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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:02 PM
Original message
who is really to blame for where we are now?
Is if blame that goes across the board shared by the Dems who sat there for 12 years and continue to do so and the people in this country who sat back going on with their lifes as if all is well .

Is it just the people who for whatever reason went for the cheap products and allowed the unions to be taken apart and the box store to bloom up all across the country allowing cheap labor and the global economy to take hold and control our lifes and pay checks . We let the HMO's climb into our lifes because employers were sold on cheap insurance and then in turn sold us but we could have said no , if we had then the HMO's and the medical industry would have never gotten a foothold , we would have had no insurance but look at where we are now .

Were we unaware that computer technology may very well make it possible for many jobs to be out sourced .

I am trying to figure out where it all went wrong and to be honest I place the blame mostly on the people for being so easily sold on lies and so easily brain washed . I do put some blame on the Dems for either not doing their jobs and watching or for even being part of the same criminal government we now have . I know Reagan and his trickle down economics were the begining of de-regulation but I still feel some how if we acted early enough we could have turned this around before it grew into the monster it has become .
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gerald Ford for refusing to prosecute Nixon.
Worst mistake in the history of our nation.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That might be it but I just don't know
At the time it didn't seem so bad to me. Really. You'd have thought that I'd have been on fire about it, would have felt so betrayed by Viet Nam, but I wasn't. I was happy it was over

Do you want to know what was the really bad thing about coming home from Viet Name? It was that the place was not the same in any way and you had no way of knowing if it had changed or if you had. There was no frame of reference other than you had to hold dear to the notion that you had not done wrong. A trial of Nixon would have been horrible.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. The trial would not have been about the war.
Nixon didn't start the Viet Nam War. The trial would have been about the other fun things he did while you were risking your life in the jungle.

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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. And all the remaining Nixonites who survived in GOP administrations to this day?
Goes a bit deeper than Dick.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You're right, I should have included them.
But the trajectory of their lives might have been altered if they'd visited Dickie in prison.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. To me it's a Hydra--strike off a head and it will cheerfully grow another
So long as there is a quid-pro-quo that trades right-wing economic policy for favorable influence with media and power brokers, it's fairly irresistible to any ambitious pol. While it can be dynastic in terms of underlings there's never a shortage of figureheads. Or something.

:dunce:
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Have you ever heard...
American Idiots by Greenday?
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
4.  No .
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. Then you're missing something!
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avenger64 Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. John Lennon is to blame ...
... him and all those other 60's peaceniks and loveniks who sent us down the road to moral corruption.

Just kidding - the American people are to blame. As long as they were fat and happy, they were more than willing to buy all that stuff from the box stores, take on an economy built on debt, and indulge in escapism with ESPN and playbox, or x-station, or whatever they call it.

The System is The System. It's inherent pull is toward corruption, and the people who run the System will manipulate it toward their contributor's ends as long as they can get away with it.

WE let them get away with it.

Seriously kidding about Lennon - I loved that guy.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. The American People
for putting get-rich-quick schemes ahead of a solid education. For abdicating the responsibility of their lives and their welfare to their Government (as in "let someone else take care of it"). For allowing their Representatives to earn their vote with a simple handshake, a smile and an empty promise only to see them return to DC and do absolutely nothing they said they would ... and then let them do it all over again the next Election Year ... year after year after year.

For being arrogant enough to assume that since America was "#1" during the Post-War years, that we would always -- even if our work ethic wobbled and the quality of our products went down in an effort to make more money -- be "#1". And for being too distracted by a Celebrity Culture to realize that not only are we no longer #1, we're not even respected, admired or necessarily wanted at the Big Table.

Americans tend to blame someone else for their problems, but when decades go by and the dissolution and bastardization of what the Founding Fathers intended for this "American Experiment" happens before your very own collective eyes and nothing is done, at the end of the day the American People have no one but themselves to blame.
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Didereaux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. We have a WINNER! Stupid ? of the Day...... WE are responsible!
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9.  Only to be out done by the jerk of the day !
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 07:10 PM by blues90
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Katherine Harris & The Supremes









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NI4NI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10.  their latest hit
Baby, Baby, Where Did Our Country Go!
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. May be this will help start the dialog ...
Edited on Sun Dec-30-07 08:52 PM by flashl
How Many Times Can a Country Lose its Innocence?

We conceal from ourselves the truths we know we know.

Just how many times can a country lose its innocence?" -- Yale historian David Blight gave a riveting talk about how over the second half of the 19th century the Civil War became memorialized as a conflict between "two right sides " -- Union and Confederate-- and "reconciliation" came to mean focussing exclusively on the valor of the soldiers in both armies. Slavery? Black people? Neither fit the narrative of reuniting North and South. For that, the causes and purposes of the war had to be obscured, the past -- the real past -- forgotten. The slaveowner and the slave dropped out of the public story, the soldiers in blue and gray became the star players. In this way, the country could bind up its wounds and move on triumphantly without having to confront the reconstitution of white supremacy in the South, or Northern racism either.

You can see the same process of historical mythmaking at work on the War in Vietnam. The war as well-intentioned tragedy (liberal version) versus the war as sabotaged glory, the stab in the back (conservative). The history of militant GI resistance, told in the powerful documentary "Sir! No Sir!", has dropped out of public memory, replaced by feckless "draft dodgers" and the myth of the returning soldier spat upon in the airport by a hippie girl with flowers in her hair.

How will the War in Iraq be woven into the ongoing narrative of American goodness and progress? We brought them democracy, but they couldn't handle freedom? We could have pacified the country with just a bit more time but the peaceniks stabbed us in the back, just like in Vietnam? Maybe both--in fact, both are in circulation already. You can be sure that, as with Vietnam, no matter how many Abu Ghraibs and Hadithas come to light, they will be blamed on bad-apple soldiers and the fog of war, not higher ups or official policy.

Imagine that in 30 years the Smithsonian tries to put on an exhibit exploring the the Iraq war: the cooked evidence of WMD, the "embedding" of the media, our bewildering and shifting alliances with assorted Iraqi would-be strongmen, the destruction of Iraqi infrastructure, the violence against civilians, the displacement of millions of Iraqis to Syria and Jordan, and so on. Today , these are all things we know well. But will we still know them in 30 years? If history is any guide, they'll have been replaced by a soothing and hopeful popular narrative of patriotism , military valor and well-meaning blunders. In the furor over the planned exhibit, many rightwing politicians will raise tons of cash, the curator will lose her job, and in the end the more disturbing, 'controversial" displays will be replaced with pictures of Osama bin Laden, 9/11, soldiers building schools and soulful-eyed Iraqi children being brought to America for medical treatment.


America maintains its the land of the free, with liberty and justice for all, yet:

We have torture in our prisons, but we rather to be outraged about Abu Graib.

We want the invisible class to come out and vote on Presidential cycles but we will not talk about prisoners of census. It’s a practice where prisoners becomes the new cash crop in rural communites, as a bonus, federal dollars from their poor neighborhoods moves with them and the politicans district size increases.

We had a Welfare to work program, threw thousands of poor people off the welfare rolls onto the streets when there was high unemployment.

When it comes to the criminal justice system, anyone closely involved knows its skewed to act against minorities, but it never becomes a public discussion.

We have been underfunding minority neighborhoods, redlinining the neighborhoods, moving businesses from the neighborhoods, for years, but blame those communities for not succeeding.

We are de facto segregated but no one talks about it and pretends it makes no difference.

Brown vs Board of Education is gutted, but no one talks about it.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Al Gore
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. The GOP, and the success of their alliance with corporate power
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. If we had to buy our own medical insurance
the way we buy car and life - we would have had universal care by now and even though private insurance would still be in business, their CEOs would not be making millions.

Instead, we were happy with an insurance provided by our employers, never having to negotiate, mostly happy with our part of the premium - until we lost our jobs or until they started spiraling. In many cases we did not even see the bill from our health care providers.

And, human nature being what it is, we did not pay attention the increase in health care costs that far surpassed inflation.

If, however, we would have been presented with the medical bill and realized the ridiculous charges, we would have demanded change. And the path to universal health care would have been paved.

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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-30-07 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
18.  when I was fired , I found out the company I worked for payed nothing
for my dental , I got a cobra to extend it and it showed just what they contributed where I worked .

They can tell you anything but have to prove nothing . All you know is what is deducted from each check .

We had a great dental plan called Guardian for a while and I payed little co pay the they sent to GE and all i did was pay and pay . Each year they shopped around for a different provider .and as always forced you to pick from a book of names , the only one on there each time was the same primary care physician which was the only luck out at all .
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. taft - hartley
corporations
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. Fundies
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