buying it, he dug it so much he switched their home machine to an iMac). The other guy is a hard-core Republican (claims to be a libertarian, but he's not), more money than god, a sales rep for a medical supply company. After sending his PC back to the shop for the third time he's decided to buy an iMac. Neither of these people are "creative types" or any of the things you mentioned.

There was a time, many many years ago, when that argument held water, because programs like PageMaker and Photoshop just weren't available for Windows, and because old versions of Windows (based on DOS) were limited by DOS's 80-character text-based screen rendering...images had to be broken up to fit as sub-sets of the 80 character width, and the result was not very attractive. But that was so many years ago. There is nothing special about a Mac that makes it better for "creative types" except for that we like computers that work, work consistently, and don't spend time at the repair shop. Plus, my 20" iMac (practically an antique!) takes up virtually no space on my desk, and the simplicity of the design is both beautiful and unobtrusive.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #237
240. Did you intend to reply to me?
Because your reply doesn't make any sense as a response to what I wrote.

PCs are used in business schools. More Macs are used by people in education, communications, graphic arts, and other creative majors. So when business majors get out of school, most buy a PC. When creative types get out of school, most buy a Mac. That has nothing to do with which is better. Just what is used.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #227
257. Those grossly misleading cult indoctrination sessions?
It's bull that the mac brat says he has no problems. OS X users were whining and mooing about the lacvk of compatibility for high end digital cameras and printers; I loved their rants over the Epson Stylus Photo 2200 - a professional archival photo printer... uh-oh. Mac users spend $2500 on a system, buy a $1000 printer, and can't get it to work? Don't try thinking different, it's not going to work.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
229. Makes sense to me!
It's no great secret that Macs have always been popular with creative types--

This composer uses a Mac for music notation...:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #229
238. One of my sons has a dual processor tower Mac and a mixing board...
He has an 8-channel mixing board plugged into it. He has a keyboard and electric guitar plugged in and records and mixes original tunes using Garage Band -- another freebie that comes pre-loaded on the Mac. In fact, that's part of the cost equation Mac-haters never take into account. You literally do not need to buy any software if you don't need specialized apps because everything from iTunes and DVD authoring and digital movie editing plus an MS-Word compatible word processor and PowerPoint compatible presentation program all come pre-loaded. Not trial versions, full-functioning apps. It would cost far more than the price of any cheap PC just to load it up with similar software. But we still hear "Macs are sooooo expensive." :eyes:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #238
239. Man! That sounds like quite a setup...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 03:37 PM by KansDem
I just have a PowerMac with Finale2002 (I have a Finale2007 upgrade but need to upgrade my Mac--it's currently running OS 8.6--:blush:)

Hmmmm--now that's something I could do with my George "Love Me Don't Leave Me" Bush rebate...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rob H. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
241. I've been a Mac user since 1989
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 04:15 PM by Rob H.
I chose to continue buying and using them because I like the Mac OS. Doing anything--even simple tasks--on Windows seems like a chore to me, and since my job is all about page layout, photography, etc., usually under pretty strict deadlines, anything that makes using software more pleasant and less stressful is worth it to me.

The last time I used Windows full-time I was on a machine running NT4 and it seemed as if the simplest action resulted in a virtually endless succession of dialog boxes:

Dialog box: Are you sure you want to do _insert action here_?
Yours truly: Clicks 'Yes'

Dialog box: Are you really sure?
Yours truly: Clicks 'Yes'

Dialog box: Are you really, really sure?
Yours truly: Clicks 'Yes'

Dialog box: Are you really, really, really sure?
Yours truly: Sighs, clicks 'Yes'

Dialog box: Seriously, do you really wanna do that? C'mon, now, be honest.
Yours truly: Clicks 'Yes', growls, "Just do it and get out of my way, goddamnit!"

Dialog box: Sorry, you don't have sufficient privileges to do that. Abort, Retry, Fail?
Yours truly: Throws machine out the window, goes home for the rest of the day.

Okay, that's embellishing a bit, but not as much as you might think. (I never actually chucked my PC out the window. :P ) Maybe a little more actual productivity and less fucking hoop-jumping would've converted me to Windows, but I doubt it. It seemed as if it took twice as many steps as it did to accomplish exactly the same thing on the Macintosh and in a deadline-intensive workplace, seconds count.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #241
256. That's not far off. The simplicity of the Mac OS tends to throw Win users off.
I mentioned that up-thread. My friend who bought his kid the MacBook was a good case in point. Being a teenager, the kid didn't bother to read any manuals or take any tutorials, he just started clicking stuff and dragging and dropping shit all over the place. It was almost too simple for him. He was place apps directly on the dock, then wondering where they went after he dumped the disk image they resided on. It was kind of comical.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #256
282. When I converted I had a very hard time for a bit there.
I had to retrain myself away from all the Windows work-arounds to things just working simply and properly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
243. Now that you Mac people have that marketing hook in your mouth.
"It's no great secret that Macs have always been popular with creative types".

How about, "It's no great secret that computers have always been popular with creative types".

Now Mac owners justify their coolness scientifically. It's a fact! How insecure does a group of consumers have to be to have swallowed a marketing gig so completely and without even giving a thought to the absurdity of it. Yes, we PC people are the Luddittes of the world, slogging away with our icon of ultimate unhipness a tubby suited man with glasses, compared to a sexually ambigious "dude" that looks like a Seattle loft clone. But that's it, the Mac people are not content with a personification that they can lay claim to be superior to the lowly PC user, they need proof! Viola! Here it is.

Now you can be vindicted in your objectification and mastabatory acts performed over the latest thing from Apple, AND know for a fact that you are a "creative cool type".

Call all those uncreative types at the Achitecture and Landscape Architecture firms in your town or city. PC or MAC? Well dollars to doughnuts its a PC office. Yes there are some but the majority are PC. How did they ever survive? The rally cry of "get a Mac" they obviously did not hear. How do these things get designed? They are so uncreative!

It is so sad and monumentally pathetic to have a group so utterly convinced they are defined by a...wait for it...A COMPUTER. Do you see PC people constantly trying to ram their PC world down yours? I am so happy that you can buy and work on a Mac. I truly am, but this warped marketing ploy that now has you Mac people in a self love orgy is just wierd; especially the creative angle thing that is so stupendously creepy it defies logic.

It's a computer. You have one, I have one. I am creative I would think, and work in a creative field along with others that are just as creative, liberal, and open minded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #243
273. Good post!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #273
277. No, it isn't. It's pure bullshit.
"Do you see PC people constantly trying to ram their PC world down yours?"

Well, uh, YEAH! Like you and all the other Mac/Jobs haters in this thread.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #277
308. Woe, what?! You dont see me saying "buy a pc", do you?
Like I said in a earlier post, I buy what works for me, and you buy what works for you. If you like Macs, more power to you, if it works great for you, thats great:thumbsup: Vista works for me, I do alot of gaming so its a must have, esp for the new DX10 games. Other than gaming, it does just fine for internet surfing and other essentials, I have a good anti-virus/spyware program so I'm covered their. Programs load up way way faster than my 4 year old gaming pc with XP, which I'v had numerous problems with, two 10,000rpm hard drives in Raid0 really helps.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #243
283. Don't even bother to fight the fanboyism. There will be threads like this as long as there is a DU.
"Mac users are smarter/more liberal/more creative"

I'd say, cough cough, that the majority of the threads started come from one particular side of the "debate", such as it is, but I haven't exactly been keeping count.

I make build it yourself PCs that run Windows, so I guess I have to vote for Mitt Romney now or something. :eyes:

I enjoy building them, which is basically not an option with proprietary Mac computers, and among other things my PCs are a gaming platform for me and that aspect is a big deal to me. And it's cheaper for similar computing power. And XP has been a very stable platform for me.

Microsoft does suck in many ways such as foisting new OS's onto people when they really don't want them, but there are a lot of advantages to PCs, mainly being cost for comparable hardware, and the ability to build and customize yourself for those who go in for that sort of thing. But it's not as though Apple is some ethically pure corporation and that no starvation wage Chinese labor was ever used to assemble an iPod or anything. And I have a high end iPod too, which I think is a pretty decent product, although I blame Apple for engaging in shitty proprietary format wars there, in a field in which it is dominant, much like Microsoft does in its dominant field of OS software.

We see on this one thread arguments that the cost is comparable, and then in the same thread, that "you get what you pay for" LOL. So which is it? The cheapest Macs are good and you don't have to spend 2K to get a decent Mac? Or any computer you spend less than a thousand on is shit because "you get what you pay for?"

Sigh. Okay, back to not posting on these threads anymore! :hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #283
287. You are a brave soul fellow "unsmart, uncreative, less liberal" PC person.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:06 PM by Neshanic
Yes you are absolutely right. The fanbois of the shape of the Apple are resolute, so it's a never ending screeching from them.

It's just that this angle takes the cake, it really does.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #243
284. Oh, and just the fact that the service desk at the Apple store is the "Genius Bar" is annoying as
hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #284
288. It's a joke, man. It says more about your insecurities than anything else.
Most people joke about tech-weenie nerd guys. Best Buy and other chains tout their "Geek Squads." So what the bloody hell is wrong with Apple's approach? You don't think it's legit unless it's self-denigrating? See your shrink...it's not Apple's problem!

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #288
291. Oh please!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #284
289. yup, i iz a guzintos geenzus, an thy kicted me out o thar sinz i got no imax.
kan yu beife that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Omphaloskepsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #289
311. LOLCats is this way----->
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
244. Mac user since early 90's....love my Macs!!!!
Great for graphics!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
247. Best news article of the year, bar none! Right up there with Britney's saga!
And Steve Jobs' pissing and whining about teacher unions and the state of education while doing nothing to rectify the problems he whines about (which is the sure sign of a real wimp).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
258. www.computertakeback.org - green mac zealots should be ashamed.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 06:05 PM by HypnoToad
http://www.computertakeback.org

See menu on the left to navigate. (to corporate responsibility -> apple )

NHice pics in there too; the one how HP and Dell were already doing things... pleaing to green little apple... greenpeace is known for not liking Apple too. Now they can be overzealous, but for Apple they needn't show chicken guts on the sidewalk or anything. Apple did it for them.

Apple ought to be ASHAMED of itself; its users blinded from the wool pulled over their eyes.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #258
265. All hail! The Grand Inquisitor has spoken!
HypnoTorquemada. Do not ask him about competition.
HypnoTorquemada. Do not implore him for freedom of choice.
HypnoTorquemada. Do not beg him for non-conformity.

Let's face it! You can't Torquemada anything!


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
266. The idiocy in this thread is astounding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #266
267. Glad you could join us.
:hi:

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BulletproofLandshark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
275. I'll never buy a Mac.
Not because of quality issues, or even the cost. My PC is my primary gaming platform, and Macs are far less supported than PCs are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCappedBandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #275
298. This is the same reason..
i'd never consider a mac for my desktop!
Well, one reason anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
278. If you play games and have a lot of free time on your hands, get a PC
If you use a computer professionally and it belongs to you, get a Mac.

Mac users get defensive because Microsoft has used non-competitive shenanigans to lock a superior operating system out of 95% of the market.

That is all.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
290. I've got a dual-boot MacBook, because one of my steady customers requires me
to use a proprietary software that runs only on Windows XP.

Frankly, after years of doing Japanese input on a Mac, I find the same function in Windows to be tedious and unnecessarily complicated.

Windows has better pre-installed games (I've become a Free Cell addict), but on the whole, Internet content looks clunky and retro in IE.

So I stick with the Mac side. Except for that one client, I've been able to exchange MS Office files with PC users for a good 10 years, without either of us knowing who's using what.

I'm not a computer geek. I don't WANT to build my own PC any more than I want to build my own car. I like the retail model, too, free in-store customer service at the Apple Stores, and otherwise, mostly small authorized resellers who know and love Macs, like FirstTech in Minneapolis or The Computer Store in Oregon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
301. I use both
so what does that make me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
302. In all seriousness y'all...
There's a very large subset of software that just won't run on a Mac O/S.

I'm talking about games.

That's my hobby. That's why I have a PC to begin with. If I can't game on it a computer isn't really much good to me.

That's why I use Windows. I can walk into a game store and have hundreds of titles to chose from. I can't get that on a Mac O/S. Hell, I can't get that on LINUX no matter how much I futz around with WINE. If I want to game I have to use Windows.

If Apple can address that then I'll gladly switch over. I'd like nothing better than to give Billy G the ol' one finger salute. But until that issue gets resolved I'm sticking with Windows.

And if that makes me a bad liberal then I'll just have to live with that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
304. Regardless of Which One Is Better...
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 12:58 AM by Steely_Dan
Apple can still say that they created the greatest TV commercial in history...According to countless surveys over the years. You got to admit, it was pretty effective.

By the way...I wouldn't use a PC if it were that last computer on Earth.

-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
305. Real liberals don't pledge loyalty to corporations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #305
319. Buying a product or habing a preference is now a oyalty pledge?
Man, there is some incredibly flawed reasoning going on here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:16 AM
Response to Original message
307. I'll reserve judgement on this issue until I hear what Phred Phelps has to say about it...
I love these threads. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Omphaloskepsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
312. Get back to me when I can run TextMate and CSSEdit on a Windows box.
Those two apps have saved me thousands. Fuck, I paid 200$ more for my iMac. I don't care. The applications I need to run work on a Mac. The Windows equivalents are shit. I don't play games. I'm old, fucking with hardware and software was interesting in 1997. I use my computer to pay my rent.. It just has to work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
315. Well, as I'm left handed...
Well as I'm left handed, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that I consider everyone less creative and open-minded than myself, and that I fairly and righteously hold all of you in contempt-- regardless of which OS you use...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
317. College educated wealth tends to be more libera

And, they are the people who buy macs.

This study is meaningless.

I would love a Mac but I CAN'T afford one.

I am as liberal as the day is long....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #317
321. Yes, it's basically an issue of demographic, and that's about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HannibalBarca Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #321
355. This is nonsense
I have a dell inspiron laptop, a dell desktop (modified by myself), an ibook and an ipod nano. I prefer the inspiron and dell desktop since they are so customisable and less proprietary.I'm not a huge fan of OSX for a variety of reasons, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. I do like the ipod though the sound is inferior to a sony player that I had but its a nifty little device. Apple's revival has as much to do with the style they have successfully created and cultivated as their technology. They do seem to have legions of disciples that are willing to crucify on their behalf.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #355
358. See, you like to play with computers.
> I prefer the inspiron and dell desktop since they are so
> customisable and less proprietary.

See, you like to play with computers. I prefer computers
that come from the factory fully-configured for what I need
and as long as one can increase the mass storage and main
memory as time goes by (which you can certainly do on any
Mac except the Mac Air which ships with 2GB of soldered-in
RAM), usually feel no further need to "customize" my computers.

(I did add a second video card to our Mac mini-tower, but
now I'd just buy a dual-head video card to begin with.)

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #317
327. Bingo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
329. What is it about this topic
that gets people to whip their dicks out to see whose is bigger? Seriously? Who cares?

(I have a Mac, but I'm quite content using both Mac and PC.)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #329
333. I think in part, a massive failure at understanding the information.
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 05:33 PM by mondo joe
No one said all Mac users are liberal.

No one said all PC users are conservative.

No one said most liberals use PCS.

You really almost can't point out any statistical trend without someone feeling insulted by it, or having to point out that they are an exception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #333
334. The funny thing is, you could make the same case about ANYTHING.
Cheerios eaters are more liberal?

Sky divers are more liberal?

Hookers are more liberal?

That's all the OP states...someone did a survey and found that as a group, more liberals tended to own Macs. So the hell what?

Thanks for a good, concise reading of it, Mondo.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #334
335. People often react to statistical data that way.
Try telling people that.. oh, 60% of people in their demographic don't eat Sushi. You will be beseiged with "Oh yeah, well I am that demographic and I eat Sushi! I love it!". As if you'd said 100% did.

I guess people attach a lot of value issues to something that is value-free. Or hate to be told they can be measured. Or hate to be left out.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
332. I am posting in this thread.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
337. Intriguing, yet pointless
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
340. Even Bill Gates likes the Mac.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
341. You stink because you buy the product of corp X and not corp Y
Is that what substitutes for identity these days? Market demographics? Consumer mindsets? Whether we buy Mac or PC, shop at Whole Foods or Wal Mart, drink Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts? People are fighting over which segment they belong to, doing the companies' and the marketers' work for them by continuing to perpetuate the thoughts and images that create, feed from, and refine the neat and effective market segmentation that makes the consumerist economy go round.

Be who you are, not what you buy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #341
347. See, that's the trouble with this thread.
> You stink because you buy the product of corp X and not corp Y

See, that's the trouble with this thread. You're not responding
to what the original post actually said, you're responding to
what you want to construe it as saying.

There's no doubt whatsoever that, on average, the people who
use Macs are more liberal than the people who use PCs. But
what that means is that there are two overlapping probably-
normal distributions but the distribution of the Mac users
is shifted leftwareds, politically from the distribution of
PC users.

The original post says *NOTHING* about the political persuasions
of any given personal computer user.

But taking a crowd as a whole, you can learn something about
their political persuasions based on whether they use Macs or
PCs, whether they shop at the locally-owned food coop or Wal*Mart,
and so on.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #347
351. No doubt? I'd say there's plenty of doubt
I don't see anything in the article that indicates any real trend in PC use. There's no statistical analysis in the article at all, save a mention of the number of respondents to a survey. The suggestion that people using Apple are more liberal is like saying people who eat oatmeal are more compassionate. There's no connection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #347
356. You're right - I'm not responding to the OP.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 10:12 PM by UncleSepp
I'm responding to the thread spawned by the OP, and the arguments within it. I'm talking about the trouble with this thread.

You are construing *my* post to say what *you* think it says, and then responding to things I didn't write and don't believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
353. I favor Chinese astrology--
everyone born in 1942 is exactly the same. (Which explain why I am different than Bob Dylan or Joan Baez, who are about 1 year older).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DiamondJay Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
357. useless division...just what America needs
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Aug 13th 2022, 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC