Why are Dems "bailing out" chimp in an election year?

[senseandsensibility]

Why are they falling all over themselves to support this "stimulus package" idea for the economy that at best will "improve" the economy for just a few short months until the election?

Now I know many of you will say that this is no time for petty politics and real people are hurting. I couldn't agree more. But the way to help them is to get a Dem in the White House, one that will be willing and able to improve the economy for the long term.

If this "stimulus package" does any good at all, it will be extremely short term, and may convince voters that the economy is not so bad right in time for the election! It might be just enough to elect a repug.

But we all know that it will do no long term good, and if it causes us to suffer another repug presidency we are going to pay for this big time.

I just wish our side wasn't so gullible and timid. They should come up with their own plan, label it clearly a DEM plan, and include ideas that will actually help those that are hurting, now and in the long term.

[Beelzebud]

1. They've rolled over on everything else, why not this too?

[senseandsensibility]

2. Unfortunately

I see your point all too well.:-(

[Enrique]

22. Bush rolled this time

his tax cut extensions are off the table.

[KansDem]

23. Agreed...

Real people are hurting. Maybe this "rebate" will help, but I think everyone knows Bush is a tool and and fool. I think the Dems know, along with the rest of the country, that this is for the real people this time...

[bobbolink]

38. But, the poorest of us "REAL PEOPLE" won't get any rebates!

You see, this is for the muddleclass, who could aruguabley said to NEED to "hurt" in order to see the light.

The poorest of us will, again, be passed by.

Is that justice?

[polichick]

3. Same reason Dems are jumping on the bandwagon of a candidate who...

...worships at the same Reagan altar Republicans worship at ~ they're like abused spouses always going back for more.

[msongs]

4. reid/pelosi are democrats? btw you get no rebate if your income is low and you dont

actually pay any tax due to your low income.

Msongs

[Enrique]

26. that's not true

that is still to be decided. You're stating the outcome before it happens.

[alfredo]

29. You know if McConnell doesn't block any stimulus that helps the poor,

bush will veto it. We want McConnell to be himself so we can use it against him this fall. We want a package that helps those who have to use most of their income just to keep a roof over their heads, and we know that McConnell and bush will fight it.

A dollar spent by a poor man is as good as a dollar spent by a rich man.

The poor may use it to pay off debts and the reps don't want that because debt is a tool of control.

[demnan]

5. It is nearly impossible

for Democrats to work in their best interest or the interests of the country. They are only thinking of their own elections and their corporate masters, just like the Republicans.

[Fresh_Start]

6. because 40 million ppl dont have enough money to feed their families

and have for housing and utilities

[senseandsensibility]

8. So you're all for a short term fix?

One that may convince enough people to vote repug in November? People are suffering now, but this is NOTHING compared to how they will suffer if we are saddled with another repug President. And yes, I am aware that people are hurting, as my OP makes clear.

[Fresh_Start]

15. I in favor of short, medium and long term fixes combined NT

NT

[senseandsensibility]

25. Then perhaps you will agree with the idea I proposed in my OP

NT

[Fresh_Start]

37. I think the dems are unable to agree....

and they're on the defensive yet again v the administration
I think election year may make it more difficult due to some level of fracture between party members....

and the last thing the dems want in an election year is deny the voters some relief.

Personally I think we should try relief (lots and lots of relief) at the bottom only.
The bottom income tier spend 100% of their money.
It will immediately hit the economy.

While I won't refuse the money if they are handing it out...I'm unlikely to spend it all.
When Bush rebated $600 per family early in his term, I donated to the dems all of it since I thought it was a stupid action on the part of the government to give money that indiscriminately.

This time I'm probably bank it because I'm way more uncomfortable with the economic future than I was then.

[Fresh_Start]

18. triangulate much?

you seem a natural

[genie_weenie]

7. Dare I say, two sides of the same coin?

[NNN0LHI]

9. Dems should be proposing 10 times whatever Bush is offering for everyone

They are going to steal it from us anyway. Let them print some more money. Thats what they have been doing all along.

Dems should jump on this one. If there is enough to buy off every Iraqi with cash payments let them buy us off. But not cheap.

Don

[Fresh_Start]

17. no, 20 times for the lowest 25% income and 0% for top 10% income

and something else in the middel

[napi21]

10. I don't see it that way at all. The Dems wanted to do something to help people out,

and ironically Chimpy agreed with them. I don't see the any different than when the Dems wanted to give a version of anmesty to the illegals who are already here, and Chimpy agreed with THAT too! I DOUBT the real Pubs like EITHER plan!

[GodlessBiker]

11. So, we should go one step back to go two steps forward?

You don't think voters will realize the Dems are making them suffer in order to win an election?

[iamjoy]

12. It's A No Win Situation

If they don't vote for the bail out, it becomes
"Democrats had a chance to help people, and they didn't." Furthermore, they will get all the blame for the worsening economy because they didn't help when they could have. They will get accused of playing politics while people suffered.

If they vote for the bail out and it works then people will be feeling better about the economy and are more likely to vote Republican. If the economy doesn't turn around, then the Democrats share the blame (just like with the way they spin it with the mess in Iraq).

OF course long term electing REAL Democrats would be better than electing Republicans, but people can't see past the present and immediate future. To be fair, if you were wondering how you were going to pay for your next meal, it would be really hard to "pass up" the stimulus package because you know it will be better to help a Democrat get elected. Some people can't wait a whole year for help.

The best solution is for Obama and Clinton to vote for this package and then use their campaign as a way to make a statement about the failed economic policies of Republicans. The media will give them that opportunity because they are running for President, and they need to take advantage of it.

[keep_it_real]

13. Has anyone ever said Where the Money is going to come from?

What trust fund are they going to raid? Maybe Social Security?

[Enrique]

20. yes they have

it's going to be added to the national debt. No one is hiding that.

[mmonk]

14. The so called stimulus package is the same economics

we've been under for seven years. How is the economy going to get better?

[Enrique]

21. how so?

which other Bush programs compare to the proposed stimulus plans?

[mmonk]

30. Lower corporate taxes, continued spending to the MIC,

tax rebates (still remember mine), still deficit spending, artificially low held interest rates, worthless dollar. The extension of unemployment insurance is good, but the overall strategy isn't going to help substantially and is still primarily ideological (Friedman school) without addressing economic fundamentals. In reality, they can't address it fundamentally because most recessions have the housing market to help smooth things out.

[warren pease]

16. It's the only thing they do well these days. n/t

[spanone]

19. I've heard almost nothing about juniors FAILED POLICIES that have led us where we are

[senseandsensibility]

24. Exactly. Our side doesn't even seem to be able to make

"political hay" out of this. :-( I am all for using this politcally to help people in the long term. If we keep rolling over and not spoeaking up we will deserve to lose.

[Enrique]

27. Bush rolled this time

his tax cut extensions are off the table.

[spanone]

31. that was a given in his lame duck status

[Enrique]

33. well, the Congressional republicans still have the extension on the table

The lame duck thing doesn't apply to them.

[dbonds]

28. This stimulas package will not help the people.

It is a just a little money for each person. But the hope is that everyone will spend that money and therefor put a lot of money into circulation which helps businesses. The nature of this recession is based on housing market crash, high oil prices, and under-employed people. It won't do any good to stimulate commerce.

[The Stranger]

32. Ralph Nader was right.

Wall Street is laughing at this "stimulus package," and crying at the same time. Anything he touches turns to shit, and the traders realize this all too well.

[Blue Congress]

34. They need to be replaced?

Why did the Dem Congress approve the surge 2006 after we had elected them to stop the war?
Why did Conyers drop Impeachment shortly after the Dem win in Congress?




http://peacecandidates.com/

[OzarkDem]

35. This is the reason I don't support Clinton or Obama

they may talk a good game, but, as we've seen from their records they comply with the "group-think" of Dems in Congress. There are no rational reasons why Dems shouldn't counteroffer with a better stimulus package.

Their failure to do so, and to address the REAL source of our economic problems - the Iraq War - demonstrates they don't plan to change the status quo. They don't plan to advance policies that will get the country on the right track.

Why do our Dems in Congress fail to lead? Why have they given up on trying? I'm sick of the excuses and sick of trying to figure it out. I want them all out, and the first place to start is by not electing one of them President.

[sandnsea]

39. Bush's is the counteroffer

to Clinton and Obamas stimulus package. I don't know whether Edwards put one out or not.

They all have said the Iraq War is draining the economy.

Disagree with all the proposals if you want, but at least base it on fact.

[radfringe]

36. because they are afraid of being accused of not supporting the people

or some such pile of bushit...
dems in congress don't have the votes, balls or spine to standup for anything - except maybe apologize

[brazos121200]

40. You know that if a Democrat was in office and the country

was going into a recession the repubs would do everything they could to block any stimulus package designed to help the Democratic candidate in the coming election. The Democrats should use every tactic they can to stop any such stimulus package without harming their image. I would paraphrase Winston Churchill and say that for the coming year the American people have nothing to look forward to but blood, sweat, toil and tears. This would demonatrate to the voters just what a disaster Bush's insane economic policies have been. The time for the stimulus package will be in January of 2009 when the new Democratic President is sworn in.

[spanone]

41. a swift kick

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[nonconformist]

42. Because it will be politically popular, that's why.

People will be happy when they get a check. Both sides of the aisle want to take credit for it.

That's it, in a nutshell.

[spanone]

43. re-kick

[Solly Mack]

44. to boost the poll numbers of Congress

[spanone]

45. wanna bet the chimp directs MOST of the tax breaks to business?

i think the democrats should allow the bu$h* economic policies to run their pathetic course

[Solly Mack]

47. Nah..I don't wanna take that bet :)

[spanone]

49. and he'll do it with the exuberant help of the democratic congress...imo

[ecstatic]

46. They're obviously smug and overconfident

A really bad strategy, but I can't invest too much more emotion in caring.

[LeftCoast]

48. Stop slagging Dems. Just a little bit of research yielded the following article:

Battle over who gets the tax-rebate checks
Democrats want low-income Americans included in economic stimulus package
Edmund L. Andrews, New York Times
Sunday, January 20, 2008

As President Bush and congressional Democrats begin negotiations on a package of measures to stimulate the economy, the big fight will be over whether to put extra money in the hands of tens of millions of low-income families who paid little or no income tax last year.

Nearly 40 percent of Americans owed no federal income tax last year, though even low-income workers paid taxes for Social Security and Medicare. While Bush has refused to disclose specifics of his $145 billion plan, administration officials and Republican lawmakers favor a proposal that would offer rebates of up to $800 for individuals and $1,600 for families - but only if they paid that much in taxes last year.

For practical purposes, analysts estimate, a family of four with an income of $24,000 would receive no government payments at all, and families with incomes below $40,000 would at most receive partial rebates. But a household with an income of $100,000 or more could get back $1,600.

Administration officials and Republican lawmakers say it only makes sense to give tax rebates to people who actually paid taxes. But Democrats are gearing up to fight that approach, arguing that a stimulus plan should put money in the hands of low-income people, both as a matter of fairness and because people who are struggling to make ends meet are most likely to spend any government payments quickly. For the purpose of jump-starting the economy, economists want people to spend extra money as quickly as possible.

*snip*

Read the rest here if you'd like to see what Dems are actually doing For the rest of you guys who just want to continue to mindlessly hate my party, just ignore this.

[terrya]

52. Don't confuse some of the people around here with the facts, LeftCoast.

They won't know how to deal with them. Instead of mindlessly attacking the Democratic Party, as you said.

[LeftCoast]

53. This kind of post makes me so mad I could spit nails

To see all these DUers just going along with the criticism without even bothering to think or do research. It just blows me away.

[terrya]

54. It's reflexive.

It's just automatic. Some people here have permanently equated Pelosi and Reid with the Third Reich or some such shit, and they automatically, reflexively will believe that anything they do is traitorious. It's...bizarre. It's still startling to me to read this kind of thing.

[senseandsensibility]

55. I respect you LeftCoast

and thanks for the links. If I am ill informed, I apologize. I have been working very hard this week, and I based my post of what I've heard on the news, (Air America Radio, Olbermann, Hardball, CNN). I have not heard any of the facts mentioned there in any of these places and when I come home late in the evening I do not have time to do a lot of research because I am bringing piles of paperwork with me.

However, that being said, the Dems need to publicize their views better. I am better informed than the average voter and go out of my way to listen to news programming so matter how hectic my schedule. If I was not aware of their opposing views, ninety nine percent of the public isn't either. When Dems go on shows like Thom Hartmann or MSNBC or whatever, they need to differentiate themselves from Chimp in no uncertain terms.

[LeftCoast]

56. Sorry for biting your head off

I should add that I don't think the Dems should go without criticism. I wish the Dems could publicize their views better as well. They have a real challenge in getting their message out past the MSM though.

I used to really rely on DU for a lot of my MSM fact-checking. It's not so good for that anymore and I miss that aspect of the 'old days'.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. It's a bipartisan CYA attempt to pretend their doing something.

[Zynx]

51. If we don't help out with a stimulus package and the Republicans are proposing one we will be blamed

That could lead to disaster.