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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:36 PM
Original message
The "Appeal" and Legacy of Ronald Reagan
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 07:26 PM by Time for change
Barack Obama recently stirred up a good deal of controversy by talking about Ronald Reagan in an apparently favorable light. Here are some excerpts:

I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.

This is not a one time incident. Obama also mentions Reagan in his book, “The Audacity of Hope”. After saying that he was disturbed by Reagan’s election in 1980 and his assaults on the poor, Obama continues:

I understood his appeal. That Reagan’s message found such a receptive audience spoke not only to his skills as a communicator; it also spoke to the failures of liberal government… For the fact was that government at every level had become too cavalier about spending taxpayer money… A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements over duties and responsibilities… Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, and loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of a common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster….

Some of Obama’s defenders make the case that quotes like these don’t necessarily imply admiration for Reagan or his policies. Rather, they claim, comments like these indicate admiration only for Reagan’s political or communication skills.

Many liberals, including me, aren’t convinced. Obama has said several things that many of us believe express contempt for liberals and their ideas – such as what I discuss in this post. Also, these Obama statements seem much like the kind of rhetorical device that George Bush frequently used to cause the American people believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9-11 attacks on our country. He never actually explicitly said that. But by repeatedly mentioning the two in the same speeches and even the same sentences he left no doubt as to what his point was. In the same way, these Obama words and speeches about Reagan appear to be meant to appeal to Reagan admirers while at the same time allowing just enough wiggle room that he can claim to fellow Democrats that he really doesn’t admire Reagan himself or his policies.

This is an important issue. If Obama has a fondness for Ronald Reagan or his policies I think that this is something that Democrats should give serious consideration before choosing him to be their nominee for president. So let’s take a closer look at how Obama’s comments about Reagan mesh with the reality of Reagan’s political career:


Reagan’s “appeal” to the American people

Some of Obama’s excerpts noted above speak of Reagan’s “appeal”, including “I understood his appeal” and “He just tapped into what people were already feeling”.

What did that “appeal” consist of? Paul Krugman discusses this in his book, “The Conscience of a Liberal”, in his discussion of how the Democratic Party lost the votes of Southern whites through appeals to racism. He notes Reagan’s bogus story introducing the term “welfare queen” and the kickoff of his 1980 presidential campaign emphasizing “states rights”. He concludes:

By 1980 Reagan could win Southern states with thinly disguised appeals to segregationist sentiment, while Democrats were ever more firmly linked to civil rights and affirmative action…

Peter Dreier discusses the details of Reagan’s bogus “welfare queen” story, which he characterizes as an assault on the poor. Whether this represented an assault of the poor or an appeal to racism hardly matters in my opinion. Either way, it’s contemptible and I have serious qualms about anyone who expresses admiration for that kind of “appeal”.

During his stump speeches while dutifully promising to roll back welfare, Reagan often told the story of a so-called “welfare queen” in Chicago who drove a Cadillac and had ripped off $150,000 from the government using 80 aliases, 30 addresses, a dozen social security cards and four fictional dead husbands. Journalists searched for this “welfare cheat” in the hopes of interviewing her and discovered that she didn’t exist. The imagery of “welfare cheats” that persists to this day helped lay the groundwork for the 1996 welfare reform law…

Reagan’s emphasis on “State’s Rights” to start off his 1980 campaign was doubtlessly an appeal to racism:

Why would the former governor of a western state choose a small southern town whose only claim to fame historically was the scandalous racially charged murder of three civil rights workers, as the place to deliver this message of state’s rights?

Anyone who’s studied the civil war for any length of time knows that the term “state’s rights” in the south is the euphemistic way that some southerners use to define the central cause of the civil war. Do a quick Google search on the term state’s rights and see what kind of sites you find. Confederate flags abound. These sites claim that the civil war was not about slavery, it was about state’s rights. The subtext: The civil war was about a state’s right to treat people as property if they want to….. about a state’s right to discriminate based on race…if that’s what they determine is in their best interest.


“Reagan put us on a fundamentally different path”

Obama is absolutely correct that Reagan put us on a fundamentally different path. Most importantly, he began the dismantling of FDR’s New Deal, which had served to lift tens of millions of Americans out of poverty and achieve levels of income equality never previously seen in our country.

This chart shows median family income levels, beginning in 1947, when accurate statistics on this issue first became available. With the top marginal tax rate approaching 90% at this time, median family income rose steadily (in 2005 dollars) from $22,499 in 1947 to more than double that, $47,173 in 1980. Then, for the next 25 years, except for some moderate growth during the Clinton years, there was almost no growth in median income at all, which rose only to $56,194 by 2005 (85% of that growth accounted for during the Clinton years). As Paul Krugman notes, this period coincides with “the greatest sustained economic boom in U.S. history”.

What did Reagan do to help end this boom? In a nutshell, virtually all of his economic policies were meant to favor the rich at the expense of the poor and the middle class.

First, let’s consider labor unions. Labor unions are a great means for reducing income inequality because they empower ordinary workers with the means of negotiating fair wages and benefits in relation to their more wealthy and powerful employers. They not only raise wages and benefits for their members, but do the same for non-members as well, since they provide all employers with incentives for offering fair wages, lest their members be tempted to join unions. Table 1 in this article shows that prior to FDR’s presidency the highest percentage of nonagricultural U.S. workers who were members of labor unions was about 10%. That percent rose precipitously during FDR’s presidency and remained at close to 30% for several decades thereafter. However, with the anti-labor policies of the Reagan administration, the percent of workers in unions declined precipitously. And today only 13% of American workers belong to labor unions – one of the lowest if not the lowest rates of union membership among the industrialized nations of the world.

Peter Dreier notes the numerous Reagan budget cuts affecting the poor and middle class:

Reagan eliminated general revenue sharing to cities, slashed funding for public service jobs and job training, almost dismantled federally funded legal services for the poor, cut the anti-poverty Community Development Block Grant program and reduced funds for public transit…These cutbacks had a disastrous effect on cities with high levels of poverty… The consequences were devastating to urban schools and libraries, municipal hospitals and clinics, and sanitation, police and fire departments – many of which had to shut their doors…The most dramatic cut in domestic spending during the Reagan years was for low-income housing subsidies. Reagan appointed a housing task force dominated by politically connected developers, landlords and bankers… For the next few years he sought to eliminate federal housing assistance to the poor altogether. The number of homeless people… by the late 1980s had swollen to 600,000 on any given night.


Disparaging of liberals as part and parcel of expressing admiration for Reagan

In the same breath as he expresses admiration for Ronald Reagan, Obama disparages liberals. And why not? After all, how can one plausibly express admiration for Ronald Reagan without disparaging liberals?

First consider Obama’s reference to “the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s”. What excesses is he talking about? Certainly he couldn’t be referring to the greatest equalization of income in American history, and what Paul Krugman describes as the greatest economic boom in U.S. history. Is he talking about the disturbances associated with the Civil Rights movement or the voting rights movement or protests against the Vietnam War? These are all causes about which liberals are justifiably proud – IMHO. Clearly Obama appeals to conservatives when he talks about “the excesses of the 60s and 70s.” I think that the rest of us deserve to know what he is referring to when he uses those words.

What about “Government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability…” and “Government at every level had become too cavalier about spending taxpayer money”? These are frequently espoused right wing talking points that stereotype the “tax and spend liberal”. So again, I ask Obama what liberal programs he thinks government was spending too much money on during this period of time. I think that Democrats who are considering voting for him to be the Democratic nominee for President have the right to know that. Furthermore, I find it most odd that he would criticize Democrats for spending too much money in the same paragraph where he praises Ronald Reagan, of all people. Consider this graph which shows the change in our national debt by year:



Note the two huge mountains of increasing national debt in this picture. One began with the Reagan administration and went on for the 12 years of Reagan and Bush I presidencies. Then following 8 years of precipitous decrease in the rate of debt accumulation, the onset of the Bush II presidency was marked by another, even more precipitous increase in debt accumulation than was the Reagan presidency. Shouldn’t this debunk the stereotype of the “tax and spend” liberal? And why is a Democratic candidate for President propagating this stereotype?

And what does Obama mean by “Reagan offered Americans a sense of a common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster…”? What common purpose is that? Is he talking about tax cuts for the rich and widening income disparity? Is he referring to the slashing of numerous social programs described above? Is he talking about the tremendous expansion of our national debt? Or maybe he’s referring to Reagan’s secret Contra War, in which he continued to fund right wing death squads despite the expressed prohibition of Congress.


How the other two leading Democratic candidates stand on this issue

Hillary Clinton hasn’t said as much about this as Obama, but she has posted on her website an article that notes that she considers Ronald Reagan to be one of her favorite American Presidents. There has been some disagreement over the accuracy that article. However, it seems obvious to me that it couldn’t be too far from the truth, since Senator Clinton put it on her website without any disclaimers regarding her quoted opinions.

I don’t think that anyone needed to hear John Edwards talk about this issue in order to know how he felt about it. John Edwards has made it abundantly clear that he is vehemently against everything that Ronald Reagan stood for. Here are his recent words on the subject:

I would never use Ronald Reagan as an example of change… You think about what Ronald Reagan did, to America, the American people, to the middle class, to working people. He was openly, openly intolerant of unions and the right to organize… I could promise you this… This president will never use Ronald Reagan as an example.

Amen.


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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for the info
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fantastic post!
Thank You!

America needs to move back to the left and the two mentioned above won't be going that way! :grr:

:kick: & Recommended
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Thank you
Yes, I don't see either Clinton or Obama moving us back towards the left.

If Iowans knew that what Obama meant by "change" was Ronald Reagan, maybe they'd like to have their votes back.
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ngant17 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Raygun actually signed onto the MLK holiday
so that is about as much credit as I could ever give him.

He did so reluctantly, and used the opportunity to publically accuse MLK of being a communist. Neverless the signed the bill into law, but it was only due to the activism of many progressives, civil rights leaders, ect.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Same credit as Clinton gave Lyndon Johnson
for implementing MLK dream.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Was Obama in one of his Ivy League Schools during Reagan's administration?
It would have been hard not to drink the Kool Aid. I was in medical school and then residency, both of which were associated with public (charity) hospitals. I saw nothing but the human misery and grief that came from the lack of federal government interest in doing anything about AIDS. I saw the poverty that lead to illness that should have been preventable. I saw premature babies. I saw people drive from hundreds of miles away with diabetic foot ulcers that they had nursed themselves for months. I saw people with tumors that they had watched grow for months. I saw the homeless come in, get treated and go back to the streets. I saw women with three or four kids they could not support have another child they did not want because it was absolutely impossible for them to scrape up the money for an abortion.

Maybe that is why I remember the Reagan years as really dark, grim, nasty times.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I don't know where Obama was during the Reagan administration, and I don't think it matters
with respect to what I say in my OP.

Regardless of what he was doing then, as a Democratic candidate for President now, if he chooses to speak publicly about him he ought to know enough about him to know that he doesn't deserve praise for the way he "appealed" to people or anything else.

He may not have had your experiences, but he knows how to read.
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grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fantastic post K&R
And you managed to express it without any of the curse words I've been screaming since I heard Obama's praise of the war criminal raygun
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Thank you
I've used my share of curse words against Reagan.

Not Obama though. I just don't know what to think of him. He expresses a lot of good ideas in the same book where he makes all those sickening, inappropriate criticisms of Democrats, especially liberal/progressive Democrats. :shrug:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama was 19 when he had to choose between Reagan and Carter
in his very first vote for a President. What excesses was he tired of as a 19 year old Columbia student? Did he really vote for actor Ronald Reagan instead of the most morally centered president of the twentieth century?
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Perhaps of all the excesses of protesters, unionists, feminists and civil rights activists demanding
their rights.

:sarcasm:
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. I first voted in 1976 at college and became a feminist
and I remember how the word feminist became a dirty word under Reagan. I was a Rape Victim Advocate and in the seventies there was a political meaning to it. In the eighties we weren't supposed to talk about it. Horse shit. Obama can stuff it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. He doesn't say
My opinion is that he speaks in a kind of code, so that the right will take it one way and the left will take it another way. That's why there's so much disagreement on DU as to what he's really saying.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. I disagree with Krugman about Reagan winning the south
Checking Dave Leip's Atlas
http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/index.html

Historically I find, for example. In 1964, LBJ went all the way over "in his guts ..." winning the popular vote by 61% to 38%. But five states where he didn't win - LA, MS, AL, GA, and SC. In fact, Goldwater got 87% of the vote in Mississippi. In 1968, Democrats lost all those states to George Wallace. Sometimes HHH was even 3rd.

1976 was an abberation, because a southerner was leading the Democratic ticket. So did Reagan need racism to beat the same southerner in 1980? LA for example went to Carter 52-46 over Ford, but went 51-46 for Reagan, a mere 5.5% shift. And Mississippi went 50-48 for Carter over Ford and 49-48 for Reagan, a mere 1.5% shift. Still, you could compare NY, PA, WI, and SD and find a similar shift from Carter to Reagan between 1976 and 1980. SD is a special case, but was Reagan's gain/Carter's loss due to racism in PA, WI, and NY? Or was it due to the media relentlessly bashing him for 4 years? Not to mention Reagan's appeal to upper middle class greed. Vote for Reagan, get cash back.

At the risk of flames, I also understand some of Reagan's appeal. Because I am lower working class. Or I was, and knew many people on disability, SSI, food stamps, etc. Even post-Reagan it kinda seems like they have it better than workers. They make almost the same amount of money, withoug having to work for it, and many times they have created their own problems. Thus, instead of working, I can party in my twenties and develop an alcohol problem that insures me a disability check the rest of my life and makes me better off than somebody who kept their nose to the grindstone.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. The Carter elections
When Carter ran against Ford, most of his strength was in the South. Of 15 southern and border states, he won 14 of them. He won only 9 states in the rest of the country. When Reagan ran against him 4 years later he made astonishing inroads into the South, the very strength of Carter territory, by winning 12 of the 14 states that Carter had won, failing only in Carter's home state and Maryland. He also won 5 of the 9 other states that Carter won. But who's to say that racism wasn't a good part of his appeal in those states as well. I'm not saying that racism was his only appeal, but he certainly did purposely and successfully appeal to it. He also appealed to militant nationalists and people who had contempt for the poor, and I don't doubt that racism was a good part of those appeals as well.

With regard to the other stuff you bring up, do you think that we shouldn't have a social safety net in this country, or that our safety net is too big? We have 37 million people living in poverty in our country today (including many working people) -- one of the highest if not the highest rate of poverty in the developed world. If Obama thinks that we do too much for those people, I think he should come out and say it, rather than speak in code through his praises of Reagan.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. that's the way the media portrayed him, but not the reality
I was surprised though when Kennedy lost to him in the primaries.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hillary loves her some reagan too
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I didn't forget Hillary
From the OP:

"Hillary Clinton hasn’t said as much about this as Obama, but she has posted on her website an article that notes that she considers Ronald Reagan to be one of her favorite American Presidents. There has been some disagreement over the accuracy that article. However, it seems obvious to me that it couldn’t be too far from the truth, since Senator Clinton put it on her website without any disclaimers regarding her quoted opinions."
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for this post!
I hope everyone reads it!

K&R!
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Interesting analysis
I, too, caught the "excess of the 60s" comment that could come straight from the editorial board of the Wall St. Journal.

And while I am willing to accept that he just analyzed the appeal of Reagan to many voters, I cannot accept his "excess of the 60s."

But, of course, he expressed his disdain for this decade earlier when he referred to the baby boomers including the Clintons.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Not only "the excesses of the 60s" comment
and the comment about Reagan speaking to "the failures of liberal government". But also

"Government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability…”
AND
“Reagan offered Americans a sense of a common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster…”

And then there's a whole bunch more disparaging of liberals from these passages from Obama's book:

I also think my party can be smug, detached, and dogmatic at times. I believe in the free market, competition, and entrepreneurship, and think no small number of government programs don’t work as advertised...

We Democrats are just, well, confused. There are those who still champion the old-time religion, defending every New Deal and Great Society program from Republican encroachment, achieving ratings of 100 percent from the liberal interest groups …

Mainly, though, the Democratic Party has become the party of reaction. In reaction to a war that is ill conceived, we appear suspicious of all military action. In reaction to those who proclaim the market can cure all ills, we resist efforts to use market principles to tackle pressing problems… We lose elections and hope for the courts to foil Republican plans. We lose the courts and wait for a White House scandal. And increasingly we feel the need to match the Republican right in stridency and hardball tactics.…

Yet our debate on education seems stuck between those who want to dismantle the public school system and those who would defend an indefensible status quo, between those who say money makes no difference in education and those who want more money without any demonstration that it will be put to good use…

We know that the battle against international terrorism is at once an armed struggle and a contest of ideas… But follow most of our foreign policy debates, and you might believe that we have only two choices – belligerence or isolationism….

Yet publicly it’s difficult to find much soul-searching or introspection on either side of the divide, or even the slightest admission of responsibility for the gridlock…

I began silently registering … the point at which the denunciations of capitalism or American imperialism came too easily, and the freedom from the constraints of monogamy or religion was proclaimed without fully understanding the value of such constraints, and the role of victim was too readily embraced as a means of shedding responsibility, or asserting entitlement… All of which may explain why, as disturbed as I might have been by Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980…and his gratuitous assaults on the poor, I understood his appeal. That Reagan’s message found such a receptive audience spoke not only to his skills as a communicator; it also spoke to the failures of liberal government… For the fact was that government at every level had become too cavalier about spending taxpayer money… A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements over duties and responsibilities… Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, and loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of a common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster….

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. It is clear that, like Reagan, Obama is getting to be the Teflon candidate
and, if elected, the Teflon president.

It is clear from posts on DU and from his expected win in SC, that for many he is the new salvation just by being who he is. A different kind of black person who obviously does not carry the memories of family members, friends and neighbors fighting for civil rights. But someone who talks in entirely different terms than previous black leaders. People like his youth, his charisma, his eloquence, his "freshness." They like what they see and they really do not care for substance.

And when his opponents try to point out inconsistency or lack of substance, they are viewed as "negative" attack, almost as a lynch mob (here, I said this).

Isn't it amazing that we tiptoe around any flaws in his candidacy so as not to appear racist?

If he is the candidate, does anyone think that his use of drugs is not going to be an issue?

(My spouse really laughed about Obama's comment of the "excess of the 60s." "He said that after being a dope head?" My spouse asked incredulously.)

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
17. Obama's Dubious Praise for Reagan By Robert Parry
we must never forget the horror reagan caused in central america....



http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/011908.html


Even more troubling, Reagan aided and abetted mass slaughters in Central America, including acts of genocide in Guatemala, but neither he nor any of his senior advisers faced any meaningful accountability for their actions.

<snip>

But the story of the Reagan-backed genocide of the Mayan Indians was quickly forgotten, as Republicans and the Washington press corps wrapped Reagan's legacy in a fuzzy blanket of heroic mythology.

Now, as Sen. Obama seeks to portray himself as a new kind of post-partisan politician, he seems to be buying into those old comfortable happy thoughts about Ronald Reagan. To the delight of right-wingers like Patrick Buchanan, Obama is paying deference to their hero.

While that might help Obama politically with some independents and Republicans, it doesn’t exactly define him as a new kind of politician. For a generation now, Democrats – eager to give themselves some cover on the right – have slipped praise for Reagan into their speeches.

If Obama really wanted to be a different kind of politician, he might instead stand for the truth, even when it is politically difficult and unpopular. He might acknowledge that while Reagan did put the United States on a “fundamentally different path,” it was not a path that led to either accountability or to justice.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. That's an excellent article by Robert Parry
One more reason why Obama's praise of Reagan is very difficult for many of us to swallow.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. yes it is
difficult to swllow? I almost vomited.

K&R for your excellent research!
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. A hearty K & R!!
just hearing the name Rayguns makes me puke. Only Chimpster can compare in terms of the evil inflicted on our society.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. Iran/Contra...Reagan sold arms to IRAN ILLEGALLY
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 11:13 AM by spanone
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kicked and recommended!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kick
Anyone who espouses respect or admiration for one of the most vile rightwing assholes ever is either politically ignorant, or a fucking fool.

Obama isn't ignorant.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thank you for this TFC -- Obama is a Reagan myth enabler and could not be more WRONG
"I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."

He "thinks they felt....." The election of Reagan is a testament to the power of the media (even then) to influence an apathetic public to stay home cuz his election was "inevitable" so the "landslide" of 51% of the the 37% who bothered to vote....

The people allowed themselves to be baldfacedly lied to by an obvious phony -- Obama massaging the myth of Reagan the "Great Communicator" is offensive.

Obama's approach already was reminding me of the sloganeering and "Morning In America" bogus optimism of Reagan BEFORE these comments.

Your post is very important for people to understand -- those too young to know any better and those who fell for the BS at the time. The fact that Obama wants to not only continue Reaganism and return to phony, oblivious optimism but to OBLITERATE and OBFUSCATE vital recent history, makes him dangerous.

Too bad this post only gets a dozen or so K&Rs and some simplistic rant about candidates gets over 150. That rant is valid but hollow. Your magnificent (as usual) OP gives people some REAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH.


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Thank you very much omega
I get upset whenever I hear anyone gushing over the "optimism" that Reagan brought our country. A lot of good that optimism brought the American people. Reagan used the political capital from that optimism to run up a monumental national debt, starve social programs of funds, greatly widen the wealth gap in our country, and drive hundreds of thousands into homelessness, all so that he could give tax breaks to his wealthy cronies.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. That mindless lockstep "optimism" paved the way for the slide into fascism........
paved the way for the Big Lie of the Bush administration/s
coupled as the "optimism" was with blatant lies and media-enabled propaganda.

Amazing that people think 28 years of Reaganism -- and media consolidation -- and manipulated elections -- and devastated civil rights -- can be undone, let alone repaired by "optimism."

The only one of the "top three" who dares question the status quo of corporate government is Edwards. Which is what that Greatest Page rant was on about.

Obama is more of the same. Mindless platitudes and a disconnect from history ARE Reaganism.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. If you're not careful
you might learn something useful reading DU.

Stick around.

I was in college in 1980 and I am well aware of the "legacy" of RR. It's not a thing to be proud of, at all, for all the reasons mentioned in the OP and then some.

And I'm a southerner. I know all about doublspeak designed to say one thing out in public and mean something else entirely to those who want their biases and prejudices soothed and comforted.

So, stick to that reagan fantasy if you wish, just don't expect anyone else, especially at DU, to believe it too.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Mondale won 40.5% of the vote in 1984
The interest rates of the late 1970s early 1980s were set by Paul Volcker at the FED as he attempted to "wring inflation out of the economy". Reagan stopped inflation on the backs of working people, by refusing to give them raises. Government workers, that is, did not get raises for about two or three years from 1982-1985. That stopped the "wage-price spiral". And, of course, the share of income going to the bottom 40% of America fell from 14.4% in 1981 to 13.3% in 1989 while the share of income going to the top 5% rose from 15.6% to 18.9% and the share going to the top 20% rose from 43.8% to 46.8%.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. sorry i missed that insanity -- it was deleted
:evilgrin:
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Mutineer Donating Member (659 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. My what a well researched post.
complete with a chart. Yeah, just your typical, normal, average DU posting.
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. Kick!!!
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
38. Now THAT is a CLEAR DISTINCTION that matters between EDWARDS and OBAMA & HILLARY...
How can liberal Democrats not see the great divide that exists between the top 3 Democratic Candidates?

ANYONE who does not recognize the damage inflicted on our nation, especially the middle class and poor, by Reagan DOES NOT DESERVE TO CARRY THE BANNER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINEE.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
40. Wish I could K&R, but time has expired
This is exactly the problem with RR.

Perfectly stated and thought-out article TFC.
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