So some of you REALLY don't think electing Barack Obama would change anything?

[Bicoastal]

(A reponse to this thread by leftofthedial that turned into its own rebuttal post)

You don't think that, for the first time, an awful lot of people in this country who feel underrepresented by their own government would suddenly go "Wait a second. You mean all that stuff about my children being able to become president someday isn't just empty rhetoric anymore?"

Let's forget about policy for a second--policy is important, but it can and always will be altered to best serve a changing country's needs. Let's talk about something that can't easily so easily changed--perspective. America needs good PR--specifically, a change in national and international perception--VERY badly right now. We need to prove to the world that we're capable of exceeding expectations and electing a leader who represents what the US today, with its never-higher concentration of minorities and immigrant families, actually looks like, physically and spiritually. And we need to prove our ourselves that the unwritten rule is now mere fiction--that it truly DOESN'T matter who your parents are.

It's what the US, the country that gave us the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, should be--and it's exactly what we haven't been for the last 8 years. Everything about Bush/Cheney's reign of power, from Florida stolen in 2000, to Abu-Ghraib, to Gitmo, to Katrina, to the Immigration scare of recent times, says one thing to Americans and the world: you won't do well by this country if one of the few things in this world you're personally incapable of altering, your bloodline ancestry, is of the wrong mixture. Everyone KNOWS that a washout and addict like George W. Bush would never have amounted to anything had it not been for his wealthy, powerful, socially mobile family, and this realization has haunted us since 2000: some of us will forever be on the right track, and some of us will forever be on the wrong track. That's inarguably America at it's worst, and deep down, most Americans know it..

And yes, to me, the election of Barack Obama, son of a Nigerian and a Kansan, product of a single-parent household, ambitious student of multiple universities and disciplines, tireless worker for the community, and now pride of thousands (millions?) of people whose backgrounds are NOTHING like his, represents what the country can be capable of when it's at its finest. I'll support him until the end.

[aquart]

1. George Bush and the Republicans govern by PR.

So, no, I don't see a change.

[Bicoastal]

2. So you're saying that America's image DOESN'T need to be fixed?

[McCamy Taylor]

3. Obama is a millionaire, with a Harvard law degree, attended a 15k/yr private school

and owns a house worth over a million bucks. His father was from Kenya, but his family had the money to send him to the United States to be educated. The people I have known from Africa who have come here to go to college have seldom been poor.

Obama comes from the educated class in the United States, a group that can always move up the social ladder if its individuals are intelligent enough. He has been a member of the elite since his adolescence. Yes, he has been the victim of racial discrimination. Yes, his parents divorced. But has he ever been gang raped? Has he ever been forced to choose between feeding his children and taking them to the doctor when they were sick? Has his country ever been invaded by the US military?

There will always be someone more victimized than any victim you can name. Barack Obama is far from the most wretched person on earth. Do not make him out to be something he is not. He is still the spoiled pampered child of United States affluence and arrogance that too many of us in this country are, sitting high on the hog while most of the rest of the people in the world live in poverty.

When asked "If you know where Osama Bin Laden is, would you order air strikes?" he will still say "Yes" without blinking, not giving a damn that the intelligence might be flawed and that there might be innocent women and children on the ground in the path of the US weapons. He is still a US imperialist at heart. So is Edwards, so is Clinton. Only Richardson (not my candidate) had the balls to say that he would not act like a cowboy American.

[Bicoastal]

4. Wretched? WRETCHED?!

Oh, HELL no. Don't start accusing me OR Obama of playing the victim card. That's a complete distortion.

I never claimed Obama had a horrible, traumatic life. I didn't have a horrible, traumatic life either. My parents are good people who probably qualify as upper middle class now, and even have helped me and my sister out when we need money. We're all educated--I'm the only one without at least a Masters, but give me a semester...We've taken vacations, even a few outside of the country. We own property. We're an upstanding family in every respect.

And yet, due to our ethnic background, as a little kid I knew that I never stood a chance to be President. I just looked at the people who HAD been elected, and knew that I was nothing like them for no fault of my own. UNELECTABLE.

If Obama gets elected, thousands of the next generation of American kids will think twice about this possibility. If it happens, it'll be historic.

[Hekate]

8. Christ on a Trailer Hitch. Have you actually read his autobiography?

His "wealthy" Kenyan father never sent child support that I heard of. The foreign students I went to University of Hawaii with may have had a lot of rupees or whatever back home, but that money didn't go far in Hawaii, or anywhere else in the US.

His Hawaii upbringing was on a very modest scale. I get the impression that the adults in his life loved that kid. Punahou is an elite school, to be sure, but three adults -- his mother, grandmother, and grandfather -- worked to send him there, and if their policies are anything like most private schools they have scholarship money available to help them diversify their enrollment. And young Barry was plenty diverse.

And for the love of god, since when is gang rape a necessary qualification for anything?

"Spoiled pampered child"? "Million dollar house"?

Sometimes the raw envy of SOME on this board reminds me of the crab-bucket story. A fisherman can fill an open bucket with as many crabs as he wants, because every time one of them gets toward the top all the rest of them will pull it back down.

Hekate

[Naturyl]

10. Why do you immediately characterize it as "envy?"

Is that your view of people who raise legitimate issues of class? They get an automatic "envious" label?

Sorry, but I find that nauseating. That kind of attitude belongs in the GOP.

[Hekate]

11. "Spoiled pampered child" and ____ about his "million dollar house" -- why?

Ooooooh. If we get an Edwards-Obama ticket, they'll BOTH have million dollar houses. How classist of them. They should live in slums to show their solidarity with "the people". 'Cause gods know they didn't EARN THEIR OWN MONEY or anything like that.

Hekate

[Naturyl]

14. Wow...

I've argued with a lot of Republicans in the last 10 years. And I really don't mean to be rude, but I've heard almost the exact same thing come out of their mouths when they are challenged on why they feel entitled to hoard their millions, drive their Hummers, build their McMansions, etc. "I earned it," etc. Makes me want to hurl, and it's based on several massive logical fallacies to boot - but that's another can of worms...

No, of course Edwards and Obama shouldn't live "in the slums." No one suggested that and why you bring it up is a mystery. Again, the Repukes always say the exact same thing - "I guess I ought to live in public housing to satisfy you."

That's not the point. The point is that bringing up issues of class is totally legitimate when candidates are claiming to represent a class they aren't members of. I'm not saying it can't be done, because it can. But there's every reason to be skeptical and make sure the candidate is really sincere.

[Naturyl]

9. You're right, but be careful...

"He is still the spoiled pampered child of United States affluence and arrogance that too many of us in this country are, sitting high on the hog while most of the rest of the people in the world live in poverty.
"

Poverty exists in America. Plenty of it. And don't think it's "not so bad" just because our poor have TV sets. Sure, it's not as as bad materially, but psychological studies have repeatedly shown that the demoralizing effect of relative poverty is just as pronounced as that of absolute poverty. In other words, it feels just as bad.

[FrenchieCat]

13. All of the Dem candidates except for Richardson answered the exact

same way that Barack did in reference to Actionable intelligence on Bin Laden. Some were just more long winded. Richardson talked about deposing the President instead.

And in fact, Barack just became a "barely" millionaire. That was due to his book sales.

[baby_mouse]

5. "Let's forget about policy for a second"...

This rather says it all.

[Big Blue Marble]

6. No, but we can.

We have struggled through these seven years devoid of hope, lost in a strange new world where the values that we as a nation grew up
with were stripped from us. We have helplessly and fearfully watched our very constitutional government easily undermined by a collection
of thugs. We cannot even trust our democratic election process itself. We citizens have been callously divided into two groups who are encouraged to tear each other apart while our beloved country and its wealth are stolen from us. All of this has left us feeling powerless and leaderless.

We are the ones who have been unsure of our own ability to make change happen. Obama is waking us up. He is reminding us of who we
really are. We can dare to dream America's greatness again. Will the process be messy and at times frustrating? Of course, but if we
do not wake up now, if we do not come together as a nation with a single purpose, when? If we wait much longer, we all know that
it may be too late. That is what Obama means when he says "the fierce urgency of now." No his critics are right. Obama won't change
anything. But we Americans can. And he will lead the way.

[Naturyl]

7. Yes, it would change some things for the better.

But we need a lot more change than Obama has promised to deliver. This nation is in a lot of trouble. We can't settle for just feeling good about ourselves. We need someone who has stated that they will really get in there, roll their sleeves up, and fight like hell against the forces that are dragging this country down. I haven't seen that kind of commitment from Obama. I've only seen it from Kucinich and Edwards.

[annie1]

12. Changes will be slow and typical. I prefer the idea of having someone...

well versed in policy with vast knowledge who knows exactly how to use what they have available to them. That's what makes me hopeful that things could change.

[Naturyl]

15. Sorry, Joe Biden dropped out

Oh, did you mean someone else?

[earth mom]

16. Obamas a corporatist. Just like Hillary. NO THANKS. nt