i am so proud of my state. there's no doubt in my mind that we will move to marriage for all

[cali]

It won't be this year but it will happen within the next couple of years. 40% of Vermonters favor marriage for all. 37% favor civil unions. I was in the thick of it in 1999. I'll never forget both the highs and the lows of that time.

Vt. Gay Marriage Debate Tamer This Time
By JOHN CURRAN – 13 hours ago

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — For many who lived through Vermont's not-so-civil debate over civil unions, the memories remain painfully fresh: hate mail, threatening telephone messages, tense public meetings.

This time around, as the state weighs whether to legalize gay marriage, the debate is noticeably tamer with little of the vitriol and recrimination that surrounded its groundbreaking 2000 decision to legally recognize gay and lesbian couples.

It's early: Lawmakers say they're unlikely to push for a vote this year on pending legislation that would legalize gay marriage, although a state-appointed panel has been gathering public input and is due to report to the Legislature in April.

Although that absence of an impending vote may be what's keeping things civil, people involved in the debate have noticed a change in atmosphere.

"It's a very different tenor," said Beth Robinson, chairwoman of the Vermont Freedom to Marry Task Force, which supports gay marriage. "People have had an opportunity to come to terms. Vermonters have had eight years to see the two guys next door, or the two women down the street who have a legally recognized relationship under the civil unions law."

<snip>

"It was a time unlike anything since the Vietnam War era, when you had the sense that the whole world around you was divided," said David Moats, author of "Civil Wars: A Battle For Gay Marriage," a book about Vermont's civil unions controversy.

An Associated Press exit poll of voters that November found the state split 49 percent to 49 percent on whether civil unions were a good idea. Four years later, the poll asked voters to choose between three options for recognition of same-sex unions: full marriage, civil unions or no recognition. Forty percent said they supported marriage, 37 percent civil unions and 21 percent neither.

<snip>

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hesb4aHbI1j_7LkIVzStq6u_hqbgD8U56N1G0

[Skittles]

1. proud of your state too, Cali

I live in Texas :(

[Breeze54]

2. Yeah, Vermont will catch up to Liberal Massachusetts soon, I hope!

;)

[cali]

3. I hope so too, but don't forget we did the grunt work here

that paved the way. I can't tell you what it was like here in 1999. People forget what a huge deal it was. Front page news all over the country and beyond.

[Breeze54]

4. You did the grunt work for Massachusetts?

:rofl:

Yeah because MA doesn't have gay people that want to get married. :eyes:

[cali]

5. Yes, Vermont paved the way.

MA followed. And of course, Vermont is more liberal than MA in dozens of ways, from IRV in Burlington to environmental issues and having a Socialist Senator- but you guys aren't doing too badly.

:hi:

[Breeze54]

6. We are the bluest state in the Union, Cali!

:rofl:

But that's OK, Cali. Vermont is a pretty state anyway.

I'm pretty sure gay marriage was a collective decision across the USA and they decided to go for
it first in MA because they had a better chance on winning it here. Looks like they were right.

[cali]

7. Prove it,.

Got any stats at all that prove that MA is bluer than VT? No? Didn't think so. Could Bernie be elected in MA? Nope. Does MA have a viable third party like VT with members in the State House?

MA is almost as blue as VT- but no where close to as green.

You do have nice beaches though and Nantucket and Cape Cod are two of my favorite places. Spent all my childhood summers in Wellfleet. On the other hand, your Berkshires don't compare to our Greens.

:hi:

[Breeze54]

8. Welcome to the Commonwealth of Mass., the most liberal state in the union. - MOST LIBERAL PLACES

Welcome to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the most liberal state in the union.
All eleven U.S. Congressman in Massachusetts are Democrats.
The state is the bluest of all blue states.



-------------------------

MOST LIBERAL PLACES

http://www.epodunk.com/top10/liberal/index.html

LIBERAL COMMUNITIES
BIG CITIES
(100,000 or more)
Boston, MA
Cambridge, MA
Berkeley, CA
Oakland, CA
San Francisco, CA
New Haven, CT
Providence, RI
New York, NY
Baltimore, MD
Seattle, WA

MEDIUM CITIES
(25,000-99,999)
Northampton, MA
Somerville, MA
Arlington, MA
Watertown, MA
Santa Cruz, CA
Alameda, CA
Ithaca, NY
Portland, ME
East Palo Alto, CA
Chelsea, MA

SMALL CITIES
(Under 25,000)
Provincetown, MA
Mount Rainier, MD
Albany, CA
Fairfax, CA
Garrett Park, MD
Orono, ME
Takoma Park, MD
Guerneville, CA
Bar Harbor, ME
Johnson, VT

If Democrats controlling 85% of the legislature, all statewide positions, all 10 Congressional
seats, and both Senate positions isn't deep, deep, blue -- well, then I don't know what is!

;)

[cali]

10. You're bigger no doubt about it.

Just not quite as deep a shade of blue. Which state senate voted to impeach bushco? Hint: It wasn't in Boston.

:hi:

[Breeze54]

11. The whole state of MA voted Democrat last election, Cali.

:hi:

[cali]

13. You guys had Romney for 4 years.

At least our repuke governor isn't some right wing nut case.

And Vermont has the highest percentage of those who want impeachment.

Not to mention that we don't have hideous bill boards littering the landscape.

:hi:

[Breeze54]

15. We have a Democratic governor.

;)

[Ian David]

9. I'm on your side on this, but actually I hope Vermont does NOT legalize gay marriage.

Here's why:

1) If that happens, the anti-gay bigots will hold it up as a "warning" that Civil Unions leads eventually to their fundie-nightmare of "Gay Marriage."
2) They will use the story of Vermont as a tool to whip the anti-gay crowd into a frenzy as other states strive to legalize Civil Unions.

What I would like to see is states with no recognition for gay couples either creating Civil Unions of going straight to Marriage Equality.

What I do not want to see is states moving from Civil Unions to Marriage Equality. Why?

Because eventually, people will see:

1) Neither Marriage Equality nor Civil Unions cause the streets to run with magma and Nazis to roam the streets riding dinosaurs.
2) Civil Unions are inherently un-equal to full marriage rights and are therefore un-just and unfair.

And from this will eventually follow a FEDERAL law or Constitutional Amendment to create either a FEDERAL Civil Union or to establish FEDERAL Marriage Equality.

I know it would probably unfair and selfish to ask people in Vermont to forgo expanding their Civil Rights for the sake of a larger strategy that may or may not work. But really, how many Civil Rights do you really need when you spend half the year snowed-in anyway?

[cali]

12. hrrumph. We do NOT spend half the year snowed in..

Only about 4 and a half months.

I do see your point but I don't agree with it. I don't see that VT moving from civil unions to marriage will negatively impact the fight for full federal equality, and Vermonters gay and straight are ready for this. The change in 8 years has been amazing.

[Ian David]

14. If we want to move from Civil Unions to Marriage Equality...

... we need gay "martyrs" to hold up as example of why Civil Unions are insufficient.

The more stories we have like the UPS guy in New Jersey and such, the better the odds of moving to a federal Marriage Equality sooner rather than later.

In other words, I think you guys in Vermont need to "take one for the team."

Yes, I know. It's selfish and probably unfair and too much to ask.

But in any case, you guys still have my support if you want to give it a go.

I wouldn't stand in the way of expanding someone's Civil Rights, even if I think it's a bad strategic move in the Big Picture.